Ten Points: Horcoff, Petrell, Landeskog, and around the league

Jonathan Willis
September 05 2012 12:47PM

1. Buying out Horcoff. If there’s an amnesty clause to kick off the next CBA, and particularly if the 2012-13 season is shortened or lost, I have almost no doubt that Shawn Horcoff will be bought out by the Oilers. In actual dollars, he’ll make $6 million in 2012-13, but he’s only going to make a total of $7 million over the last two years of his deal – the Oilers could buy that out for less than $5 million at the current rate of two/thirds.

The one thing that might stop them is if a low-budget team is willing to take on the $11 million in cap hit and $7 million in actual salary over the last two years of the deal. At $3.5 million/year in real dollars, Horcoff wouldn’t really be vastly overpaid, and for a team at the floor he adds $2 million/year in cap hit that the club wouldn’t have to pay for. The dynamics could shift dramatically under a new agreement, but for a team like Phoenix or Long Island, those last two years of Horcoff’s contract could have some value.

2. Why Petrell? One of the things I keep bumping my head against this off-season is the Oilers’ decision to re-sign Lennart Petrell. With Petrell’s presence possibly knocking one of Magnus Paajarvi or Teemu Hartikainen to the minors – both in my books superior players now – and at the same time not adding anything vital (he was the team’s number five penalty-killing forward last year) it’s not a move that makes much sense to me. Particularly since the fourth line played the role of chew-toy to the NHL last year and it’s been completely reunited and revived for 2012-13.

Gabriel Landeskog (Sarah/Wikimedia Commons/CC BY-SA 2.0)

3. Captain Landeskog. Yesterday, the Colorado Avalanche named 19-year old Gabriel Landeskog as the team’s captain, replacing Milan Hejduk. Hejduk, nearly tice Landeskog’s age, relinquished the ‘C’ and will now serve as an alternate. It’s a move that always raises eyebrows, and also one that some fans would like to see the Oilers imitate.

Personally, I’m reluctant to have an opinion because I don’t know Landeskog and I think whether or not a 19-year old can handle that kind of pressure is highly dependent on the individual involved. With that said, my mind instantly flashed back to what happened in major junior: in Kitchener, Landeskog was the 17-year old captain (rare) and the import captain (rarer still) of his junior team. Based on his past, if there’s a teenage NHL’er ready for that responsibility than Landeskog is it.

4. Last isn’t what it used to be. The chart below shows how bad the worst team in the NHL by points (in blue) and goal differential (red) has been over the last 20 years. The advent of the shootout and three point games has inflated point totals, but the big difference is the lack of recent expansion – of teams with triple-digit negative goal differential, almost all were expansion clubs (Ottawa, San Jose, Tampa Bay and Atlanta being the worst of the group). Pittsburgh shows up here, too: their minus-113 rating in 2003-04 is the worst in recent memory.

5. Free agency on July 10? Pierre LeBrun of ESPN (and virtually everywhere else) reports that the league has proposed bumping free agency from July 1 to July 10. LeBrun suggests that the NHLPA might not like the summer window for jobs growing even nine days shorter, but that doesn’t mena this isn’t a great idea. I’ve always thought it idiotic that the NHL has the draft, the league awards and the start of free agency all within a two-week window (toss in the awarding of the Stanley Cup, and it’s a three-week window). For a league that’s turning more and more into a year-long endeavor, putting a little bit of space only makes sense to maximize media coverage. This way, they also get to duck the July 1/July 4 holidays.

6. Attribution is a two-way street. Writers for mainstream publications (often correctly) have complained in the past that new media in general and blogs in particular fail to properly credit them for their material. Some blogs will just grab quotes without including a link (which is discourteous) or without listing the source (which is significantly worse). That brings me to the fantastic Russian Machine Never Breaks, which translated a story in a European newspaper about Michal Neuvirth, where the Capitals goaltender made some overly candid remarks.

RMNB’s story made big waves, and Neuvirth and the Capitals organization went into damage control. Interestingly, while referring specifically to the RMNB translation, articles on Sportsnet, NHL.com, the Capitals’ homepage, as well as elsewhere managed to comment at length on the comments without once mentioning the website that did the work.

