STOP THE INSANITY... AND A BATTLER

Jason Gregor
July 18 2012 11:18AM

It's true, we are all special in our own way, and usually we can't stand the differences in others. It's a vicious cycle, and at times I just want to put my hands up and shout, "Enough."

The Arena debate has become too much for me. Both sides have become so blinded by their goal that they can't even be rationale anymore.

Can we please just come to a conclusion.

I doubt I'm the only one who feels this way.

Don't get me wrong, I understand it is a big decision, but can we please stop pretending, "This is the most important decision our city will make in the next 50 years," because if it is then our city won't have accomplished much in the next half century.

This debate has reached the point where the extremists for both sides are reaching for anything to back up their stance.

LINE IN THE SAND

This debate has gone on for years and we haven't seen much real progress, for either side.

PRO ARENA

  • I respect that you want the rink, because I want it as well, but please stop implying that if the rink isn't built the Oilers are leaving town. Where are they going? Kansas City, yes I'm sure those fans will sell out the rink every night, especially in the 6th consecutive year with no playoffs. And I'm sure they will pay $225/night for lowerbowl tickets. Not happening, so stop the subtle fear mongering.

    There are no other cities in Canada who have a rink, and do you think good ole Gary Bettman is going to let one of the few teams that make money just up and leave. Have you not been paying attention to the Phoenix Coyotes situation...Bettman won't let a team losing $30 million a year leave, but you think that he'll just let the Oilers leave town? Be better.

    Talk about the good points of the arena, but don't stoop to the low level of subtle threats. It's not helping your cause.
     
  • Daryl Katz get in front of your idea. People want to believe in you, but they can't believe in someone they never see or hear. I don't expect you to stand in front of the media every day, but is it that hard to stand up once, answer a few questions and tell the fans why you want the rink. I saw you speak at city council. Everyone could see your passion. You were well spoken. I understand public speaking isn't your thing, but it is clear you are a smart man, and you must realize that talking to the fans and citizens of Edmonton would help your dream more than hurt it.
     
  • Why no mention of a Green Arena like Wanye was touting a couple years back?
     
  • What happened to the talk that there would be an "affordable seating" section in the new rink. Is it still going to happen, and if so, why haven't you kept talking about it. You need to keep mentioning some of the unique aspects you originally said would be in place.

ANTI ARENA

  • Your argument that "the billionaire" should pay for everything has little depth, and from where I sit, it comes across as jealousy as much as anything else.
     
  • Stop implying that the MSI (Municipal Sustainability Initiative) will take away money from education and healthcare. MSI is for infrastructure, it won't cost any teachers or healthcare workers their jobs. Spokesperson for municipal affairs for the government of Alberta, Michelle Davio, explained to me exactly how it works.

"One of the eligible categories to use MSI funding is for parks, recreation, and sports facilities. There's a criteria, but assuming that it meets the criteria, that would be an acceptable use. Building a school falls under another budget."

  • In 2013 Davio said Edmonton is expected to receive $187 million in MSI funding and likely the same or more in the following years. She also said that the city doesn't need to use the $100 million in one shot; it can be spread out over years. So Edmonton could use $10 million for the next ten years, or $25 million over the next four. You can debate the $10 million could go towards other infrastructure, but at least argue the actual yearly number. If it is $10 million a year that is 5.3% of the total MSI every year. It won't cripple the city.
     
  • If you are opposed to the funding structure of the arena, please submit a viable alternative. It is easy to say you don't like deal, but I've yet to see any report with any real substance as to what would be a better route. I think most would agree our downtown needs to improve, so show us your plan, maybe it is better.

BOTH SIDES

  • How come no one came up with a plan for cost overruns? Did you honestly believe this project wouldn't come in over budget? Someone needed to have that in place, and then we wouldn't have had to deal with people going nuts over the new $485 million price tag. I said from day one we knew it would cost more than $450 million, so how come no one had a contingency plan on how to pay for overruns?
     
  • Can someone tell us what the timetable is regarding the MSI. When will the provincial government decide if the city can use the $100 million? Considering the MSI has been around since 2007, there must have been a schedule or protocol in previous years on when they approved or vetoed any proposed projects. The money is distributed in June, according to Davio, so did they approve the arena under the MSI last month or not?

    Councillor Bryan Anderson hinted that a decision was coming soon, but why not be more specific. I'm guessing he must know the timetable of said decision.
     
