This is the perfect time to panic!

Jonathan Willis
October 12 2013 10:59PM

Devan Dubnyk has played four games for the Oilers this season. He has four losses and a 0.829 save percentage; he's probably directly cost Edmonton two wins and three points with his poor play.

What can the Oilers do about it?

Option 1: Stay The Course

The argument: Devan Dubnyk has been successful in Edmonton's net for three years now. Throwing that away over a lousy four-game stretch would be crazy. Goalies have bad runs sometimes. It's hard, but the best bet is to just ride this out rather than wasting assets bringing in a guy who isn't likely to be any better than Dubnyk is long-term.

Option 2: Jason LaBarbera

The argument: Sure, Jason LaBarbera didn't look very good in his first game for Edmonton. But he's been a darn good backup for five years now. Putting him in net gives Dubnyk a break, gives LaBarbera a chance to show whether he can handle the job, and costs nothing in terms of assets. The Oilers' play seems to have improved quite a bit; if LaBarbera can be average (and history suggests he can) that should be good enough.

Option 3: Ilya Bryzgalov

The argument: Sure, he didn't work out in Philadelphia, but this is a guy who was a Vezina candidate not that long ago. Signing in the ECHL shows he wants a North American job, and he should have plenty of motivation to prove he can still handle NHL minutes. If he can be anywhere near where he was a few years back, the Oilers will be smiling.

Option 4: The Big Trade

The argument: Edmonton's goaltending sin't good enough. Devan Dubnyk lets in soft goals and can't handle pressure; LaBarbera is a career backup. The team needs wins now, which means bringing in a new starter. Call him James Reimer, or Viktor Fasth or Ryan Miller, or whoever. The cost will be dear - nobody is giving these guys away and Edmonton's in a terrible position - but this team needs wins now and that means making a trade right now.

My Take

 

The decision was made in the summer. Maybe it was the wrong decision, but a) four games isn't enough evidence to overturn it and b) the cost of trying to overturn it is going to be very, very high. I'd be tempted to go with Jason LaBarbera against Washington, to give Dubnyk a game off and see what the backup can do; if LaBarbera plays well he stays in until he doesn't and if he plays poorly Dubnyk gets another shot. The history of both these players says they're a good enough tandem to provide NHL-average goaltending; clearly the Oilers felt at least that was possible when they made the choice this summer and there hasn't been enough evidence to overturn that decision, yet.

That's a hard decision to make; given the pressures on the team this season it's extremely difficult to see the goaltending almost single-handedly losing games. But the alternatives are either unlikely to be a good fit (Bryzgalov) or likely to be cost-prohibitive if there's any other way out. 

But it wouldn't hurt to get a feel for the goaltending market, either.

74b7cedc5d8bfbe88cf071309e98d2c3
Jonathan Willis is a freelance writer. He currently works for Oilers Nation, Sportsnet, the Edmonton Journal and Bleacher Report. He's co-written three books and worked for myriad websites, including Grantland, ESPN, The Score, and Hockey Prospectus. He was previously the founder and managing editor of Copper & Blue.
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#1 DSF
October 12 2013, 11:29PM
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Jonathan Willis wrote:

If only I'd answered that question within the post.

Wait, what's this I read?

The history of both these players says they're a good enough tandem to provide NHL-average goaltending; clearly the Oilers felt at least that was possible when they made the choice this summer and there hasn't been enough evidence to overturn that decision, yet.

Huh.

As for your other question: it doesn't take much listening to know that my view - the same view I expressed in my last post on the subject - isn't shared by many fans. I wrote this post to try and get a feel for which direction fans want to see the team go.

It's certainly possible my evaluation of Dubnyk is wrong; time will tell on that. But this post is entirely consistent with my previously stated views.

Also: condolences on the retirement of Kyle Wellwood.

When both your major premise and your minor premise are wrong, your conclusions doesn't have a hope in hell of being correct.

Perhaps Kyle Wellwood could strap on the pads.

He likely wouldn't be much worse.

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#2 DSF
October 12 2013, 11:21PM
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Didn't you recently reassure us that Dubnyk is an average NHL goaltender who was good enough to carry the Oilers into the playoffs.

Do you still think so?

If so, why did you write this post?

Mea Culpa.

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#3 DSF
October 12 2013, 11:54PM
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Jonathan Willis wrote:

So far it's looked like a good thing he didn't buy out Hemsky, don't you think?

