LOCKOUT LOSERS

Jason Gregor
September 17 2012 11:31AM

I don't think it is productive to talk daily about this asinine lockout, but this photo made me chuckle. Gary Bettman doesn't scare anyone, or command respect, like Marlon Brando did in the Godfather, but Bettman likely thinks he does. Either way this lockout is an embarrassment to the game, for both sides, and sadly it will likely last for two months.

Maybe I'm being too rational to assume it will only last two months, but if it lasts longer there are a few teams that could lose much more than just one year of hockey.

If the lockout lasts a full season like it did in 2004/2005 then the free agent pool could be extemely deep. Contracts DO NOT carry over, so Ladislav Smid, Ryan Whitney, Ryan Jones, Lennart Petrell and Darcy Hordichuk would be UFAs. Nikolai Khabibulin's contract also expires, but that is more of a gift than a problem.

Smid had the best season of his career last year and was looking forward to carrying that into a four or five year deal. He will easily get signed, but a missed year will cost him more money on his next contract. Whitney is coming off two injury-plagued seasons and would likely have to settle for a short-term deal to prove he's healthy.

Some teams could lose elite players, and get nothing in return if there is no season.

Anaheim: Corey Perry and Ryan Getzlaf could walk. There has been lots of talk that they aren't happy in Anaheim, which doesn't make much sense to me, but if it is true a lockout could hurt the Ducks more than any other team. Teemu Selanne, Saku Koivu and Toni Lydman are also UFAs next summer, so Ana would need a complete face lift.

Calgary: Jarome Iginla has one year left. I doubt he'd just up and walk away from the Flames, but a year off will lower his trade value. Henrik Karlsson would also be a UFA, and some teams could offer him a more realistic chance to start.

Dallas: Jaromir Jagr, Brendan Morrow, Derek Roy and Michael Ryder will be UFAs next summer. These players would likely suffer lost wages more than the Stars would from their absence, but after Jamie Benn (RFA), Loui Eriksson and a 42-year-old Ray Whitney they'd have little offensive depth.

Detroit: Jimmy Howard, Valtteri Filppula and Dan Cleary could test the market. Not superstar players, but solid complimentary guys.

New Jersey: Patrik Elias, Travis Zajak, David Clarkson and Marek Zidlicky could be available. The Devils finances aren't great and they'd likely lose two of these players. Elias will take a big pay cut from his current $6 million cap hit, but Clarkson and Zajak are in line for a raise. We'll see if Lou can weave his magic once again and keep his team competitive.

NYI: A lockout likely doesn't change the ineptitude of the Islanders, but losing Mark Streit for nothing would be a huge blow. Lubomir Visnovsky (who lost his appeal to veto trade last week) is also a UFA, and there is no way he'll be coming back. They could lose their two best offensive D-men for nothing during this lockout.

PLAYERS WILL LOSE AS WELL

While some teams could see key guys walk away, numerous players will not only lose a year of pay, but they will lose out on future earnings as well. Like Smid and Whitney, there are other players in the league who need to prove they can still play or prove that they can build on a solid season.

Mike Smith: He was the story of the playoffs last year, but he's only had one great season. I doubt the lockout will stop GMs and owners from overpaying players, but the shine from Smith's playoff performance will be less bright next July than it is today.

Selanne, Jagr, Daniel Alfredsson, Roman Hamrlik, Jason Arnott, Evgeni Nabokov and Sergei Gonchar: A lockout likely ends their NHL careers, or at least any significant contract. Would any of these guys come back and would a team believe they have much left in the tank after a year off? Doubtful.

Nathan Horton: He won't have to rush back from his concussion problems, but he'll take a pay cut to prove he is healthy.

Alex Semin: Would anyone give him close to a one-year $7 million deal after a lockout? He could lose between $8-10 million if it lasts a full season.

Lower-tier players: Guys like John Scott, Anthony Stewart, Jamal Mayers etc. These guys will likely lose their jobs to younger guys who play in the AHL or junior this year. I'd guess you'd see at least 60 "role" players lose their jobs if the lockout lasts a year.

