HALL OR EBERLE?
Jason Gregor
August 14 2012 10:28AM
In certain debates there can be no wrong answer, only differing opinions, and I think this article is one where there is no wrong answer.
Yesterday during my radio show Ryan Rishaug and I debated who would we rather have in a game seven; Taylor Hall or Jordan Eberle? Rishaug picked Eberle, while I picked Hall.
Unlike previous years when we've debated the merits of young Oilers, this is the first time in the last decade where I can honestly say there is little downside to either player. Both are incredibly talented, have a desire to win, have scored key goals and they still have room to improve.
But there is no fence sitting today. You take one or the other.
During a quick text/twitter poll on the show the majority (71%) leaned towards Eberle. Rishaug talked about his ability to be "clutch" and that he has the "it," that only special players have in key situations. Of course he is referring to Eberle's heroics as a member of Canada's World Junior team.
Or maybe this is why people feel that way...
There is no debate that Eberle was the go-to-guy at the WJC. Twice he electrified a Nation when they were on the brink of losing. He will go down as one of the best "clutch" goal scorers in Canadian WJC history.
Here's a quick look at their numbers when playing for Canada at the U18 and WJC:
Eberle:
| SEASON | TEAM | GP | G | A | P | PIM |
| 2007-2008 | Canada-WJ18-A | 7 | 4 | 6 | 10 | 0 |
| 2008-2009 | Canada-WJC-A | 6 | 6 | 7 | 13 | 2 |
| 2009-2010 | Canada-WJC-A | 6 | 8 | 5 | 13 | 4 |
Hall:
| 2007-2008 | Canada-WJ18-A | 7 | 4 | 5 | 9 | 4 |
| 2009-2010 | Canada-WJC-A | 6 | 6 | 6 | 12 | 0 |
We'll never know if Hall would have matched Eberle's eight goals and 13 points in his 2nd stint at the WJC, because Hall was playing in the NHL, but they each had ten goals between their first year at the WJC and the WJ18. Of course Eberle's two game-tying goals will live on in Canada hockey history, and when he added the first goal in the SO win over Russia in 2009, his reputation as being "clutch" grew even bigger.
HALL'S HEROICS
Hall has also been a go-to-guy early in his career. He won back-to-back Memorial Cups while being named the MVP both years. He was also the OHL playoff MVP in 2009. His playoff numbers in junior were ridiculous.
| SEASON | TEAM | GP | G | A | P | +/- | PIM | PPG |
| 2007-2008 | Windsor Spitfires-OHL | 5 | 2 | 3 | 5 | -6 | 2 | 1 |
| 2008-2009 | Windsor Spitfires-OHL | 20 | 16 | 20 | 36 | 15 | 12 | 6 |
| 2009-2010 | Windsor Spitfires-OHL | 19 | 17 | 18 | 35 | 16 | 32 | 7 |
| TOTALS | 44 | 35 | 41 | 76 | 25 | 46 | 14 | |
| MEMORIAL CUP | ||||||||
| 2008-2009 | Windsor Spitfires-M-Cup | 6 | 2 | 6 | 8 | n/a | 8 | |
| 2009-2010 | Windsor Spitfires-M-Cup | 4 | 5 | 4 | 9 | n/a | 2 | |
| TOTALS | 10 | 7 | 10 | 17 | 10 |
It is hard to compare Hall's junior numbers to Eberle's because Hall had a better supporting cast, but he was still the class of his team during the playoffs. During those two OHL championships he tallied 71 points, the next closest forward was Dale Mitchell with 46. Adam Henrique had 42, Scott Timmins scored 38 and Greg Nemisz had 32. Ryan Ellis was the other dominant Spitfire those years scoring an amazing 64 points as a blueliner.
While Hall had a solid supporting cast, he was clearly the offensive anchor.
Eberle's junior playoff stats are solid despite never winning a round in the WHL.
| 2005-2006 | Calgary Buffaloes-AMHL | 11 | 7 | 1 | 8 | 8 | 0 |
| 2006-2007 | Regina Pats-WHL | 6 | 2 | 5 | 7 | 2 | 1 |
| 2007-2008 | Regina Pats-WHL | 5 | 2 | 4 | 6 | 7 | 2 |
| WHL TOTALS | 11 | 4 | 9 | 13 | 9 | 3 |
Eberle was great at the WJC and Hall dominated for two years in junior.
IN THE SHOW
Their junior and WJC numbers are great, but what they do in the NHL will be the utlimate measuring stick. Two years into their NHL careers, there isn't much separating them, other than games played. Eberle has produced three more goals and 24 more points in 21 more games.
