GDB 37.0: ASK SAKIC?

Jason Gregor
December 19 2013 12:29PM

As the Oilers get set to face the Colorado Avalanche trying to end a four game losing streak, Taylor Hall and company can take solace in knowing that some other young stars endured many years of losing, before tasting the sweet nectar of victory.

They should ask Joe Sakic, the Avalanche's Executive Vice President of Hockey Operations, about losing. He lost way more than these kids have early in his career, and it didn't break him, and he didn't pout about it. He persevered and became a Hall of Famer.

Hall has played 200 games, Eberle has been in 231 games, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins has dressed in 136, while Nail Yakupov is at 82 games and Justin Schultz has played 76. No one should be suggesting that all the losing is going to wear down these kids. I don't believe any of them are that fragile, but even if they thought about having a pity party, they should do a quick search of Joe Sakic's career.

Sakic was drafted 15th overall in 1987 by the Quebec Nordiques. He played one more season in Swift Current before debuting with the Nordiques in October of 1988. Keep in mind that in his first three seasons he played in a 21-team league where 16 teams made the playoffs.

In Sakic's first three seasons, the Nordiques finished dead last every year. The Nordiques drafted 1st, 1st, 1st and 4th in his first four NHL seasons.

1989: They went 27-46-7 for 61 points.
1990: They were 12-61-7 for 31 points.
1991: They went 16-50-14 for 46 points.
1992: They went 20-28-12 for 52 points.

In 1993, they were literally twice as good picking up 104 points going 47-27-10, but in 1994 Sakic and the Nordiques dipped back down to 76 points with a 34-42-8 record.

In his first four seasons, Sakic's Nordiques won a measly 75 of the 320 games they played. Sakic dressed in 299 of those games, and he learned much more about losing than he did winning.

Despite all the losses Sakic played exceptionally well.

YEAR       GP      G       A      PTS
1989        70      23     39      62 
1990        80      39     63     102
1991        80      48     61     109
1992        69      29     65      94

In 1990, the second leading scorer on the Nordiques was Peter Stastny with 62 points in 62 games before being traded. In 1991, Sakic had 50 more points than his closest teammate; Mats Sundin tallied 59 points.

Sakic didn't let the losing get to him. He kept battling and kept producing. 

WINNERS KEEP WORKING DESPITE LOSING  

Hall played his 200th game on Tuesday, and despite another loss, Hall, Eberle and Nugent-Hopkins haven't come close to experiencing the type of losing that Sakic had to face.

Hall's Oilers have played 248 games since he entered the league and they've won 87 of those. Sakic's team won 75 of 320 during his first four seasons. Losing sucks and I'm sure it can wear down a player, but if Hall wants to become one of the greats he needs to keep playing hard, and hope that eventually he will be surrounded by better players. He needs to continue to show determination and play strong, and like Sakic, at times he will need to carry the Oilers on his back.

Hall was the Oilers most dangerous forward in LA. He needs to keep playing like that, regardless of where the Oilers are in the standings or how often they are losing. Hall has the ability to be a franchise player, and considering how much he has improved in his last 100 games, I suspect he'll only keep getting better.

I've heard some people suggesting the kids will get tired of losing and want out of Edmonton, but competitive people don't think like that. There will be games where they look frustrated, and understandably so, but many elite players have started their NHL careers tasting defeat more often than victory, and the last thing that Hall or any of his teammates will do is feel sorry for themselves.

They need to be part of the solution, and when they start to win the victories will be more fulfilling because of what they learned in their first few seasons.

MORE TOUGH STARTS...

Mario Lemieux missed the playoffs in his first four seasons, and five of his first six. The Penguins drafted 2nd, 4th, 5th and 4th in his first four years.

Steven Stamkos has missed the playoffs four of his first five seasons. The Bolts have drafted 2nd, 6th, 10th and 3rd during those four losing seasons.

John Tavares has missed the playoffs three of his first four years, and the Islanders are poised to miss the postseason again. They have drafted 4th, 5th and 5th thus far in his non-playoff seasons.

Rick Nash played five full seasons without the playoffs, and he missed the dance in 8 of his first 9 years.

Ilya Kovalchuk missed the postseason his first four years and seven of his first eight seasons.

Vincent Lecavalier missed the playoffs his first four seasons. The Bolts were scheduled to pick 1st, 5th, 3rd and 4th in those years.