I wonder how many of them feel the lockout is worth that.

RANDOM THOUGHTS

  • We will need a "pick me up" during the lockout so thank you to Adrianna Lima...Again.
     
  • The New Orleans Saints are the only 0-2 team in the NFC. They desperately miss their head coach Sean Payton. Their defence looks more unorganized than the Eskimos offence.
     
  • Miami Dolphins: Tied for first in AFC East. Tan-e-hill...TAN-E-Hill... I know beating the lowly Raiders isn't a big accomplishment, but they won. The Pats lost to the Cardinals, so clearly they aren't that great. And with all the lame lip-synch videos of "Call me Maybe" the one performed by the Dolphins Cheerleaders is the best and most tolerable. Just put it on mute...

  •  The Eskimos offence is in disarray. They can barely get the plays in from the sidelines. Matt Nichols was the most effective QB in Hamilton. He would be the starter this week if he didn't get his bell rung, and the worst part is that he had them in the endzone twice on that drive, but both were called back due to penalties. If the Esks don't take one of those penalties then the play where he gets hurt doesn't happen. They are literally beating themselves up. 
     
  •  In one of my fantasty football leagues (I'm only in two, anymore is too much) I might have had the worst week EVER. Gates last minutes scratch, 0 points. Chris Johnson, 17 rushing yards, 4 points. Matt Schaub, 9 points. It got worse from there. I have to take some of the blame because I drafted my team, but Johnson, Gates, injured Jackson etc, have got me off to an awful start. Good news is it can't get worse, and my Dolphins won.
     
  • Tough dilemma for hockey fans. No NHL, and if you want to watch the WHL in town you have to support the owner of the NHL team. The Oil Kings have a very good team. Curtis Lazar is a projected top-ten pick in the draft, and they have the #4 pick from last year, Griffin Reinhart, as well as three Oiler draft picks in Ewanyk, Gernat and Moroz. You shouldn't punish the kids by not going to watch, but I understand why some will stay away due to the Oiler connection.
     
  • I'll be cheering for the Orioles and Oakland in MLB playoffs. I hope Baltimore wins the American League East and then Oakland beats Yanks in one-game wild card. I can't stand the Yankees, although Jeter is one hell of a player.
Ddf3e2ba09069c465299f3c416e43eae
One of Canada's most versatile sports personalities. Jason hosts The Jason Gregor Show, weekdays from 2 to 6 p.m., on TSN 1260, and he writes a column every Monday in the Edmonton Journal. You can follow him on Twitter at twitter.com/JasonGregor
Avatar
#1 Old Soldier
September 17 2012, 11:57AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
5
cheers

It is getting harder and harder to take anyone seriously who points the finger at Bettman. He is a lawyer hired by a group of wealthy businessmen to be a frontman and advisor. I would bet a paycheck that Ed Snider, MLSE or any other owner are not willing to sit back meekly while "their" mouthpiece makes the decisions.

So the personal vitrol aimed at the man shows less in the way of objectivity than emotionality.

I also believe it wouldnt kill the players side if they followed the owners lead and kept their mouths shut and let Fehr do the talking. The more we see of Crosby, Selanne and Ovechkin crying foul, the less pity they get, at least in my eyes. It is hard to feel sorry for someone who even after a rollback in salary will be able to buy a brand new luxury home for cash every year.

And as far as the players blaming the owners for the current situation, if you honestly believe that if the owners cancelled the lockout and kept negotiating that the players wouldn’t go on strike the minute they got their last paycheck of the season and the playoffs looming (which is exactly what Fehr did in MLB) you are delusional.

Avatar
#2 I tried it at home
September 17 2012, 12:29PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
5
cheers

This wont be popular, but Id like to say something about Bettman. He's not my favorite person either, but take a deep breath on the hating, and remember, he ok'ed the EIG taking over the OIlers when he didnt have to, and he stopped Peter Pucks selling the team to the states. I know its trendy and popular to bad mouth the guy, and he deserves a lot of it, but he also did a lot for Edmonton keeping the team when it would of been easy to let it go.

