TIM THOMAS DISSES WHITE HOUSE

Wanye
January 24 2012 01:38AM

When we first read on the Twitterz that Tim Thomas was skipping out on the traditional "Stanley Cup winners meet the President trip to the White House" we rolled our eyes and wondered what was going through the old boy's head. Now we aren't so sure what to think.

Thomas released a statement on the matter:

"I believe the Federal government has grown out of control, threatening the Rights, Liberties, and Property of the People.

This is being done at the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial level. This is in direct opposition to the Constitution and the Founding Fathers vision for the Federal government.

Because I believe this, today I exercised my right as a Free Citizen, and did not visit the White House. This was not about politics or party, as in my opinion both parties are responsible for the situation we are in as a country. This was about a choice I had to make as an INDIVIDUAL.

This is the only public statement I will be making on this topic.

-- TT"

Now if there is anyone less qualified to speak on matters of politics and protest it is your ol' pal Wanye. But we can set up a bit of a debate on this rare instance when American politics and the NHL collide.

THE ONE SIDE

One can argue that it is a tremendous honour to meet the President of the United States - regardless of your political affiliations or whatever axes you have to grind with the Government. Getting a tour of the White House, meeting the Commander in Chief and presenting him with the obligatory jersey is a once in a lifetime honour that most of us regular Joes couldn't even hope to get.

One could make a convincing case that skipping out on something like this is not only disrespectful to your team but to the United States as a whole. These folks would say that hockey players have no business making protests like this.

Regardless of what you feel you should go to the White House like a good 2011 Cup Champion and keep your mouth shut and smile for the cameras.

ON THE OTHER HAND

 

One could also choose to admire the stance that Thomas has taken. His statement on the matter is amazingly lucid - how many other professional athletes have "excercised their rights as a Free Citizen" in a public manner like this? It also shows a level of awareness and thought - this clearly isn't a simple matter of "I don't like Obama therefore I won't go to the White House."

It raises the visibility of a growing protest against the Government in the US and even made the headlines of our favourite consipiracy/economic blog Zero Hedge. There the support for Thomas in the comments section was very strong - until it devolved into Canucks hating (which was also quite entertaining):

Al Gorerhythm: Well done TT. I hope that it is not your last public statement on these matters though. We need folk in highly visible positions to spread the news. Kudos.

Arkadaba: As a Habs fan - well you know. Kudos to him for taking a stand. And he has a lot to lose like endorsements etc. (which he will). Should be NHL player of the year.

Because of Thomas' protest, this is now making international headlines - here is a take from the Sydney Morning Herald:

"Goaltender Thomas insisted his decision to snub the ceremony with US President Barack Obama, a Democrat, was not a partisan gesture in favour of the opposing Republican party, but a decision based on his belief that the US government has too much influence on American individuals’ lives."

SO WHAT'S YOUR TAKE?

How do you read this whole thing? Do professional athletes have any business making political statements like this? Or should they keep their opinions to themselves and stick to what they know? We would cheerfully ship them to meet the ghost of Kim Jong Il if it meant the Oilers would win the Cup.

But we are a simple minded non-partisan after all.

09049f03ecb006ab29372206f2a88f75
Blog so hard motherf**ckers try and find me. Email me at wanyegretz@gmail.com or tweet me @wanyegretz provided it is about Jordan Eberle or babes.
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#1 YFC Prez
January 24 2012, 02:13AM
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love it! I think all individuals should stand up for what they believe in. Tim Thomas is a Citizen fist hockey player second

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#2 Romulus' Apotheosis
January 24 2012, 11:27AM
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Wow politics on ON... what's next religion... how do you all come down on the Council of Nicea? (isn't there something about dinner parties and topics of conversations to avoid...)

anyway... I'll just share a few thoughts

1) the US constitution sets forth a radically different system of governance than Canada and other Constitutional Monarchies (or governments like France and Germany for that matter) that split the Head of State and the Head of Government responsibilities. In the US the President acts as both (although elements of the Head of Government role are shared by Congress).

It's pretty clear that events like these fall under the Head of State role. This role is largely a figure-head (in Can. the Governor General/Queen) and presides over banquets and gives awards, acknowledges achievement in arts, sport, military etc; and has the pride of the nation vested in the office.

