MIXED BAG

Jason Gregor
June 13 2012 01:49PM

In a bitter twist of irony, the same week that the Oilers bring Craig MacTavish back into the fold, former Oilers Jarret Stoll and Matt Greene hoisted the Cup as members of the Los Angeles Kings. When the Oilers dealt Stoll and Greene to LA for Lubomir Visnovsky, MacTavish agreed with the decision, but yesterday he admitted that in hindsight that was a bad trade.

MacTavish is a smart guy, real smart, and I'm curious to see how he'll be in management compared to being a coach.

When MacTavish was here as a coach, he had a say in some player moves, especially in the last few years of his coaching tenure. It was refreshing to hear MacT admit that the Stoll/Greene trade was a mistake. Those guys aren't superstars, but they are excellent character players, and well respected in the dressing room. The Oilers could use two guys like that to compliment the young stars.

Of course, had the Oilers kept Greene and Stoll they weren't going to make them a contender for the Cup, and even worse, Taylor Hall and Ryan Nugent-Hopkins and this year's first pick wouldn't be here. The key for MacTavish and the rest of management is to learn from that mistake.

In his third stint in the organization; player, coach and now management, he needs to show that he's learned from the mistakes of the past. We all make mistakes, and every management team has made some, but the key is to learn from them and ensure they don't happen again.

MacTavish explained why the time was right to return, and he gave me his thoughts on what his role and contribution within the management framework will be.

"I think there is so much going on in the game today and so much is reliant on the management team to spit out the right decisions that I think you can get spread a little thin with management, and I look forward to jumping into every aspect of the game.

"The job of management is to identify value. Whether you are signing players and understanding what good value is, or whether you are trying to procure players into your organization and identify their value and potential, I need to use the experience I had as a player and coach and hopefully see things in players that make you believe they will improve or thgat you'll get good value for or from them."

The temperament and mindset of a coach is much different than a manager. Coaches want to win, and they rarely have the opportunity to look very far down the road. Very few coaches get to stick through an entire rebuild, ask Tom Renney, and while they might want to develop kids more slowly, the fact is, if a coach doesn't win he rarely sticks around.

MacTavish used to focus solely on the next game, but admits that his mindset will be different now. 

"I think it is natural that you are more patient as a manager. I've always said when I was coaching that is why there are managers, because the coach needs a governor to stifle some of the decisions you make based on the emotion of the game. You have the managers there to try and talk some sense into you in terms of overreaction to certain single events. As a manager you are not as immediately impacted, and from that perspective you are afforded more leeway and patience.

"I think as a coach it is more of a micro environment, where as a manager it is more of a macro environment where you are looking longer term and a little bit more of an abstract fashion, where as a coach you are just trying to win the next game."

DRAFT THOUGHTS

MacTavish has no plans of coming in and telling Stu MacGregor what to do, because MacGregor has done a fantastic job since he took over as head scout in 2008. MacT did give me his thoughts on what teams will be looking for next Friday.

"I think you want the best player, but that doesn't necessarily mean the best player in the next couple years, but the best players 10-15 years down the road. And by franchise players, I mean players that make your organization competitive for 15 years. Players like Sakic and Forsberg in Colorado. They did everything well. They were great leaders, they played well on both sides of the puck, they were very good offensively, physically solid and very good offensively. Detroit had four franchise players; Yzerman, Lidstrom, Datsyuk and Zetterberg who were their best examples of what players need to do to be successful. New Jersey had Brodeur, Scott Stevens and Patrick Elias. Ray Bourque made Boston competitive for 17 years, and those are the types of players you don't want to overlook in this draft by just immediately taking the guy who is great now. It is a deeper decision that just who is the best player at that (now) time."

COACHING

MacTavish knows a lot about coaching, and I asked him what characteristics he thinks the new coach in Edmonton needs to have in order to be successful.

"I think here it is just a case of getting a guy who can really sell a powerful message, and really help the players young and old in their ability to win. We need somebody who has a dynamic presence that can come in and really communicate that message and inspire this group of players. There has been a lot of negative reinforcement through losing the last few years and we need someone who can come in and wipe that away. You need management to come in and add a few pieces that will really tweak the player's interest going into training camp. Make it seem like a different team, a different element and turn the page on what has been a fairly painful period for Oiler fans and that the horizon looks bright.

"We need someone who can come in and really sell the message that the players are good enough to win. The flucutations that happened last year are examples of a team that when they are winning shows they are really strong, but the minute they start to lose they have a hard time overcoming that. You need somebody who has some good rapport and dynamic personality who can come in here and connect with the young players and inspire them to believe they can win championships."