Avatar
#3 dessert1111
September 17 2012, 01:04PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
4
cheers

After listening to numerous speeches by both Bettman and Fehr over the past few months, I've gone from completely siding with the players, detesting Bettman and thinking Fehr was a good guy to absolutely detesting Fehr, siding with no one and feeling sorry for Bettman.

Avatar
#4 TigerUnderGlass
September 17 2012, 12:10PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers

Jeter is overrated.

Unless you're talking about the density of his herpes., which is likely impossible to overstate.

Avatar
#5 Rogue
September 17 2012, 12:57PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers

Lol!! Yankee haters amuse me. Every one hates teams at the top. Just like all the Oiler haters from the 80s's. A good team is a good team, regardless if it was bought or not.

Jeter overrated? He is not the player he was 5-10 years ago, but this "overrated" guy is in a battle for the batting title. Must then mean all players under him are total bums, lol.

Avatar
#7 Stuck in Calgary
September 17 2012, 12:00PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers

Great read as usual Jason. I'm happy to see someone out there with the same attitude as myself. Last lockout I understood why, and supported the owners 100%. I didn't vow never to come back, I thought I understood the economics of the thing. This time? I know I'll watch the games when the lockout is over, but my obsession for the game left after the last lockout and hasn't returned. It will only become worse. I purchased the 7 game pack this year (I haven't been to Edmonton for a game in 10 years), but I will not be buying them again. This time I see nothing more than 2 sides unwilling to share the massive piles of cash that the fans and corporate sponsors pay for. Unbelievable. The reach-out to fans by both sides is nothing short of pathetic. Players are to blame for hiring a guy that has a track record for this sort of thing, plus they didn't start negotiations until the 11th hour. The owners are to blame for allowing the GM's to spend like drunken sailors and then blaming the players. Silly, just silly.

Avatar
#8 I'm a Scientist!
September 17 2012, 12:11PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers

Consider myself picked up.

Avatar
#9 ubermiguel
September 17 2012, 01:27PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
I tried it at home wrote:

This wont be popular, but Id like to say something about Bettman. He's not my favorite person either, but take a deep breath on the hating, and remember, he ok'ed the EIG taking over the OIlers when he didnt have to, and he stopped Peter Pucks selling the team to the states. I know its trendy and popular to bad mouth the guy, and he deserves a lot of it, but he also did a lot for Edmonton keeping the team when it would of been easy to let it go.

100% agree. Doesn't make him a saint, but I can never hate the guy because of exactly that.

Avatar
#11 Fresh Mess
September 17 2012, 02:17PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers

Support the golden bears

Avatar
#12 Rogue
September 17 2012, 03:53PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers

Jason;

The "overrated" was not directed at you. It was Tigers cheap shot comment.

Yes, of course they have a huge advantage. Still, they do not win every year. The last major free agent was C.C. They do not get every major free agent. If they want to pay for over spending, they can as it is within the rules of the league. Any team in any league would and should take advantage of the situation, including the Oil.

As far as developing talent, you may be wrong. Jeter, Hughes, Nova, Pettite, Rivera, Cano, Posada(retired) are just a few home grown kids. There are others that have been dealt. Like the Red Wings,they fill in around the edges.

Avatar
#13 Rogue
September 17 2012, 04:23PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers

Tiger...Ah yes stats. Its the intangibles that make him what he is. I can trot out stats showing lots of players are superior in stats compared to Jeter. Your point?????? You must know that stats are not the end all to every players value?

I did not say that Gregors comment did not apply./ In fact I agreed with the unfair advantage. Maybe try reading what I said again.

As for the rest of your comments,classless.

Avatar
#14 Professor Q
September 17 2012, 04:25PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers

@Rogue

He is also a prominent man in many famous ladies' lives.

Avatar
#15 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
September 17 2012, 05:30PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers

It's a good thing that Devan Dubnyk is a lock, a sure fire starter in the NHL. There's no way he would benifit from playing in Oklahoma this season.

Avatar
#16 Muji
September 17 2012, 11:54AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Yikes. I thought contracts carried over. What a mess.

