Would Jake Gardiner be a good fit for Edmonton?

Jonathan Willis
October 09 2013 09:47AM

So the Jake Gardiner rumours have started up again. CBC’s Elliotte Friedman reports that the 23-year-old defenceman is a topic of conversation between the Leafs and other NHL teams, and given his difficulties getting ice-time from Toronto head coach Randy Carlyle that makes a certain amount of sense.

Does it make sense for the Oilers to be interested?

The Edmonton End

It just might make sense for the Oilers.

Some would argue that, because the Oilers have approximately a million defencemen split between the NHL and the AHL. And they might have a point: while the Oilers’ left side defence is relatively weak at the moment, prospects like Darnell Nurse and Oscar Klefbom and Martin Marincin all play the position. Given enough time, things should work themselves out, and as to the interim that’s what Ladislav Smid and Nick Schultz and Andrew Ference are for.

The case for is pretty straight-forward, though: Gardiner not only has strong potential, but moved out of Carlyle’s system it’s not crazy to think he’s a solid top-four option right now. Gardiner had a solid NHL rookie campaign in 2011-12, playing 21:35 per game for Toronto. Last year he had to wait for his shot, but he was close to the point-per-game mark in the AHL and delivered strong two-way play in 12 regular season games with the Maple Leafs and six more in the playoffs. This is a guy who is ready for a significant role now, and he certainly fits Craig MacTavish’s vision of a mobile defence corps that can also move the puck.

The Toronto End

Here’s how Elliotte Friedman assessed the return the Leafs might be looking for in his report:

If the Maple Leafs do decide to do it, it's going to be for a young asset or assets. So, you have to look at teams with talented young players.

James Mirtle of the Globe and Mail wrote on this topic too. The full article is here, but the gist of the argument is that the Leafs aren’t really a Randy Carlyle team on defence because they lack both physical players and shutdown types. Unfortunately for Toronto, they don’t really have the money to add that kind of player, so instead they have to settle for youth.

A Trade?

Toronto still needs defenders, and Edmonton would need to move some out, but the problem is that aside from Nurse (who can reasonably be excluded from trade discussions) they don’t exactly have a bunch of physical shutdown types they can move; David Musil might be the only guy who qualifies and he likely isn’t good enough to be the centerpiece of a trade with the Leafs. If it’s a Gardiner-specific issue, the Oilers could offer a bigger guy like Martin Marincin (who has a lot of the same skills) or unsigned defender Dillon Simpson, but these are ‘more of the same’ type moves. If not for the money, a guy like Nick Schultz might appeal (as might Ladislav Smid, though the Oilers may prefer to hang on to him), but perhaps that could be worked around if the Oilers took back a contract (such as Nikolai Kulemin).

Still, it’s hard to construct a plausible scenario that would appeal to both teams, so while it might make sense for the Oilers to be interested it’s difficult to see how they get a deal done.

74b7cedc5d8bfbe88cf071309e98d2c3
Jonathan Willis is Managing Editor of the Nation Network. He also currently writes for the Edmonton Journal's Cult of Hockey, Grantland, and Hockey Prospectus. His work has appeared at theScore, ESPN and Puck Daddy. He was previously founder and managing editor of Copper & Blue. Contact him at jonathan (dot) willis (at) live (dot) ca.
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#51 madjam
October 09 2013, 01:23PM
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Oilers trying to get Weber here , but negotiations are tenuous as he does not know Weber or not he wants to play here . When might OKC get a victory ? 0-2 .

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#52 Freewheelinng Freddie
October 09 2013, 01:23PM
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No more soft players. We need some nastiness on the backend .Musil and a third that's it Toronto. Quit breathing in that smoke from mayor Ford.

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#53 vetinari
October 09 2013, 01:27PM
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Like everything else in life, the answer to whether we should add Jake Gardiner to the mix is... it depends on the price.

I would at least talk to Toronto but insist that they would have to take back at least one defenceman (Potter? N. Schultz?) and at least another player in any trade. Preferably the parameters of the trade would be a 3 (us) for 2 (them) which would let us fill another roster hole at the same time (depth centre?) and reduce our overall number of NHL contracts. And hands off our Yak-- he's not going anywhere!

Philly and Buffalo are starting slow right now and MacT's time would be better spent knocking on those doors and trying to free up better "top-end" talent.

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#54 washed up
October 09 2013, 01:33PM
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Yak to Nashville for Weber,Seth jones, and Rinne. Pull the trigger MacT.