The point: failing to attribute isn’t just a problem of blogs, amateurs, and people without editors. Some of the biggest names in hockey media have made the same choice to take material without crediting where they got their information. In the end, it comes down to individuals: regardless of where their material is appearing, are they willing to credit the people they got their information from.

Incidentally, the list of articles above that failed to credit RMNB comes from a recent article on that site – an article which includes a professional re-translation of Neuvirth’s original comments and shows that despite being a “fan blog” RMNB behaved professionally and properly throughout the whole incident.

7. Made by Crosby. Wandering the internet the other day, I came across a reference to Dany Roussin. Roussin, once upon a time, was a pretty decent forward for Rimouski of the QMJHL; he played there with Marc Pouliot and was drafted the year before Sidney Crosby joined the team – by Florida, in the seventh round. Once Crosby arrived, Roussin found himself as his regular winger – his goal totals jumped from 12 to 59 in that first season and he had 117- and 116-point seasons. Florida couldn’t get him under contract, so he re-entered the draft and got picked by Los Angeles – this time in the second round.

Ultimately, Roussin spent most of his entry-level contract playing in the ECHL, then left for France and now he’s just finished his third year with St. Georges of the of the Ligue Nord-Americaine de Hockey (LNAH). In 2011-12, he was the 5th-leading scorer for the St. Georges Cool 103.5 FM. He scored just over half as many goals as 42-year old ex-NHL’er Jesse Belanger, who played 246 games for five major-league teams (including half a dozen in Edmonton).

Zach Parise (rubyswoon/Wikimedia Commons/CC BY-SA 2.0)

8. The NHL is a business – but it also really isn’t. Why are NHL economics so bizarre? It’s actually quite simple, in my view: NHL teams are both businesses and vanity projects, and which of the two is dominant depends to no small extent on who the owner(s) of each team is/are. In Minnesota, there’s virtually no chance that Craig Leipold is going to get a $24 million return in 2012-13 on his $24 million investment in Zach Parise and Ryan Suter; it also seems doubtful that the return on that duo will average out to $15 million and change over the next 13 years. Those players were brought in to help the team win first, second and third; they were not brought in as part of a calculated investment decision.

That’s why the league is always pushing for more restrictions. Prior to the salary cap, players (according to the league) ate up 75 percent of league revenue – because most owners weren’t running their teams as businesses. If the NHLPA went away tomorrow and the free market reigned, there’s no doubt that the rich teams in the league would start the arms race once again and the poor teams would be unable to compete.

The league can’t stop owners from running their teams like fans rather than businessmen. All it can do is make the system so rigid that even without rational financial decisions the teams still make money.

9. The shattering of the NHLPA. It’s worth remembering that last time around, the NHLPA shattering into a million pieces wasn’t just a function of a season being cancelled – it also had to do with the acceptance of a cap. Some players – Jay McKee was one – asked on the record why the union agreed to a salary cap at the 11th hour when they steadfastly refused for months and months to even consider the idea. That reversal blew the union apart from the inside as much as anything else did.

This time around, there is no such single issue. The NHLPA is adamant that there will not be a rollback, but the NHL isn’t insisting on that mechanism. I doubt that the union will stand together through a cancelled season – and despite the bitter news of the last week, I doubt we’ll see a cancelled season – but it seems less likely to crash and burn the way it did last time.

10. Bobby Clark on becoming a general manager. Behind the Moves is a great book, and this quote from former Flyers general manager Bobby Clarke caught my eye:

[As a player] I had a great life. All of a sudden, I am sitting in the office and I would hear tge old teletype going, with the yellow paper; I had a secretary. I remember going home from work at 5 o’clock some days and just sitting on the couch, just feeling whipped, exhausted… It wasn’t like I had been physically training. Even when I physically trained, I was never tired. Now I was tired. I had to try and figure out how to negotiate a contract. There were no rules on that… for me, [becoming a GM] was the first time in fucking 20 years that I had a pen in my hand, really, other than signing my autograph.