Eberle:
| SEASON | TEAM | GP | G | A | P | +/- | PIM | PPG | SHG | GWG | S | S% |
| 2010-2011 | Oilers | 69 | 18 | 25 | 43 | -12 | 22 | 4 | 2 | 5 | 158 | 11.4 |
| 2011-2012 | Oilers | 78 | 34 | 42 | 76 | 4 | 10 | 10 | 0 | 4 | 180 | 18.9 |
| NHL TOTALS | 147 | 52 | 67 | 119 | -8 | 32 | 14 | 2 | 9 | 338 | 15.4 |
Hall:
| SEASON | TEAM | GP | G | A | P | +/- | PIM | PPG | SHG | GWG | S | S% |
| 2010-2011 | Oilers | 65 | 22 | 20 | 42 | -9 | 27 | 8 | 0 | 4 | 186 | 11.8 |
| 2011-2012 | Oilers | 61 | 27 | 26 | 53 | -3 | 36 | 13 | 0 | 7 | 207 | 13 |
| NHL TOTALS | 126 | 49 | 46 | 95 | -12 | 63 | 21 | 0 | 11 | 393 | 12.5 |
The theory around choosing a player for one game is that they will perform when the pressure is the highest. Eberle did that at the WJC and Hall did it two years straight in the OHL and Memorial Cup playoffs. Unfortunately we haven't seen what they can do in the NHL because the Oilers haven't been close to the postseason.
I did a quick check on GW goals in their first two seasons, and Hall has a slight 11-9 advantage over Eberle. GW goals don't always mean they were scored at crunch time, so I don't put too much stock in them. Here is a quick glance at the GWG from the past two seasons.
2011
Eberle (5):
2:53 of the 2nd period in 4-1 win over Vancouver.
0:14 of the 2nd in 4-2 win over Columbus.
3:58 of the 3rd period in 4-1 victory over Montreal.
3:32 of the 2nd frame in 6-3 win over Columbus.
3:10 of 1st period in 5-0 victory over Toronto.
Hall (4):
19:31 of the 3rd period in 3-2 win over Colorado.
0:23 into OT in 2-1 win over Blues.
15:36 of the 2nd period in 5-2 win over the Sharks.
14:35 of the 3rd frame in 5-3 win over Thrashers.
Hall had one OT winner and scored once in the final 29 seconds.
2012
Eberle (4):
13:18 of the first period in 3-1 win over the Flames.
13:16 of the 2nd in 4-2 win over St. Louis.
12:44 of the 2nd period in 2-1 win over the Capitals.
15:51 of the 1st period in 6-2 victory over Nashville.
Hall (7)
9:24 of the 3rd period in 5-3 win over the Jets.
3:26 of the 2nd frame in 2-0 blanking of the Flyers.
0:17 of OT in 4-3 win over the Senators.
6:01 of the 3rd in 3-2 win over Colorado.
3:06 of OT in 2-1 win over the Kings.
15:29 of the 2nd period in 5-2 victory over Minnesota.
6:55 of the 2nd frame in 3-2 over the Canucks.
Hall had two more OT winners.
CONCLUSION
Both have proven they can score big goals in big games. The one thing that does surprise me is how many have suggested that Eberle is a much better goal scorer than Hall. Eberle has incredibly gifted hands and he's scored some electrifying goals, usually going top-shelf or deking out a defender and the goalie, but it's not like Hall is a plug who just crashes the net and hopes the pucks deflects off of him.
They both are scorers, just in different ways. Hall can overpower goalies with his shot, and create chances on his own, while Eberle has pinpoint accuracy and excellent hands in tight.
Like I stated earlier, I don't think there is a wrong choice, but when I was forced to make a choice I took Hall and Rishaug choose Eberle. Only time will tell who was more accurate, but I don't think there is a wrong answer. The only way we'll find out is when the Oilers make the playoffs, and even then I'm not sure I would base everything on one game.
But for fun I will ask you to choose. We will have all different opinions on why we want Hall or Eberle, but if you respond choose one.
I don't want comments like, "I'll take Hall for the first 58 minutes, but I want Eberle in the final two."
No fence sitting.
The great part of this debate is that by this time next year, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins and Nail Yakupov might have produced their way into the conversation.
Today I will take Hall, by the slimmest of margins.
Who do you want in game seven?
Posting as DSF:
I pick Crosby. The Oilers really screwed up by not winning the lottery in 2005. I blame the whole organization. Hall and Eberle both suck. Look at these numbers.
Crosby 2739, Hall 23, Eberle 22,
Obviously, Crosby the the way to go.
*note: numbers have no actual value.
Halls more clutch than I had thought. I like Eberle. But I must choose the man with the sickest hands I ever saw on a giant. None other then Andy Sutton. And yes Andy I am an expert.
