HALL SEES SPECIALIST

Jason Gregor
December 05 2012 11:22AM

In case you forgot what NHL hockey looked like, or the potential of Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, that was the highlights of his five-assist game v. the Chicago Blackhawks. Some Taylor Hall kid wasn't bad either that game potting a hat-trick in the 9-2 drubbing of the Hawks.

Both Hall and Nugent-Hopkins were having a check up this week, but before you freak out keep in mind that the Oilers wanted to use the break in the OKC Barons' schedule to let their doctors look at both of them.

Nugent-Hopkins has felt the odd tinge of pain periodically, but I've been told it is nothing serious. Shoulders can be very finicky, and the Oilers and Nugent-Hopkins wants to find out what is causing the discomfort. The shoulder is not a true joint; the head of the humerus basically floats against the scapula as opposed to a true ball and socket like the hip. The shoulder is naturally unstable, so separations, dislocations and rotator cuff damage are common.

With Nugent-Hopkins they need to ensure that there is no tear in the rotator cuff. There is a big difference between nervous pain and muscular pain. If it is a nerve issue, he could have nothing structurally wrong with his shoulder. No team is forthcoming with the extent of any injury, but the shoulder has so many possible injuries that it is impossible to know for sure if his pain is related to a previous injury.

With Hall he has felt really strong, but the doctors wanted to do an in-depth follow up, to ensure everything is still good.

I've been told from a few sources that this is just precautionary, almost more preventative than anything. Most players have follow up appointments every few months after a surgery, even when they are back playing. The specialist, and the Oilers, want to ensure that everything has healed properly.

Nugent-Hopkins' shoulder needs to get stronger according to his agent, and I've been told twice that this is mainly precautionary, but I'm a bit more skeptical regarding Nugent-Hopkins than Hall. A shoulder can have no structural damage, but a player can still feel some discomfort due to lack of strength.

Even if Nugent-Hopkins' shoulder was feeling fine, I didn't see the point in him going to the World Juniors, but if his shoulder needs a few weeks of rehab to get stronger, then I'd keep him in Edmonton and not have him playing in OKC or Russia. If the lockout ends, then this won't be an issue and he'll just stay in Edmonton anyways, but if it doesn't I'd still lean towards rest and rehab.

It also raises the question that if he was playing with pain, why was he playing? It is impossible to find out how much pain he has been in, and I was told it wasn't regular, but it does make you wonder why he wasn't resting prior to this break in the schedule.

HALL

When I spoke to Hall a few weeks ago, he said he felt fine. Back in October he admitted that the lockout helped him because he didn't have to rush back. He was able to spend some extra time building up all the muscles. He did extensive strength training on his back muscles to help build a strong base around his shoulder.

Hall is taking advantage of the break in OKC's schedule. Unlike Nugent-Hopkins, Hall hasn't been complaining about any pain or discomfort leading up to this appointment, and it sounds like it is just a smart follow up appointment.

If you are wondering why Hall had to miss practices in OKC, it is because he went to see a specialist in the States. While NHL players get a lot of perks they, like us, have to go to the doctor. He doesn't come to you.

Hall will play in OKC this weekend, barring an end to the lockout.

I've always felt that players rush back from injuries, and many play through pain that leads to a more serious injury down the road. I understand their desire to compete, and I understand that teams want players back on the ice, but I'd always give them an extra week or two just to be safe.

The Oilers can ill-afford to risk a long-term injury with their potential franchise players, and you hope you hope that these appointments were mostly precautionary. I'd be a bit more concerned about Nugent-Hopkins, only because he was playing with some discomfort.

In the case of Hall I'm wondering if the Oilers are being more proactive and ensuring their players are healing properly and that these follow up appointments will become more frequent in the future.

The Oilers' recent history regarding injuries hasn't been great, and while no one has told me this directly, I sense they've decided to change their protocol in how they deal with injuries; both during the injury as well as after surgery.

I sense a more proactive and cautious approach. I think it will help them long-term.

DAY THREE

Yesterday we raised $2,150 for Santas Anonymous. A huge thank you to Ed and his generous bid. I hope you enjoy your wine and golf package.