What has always struck me about ex-players turning into general managers is how different the job descriptions are. I think the experience of being an NHL player is a great asset for any general manager – but I don’t think the most important qualification for a G.M. is a playing career, either.

Recently by Jonathan Willis

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Jonathan Willis is a freelance writer. He currently works for Oilers Nation, the Edmonton Journal and Bleacher Report. He's co-written three books and worked for myriad websites, including Grantland, ESPN, The Score, and Hockey Prospectus. He was previously the founder and managing editor of Copper & Blue.
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#51 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
September 06 2012, 11:11AM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

I really hope the young guys get hard matched this year and the vets get the easy minutes so some fans can get a reality check.

Obbie, are you trying to say the Oilers should've taken Seguin and Landeskog instead?

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#52 Walter Sobchak
September 06 2012, 12:30PM
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@BurkeTheTurd

Really? What happened to the Oilers and those coach's?

30 - 30 - 29 doesn't lie, Horcoff is certainly not to blame for all of it, but he's not the same Horcoff As much as everyone wants him to be.

Read comment 33.

He's over matched most nights, he can't keep up and is being totally dominated by younger faster better centers in the WC.

The fact three others kept him around is easy to explain.

He was Mac-T's best player for a few years, Renney leaned on him as he was the only Oiler who could play tough minutes, and he has become almost untradeable.

As much as I hate bringing this up, his contract does matter and will come into play and is another knock on him.

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#53 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
September 06 2012, 12:49PM
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Walter Sobchak wrote:

Really? What happened to the Oilers and those coach's?

30 - 30 - 29 doesn't lie, Horcoff is certainly not to blame for all of it, but he's not the same Horcoff As much as everyone wants him to be.

Read comment 33.

He's over matched most nights, he can't keep up and is being totally dominated by younger faster better centers in the WC.

The fact three others kept him around is easy to explain.

He was Mac-T's best player for a few years, Renney leaned on him as he was the only Oiler who could play tough minutes, and he has become almost untradeable.

As much as I hate bringing this up, his contract does matter and will come into play and is another knock on him.

The point you seem to be missing is that Horc is getting overmatched because he's playing against guys like Iginla, Datsyuk and the Sedin. It's fair to say it would be a different story if instead he was playing against Hudler, Glenncross and Higgins.

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#54 BurkeTheTurd
September 06 2012, 01:20PM
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@Walter Sobchak

What I'm trying to say is I would take Horcoff as a third line centre (not as first or second) over some other teams 3rd line centres in the league and probably all most all 4th line centres.

I agree he isn't what he use to be and he shouldn't be getting the ice time he once was. However, he still can be an effective player, with a reduced role, less ice time and playing against other teams 2nd to 4th line.

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#55 Walter Sobchak
September 06 2012, 01:45PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

The point you seem to be missing is that Horc is getting overmatched because he's playing against guys like Iginla, Datsyuk and the Sedin. It's fair to say it would be a different story if instead he was playing against Hudler, Glenncross and Higgins.

But he's not playing against Glescross or Higgins!! He plays against the other teams BEST players, and will be counted on to do the same again!

It's a different story if Hall, RNH, Eberle played against 4th lines they would each have a 100 points but that not reality.

That's exactly what I'm talking about there OB1, he can no longer play that way, so who on the Oilers is going head to head with Thornton , Datsyuk, Sedin, Kane, Kopatar???

He can clearly not play against these players, at least not half as much as he was, he can't check them, he does not have the speed or skill to match what's being sent at him over 60 minutes of hockey!

My whole point is that he can't play against teams best players anymore, this is why the Oilers(Kruger) has mentioned playing him with Smyth and Belanger to take some of he load away, but he's still going to match up against the other teams best players and continue to be overwhelmed.

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#56 Walter Sobchak
September 06 2012, 01:52PM
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BurkeTheTurd wrote:

What I'm trying to say is I would take Horcoff as a third line centre (not as first or second) over some other teams 3rd line centres in the league and probably all most all 4th line centres.