Hemsky is currently 96th in league scoring and is -6.

Sure wouldn't want to mess with that mojo.

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#4 DSF
October 12 2013, 11:47PM
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Jonathan Willis wrote:

The major premise being that Dubnyk is a league-average goalie and the minor premise being that four games aren't enough to heavily shift that viewpoint?

Well, you're welcome to your opinion on that. You're probably not alone in it.

In my experience, the best way to evaluate goaltenders is to weigh the long-term record heavily and not make decisions too hastily. We'll see if that proves true here.

And hey, if worst comes to worst, at least it wasn't four of the last five games of the Stanley Cup Finals, right?

I guess when Dubnyk takes his team to game 7 of the cup finals and wins an Olympic gold medal, we'll have something to talk about.

Dubnyk was invited to the Olympic try out camp, right?

Until then, keep chirping.

Looks good on ya.

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#5 rocket289k
October 13 2013, 09:00AM
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This loss can't be hung on Dubynk tonight. I was at the ACC yesterday.

While Dubynk wasn't "all world" he was "ok" tonight. He was making the first save, controlling rebounds better and handling the puck with more confidence. Of the 6 goals, the Kadri goal was the one he should have had. How Kadri found the upper corner of the net over Dubynk's shoulder short side I'm not sure. It was a hell of a shot but Dubynk's so big he should have been able to close the hole.

However, the Oilers defense was as bad as I've seen it in years. Nick Schultz in particular was a giveaway machine all night long. He handled the puck like it was a grenade all night. The wrap around goal was ALL Schultz. He left Dubynk in no man's land as Dubynk started to fade to the right side of the net ...expecting Schultz to clear the puck up the right side and instead he promptly gave the puck to Van Riemsdyk for an easy wrap around. The OT goal was brutal. Nuge gets knocked down and tripped (penalty by my eye) and the 2nd D is going the wrong way for a 3 on 1 for TO. Awful stuff.

Smid again was backing in too quickly at the blueline, J Schultz was only slightly better than Nick in his own end and continues to make low percentage plays in his own end. Ference was running around too much, Belov was hit and miss - made mistakes but typically took the body to help him recover. Petry was the best of the Oilers D and was a calming influence when he had the puck (hopefully he's turning the corner into a consistent defender).

We could have had Fuhr, Moog, Ranford, Cujo or Roloson at their prime in net tonight and it wouldn't have mattered. I know the Oilers are learning the new "swarm" defense system but more often than not the Oilers D weren't making good use of the time and space that they had and were illustrating very little hockey sense.

Dubynk needs to play better, he's certainly not at the level he was last year but to give him a 1 is just doesn't seem accurate. Maybe it looked different on TV. But to a person in our section (there happened to be 8 random Oiler fans sitting near me) everyone thought Dubynk played OK and we all complained about the Kadri goal. While Dubynk hasn't been great this season there' no way we can pin this loss on him.

Sidebar - David Perron was catastrophically awful. If Eakins needs to find someone to sit the next game - he's my man. Two absolutely lazy penalties and weak back checking all night long. Giving him a 3 is being generous. Worst Oilers forward by a long shot.

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#6 shaner
October 12 2013, 11:03PM
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I say try Bryz, he's obviously motivated (it definitely isn't for the money). Honestly can't be worse than Dub. Plus you can probably send down labarbra without any team putting in a claim on the fringe nhler

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#7 Spydyr
October 13 2013, 10:23AM
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Czar wrote:

I watched the kid do the same thing in Kamloops, lets in a soft goal most nights and drops to his knees quicker than DSF in a mens locker room.

Can we keep the juvenile personal remarks out of here?

Some of us are more adult, Thanks.

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#8 TDSM31
October 13 2013, 12:03AM
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DSF wrote:

Hemsky is currently 96th in league scoring and is -6.

Sure wouldn't want to mess with that mojo.

But DSF, Willis never looks at stats...he's a pure hockey guy that bases his opinions on what he sees on the ice...so those numbers mean nothing to a guy like him.

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#9 T
October 12 2013, 11:05PM
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Bring in golie cause I'm drunk and want a good golie

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#10 teddydubbs
October 12 2013, 11:12PM
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Stay the course. I'm not buying any of this 'he's lost it and won't regain it' talk. WHEN he gets it together he'll be better for it and we will have spent 0 assets to get an NHL starter back.