  • Most Edmontonians want the truth. We might not like it, but like most things in life if you hear the truth at least we know where we stand. It has been two years and the progress has been laughable. Even Steve Tambellini thinks you are taking too long to make a decision.

I respect that this is a big decision, with many moving parts, but can we please come to a resolution either way. Other cities have made this decision, for or against, in a much shorter time frame.

Make a decision and live with it, and hopefully it is the right one.

QUICK HITS

Brent Peterson was selected 12th overall in 1978 by the Detroit Red Wings. He played four years of junior in the WCHL (now the WHL), two with the Edmonton Oil Kings and two in Portland. He tallied 34 goals and 112 points in 69 games as a 19-year-old in Portland before being drafted by the Wings as a 20-year-old.

He spent 11 seasons in the NHL between Detroit, Buffalo, Vancouver and Hartford. Like many high-scoring juniors he had to change his game to stick in the NHL. He became a checking forward and played 620 games.

He retired in the summer of 1989 and became an assistant coach that fall with the Whalers. He was there for two years, before he went back to Portland. He spent the next seven season in Portland, the first two as a co-coach and then the last five as head coach.

In 1998 Barry Trotz hired him as his assistant in Nashville and he was there for 12 years before he had to step down because of Parkinson's disease. 

TSN also did a wonderful feature on Peterson as well. You can watch it here.

For years Peterson didn't tell many people he had Parkinson's, but recently he decided it would be better if he became a spokesperson for the devastating disease. I've seen how destructive Parkinson's can be and Brent has become a great spokesman for this disease.

He is an incredible story teller and he will be in town on Monday, August 13th to golf in the Liberty Classic charity tournament to support Parkinson's.

You and a friend can play with him and hear some great stories of his playing and coaching days.

Today during my show we will auction off a two-some to play with Peterson. He'll join me on air at 2:20 to talk about his battle with Parkinson's and to share a few stories.

If you want to bid on the golf package you can call 780.426.8326 starting at 2 p.m.

Ddf3e2ba09069c465299f3c416e43eae
One of Canada's most versatile sports personalities. Jason hosts The Jason Gregor Show, weekdays from 2 to 6 p.m., on TSN 1260, and he writes a column every Monday in the Edmonton Journal. You can follow him on Twitter at twitter.com/JasonGregor
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#51 Spydyr
July 18 2012, 05:06PM
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The design increasing the seats by a few thousand and putting in more other entities such as restaurants and skyboxes is fine.

Now what I would like to see is expanding the top bowl.Making it fit 22,000 and make the top 5,000 nose-bleeds seat affordable for families and the working man.Really over $225 for a lower bowl seat.Not everyone can afford that hit.

I guarantee you the top affordable seats portion would be the loudest most rowdiest part of the rink.Full of real fans not corporate seats.

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#52 Pouzar99
July 18 2012, 05:13PM
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I have been a season ticket holder for almost all of the past 30 years and am well aware that a new arena is a must and support the planned arena.

I have no problem with using significant public funds to build it. I do believe, however, that Katz is not supplying enough of the funding and it seems his contribution always gets smaller. If he is cash poor, as some suggest, than arrangements should be made to spread the cost over time or he could get a loan.

It is unrealistic in a small market like Edmonton to expect the owner to bear the full cost of a $450 million arena or anything close to it, but Katz is getting off cheap.

With the ticket tax in effect and Katz wanting to recoup what he can, can you imagine what ticket prices will be like in the new building? Pretty scary.

Most people are supportive of the project but many think it is too much of a sweetheart deal for Katz and this is a legitimate point of view.

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#53 SteadyEd
July 18 2012, 05:22PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFzXaFbxDcM

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#54 EHH Team
July 18 2012, 05:49PM
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Dave240 said "Is that no longer part of the deal or does Coun. Diotte just not know what he is talking about?"

I believe this is true. The negative three on council will never be satisfied and will keep coming up with new reasons for voting no.

Trying to renegotiate the deal with Katz will only serve to delay the process and inevitably will cost more.

I have shared season tickets since 1978 and I don't know how many more years I will be able to carry on. Please build it already.

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#55 The Soup Fascist
July 18 2012, 06:12PM
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rubbertrout wrote:

Bananas are a tasty and nutritious treat.

... And are, in actuality, dried ovaries. Yummy.