System play is important, but I found it interesting that MacTavish focused more on the personality of a coach. This team needs a charismatic coach, with a mixture of tough love and support. For the past few seasons, the Oilers haven't had enough talent to compete, but I also felt like too often this team hasn't been mentally tough enough or confident enough.

Before ending our conversation I asked MacTavish what are the two most important areas the Oilers will need to improve on before training camp. 

"I think they are well documented. This game isn't that complicated when you analyze the personnel. We need a little bit of help on the defence, that would be my primary concern at this point. I think the veterans will respond next year to this environment, they need to be better, but my wish list, much like 17,000 people that watched them in Rexall on a nightly basis, will be to try and improve the defence. When we do that I think the team will have a real push forward."

RUMOUR MILL WILL HEAT UP

This was the headline last November, and of course the Oilers and Devils never came close to making any deals, but between now and the draft we'll hear lots of trade rumblings.

  • We've already heard Luke Schenn and the 5th pick from the Leafs for the 1st pick overall. Many said no way they'd do it, but considering I'd rather draft Alex Galchenyuk, if I knew that CBJ, MONT and NYI were going to pass on Galchenyuk I'd seriously consider that deal. I like Galchenyuk a lot, and while Schenn hasn't been great thus far in his career, he is still very young. Ladislav Smid took a long time to develop, and I think Schenn is very similar. He needs a change of address. The Oilers could draft Yakupov, and then if Galchenyuk was available at #5, I'd trade him for the pick and Schenn. My bigger concern is Schenn's contract, because he's already at $3.6 cap hit. 

    P.S...I doubt Leafs would do that considering they need a C more than a scoring winger.
     
  • Todd Nelson was in town interviewing for the head coaching job today. I'm hearing they might have one more interview to conduct before making a decision. I won't be surprised to see a new coach in place before they leave for the draft next Wednesday.
     
  • I spoke to a source in Anaheim and Bob Murray is now starting to look at potential offers for Justin Schultz. Many feel that the closer we get to June 25th the lower the return will be. Many teams are leery of giving up anything of substance just to secure the chance to negotiate with Schultz, because they feel Schultz wants to go to free agency. No team can offer him more money, and I'd be stunned if Schultz and his agent haven't already looked at which teams are a good fit. Why not tell the Ducks who those teams are and see if they can make a deal prior to June 25th.
     

Tomorrow is the Astral Caring for Kids Radio Broadcast from the Stollery Children's hospital. I've had the pleasure of doing my show there for the past six years, and every year I'm in awe of the love and support the staff and parents have for the sick children. The kids are truly inspiring and some tough little SOBs.

I've heard many listeners tell me it is hard to listen to some of the heartbreaking stories, but I hope you find the time to listen in tomorrow. Hopefully you've never had to take your child to the Stollery, and hopefully you never will, but I'd recommend doing a "pay-it-in-advance-donation" just in case you ever have to walk through those doors. You've read Brownlee's story of how the Stollery saved his son Sam's life, and if you've been in his shoes you know how incredibly awesome the doctors, nurses and support staff at the Stollery are.

Tune in, it might make ya tear up, but sports fans love emotion. Don't we? 

Ddf3e2ba09069c465299f3c416e43eae
One of Canada's most versatile sports personalities. Jason hosts The Jason Gregor Show, weekdays from 2 to 6 p.m., on TSN 1260, and he writes a column every Monday in the Edmonton Journal. You can follow him on Twitter at twitter.com/JasonGregor
Avatar
#51 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
June 13 2012, 08:48PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
3
props

People seem to be confusing "skilled" with "good", when someone argues that a team is better off with better players, they aren't just talking about fancy offensive skill.

R Nielson is and was far more skilled then Horcoffs, but Horcoff is far more "good" at hockey.

Avatar
#52 GVBlackhawk
June 13 2012, 08:50PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props
oilers2k12 wrote:

Not sure if you can seperate "best player in 10-15 years from now" with consensus number one today.. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that Yakupov wont be every bit as good as Stamkos, the guy broke Stamkos junior rookie scoring record..

If Yakupov was born in North America and doubt as to whom oilers are taking number one wouldve ended the day they won the lottery.. dont tell me that somehow oilers scouts know better than 99 percent of scouts out there, and how can you predict how good someone will be 10 years from now? Yaks has a great attitudem plays physical, wants to be here, and is clearly the bpa(we dont know about galchenyuk due to injury) so its easy, yakupov it is.

I agree. Yakupov is the best choice.

Avatar
#53 Bucknuck
June 13 2012, 08:59PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

The fact he doesn't mention goaltending (Khabby) as a weakness bothers me.