One of the benefits of a Constitutional Monarchy, or a system like Germany, or Israel, is that one can honor one's country via the figure-head without engaging in questions of the politics of the day.

In the States, when an event like this is held the Government acts in this capacity... blurring the lines. TT is clearly unable to disentangle the various roles a President of the US is designed by the constitution to play, or refuses to acknowledge this distinction.

2) So far I haven't heard anyone suggest TT can not hold or express his political opinions. That is not the issue. The issue is whether he chose the appropriate venue and target for his protest. I would suggest he did not. The venue is off because it was clearly an apolitical ceremony and the target is off because the President was acting as Head of State.

The issue of a democratic marketplace of ideas is hardly hindered by respecting appropriate venues and targets for political expression.

3) It does not to me show great moral or political courage to protest an inappropriate target at an inappropriate venue. If Lucic (from BC) refused to attend because of the on-going soft-wood lumber trade disputes between Can-US (primarily a BC issue), that would be as absurd and dickish as this performance.

4) The question of "nonpartisanship" seems like a dodge. The issues of the expansion of executive power (in both CAN-US) and the expansion of deficit spending and the debt are hardly partisan issues viewed from cold, objective reality. What is partisan is WHEN people decide the deficit or executive power are serious problems and WHO is in power when these objections are raised.

5) I think it is both disrespectful to his team and his country to act in such a petulant manner. He should take to the streets and the polls to loudly and creatively express his political frustrations.

AND, he should stand with his teammates, look his Head of State in the eye, shake his hand and receive the pride and honor of his country (ie. it was not his government that was honoring him, it was his State).

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#3 Saytalk
January 24 2012, 04:16AM
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Call me old-fashioned, but I would consider it a civic duty to attend the event and show some respect to the democratically-elected leader of your country.

Call me old-fashioned, but I would also consider it Tim Thomas' job, as a well-paid marquee player of the Boston Bruins, to play a diplomatic role for his team and for the NHL, and attend a team function such as this one.

On that day, he failed as a US citizen and as an NHL professional. And I bet this is just sour grapes because he pays a lot in taxes on that big salary.

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#4 Archaeologuy
January 24 2012, 07:57AM
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He had the opportunity to be publicly honoured by the leader of his country and chose not to be included. He's an idiot, plain and simple.

He excluded himself from a team event and created a situation where he publicly embarrased his owner and quite possibly some of the fans that pay his freight. His teammates, his owner, and his fans now had to respond to this poor choice.

Of course he has the right not to do a single thing. I have the right to do all kinds of stupid things, it doesnt mean I should be applauded for exercizing my right to be an idiot.

The fact of the matter is that if he felt so strongly about his beliefs then he was cowardly not to appear at the White House. He should have come in person and let the most powerful man in the United States know exactly how he feels the country is better served.

Instead, he stayed at home and pretended he was a patriot.

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#5 The Towel Boy
January 24 2012, 08:22AM
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I would have left politics out of this and simply used this as an opportunity to go to the White House and eat a bunch of free food and drink UNLIMITED DR. PEPPERS!!!

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#6 Spaceman Spiff
January 24 2012, 09:45AM
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I do admire his courage, but it’s cancelled out by his selfishness and, quite frankly, his naivete.

It’s a selfish move to take a stand like that because it threw a wet blanket over the proceedings for the rest of his teammates, who will now have to endure questions about team chemistry for the rest of the season and playoffs (especially if the Bruins don’t win the Cup).

And it’s a naïve move, one in which his lack of knowledge about what politics is, betrays him. To wit: “This was not about politics or party, as in my opinion both parties are responsible for the situation we are in as a country.”

This is all about politics. You can’t boycott a visit to the White House, and claim that it’s because the “Federal government has grown out of control, threatening the Rights, Liberties, and Property of the People.” You can’t blame the “Executive, Legislative, and Judicial” levels and claim that “This is in direct opposition to the Constitution and the Founding Fathers vision for the Federal government” without it being a political statement in black and white. To make all of those claims and citations and attempt to assert that “it’s not about politics” suggests that he doesn’t really know what politics is. That’s scary because Tim Thomas went to college.