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#11 Jmang
October 12 2013, 11:29PM
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I personally would give dub another shot. If that doesnt work. Send labarbra down (assuming he doesnt get claimed) give bachman a few starts abd a chance to prove himself again. If its horrendous sign bryz to a 1 year contract worth 1 mill to compete with dub. Send bachman back down. Run with those 2. If neither get it done. Then its big trade time.

I personally wish we picked up khudobin. Whats he make? 1 mill? but No mac t was too busy looking for face punchers. When gange is back if he doesnt play wing. I could see 4 goo lines. A third and forth line consisting or gordon arcobello yak smyth joenssu and gazdic.

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#12 Serious Gord
October 12 2013, 11:36PM
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Dubnyk has NOT "been successful in Edmonton's net for three years now. "

Several fans and experts have disagreed with the "look at his save %age" argument and now it seems the soft goal chickens have come home to roost.

For MacT betting on dubnyk was the safest - least disruptive - least bold path. Sure, he tried to land a better option, but he hardly pulled out all the stops. He didn't trade gagner; he didn't buy out hemsky; he didn't take a bit of a flyer on Bryz or Thomas. He managed - as did a lot of others - to convince himself that dubnyk was enough.

Four games in that looks to be a bad bet gone completely bad.

Dubnyk could pull out of this tailspin yet but at the very least MacT needs to be firming up options. It would be inexcusable if he left it until the team is five or more points out of the playoffs on November 1. (Right now they are three points out after playing just five games)

Presumably labarbera is in against the capitals who are playing as bad or worse than the oil. They need a REAL regulation win NOW

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#13 Mr. Calm
October 13 2013, 01:44AM
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Where to begin... Okay, first off, Dubnyk will be fine. Tonight he let in six goals, but he actually played alright. Being hung out to dry alot. Which brings me to what I am seeing and why i am not worried... yet. The Oilers new defensive strategy was starting to be visible in tonights game, and its an interesting twist. It is designed to help the oilers recover the puck in their own end, preferably along the boards by out manning the other team along the boards, and break out with speed. So far this young season it works, sort of. It is drawing the opposing team in to our zone as a potential offensive opportunity. the key is that as they pull in, if the oilers win the puck there is little chance of them facing a blueline wall going the other way. a fight for the puck along the boards turns into two oilers, one opponent, then, three oilers, two opponents. as one opponent is bound to be parked near the net, it leaves only 2 opponents up ice. should the third oiler in win the battle, it leaves him and a second oiler on a 2 on 2 up the ice. easy zone access, plus the possibility of a trailer for a chance on goal. Downside is that until the oil become very proficient at the defensive system, they are going to occasionally leave an opponent wide open in front of their own net, and even when they do, it is going to turn the game into river hockey. I suspect we are going to see any goalie we have produce a horrendous GAA this season, but that we still make the playoffs. River hockey can go either way, but My bet is on the oilers most nights in that type of scenario. Dubnyk does need to be better, particularly in SV%, but i think we may need to stop watching the GAA once we start seeing the system work. Just my thoughts. Looks like 80's hockey might have been resurrected.

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#14 The Last Big Bear
October 13 2013, 03:08AM
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I'm not sure if its been brought up yet, but I dont think option 3 is really an option.

After all, he may be tired to play here. Here is in the November month like minus thirty two degrees. And is snow eight months of year.

I mean, he is good guy, and all. But this is professional sports.

Why you haff to be mad?

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#15 Renslip
October 13 2013, 08:29AM
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I'm not really sure how many of these comments are trolls, but a few people here really need to get some perspective!

As to Dubnyk, he's not awesome but no goalie is going to win many games in Edmonton until we see a bit of team defence. There are to many players worrying about their next breakout play before they worry about getting possession.

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#16 T
October 12 2013, 11:05PM
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Bring in golie cause I'm drunk and want a good golie

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#17 Butters
October 12 2013, 11:39PM
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Dubnyk will NOT be an 0.829 goaltender for the remainder of the year. The Oilers have lost to one divisional opponent. With average goaltending they would have curb stomped the Leafs. Not time to panic yet.

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#18 Serious Gord
October 13 2013, 12:18AM
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Jonathan Willis wrote:

Ah, yes - short sample plus/minus, the single best indicator of player ability ever created by anybody.