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#56 Wäx Män Riley
July 18 2012, 06:35PM
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Dman09 wrote:

No city tax increase will happen, the mayor has publicly stated that. The only taxes that will rise will be down town but that will be due to the increase in property value that all the new develop will create ie. your property will be worth more.

People please get the facts right.

Tax money will be used.

The point I was making is that if tax dollars are used, I want to see a building built properly. With bells and whistles. As opposed to a budget facility that A View from GP is saying happened in GP.

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#57 Puritania
July 18 2012, 06:42PM
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Someone should mention to Kerry Diotte how city council falls all over themselves, to give themselves raises with taxpayer money next time he wants to be the center of attention and pretend he is the defender of the people.

I'd like to slap that condescending face off his head.

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#58 Wäx Män Riley
July 18 2012, 06:44PM
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Dman09 wrote:

except the area district will create a lot more money than an art gallery.

Yes, I agree. Had this been sorted out 2 or 3 years ago, costs could have been lower. The longer this takes, the more expensive it will be.

Alberta is coming into another phase where construction is in higher demand.

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#59 Weasel Wellwood
July 18 2012, 06:52PM
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Spydyr wrote:

The design increasing the seats by a few thousand and putting in more other entities such as restaurants and skyboxes is fine.

Now what I would like to see is expanding the top bowl.Making it fit 22,000 and make the top 5,000 nose-bleeds seat affordable for families and the working man.Really over $225 for a lower bowl seat.Not everyone can afford that hit.

I guarantee you the top affordable seats portion would be the loudest most rowdiest part of the rink.Full of real fans not corporate seats.

Yup.

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#60 michael
July 18 2012, 07:13PM
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Where was council oversight when they were paying that pile balls on whitemud? Or the giant boot at Southgate. There is 1.2 million I would rather they not have spent. How about the public Toilet on White Ave? I pay my taxes and expect some semblance of intelligence in the way my tax dollars are spent. don't stand up as a politician and lie to me and say things that are untrue. I am not going to take a raise. Then take one. I am not going t0 raise taxes. Then stiff me for 8%. Be honest and say to me this thing is going to cost us 250 million dollars of tax money to do right. I can live with that. The 23 ave interchange was a pain in the ass. But it had it be done. 127ave and yellowhead has to be done.Do it.

Will Diotte and Sloan and Caterina be the first to stand up when the New Museum is built on 97st and 101ave and say 400 million is to much. We can cheap out on the floors and the toilets and such there to don't you know. How many of us have walked through the doors of the Provincial Museum as kids and as adults. My 9 yr old son and I went twice there last year. Busloads of children go there every year. Do we expect it to make money? budget is 350 million. All 3 levels are involved. Who wants to be the level that says no?

The Arena is needed and wanted by the majority of citizens. If I got to pay an extra 8 dollars per ticket every time I see an event there I will gladly pay the ticket tax. You want to stay home. Fine. You want to go to the River Valley. hey the city maintains that too with our tax dollars.

Tell me its 485. fine. Tell me its 525. Fine. Don't sugar coat it. I'll take it like a taxpayer.

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#61 kale
July 18 2012, 07:54PM
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sorry, but on a different note, does anyone have any insight into why Yakupov remains unsigned? I see other first rounders such as Grigorenko, Forsberg and Faksa all signing contracts and I am not sure what the hold up is.

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#62 IfBruceLeeWasAnOiler
July 18 2012, 08:37PM
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Good Question @Kale I know it sounds silly but the Oilers may be waiting for the new cba to start. rookies contract may be as long as five years. i would rather have Yakupov on a rookie contract for five years then three

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#63 DK0
July 18 2012, 08:49PM
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@kale

Because they are working out a new CBA agreement, and so far they are pitching a 5 year entry level contract system instead of 3 year. So if we wait a month, we might be able to sign him for 2 more years for cheap

edit: I ARE GUD AT READING PRVS COMMENTSS

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#64 Oilcruzer
July 18 2012, 09:51PM
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@DK0

Zactly. I can't figure out why others signed so quick.

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#65 Reagan
July 18 2012, 10:23PM
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Save 100+ million! Build that Damn arena at the Old Airport site! Two major roadways + Bus and LRT action. Shopping accross the street, and cross population from NAIT. Resturants and bar could easily fill space. Not to mention there is plently of land for parking. The funny part is who wants to drive to the congested traffic downtown area, the existing transit sucks too downtown, and the Airport land is already paid for... Oh well, here's to breaking ground in 2014 and inflating the cost another 100 million for the tax payers to cough up...

