LOCKOUT LOSERS

Jason Gregor
September 17 2012 11:31AM

I don't think it is productive to talk daily about this asinine lockout, but this photo made me chuckle. Gary Bettman doesn't scare anyone, or command respect, like Marlon Brando did in the Godfather, but Bettman likely thinks he does. Either way this lockout is an embarrassment to the game, for both sides, and sadly it will likely last for two months.

Maybe I'm being too rational to assume it will only last two months, but if it lasts longer there are a few teams that could lose much more than just one year of hockey.

If the lockout lasts a full season like it did in 2004/2005 then the free agent pool could be extemely deep. Contracts DO NOT carry over, so Ladislav Smid, Ryan Whitney, Ryan Jones, Lennart Petrell and Darcy Hordichuk would be UFAs. Nikolai Khabibulin's contract also expires, but that is more of a gift than a problem.

Smid had the best season of his career last year and was looking forward to carrying that into a four or five year deal. He will easily get signed, but a missed year will cost him more money on his next contract. Whitney is coming off two injury-plagued seasons and would likely have to settle for a short-term deal to prove he's healthy.

Some teams could lose elite players, and get nothing in return if there is no season.

Anaheim: Corey Perry and Ryan Getzlaf could walk. There has been lots of talk that they aren't happy in Anaheim, which doesn't make much sense to me, but if it is true a lockout could hurt the Ducks more than any other team. Teemu Selanne, Saku Koivu and Toni Lydman are also UFAs next summer, so Ana would need a complete face lift.

Calgary: Jarome Iginla has one year left. I doubt he'd just up and walk away from the Flames, but a year off will lower his trade value. Henrik Karlsson would also be a UFA, and some teams could offer him a more realistic chance to start.

Dallas: Jaromir Jagr, Brendan Morrow, Derek Roy and Michael Ryder will be UFAs next summer. These players would likely suffer lost wages more than the Stars would from their absence, but after Jamie Benn (RFA), Loui Eriksson and a 42-year-old Ray Whitney they'd have little offensive depth.

Detroit: Jimmy Howard, Valtteri Filppula and Dan Cleary could test the market. Not superstar players, but solid complimentary guys.

New Jersey: Patrik Elias, Travis Zajak, David Clarkson and Marek Zidlicky could be available. The Devils finances aren't great and they'd likely lose two of these players. Elias will take a big pay cut from his current $6 million cap hit, but Clarkson and Zajak are in line for a raise. We'll see if Lou can weave his magic once again and keep his team competitive.

NYI: A lockout likely doesn't change the ineptitude of the Islanders, but losing Mark Streit for nothing would be a huge blow. Lubomir Visnovsky (who lost his appeal to veto trade last week) is also a UFA, and there is no way he'll be coming back. They could lose their two best offensive D-men for nothing during this lockout.

PLAYERS WILL LOSE AS WELL

While some teams could see key guys walk away, numerous players will not only lose a year of pay, but they will lose out on future earnings as well. Like Smid and Whitney, there are other players in the league who need to prove they can still play or prove that they can build on a solid season.

Mike Smith: He was the story of the playoffs last year, but he's only had one great season. I doubt the lockout will stop GMs and owners from overpaying players, but the shine from Smith's playoff performance will be less bright next July than it is today.

Selanne, Jagr, Daniel Alfredsson, Roman Hamrlik, Jason Arnott, Evgeni Nabokov and Sergei Gonchar: A lockout likely ends their NHL careers, or at least any significant contract. Would any of these guys come back and would a team believe they have much left in the tank after a year off? Doubtful.

Nathan Horton: He won't have to rush back from his concussion problems, but he'll take a pay cut to prove he is healthy.

Alex Semin: Would anyone give him close to a one-year $7 million deal after a lockout? He could lose between $8-10 million if it lasts a full season.

Lower-tier players: Guys like John Scott, Anthony Stewart, Jamal Mayers etc. These guys will likely lose their jobs to younger guys who play in the AHL or junior this year. I'd guess you'd see at least 60 "role" players lose their jobs if the lockout lasts a year.