I don't have to choose...........right now both are under contract to the Oil and they along with Nuge and Yakupov will eventually give us 4 game breakers for a game 7 scenario.
That's my choice and I'm sticking to it!
Go Oil!
@Cody anderson
Ebs by the slimmest of margins. But obviously thrilled at the thought of them being teammates in a Game 7, rather than having to pick just one.
Anderson, you lost me after thinking you could lock up Nuge for 4-4.5 a year long-term in the previous thread.
Also, put a shirt on.
Hall. I believe he would actually cut off one of his arms to win a Stanley Cup
Smid. Wait, what was the question?
I'm on board with Sailge. Ebs for the "silk" factor.
Also, put a shirt on Cody Anderson. What a type.
Both
....I guess Hall if i had to choose
Pick the best overall player. Hall.
Yakupov..
Between Hall and Eberle...Hall..
Above all...RNH
@Sailge
I signed in just to props you for the "put a shirt on" comment. Somebody had to say something.
You can't underestimate clutchosity - Eberle.
Horcoff....he is paid almost as much as the two of them put together.He must be clutch....no?
Hall cant stay Healthy during the REGULAR season. Does anyone here think he's going to last in the Playoffs when things get ramped up to a level that he's never EVER played before?
Hall is a terribly good player, but he's been outscored by Eberle every year. Maybe not in a points per game basis, but Hall needs to stay healthy long enough to play a game 7 and it isnt going to happen.
Eberle is Clutch. In fact, Clutch will be officially renamed "Eberle" in the new Canadian Dictionary. Clutch cant be statistically measured, either. It isnt 3rd period, end of game, OT. Clutch just means "When it's needed." I dont care what number is carted out for Hall. He can be pretty clutch too, but he isnt Eberle Clutch. I've got 1 game or 1 period between me and a Cup, I know who I'm taking.
Eberle has ice-water in his veins. Hall is p*ss and vinegar. One's a hot-head and the other is Eberle. I need somebody who can just simply score me a goal and that's Wanye's one true love.
BEIBEREberleWinning all the sports.
Hall. No question.
Eberle. No question about it. If the book can be out on Ovechkin, it can be out for Hall. Add more later.
Eberle
My first thought was Eberle, but I see Hall more in a leadership role, and I think it's important to have your leaders on the ice on crucial minutes. I pick Hall.
Hall, easily. Maybe there's a debate in the final two minutes but what Hall does in the first 58 I think is more likely to get that go-ahead goal earlier rather than later. No need to have those last-minute heroics if those goals came in the 2nd period.
Eberle
Eb's, hands down.
While I have no doubt Hall will be a great player, and probably score more points overall than Eb's, I see Eb's as a more complete player.
Obviously both are capable of the clutch game winning goals, but I have more faith in Eb's defensive play, and ability to get the puck moving back in the right direction after a turnover.
Tough call but going to pick Eberle by the tiniest of margins.
Eberle. Hall ain't helping us from the ice bath.
Hall
Eberle is smarter, less likely to injure himself, a better interview, and less likely to cause a mistake in crunch time. Hall was smart enough NOT to get his shoulder operated on sooner. Give me the thinking man's scorer not the trainwreck.
If I had to pick who, Game 7, to score the big goal: Eberle. History cannot be igonred.
Most likely to score the big goal to win a series: Eberle
Most likely to finish 1-2 in Conn Smythe Voting: Hall/Nuge
Most likely to lead Western Canada in jersey sales, any of Hall, Ebs, Nuge.
What I am saying is I am glad we have all 3, because they all bring attributes that championship teams need.
Hall. 2 mem cup MVP's along with his nose for the net especially in overtime do it for me.
At the risk of having to turn in my Queen City Kids membership card in disgrace, I'd take Hall.
Eberle, without a doubt. Hall would be out with a different injury by the time the Oilers made it to Game 7.
Willis- not sure how you figure Hall is the better overall player. If you mean better at skating 100 mph into the other teams body checks, rather than spin off them like Eb's, then sure.
I wish Hall had half the vision of Ebs and RNH because if he did he would be a perennial Hart Candidate. Rather we watch him blaze around with the blinders on and cringe everytime the other team gets near him. Something tells me if he wasn't an athlete, his IQ wouldn't have him working at NASA.
Eberle aka "clutch" - it can't be taught - you are born with it.
Well Nuge Hall Yak and Ebs should all be on the ice in the last few min if we need a goal... But since i have Hall as my next Captain for this team i go Hall..
Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeease no lock out!!!!!!!!!!!!!! im hurtin enough already
OILERS!!!!!!
Hall, he will charge his way down the left side and blast one past the goal keeper. Eberle is great around the net, but Hall is more involved in all areas of the ice.