Avatar
#17 Mantastic
September 17 2012, 12:00PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

you have to cheer for ichiro, don't you?

Avatar
#18 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
September 17 2012, 12:07PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

A blessing in disguise as far as Oiler interests go. The Oiler kids would be more men than kids for the 2013-2014 season.

Getzlaf and Hopkins would make a dymanic duo down the middle.

Avatar
#19 TigerUnderGlass
September 17 2012, 12:11PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Mantastic wrote:

you have to cheer for ichiro, don't you?

Ichiro gave all that up when he joined forces with the devil.

Avatar
#20 steelymac
September 17 2012, 12:18PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Hemsky has signed to the czech leauge.

Avatar
#21 michael
September 17 2012, 12:47PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

We are last in all offensive categories.The Eskimos look/are in total disarray on offensive. 10 delay of game penalties this season so far is unacceptable. Kerry Joseph's last 9 CFL sarts he has lost. He is 39/going on forever. Jyles is what he is. He has the tools but lacks the football IQ that a starting QB needs. Nichols? Who knows. I put this debacle on the shoulders of both Tillman and Reed. They combined choose this path. If at 200 pm today the Eskimos announce anything other than that Joseph and Jyles are released I'll be disappointed. The Eskimos need to go out and find a QB that can get the job done long term.

Avatar
#22 Spydyr
September 17 2012, 12:58PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Why the Eskimos did not bring in a few late round QB cuts from the NFL flabbergasts me.

They have no legit QB's at all.Bring some in.

No problem trading Ray but for the love of all things green and gold at least try to replace him.

Avatar
#23 Bicepus Maximus - Huge fan boy!
September 17 2012, 12:59PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

**** the PA!

Avatar
#24 Pajamah
September 17 2012, 01:02PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Next up, is Connor McJesus. wrote:

A blessing in disguise as far as Oiler interests go. The Oiler kids would be more men than kids for the 2013-2014 season.

Getzlaf and Hopkins would make a dymanic duo down the middle.

a 1st line centre who is 20 yrs old and looks 12 with a 2nd line centre who is late 20's and looks like he is 40.

It evens itself out. Getzlaf could pretend to be Nuge's dad.

Avatar
#25 Reg Dunlop
September 17 2012, 01:12PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Thanks for the video pick-me-up, Jason. Do you think the little kid in the ball pit caught chlamydia after?

My theory about the lock-out's effect is this: Canadians care about hockey and feel personally insulted and hurt whereas Americans don't care, in fact if hockey didn't resume until Jan., Americans would buy their cheap tickets and say 'don't games usually start earlier in the year, like in November or something? Whatever, maybe there will be a good fight in the game tonite'. The lockout will have no effect on US fan support. In Canada, however, because we invest our heart only to have it repeatedly broken, there may be a serious backlash this time.

Avatar
#26 Chaz
September 17 2012, 01:28PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

MLB playoffs and the NFL with a little Premier and Champions' League footy thrown in will more than satisfy my sports appetite while these idiots argue over their billions. If the lockout is still going on after the Superbowl, that's when it will start to bother me.

Until then, good riddance.

Avatar
#27 j
September 17 2012, 01:40PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Next up, is Connor McJesus. wrote:

A blessing in disguise as far as Oiler interests go. The Oiler kids would be more men than kids for the 2013-2014 season.

Getzlaf and Hopkins would make a dymanic duo down the middle.

There is nothing positive about young men missing a year of NHL hockey (unless injured). Eberle, Nuge, Hall, MPS, Yak - even Gagner. These kids are in their 'formative' years of development. Each exposure is a learning experience (good and bad). Missing exposures during a formative process is terrible for development in any system.

Avatar
#28 dawgtoy
September 17 2012, 02:18PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@Jason Gregor

You beat me to it. Yes, this exactly!

Avatar
#29 rubbertrout
September 17 2012, 02:20PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
TigerUnderGlass wrote:

Jeter is overrated.

Unless you're talking about the density of his herpes., which is likely impossible to overstate.

Commences slow clap.

