Taylor Hall, Opportunity and the 2014 Olympics

Jonathan Willis
December 10 2013 08:14AM

Yesterday, TSN’s extremely well-connected Darren Dreger listed five players at left wing on his projected Canadian Olympic depth chart. After those five names, he listed four other players as left wings fighting for a spot on the team. That’s nine names total; Taylor Hall’s wasn’t even mentioned.

It’s pretty unlikely that Dreger just pulled those names out of thin air. Anybody who follows hockey knows that he has sources, and given the number of NHL people involved in the Hockey Canada selection process it’s a pretty good bet that he’s given us a decent look at what the management group is thinking.

Hall’s Chances

Despite Hall’s well-publicized lapses in the defensive zone, there’s no doubt that he stacks up extremely well against the nine guys on Dreger’s list offensively. Even if we stack the deck against Hall – starting the clock in his rookie season and giving no weight to his improvement since then – he shows very well:

Player G/82 A/82 PTS/82
Eric Staal 28 48 76
Patrick Sharp 34 40 74
Taylor Hall 32 40 72
Jamie Benn 26 44 70
Chris Kunitz 32 38 70
James Neal 35 34 69
Patrick Marleau 33 34 67
Logan Couture 33 32 65
Matt Duchene 27 35 62
Milan Lucic 26 35 61

If we nix Hall’s rookie year, he’s seventh among Canadian forwards in points-per-game since 2011.

It’s more than scoring, too. Hockey’s a game of what a team creates versus what it gives up, and Hall was incredible in that regard last season. With Hall on the ice in 2012-13, the Oilers out-shot the opposition 36-32; with him on the bench those numbers fell to 23-32. That’s an insane tilt, the mark of a true difference-maker, one of the very best players in the entire world.

Is it frustrating that Hall sometimes cheats for offence, or occasionally turns the puck over while making plays? Yes, it is, because he could be an utterly dominant player and instead he’s just a very, very good one. It’s probably going to cost him an Olympic spot, even if it shouldn’t.

But it’s also an opportunity for Edmonton.

Coachable Moment?

It’s a pretty good bet that Hall wants to play for Canada. He represented his country at the World Championships last summer and he played in various international tourneys as a junior. Last year, of course, was marred by Lindy Ruff’s usage of Hall but if anything that should only go toward illustrating the same point.

People aren’t going to take Hall seriously as one of the game’s greats – even if he is one – until he’s as enthusiastic about work in his own zone as he is about putting points up on the board. He’s already shown an ability to adapt his game, focusing on being more aware of hits and improving his play-making; he can make another shift to be a more responsible two-way player.

Self-preservation likely helped motivate the first change. Getting his proper due can help motivate the second. And ensuring that Hall makes that jump is one of a bunch of challenges facing Dallas Eakins.

Recently by Jonathan Willis

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Jonathan Willis is a freelance writer. He currently works for Oilers Nation, Sportsnet, the Edmonton Journal and Bleacher Report. He's co-written three books and worked for myriad websites, including Grantland, ESPN, The Score, and Hockey Prospectus. He was previously the founder and managing editor of Copper & Blue.
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#51 Zarny
December 10 2013, 10:28AM
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Citizen David wrote:

Looking at Dregers list:

Stamkos probably won't be back. He has Bergeron and St.Louis on the outside looking in at the moment. Those two should be locks. I've ranted enough about Spezza I won't do it again but I can't believe how hockey Canada ignores him.

Yeesh, enough about Spezza.

What does Spezza bring that you don't get with Crosby, Toews, Tavares or Getzlaf?

Nothing..except he's more of a defensive liability.

Spezza certainly sits behind Crosby on the depth chart and you would never play him on the 3rd or 4th line. He's not a candidate to play the wing which means the only spot he could possibly play is 2C.

Thanks but the smart money says Toews, Tavares or Getzlaf are better picks. Whatever increase you may get from Spezza is marginal compared to the increased risk and defensive liability.