**Sidenote**.. Rick Dudley was the GM for Tampa Bay in 1999 and he traded the 1st overall pick. He moved down to 4th, and then traded again and didn't pick until 47th. He ended up with Dan Cloutier, Andrei Zyuzin, Shawn Burr and the Rangers 1st round pick in 2000. He could have used the first pick on Patrik Stefan or one of the Sedins, although those two had made it known they really wanted to play together.

The next year, Dudley traded the 5th pick to the Islanders for Kevin Weekes, Kristian Kurdroc and the 31st pick. The Islanders selected Raffi Torres. Despite these horrific deals, the Lightning still won the Cup in 2004. ***

Losing stinks but Hall and company aren't the first group of young stars to endure losing seasons, so let's stop the suggestions that they will want out of Edmonton. Anyone in the media or fan base who suggests these kids have endured too much losing need only look at the career paths of other young stars. Rarely is it an instant path to success.

Winning is difficult and as painful as these past few seasons have been for Hall and company, they need to learn from it, and be willing to ensure they improve their play so the team becomes more successful. Hall is good enough to lead this team to better times ahead, and he'll likely inspire his teammates to follow him in the coming seasons.

LINEUP...

Hall-RNH-Eberle
Perron-Gagner-Yakupov
Smyth-Gordon-Hemsky
Jones-Lander-Gazdic

Ference-Petry
N.Schultz-J.Schultz
Belov-Larsen

Dubnyk

Arcobello got rocked by Drew Doughty in the 3rd period of Tuesday's 3-0 loss to the Kings, and hasn't skated since. Lander will draw in for Arcobello. 

The Oilers will need to get scoring chances from someone other than Hall tonight. The Avalanche are 6-5-1 in their last 12, and after a 16-5 start they are starting to look more like the team people expected. They aren't a force like the Kings, Bruins or Ducks, but they will provide another solid test for the Oilers.

Dubnyk gets the start. I'm not one who buys into the "Dubnyk plays better when pushed" theory; however, it is obvious that Dubnyk needs to be more consistent.  I want a goalie who plays well regardless of who he shares the net with.

WHAT SEE YOU?

GAME DAY PREDICTION: The Oilers will end their trip on a high, with a 4-2 victory in Denver.

OBVIOUS GAME DAY PREDICTION: Bordeleau and Gazdic drop the gloves. Fight fans love it, while anti-fight crowd will complain. This will never change.

NOT-SO-OBVIOUS GAME DAY PREDICTION: Usually it is former Oilers scoring against Edmonton, but tonight Ryan Smyth bucks that trend and scores against his former team ending his 10-game goal scoring drought. In 16 home games, Erik Johnson has only been a minus player twice, but he ends up -1 tonight.

DAY 15 MONTH OF GIVING...

Yesterday we raised another $3,850 bringing our total to $58,700. Incredible. Thank you.

Today's packages include:

Package #1:

Today's package is courtesy of The Maximum Fighting Championship:

  • Two season tickets to all three MFC shows in Edmonton in 2014, starting January 17th.
  • VIP dinner for two at the Shaw conference centre prior to each show.
  • Be a cornerman during one of the fights... **You must be 16 years of age or older***

Package #2:

  • $1,000 gift certificate/store credit at Reside Furnishings
  • Pair of club seats (section 112 row 14) for Oilers vs. Penguins on January 10th.
  • $50 bucks in Oilers money to use at the game for beer or food.

You can bid by calling 780.444.1260 or 1.800.243.1945 between 2-6 p.m. today.

Thanks in advance. All proceeds will go to the Christmas Bureau.

RECENTLY BY JASON GREGOR 

Ddf3e2ba09069c465299f3c416e43eae
One of Canada's most versatile sports personalities. Jason hosts The Jason Gregor Show, weekdays from 2 to 6 p.m., on TSN 1260, and he writes a column every Monday in the Edmonton Journal. You can follow him on Twitter at twitter.com/JasonGregor
Avatar
#51 Hockey fan 1976
December 19 2013, 08:38PM
Trash it!
3
trashes
Cheers
4
cheers

Boy, Dubnuts really enjoys going down to his knees before shot is even taken.

Avatar
#52 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
December 19 2013, 09:12PM
Trash it!
3
trashes
Cheers
12
cheers

Yeah baby! Could be the winner for the Avs.

That's the body language of a career back up in Dubey.

4 pts out of dead last overall.