I also like the attempt at blaming both parties, but my guess is that he’s, at the very least, a Tea Party Republican or a libertarian. He doesn’t have to apologize for being either. And you’d have to be crazy to think that the majority of millionaire athletes, if they’re not completely a-political, aren’t at least “reflexively” conservative on a lot of points. There aren’t a lot of limousine-liberals in professional sports.

But I’m afraid it will colour people’s opinions of him going forward. I just hope that taking this stand is worth the trouble it’s going to cause with his teammates.

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#7 Archaeologuy
January 24 2012, 10:10AM
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@thebiggestmanintheworld

People are stupid. They have a right to be stupid, but it doesnt make them less stupid.

Believe what you want. It doesnt mean you're right. I could sing Koombaya, hold hands, and eat granola bars with everybody who thinks all ideas are created equal, but I wont. They arent all equal. You have every right to believe them and I wont argue that at all. But believing in fairies, dragons, and libertarian values is a right that the idiots inherited from smarter people.

Thomas wasnt asked to shake hands with Putin or Pierre Maguire. He was asked to shake hands with the President of his own country. It's his right not to go. It's my right to call him an idiot.

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#8 Ryan
January 24 2012, 05:51AM
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Saytalk wrote:

Call me old-fashioned, but I would consider it a civic duty to attend the event and show some respect to the democratically-elected leader of your country.

Call me old-fashioned, but I would also consider it Tim Thomas' job, as a well-paid marquee player of the Boston Bruins, to play a diplomatic role for his team and for the NHL, and attend a team function such as this one.

On that day, he failed as a US citizen and as an NHL professional. And I bet this is just sour grapes because he pays a lot in taxes on that big salary.

You'd probably also call it a civic duty to serve for your country in unnecessary wars like Vietnam or attacking Iraq just to spread American propaganda.

Kudos to you, puppet.

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#9 Quinn the Eskimo
January 24 2012, 06:39AM
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Why is government too big when they try to get health care to poor people, but too small when they spend $600+ billion on defense spending, nearly more than the rest of the world combined? I'll buy Timmy's political convictions when he plays goal in a tri-corn hat. Hockey players and movie stars should stick to what they know. He's a Glenn Beck fan, fer X's sake. Fox 'news'. Yeeks.

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#10 vetinari
January 24 2012, 11:01AM
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Thomas should appreciate that he lives in a country where you can publicly state your opposition to the machinery of government and yet live to tell the tale!

People are dying all over the world to enjoy the freedoms and liberties that Thomas presently enjoys (availability of college and education, free market system that rewards him with an annual salary that is greater than the average workers lifetime of wages, etc.) yet he is silent about that.

It is further intersting that he doesn't articulate how his freedoms are presently affected or what the "founding fathers" vision was.

Thomas is entitled to his views and to not engage the Preseidnet of the United States, however, by making a broad decalartion in the manner in which he did, I think he has to be prepared to elaborate and explain what the heck he was actually protesting.

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#11 Devolution
January 24 2012, 02:54AM
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I suspect that when Tim Thomas is retired many years from now and the economy is sorted and the country didn't melt down he will think, "Damn, would have been kind of nice to meet the President".

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#12 Oilcruzer
January 24 2012, 07:01AM
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Meh. I admire the detest for the US politics that is creating gridlock and the distaste to a system of pampering from bribes lobbying, but that could have and should have been another time, another place.

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#13 j
January 24 2012, 08:38AM
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The irony is that Tim has benefited nicely from goverment over the years. Played Collegiate hockey (government suppport of acedemic sport), played for Team USA (Hockey USA has tremendous support), and now plays in a huge American market that, presumably, has some benefits from certain levels of government. I, like most of us, have some considerable issues with 'big' government and would like to see changes made. However, we (in N America) have it pretty good and should take a step back from time to time to reflect.

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#14 Dodd
January 24 2012, 08:39AM
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The real scandal: Dave Hodge of TSN tweeted the "coincidence" that Thomas' children (three of them) names all start with K (KKK). THIS is irresponsible and should not go by un-noticed.

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#15 Sheldon Oilers Fan for Life!!!
January 24 2012, 08:46AM
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Saytalk wrote:

Call me old-fashioned, but I would consider it a civic duty to attend the event and show some respect to the democratically-elected leader of your country.

Call me old-fashioned, but I would also consider it Tim Thomas' job, as a well-paid marquee player of the Boston Bruins, to play a diplomatic role for his team and for the NHL, and attend a team function such as this one.