Hall is in the same boat. The extra 5 pts a year doesn't make up for the increased turnovers or flying the zone cheating for offense.

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#52 Greasy Goal
December 10 2013, 10:33AM
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Why is Giroux projected on the second line? He's had a horrid season(20 points in 30 games). Is team Canada going after reputational players, producing players, or are they going after a weird combination of both which could leave people scratching their heads? I believe thats called the 'political' aspect of choosing.

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#53 Rob F
December 10 2013, 11:35AM
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Although I dont agree with Neal and Kunitz, I also do not think Hall earned a spot on this Olympic team.

Olympic prediction....

Gold medal game Russian Vs. Canada

Nail Yakupov gold winning goal....assited by Anton Belov

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#54 Zarny
December 10 2013, 01:14PM
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TigerUnderGlass wrote:
Sorry bud but it does all tie together.

Bud? Really?

Yes, players who have the puck a lot turn it over a lot. Players who make the Olympics, however, go get it back. Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Getzlaf...everyone you named but Kessel does just that. Hall doesn't. Period.

Yet Hall has a solid record of drastically outchancing the opposition. How has he managed this with so many turnovers and without any ability to acquire the puck I wonder.

It also matters where you turn the puck over. Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Getzlaf etc almost never turn the puck over at either blue line.

This is false. Most turnovers by puck possession players occur at the blue line. As I said to someone earlier - if you can prove to me that Datsyuk is more prone to dumping in the puck than Hall I will listen to this argument. Otherwise it's just the shrill noise from fans of a losing team reaching for answers.

Good grief, you should try making a point instead of just driveling on.

And learn to read.

I didn't say Datsyuk is more likely to dump the puck. He's simply less likely to turn the puck over at the blue-lines.

If you need proof go watch any of Detroit's 82 regular season games. Pavel Datsyuk is a perennial Selke trophy candidate.

Finally, even if Hall and Datsyuk turn the puck over in the exact same spot on the ice Datsyuk repeatedly gets the puck back far more often than Hall.

Thus, preventing the opposition from getting a scoring chance.

Hall? Not so much. He's much more likely to be the forward 5th back into the d-zone and just creeping into the screen as the opposition scores.

It's not a coincidence that of all the LW being mentioned for Canada Hall is virtually the only negative in plus/minus.

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#55 Romulus' Apotheosis
December 10 2013, 01:52PM
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Spydyr wrote:

"balls," "heart" and "truculence,"

Those things are known as intangibles.They don't show up on your spreadsheet.They do however win hockey games.

Perhaps.

Unfortunately, such "measures" are rife with bias, bogus narratives, moving goalposts, arbitrariness and post hoc rationalization. All of which, makes them hard to take very seriously.

What they do do, however, is give people without much insight lots to say.

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#56 Zarny
December 10 2013, 04:57PM
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TigerUnderGlass wrote:

Plus/minus?

#pennerforsochi

Re: Datsyuk - I've explained this twice now. I'm not doing it again for your benefit. I will do my very best to "learn to read" however. Grow up "bud".

Nope.

You literally didn't make a point. Just driveled on about dumping the puck for no apparent reason.

The fact you even try to compare Hall and Datsyuk regarding turnovers is laughable.

Fun stats:

Giveaways this season:

Taylor Hall: 35 Tied for 4th most in the NHL

Pavel Datsyuk: 14 Tied for 138th most in the NHL

Takeaways this season:

Taylor Hall: 19 Tied for 55th most in the NHL

Pavel Datsyuk: 40 Literally has the most takeaways in the NHL.

Turnover plus/minus:

Taylor Hall: -19 16th worst in the NHL.

Pavel Datsyuk: 26 The 2nd best in the NHL.

When Taylor Hall gives the puck away, he should literally watch and do what Pavel Datsyuk does.

He doesn't and it's not even close.

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#57 Fresh Mess
December 10 2013, 08:55AM
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Hall's destiny should still be at centre. His apologists tried to blame his horrible lapses on being out of position, but they continued when he moved back to wing. If he could get his game together and be responsible, his perceived worth around the NHL would skyrocket as a C/LW.