Avatar
#53 Arius Mumin
December 19 2013, 10:34PM
Trash it!
3
trashes
Cheers
5
cheers
hall2010 wrote:

how is eakins still the head coach...the players don't want to play for this fool...

RNH, Hall and Eberle are his safety blanket.

If they were the stars that we are led to believe, any "good" NHL coach would use them on multiples lines to spread the wealth and create offense and match-ups.

Instead, no matter their, or their teammates performace, we are guranteed to see the trio together.

Avatar
#54 Puck_In_Throat
December 19 2013, 01:09PM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
23
cheers

I actually like this comparison, but lets think about what the Nordiques (Avs) then did to win a cup:

1) traded the 1st overall pick in the 1991 draft (Lindros) for a package that included Peter Forsberg, Ron Hextall, cash, Chris Simon and Mike Ricci (key role players in their cup runs), and first rounds picks in 93 and 94.

2) traded their 1st overall pick from 1989 (Sundin) to Toronto for Wendel Clark, whom they then flipped the next year in a three way deal to get Claude Lemieux (a proven veteran and a key part of their cup runs, who already had a cup)

3) traded Thibault (from the #1 pick from Philly in the Lindros deal) rucinsky and adrei kovalenko for Patrick Roy, a proven, Conn-Smythe and two time cup-winning goalie. Almost as important, that trade gained the Avs Montreal's captain Mike Keane.

The players acquired by the Nordiques/Avs for all of their young studs had one thing in common: multiple Stanley cup finals appearances.

If the Oilers have any hopes of being like the Avs, they need to recognize a few key pieces (Hall and Nuge IMO) and then maximize the value of other assets such as former 1st overall picks in exchange for proven veteran players.

The most glaring of all of these is the Sundin for Clark-turned Lemieux trade. Not exactly a win in the stats column, but Claude Lemieux had 3 cups already and a history of playoff success. ** Edit** I looked up Lemieux and he in fact had just won the Conn Smythe trophy with the NJD. He also won the cup 4 times. Sundin finished with 600 more points than Lemieux, but 70 less playoff points and 0 cups. Nobody talks about how great Marcel Dionne was because the point of the NHL isn't to score goals, its to win Stanley Cups.

MacT has (hopefully) started on this route by acquiring Ference. But draft picks are no sure thing, and good GMs frequently trade players with "upside" for proven veterans.

Avatar
#55 S cottV
December 19 2013, 01:19PM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
15
cheers
Spydyr wrote:

Dubnyk?

Guess the drive or dive for the first overall draft pick has officially started.

Have to keep Dubnyk in the mix and hope they both play well.

Dubnyk still deserves some support, although he better get it going, because it is getting harder to justify.

Bryz looks better - no question, but is still early and with the playoffs gone, why over expose him and draw others into the Bryz ufa sweepstakes.

I mean we ride Bryz - kill Dubnyk - lose Bryz and there is no end to the gong show.

Avatar
#56 Fresh Mess
December 19 2013, 01:32PM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
3
cheers

@Rick Stroppel

Droll. Very droll.

Avatar
#57 Zarny
December 19 2013, 01:40PM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
9
cheers

Commendable pic for the article Mr. Gregor.

Bravo sir! Bravo.

Avatar
#58 season not played
December 19 2013, 01:43PM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

I thought it was a legitimate question.

Avatar
#59 James
December 19 2013, 01:45PM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
9
cheers
Zarny wrote:

Commendable pic for the article Mr. Gregor.

Bravo sir! Bravo.

Agreed. Burnaby Joe is super handsome! *swoon* ;)

Avatar
#60 A-Mc
December 19 2013, 01:45PM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
8
cheers

My faith in Dubnyk hangs by a thread. If he lets in another weak one from the blue line, i think that thread will snap. I already believe that Bryz is a better goalie. Duby is basically fighting for a backup spot these days IMO.

Avatar
#61 oil fan in calgary
December 19 2013, 01:48PM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
11
cheers

Dubnyk in, sam gagner still playing on 1st or 2nd line? was gonna leave work early today and suffer the wrath of the boss (Flames Fan) but whats the point? I have had a standing bet for $10.00 per game oilers/flames and eskimos/stamps.That has made me too broke to go the pub anyway.

Avatar
#62 nunyour
December 19 2013, 02:10PM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers

I wonder why there are so few trades nowadays.There are a few teams that suck just like the oilers,Buf,Philly.etc.but no one trades anymore,they cant be waiting for help from the draft,if they are that will be a long wait.