On that day, he failed as a US citizen and as an NHL professional. And I bet this is just sour grapes because he pays a lot in taxes on that big salary.

First realize I am a US citizen and proud of it!I am also a Canadian Citizen and proud of it.

Call me old fashioned, but I consider it a civic duty to show respect of Democracy by sometimes questioning the wisdom of government.

Call me old fashioned but I consider it a virtue to risk personal income for the good of the Nation. On that day if he had gone to the white house because he was afraid that not going would of cost him endorsements he would of been not only a coward but a traitor. To say it is sour grapes because of high taxes on that big salary is a thinly veiled attempt to justify your position when no one knows TT real thoughts but I would suspect based on what he wrote that taxes were not the issue. I suspect Tim is worried about the fact that our Government can spy on us with no reason or justification. That soon the government if they decide to declare you a terrorist for what ever reason they choose can render you to a military prison and you have no right to a trial, a lawyer, a phone call or any thing that the constitution used to protect us from. I think paying high taxes is the least of his worries!

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#16 Quinn the Eskimo
January 24 2012, 09:37AM
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m3sh wrote:

Well at least wanye has made it easier to identify the bleeding heart sheeple. There is nothing wrong with standing by one's convictions.

Cue obligatory straw men arguments, claims of racism, etc, that the left has such a cozy relationship with.

Good on ya TT.

Why are you interested in identifying people for their political views? Are you keeping lists? Got plans for the rapture?

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#17 Zamboni Driver
January 24 2012, 10:04AM
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Also

He's a frickin' HOCKEY GOALIE

Who really gives a hell what he thinks or does?

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#18 Beavis
January 24 2012, 11:07AM
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Thomas has a right to express his views. He's a Tea Party supporter and the message he put on his facebook page is consistent with the Tea Party message. To say it's not political is ridiculous--and it's certainly not a stretch to think that Thomas would vote Republican over Democrat in an election--but there's certainly no crime, nor even anything particularly scandalous, about him expressing views that are fairly common among many American citizens.

The issue here is more that he's letting his own personal convictions get in the way of something that's supposed to be ceremonial, rather than political. Rather than his team being the story, he becomes the story, and by becoming the story he makes it political. It was the wrong time and the wrong place to make this kind of stand.

But that's on Thomas the person. As for Thomas the goalie, he's still one of the best in the NHL and I'd certainly be happy to have him on my team.

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#19 Romulus' Apotheosis
January 24 2012, 11:52AM
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Dodd wrote:

The real scandal: Dave Hodge of TSN tweeted the "coincidence" that Thomas' children (three of them) names all start with K (KKK). THIS is irresponsible and should not go by un-noticed.

This is way worse than what TT did. Hodge should be tarred and feathered (like the original tea partiers did... only metaphorically this time) for that... super disturbing.

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#20 mikey
January 24 2012, 12:14PM
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Dear Tim:

Get over yourself

Signed, Everyone.

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#21 Rondo
January 24 2012, 12:35PM
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Tim Thomas does not have to respect the Office of the Presidency.

After what Bill Clinton did in the Oval office (BJ)

The Office Of The Presidency needs to respect us more.

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#22 Milhouse Van Ched
January 24 2012, 12:59PM
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Rondo wrote:

Tim Thomas does not have to respect the Office of the Presidency.

After what Bill Clinton did in the Oval office (BJ)

The Office Of The Presidency needs to respect us more.

Bush Jr. did far worse in that office then Clinton did!

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#23 traveling howdy
January 24 2012, 03:47PM
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It's funny that he thinks there is something wrong with American society. How about the fact that a hockey player can make in one year what it would take the average American citizen150 years to make

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#24 Simple Simon
January 24 2012, 10:49PM
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It is easy to point the finger at someone who stands up for what they believe in. It’s also easy to buckle under any time the going gets tough or when someone is going to judge you for your beliefs. I applaud Thomas for not sacrificing his integrity as a man by saying one thing but doing another. As for his team mates I think they should applaud him as well. It is that type of man that you want to go in to battle with.    Tim Thomas did not use his status or this opportunity as a soap box. He made a clear and concise statement to explain his actions and left it at that. Whether you agree with his beliefs or not, you can not question his character.  