I look forward to Cory Sarich (plus-8, tied for best among all NHL blueliners) getting his well-deserved Norris Trophy nomination this fall.

I'll also be happy when the lousiest defenders in the NHL - guys like Dan Girardi, Marc Staal, Ryan McDonagh, Shea Weber (and of course Jake Muzzin, condolences on that I know he's a favourite) wash out of the league, what with them clearly being unable to handle NHL opposition.

Naturally, I also hope the Oilers trade Ryan Nugent-Hopkins (minus-7, ouch) while they can and Vancouver probably ought to dump Ryan Kesler (minus-5) too.

You are talking out of both sides of your mouth logically. You can't cite hemskys performance in five games and than rebut DSF by saying that his data - the same five games you are working with - is too small a sample size.

Hemsky is off to a good start. But hemsky could lead the league and that won't offset the disaster that oiler goaltending has been thusfar.

Just as in baseball it's all about starting pitching (today's two games are as firm a proof of that as you will ever find) and in football the qback is key in hockey goaltending is paramount. Throwing a couple of surplus forwards - hemsky and gagner overboard to get that high quality proven goalie would have been worth it.

And because that wasn't done, the only way to get one if dubnyk doesn't recover at least to something approaching average competency in the next ten days or so is to trade a truly capital asset. And if the team is forced into that spot in the days or so it is 100% MacT's fault.

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#19 Serious Gord
October 13 2013, 12:25AM
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Tuleth wrote:

Dubnyk = tony romo of hockey. Choke artist. The end.

That's an insult to tony romo. He had one of the greatest games a quarterback ever had last week and lost to a quarterback having THE greatest game ever. That last pick wasn't his fault IMO.

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#20 Mr. Calm
October 13 2013, 02:59AM
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Garon wrote:

I don't see how Dubnyk deserves the benefit of the doubt any longer. That's two games he's cost us.

Two games.

Directly cost us.

His fault.

We would have won without him.

Don't know how more clear I can be on this. These aren't "poor performances". They're disasters, to the point where you've got to wonder where the hell his head is at.

It's inexcusable from an NHL goalie being paid $$$ millions of dollars. A piss poor effort. I wouldn't blame MacT if he sent him up to the press box for a month and called up Richard Bachman. Stupid move? Maybe, but no more stupid than allowing DD to continue self destructing and losing us games. AHL-calibre or not, Bachman literally could not be any worse at this point.

TWO GAMES!!! Holy Crap! 2 Games Everybody! Ignore the fact that he had no defense in either game! They were both completely and unequivically his fault!

Get a reality check. He is an average goalie playing poorly. Behind a defence that is playing... or at least doing something... somewhere on the ice i think...

I agree with a few posts up. 15 games. by then other teams know their weaknesses as well and you can make a trade that actually makes sense, or Devon shows up and proves you wrong.

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#21 Alsker
October 12 2013, 11:30PM
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With so little capspace left and Miller being a Tim Thomas look a like, QSB had mentioned Raanta on another thread...Ill take his word for it and say we go for him...Next years 1st + roster/prospect..we need goaltending now, make it happen MacT!!!!

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#22 TDSM31
October 12 2013, 11:38PM
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Thanks for the levity JW, I actually laughed out loud when I read, "I'd be tempted to go with Jason LaBarbera.."

Really???..you'd have to be tempted?

Sometimes I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone reading posts on Dubnyk. For the gazillianth time, HE'S NOT A NO.1 CALIBER GOALIE AND DOES NOT HAVE THE TALENT TO EVER BE ONE.

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#23 exsanguinator
October 13 2013, 02:47AM
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Big Cap wrote:

My new favorite buzz word: SAMPLE SIZE

"It’s to early to judge Dubnyk; as his SAMPLE SIZE has only been 4 games this year"

My question is, when can we make a judgment? We have invested ALOT of time and energy with this guy. There is NO way we need to wait until mid season or beyond to make a conclusion as we sit through another disastrous season.

The fact is, he's been average at best his entire Oiler career. We desperately need an upgrade. Dunnyk will NEVER lead us to the promise land.

WE MUST MOVE ON!!!!!!

Tell that to M.A. Fluery's cup ring. This team needs to start playing like a team. Dubnyk can be good enough if he has a team in front of him.

Also, maybe 15 games or so is the time we can start judging him.