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#58 Citizen David
December 10 2013, 09:07AM
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Hall makes my Olympic team any day. Gets a spot in the top six. Absolutely fantastic player.

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#59 Spydyr
December 10 2013, 09:35AM
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@Clarko

Kunitz has won the Cup he has a history with Crosby he is a more mature player.

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#60 cccsberg
December 10 2013, 09:52AM
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Clarko wrote:

If you offered Taylor Hall straight up for any player on that list today, you could basically have any one of those players. Especially Kunitz who will probably make the team.

If you wouldn't trade Hall straight up for Kunitz, then you are full of crap when if anyone says Kunitz is an all-round better player than Hall.

The ONLY reason Kunitz makes this team is because he plays with Crosby. If Hall plays with Crosby, he makes this team every time all day long...there wouldn't even be a question.

Crazy, crazy homer comment, but its good to be a fan and support your guys, even if its crazy. Hall right now is a big fish in a little pond. His defence is terrible, selfish play and turnovers galore... but, since Edmonton hasn't got anything better, and because the Oilers turned the team over to the prima donna youth (way too early) they can't bench him or try some other things and he doesn't have to listen, and he continues to get primo minutes to rack up the misleading stats. LOL on him learning and getting the message. Everyone else on that list are team players, and Kunitz for instance is good is because he can work with Crosby and they make a great unit. Putting Hall with his me-first attitude and sloppy play with Crosby is a huge down-grade on what they already have.

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#61 Citizen David
December 10 2013, 10:09AM
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Looking at Dregers list:

Stamkos probably won't be back. He has Bergeron and St.Louis on the outside looking in at the moment. Those two should be locks. I've ranted enough about Spezza I won't do it again but I can't believe how hockey Canada ignores him.

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#62 Reg Dunlop
December 10 2013, 10:12AM
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Guys like Dreger sicken me. An Alberta boy and he's completely disrespecting Hallsy and the Oiler org. Can't he see the crazy, top-end skill of a first overall? Maybe he has been brainwashed into having an eastern bias because not only Hall but Ebs, Nuge and Gags should be in Sochi. We have to have cute nicknames and mad top end skill to bring home gold. Who is going to wheel those Russian babes with Hall playing Xbox instead of flying toward the opponents net and coasting back to his own blueline? Who else is going to look sullen on the bench when coach grinds him for taking a 2 minute shift?

They're taking the Hobbits to Isengard.

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#63 Zarny
December 10 2013, 11:19AM
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TigerUnderGlass wrote:

The very idea of a top 6 and a bottom six made up of role players on the Olympic teams needs to be eliminated forever.

A hockey players "role" is to outscore the opposition.

The reason these "role players" exist in the NHL has to do with financial constraints, not a quest for some magical mix of players.

If you can send a 4th line of Getzlaf-Perry-Nash, you don't send marginal players instead because they are better suited to some mythical "role". It's idiotic.

Not actually that argument is idiotic too.

The Olympics is not an all-star game. The 3rd and 4th lines and bottom pairing D do not get equal ice time.

And part of outscoring the opposition is preventing goals; not just scoring them. Winning 2-1 is better than losing 5-4.

When you get to the 3rd or 4th line the offense you gain with many players is marginal at best compared to the increased liability and risk you get on defense.

"Role players" at the Olympics are not guys like Colton Orr.

They are guys like Bergeron; literally one of the best defensive forwards in the world. Or Mike Richards. Or Patrick Sharp.

What's idiotic is thinking the Olympics is an all-star game you're going to win 9-8.

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#64 Rama Lama
December 10 2013, 11:20AM
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The criticism for Hall " Cheating for Offence", by various pundits is laughable!!!

If you were playing on the Oilers, and no one around you could do ANYTHING that resembles offence.......might I suggest you would do exactly the same thing.