I agree he isn't what he use to be and he shouldn't be getting the ice time he once was. However, he still can be an effective player, with a reduced role, less ice time and playing against other teams 2nd to 4th line.

Yes!!!

That was and is my whole point I was making to you. Your last paragraph. Which I said to you right at the start on page 1 except he's a borderline 3rd and would be a very good 4th. A true checking center he no longer is.

PS- I'm not trying to diminish what he does for the Oilers, but if the Oilers are going to move forward then he' can't be doing what he has been doing.

It's no different then Khabibulin, he's done being a #1, but as a back up playing a different role he maybe he might be useful in a different role.

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#57 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
September 06 2012, 02:57PM
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Walter Sobchak wrote:

Yes!!!

That was and is my whole point I was making to you. Your last paragraph. Which I said to you right at the start on page 1 except he's a borderline 3rd and would be a very good 4th. A true checking center he no longer is.

PS- I'm not trying to diminish what he does for the Oilers, but if the Oilers are going to move forward then he' can't be doing what he has been doing.

It's no different then Khabibulin, he's done being a #1, but as a back up playing a different role he maybe he might be useful in a different role.

The Turd said basicaly the exact same thing in his orignal post as he just said above, to which you replied:

"I can't tell you enough how increadably wrong this is!"

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#58 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
September 06 2012, 02:59PM
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Walter Sobchak wrote:

But he's not playing against Glescross or Higgins!! He plays against the other teams BEST players, and will be counted on to do the same again!

It's a different story if Hall, RNH, Eberle played against 4th lines they would each have a 100 points but that not reality.

That's exactly what I'm talking about there OB1, he can no longer play that way, so who on the Oilers is going head to head with Thornton , Datsyuk, Sedin, Kane, Kopatar???

He can clearly not play against these players, at least not half as much as he was, he can't check them, he does not have the speed or skill to match what's being sent at him over 60 minutes of hockey!

My whole point is that he can't play against teams best players anymore, this is why the Oilers(Kruger) has mentioned playing him with Smyth and Belanger to take some of he load away, but he's still going to match up against the other teams best players and continue to be overwhelmed.

So we want to $hit on him because he's still the teams best option to play against the other teams best?

With any luck RNH and Eberle have progressed enough that they can take on the other teams top forwards, and then Horc can go against 2nd and 3rd liners.... we'll see if thats the case.

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#59 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
September 06 2012, 05:27PM
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Walter Sobchak wrote:

But he's not playing against Glescross or Higgins!! He plays against the other teams BEST players, and will be counted on to do the same again!

It's a different story if Hall, RNH, Eberle played against 4th lines they would each have a 100 points but that not reality.

That's exactly what I'm talking about there OB1, he can no longer play that way, so who on the Oilers is going head to head with Thornton , Datsyuk, Sedin, Kane, Kopatar???

He can clearly not play against these players, at least not half as much as he was, he can't check them, he does not have the speed or skill to match what's being sent at him over 60 minutes of hockey!

My whole point is that he can't play against teams best players anymore, this is why the Oilers(Kruger) has mentioned playing him with Smyth and Belanger to take some of he load away, but he's still going to match up against the other teams best players and continue to be overwhelmed.

Bravo....quoted for truth.

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#60 Walter Sobchak
September 06 2012, 06:25PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

The Turd said basicaly the exact same thing in his orignal post as he just said above, to which you replied:

"I can't tell you enough how increadably wrong this is!"

Turd said he was a very good third liner. then I said what I said cause its true.

He's not, he's was barley adequate last year! With the exception of his PK work, he was not good 5/5 and most nights overwhelmed.

Now, depending on how you want to label Horcoffs line, ( I label him a checking center 3rd line player who played far to many minutes) he will still face the opositions best players, best face of players in which he will again be dominated 5/5, less minutes doesn't mean less responsibilities!

He may see less of the 2nd line players and less PP time but by no meanso is he not going head to head with the other teams best.

Unless Krugar throws RNH out there to get creamed by the others best players, can't see that happening then Horcoff is still unfortunately the Oilers best option.