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#24 madjam
October 13 2013, 07:49AM
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Why did they rush to send Nurse back so early ? If he were here I bet we would be at least 3-2 . Should have given him 9 game stint at least . I guess only the Flames are that smart with Monohan !

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#25 risto siltanen's shot
October 12 2013, 11:24PM
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another loss and bad goaltending...but i'm tired of the oilers never having a killer instinct or the skill to finish off an opponent. does this team ever score empty netters? a lot less often than getting beat by backups.if arco scores on an empty netter or someone fires a puck 200 feet into the goal without worrying about the faceoff (why if dubbie doesn't). these are the things that keep happening or NOT happening. it blows but i'm not ready to trade gold 4 garbage. let's give an andy moog a chance and see what happens.time to get lucky

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#26 Johe
October 12 2013, 11:43PM
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Just a little more patience guys. We've been through 7 years of suck, we can take a few games of bad goaltending. I say this with absolute confidence- Dubnyk is still an NHL goaltender. Four games doesn't erase three years of solid play.

I'm telling you, this team is doing a lot of things right. Four out of five games we've been as good or better than the opposition. We're getting more shots, dominating in faceoffs, not getting outhit, and all the offseason adds are fitting in well. This team WILL start producing wins. If you want to give up on them this early, suit yourself and go party with DSF.

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#27 Gret99zky
October 12 2013, 11:57PM
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New wife, check.

New child, check.

New GM has no faith in him, check.

DD has a lot on his plate.

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#28 @Oilanderp
October 13 2013, 12:43AM
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Dubnyk will be fine. His history shows this. Just play both goalies in tandem until one of them grabs the reigns.

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#29 chuckcouples
October 13 2013, 01:23AM
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Who's errors have cost the Oilers more goals against this season, Devan Dubnyk or Taylor Hall? Watch the 5th Leafs goal again...who gives the puck away to set up the shot by Lupul? Hall tries a between the legs, no look pass to the middle of the ice with a 1 goal lead in the last 40 seconds of a hockey game.

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#30 Coco crisp
October 13 2013, 04:05AM
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@DSF

You are the most annoying reader on this website. You suck.

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#31 toprightcorner
October 12 2013, 11:06PM
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2 soft goals in last minute of game to threaten a win to go to overtime.

He is guessing, not controlling and he is moving in the wrong direction if he guesses wrong.

Viktor Fasth nuff said

Stay away from Miller, bad character and stirs up the locker room, he's a virus!

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#32 risto siltanen's shot
October 12 2013, 11:24PM
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another loss and bad goaltending...but i'm tired of the oilers never having a killer instinct or the skill to finish off an opponent. does this team ever score empty netters? a lot less often than getting beat by backups.if arco scores on an empty netter or someone fires a puck 200 feet into the goal without worrying about the faceoff (why if dubbie doesn't). these are the things that keep happening or NOT happening. it blows but i'm not ready to trade gold 4 garbage. let's give an andy moog a chance and see what happens.time to get lucky

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#33 Cold Hard Truth
October 13 2013, 12:07AM
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Jonathan,

Do your stats hold you at night and tell you they love you?

On a side note, we are probably one of the few teams who assumes no trade can be made without being ripped off. Probably years of poor management at work.

I would love to see the oilers win, but a part of me wants them to lose miserably so maybe, just maybe, Lowe & co. are given the boot. Call it blood lust.

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#34 Serious Gord
October 13 2013, 12:08AM
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Jonathan Willis wrote:

So far it's looked like a good thing he didn't buy out Hemsky, don't you think?

Not if buying him out and using the cap room and roster spot had helped secure a real number one goalie.

Same crap logic when you point to Thomas' sv %. It's that MacT didn't try all of the more bold options that has us in this mess.

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#35 **
October 13 2013, 12:35AM
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I disagree that Dubnky has been successful here the past three years. If I am not mistaken he has never been above .500 in wins/losses.

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#36 TDSM31
October 13 2013, 12:38AM
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@Serious Gord

"You are talking out of both sides of your mouth logically. You can't cite hemskys performance in five games and than rebut DSF by saying that his data - the same five games you are working with - is too small a sample size."

Concur 100%. Willis does this at a greater rate than Dubnyk lets in softies.

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#37 Dave
October 13 2013, 09:10AM
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Maybe call up Ryan Jones . Every bit helps.