I remember a day when Gretzky, would almost always cheat for offence......the difference was back in those days we had defensemen that could actually get him the puck.

Our issues are not offence, strictly the absence of defencemen that can actually move the puck. The closest thing we have in that regard is Philip Larsen.

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#65 TigerUnderGlass
December 10 2013, 11:52AM
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Zarny wrote:

Not actually that argument is idiotic too.

The Olympics is not an all-star game. The 3rd and 4th lines and bottom pairing D do not get equal ice time.

And part of outscoring the opposition is preventing goals; not just scoring them. Winning 2-1 is better than losing 5-4.

When you get to the 3rd or 4th line the offense you gain with many players is marginal at best compared to the increased liability and risk you get on defense.

"Role players" at the Olympics are not guys like Colton Orr.

They are guys like Bergeron; literally one of the best defensive forwards in the world. Or Mike Richards. Or Patrick Sharp.

What's idiotic is thinking the Olympics is an all-star game you're going to win 9-8.

Put those straw men away and try again.

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#66 TigerUnderGlass
December 10 2013, 11:53AM
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Zarny wrote:

It all ties together.

Hall is a chronic turnover case. As you pointed out though he's certainly not the only one.

However, those other players are voracious at getting the puck back and correcting their mistakes (with the exception of Kessel).

So if Hall turns the puck over and isn't going to get it back he becomes a defensive liability.

When Datsyuk turns the puck over the odds are he gets it back. It also helps that he's one of the best defensive forwards in the world.

When Hall turns the puck over the odds are the other team gets a scoring opportunity. It's the same story with Spezza and Mike Green (not as much anymore).

HC is about mitigating risk. Sure, you might get a few extra points from players like Hall but that's a marginal increase in offense compared to the increase in likelihood he coughs the puck up and causes the game-winning goal.

No it doesn't "tie together". Players who have the puck a lot turn it over a lot. Period.

If you have a different argument then make it.

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#67 K_Mart
December 10 2013, 08:40AM
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you'd think his defensive zone lapses would take away from his offensive zone time and offensive production, yet he is still 3rd on that list. I get why he won't make the team, but not why he isn't even in the conversation.

We you are constantly driving the play towards the opposition you are going to have the most turnovers. It's hard to turn the puck over when you never have it.. hall always finds a way to get the puck. In turn he turns it over quite a bit. Something he's getting much better at.

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#68 Smokey
December 10 2013, 10:18AM
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Citizen David wrote:

Looking at Dregers list:

Stamkos probably won't be back. He has Bergeron and St.Louis on the outside looking in at the moment. Those two should be locks. I've ranted enough about Spezza I won't do it again but I can't believe how hockey Canada ignores him.

St. Louis will be there. Yzerman I don't think will leave him off.

Bergeron is too much of a beast on faceoffs not to be there. At worst he's a 4rth line center or extra skater.

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#69 Dawn
December 10 2013, 10:38AM
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International gold is a pipe dream for Canada as long as HC is more about politics than icing the best players available.

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#70 Zarny
December 10 2013, 11:28AM
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TigerUnderGlass wrote:

What does that have to do with turnovers?

If you want to say he doesn't hustle back enough for you, fine, but that isn't the argument people are making when they say he turns it over too much.

It all ties together.

Hall is a chronic turnover case. As you pointed out though he's certainly not the only one.

However, those other players are voracious at getting the puck back and correcting their mistakes (with the exception of Kessel).

So if Hall turns the puck over and isn't going to get it back he becomes a defensive liability.

When Datsyuk turns the puck over the odds are he gets it back. It also helps that he's one of the best defensive forwards in the world.

When Hall turns the puck over the odds are the other team gets a scoring opportunity. It's the same story with Spezza and Mike Green (not as much anymore).

HC is about mitigating risk. Sure, you might get a few extra points from players like Hall but that's a marginal increase in offense compared to the increase in likelihood he coughs the puck up and causes the game-winning goal.