I wonder how many of them feel the lockout is worth that.

RANDOM THOUGHTS

  • We will need a "pick me up" during the lockout so thank you to Adrianna Lima...Again.
     
  • The New Orleans Saints are the only 0-2 team in the NFC. They desperately miss their head coach Sean Payton. Their defence looks more unorganized than the Eskimos offence.
     
  • Miami Dolphins: Tied for first in AFC East. Tan-e-hill...TAN-E-Hill... I know beating the lowly Raiders isn't a big accomplishment, but they won. The Pats lost to the Cardinals, so clearly they aren't that great. And with all the lame lip-synch videos of "Call me Maybe" the one performed by the Dolphins Cheerleaders is the best and most tolerable. Just put it on mute...

  •  The Eskimos offence is in disarray. They can barely get the plays in from the sidelines. Matt Nichols was the most effective QB in Hamilton. He would be the starter this week if he didn't get his bell rung, and the worst part is that he had them in the endzone twice on that drive, but both were called back due to penalties. If the Esks don't take one of those penalties then the play where he gets hurt doesn't happen. They are literally beating themselves up. 
     
  •  In one of my fantasty football leagues (I'm only in two, anymore is too much) I might have had the worst week EVER. Gates last minutes scratch, 0 points. Chris Johnson, 17 rushing yards, 4 points. Matt Schaub, 9 points. It got worse from there. I have to take some of the blame because I drafted my team, but Johnson, Gates, injured Jackson etc, have got me off to an awful start. Good news is it can't get worse, and my Dolphins won.
     
  • Tough dilemma for hockey fans. No NHL, and if you want to watch the WHL in town you have to support the owner of the NHL team. The Oil Kings have a very good team. Curtis Lazar is a projected top-ten pick in the draft, and they have the #4 pick from last year, Griffin Reinhart, as well as three Oiler draft picks in Ewanyk, Gernat and Moroz. You shouldn't punish the kids by not going to watch, but I understand why some will stay away due to the Oiler connection.
     
  • I'll be cheering for the Orioles and Oakland in MLB playoffs. I hope Baltimore wins the American League East and then Oakland beats Yanks in one-game wild card. I can't stand the Yankees, although Jeter is one hell of a player.
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One of Canada's most versatile sports personalities. Jason hosts The Jason Gregor Show, weekdays from 2 to 6 p.m., on TSN 1260, and he writes a column every Monday in the Edmonton Journal. You can follow him on Twitter at twitter.com/JasonGregor
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#51 TigerUnderGlass
September 17 2012, 05:09PM
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I'll repeat this one more time for the benefit of you both - I don't think "overrated" means what you think it means.

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#52 Wanyes bastard child
September 17 2012, 05:38PM
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I don't think Jeter is overrated at all myself...

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#53 TigerUnderGlass
September 17 2012, 05:45PM
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Wanyes bastard child wrote:

I don't think Jeter is overrated at all myself...

...son of a......

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#54 The Soup Fascist
September 17 2012, 06:44PM
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TigerUnderGlass wrote:

...son of a......

Agree TUG. Jeter is overrated. A-Rod is twice the player and a true Yankee.

¤ Ducks, waiting for venomous response from Yankee fans. No NHL. Have to do something for kicks.

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#55 Turnover
September 17 2012, 07:16PM
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Gary's neck was never that long.

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#56 Small town dreams
September 17 2012, 10:25PM
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I totally agree with Rob!! Awesome video!

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#57 Rogue
September 17 2012, 10:34PM
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Tiger;

What Jason said. Whether Jeter played with any other team, whether I despised him or not, there is no comparison between the 2 players. Obviously you know nothing about baseball, or you do and you want to embarrass yourself, for some unknown reason. Of course, as John Short says,"Everyone has the democratic right to be wrong"

Enuff of this nonsense.

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#58 book¡e
September 17 2012, 10:36PM
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Who cares if the players make less. As a selfish fan, I want the owners to make loads of money on the NHL - at least there is a chance that some of that money goes back into improving the arena, the game experience, etc. It also ensures that in 'bad years' we don't have to worry about teams shutting down, moving cities, etc.