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#38 Quicksilver ballet
October 13 2013, 10:01AM
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Wow, good to see so many newcomers on the reality band wagon.

More than a few here have been saying this about Dubnyk for a couple years already. Yesterdays troll has become todays realist.

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#39 TM8Trent
October 12 2013, 11:17PM
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I would play Labarbera until he costs the Oilers the game. Dubnyk is the sole reason the Oilers are not 3-2 right now.

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#40 Tuleth
October 13 2013, 12:22AM
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Dubnyk = tony romo of hockey. Choke artist. The end.

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#41 #ThereGoesTheOilers
October 13 2013, 12:33AM
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Relax, Dubnyk is having a stretch so I say let Labarbera have a go.

Dub has been good in the past. Even great goaltenders have moments that are cringe-worthy. Ya'll seen how Lundqvist and Biron can't stop a beachball lately?

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#42 Garon
October 13 2013, 02:49AM
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I don't see how Dubnyk deserves the benefit of the doubt any longer. That's two games he's cost us.

Two games.

Directly cost us.

His fault.

We would have won without him.

Don't know how more clear I can be on this. These aren't "poor performances". They're disasters, to the point where you've got to wonder where the hell his head is at.

It's inexcusable from an NHL goalie being paid $$$ millions of dollars. A piss poor effort. I wouldn't blame MacT if he sent him up to the press box for a month and called up Richard Bachman. Stupid move? Maybe, but no more stupid than allowing DD to continue self destructing and losing us games. AHL-calibre or not, Bachman literally could not be any worse at this point.

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#43 Garon
October 13 2013, 03:17AM
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"TWO GAMES!!! Holy Crap! 2 Games Everybody! Ignore the fact that he had no defense in either game!"

Actually, I'm being generous. Because he was bad to mediocre the other games as well. But I can't honestly claim that he lost them for us.

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#44 Zamboni Driver
October 12 2013, 11:25PM
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I disagree with every bit of this, ESPECIALLY the part about not playing him next game.

And I'm one who thinks Dubnyk is a borderline backup on 25 (at least) teams in the NHL.

IF you have decided this guy is your #1 you need to go back to him.

And God help us all.

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#46 TDSM31
October 13 2013, 12:27AM
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Jmang wrote:

I personally would give dub another shot. If that doesnt work. Send labarbra down (assuming he doesnt get claimed) give bachman a few starts abd a chance to prove himself again. If its horrendous sign bryz to a 1 year contract worth 1 mill to compete with dub. Send bachman back down. Run with those 2. If neither get it done. Then its big trade time.

I personally wish we picked up khudobin. Whats he make? 1 mill? but No mac t was too busy looking for face punchers. When gange is back if he doesnt play wing. I could see 4 goo lines. A third and forth line consisting or gordon arcobello yak smyth joenssu and gazdic.

If Dubnyk sucks again next game send LaBarbera down??? Holy sh*t I AM in the Twilight Zone.

Avatar
#47 The Oilers Shot Clock
October 13 2013, 12:39AM
Trash it!
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trashes
Cheers
12
cheers

Send him to OKC. Let him clear waivers. Tell him he can rediscover his game at the expense of their record. If he doesnt clear, no problem, we use that money on something new and shiny.

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#48 Big Cap
October 13 2013, 03:06AM
Trash it!
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trashes
Cheers
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Mr. Calm wrote:

TWO GAMES!!! Holy Crap! 2 Games Everybody! Ignore the fact that he had no defense in either game! They were both completely and unequivically his fault!

Get a reality check. He is an average goalie playing poorly. Behind a defence that is playing... or at least doing something... somewhere on the ice i think...

I agree with a few posts up. 15 games. by then other teams know their weaknesses as well and you can make a trade that actually makes sense, or Devon shows up and proves you wrong.

15 games from now?? At this pace of our Goaltending status, we wont have to worry about the Oilers even contending for a playoff spot as we will be history!

The Oilers defence has been average in front of Dubnyk this season, but the Offence and goals for have been way above average.

How many years does this DD get to prove himself? 4 games into it this year, is just another SAMPLE SIZE of his entire Oiler career.

Avatar
#50 Zamboni Driver
October 12 2013, 11:36PM
Trash it!
5
trashes
Cheers
33
cheers

I'm also profoundly disappointed anyone 'trashed' the loaded guy who wants a good golie.

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