Avatar
#63 Spydyr
December 19 2013, 02:29PM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
4
cheers
** wrote:

10-1 Colorado. Take it to the bank.

Was 10-1 the same score against you in your last fight?- against Tonya Harding! lmfao!

Avatar
#64 smiliegirl15
December 19 2013, 02:53PM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
4
cheers

Man I hope the Oilers read your blog Jason! We don't need any slackers on this team!!!

Avatar
#65 RB
December 19 2013, 04:21PM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
5
cheers
Jason Gregor wrote:

You seemed to miss the point of the article. The point was that people saying the kids will ask to be traded because of losing is incredibly premature.

Many others players lost a lot early in their career and stayed on their teams...

There was no mention of a correlation to them sucking it up to winning the Cup. I pointed out Tampa only because they won despite some bad trades of high picks. Only 1 team wins every year, the odds the Oilers win is very low even when they become competitive.

Where did I say the current direction of the team was fine?

I said Hall should strive to be the star. I said he should ensure he produces even when the team loses just like Sakic did on brutal teams.

I agree! Gregor is an astute hockey man!

Avatar
#66 D
December 19 2013, 04:39PM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers
Mikey wrote:

You should check your records, becuase you will find Colorado was also a huge spender pre Cap. So your argument is null in void.

How does your statement make his argument null and void? The fact that Colorado was a huge spender pre Cap, and was able to compete on the same playing field as the elite teams of the day bolsters his argument that Quebec could have been successful ceteris paribus.

Avatar
#67 Kr55
December 19 2013, 04:40PM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
4
cheers

Any past team comparable that kept a guy like Lowe in a high up position during the entire streak of futility that we can look at to give us hope? I can't think of one... It's very possible the Oilers will break the 10 season playoff drought record with Lowe at the helm the entire time and beyond.

Avatar
#68 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
December 19 2013, 05:39PM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
3
cheers

Dubnyk tonight, good. 90% chance they lose with Devin in goal.

Every time they start Bryzgalov, i fear he'll win the game on his own. Good thing the Oil have been shut out 2 of his last 3 starts.

5-3 Colorada. Can just gift wrap Hemsky and send him to the Sabres?

Avatar
#69 Serious Gord
December 19 2013, 06:33PM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers

1. Re: the young starlings

It has been and remains my opinion that there could be as many as 4 HHOF quality players on this roster, and like many before them they struggle or at least their teams struggle in their early years.

But the sakic/colorado scenario is more the exception rather than the rule.

All too often these player never get the supporting cast they need to become true contenders for - and in some cases winners of the Stanley cup.

And that latter - more common scenario is what seems to be developing here in EDM. And it is what i think is at the root of much of oilersnation frustration. To wit: it looks like supporting calvary/cast (mixed metaphor - actually chimeric metaphor - sorry) of defence, fierceness and goaltending will arrive too late and these stars will have moved elsewhere, been traded to make cap room, or developed very poor habits due to lousy coaching and a lack of veteran mentoring (not all stars are born top percentile leaders like Sakic was).

2. The game tonight has ominous notes going in:

Dubnyk in net is inexcusable. HE has had his chance and should not start unless there is an injury or a bac-to-back. But just as MAct couldnt bear trading Gagner to fill a need but rather signed him to a ridiculous contract he now can't admit defeat with starting the season with DD and yet again throws him into the breach. (i have no doubt that MAct Insisted on DD being played). And that he IS playing is a microcosm of what is wrong with this team's management.

Colorado i bet has had this date marked on the calendar since they got shellacked by the oil two weeks ago...

That said the avs have been struggling and may not respond as well as they may hope to.

AVs win - 4-3 DD lets in two very weak ones...

Avatar
#70 Spydyr
December 19 2013, 06:41PM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
5
cheers
S cottV wrote:

Still think Dubnyk can get it going....

Nope , never did never will

Avatar
#71 Johnnydapunk
December 19 2013, 06:48PM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers

Really useless fact but I have the same model of gloves that Sakic has except I got the long cuff version (proper old school) They were a bastard to break in but once they did, butter soft and comfortable :-)))

But the thing with the Avs is they built around goaltending and having a pretty decent core of players and the missing piece was Roy, which if the Avs never moved from Quebec, would have never happened as I could only imagine the craziness if Montreal and Quebec traded players.