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#66 1260 listener
July 18 2012, 10:26PM
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It seemed to me that Jason on his show implied that the city got hosed by Katz and that there could or should be more negotiations. It sounded to me that he was in favour of dragging this process on and on.

Mr. Diotte is just an opportunist trying to pander to the taxpayers who don't go to events at Rexall.

It is too bad the citizens of Edmonton did not get to choose between the Art Gallery and the Museum.

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#67 1260 listener
July 18 2012, 10:28PM
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1260 listener wrote:

It seemed to me that Jason on his show implied that the city got hosed by Katz and that there could or should be more negotiations. It sounded to me that he was in favour of dragging this process on and on.

Mr. Diotte is just an opportunist trying to pander to the taxpayers who don't go to events at Rexall.

It is too bad the citizens of Edmonton did not get to choose between the Art Gallery and the Museum.

Sorry I meant between the Museum and the Arena ...

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#68 EHH Team
July 18 2012, 10:52PM
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that was my take too.

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#69 Reg Dunlop
July 18 2012, 11:12PM
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Funding for the arena doesn't include direct provincal $$$. If the unaccounted 100-plus million came directly from the province, ground could be broken now. Hypothetically, if the arena agreement gets scuppered because of a lack of provincal involvement and Katz were to relocate to Quebec; how quickly would the province jump to help fund a new Calgary arena?

As unlikely as an Oiler move is, it is possible. At least the Colliseum is good enough for jr. hockey. And we would all be smarter and more cultured by visiting the art gallery and museum on a january saturday night.

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#70 junior mint77
July 18 2012, 11:17PM
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off topic but shea webber signs 14yr 100mil offer sheet from phily

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#71 junior mint77
July 18 2012, 11:30PM
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so does this mean pronger is done and hasn't made it official yet?

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#72 Dave Lumley
July 18 2012, 11:37PM
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Agree with lots of the commentators and I especially like to comments from Grande Prairie.

350 million for the new museum, 88 million for an Art Gallery, 160 million for the Terrwilligar Rec centre, 112 million for the Commonwealth Rec Centre. These are just a few of the facilities that I will never step into. Been to the 75 million renovated Jubilee Auditorium once.

Some of these facilities make for a more vibrant City but spending 272 million for two Rec centres I find a bit questionable, especially since they compete directly with Private facilities that generate income and pay taxes not consume them. The point is that a downtown arena is an economic generator not a drain like 800 million spent on these other projects.

What will generate more buzz and income for the city? Museum or new rink? The rink by far.

Also I like the Wild Rose idea of creating a special lottery and allocating casino funds to fund the shortfall. The conservative government needs to get off its smug backsides and solve the problem and not let everyone keep twisting in the wind trying to knife each other in the back.

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#73 Banger
July 19 2012, 07:56AM
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I lived in Edmonton since 2008 and just recently moved back to saskatchewan and now it is ground hog day all over again with the new stadium in Regina. This debate has only been going on since the 70's though here..... buckle up edmonton.

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#74 Zamboni Driver
July 19 2012, 08:49AM
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Sorry but the Art Gallery and Museum are ridiculous comparisons.

Get a grip...the revenue for this place

ALL OF THE REVENUE (okay, minus the rodeo I guess)

Goes to Katz. Phil Art Gallery and Jenny Museum are not getting richer and richer.

It's not the same.

Listen, I'm in favour of the project. And am actually okay with some SOME tax dollars going in. But the idea that somehow Katz gets off scott free, pays next to nothing and gets all the revenue has no semblance of sense. The fact that people are wondering how come Katz isn't kicking in more money means we are commies or whatever is a joke (also it's completely backwards).

But I guess I'm just a small thinking Reimer-lover, huh Bob?

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#75 Oilcruzer
July 19 2012, 09:05AM
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@Zamboni Driver

They are great comparisons. Don't for a minute think that the City of Edmonton won't plaster pictures of the arena and City Hall and the Art Gallery in their negotiations with developers, tourism, etc.

All of these have spinoffs that work together.

Having just returned from Europe, the trend of the successful cities is to create an area downtown that people want to come to. Baltimore is a perfect example when they completely revamped their downtown core and included two stadiums. One of the great cities to visit. Everything is close and consumer friendly.

Next up... Close down streets to foot traffic. People drive by the current shops. They will walk into a community gathering... And yes there are weather logistics to overcome.