PS OB1 I am not crapping on Horcoff! I liked Horcoff for what he has done for the Oilers. It's just time to accept a smaller role, a true 4th line role with PK work some time mixed in with the third would be best for the Oilers. iMO I also accept that this is more of an indictment of Tambellinni not being able to recognize what the Oilers truely require for depth. Again IMO

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#61 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
September 06 2012, 06:50PM
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@Walter Sobchak

See he is a very good third line center, arguably One of the best in the league. The vast majority of teams play power vs power now... Or in other words there 3rd line centers aren't playing against the leagues best players.

He's a huge asset to this team as a 3C, if they could build a proper team that would become abundantly clear.

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#62 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
September 06 2012, 07:05PM
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@Walter Sobchak

I also find it kind of strange that you feel he is the oilers best option to play against the leagues best players, yet at the same time state that he is a 4th liner.

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#63 GVBlackhawk
September 06 2012, 07:14PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

See he is a very good third line center, arguably One of the best in the league. The vast majority of teams play power vs power now... Or in other words there 3rd line centers aren't playing against the leagues best players.

He's a huge asset to this team as a 3C, if they could build a proper team that would become abundantly clear.

Trying to explain this in a logical manner to some of the people on here is like banging your head against the wall...it does not accomplish anything and leaves you with a headache.

All of the Horcoff haters want to get rid of him but none have a legitimate backup plan for replacing him. They would rather see the kids get thrown to the wolves against top line competition. Then they can complain about the young guns getting paid too much...we should coin this 'Horcoff syndrome'.

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#64 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
September 06 2012, 07:14PM
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Id love to see a list of superior 3rd line centers.

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#65 GVBlackhawk
September 06 2012, 07:52PM
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Next up, is Connor McJesus. wrote:

Either way you look at it, both fail to qualify for the mentioned adequate category, correct? 6% apart for someone who'll make 5 million less is enough to prompt this change. Even with these so called all important leaders/veterans, the Oilers are on the heels of 3 first overalls in a row. How much worse would it get if they rid themselves of that 11 million in salary (Horcs and Hemsky), is 30th place really that far of a drop from 29th? Hall,Eberle and Hopkins will all be better this season, fit them with that working horse harness on a few more nights this coming season, they'll be more than fine.

Straight up Horcoff was close enough to that combined -65 we speak of. He's obviously not great in the faceoff circle, not at all physical,leaves alot to be desired offensively, nowhere near the perennial Selke candidate.....and he's suppose to lead these kids? If the Oilers goal is to win nothing, Horcoff certainly qualifies as the role model.

"How much worse would it get if they rid themselves of that 11 million in salary?" For starters, the Oilers have a lot of cap space so they do not need to dump salary at this time. This does not help them. Secondly, I only want to see moves that improve the team -- dropping Horcoff and Hemsky in and of itself does not improve the team. If you have a reasonable suggestion for replacing these players, please present it.

"Straight up Horcoff was close enough to that combined -65 we speak of". Except for the fact that he was -23. Why stop at defaming him at -65? Why not just say he was -265?

Horcoff does provide good leadership, whether you choose to believe it or not. You don't have to be a better player than the kids in order to be a good leader. He leads with his work ethic, character in the dressing room, professional attitude in dealing with media, fans, and teammates. His teammates speak very highly of him as a captain -- that means more to me than the diatribe that some fans spew on a blog.

Remember the last time the Oilers went to the Cup finals? Yes, Horcoff was on that team. He is not the lynch pin that will determine future success, but he is definitely going to be a key contributer to the team's improvement going forward.

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#66 Wanyes bastard child
September 06 2012, 08:09PM
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@GVBlackhawk

I like you :)

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#67 GVBlackhawk
September 06 2012, 09:14PM
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@Wanyes bastard child

Thanks!

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#68 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
September 06 2012, 10:10PM
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@GVBlackhawk

Players are brought in for their abilities on the ice, not because they're great guys. If what you're saying is so important, Jason Strudwick would still be playing for the Oilers.

Abilities first and foremost, everything else is secondary.....sorry, don't buy all the other BS you presented.