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#59 common sense
September 17 2012, 11:26PM
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Stuck in Calgary wrote:

Great read as usual Jason. I'm happy to see someone out there with the same attitude as myself. Last lockout I understood why, and supported the owners 100%. I didn't vow never to come back, I thought I understood the economics of the thing. This time? I know I'll watch the games when the lockout is over, but my obsession for the game left after the last lockout and hasn't returned. It will only become worse. I purchased the 7 game pack this year (I haven't been to Edmonton for a game in 10 years), but I will not be buying them again. This time I see nothing more than 2 sides unwilling to share the massive piles of cash that the fans and corporate sponsors pay for. Unbelievable. The reach-out to fans by both sides is nothing short of pathetic. Players are to blame for hiring a guy that has a track record for this sort of thing, plus they didn't start negotiations until the 11th hour. The owners are to blame for allowing the GM's to spend like drunken sailors and then blaming the players. Silly, just silly.

Two things really hit me: 1.The NHLPA currently want a higher percentage of revenue than all the other N.A. major leagues while being the least significant in terms of popularity. 2.Who actually created and perpetuated the longterm contracts? Was it simply the owners or rather a very clever concoction by agents who got desperate-to-win owners to buy into it. I recall Spector saying on Corey's show this summer that owners have few opportunities to correct their mistake ie.at CBA time because at all other times they are competing against the other owners trying to assemble the best team of players and if they did otherwise the players could complain of collusion. Also as Spector noted, all the agents know what kind of deals are on the table and how to manoever to get the best deal. So it really is a little deceiving to say simply that the owners are behind the crazy escalating salary mess. And really the crazy lengthy salaries are really benefiting the players mostly albeit a small elite segment of all the players.

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#60 TigerUnderGlass
September 18 2012, 12:14AM
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@Jason Gregor

As you like to do, you wildly miss the point to try and pick out what you want to argue. I'll play along for fun.

Let me go through your response:

Martinez was better power hitter, no argument there

Funny enough, Jeter is supposed to be the on-base guy, yet Martinez was better at getting on base. In fact he led the league in OBP 3 times. Won 2 batting titles. Weird.

Martinez had 2,247 hits in 7,213 ABs, while Jeter was able to still have the same career average with 3,287 hits in 10,485 ABs is an even bigger accomplishment.

Jeter had an extra 3000 plate appearances and 1000 hits yet only created 200 more runs. How does that mean Jeter had more ability to contribute?

not to mention he played the field while Martinez sat on the bench half the game.

This is fair, but Jeter is not a good defensive player. Never has been. This goes to my point about him being overated. More on this in a minute.

Also Martinez had his numbers during the most offensive...cough, cough, drug era in baseball.

Makes sense. Martinez aged gracefully and faded away, must be on drugs. Jeter comes back strong at 38 after two years of serious decline, but he's sparkly clean.

...was a 5-time Gold Glove winner...I guess gold gloves are intangibles in your mind.

They are when they're completely undeserved. Pointing to his gold gloves is laughable. This is what I've been talking about. Jeter is a BAD defensive player who won 5 gold gloves because he's Jeter. Then people run around saying he's great at defense because he won gold gloves. It's an embarrassment to baseball and is literally one of the reasons I don't love the game anymore. Does anyone actually still defend Jeter's gold gloves? I'm surprised you don't know this because it's pretty widely accepted that he has no range and got his gold gloves based on fielding percentages accomplished by not even getting near balls other players would have reached.

Look at his production at 38 years old. Pretty unreal.

At 38 Edgar hit .306 with 23 HR, 116 RBI, with a .423 OBP and a .543 SLG. He also drew 93 walks. The only number there Jeter beats is batting average, even though his job would suggest he should try for a higher OBP.

He's a two-time runner up for the MVP, and three times finished 3rd. Martinez was 3rd three times, but never 2nd.

This does nothing but reinforce that he's overrated. Alex Rodriguez has 3 MVPs and a couple gold gloves too, yet the common fan thinks Jeter is the better player.