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#55 2004Z06
October 09 2013, 01:39PM
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Quicksilver ballet wrote:

While we're talking Toronto...

How was it Kessel got an 8 yr deal when that was supposedly limited to teams whom originally drafted the player? Thought he was limited to 7 since he was drafted by Boston and not Toronto.

Was wondering this myself.

As for Gardiner, don't be surprised if he ends up in Calgary.

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#56 Will
October 09 2013, 01:39PM
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Without going over to the Leafs message boards, I can actually hear there fans rejecting the idea of Yak for Gardiner. Hilarious.

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#57 washed up
October 09 2013, 01:43PM
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What! 2 trash's for my Awsome trade idea, must be flames fans. I guess you could throw in Omark and labarbra,to even things out.

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#58 Cody anderson
October 09 2013, 02:14PM
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madjam wrote:

Gardiner can be part of trade for Yak only if Reimer or Bernier are included . Dump Lababarra in package .

This would still be a horrible trade. Yak could be an elite talent that may be our best natural goal scorer, and you would consider trading him for a 2nd or 3rd pairing dman that is soft and a goalie that is likely not an upgrade on Dubnyk?

Not even close.

If you were trading a high end forward for him it would be Hemsky. Even then I don't think Gardner would be considered much of an upgrade in 2 years over what we have in the system.

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#59 oilredemption
October 09 2013, 02:16PM
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Now, teams can sign new players to a maximum seven years; re-sign their own players (those who played the full previous season) to a maximum eight-year deal.

So interesting enough the new CBA didnt get rid of what they wanted to with these ridiculous contracts. But yes Kessel deal is legit because he played withe Maple Leafs all of last season.

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nhl/news/20130106/new-nhl-cba-who-gets-what/#ixzz2hG2ImwdR

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#60 pkam
October 09 2013, 02:17PM
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washed up wrote:

What! 2 trash's for my Awsome trade idea, must be flames fans. I guess you could throw in Omark and labarbra,to even things out.

David Poile has to be heavily stoned to agree to that trade.

And even Poile agree to that trade, we don't have enough salary cap.

Yak and Jones will even out. Weber and Rinne total about 15M. Omark and Labarbera total 1.6M, we need to add at least 13M to stay under the cap. We will need to throw in Hemsky (5M), Gagner (4.8M), then N. Schultz or Smid (3.5M) as well, just to make your trade proposal to be legal.

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#61 Dog Train
October 09 2013, 02:20PM
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When a player like Jake Gardiner might be available, Mactvish needs to at least kick the tires. I don't see a deal to be made there because both teams are so close to the cap. Toronto would be stupid to get rid of Gardiner, especially with their goofball captain not having a contract for next season. If Gardiner is dealt, my guess is it will be in the offseason.

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#62 Quicksilver ballet
October 09 2013, 02:29PM
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@oilredemption

Thank you sir.

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#63 oilerjed
October 09 2013, 02:30PM
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Its amazing how the speculation of one dude(MacKenzie) has fueled at least 30 different sports sections today. And all of them quoting him as if he had some real insight into the matter. MacT is looking for a #1?! No 5h1t. The TSN self fulfilling prophesizing is out of control. The days of sports reporting have been replaced by sports editorials much to the dismay of reality.

And to anyone suggesting we trade YAK for anything less then A proven top 10 goal scorer in his mid 20s is assssinine. He skates like the wind, laser beam shot and is starting to take some real nice runs at people. I say move him to the top line and move Hemsky and Ebs down a notch. In Yak city the beer is cheap and girls are friendly right?

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#64 washed up
October 09 2013, 02:35PM
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pkam wrote:

David Poile has to be heavily stoned to agree to that trade.

And even Poile agree to that trade, we don't have enough salary cap.

Yak and Jones will even out. Weber and Rinne total about 15M. Omark and Labarbera total 1.6M, we need to add at least 13M to stay under the cap. We will need to throw in Hemsky (5M), Gagner (4.8M), then N. Schultz or Smid (3.5M) as well, just to make your trade proposal to be legal.

Not really. I think the oilers have about 5 mil in cap space. So lets throw in Gagner, and Shultz. Keep Hemmer and offer him a contact extension at the end of the year. Arcobello can be second line center. Switch Labrabra for Dubby. Good to go.

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#65 washed up
October 09 2013, 02:37PM
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@oilerjed

What team would trade a Top 10 goal scorer for Yakupov?

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#66 Wonger
October 09 2013, 02:42PM
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BIG JOHN SCOTT would be a better fit than LITTLE dafodil JAKE GARDINER!