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#25 Vince
January 24 2012, 02:14AM
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Not surprised a Glenn Beck fan wouldn't pass up an opportunity to disrespect Obama. But the real tragedy is anyone buying in so readily to the nonsense masquerading as "conservatism" south of the border.

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#26 Ryan
January 24 2012, 05:46AM
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What I don't understand is people saying hockey players have no place in politics. That's quite the close minded moronic statement. As a person who lives in a democracy, we all have the right to involve ourselves in politics. A government is nothing but an organization that represents the people.

When the hell did USA, and Canada for that matter, become "people are for the government" - which is exactly what it is anymore.

If Tim Thomas believes that the government now has too much power and control over their people, which I agree with, and he says these things - we'd all be calling him a hypocrite for schmoozing with these people. Get a grip people. He stood up for what he believes in. Not everyone is dumb down by all the propaganda and lies we are fed on a daily basis by the people who have enslaved us.

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#27 Ryan
January 24 2012, 06:57AM
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What's YOUR opinion Wanye? You did a good job tippy toeing on the subject but don't share what you think. That's the beauty with a blog vs a mainstream news article. Share your thoughts man.

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#28 Time Travelling Sean
January 24 2012, 07:11AM
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@Oilcruzer

Would we be talking about it if it was at another time? or place?

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#29 Archaeologuy
January 24 2012, 08:44AM
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@Dodd

Honestly, I thought it was funny. Though I would be all kinds of pissed if I was Thomas.

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#30 Archaeologuy
January 24 2012, 08:53AM
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@Sheldon Oilers Fan for Life!!!

I dont know how worried he is about those things considering those processes were instituted and applied largely by a right wing government that he seemingly supported through donation.

Something tells me that if a wealthy public figure with no criminal history is genuinely worried about being thrown into a secret CIA prison in Beirut then he probably shouldnt be within 50 feet of the President afterall.

Crisis averted

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#31 Sheldon "Oilers Fan for Life!!!"
January 24 2012, 09:07AM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

He had the opportunity to be publicly honoured by the leader of his country and chose not to be included. He's an idiot, plain and simple.

He excluded himself from a team event and created a situation where he publicly embarrased his owner and quite possibly some of the fans that pay his freight. His teammates, his owner, and his fans now had to respond to this poor choice.

Of course he has the right not to do a single thing. I have the right to do all kinds of stupid things, it doesnt mean I should be applauded for exercizing my right to be an idiot.

The fact of the matter is that if he felt so strongly about his beliefs then he was cowardly not to appear at the White House. He should have come in person and let the most powerful man in the United States know exactly how he feels the country is better served.

Instead, he stayed at home and pretended he was a patriot.

Both would embarrass the team etc and both can be patriotic. If he is right and we find our selves with a government similar to Germany in 1939 than we will all wonder why we did not do more. If he is wrong no one will really care in a week or ten years. both carry great risk to Tim Thomas. One carries great risk for us all.

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#32 upperdeckdrunk
January 24 2012, 09:33AM
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Does anyone remember when Owen Nolan wouldn't leave the dressing room in Toronto because the Queen was dropping the puck? If you don't know Nolan was born in Belfast and raised in Canada. That's a nice silent protest. No need to have a statement on your Facebook page (who does that anyways), Nolan was subtle about it.

Im all for a good protest being the union organizer i am. I just think there is nothing political about a lunch at the White House to celebrate the team, management and city of Boston.

Did Dave Hodge really tweet that? Wow!

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#33 Joel S
January 24 2012, 09:33AM
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Can you imagine if it were Bush in the White house and some left wing player refused to go. Main stream media would be calling this person a star.

Everything can be made political. This was a photo op for Obama , taking pictures with winners.

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#34 thebiggestmanintheworld
January 24 2012, 09:53AM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

He had the opportunity to be publicly honoured by the leader of his country and chose not to be included. He's an idiot, plain and simple.

He excluded himself from a team event and created a situation where he publicly embarrased his owner and quite possibly some of the fans that pay his freight. His teammates, his owner, and his fans now had to respond to this poor choice.

Of course he has the right not to do a single thing. I have the right to do all kinds of stupid things, it doesnt mean I should be applauded for exercizing my right to be an idiot.