Either he is not aware of the problem (most scary), or has been told not to mention it (less scary but implies stupidity from his bosses).

I hope management sees it.

I am glad he sees the Defense as a weakness.

Avatar
#54 Dave P
June 13 2012, 09:20PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
1
props

I've been in the "TAKE NAIL" Camp for sometime, but OILCAN's spitballing has me wondering.

Let's presume that Shultz will follow Gardiner. That achors Toronto's defense. That would make someone like Shen expendable, and YAKAPOV would certainly give Toronto a Big Jump start.

Think of the mileage Burke would get, with the Toronto media, with the #1 overall pick in his pocket.

But IMO, Toronto would have to offer just a little bit extra (at least a 2nd round pick) to make that happen.

The Oil could get an established Blueliner and have a good chance of getting a pretty good player at #5 plus an additional draft pick.

However, If the OIL could get Gardiner (and by extension Shultz), that fills the 2 defencemen the Oil Need this year. Then at 5 there will still be a pretty good Forward or a Defenceman available.

But IMO, the OIL would have to offer more, possibly a Gagne or the 32nd pick.

I just hope that The OIl and the Leafs take a long long look at these options. Could be a win win.

Avatar
#55 Raine
June 13 2012, 09:29PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
1
props

@TigerUnderGlass

Best examples of highly skilled teams are the Olympic teams. Salary is moot. They can have anyone yet they still opt for role players.

Avatar
#56 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
June 13 2012, 10:15PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props
Raine wrote:

Best examples of highly skilled teams are the Olympic teams. Salary is moot. They can have anyone yet they still opt for role players.

The closest thing to role players the Canadian Olympic team had on it were Morrow, who are both fantastic two way player, and are top 6 (more like top 3) on their respective teams.

If anything the Olympic team proves TUG's point more then it disproves it, as they learned the lesson of taking the Zamnures of the league.

Avatar
#57 One Time!
June 13 2012, 10:25PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

Anybody hearing any rumors that Toronto is willing to give up Jake Gardner and there 5th overall for our 1st overall? Would we have a better shot at landing Justin Schultz as well...

Avatar
#59 fyvmrf
June 14 2012, 12:02AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
1
props

I tend to doubt the notion the Oil are going outside the organization for the next coaching staff. If they select Krueger or Nelson they can force them to keep Smith and Buchberger as assistants. I think they can do better. It would appear Katz is keeping ex-Oilers around no matter what they bring to the table.

The Oil as far back as the 90's have not been long on patience on people hired from outside the 'oil-ed boyz network'. See George Burnett and Tom Renney. Outside hires have always been treated like cannon-fodder in the GM's struggle to stay alive by passing the buck. Tamby craps the bed on staffing the team and then makes Renney walk the plank. B.S.

I doubt very much that either Green or Stoll could have done enough to keep this organization from cratering. They are solid support, heart and soul guys but not game changers. I would suggest the Oil would have still drafted #1 overall at least twice whether they were here or not.

MacT's return may have one other positive affect though...it might light a fire under Tamby's ass to start doing a more convincing impression of an NHL GM.

Avatar
#60 TigerUnderGlass
June 14 2012, 12:09AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props
Raine wrote:

Best examples of highly skilled teams are the Olympic teams. Salary is moot. They can have anyone yet they still opt for role players.

Really? Which NHL "role players" played on the last Olympic team? The only guy who comes within a mile of that description is Morrow, but I'm pretty sure he plays top 6 in the NHL. The rest of the team is pretty much all superstars.

Avatar
#61 TigerUnderGlass
June 14 2012, 12:29AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
1
props
Jason Gregor wrote:

Considering no team has ever done it with four lines, what is your point. That the Kings would have been better off with Vis than Stoll or Greene this year?

He isn't more important on that team, is my point. They didn't need his skill set, they needed guys to win faceoffs and kill penalties.

Trading to get better skill, doesn't always equate to better team. Need a balance. History shows that.

That is the point, teams never have all highly skilled guys, cause many don't do the ugly jobs.

Johnson isn't as terrible as you think. Wait and see. I don't see Visnovsky as high as you do. Too one dimensional for me.

He's great in reg season, but game not made for playoffs.

Why do you keep talking about LA trading for Vis this year? How does the fact that a defensively deep team would not trade for a 35 year old defenseman right now make your point in any way?

You keep trying to somehow connect it to Johnson, but it's irrelevant. Johnson is a bad player who inconceivably bought them Jeff Carter. That was his contribution, and he should probably get his name engraved for it.

