GDB 37.0: ASK SAKIC?

Jason Gregor
December 19 2013 12:29PM

As the Oilers get set to face the Colorado Avalanche trying to end a four game losing streak, Taylor Hall and company can take solace in knowing that some other young stars endured many years of losing, before tasting the sweet nectar of victory.

They should ask Joe Sakic, the Avalanche's Executive Vice President of Hockey Operations, about losing. He lost way more than these kids have early in his career, and it didn't break him, and he didn't pout about it. He persevered and became a Hall of Famer.

Hall has played 200 games, Eberle has been in 231 games, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins has dressed in 136, while Nail Yakupov is at 82 games and Justin Schultz has played 76. No one should be suggesting that all the losing is going to wear down these kids. I don't believe any of them are that fragile, but even if they thought about having a pity party, they should do a quick search of Joe Sakic's career.

Sakic was drafted 15th overall in 1987 by the Quebec Nordiques. He played one more season in Swift Current before debuting with the Nordiques in October of 1988. Keep in mind that in his first three seasons he played in a 21-team league where 16 teams made the playoffs.

In Sakic's first three seasons, the Nordiques finished dead last every year. The Nordiques drafted 1st, 1st, 1st and 4th in his first four NHL seasons.

1989: They went 27-46-7 for 61 points.
1990: They were 12-61-7 for 31 points.
1991: They went 16-50-14 for 46 points.
1992: They went 20-28-12 for 52 points.

In 1993, they were literally twice as good picking up 104 points going 47-27-10, but in 1994 Sakic and the Nordiques dipped back down to 76 points with a 34-42-8 record.

In his first four seasons, Sakic's Nordiques won a measly 75 of the 320 games they played. Sakic dressed in 299 of those games, and he learned much more about losing than he did winning.

Despite all the losses Sakic played exceptionally well.

YEAR       GP      G       A      PTS
1989        70      23     39      62 
1990        80      39     63     102
1991        80      48     61     109
1992        69      29     65      94

In 1990, the second leading scorer on the Nordiques was Peter Stastny with 62 points in 62 games before being traded. In 1991, Sakic had 50 more points than his closest teammate; Mats Sundin tallied 59 points.

Sakic didn't let the losing get to him. He kept battling and kept producing. 

WINNERS KEEP WORKING DESPITE LOSING  

Hall played his 200th game on Tuesday, and despite another loss, Hall, Eberle and Nugent-Hopkins haven't come close to experiencing the type of losing that Sakic had to face.

Hall's Oilers have played 248 games since he entered the league and they've won 87 of those. Sakic's team won 75 of 320 during his first four seasons. Losing sucks and I'm sure it can wear down a player, but if Hall wants to become one of the greats he needs to keep playing hard, and hope that eventually he will be surrounded by better players. He needs to continue to show determination and play strong, and like Sakic, at times he will need to carry the Oilers on his back.

Hall was the Oilers most dangerous forward in LA. He needs to keep playing like that, regardless of where the Oilers are in the standings or how often they are losing. Hall has the ability to be a franchise player, and considering how much he has improved in his last 100 games, I suspect he'll only keep getting better.

I've heard some people suggesting the kids will get tired of losing and want out of Edmonton, but competitive people don't think like that. There will be games where they look frustrated, and understandably so, but many elite players have started their NHL careers tasting defeat more often than victory, and the last thing that Hall or any of his teammates will do is feel sorry for themselves.

They need to be part of the solution, and when they start to win the victories will be more fulfilling because of what they learned in their first few seasons.

MORE TOUGH STARTS...

Mario Lemieux missed the playoffs in his first four seasons, and five of his first six. The Penguins drafted 2nd, 4th, 5th and 4th in his first four years.

Steven Stamkos has missed the playoffs four of his first five seasons. The Bolts have drafted 2nd, 6th, 10th and 3rd during those four losing seasons.

John Tavares has missed the playoffs three of his first four years, and the Islanders are poised to miss the postseason again. They have drafted 4th, 5th and 5th thus far in his non-playoff seasons.

Rick Nash played five full seasons without the playoffs, and he missed the dance in 8 of his first 9 years.

Ilya Kovalchuk missed the postseason his first four years and seven of his first eight seasons.

Vincent Lecavalier missed the playoffs his first four seasons. The Bolts were scheduled to pick 1st, 5th, 3rd and 4th in those years.