I still think the Oil need to build from the back up, it's not the freewheeling 80s high scoring anymore and until they get that sorted, I don't think the maintenance men at the Rexall Coliseum will have to worry about finding space for banners anytime soon.

Man the Nords were one of the team I kindof liked as a kid, the Stastny brothers, Mario Gosselin, Michel Goulet, the blue dasher boards of the Le Colisee, oh happy days .....

As for predictions, if the Avs score early, lights out, if the Oil can put a few by, then we will end the night happy. I just don't trust Dubnyk after he lets in a goal as that's usually followed by many more.

Avatar
#72 Rocket
December 19 2013, 08:16PM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers

Huh so that's what happens when The Oilers stand up for themselves. The refs don't allow it. What a BS call on Gagner.

Avatar
#73 **
December 19 2013, 08:18PM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
4
cheers

that was such a bs call on Gagner. Both he and Statsny lumbered each other. If anything take both guys out for 2 minutes. Can't beat the Oilers playing hockey, let's act like a bunch of princesses and get man advantage. Pu$$ies.

Avatar
#74 Serious Gord
December 19 2013, 09:03PM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Hall just missed getting a serious injury on that hit. Crazy reckless way to play.

Avatar
#75 dougtheslug
December 19 2013, 10:23PM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
18
cheers

Please explain to me the coaching soundness of pulling the goalie with over 2 minutes to play. A 2 minute shift at the end of the game is leg destroying for our elite guys and you can see the likelihood of them scoring diminishing with every passing second. That is an Eakins innovation that makes exactly zero sense, and should join the Swarm , the 5 forward powerplay, the Smyth Hemmer Hall first line, the endless line shuffling, the dressing of Gadzic for 3 minutes a game, the benching of Arcobello in favour of Gagner, as conclusive evidence that the Eakins hiring is an abysmal fail. Tho

Avatar
#76 PapaMike
December 19 2013, 10:24PM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
7
cheers
Serious Gord wrote:

Stauffer is hinting that the team is not 100% healthy.

That's what you should expect when a small recalcitrant team plays several heavyweights in succession.

And now the meet arguably the fiercest team in the league - the St. Louis blues.

What are the odds that by Sunday the team will be 0-6?

recalcitrant....we are all drunk now..put away the thesaurus and go away...please try to use small words and pretend you are one of us oiler fans...lol

Avatar
#77 reaperfunkss (2nd tier fan)
December 19 2013, 10:25PM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
4
cheers
Serious Gord wrote:

Looking further ahead on the schedule the next game against cgy should be a real Waterloo. If the oil lose to the flames surely something needs to happen in the mgmt ranks.

trashed it cause i know they wont change anything and it makes me sad. Also propped

Avatar
#78 Serious Gord
December 19 2013, 10:32PM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers
PapaMike wrote:

recalcitrant....we are all drunk now..put away the thesaurus and go away...please try to use small words and pretend you are one of us oiler fans...lol

Had a Coors banquet to start the night then moved into bush mills Black bush single malt Irish whiskey - 3 fingers with about 1/2 teaspoon filtered water. Times two.

I do love my whiskey.

Avatar
#79 @Oilanderp
December 19 2013, 12:56PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
17
cheers
1989: They went 27-46-7 for 61 points. 1990: They were 12-61-7 for 31 points. 1991: They went 16-50-14 for 46 points. 1992: They went 20-28-12 for 52 points.

Good LORD. Now THAT is some losing!

Avatar
#80 Zarny
December 19 2013, 01:44PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
9
cheers
Spydyr wrote:

The Oilers cannot even lose right. If they had lost that last meaningless game at the end of last season to Calgary. Seth Jones would today be an Oiler. Next year when the only true franchise player since Sid becomes available in the draft. I fully expect the Oilers to be out of the lotto pick sweepstakes.

Correction sir, Stamkos was drafted after Crosby.

Avatar
#81 Six Rings
December 19 2013, 01:46PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
9
cheers

Yikes,

31 points in a season and they still had a 100 pt player in Sakic.

I know there was a lot higher scoring back then but jeez. He was still 10th in the league in scoring.

Avatar
#82 VK63
December 19 2013, 02:35PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
6
cheers

Thankful that Sakic could struggle in relative obscurity, rather than the joke of a microscope that exists in todays "expert" heavy hyper analysis media and shirt tail media world.