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#67 pkam
October 09 2013, 02:42PM
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washed up wrote:

Not really. I think the oilers have about 5 mil in cap space. So lets throw in Gagner, and Shultz. Keep Hemmer and offer him a contact extension at the end of the year. Arcobello can be second line center. Switch Labrabra for Dubby. Good to go.

We have about 5M because Gagner is on IR. Once Gagner returns, we will have around 1M left in cap space.

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#68 Sidney Frosby
October 09 2013, 02:43PM
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@washed up

Yaroslav lokomotiv

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#69 kawi460
October 09 2013, 02:44PM
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Might be just me, but IMO the Oilers need to get a tough physical shutdown dman that brings size and can play the game. It would be a massive trade to get a Weber/Chara here. I wouldn't mind trying to acquire a Gudbranson, Cowen, Oleskiak or Tinordi type of player. Don't know what the cost would be. To a cheaper cost maybe a Taylor Doherty.

The oilers need to get better defensively and intimidate with a massive body that plays physical with a bit of puck moving skill might be more important than acquiring another small soft puck moving dman.

Suttons presence seems missed on the roster

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#70 kawi460
October 09 2013, 02:45PM
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@Wonger

He can't skate or play the game... why do you think he got moved to LW?? Now he plays 3 mins a night

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#71 oilerjed
October 09 2013, 02:46PM
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washed up wrote:

What team would trade a Top 10 goal scorer for Yakupov?

Not sure, my point is that is all I would take for him. There is a very good chance that in the next 2-3 years he will be on that list.

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#72 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
October 09 2013, 02:47PM
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I would trade for Pronger. At this point in time, he can't remember why he left here in the first place!

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#73 Quicksilver ballet
October 09 2013, 02:48PM
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@washed up

I thought your first effort (Shea Weber) was just cloaked sarcasm. I didn't take into consideration you were being serious.

Have at'er dude. You've come to the right place...

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#74 washed up
October 09 2013, 02:49PM
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@pkam

I always thought players had to be on LTIR for a team to get the cap relief.

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#75 oilerjed
October 09 2013, 02:51PM
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pkam wrote:

We have about 5M because Gagner is on IR. Once Gagner returns, we will have around 1M left in cap space.

And forget the fact that this would mean that we are giving up on a 24 year old player that is already less then 200pts behind hemsky and catching up quick. With no injury history mind you.

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#76 washed up
October 09 2013, 02:56PM
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@Quicksilver ballet

Total sarcasm. 90% of the comments on this site are mind boggling. Although there are some on here that make some really good points. It's just funny how lots want to change the dynamic of the team because there is to much of the same thing, but as soon as someone puts one of the skilled forwards not named Omark in a trade, said person must be on crack.

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#77 pkam
October 09 2013, 03:08PM
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washed up wrote:

I always thought players had to be on LTIR for a team to get the cap relief.

That is what I think too but I remember the Oilers have about 1.3M when started the training camp, and then we claimed McIntyre and Gazdic off waiver, we sent Larsen to the minors which free up 925k, but our cap should be around 1M.

If Gagner's salary is not taken off our salary cap, I have no idea where those 4M+ is coming from.

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#78 washed up
October 09 2013, 03:10PM
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oilerjed wrote:

And forget the fact that this would mean that we are giving up on a 24 year old player that is already less then 200pts behind hemsky and catching up quick. With no injury history mind you.

I don't know how anybody could think that signing Gagner to an extension was a good move for the Oilers. Total stupidity on MacT's part.

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#79 916oiler
October 09 2013, 03:10PM
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The Oilers Shot Clock wrote:

If Yak was on the table, we could get a lot more than that. If a gun was to my head and I had to trade the kid, I'd send him to Washington for Carlson and Wilson. Carlson is locked in at 3.9 untill 17/18 without a no trade clause. I would consider that. Washington would consider that.

You're missing the point of my statement. It was that Yakupov for Gardiner would be a severely mis-balanced trade. The Kessel for Petry part was an analogy for how bad it theoretically would be. That said, I do not agree the Carlson/Wilson idea either; keep Yak.

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#80 washed up
October 09 2013, 03:14PM
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@pkam

Not sure, just got the number off cap geek.

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#81 oilerjed
October 09 2013, 03:18PM
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washed up wrote:

I don't know how anybody could think that signing Gagner to an extension was a good move for the Oilers. Total stupidity on MacT's part.

What was wrong with the signing? If we hadnt signed Gags who would you have replaced him with?