How close is a team on the tail end of 3 first overalls in a row suppose to be to the cap anyways?......Down with your ideals Blackhawk.

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#69 Walter Sobchak
September 06 2012, 10:18PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

I also find it kind of strange that you feel he is the oilers best option to play against the leagues best players, yet at the same time state that he is a 4th liner.

You mean between Horcoff, Belanger or Lander I would say the options are pretty limiting, I'm saying he's really the only option the Oilers have , that's not a Good thing there OB1! not saying much at all for the Oilers management, So ya, still a really good 4th on almost every playoff team.

As for playing power vs power, thats inaccurate to suggest all/most teams play that way. if the Oilers are in there own zone who are they going to throw out?.....right, and he's getting destroyed time and time again. Most teams will try to avoid even to uneven match up's as much as possible so although teams may start a game this way, it hardly ever works out the whole game.

Again, not a Horcoff hater just a realist. I want him on the team. I'm also not a Khabibulin hater ether but I must be off my head and a hater to suggest he's lost his postion as a starter.

Look, if Horcoff comes back gets 30 to 35 points brings his 5/5 and his 4/5 play up, lowers his +/- to even -10, PK his ass off, blocks another 40 to 50 shots and can do that at 16 to 17 min a game, I will owe you a huge apology. I will buy you a case of beer.

However, if Horcoff has another season like he did, then I get to tell you I told you so.

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#70 GVBlackhawk
September 06 2012, 11:26PM
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Next up, is Connor McJesus. wrote:

Players are brought in for their abilities on the ice, not because they're great guys. If what you're saying is so important, Jason Strudwick would still be playing for the Oilers.

Abilities first and foremost, everything else is secondary.....sorry, don't buy all the other BS you presented.

How close is a team on the tail end of 3 first overalls in a row suppose to be to the cap anyways?......Down with your ideals Blackhawk.

Show me where I said that players are/should be 'brought in' because they are great guys, while disregarding their playing ability.

Horcoff is a decent 3C on most NHL teams. He was made captain because of his leadership qualities.

Strudwick is not an adequate 7D on most NHL teams. He could have been a captain because of his leadership qualities.

See the difference?

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#71 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
September 07 2012, 08:11AM
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Walter Sobchak wrote:

You mean between Horcoff, Belanger or Lander I would say the options are pretty limiting, I'm saying he's really the only option the Oilers have , that's not a Good thing there OB1! not saying much at all for the Oilers management, So ya, still a really good 4th on almost every playoff team.

As for playing power vs power, thats inaccurate to suggest all/most teams play that way. if the Oilers are in there own zone who are they going to throw out?.....right, and he's getting destroyed time and time again. Most teams will try to avoid even to uneven match up's as much as possible so although teams may start a game this way, it hardly ever works out the whole game.

Again, not a Horcoff hater just a realist. I want him on the team. I'm also not a Khabibulin hater ether but I must be off my head and a hater to suggest he's lost his postion as a starter.

Look, if Horcoff comes back gets 30 to 35 points brings his 5/5 and his 4/5 play up, lowers his +/- to even -10, PK his ass off, blocks another 40 to 50 shots and can do that at 16 to 17 min a game, I will owe you a huge apology. I will buy you a case of beer.

However, if Horcoff has another season like he did, then I get to tell you I told you so.

Sorry Wes, but you are mistaken, most teams play there top lines against other teams top lines, check out the player usage charts.

The options aren't Horc/Belanger/Lander, they are Horc/RNH/Belanger/Gagner.

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#72 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
September 07 2012, 08:12AM
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@Walter Sobchak

Why don't you just list the superior 3C's and then we can put this to rest.

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#73 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
September 07 2012, 09:16AM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

Why don't you just list the superior 3C's and then we can put this to rest.

Things that don't matter Obbie.

3rd line centers you can pick up at Walmart during free agency in the summers...... for well under half of what Horcoff is due. Not a core position on your team.

@ Blackhawk, the Oilers have been the laughing stock of the NHL so long you don't know which way is up anymore. You've lost sight on what's important on a competitive club. Agree to disagree with your interpretation.