Avatar
#83 Lochenzo
December 19 2013, 02:38PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
4
cheers
Puck_In_Throat wrote:

I actually like this comparison, but lets think about what the Nordiques (Avs) then did to win a cup:

1) traded the 1st overall pick in the 1991 draft (Lindros) for a package that included Peter Forsberg, Ron Hextall, cash, Chris Simon and Mike Ricci (key role players in their cup runs), and first rounds picks in 93 and 94.

2) traded their 1st overall pick from 1989 (Sundin) to Toronto for Wendel Clark, whom they then flipped the next year in a three way deal to get Claude Lemieux (a proven veteran and a key part of their cup runs, who already had a cup)

3) traded Thibault (from the #1 pick from Philly in the Lindros deal) rucinsky and adrei kovalenko for Patrick Roy, a proven, Conn-Smythe and two time cup-winning goalie. Almost as important, that trade gained the Avs Montreal's captain Mike Keane.

The players acquired by the Nordiques/Avs for all of their young studs had one thing in common: multiple Stanley cup finals appearances.

If the Oilers have any hopes of being like the Avs, they need to recognize a few key pieces (Hall and Nuge IMO) and then maximize the value of other assets such as former 1st overall picks in exchange for proven veteran players.

The most glaring of all of these is the Sundin for Clark-turned Lemieux trade. Not exactly a win in the stats column, but Claude Lemieux had 3 cups already and a history of playoff success. ** Edit** I looked up Lemieux and he in fact had just won the Conn Smythe trophy with the NJD. He also won the cup 4 times. Sundin finished with 600 more points than Lemieux, but 70 less playoff points and 0 cups. Nobody talks about how great Marcel Dionne was because the point of the NHL isn't to score goals, its to win Stanley Cups.

MacT has (hopefully) started on this route by acquiring Ference. But draft picks are no sure thing, and good GMs frequently trade players with "upside" for proven veterans.

I was totally against dealing any of the kids early in the season. This franchise has gone through decades where they were unable to acquire enough skill to win. We had Doug Weight and we had Ales Hemsky, but we couldn't surround them with enough talent to reach the top of the food chain.

But watching this team over this season, I just don't see how they can make the changes required without dealing one or two skilled players.

The Lindros trade was a one off. Trades 2 and 3 are the types that the Oil need to be examining. You lose skill, but you gain other traits such as leadership, guys with a track record of winning, grit, etc. All elements that the Oilers could use a little bit more of.

Avatar
#84 S cottV
December 19 2013, 03:26PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
10
cheers

As compared to Sakic's day, top end young players - feel much more entitled and are less likely to suck it up for any great length of time. Not a criticism - just changes in society between now and then.

No question that Hall would be lights out right now, had he gone number 2 and presently on the Bruins first line with veteran compliments and Chara pushing everthing up ice.

Clearly he has to suck it up, while RNH matures and the Oilers are able to acquire the right mix around these guys. Dont think that Hall has embraced this to the extent that is necessary. You see traces of entitlement in his game and in his demeanor. He should develop his 200 ft game and show more self sacrifice for the good of the team. Comes down to leading better.

It would be easier for Hall to suck it up if the organization was clearly doing its part. Hall must be concerned and this probably makes it harder for him to check his entitlement at the door.

This is the price that Katz pays for less than stellar organizational leadership. When Katz doesn't lead, it is difficult to foster leadership thoughout the organization, including - amongst the player group and specific to team captains, including Hall.

What was a brief period where hockey pundits were predicting a can't miss Oiler resurgence with 3 first overall picks, is giving way to - this doesn't look good and may not happen at all.

So - the Oilers better get it going or today's tendencies toward entitlement will surely gain more and more traction, with Hall and others.

Only way out of this is strong leadership and doing the right things - top to bottom.

Avatar
#85 **
December 19 2013, 03:32PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
5
cheers
S wrote:

Shocking! Your big mouth (keyboard) writes cheques your dukes can't cash! Tuff guy!

what?!?!?!?!?!

Avatar
#87 hall the time
December 19 2013, 04:33PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Lochenzo wrote:

If the Oilers were to deal one of their prized kids, it's an easy answer today to say that the Oil should keep Taylor Hall over Nail Yakupov. But, I think if you dig deeper, this is actually a tough decision. Yak's age-relative stats, with the exception of this year, are superior to Hall's. I've also noticed Yak winning pucks a few more battles along the boards and beating his checks off the wall a lot more as of late. I think he will be an excellent producer off of the cycle very soon.