The fact of the matter is that if he felt so strongly about his beliefs then he was cowardly not to appear at the White House. He should have come in person and let the most powerful man in the United States know exactly how he feels the country is better served.

Instead, he stayed at home and pretended he was a patriot.

He is an idiot?

Weak Arch. I expect better. You could have said the same thing in a better way, but to come out and call someone an idiot for doing something he has every right to do is pretty ignorant, IMO.

Last I checked, the USA is a democracy.

If Thomas doesn't think meeting the president is an honour he would like to receive, who are we to call him names?

Myself, I wouldn't be overwhelmed if had the opportunity to meet with harper or whoever's the PM.

And by everyone saying he had an obligation to his team? His team has an obligation to support their teammates too. Goes both ways.

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#35 Zamboni Driver
January 24 2012, 09:58AM
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Let's see....

Tim Thomas salary = $5 million/year.

Someone in that House painted White wants to rescind George W.'s tax cut to the wealthiest Americans (because Tim Thomas, as a hockey goalie creates enormous trickle-down income and many many jobs, so it make sense).

Yeah.

It wasn't political.

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#36 Dipstick
January 24 2012, 10:01AM
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I get seriously pissed off when celebrities espouse political views contrary to mine, so I have to be fair and disagree with Thomas' stand even though I share his views.

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#37 Quicksilver ballet
January 24 2012, 10:38AM
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Like any Canadian, i support all of the views expressed here in regards to Tim Thomas.

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#39 Quinn the Eskimo
January 24 2012, 11:38AM
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@Romulus' Apotheosis

3 props.

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#40 Romulus' Apotheosis
January 24 2012, 11:48AM
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Sheldon "Oilers Fan for Life!!!" wrote:

Both would embarrass the team etc and both can be patriotic. If he is right and we find our selves with a government similar to Germany in 1939 than we will all wonder why we did not do more. If he is wrong no one will really care in a week or ten years. both carry great risk to Tim Thomas. One carries great risk for us all.

First, any reference to Germany of the Weimar period through the War as an analogy to just about anything has to, by definition, be looked at with extreme skepticism.

Second, I'm guessing - by your other comment:

It may well be true that Tim thinks that Obama and the Dems are the problem but If it is true that we are becoming Germany in 1939 the only difference will be one party wanting a theocracy and the other wanting communism.

that you are ham-fistedly referring to the elections of 1932-3... ie. when the social democrats, nazis and communists stood for election ultimately leading to Hitler's rise to power. None of those parties were theocratic.

And if you mean the republicans and democrats in contemporary US are theocratic and communist respectively... oh boy... i encourage you to read more. A lot more!

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#41 Gus
January 24 2012, 11:51AM
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I just think he could have handled it better. Of course it is anyone and everyone's right to say and do what the feel is right but there are a few things I would have thought twice about if I was in that situation. First of all, it is a ceremonial procedure where the President congratulates the team on their success. It has nothing to do with politics and thus it should be left asisde (which it wasn't no matter what TT states). Secondly, when a prominent figure, in this case TT, refuses to even see the President it fuels all which is bad in today's political environment. We can have different views but it is key that we are able to understand that political views in the US are not personal. Democrats and Republicans should be able to talk to each other and sometimes even be friends. The differences are in policy and should be kept at that.

It's just disturbing when a prominent figure like TT not only refuses to attend a cerimonial event at the White House but also feels the need to go out and justify it in the way he did.

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#42 Romulus' Apotheosis
January 24 2012, 12:01PM
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Red wrote:

I think this a bold and commendable move by Tim Thomas. I say hats off to you man, we need more big name celebs to step up and speak their minds. Not that their words have more value then yours mine but because it helps draw attention to the issue. The fact that most people are unaware of the issue is stunning to me. most people only believe what they see on mainstream media and this couldn't be further from reality. People need to be aware of what is happening, we are losing more and more rights by the day in North America, Canada is not exempt from any of this. Harper is quietly aping all of these policies and trying to push them through here. Watch the Thrive movie for the big picture.

www.thrivemovement.com

Look... when you post a link that prominently touts that it has an interview with David Icke... yes this David Icke:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Icke

I'm not inclined to pay much attention to you.

I would - as a side note - encourage you to reflect a bit more on the "draw attention to the issue" = good thing equation. That all depends on what the "issue" is. Jenny McCarthy convincing people to stop taking vaccines and the return among some US populations of whooping cough and other communicable diseases is hardly a good thing.