**Sidenote**.. Rick Dudley was the GM for Tampa Bay in 1999 and he traded the 1st overall pick. He moved down to 4th, and then traded again and didn't pick until 47th. He ended up with Dan Cloutier, Andrei Zyuzin, Shawn Burr and the Rangers 1st round pick in 2000. He could have used the first pick on Patrik Stefan or one of the Sedins, although those two had made it known they really wanted to play together.

The next year, Dudley traded the 5th pick to the Islanders for Kevin Weekes, Kristian Kurdroc and the 31st pick. The Islanders selected Raffi Torres. Despite these horrific deals, the Lightning still won the Cup in 2004. ***

Losing stinks but Hall and company aren't the first group of young stars to endure losing seasons, so let's stop the suggestions that they will want out of Edmonton. Anyone in the media or fan base who suggests these kids have endured too much losing need only look at the career paths of other young stars. Rarely is it an instant path to success.

Winning is difficult and as painful as these past few seasons have been for Hall and company, they need to learn from it, and be willing to ensure they improve their play so the team becomes more successful. Hall is good enough to lead this team to better times ahead, and he'll likely inspire his teammates to follow him in the coming seasons.

LINEUP...

Hall-RNH-Eberle
Perron-Gagner-Yakupov
Smyth-Gordon-Hemsky
Jones-Lander-Gazdic

Ference-Petry
N.Schultz-J.Schultz
Belov-Larsen

Dubnyk

Arcobello got rocked by Drew Doughty in the 3rd period of Tuesday's 3-0 loss to the Kings, and hasn't skated since. Lander will draw in for Arcobello. 

The Oilers will need to get scoring chances from someone other than Hall tonight. The Avalanche are 6-5-1 in their last 12, and after a 16-5 start they are starting to look more like the team people expected. They aren't a force like the Kings, Bruins or Ducks, but they will provide another solid test for the Oilers.

Dubnyk gets the start. I'm not one who buys into the "Dubnyk plays better when pushed" theory; however, it is obvious that Dubnyk needs to be more consistent.  I want a goalie who plays well regardless of who he shares the net with.

WHAT SEE YOU?

GAME DAY PREDICTION: The Oilers will end their trip on a high, with a 4-2 victory in Denver.

OBVIOUS GAME DAY PREDICTION: Bordeleau and Gazdic drop the gloves. Fight fans love it, while anti-fight crowd will complain. This will never change.

NOT-SO-OBVIOUS GAME DAY PREDICTION: Usually it is former Oilers scoring against Edmonton, but tonight Ryan Smyth bucks that trend and scores against his former team ending his 10-game goal scoring drought. In 16 home games, Erik Johnson has only been a minus player twice, but he ends up -1 tonight.

DAY 15 MONTH OF GIVING...

Yesterday we raised another $3,850 bringing our total to $58,700. Incredible. Thank you.

Today's packages include:

Package #1:

Today's package is courtesy of The Maximum Fighting Championship:

  • Two season tickets to all three MFC shows in Edmonton in 2014, starting January 17th.
  • VIP dinner for two at the Shaw conference centre prior to each show.
  • Be a cornerman during one of the fights... **You must be 16 years of age or older***

Package #2:

  • $1,000 gift certificate/store credit at Reside Furnishings
  • Pair of club seats (section 112 row 14) for Oilers vs. Penguins on January 10th.
  • $50 bucks in Oilers money to use at the game for beer or food.

You can bid by calling 780.444.1260 or 1.800.243.1945 between 2-6 p.m. today.

Thanks in advance. All proceeds will go to the Christmas Bureau.

RECENTLY BY JASON GREGOR 

Ddf3e2ba09069c465299f3c416e43eae
One of Canada's most versatile sports personalities. Jason hosts The Jason Gregor Show, weekdays from 2 to 6 p.m., on TSN 1260, and he writes a column every Monday in the Edmonton Journal. You can follow him on Twitter at twitter.com/JasonGregor
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#151 Jordan Nugent-Hallkins
December 19 2013, 09:21PM
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I love the Oilers, but I hate this team. I think that makes sense?

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#152 Rod from Viking
December 19 2013, 09:26PM
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@Jason Gregor

Great article and makes you think a little different, they Avalanche still drafted a better core than the Oilers have and would not have won without Roy. Why don't you see if you can get Burnaby Joe on your show sometime?