There are thousands of people out there suggesting that Jeter should get MVP consideration this year. Ichiro had to lead the league in hits, steals, and batting average while putting up 69 RBIs to get that kind of consideration.

Jeter consistently gets more votes than he deserves. All you have to do is look at the list and each year he's gotten votes you'll see players with similar to superior seasons well behind him on the list.

You all seem to think that I am claiming Jeter is not a good player. He's a great player. I'm saying he's overrated because at best he's Roberto Alomar when everyone seems to believe he's Roger Hornsby.

Baseball has been ruined anyways. I will never forgive either Selig or Fehr, the atmosphere that ruined Junior, or the culture that deifies Jeter.

I happen to think Martinez is one of the all-time most underrated players, but I'm willing to agree to disagree on that. I will insist however, that these two players belong in the same conversation based on the numbers, even if you prefer Jeter, and that alone makes Jeter overrated.

Jeter is in the Alomar, Biggio, Sandberg, Martinez category, not the Griffey, A-rod, Schmidt, Ripken category.

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#61 TigerUnderGlass
September 18 2012, 12:29AM
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Rogue wrote:

Tiger;

What Jason said. Whether Jeter played with any other team, whether I despised him or not, there is no comparison between the 2 players. Obviously you know nothing about baseball, or you do and you want to embarrass yourself, for some unknown reason. Of course, as John Short says,"Everyone has the democratic right to be wrong"

Enuff of this nonsense.

You still refused to say anything relevant. You've gone from "you're stupid" to "you're wrong" to "what he said".

Do you have anything at all to contribute?

It's hard to respond to someone who has nothing to add. You jumped om me from my first comment but haven't offered a single piece of supporting information.

Do you see how Gregor offered reasons why he thinks I'm wrong? That's how these things usually work. Your mere opinion that I'm dumb doesn't do much.

With his post there is something to discuss and room to find common ground for conversation. With yours I'm left with nothing but the impression you don't know how to formulate a position.

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#62 TigerUnderGlass
September 18 2012, 12:34AM
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This is the result of a 5 second peek at google Re: Jeter's gold gloves.

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Yankees-Jeter-plays-bad-defense-wins-undeserve?urn=mlb-283888

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/11/10/what-theyre-saying-about-jeters-gold-glove/

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20101108&content_id=16040094&vkey=perspectives&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

http://www.nesn.com/2010/11/derek-jeter-needs-to-stop-winning-gold-glove-awards.html

http://www.aolnews.com/2010/11/09/derek-jeters-fifth-gold-glove-evidence-of-award-gone-wrong/

http://www.mlive.com/sports/saginaw/index.ssf/2010/11/two_cents_derek_jeters_gold_gl.html

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#63 pelhem grenville
September 18 2012, 08:12AM
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Adrianna Lima...still hot even after you got married ... one million dollar bra and all!

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#65 Rogue
September 18 2012, 08:57AM
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Tiger, Twist and Turn,lol.

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#66 TigerUnderGlass
September 18 2012, 10:50AM
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@Jason Gregor

How can putting Jeter with Alomar, Sandberg etc make him overrated. I never said he was the greatest ever, far from it, but if you think he's in Alomar territory isn't that pretty darn good?

Yes. I have never said otherwise.

Overrated does not = bad.

I also never said YOU overrated him. I said he is overrated. You agree with me that he is not elite, but the average fan believes he is. This is the definition of overrated. Our disagreement is not about what Jeter is, it's about what most people believe Jeter is.

But Jeter's overall game was better than Martinez is all I'm saying. Martinez was a better power hitter, while Jeter was more a singles hitter. And Martinez had an incredible 7-8 year stretch, while Jeter has been very good for a long period of time.

One thing I'd like to get straight. Martinez was not a "power hitter". He was a hitter period. The rare player at the plate who will kill your team in regardless of what needs to be done. His higher OBP and virtually identical BA despite his last 3 years is evidence of that. Martinez was clearly better offensively all-around and Jeter will likely end his career with worse offensive numbers in everything but steals.

The only possible "all-around" argument is the DH thing, but Jeter is so bad defensively that he costs is team runs. Better to be off the field than a liability.