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#71 Zarny
December 10 2013, 11:31AM
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Rama Lama wrote:

The criticism for Hall " Cheating for Offence", by various pundits is laughable!!!

If you were playing on the Oilers, and no one around you could do ANYTHING that resembles offence.......might I suggest you would do exactly the same thing.

I remember a day when Gretzky, would almost always cheat for offence......the difference was back in those days we had defensemen that could actually get him the puck.

Our issues are not offence, strictly the absence of defencemen that can actually move the puck. The closest thing we have in that regard is Philip Larsen.

1) Taylor Hall is not Wayne Gretzky

2) You don't see Crosby, Toews, Getzlaf, Sharp or Couture etc cheating for offense. Not like Hall.

I agree a substandard D is part of the problem and that includes Larsen. Moving the puck is nice but stopping opposing players is even better.

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#72 50 in 39
December 10 2013, 11:33AM
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All turnovers are not created equal. Getting double teamed along the boards and giving up the puck is not even close to being equal to sending wishful cross ice passes.

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#73 Clarko
December 10 2013, 11:52AM
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Spydyr wrote:

I'm not always trying play the devils advocate. As much as I love the Oilers I have the ability to see things through non-Oiler colour glasses.

Watching hockey for over forty-three years and playing for over thirty-five gives me the ability to judge hockey without the hometown bias.

Giving your credentials doesn't make your argument any more or less convincing. I've played, coached, and watched hockey for 30 years...doesn't mean I'm always right. It also means that two people who love hockey and have a lot of experience in the game can still disagree with one another.

Also, providing an argument for Hall to make the Olympic team doesn't necessarily mean you are biased just because you cheer for the Oilers. Most of us can see that this team is terrible and will call out players, coaches, and management. However, it doesn't mean every piece of the team is rotten. Hall, in my opinion, is one of the few bright spots and deserving of serious consideration to make the Olympic team (again, just my opinion). You can choose to disagree.

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#74 Zarny
December 10 2013, 12:42PM
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Citizen David wrote:

I'm not sure what qualifies some centers to be able to switch to wing and not others. I also missed the class that says Spezza is a defensive liability. In my mind this defensive liability thing has become a boogeyman. Like Tigerunderglass says if you carry the puck more you'll have more turnovers just like if you don't have the puck much you'll have more hits and blocked shots. But having the puck is what we want. To win in hockey you have to score more than the other team. Spezza is better at getting points than almost anyone on that roster.

Missed the class? More like the last decade.

Spezza routinely gets caught deep in the offensive zone and/or on the wrong side of the puck. He has games where he floats instead of back-checks and frequently he's the forward to coming into the top of the screen as the opposition scores on a 3-1 from a Spezza giveaway.

When you are trying out for the Olympic team your defensive capabilities aren't compared to Tyler Pitlick. They are compared to guys like Toews, Richards and Sharp who literally have some of the best defensive games in the world.

As for C able to switch to the wing it includes positional play, ability to play on the boards and the corner, specifically the ability to play physical on the boards and the corner.

Compared to the best in the world Spezza is not very good at any of it. Go watch the work Toews and E. Staal have done against Chara in the playoffs. Spezza can't do that.

Scoring more than the other team is not only about offense.

Even if it was, Spezza is not better at getting points than almost anyone on that roster.

He's light years behind Crosby and Stamkos. And right now he's sitting behind Getzlaf, Perry, Thornton, Tavares, Kunitz, Couture, Marleau, Seguin, Little, St. Louis and Sharp.

He is tied with Jonathan Toews; who unlike Spezza is literally one of the best defensive forwards in Canada.

So again, other than a nifty toe-drag what does Spezza bring that you don't get from 15 other Canadian forwards?

Because most of them bring a lot that Spezza doesn't have.

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#75 Zarny
December 10 2013, 12:52PM
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TigerUnderGlass wrote:

No it doesn't "tie together". Players who have the puck a lot turn it over a lot. Period.

If you have a different argument then make it.

Sorry bud but it does all tie together.