TODAY'S Package  in our MONTH OF GIVING is the  Edmonton Eskimo package.

It includes:

  • Signed JC Sherritt Game ball
  • SIgned Fred Stamps Jersey
  • Signed JC Sherritt print
  • A pair of Edmonton Eskimo season tickets.

Bidding goes from 2 p.m. to 6 p.m. You can call 1.800.243.1945 or 780.426.8326 to bid.

RECENTLY BY JASON GREGOR

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One of Canada's most versatile sports personalities. Jason hosts The Jason Gregor Show, weekdays from 2 to 6 p.m., on TSN 1260, and he writes a column every Monday in the Edmonton Journal. You can follow him on Twitter at twitter.com/JasonGregor
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#1 Minister D-
December 05 2012, 11:38AM
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Oh, that Chicago clip is like a cold beer on a hot Christmas morning.

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I like joints.

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#4 DSF
December 05 2012, 04:59PM
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Wäx Män Riley wrote:

Well, as long as we are nitpicking...

Kudo's to you for landing a shoulder expert- all Im saying if your going to comment on nature of injuries, talk about rehab and specific prognosis than you should be an expert in the area.

I'm. You're. Then.

Grammar. 33 years experience.

Actually...other than the all too common use of than instead of then, two of those errors were spelling, not grammar.

The Church Lady

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#5 The Soup Fascist
December 05 2012, 12:22PM
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Guy wrote:

If the media is going to write about injuries can they please stick to opinion rather than putting forth completely false statements about the shoulder and shoulder injuries. Yes the shoulder is complex- and yes there are many injuries that can cause shoulder pain- and discerning what is the pain generator can be difficult-and requires many years training, an MD and an FRCSC. Please, please stop commenting on the nature and expected outfcomes of injuries using incorrect anatomical and clinical info

The shoulder is a true joint surrounded by synovium like all other joints in the body- it is not floating up against the scapula, comments on nerve vs muscle pain etc. Shoulder dislocations and separations (don't even involve the same joint!)

I enjoy reading the latest injury updates but to then go and speculate and comment- on rehab, MRI results and future outcomes without proper medical info is a waste of time. Stick to the stuff you know- if people really want this stuff- why not get a medical professional to write a weekly update on common sports injuries- not a physio, not a trainer- a physiatrist or orthopod who knows there sh#t

Any concerns with my use of leeches, eye of newt and candling in dealing with my various ailments?

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#6 Big Cap
December 05 2012, 01:22PM
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@ Guy - Leave this site and NEVER come back. Thank you.

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#7 Walter Sobchak
December 05 2012, 02:27PM
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Guy wrote:

Listne- I am not trying to be negative- love the aritcles, love the show- all Im saying is as an expert if frustrating listen to media comment and speculate with false info, as well as propagating improper info about joints/ and injuries that occur to the joints.

The shoulder is a synovial joint, a true joint same as the hip and elbow. True- the hip has a socket that covers the femoral head (about 270 degrees) and therefore in inherently stable. The shoulder is a ball and sockey joint as well involving the humeral head (very large) and a much smaller glenoid. It is this nature that allows the arm such a large degree of freedom of motion. A separation involves the Acromio-clavicular joint- there are 5 types- and it does not include the true gleno-humeral joint.

Kudo's to you for landing a shoulder expert- all Im saying if your going to comment on nature of injuries, talk about rehab and specific prognosis than you should be an expert in the area. I have 17 years of training and the shoulder still confuses me.

I can see your point, but we still think you're full of $h+t.

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#8 hunkybill
December 05 2012, 03:32PM
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I am going to smoke a big FATTY. (No I'm not going to hit someone with my truck). From the Kootenays...

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#9 Wäx Män Riley
December 05 2012, 04:20PM
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Guy wrote:

Listne- I am not trying to be negative- love the aritcles, love the show- all Im saying is as an expert if frustrating listen to media comment and speculate with false info, as well as propagating improper info about joints/ and injuries that occur to the joints.