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#76 View from Grande Prairie
July 19 2012, 09:50AM
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Thanks for the nice comments on my post yesterday. I wasn’t entirely sure if Grande Prairie’s experience with the Canada Games Arena was overly relevant, but it struck some chords.

The thing is, the CGA was a 100-percent publicly-funded building and, of course, the new arena in Edmonton is going to be a mostly-publicly-funded building ... that will make money primarily for the Oilers. So there are some obvious differences.

The Canada Games Arena is a textbook example of how not to build an arena. The committee in charge of its budget (and design) in early 1990s was full of cheapskate local politicians who generally only worried about snow removal and fixing potholes. If corners could be cut on big-picture municipal projects, the mandate was to find them, come hell or high water.

I mentioned in my post yesterday that the CGA’s shortcomings essentially scuttled GP’s chances of ever landing a Western Hockey League team. That’s been a hard lesson for the City of GP to learn. In the late 1990s, it was revealed the city council actually had landing a WHL team as one of its long term “policy goals.” When the Prince Albert Raiders were floundering financially, a group here actually looked into the possibility of moving the franchise here. It never really got off the ground and rumours are that the building’s comparatively-small seating capacity of 2,500 seats turned off the league (as well as the travel distance, let’s face it). The money was here, otherwise.

Since the mid-2000s when the Women’s World Curling Championship was held here, the Canada Games Arena has been dying a slow death. As I noted earlier, the big-time acts and concerts are skipping over GP and heading to Dawson Creek’s Encana Centre. And trade shows, previously the CGA’s bread-and-butter, have been moving, one-by-one, to a beautiful, multi-purpose convention centre built about five years ago by the County of Grande Prairie (which builds stuff right the first time) and situated out in the fairgrounds about five minutes south of the city.

The good news is that local politicians learned a lesson from the CGA. In December, a new pool/fieldhouse/rec centre/waterpark/workout centre called the EastLink Centre opened up on south GP. It took about five years to build and cost around $100 million – and its costs increased steadily during construction. But the city held its course, for the most part and didn’t cut much out of it. Despite some nagging flaws, it appears to have built right the first time.

Again, it’s obviously different when we’re talking about buildings like the CGA that were built and budgeted using 100-percent taxpayer money, versus the ... ahem ... unique funding model that’s being proposed for the new barn in Edmonchuck.

But Grande Prairie’s lesson is relevant for Edmonton: When you have one chance – and one chance only – to build an arena right, don’t screw it up by nickel-and-diming it. The CGA was a once-in-a-generation chance and Grande Prairie screwed it up, big-time, in the early 1990s.

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#77 2004Z06
July 19 2012, 10:18AM
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Who pays the interest on the loan? Katz contribution is going to be paid out on an annual basis over the next several years. The city will need to take out a loan for the full amount upfront to pay for construction. So who makes the interest payments on a 450-500 million dollar loan? Where does that money come from?

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#78 JimmyOiler
July 19 2012, 11:05AM
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Regarding the arena, this made a lot of sense to me:

http://video.oilers.nhl.com/videocenter/console?catid=4&id=184413&cmpid=embed-share-video

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#79 The Soup Fascist
July 19 2012, 11:47AM
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@ Zamboni Driver

The cities negotiations with Katz can certainly be scrutinized. That is fair. But the element you seem to be overlooking is that while revenue from concessions, naming, parking, branding etc do go to Katz via Rexall Sports, there will be a significant uptick to the city in terms of Development and the resulting increase in taxes.

I would agree that the deal that stands is favorable to Katz. But I have no problem with that. He bucked up $200 mil plus for a business that, while I am sure will turn a decent profit with this rink, also brings a ton of benefit to the city. I know some will disagree, but in reality a large part of our city and many small to mid-size cities are defined by their professional sports teams.

Do you really think any one would utter the name "Green Bay" without the Packers. If not for the NFL franchise, they are Madison or Kenosha, which are larger and as large respectively in population. I would argue that Edmonton is known in other parts of the world, largely for two reasons, the Oilers and a mall. That may be sad, but it is true. No one knows about our Gallery, or Summer Festivals or River Valley if they don't google the Edmonton Oilers, or WEM. What do you think it would cost the City of Edmonton Chamber of Commerce to flash the word "Edmonton" every 5 minutes on an ESPN banner, eighty plus nights (and another eighty mornings the next day) a year?