Yes, players who have the puck a lot turn it over a lot.

Players who make the Olympics, however, go get it back.

Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Getzlaf...everyone you named but Kessel does just that.

Hall doesn't. Period.

So when you turn the puck over and don't get it back you become a defensive liability.

It also matters where you turn the puck over. Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Getzlaf etc almost never turn the puck over at either blue line. Their giveaways rarely lead to immediate scoring chances.

Hall? Quite frequently his turnovers lead to immediate scoring chances for the opposing team.

If this is too confusing for you then perhaps you should go watch some more hockey.

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#76 Zarny
December 10 2013, 12:57PM
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K_Mart wrote:

Would you trade Hall for Couture, seguin, or kunitz? If your answer is yes, there is no hope for you.

If Hall was playing on San Jose or Pitt there is no question he would be on the team.

The fact that the oilers are struggling, and that his turnovers are always on the highlight reel are the reasons he isn't on the team.

EDIT: Should have read your post. I agree with everything you said about Spezza

Seguin and Kunitz...no.

Right now Couture is a more complete player. I wouldn't make the trade because I think Hall has more offensive upside and you can teach him defense; but Couture will make the Olympic team and Hall won't specifically because Couture plays a better 200 ft game today.

And there is no question Couture benefits from being supported by Marleau and Thornton.

That is one of the fundamental flaws in the Oilers rebuild. It isn't surprising when young kids make mistakes.

Not having skilled vets to back them up and teach them is an organizational weakness. Look what David Perron has done for the Oilers.

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#77 Oiler Al
December 10 2013, 02:43PM
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When Hall, learns to play the "team game" then he can be considered for National teams. They are called TEAM for a reason.. and not ME.

Lacks defensive skills, and as mention way to many turnovers... there is no room for error on the Olympic teams.

I think many of Oilers struggles stems for to many guys playing the ME game.. Hall, Eberle, Yak, Gagner, Hemsky, Schultz Jr... Time to gel boys.

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#78 Zamboni Driver
December 10 2013, 04:45PM
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Anyone sticking to/with the idea that Hall should be in Sochi.

Ask yourself this.

Who has been the best player on the Oilers this year? Keeping in mind that the Edmonton Oilers are, what? third-last in the NHL! (hurry stats nerds correct me)

The fact is there would be a debate between Hall and Perron. And actually I'd side with Perron as the best Oiler to date.

In 19 billion years no one is talking about Perron going to the big Dance. So why in the world would Hall be considered this time around?

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#79 camdog
December 10 2013, 05:13PM
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@Johnnydapunk

"I would have thought that the closest replication to playing on a larger ice surface would be when teams play 4 on 4 so maybe that is a small factor in team selections."

Did you forget that Hall played in the World Championships last season? Did you see the 2 turnovers he made in the neutral zone that lead to 2 goals against? On the large ice Hall failed last season. This failure is the reason why he is not getting any consideration for the Olympic team.

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#80 Spydyr
December 10 2013, 08:51AM
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Clarko wrote:

I mean all of the above. Look at Pittsburgh's organization, structure, coaching consistency, winning culture, and surrounding players.

Would Hall not benefit in not only points, but also from having a very good coach, a consistent system to play under, and the benefit of being sheltered by Crosby, Malkin, Letang, etc.?

Sure, but who wouldn't. You could say that about any player on a losing team.

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#81 Anthony
December 10 2013, 09:59AM
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From what I gather, Canada would rather shift a bunch of Centers to play Left Wing, instead of taking one of the most dominate left wings in the NHL. I think a pretty good comparison for Hall is Kessel. Similar numbers, similar type of player, now imagine the US left Kessel off the team. I guess this shows how deep Canada is, but also, how insane they are to leave Hall off the team/discussion table.

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#82 Brownsie
December 10 2013, 10:04AM
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Spydyr wrote:

Sure, but who wouldn't. You could say that about any player on a losing team.

So if you agree with his point then why argue with him? You don't always have to play devils advocate.