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#74 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
September 07 2012, 09:30AM
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Next up, is Connor McJesus. wrote:

Things that don't matter Obbie.

3rd line centers you can pick up at Walmart during free agency in the summers...... for well under half of what Horcoff is due. Not a core position on your team.

@ Blackhawk, the Oilers have been the laughing stock of the NHL so long you don't know which way is up anymore. You've lost sight on what's important on a competitive club. Agree to disagree with your interpretation.

Irrelavant

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#75 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
September 07 2012, 09:31AM
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@Next up, is Connor McJesus.

Also, I believe most hockey people place alot of value in the 3C position... and if I remember correctly you yourself have said it's the top 7 forwards that matter.

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#76 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
September 07 2012, 10:01AM
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@OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F

I think that may be changing somewhat in recent yrs. Your top six forwards, top 2 blueliners and possibly a goaltender come at a dear price nowadays. To me the old top 7, top 3 D are getting squeezed out of the picture. That 7th forward and 3rd D'man are becoming positions few teams can spend freely on.

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#77 BurkeTheTurd
September 07 2012, 10:42AM
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Next up, is Connor McJesus. wrote:

Things that don't matter Obbie.

3rd line centers you can pick up at Walmart during free agency in the summers...... for well under half of what Horcoff is due. Not a core position on your team.

@ Blackhawk, the Oilers have been the laughing stock of the NHL so long you don't know which way is up anymore. You've lost sight on what's important on a competitive club. Agree to disagree with your interpretation.

If third line centers don't matter (as you say and i strongly disagree with) then why do you care if Horcoff is 3rd line center?

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#78 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
September 07 2012, 10:51AM
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BurkeTheTurd wrote:

If third line centers don't matter (as you say and i strongly disagree with) then why do you care if Horcoff is 3rd line center?

Must be worried about Katz's bank account.

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#79 GVBlackhawk
September 07 2012, 12:37PM
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BurkeTheTurd wrote:

If third line centers don't matter (as you say and i strongly disagree with) then why do you care if Horcoff is 3rd line center?

If you said the sky was blue, these guys would argue that it is red. Of course, they would not back up their claims but would still argue until they were blue in the face. You know you have killed their argument when you ask a legitimate question and keep getting a politician's answer in return.

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#80 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
September 07 2012, 03:07PM
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If it was up to you sheep, you'd probably be working on an extension for Horcoff, complete with a raise, correct?

5.5 mill per (extensive research involve here as to not offend Blackhawk) for a thrid line center, yeah, you guys have a grasp alright.

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#81 GVBlackhawk
September 07 2012, 08:43PM
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Next up, is Connor McJesus. wrote:

If it was up to you sheep, you'd probably be working on an extension for Horcoff, complete with a raise, correct?

5.5 mill per (extensive research involve here as to not offend Blackhawk) for a thrid line center, yeah, you guys have a grasp alright.

When you don't use facts in your argument you are not only offending me, you are offending humanity.

If I was writing the script, I would assign a fair market value to Shawn Horcoff's services at about 2.25 million per year (using Ryan Smyth as a comparable on the Oilers). I would sign him to a two year term. That way, Anton Lander would have two years to develop in the AHL. It would also buy time in order to find a better option via trade or UFA.

It is not Horcoff's fault that Oilers management wanted to give him 33 million dollars for 6 seasons. Send your love to Kevin Lowe.

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#82 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
September 08 2012, 11:13AM
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All your manipulated number based arguements are rubbish Blackhawk. Numbers manipulated to conform to your agenda, then presented as such. Can you give me 1 element of his game that he performs at an above average grade, besides getting paid.... offense skills,phyicallity,F/O%,footspeed....or his -65 +- overall(5v5,PP,SH combined) in general?

The way you come across here is that Horcoff, and his 5.5 for three more yrs is an ideal fit for that 3rd line center spot. How can you support someone on your team who's taking 3 times what you felt he deserves? As far as i'm concerned, he can't be gone soon enough.

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