I just wonder if we do trade Yak, in a few years we might be saying, wow, maybe we should have dealt Hall and kept Yak.

It would depend on what team we traded yak to.

Avatar
#88 Adam
December 19 2013, 04:56PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
6
cheers
Zarny wrote:

Good grief.

Krueger coached this team to 24th place; not 4th.

Fans seem to forget about the 10 game losing streak last year. Krueger's coaching excellence included doing nothing during a 10 game slide.

MacT wasn't even with the franchise last year. He's a GM not God and half the roster needs to be turned over. Are you really daft enough to think that was going to happen by Christmas?

Actually, MacTavish WAS involved in the organization last year, with a hand in the decision making. Krueger said that MacTavish was part of his interview process before he was given the head coaching position.

As for Lowe telling them the time was now to win, that was last spring in a press conference where MacTavish promised to change over a third of the roster to make the team competitive - He did just that over the summer - Ference, Gordon, Perron, Joensuu, Acton, Gazdic, Belov, Larsen, Grebeshkov, LaBarbera and Bryzgalov weren't part of the team last April and Arcobello had played all of one game with the NHL squad. You talk about half the roster being turned over? Well, it already happened. Are we shuffling all those guys out and just bringing in the next shift?

This year, MacTavish has said in more than one interview that his team doesn't have the right mix. Regardless of whether or not he believes that to be true, it's foolish to say so, because he has given his team an excuse for losing. How do you come down on them after they post yet another terrible year if you've said specifically that they aren't built to compete? Not to mention, the pieces that MacTavish has identified as the missing links are among the hardest things for a hockey team to acquire. He's saying they need a top pairing defenceman and a big body, productive forward for the top six. Either of those are big asks, so suggesting that your team can't compete until they're in place? Well, it isn't exactly pushing the team to be the best it can be.

The team needs to be challenged to be better. It just hasn't happened, especially with regards to that inner circle.

Avatar
#89 AdamfromOilfans
December 19 2013, 05:25PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
4
cheers
Jason Gregor wrote:

You seemed to miss the point of the article. The point was that people saying the kids will ask to be traded because of losing is incredibly premature.

Many others players lost a lot early in their career and stayed on their teams...

There was no mention of a correlation to them sucking it up to winning the Cup. I pointed out Tampa only because they won despite some bad trades of high picks. Only 1 team wins every year, the odds the Oilers win is very low even when they become competitive.

Where did I say the current direction of the team was fine?

I said Hall should strive to be the star. I said he should ensure he produces even when the team loses just like Sakic did on brutal teams.

What is the point if not to at least contend for the Cup? Nash and Kovalchuk DID get sick of the losing and moved on. Their teams are still perpetual losers.

Yes, losing might not push players to abandon ship, but A) it doesn't help with retention when they do have options and B) it badly hurts a team's ability to acquire top end talent in the free agent market.

If we need different pieces around the young core, and we can't attract those players, then we're quite possibly on the Atlanta/Columbus model of rebuild - the never-ending ty. It's already clear that we're not following the Chicago or Pittsburgh models any more.

As for getting sick of the losing, I don't know if the players are there yet, but I am. It's been eight years without a single playoff game. How many more does it have to be? I don't care if we keep these guys if it means we turn in to Columbus. What would that matter if we never are competitive? Long odds or not, we need to be Cup contenders, or there's just no point to the whole exercise. Oilers fans have been incredibly patient - but they've been promised a light at the end of the tunnel and that's not just keeping young guys from demanding a trade.

Avatar
#90 Freewheeling Freddie
December 19 2013, 06:47PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
5
cheers

Do you think the Oilers will score a goal tonight? With DD in goal I expect at least 2 softies. This team couldn't even make it to Christmas This could be the worst Oiler team OF ALL TIME. My wife believes all katz owns this team for is to get a tax break. I am starting to believe this to be true. Lowe Smith Bucky must go. Can santa claus make this happen. The hockey gods can be very cruel.The losing culture is getting deeper and deeper.Wake up Daryl

Avatar
#91 D
December 19 2013, 07:31PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
Serious Gord wrote:

1. Re: the young starlings

It has been and remains my opinion that there could be as many as 4 HHOF quality players on this roster, and like many before them they struggle or at least their teams struggle in their early years.

But the sakic/colorado scenario is more the exception rather than the rule.

All too often these player never get the supporting cast they need to become true contenders for - and in some cases winners of the Stanley cup.