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#83 TigerUnderGlass
December 10 2013, 11:19AM
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Zarny wrote:

Umm no...you argument is idiotic.

Those regular leaders on the turnover board...Datsyuk, Getzlaf, Zetterberg, Kessel and Tavares are also on the leader board for players who get on their horse to get the puck back when they turn it over.

Hall...not so much.

What does that have to do with turnovers?

If you want to say he doesn't hustle back enough for you, fine, but that isn't the argument people are making when they say he turns it over too much.

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#84 Spoils
December 10 2013, 11:31AM
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The turnover/DZone argument is not entirely unfair, but I just believe his upside out weighs that.

If Hall played on Boston or Montreal he would be a lock. 7th highest Canadian scorer and he will be better on the big ice.

Big miss for Canada. Big miss for us, because the confidence he would return with would be infectious.

Go 2018!

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#85 Spydyr
December 10 2013, 11:41AM
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Brownsie wrote:

So if you agree with his point then why argue with him? You don't always have to play devils advocate.

I'm not always trying play the devils advocate. As much as I love the Oilers I have the ability to see things through non-Oiler colour glasses.

Watching hockey for over forty-three years and playing for over thirty-five gives me the ability to judge hockey without the hometown bias.

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#86 Some other guy
December 10 2013, 12:36PM
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Well, it sucks for Oiler fans that they won't have any of their own in the olympics. Thats why I'm especially excited to watch Darnell Nurse in the world juniors.

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#87 GiveandTake
December 10 2013, 12:44PM
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TigerUnderGlass wrote:

The entire Giveaway argument is idiotic.

Turnovers are a measure of how often someone has the puck, nothing more.

Regulars among the turnover leader board include Datsyuk, Getzlaf, Zetterberg, Kessel, Tavares...

People need to stop it.

The takeaway/giveaway stat is often useless. But the takeaway/giveaway argument is not useless. The Oilers in general (including hall, but not pointing fingers) make absolutely embarrassing giveaways all game long. If you actually watch the games, these things are important and noticeable.

The stat may be useless, but the giveaway argument is not. The oil make too many garbage giveaways and they need to stop it.

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#88 another guy
December 10 2013, 12:55PM
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@K_Mart

nice link, note that Lucic is still lower down on the list than Hall.

Penner is higher up than Perrey too.

#PENNERFORSOCHI

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#89 TigerUnderGlass
December 10 2013, 01:12PM
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Citizen David wrote:

Last season he played 5 games in which he had 5 points. The one before he was in the top five in NHL scoring with 84 while Getzlaf had 58.

Spezza is really in tough at center

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#90 Sidney
December 10 2013, 02:27PM
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No chance does not play a 200 ft game.

They already have players that are fast and can score.

I guess if a number of players get injured before the Olympics he has a chance.

Also Hall has never played in the playoffs he does not know pressure at the NHL level

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#91 S cottV
December 10 2013, 04:33PM
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@Johnnydapunk

In some ways the big ice favors Hall and in other ways it doesn't.

Similar to 4 on 4, big ice puts more of a premium on possession hockey because the straight dump and forecheck does not work as well, as opposition d men have more time and space to work the puck out.

Teams that dump it have to be more selective about where its dumped, to have a line mate be first to the puck or to be right on the opposition d man who retrieves.

While possession is at more of a premium, which favors Hall - turnovers that cause odd man rushes are even more dangerous on big ice -which doesn't favor him. You have to have some patience and pick your spots, or its in the back of your net. More dangerous because a 3 on 2 or 2 on 1 yields more time and space than normal and is much harder to defend.

Bottom line - there are guys better suited at this point in time, to do what has to be done on the 3rd and 4th line. Play responsibly - limit opposition chances, chip in with some timely goals, and let the top 2 lines do the bulk of the scoring. Doesn't sound like a Hallsey assignment to me.

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#92 Zarny
December 10 2013, 04:40PM
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Citizen David wrote:

Last season he played 5 games in which he had 5 points. The one before he was in the top five in NHL scoring with 84 while Getzlaf had 58.