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#82 pkam
October 09 2013, 03:20PM
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washed up wrote:

Not sure, just got the number off cap geek.

The number for Oilers at capgeek before the training camp is about 1.3M below cap. So what have we done since training camp to lower our salary by about 4M?

I can only think of 2 possibilities, bonus cushion or Gagner's salary.

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#83 washed up
October 09 2013, 03:38PM
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oilerjed wrote:

What was wrong with the signing? If we hadnt signed Gags who would you have replaced him with?

Grabovski. Does everything Gagner does, and would have cost 1.8mil less.

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#84 pkam
October 09 2013, 03:57PM
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washed up wrote:

Grabovski. Does everything Gagner does, and would have cost 1.8mil less.

Didn't the Leafs sign Grabovski to 5.5M, even 2 years ago? Gagner had 65 pts (prorated at 82 games) last season. Did Grabovski has any year more than 60 pts? If Gagner's 4.8M contract is stupid, how do you describe Grabovski's 5.5M contract?

Grabovski was a Leafs when we signed Gagner. Without a crystal ball, how do we know for sure Leafs will waive him? Do you really think the Leafs will waive him if they failed to sign Bozak? Hindsight is easy, isn't it?

If the Leafs didn't waive him, are you going to trade Gagner for him?

Even you believe the Leafs is going to waive him, how do you know for sure he will sign with us at 3.0M?

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#85 madjam
October 09 2013, 04:03PM
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Hall, Eberle , Gagner , Petry ,second round pick and Dubnyk for Toews , Keith , Seabrooke and good old Khabby back . Now to find a number one goalie .

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#86 OilClog
October 09 2013, 04:05PM
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Yakupov.. If Yakupov gets traded I hand in my Oilers Lifer Club Card. I've defended this team against anyone that has ever said an negative unjustified non sensible derogatory word. But if YakCity gets sent out of town, my 31years have been betrayed. Only 3 players I would trade Yakupov for. Crosby, Stamkos, Bill Ranford 1990. All impossible!

I'd have Perron or Ebs middle the 2nd line until 89's return. Nuge Hall Hemsky Ebs Perron Yak

You find some other way to acquire the "pronger" you don't trade a #1 pick to do it no matter what. If you do you should be shot.

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#87 pkam
October 09 2013, 04:08PM
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oilerjed wrote:

And forget the fact that this would mean that we are giving up on a 24 year old player that is already less then 200pts behind hemsky and catching up quick. With no injury history mind you.

Seriously, if I can trade Yak, Omark, Labarbera, Gagner, Hemsky plus N. Schulta or Smid for Jones, Weber and rinne, I'll do it in a heart beat.

But that is not my point, I just want to point out that "washed up" trade idea doesn't work cap wise.

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#88 washed up
October 09 2013, 04:11PM
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pkam wrote:

Didn't the Leafs sign Grabovski to 5.5M, even 2 years ago? Gagner had 65 pts (prorated at 82 games) last season. Did Grabovski has any year more than 60 pts? If Gagner's 4.8M contract is stupid, how do you describe Grabovski's 5.5M contract?

Grabovski was a Leafs when we signed Gagner. Without a crystal ball, how do we know for sure Leafs will waive him? Do you really think the Leafs will waive him if they failed to sign Bozak? Hindsight is easy, isn't it?

If the Leafs didn't waive him, are you going to trade Gagner for him?

Even you believe the Leafs is going to waive him, how do you know for sure he will sign with us at 3.0M?

Grabovski, got bought out around the 4th of July. Gagner didn't sign his extension until the end of July. I'm just using the number he signed in Washington. P.S, no way Gagner gets 65 points in a season.

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#89 washed up
October 09 2013, 04:12PM
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@madjam

I like your trade proposal. BOLD

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#90 Mark
October 09 2013, 04:14PM
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2004Z06 wrote:

Was wondering this myself.

As for Gardiner, don't be surprised if he ends up in Calgary.

Teams can give a term of 8 years if they own his rights. He doesn't have to be drafted by the team hes with to qualify for the longer term

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#91 washed up
October 09 2013, 04:16PM
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OilClog wrote:

Yakupov.. If Yakupov gets traded I hand in my Oilers Lifer Club Card. I've defended this team against anyone that has ever said an negative unjustified non sensible derogatory word. But if YakCity gets sent out of town, my 31years have been betrayed. Only 3 players I would trade Yakupov for. Crosby, Stamkos, Bill Ranford 1990. All impossible!