Then you say Vis and Johnson are basically the same player, yet somehow Vis is bad and Johnson is good. What am I supposed to make of that?

That is the point, teams never have all highly skilled guys, cause many don't do the ugly jobs.

You are misrepresenting my comments here by equating "skill" to "soft". I have been using the term "skill" to mean "good". The difference is very important. I'm not advocating for Schremp, I'm advocating for good hockey players.

History shows that.

History shows that teams have always been built the traditional way. Traditional does not equal better.

Too one dimensional for me.

If by "one dimensional" you mean "constantly moves the puck in the right direction" then you are correct.

Avatar
#62 TigerUnderGlass
June 14 2012, 12:50AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props
Jason Gregor wrote:

You're lucky you didn't bet....

Here is the link of top PK minutes amongst forwards, only guys on their team who'd be considered top six are Jordan Staal and Horcoff, which suggests Horcoff should be a 3rd liner.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20122ALLFAFALL&sort=avgShortHandedTOIPerGame&viewName=timeOnIce

You don't think this is a matter of managing ice time?

You play the guys who can score during scoring opportunities.

Interestingly enough, Kopitar, Richards, Brown, and Carter were all in the top six PKers for the Stanley cup champs during the playoffs, when playing your best PKers is more important than managing ice time.

The top 7 Devil forwards on the PK during the playoffs were Parise, Elias, Zubrus, Zajac, Henrique, Ponikarovsky, and Kovalchuk. Weird.

Of course guys who aren't scorers can be good on the PK. Scoring ability isn't required. It doesn't mean that players who can score cannot PK. Of course you want guys who can PK on your team, but it doesn't mean they can't also know how to score.

Avatar
#63 Eddie Edmonton
June 14 2012, 01:35AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props
Bucknuck wrote:

The fact he doesn't mention goaltending (Khabby) as a weakness bothers me.

Either he is not aware of the problem (most scary), or has been told not to mention it (less scary but implies stupidity from his bosses).

I hope management sees it.

I am glad he sees the Defense as a weakness.

It wouldn't be very professional of him to call out Khabby or for others to either. What's the sense? If you don't know that your self, you don't follow the Oilers.

Do you really think that the managements doesn't?

Avatar
#64 Eddie Edmonton
June 14 2012, 01:38AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

@Dave P

In my opinion: there is no way in hell that Kevin Lowe gives Yakupov to Burke under no circumstances. No way! If Yakupov becomes an elite for Burke, yeah right. Not under Lowes watch.

Avatar
#65 Heisenberg
June 14 2012, 07:25AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

What's with the big love-in for MacTavish? Everyone seems to be saying the same thing, how he's a "smart guy". He's not Einstein people! Just a guy who lost a room and was unable to get another coaching gig in the NHL.

I think a few years down the road we'll look back and reflect on how bad a decision it was to have him in the fold.

Avatar
#66 Not that I know
June 14 2012, 08:13AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props
Heisenberg wrote:

What's with the big love-in for MacTavish? Everyone seems to be saying the same thing, how he's a "smart guy". He's not Einstein people! Just a guy who lost a room and was unable to get another coaching gig in the NHL.

I think a few years down the road we'll look back and reflect on how bad a decision it was to have him in the fold.

He is just one of three of the hockey minds managing the Oilers. So really the group as a whole will sink or swim. How will we know who does what to assume that the hiring was good or bad ?

As a coach he was successful given the talent he had to work with .. his teams worked hard.

Avatar
#67 Dave P
June 14 2012, 08:37AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
1
props

@Eddie Edmonton is probably right, the chance to get Yakapov is attractive.

However, the chance to get a strong pair of defencemen (Shultz and Gardiner) plus a pretty good player at #5 seems too tempting IMO.

Offer the DUCKS a #6 or a #7 and discuss the situation with Shultz.

Then if Shultz is receptive, Offer Toronto next years #1 and this years. If need be sweeten the pot with a roster player (maybe Eager).

Would give BURKE a chance to recoup on the Kessel trade and he might LEAP at the chance to make a splash.

At #5 Forsberg, Galchenyuk, or Morgan Ryley would probably still be available.

Just thinking OUTSIDE the BOX here...

Avatar
#68 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
June 14 2012, 08:54AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
1
props

@ Jason Gregor

"You're lucky you didn't bet....

Here is the link of top PK minutes amongst forwards, only guys on their team who'd be considered top six are Jordan Staal and Horcoff, which suggests Horcoff should be a 3rd liner.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20122ALLFAFALL&sort=avgShortHandedTOIPerGame&viewName=timeOnIce"

Actually, I'm lucky that I didn't bet that most teams top PK min guy was a top 6 forward. I said:

"In fact I'd bet most teams get a high % of their penalty killing from their top two lines."