Edgar was also great for about 12 years, but was injured badly a couple times in the middle...and the only reason he doesn't have an MVP is because during his best year there were 3 Mariners in the top 6 vote getters.

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#67 Cowbell_Feva
September 18 2012, 11:05AM
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Tiger- It is rediculous to say that his 5 Gold Gloves are really not indications that he is a solid fielder. What? The baseball writers from across North America have bought into this scandle you developed??

To say he is so bad defensively that he costs his team runs and is better off the field shows what you know about baseball. So you can work Google and find some websites that posted with as much wisdom as you have. Stellar.

Edgar Martinez was one of my favourite players, along with Ken Griffey Jr. Both were great players, but Jeter is still doing at today, right now. He's been a winner his whole life, and is a shoe-in for Canton, Ohio. I guess if he isn't elite, and is overrated, than tell me who is elite and underrated?

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#68 TigerUnderGlass
September 18 2012, 02:17PM
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Cowbell_Feva wrote:

Tiger- It is rediculous to say that his 5 Gold Gloves are really not indications that he is a solid fielder. What? The baseball writers from across North America have bought into this scandle you developed??

To say he is so bad defensively that he costs his team runs and is better off the field shows what you know about baseball. So you can work Google and find some websites that posted with as much wisdom as you have. Stellar.

Edgar Martinez was one of my favourite players, along with Ken Griffey Jr. Both were great players, but Jeter is still doing at today, right now. He's been a winner his whole life, and is a shoe-in for Canton, Ohio. I guess if he isn't elite, and is overrated, than tell me who is elite and underrated?

Every one of those links were in the top 10 results for "Jeter gold glove." His gold gloves were almost universally panned. Most of those links I believe were MSM too. One of them was MLB.com ffs.

The best quote was "Jeter's first gold glove was kind of a joke. Now 4 gold gloves later..."

What? The baseball writers from across North America have bought into this scandle you developed??

This isn't some theory I've concocted because I don't like Jeter - this is pretty widely known stuff. Even Gregor just admitted gold gloves aren't exactly definitive evidence of great defense.

I didn't invent the idea that Jeter sucks at defense. He just sucks at defense. He is demonstratively bad and has no range. He can't even touch balls that average defenders bring in. By every fielding stat available beyond errors Jeter is one of the worst fielding shortstops in the majors, and he only avoids error by waving at balls everyone else would be trying to play.

As for your baseball writers comment - I don't really know what you are getting at, but perhaps you should educate yourself about how gold gloves are awarded before telling me I don't know anything about baseball.

I guess if he isn't elite, and is overrated, than tell me who is elite and underrated?

I will do that as soon as you can tell me why one necessitates the other.

Talking baseball with Canadians is hilarious.

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#69 TigerUnderGlass
September 18 2012, 02:18PM
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@Cowbell_Feva

Here's another link for you - this one's from the New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/10/sports/baseball/10bats.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper

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#70 Shredder
September 18 2012, 02:30PM
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This is great! We're talking about sports. I'm not a fan of this lockout, and I blame the players more than the owners, but know they're both playing hardball and waited WAY too long to negotiate. But I might start looking into this site a bit more during the lockout if we're chatting about football. I always wished I could watch more NFL, but had a hard time as I was a hockey addict. Football is winning me over in a big way and I wonder if the NHL has disgusted me to the point of not being able to return to hockey...it'll be hard for a season ticket holder, but what's the point of keeping up with a league that quits every 6-7 years?

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#71 Rogue
September 19 2012, 10:12AM
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Tiger sounds like the Warrior of old. American; that explains the arrogance.

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#72 TigerUnderGlass
September 19 2012, 10:26AM
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Rogue wrote:

Tiger sounds like the Warrior of old. American; that explains the arrogance.

I thought you were joking before, but you really have no grasp of fundamental logic.

Here is a pro-tip: it does not follow from my comment about most Canadians that I am American.

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#73 Rogue
September 19 2012, 02:15PM
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I guess I have no grasp,jest a dum kadaadian hic.

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