Avatar
#30 Skidplate
September 17 2012, 02:23PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Gregor, you almost killed me. Having a late lunch and I read your comment about Henrik Karlsson being a starter. Damn near choked to death.

Avatar
#31 TigerUnderGlass
September 17 2012, 02:30PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Rogue wrote:

Lol!! Yankee haters amuse me. Every one hates teams at the top. Just like all the Oiler haters from the 80s's. A good team is a good team, regardless if it was bought or not.

Jeter overrated? He is not the player he was 5-10 years ago, but this "overrated" guy is in a battle for the batting title. Must then mean all players under him are total bums, lol.

I don't think "overrated" means what you think it means.

Avatar
#32 etownman
September 17 2012, 03:08PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

In the absence of NHL hockey try watching some Barclay's Premiere League Football! Good product with fans that are totally into the sport!

Avatar
#33 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
September 17 2012, 03:17PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
j wrote:

There is nothing positive about young men missing a year of NHL hockey (unless injured). Eberle, Nuge, Hall, MPS, Yak - even Gagner. These kids are in their 'formative' years of development. Each exposure is a learning experience (good and bad). Missing exposures during a formative process is terrible for development in any system.

Who said they are missing a year, they'll still develope in the AHL, won't they?

They're still playing/developing, only difference is in the size of their paycheques.

Avatar
#34 Rob
September 17 2012, 03:59PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

prolly the best video I have ever seen in my life, thx gregor

Avatar
#35 Professor Q
September 17 2012, 04:03PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Why do the contracts not carry over? I would think they would. Such as when Radulov signed with the Russian team and came back, still under contract with Nashville.

Avatar
#36 TigerUnderGlass
September 17 2012, 04:03PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

I have a couple minutes free, so let me ge back to Jeter = overrated.

According to most fans Jeter = God.

According to same fans Edgar Mrtinez was a pretty good player.

Jeter's career (18 seasons so far) per 162 games:

BA - .313 HR - 16 RBI - 79 BB - 65 OBP - .382 SLG - .449

Martinez (also 18 seasons but ran until age 41) per 162:

BA - .312 HR - 24 RBI - 99 BB - 101 OBP - .418 SLG - .515

Jeter is a very good player, but no Edgar, yet somehow Jeter is legendary and Edgar is ok. There are many other examples of players better than Jeter who do not get the attention he gets.

Overated.

Avatar
#37 TigerUnderGlass
September 17 2012, 04:04PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Professor Q wrote:

Why do the contracts not carry over? I would think they would. Such as when Radulov signed with the Russian team and came back, still under contract with Nashville.

You're a professor, figure it out.

Avatar
#38 TigerUnderGlass
September 17 2012, 04:10PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Rogue wrote:

Jason;

The "overrated" was not directed at you. It was Tigers cheap shot comment.

Yes, of course they have a huge advantage. Still, they do not win every year. The last major free agent was C.C. They do not get every major free agent. If they want to pay for over spending, they can as it is within the rules of the league. Any team in any league would and should take advantage of the situation, including the Oil.

As far as developing talent, you may be wrong. Jeter, Hughes, Nova, Pettite, Rivera, Cano, Posada(retired) are just a few home grown kids. There are others that have been dealt. Like the Red Wings,they fill in around the edges.

and your rebuttal was "you're a hater"...well done.

Which part was cheap, "overrated" or "herpes" because there is plenty of reason to believe both.

It doesn't matter who your comment was directed at anyways. Jason's response still applies doesn't it?

Avatar
#39 B S
September 17 2012, 04:13PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
I tried it at home wrote:

This wont be popular, but Id like to say something about Bettman. He's not my favorite person either, but take a deep breath on the hating, and remember, he ok'ed the EIG taking over the OIlers when he didnt have to, and he stopped Peter Pucks selling the team to the states. I know its trendy and popular to bad mouth the guy, and he deserves a lot of it, but he also did a lot for Edmonton keeping the team when it would of been easy to let it go.