HALL. That kid can bring it and deliver it. Sorry Wanye, the Baby Bull takes this one.
Making decisions based on history can prove to be flawed. Show me Eberle's 'clutch bucket', and tell me how full it is, and only then can you say that he's the better player for a game 7.
Having said that, I would pick Eberle - no question, but not because he is 'clutch'. A lot of Hall's play is driven by force (not a bad thing at all), while Eberle does it with a blend of intelligence and skill. So if I had to choose either/or for a game 7, Eberle it would be.
It's been a while since I posted, but this is a debate I must chime in on.
My vote: Hall.
While Eberle is just awesome, and can create his own offense and lead a rush, nobody leads a rush like Hallsy. Nobody competes as hard and wants to win as bad as Hall. He scares the crap out of defenders with his speed, he's willing to hit and do whatever it takes to win. Eberle is one of my favorite players, no doubt, and he's fantastic finisher, and can dangle better than 99% of NHL'ers (including Hall). But Hall is an underated passer and if the shot isn't there he'll set someone up as good as anyone on the team (except the Nuge of course). Hall WILL get the puck into the zone and make sure it stays there. And Hall's wrister and slapper are harder for sure. I don't believe Ebs has the more accurate shot, I'd actually give that to Hall.
But let's all face it, if it were up to anyone on the team, Nuge could give Smid an easy tap in with a second left to go(and towards the end of the year one of Smid's goals actually came off a sweet feed from the Nuge).
If Hall can change his game just abit so he doesnt leave himself so prone to injuries, Ill take Hall. The kid is a beast!!
Eberle as slick as he is will have an even bigger target on his back after what he did last year, maybe its his turn to get all the sh!t and abuse*
* PLEASE HOCKEY GODS DONT MAKE IT SO!!!
Either way having one or the other on the ice in the last 2 minutes of game 7 in the SCF is a cant miss.
It is the Gretzky/Messier debate all over again and without question, I go with Petr Klima.
Ok, that won't work but either of them are more than capable of making someone else the fleeting hero.
I will take Hall.
Eberle was awesome but without RNH feeding him passes I thi k he scores half his goal total this year.
Taking hall
Eberle. Easy answer.
Hall is the better player, easily.
Eberle will have a longer career and likely get more points over Hall in the end (fewer injuries) but in a tight game, with only one to pick?
No question. Hall.
Taylor Hall creates magic every shift he's on the ice. If you are down one with 2 minutes left, it's Hall who will burst through the defense and give you the best opportunity to score.
Eberle, hes just like a silent assasin man he just seems come out of nowhere and get the job done. Hall is like watching a cannon ball heading straight for you.
I have to take Hall. His ability to drive the play forward and create space for other attackers is second to none. He may not score the clutch goal, but I bet damn sure he had something to do with making the opportunity happen.
Don't get me wrong, if I had to choose who had the better shot I'd take Ebs as his 18% scoring percentage is an indiction the guy is a finisher, but once Hall dials in that top corner rocket he loves to attempt, he is going to be lethal in all areas of the game.
Hall for sure in game 7.
Hall, he'll be pushing the whole game, even if he's injured.
Eberle. Sorry, but all those NHL OT and late 3rd period goals for Hall are in pretty much meaningless games. Eberle + WJC (twice). He is cool under extreme pressure. Hall might be, but I haven't seen it at that level of pressure yet.
Hall.
Once RNH enters this conversation I'll take him every time.
Today....Game 7....Eberle (his play making abilities and vision elevate those around him)
Three years from now Nuge.
But Hall still gets the C.
Isn't it nice to have to discuss this? Four years ago (2008-2009) our leading scorers: Hemsky / Souray / Horcoff and Tom Gilbert.
With all due respect to these veterans, the subject question would better be phrased - which pocket knife would you like to take to the gunfight?
Now there are a number of guys that are skilled and have enough history in clutch times (granted not yet in the NHL) that we can have a spirited talk about who "the guy" is and as Gregor mentioned, there is no wrong answer. And RNH and hopefully Yak are going to be in the conversation.
Hall - I see a lot of Glenn Anderson's game there (sans all the off-ice weirdness, I hope). Andy was as CLUTCH as anyone and Hall is cut from the same "pedal to the metal" cloth.
Hall, he creates more offense all around him.
Actually the stats you put up surprised me. If you had not mentioned breaking up the gaem that is exactly what I would have done as everyone calls Ebs clutch for some of the big timely goals he has scored.
If you look at the game winners. Hall has way more that were in 1 goal differential games, more in the third period, and more in OT. Obviously from their time in Oilers silks thus far Hall has scored more clutch goals.
The rest of the game Hall is our best forechecker, and is better defensively. This is an easy decision for me. I choose Hall over any other player on our roster.