Wow...5 pts in 5 games.

Gagner got 8 pts in 1 game 2 years ago. Should he go to Sochi?

You can cherry pick stats however you want.

Giroux had 91 pts to Spezza's 84 pts. In 2010-11 Spezza only had 57 pts in 62 games. Getzlaf had 76 pts in 67 games.

And this year Getzlaf has 37 pts compared to Spezza's 27 pts.

The reality is any offense you gain with Spezza is marginal. Literally, fractions of a pt per game.

The increased defensive liability he brings is a lot more than that.

If Spezza was 3rd in league scoring this year he might have had a shot. He isn't. Tied with Brian Little for 19th.

Zero chance he makes this squad.

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#93 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
December 10 2013, 06:53PM
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Romulus' Apotheosis wrote:

Perhaps.

Unfortunately, such "measures" are rife with bias, bogus narratives, moving goalposts, arbitrariness and post hoc rationalization. All of which, makes them hard to take very seriously.

What they do do, however, is give people without much insight lots to say.

Not perhaps.....for sure.

And what is unfortunate is that "statistics" are rife with bias, bogus narratives, moving goalposts, arbitrariness and post hoc rationalization. All of which makes them hard to take seriously.

What they do do, however, is give people with zero insight lots to say.

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#94 Spydyr
December 10 2013, 10:47PM
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Your team is up by a goal with under six minutes to play.Hall coughs the puck up at your blue-line. The other team scores the tying goal.

That play tonight is why Hall is not in the conversation for the Olympics.

Could you imagine that happening in the Gold medal game?

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#95 Greasy Goal
December 10 2013, 08:49AM
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"If we nix Hall’s rookie year, he’s seventh among Canadian forwards in points-per-game since 2011."

I dont see Crosby on the links list, is there a filter in place that takes him out of the stat?

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#96 confused clarence
December 10 2013, 09:34AM
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@spydyr, pleasse stop making sense. I'd really like to avoid giving you props...

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#97 Spydyr
December 10 2013, 09:47AM
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TigerUnderGlass wrote:

Sweet. Does this mean Penner gets to go? He has a couple of cups as well and has a history with Getzlaf.

Well many fans here thought he should of went to the last Olympics.

I didn't and still don't lazy player.

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#98 Spydyr
December 10 2013, 11:35AM
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TigerUnderGlass wrote:

The entire Giveaway argument is idiotic.

Turnovers are a measure of how often someone has the puck, nothing more.

Regulars among the turnover leader board include Datsyuk, Getzlaf, Zetterberg, Kessel, Tavares...

People need to stop it.

A giveaway that ends up in the back of you net does matter.It costs teams games.

Turning the puck over trying to make a offensive play 180 feet from your net is not the same as turning it over at your blueline trying to pass it over a couple sticks. Lots of times because your teammates are going the wrong way that turnover ends up in your net.

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#99 pkam
December 10 2013, 11:46AM
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Zarny wrote:

Umm no...you argument is idiotic.

Those regular leaders on the turnover board...Datsyuk, Getzlaf, Zetterberg, Kessel and Tavares are also on the leader board for players who get on their horse to get the puck back when they turn it over.

Hall...not so much.

Then why are Chris Kunitz and Milan Lucic over Hall?

Don't these two players have less ppg and worse GA vs TA ratio than Hall?

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#100 TigerUnderGlass
December 10 2013, 11:56AM
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Spydyr wrote:

A giveaway that ends up in the back of you net does matter.It costs teams games.

Turning the puck over trying to make a offensive play 180 feet from your net is not the same as turning it over at your blueline trying to pass it over a couple sticks. Lots of times because your teammates are going the wrong way that turnover ends up in your net.

When you show me proof that Datsyuk or Zetterberg are more likely to dump the puck than Hall I will accept this argument.

Unfortunately we know that carrying the puck in creates way more offense than dumping it so...

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