The shoulder is a synovial joint, a true joint same as the hip and elbow. True- the hip has a socket that covers the femoral head (about 270 degrees) and therefore in inherently stable. The shoulder is a ball and sockey joint as well involving the humeral head (very large) and a much smaller glenoid. It is this nature that allows the arm such a large degree of freedom of motion. A separation involves the Acromio-clavicular joint- there are 5 types- and it does not include the true gleno-humeral joint.

Kudo's to you for landing a shoulder expert- all Im saying if your going to comment on nature of injuries, talk about rehab and specific prognosis than you should be an expert in the area. I have 17 years of training and the shoulder still confuses me.

Well, as long as we are nitpicking...

Kudo's to you for landing a shoulder expert- all Im saying if your going to comment on nature of injuries, talk about rehab and specific prognosis than you should be an expert in the area.

I'm. You're. Then.

Grammar. 33 years experience.

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#10 Dipstick
December 05 2012, 11:27AM
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We fans are getting very touchy about shoulder injuries. I'm suggesting that all players wear tin foil liners in their helmets to ward off any further curses.

Just doing my part to help.

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#11 RDS
December 05 2012, 11:37AM
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As an aside, Jordan Eberle is getting his jersey retired in Regina tonight. Haven't seen any mention if it here, just thought I'd let everyone know. Congrats Jordan! Well deserved.

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#12 Guy
December 05 2012, 12:14PM
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If the media is going to write about injuries can they please stick to opinion rather than putting forth completely false statements about the shoulder and shoulder injuries. Yes the shoulder is complex- and yes there are many injuries that can cause shoulder pain- and discerning what is the pain generator can be difficult-and requires many years training, an MD and an FRCSC. Please, please stop commenting on the nature and expected outfcomes of injuries using incorrect anatomical and clinical info

The shoulder is a true joint surrounded by synovium like all other joints in the body- it is not floating up against the scapula, comments on nerve vs muscle pain etc. Shoulder dislocations and separations (don't even involve the same joint!)

I enjoy reading the latest injury updates but to then go and speculate and comment- on rehab, MRI results and future outcomes without proper medical info is a waste of time. Stick to the stuff you know- if people really want this stuff- why not get a medical professional to write a weekly update on common sports injuries- not a physio, not a trainer- a physiatrist or orthopod who knows there sh#t

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#13 Rob...
December 05 2012, 12:20PM
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Talk about Oiler's shoulders scares me. Why not talk about elbows instead; Yakupov is shown as having been kicked out of today's game due to using one in an inappropriate way. I can't wait for video highlights.

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#14 Wäx Män Riley
December 05 2012, 12:31PM
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Guy wrote:

If the media is going to write about injuries can they please stick to opinion rather than putting forth completely false statements about the shoulder and shoulder injuries. Yes the shoulder is complex- and yes there are many injuries that can cause shoulder pain- and discerning what is the pain generator can be difficult-and requires many years training, an MD and an FRCSC. Please, please stop commenting on the nature and expected outfcomes of injuries using incorrect anatomical and clinical info

The shoulder is a true joint surrounded by synovium like all other joints in the body- it is not floating up against the scapula, comments on nerve vs muscle pain etc. Shoulder dislocations and separations (don't even involve the same joint!)

I enjoy reading the latest injury updates but to then go and speculate and comment- on rehab, MRI results and future outcomes without proper medical info is a waste of time. Stick to the stuff you know- if people really want this stuff- why not get a medical professional to write a weekly update on common sports injuries- not a physio, not a trainer- a physiatrist or orthopod who knows there sh#t

Sounds like somebody just got out if physio therapy school…

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#15 Reg Dunlop
December 05 2012, 12:34PM
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Hey Dr. Guy. What are your office hours? Do you do worker's comp claims? I am no doctor but I prescribe you some chill-pills.

On an unrelated topic, did anyone notice Dustin Penner on late night TV? He looks like he would bleed gravy if he cut himself shaving.

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#16 GVBlackhawk
December 05 2012, 01:17PM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

Guy...How is this speculation...

The shoulder is not a true joint; the head of the humerus basically floats against the scapula as opposed to a true ball and socket like the hip. The shoulder is naturally unstable, so separations, dislocations and rotator cuff damage are common.

Is the shoulder not a true joint like the hip? Pretty sure it is. It isn't a ball and socket like the hip. That is a fact. Look it up.