Edmonton benefits from the Oilers and with a new rink the Oilers will benefit from Edmonton. I am OK with that. I am just tired of people villifying Katz, simply because he is rich. In reality the Oilers would be in serious trouble if the old Ownership group (God Bless them for stepping in and stepping out when they did) was faced with the current floor / cap. That cannot be argued. Let's get the deal done and get shovels in the ground. We want to be a world class city but can't get a flipping hockey rink built without getting tripped up over the number of urinals or tiles to be used in the foyer, FFS. Finalize a deal with Katz and move forward building a world class, iconic facility. We as a community need to be better.

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#80 VMR
July 19 2012, 01:55PM
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I'm in favor of the Arena but I think Katz got a sweetheart of a deal. I dont think the city should be making it any better for Katz by agreeing to go over the $450 million they agreed to cap the price at. If they have to cut things like parking and an onsite Oilers store that only benefit Katz or things that cut down long term maintenance costs that he's agreed to pay, that absolutly makes sense on where they should be cutting to get back to $450 million.

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#81 Zamboni Driver
July 19 2012, 03:37PM
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@The Soup Fascist

Totally agree with you, on all points (other than somehow Katz should be somehow congratulated for buying the team. He was asked to become one of the Copper Jackets...he said no. THOSE guys are to be congratulated. He's ALREADY making a load of money, and if his staff could figure out a way to get a few players taller than 5-8 and older than 16 maybe he'd even have a playoff gate or two..but I digress).

My point is the idea that the missing $100 mil (that we keep just saying, "Will come.") and that cost overruns are of no responsibility to Katz is asinine. That somehow questioning why the single, solitary person set to benefit the most from building a new arena (again, something I'm in favour of) should not be judged or questioned, or told to, you know, actually PAY SOMETHING is anti-Oiler - that's nuts.

The City caves and caves and caves....hell, they're negotiating with and against themselves as far as I can (where IS Bruce Wayne?)

Finally a point to consider. When the province does kick in the money. It's not $100 million.

It's $200 million.

Do you want your tax money going to the Flames?

Because it's going to. For sure.

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#82 The Soup Fascist
July 19 2012, 05:04PM
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@ Zamboni Driver

In terms of the Oilers Ownership Group, I agree they stepped up when no one else would and are truly heroes in terms of the Oilers history. BUT, I can tell that a friend of mine who was a member of the EIG, indicated it was becoming difficult to sustain and the group was clearly divided. The last cash call brought about significant dysfunction. Katz came along at the right time and has shown he will spend the money required in terms of salary and off-ice costs.

I realize that within five years of the Oildrum (or whatever) being built, Calgary will be coming hat in hand. Frankly, my tax dollars have been spent in much more foolish ways. I suspect a lottery of some type will be in place or some form of legalized single game betting - though there are several pratfalls with that. I will say however that the Saddledome is 15 years newer than Rexall so they should not get their panties in a bunch just yet.

If you think Katz should bear more of the costs - I disagree, but fine, you have as many votes as I do. But the city needs to get it done and get the project moving. Watching this debacle, it is the very definition of bureaucracy. Council needs to set up a negotiating committee and give them the responsibility and accountability of closing a deal.

There is something like $17 Billion in Oilsands projects alone sanctioned and scheduled for the next five years in Alberta. Trades and material costs are going up - not down. Make a deal and move on. Thanks for the discussion.

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#83 Oilcruzer
July 19 2012, 08:02PM
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@Zamboni Driver

What's wrong with the Province kicking in the same deal for the Flames?

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#84 Ted Sheckler
July 19 2012, 09:49PM
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Reagan wrote:

Save 100+ million! Build that Damn arena at the Old Airport site! Two major roadways + Bus and LRT action. Shopping accross the street, and cross population from NAIT. Resturants and bar could easily fill space. Not to mention there is plently of land for parking. The funny part is who wants to drive to the congested traffic downtown area, the existing transit sucks too downtown, and the Airport land is already paid for... Oh well, here's to breaking ground in 2014 and inflating the cost another 100 million for the tax payers to cough up...

This

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#85 Oilcruzer
July 20 2012, 05:39AM
Trash it!
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JimmyOiler wrote:

Regarding the arena, this made a lot of sense to me:

http://video.oilers.nhl.com/videocenter/console?catid=4&id=184413&cmpid=embed-share-video

Somehow, I don't see Jan Riemer or Bill Smith making that statement.

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