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#43 Quinn the Eskimo
January 24 2012, 12:10PM
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@Romulus' Apotheosis

Also, Godwin's Law. Sheldon loses automatically.

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#44 Douche Nietzsche
January 24 2012, 01:13PM
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vetinari wrote:

Thomas should appreciate that he lives in a country where you can publicly state your opposition to the machinery of government and yet live to tell the tale!

People are dying all over the world to enjoy the freedoms and liberties that Thomas presently enjoys (availability of college and education, free market system that rewards him with an annual salary that is greater than the average workers lifetime of wages, etc.) yet he is silent about that.

It is further intersting that he doesn't articulate how his freedoms are presently affected or what the "founding fathers" vision was.

Thomas is entitled to his views and to not engage the Preseidnet of the United States, however, by making a broad decalartion in the manner in which he did, I think he has to be prepared to elaborate and explain what the heck he was actually protesting.

What planet do you live on?

Americas kids are dying around the world while their freedoms are being being stolen from them in their home country. Heard of the patroit act? Awareness and knowledge are not two of the same.

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#45 Time Travelling Sean
January 24 2012, 01:18PM
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Oh I remember reading something and this guy said something like this "Our kids go halfway across the world to fight for democracy and we can't cross the street to vote"

And there was another remark "An assassination of a leader isn't going to kill democracy, instead a chronic apathy shall be the end of democracy"

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#46 Archaeologuy
January 24 2012, 01:48PM
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@Douche Nietzsche

Please. Whining at home while eating Cheetos is no less cowardly than getting your mom to sign a note excusing you from Track & Field day in the 9th grade.

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#47 Romulus' Apotheosis
January 24 2012, 01:54PM
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Dipstick wrote:

Sorry, I missed the Nazi reference. I did not think that Hodge's KKK inference qualified.

Hodge's KKK reference qualified for a lot of things but not for a Godwin's Law reference. That was reserved for Comment

#24:

Both would embarrass the team etc and both can be patriotic. If he is right and we find our selves with a government similar to Germany in 1939 than we will all wonder why we did not do more. If he is wrong no one will really care in a week or ten years. both carry great risk to Tim Thomas. One carries great risk for us all.

and comment #25:

It may well be true that Tim thinks that Obama and the Dems are the problem but If it is true that we are becoming Germany in 1939 the only difference will be one party wanting a theocracy and the other wanting communism.

For the record, I found these comments more confusing than offensive or anything and I said as much above in comment #54.

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#48 Quinn the Eskimo
January 24 2012, 05:05PM
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I heard this comparison today on Team 1040 radio: What Timmy did is analogous to not showing up at your sister's wedding because you don't like what the Catholic church gets up to. It's not about you, it's about your sister and the family. If you don't show up you look like a d*ck.

If you run Thomas' facebook comment through the Gingrich-Beck DogWhistle Translator 2000 (tm), 'The government is too big and threatens life and property' turns out as 'the government is too black and I don't want to pay any taxes.'

I bet the Bruin's room is a bit quieter today.

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#49 mayorpoop
January 24 2012, 06:59AM
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Ryan wrote:

What I don't understand is people saying hockey players have no place in politics. That's quite the close minded moronic statement. As a person who lives in a democracy, we all have the right to involve ourselves in politics. A government is nothing but an organization that represents the people.

When the hell did USA, and Canada for that matter, become "people are for the government" - which is exactly what it is anymore.

If Tim Thomas believes that the government now has too much power and control over their people, which I agree with, and he says these things - we'd all be calling him a hypocrite for schmoozing with these people. Get a grip people. He stood up for what he believes in. Not everyone is dumb down by all the propaganda and lies we are fed on a daily basis by the people who have enslaved us.

you have a valid and well put point.

to me this was a team event and thusly he should have attented. politics aside.

one can make effective change and challenge to government in many ways, including in protest. be wary of the protest goals and focus them accordingly. it was a photo op with the President of the USA not a declaration signing giving the great new powers to government. photo op.

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#50 Oilcruzer
January 24 2012, 08:17AM
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Time Travelling Sean wrote:

Would we be talking about it if it was at another time? or place?

You have me confused with Kreskin.

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