I'd have Perron or Ebs middle the 2nd line until 89's return. Nuge Hall Hemsky Ebs Perron Yak

You find some other way to acquire the "pronger" you don't trade a #1 pick to do it no matter what. If you do you should be shot.

Does this other way you speak off, require magic beans, and unicorns.

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#92 Oiler Al
October 09 2013, 04:30PM
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First I think Leafs are giving up to early on Gardnair,unless he has health issues, ON the other hand why would Oilers need him, we have the other pea that came from the same pod, in Jr. Schultz . I think one of these is enough, even though Schultz is much better , but they both came from the same school...and system. Kinda shows on the ice today.

Oilers need a heavy , hitting D man , that can skate. PS SMid is a poor imitation of one.

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#93 pkam
October 09 2013, 04:40PM
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OilClog wrote:

Yakupov.. If Yakupov gets traded I hand in my Oilers Lifer Club Card. I've defended this team against anyone that has ever said an negative unjustified non sensible derogatory word. But if YakCity gets sent out of town, my 31years have been betrayed. Only 3 players I would trade Yakupov for. Crosby, Stamkos, Bill Ranford 1990. All impossible!

I'd have Perron or Ebs middle the 2nd line until 89's return. Nuge Hall Hemsky Ebs Perron Yak

You find some other way to acquire the "pronger" you don't trade a #1 pick to do it no matter what. If you do you should be shot.

I don't think it will ever happen but if it does, you still won't trade Yak, Hemsky, Gagner, Omark, Labarbera for Weber, Seth Jones and Rinne?

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#94 Quicksilver ballet
October 09 2013, 04:43PM
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@OilClog

If you survived the Gretzky deal in 88, i'm sure you'd live to tell the tale of a Yakupov deal. It doesn't get any worse than that Gretzky deal. Time tested and true Oiler fans have seen their share of deals where the best player in the deal was always leaving this city.

I can really see why the Harry and djc types are just so bitter nowadays. They've got nuthin!

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#95 Jordan Nugent-Hallkins
October 09 2013, 05:04PM
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@pkam

It'd take 2+ of the untouchables, maybe even more to even get Nash to the bargaining table on that one.

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#96 pkam
October 09 2013, 05:05PM
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washed up wrote:

Grabovski, got bought out around the 4th of July. Gagner didn't sign his extension until the end of July. I'm just using the number he signed in Washington. P.S, no way Gagner gets 65 points in a season.

My mistake on the dates.

Grabovski finally score 59 pts when he entered his prime at 26. Only once before (at age 24) that he had more than 30 pt (48 pts). But for some strange reason, you believe that Gagner, who never had one season less than 40 pts, still a few years from his prime, will never be able to score more than 60 pts.

Grabovski signed for 1 year only. Who knows how much he will ask at the end of this season. Wonder why he didn't sign for a longer contract? Do you think he will sign a long contract at 3M?

If he is asking Gagner's money, i.e. 4.8M for 3-4 years, who will you choose?

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#97 bwar
October 09 2013, 05:17PM
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Do the Oilers want/need Gardiner? NO.

Why would we trade away highly valuable young assets to get a subpar d-man? We have at least Nurse and Klefbom in the pipeline and if anything we need to strengthen our defense not add more offense to defensive positions.

What is our defense going to look like next year? Schultz-Ference Petry-Smid/Belov Kelfbom-Smid/Belov

If Gardiner is replacing anyone in that picture it would be Petry and I'm not entirely sure he is such an upgrade over Petry that would be worth the price Toronto will be asking. Furthermore what does our defense look like in 3 years? Schultz-Klefbom Nurse-Smid/Belov/Ference Petry-Other devolped d-man

I just don't see Gardiner being a substantial upgrade in either the short term or the long term.

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#98 pkam
October 09 2013, 05:29PM
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Jordan Nugent-Hallkins wrote:

It'd take 2+ of the untouchables, maybe even more to even get Nash to the bargaining table on that one.

Hall outscored Nash last year and Eberle did that the year before. RNH is probably going to do it this year and Yak likely next year.

Except perhaps Eberle, I believe these 4 kids will be nearly as good as Nash in 2-4 years. Why would I trade 2 future for 1 now unless we are completing for the cup this year instead of debating if we can make the playoff?

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#99 Jordan Nugent-Hallkins
October 09 2013, 05:47PM
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@pkam

I think you misunderstood. I meant Nashville.

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#100 TeddyTurnbuckle
October 09 2013, 05:48PM
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Watching monday's game I thought Smid and Nick Shultz really struggled making passes. In fact they looked terrible.

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