Bettman came into the mess that was Peter Pocklington's financial screw up and fraud and said the team could be sold to local interests if they put forward a comparable bid to the Houston oil baron within a couple of weeks. If Bettman hadn't come in, the franchise would have been held (Pocklington owed the ATB a ton of money and was trying to make the sale outside of their jurisdiction while he fled to the states) until the ATB saw tax money from the sale. He has held onto Phoenix for years despite sales offers for the team involving relocation...yeah doesn't sound like a double standard to me(sarcasm).

Sorry but the only people in that debacle that get my respect are the EIG who paid way too much for a wholesaled flagging franchise in order to keep it afloat.

Avatar
#40 Professor Q
September 17 2012, 04:16PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
TigerUnderGlass wrote:

You're a professor, figure it out.

No need to be nasty!

Avatar
#41 T__Bone88
September 17 2012, 04:19PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

I was originally on the players side but after comments from some lately I've been more owners side. Most of the owners are looking towards the future and making sure that they don't run into problems like they did in 2004 while all players seem like they just want to be paid. I get that most don't want rollbacks but for someone like Biznasty to come out and say that is absurd since his team is on the brink of being relocated due to not making enough money. I am surprised that team and player options are not being discussed in the new CBA, it would get rid of the Gomez, Redden & Dipietro contracts.

Avatar
#42 TigerUnderGlass
September 17 2012, 04:28PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Professor Q wrote:

No need to be nasty!

Meh, I wasn't trying to be mean, I was messing with you a bit is all.

Avatar
#43 T__Bone88
September 17 2012, 04:32PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@tiger

You forgot two major things when discussing Jeter vs. Edgar Martinez.... over 1000 more hits & 5 more World Series Championships. I could also mention the multiple Gold Gloves Jeter has as well. Jeter>>>>>Martinez

Avatar
#44 Professor Q
September 17 2012, 04:33PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@TigerUnderGlass

S'all good TUG! I was trying my own joke, but my original comment was deemed inappropriate!

Avatar
#45 Rogue
September 17 2012, 04:38PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

I also see you cherry picked the stats of a great DH in Martinez. How about runs, SB, and the fact Jeter plays SS everyday, unlike Martinez, who averaged 20 games a year in the field, over his last 12 years.

Avatar
#46 Cowbell_Feva
September 17 2012, 04:39PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Yankees payroll is $198 Million. Phillies $175. BlowSox $173. That means the Average player salary is $300K different between the top two, and just over a million between the Yanks and the Blowsox. In MLB money that is peanuts. When you are in a league without a cap, they are just playing by the rules. When you generate as much revenue as the Yankees do, and can afford the luxury tax, then whats the issue? They drafted Robinson Cano, Derek Jeter, Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberlain, Ivan Nova off the top of my head with many high prospects coming down the pipe.

Who did the Blue Jays bring up? Bautista-nope. Encarnacion-nope. Rasmus-nope. Some overrated "supposed" starters...sure. Its the baseball reality. Good trades and big bank accounts win championships. There's no team in the world with their tradition and following-which would explain why they are the most lucritive franchise in the world as well.

As far as saying Jeter is overrated, you are friggin nuts! Tiger under glass trying to compare a career DH versus a 5 time Gold Glover. That alone makes your assessment bogus. Nevermind 13 All-Star games (one MVP),4 time Silver Slugger, 2 time Hank Aaron,Rookie of the Year, and World Series MVP. He has more hits than any other Yankee ever, as well as stolen bases. Many legends played in Pinstripes so that is saying something. A career .351 avg in the World Series. Captain Clutch? Mr.Novemeber? Oh, and one other big stat that old Edgar wasn't able to claim is a World Series ring, and Jeter has 5! And he's still doing it today. I'd say Legend is fitting.

Avatar
#47 TigerUnderGlass
September 17 2012, 04:42PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Rogue wrote:

Tiger...Ah yes stats. Its the intangibles that make him what he is. I can trot out stats showing lots of players are superior in stats compared to Jeter. Your point?????? You must know that stats are not the end all to every players value?

I did not say that Gregors comment did not apply./ In fact I agreed with the unfair advantage. Maybe try reading what I said again.

As for the rest of your comments,classless.