And that latter - more common scenario is what seems to be developing here in EDM. And it is what i think is at the root of much of oilersnation frustration. To wit: it looks like supporting calvary/cast (mixed metaphor - actually chimeric metaphor - sorry) of defence, fierceness and goaltending will arrive too late and these stars will have moved elsewhere, been traded to make cap room, or developed very poor habits due to lousy coaching and a lack of veteran mentoring (not all stars are born top percentile leaders like Sakic was).

2. The game tonight has ominous notes going in:

Dubnyk in net is inexcusable. HE has had his chance and should not start unless there is an injury or a bac-to-back. But just as MAct couldnt bear trading Gagner to fill a need but rather signed him to a ridiculous contract he now can't admit defeat with starting the season with DD and yet again throws him into the breach. (i have no doubt that MAct Insisted on DD being played). And that he IS playing is a microcosm of what is wrong with this team's management.

Colorado i bet has had this date marked on the calendar since they got shellacked by the oil two weeks ago...

That said the avs have been struggling and may not respond as well as they may hope to.

AVs win - 4-3 DD lets in two very weak ones...

Serious Gord,

Enjoy reading your comments and also hearing them on the radio. My hope is that Dubnyk is starting because the Oil are trying to showcase him to move him to . . . anywhere.

If that's not the case, then Dubnyk playing tonight (or any night where Bryz or BTO are available) is mismanagement to the core.

Avatar
#92 vetinari
December 19 2013, 08:20PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
5
cheers
Rocket wrote:

Huh so that's what happens when The Oilers stand up for themselves. The refs don't allow it. What a BS call on Gagner.

Live, I thought that Gags was totally in the wrong but it the replay, you could see that he got high sticked in the jaw first... I would have likely done the same thing too to Statsny... I hate to say it, it leaves us one centre short but after how he's recently been playing, sitting out the rest of the game may not necessarily be a bad thing.

Avatar
#93 Hauk15
December 19 2013, 08:26PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
6
cheers

5 minute major and a game? Weak. Garbage call. Gags mouth was busted open bleeding but no lets give him a major.

Avatar
#94 Johnnydapunk
December 19 2013, 08:30PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

So that's what happens when you hit Gags in the face, fair play.

The call as much as it annoys me, is not terribly wrong wrong as he did cross check him in the throat/face. I would have thought that a double minor would have been suitable as he did seem concerned right after that happened. I also know that "sympathy" is not a big deal, but most times when a player does something violent, they aren't checking up on them, seemingly trying to stop play.

I don't know what you would call what Stastny did as it wasn't really high sticking, and if you are all technical about what a cross check is, it's not that either, but it is something, maybe hooking ?

Maybe Gags should be getting a bar or two between that open space that he has between his visor and half itech shield thing.

Hopefully they can kill the rest of it and perhaps some on the fly line rotation could be good.

They got the first goal out of the way, and that usually means they can at least beat Varlamov, so fingers crossed, the result could be positive.

Avatar
#95 Alsker
December 19 2013, 08:38PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers

Well that was inevitable, now to kill off the rest of Samwises major..

Avatar
#96 Rocket
December 19 2013, 08:40PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers

OK The Avalanche completely dominated the first period. Physically, pace-of-play, puck possession etc. but The Oilers were winning so I thought that was cool.

But those two late calls against The Oilers were bogus and now Oiler players are not sure what the refs are gonna call. WTF!

Avatar
#97 Cubsfan
December 19 2013, 09:12PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
8
cheers

I think the Oilers should decline the penalty and thus the powerplay....can you do that?

Avatar
#98 reaperfunkss (2nd tier fan)
December 19 2013, 09:14PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
7
cheers
vetinari wrote:

Another SH goal????

We've totally abandoned putting a player directly in front of the opposition's net and we now go with a wide umbrella formation around the perimeter and when he give up a turnover near the blue line, it's always an odd man rush back. Fix this Eakins...

Eakins Rocks!! Coach of the year finalist for sure.

Avatar
#99 Mikey
December 19 2013, 09:19PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
8
cheers
reaperfunkss (2nd tier fan) wrote:

Eakins Rocks!! Coach of the year finalist for sure.

Yea because he was the one who made the retarded pass.

Avatar
#100 redhot1
December 19 2013, 09:22PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
35
cheers

Best 2nd and 3rd period I've seen Gagner play

Comments are closed for this article.