Avatar
#69 @Oilanderp
June 14 2012, 09:41AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

Ummm guys,

It's all about the normal distribution, or bell curve.

Not many guys can 'do it all'. Some guys are good offensively, some are good defensively. Few are good at both (superstars).

Gregor is saying there are certain roles which need to be fulfilled in order to be a successful team. Specifically, there need to be both offensive specialists and defensive specialists.

Tiger is saying that a team of guys who are good at both would be preferable to a team of specialists.

Both of you agree that certain tasks or roles need to be done in order to win.

You are both arguing the exact same thing.

My only contribution to this discussion is that in reality there aren't enough superstars (guys who do it all very well) for 30 teams to ice 4 lines of them. That's what makes them super, they are rare. So, you get specialists (guys great at one thing) and put them in specific roles.

Avatar
#70 @Oilanderp
June 14 2012, 09:49AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
3
props

Tiger: A team of superstars would beat a team of specialists.

Gregor: No way you need roleplayers to win. You can't just have a bunch of offensive guys and win.

Tiger: I agree. What I mean by 'superstars' is guys who can do it all. Score. Check. Pk, etc.

Gregor: Well, ok. But there aren't that many superstars to go around.

Tiger: Good point, so in reality you'd have to settle for some guys who are good at some things but not good at others.

Gregor: Yeah.

Tiger: Cool. As long as the roles are being fulfilled.

Gregor: Exactly. I am so glad we agree.

Tiger: Me too. I love you.

Gregor: That's weird, but you know what I love you too.

(embrace)

[FIN]

Avatar
#71 D-Man
June 14 2012, 11:54AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props
@Oilanderp wrote:

Tiger: A team of superstars would beat a team of specialists.

Gregor: No way you need roleplayers to win. You can't just have a bunch of offensive guys and win.

Tiger: I agree. What I mean by 'superstars' is guys who can do it all. Score. Check. Pk, etc.

Gregor: Well, ok. But there aren't that many superstars to go around.

Tiger: Good point, so in reality you'd have to settle for some guys who are good at some things but not good at others.

Gregor: Yeah.

Tiger: Cool. As long as the roles are being fulfilled.

Gregor: Exactly. I am so glad we agree.

Tiger: Me too. I love you.

Gregor: That's weird, but you know what I love you too.

(embrace)

[FIN]

I've never laughed so hard in my life... And you've included Tiger in the mix... AWESOME!! If I could give you 10 props, I would...

Thanks for the laugh...

Avatar
#72 David S
June 14 2012, 12:07PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

@~S~K~

*Weiserhood slow clap*

Avatar
#73 Turnover
June 14 2012, 12:29PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

Ganger's name came up again. He has played 366 NHL season games. He is an average player. No more, no less in my opinion. He has issues with skating, puck movement and size. When are some of you people going to let go of the word "potietal" and accept facts? he is what you have seen. Average.

Avatar
#74 The Soup Fascist
June 14 2012, 12:32PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

I am not familiar with the word "potietal" but it will come in handy in Scrabble and WWF. Thanks.

And who is this Ganger you speak of?

Avatar
#75 Pucker
June 14 2012, 01:27PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

In regards to teams having all skill players.

The Stanley Cup Champs used to play the NHL All-Star Team the following season. This is probably going back to the original six. . As my memory serves, the Stanley Cuppers usually won. I always attributed it to that many muckers can discourage many skill players from displaying their skill. A good team needs both.

Avatar
#76 Turnover
June 14 2012, 01:34PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

@ The Soup Fascist

I don't spell very well. But I do have good vision. I can see I ruffled your feathers.

Avatar
#77 The Soup Fascist
June 14 2012, 04:50PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

@ Turnover

Fair enough. I suck at video games and don't eat enough salad.

While a realize this issue has been discussed ad nauseum, Sam Gagner by definition is an above average hockey player. He finished 105th in forward scoring. Just counting starters there are 360 forwards in the NHL. If average is 180th place, then an average NHL forward last year scored 32 points. Gagner's 47 points put him one behind Ryan Malone and Curtis Glencross and one more than Ryan Smyth and David Clarkson.

I realize points are not the only measure of a player. So I will add Gagner was +5 on a team that gave up 27 more goals than it scored and is a tough little player. He is only 22. I realize I am wasting my breath on the Gagner haters but - I can't help myself. Add "lack of self control" to my deficiencies.

Comments are closed for this article.