How does saying that separations, dislocations and rotator cuff damage is common come across as speculative? It is a fact. Many people suffer those injuries because the shoulder isn't naturally that stable, even before an injury occurs. I didn't say RNH has one of those. Far from it. Read the context.

And if you want...tune into my show today at 2:40 and you will hear from a guy who deals in shoulders. I will make sure to ask him exactly what I wrote about the shoulder. We'll see who is wrong.

Gregor. Essentially you are correct. You did not use specific anatomic details in your article but that should not be cause for criticism. Most people who read this site do not want those details.

The shoulder is a complex 'joint'. This term is uses to describe any appendage that attaches to an opposing anatomical 'base'. But there are many 'joints' that vary in their anatomy. The shoulder is not the same as the elbow which is not the same as the temporomandibular joint. Multiple paths of motion dictate a greater degree of anatomical complexity.

Don't feel bad. Guy is being very pedantic in this case.

Guy needs only to look at the emperical evidence available. RNH injured his shoulder last year and is still having discomfort. There could be many causes for this. Hockey players are prone to shoulder injuries due to the nature of the contact -- compression with that much force does a lot of damage.

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#17 Guy
December 05 2012, 01:31PM
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@Jason Gregor

Listne- I am not trying to be negative- love the aritcles, love the show- all Im saying is as an expert if frustrating listen to media comment and speculate with false info, as well as propagating improper info about joints/ and injuries that occur to the joints.

The shoulder is a synovial joint, a true joint same as the hip and elbow. True- the hip has a socket that covers the femoral head (about 270 degrees) and therefore in inherently stable. The shoulder is a ball and sockey joint as well involving the humeral head (very large) and a much smaller glenoid. It is this nature that allows the arm such a large degree of freedom of motion. A separation involves the Acromio-clavicular joint- there are 5 types- and it does not include the true gleno-humeral joint.

Kudo's to you for landing a shoulder expert- all Im saying if your going to comment on nature of injuries, talk about rehab and specific prognosis than you should be an expert in the area. I have 17 years of training and the shoulder still confuses me.

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#19 Wäx Män Riley
December 05 2012, 05:03PM
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DSF wrote:

Actually...other than the all too common use of than instead of then, two of those errors were spelling, not grammar.

The Church Lady

lol. Touché.

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#20 Romulus' Apotheosis
December 05 2012, 05:18PM
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This:

It also raises the question that if he was playing with pain, why was he playing? It is impossible to find out how much pain he has been in, and I was told it wasn't regular, but it does make you wonder why he wasn't resting prior to this break in the schedule.

Makes this:

In the case of Hall I'm wondering if the Oilers are being more proactive and ensuring their players are healing properly and that these follow up appointments will become more frequent in the future. The Oilers' recent history regarding injuries hasn't been great, and while no one has told me this directly, I sense they've decided to change their protocol in how they deal with injuries; both during the injury as well as after surgery. I sense a more proactive and cautious approach. I think it will help them long-term.

somewhat less than evidence of a decisive culture change, no?

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#21 craigero
December 05 2012, 08:05PM
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you guys sound like a bunch of women... please hockey come back so we can discuss line combinations and goaltenders. This is brutal... but funny

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#22 Quintana
December 05 2012, 09:34PM
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hunkybill wrote:

I am going to smoke a big FATTY. (No I'm not going to hit someone with my truck). From the Kootenays...

"Herb is the healing of a nation, alcohol is the destruction" Bob Marley.

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#23 Dave Lumley
December 05 2012, 09:55PM
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Wäx Män Riley wrote:

lol. Touché.

All of this is too funny! Best cheap entertainment in a long while.

Kudos to everyone including the serious guy.

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#24 Oilers Coffey
December 06 2012, 07:53AM
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Shoulders never really return to 100% at all, no matter what docs tell you, but you learn to live with it. Let's hope Nuge's tweak is just a nerve.

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#25 @Oilanderp
December 06 2012, 10:24AM
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@Guy

...you should be an expert in the area. I have 17 years of training and the shoulder still confuses me.

"So you're an expert?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmVdVJ1sRJI

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