Ah intangibles. The fallback position of everyone without a real argument.

Can you make any statements in support of your position or are you just going to push ahead with this "hater" and "classless" routine? Don't be mad at me because you have no response.

I just want to put your previous comment in context to see if I have it right: Despite that fact that Baseball is by far the most stat dependent of any sport, you believe we should throw out the numbers because you prefer Jeter to Edgar?

Avatar
#48 Rogue
September 17 2012, 04:52PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

You are a funny guy, Tiger. So much anger. :-))

Ask anyone who they would pick to have on their team, Jeter or Martinez. The only ones who would take Martinez do not baseball.

Twist and turn.

Avatar
#49 TigerUnderGlass
September 17 2012, 04:54PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Cowbell_Feva wrote:

Yankees payroll is $198 Million. Phillies $175. BlowSox $173. That means the Average player salary is $300K different between the top two, and just over a million between the Yanks and the Blowsox. In MLB money that is peanuts. When you are in a league without a cap, they are just playing by the rules. When you generate as much revenue as the Yankees do, and can afford the luxury tax, then whats the issue? They drafted Robinson Cano, Derek Jeter, Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberlain, Ivan Nova off the top of my head with many high prospects coming down the pipe.

Who did the Blue Jays bring up? Bautista-nope. Encarnacion-nope. Rasmus-nope. Some overrated "supposed" starters...sure. Its the baseball reality. Good trades and big bank accounts win championships. There's no team in the world with their tradition and following-which would explain why they are the most lucritive franchise in the world as well.

As far as saying Jeter is overrated, you are friggin nuts! Tiger under glass trying to compare a career DH versus a 5 time Gold Glover. That alone makes your assessment bogus. Nevermind 13 All-Star games (one MVP),4 time Silver Slugger, 2 time Hank Aaron,Rookie of the Year, and World Series MVP. He has more hits than any other Yankee ever, as well as stolen bases. Many legends played in Pinstripes so that is saying something. A career .351 avg in the World Series. Captain Clutch? Mr.Novemeber? Oh, and one other big stat that old Edgar wasn't able to claim is a World Series ring, and Jeter has 5! And he's still doing it today. I'd say Legend is fitting.

As far as saying Jeter is overrated, you are friggin nuts! Tiger under glass trying to compare a career DH versus a 5 time Gold Glover. That alone makes your assessment bogus. Nevermind 13 All-Star games (one MVP),4 time Silver Slugger, 2 time Hank Aaron,Rookie of the Year, and World Series MVP. He has more hits than any other Yankee ever, as well as stolen bases. Many legends played in Pinstripes so that is saying something. A career .351 avg in the World Series. Captain Clutch? Mr.Novemeber? Oh, and one other big stat that old Edgar wasn't able to claim is a World Series ring, and Jeter has 5! And he's still doing it today. I'd say Legend is fitting.

Not a single thing you have said here contradicts the position that he is overrated. It pretty strongly supports it.

His Gold gloves are a joke. He is a terrible fielder, and if you spent 5 minutes googling any sort of objective evaluation of that you'd know how ridiculous his gold gloves are. OVERRATED.

Captain clutch? His career post season batting average is lower than his regular season average at .307. You don't even have his WS average right, its .321. Great number, I'd take it any day, but it's a far cry from "clutch" when compared to his regular season .313.

You've missed the point entirely. I never said he wasn't a great player. I said he's overrated. He's got the hardware of a much better player, and people put him on on the type of pedestal reserved for all time great types, when at best he is Roberto Alomar.

I should add that the "Ring" argument is so dumb I don't even know if I should talk about it.

Avatar
#50 TigerUnderGlass
September 17 2012, 04:59PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Rogue wrote:

You are a funny guy, Tiger. So much anger. :-))

Ask anyone who they would pick to have on their team, Jeter or Martinez. The only ones who would take Martinez do not baseball.

Twist and turn.

So now you'll appeal to authority. Can you talk about this without automatically defaulting to logical fallacies?

There is nothing you could say that would make me angry. I just think you have no idea what you are talking about.

Comments are closed for this article.