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#153 2004Z06
December 19 2013, 09:37PM
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vetinari wrote:

What frustrates me the most is that the old system worked better and Eakins keeps stubbornly ramming this system down our throats. It doesn't work. Teams pressure the lone defenceman (and I use that term loosely) at the point and there's always a turnover. Always. Spread out two defenceman who can bomb the puck at the points, bring a centre to obstruct the goalie and have the wingers cycle for position. Why the heck does he keep going back to the wide umbrella???

What system? I don't understand the ire against this so called system.

Clearly the Oilers have no system whatsoever!

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#154 vetinari
December 19 2013, 09:38PM
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You know, I wasn't necessarily expecting a playoff spot this year but I was expecting:

1. a competitive team every night; 2. more consistency, development and less mistakes from the kids (Hall, Eberle, RNH, Yak and J. Schultz) and from the journeymen (Gagner and Dubnyk); 3. more leadership and structure from the veterans; 4. more tactical coaching from the "hot shot AHL" guy that every team was courting in the offseason; 5. some bold moves to fill out the roster. Heck, I would even settle for some "not necessarily bold but definitely practical and necessary moves" at this point; and, 6. meaningful games at least until the trade deadline.

This year has definitely been a step back for the organization in most facets. Sure, there have been some goods things (acquiring Perron, signing Boyd), but the bad definitely outweighs the good. This is the first time that I've said it but we are "rebuilding the rebuild". How many more years from here???

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#155 BingBong
December 19 2013, 09:40PM
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Having Schultz or Larsen play the point on the pp is always a disaster. Neither can shoot, both consistently turn the puck over, and neither can defend after said turnover.

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#156 Jordan Nugent-Hallkins
December 19 2013, 09:50PM
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Something's gotta give with this power play system. I don't remember ever being so apprehensive about going on the man advantage.

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#157 dougtheslug
December 19 2013, 09:56PM
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I haven't bothered to look this up but I believe over the past five games the oilers power play has been outscored by the opposition penalty kill. What does this say about how this team is being managed?

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#158 vetinari
December 19 2013, 09:57PM
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Quicksilver ballet wrote:

I know Yak is learning to play away from the puck, but there certainly appears to be a rift between Nail and Eakins.

Dallas is turning him into a 4th line mucker.

I don't know if I've heard very many of the players publicly support Eakins other than the basic "ra ra, know we need to dig deeper" crap, but I've never heard anyone say that they'd go through a wall for him or that he was a great teacher or that he knew what he was doing... at least nothing like I heard them say about Krueger or Renney. I think Yak actually loved playing for Krueger, but he's not a fan of Eakins and his indirect trade request earlier this season was a sign of that. Yak will be the first of the kiddie 5 to be traded-- watch...

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#159 reaperfunkss (2nd tier fan)
December 19 2013, 10:03PM
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2 minutes from another moral victory

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#160 Alsker
December 19 2013, 10:03PM
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Quicksilver ballet wrote:

I know Yak is learning to play away from the puck, but there certainly appears to be a rift between Nail and Eakins.

Dallas is turning him into a 4th line mucker.

Wasn't that what we were saying MacT was doing with our offensive guys a few years(coaches) ago?? No wonder he hired Eakins, saw lots of himself in him.

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#161 Alsker
December 19 2013, 10:05PM
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Alright, the two minute empty net drill again....

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#162 Brian
December 19 2013, 10:06PM
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And another thing ...., someone tell Louie Debozo that a real neat , cutesy nickname for "blue paint " is.... Crease . Try it, Lou. Viewers will love it .

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#163 vetinari
December 19 2013, 10:07PM
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I thought that we were the only ones that could miss an empty net... multiple times too!

EDIT: Apparently, the tenth time is the charm... 4-2 Avalanche...

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#164 reaperfunkss (2nd tier fan)
December 19 2013, 10:08PM
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4 out 5 moral victories!!!!! Lowetide will love it

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#165 **
December 19 2013, 10:09PM
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Another game, another loss. Good night.

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#166 Serious Gord
December 19 2013, 10:09PM
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Calgary got yet another loser point and are now 7 ahead and with two games at hand.

Oh, the humanity!!

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#167 I tried it at home
December 19 2013, 10:11PM
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ok, lets see... 1 - 5 on 5 goal. 1 - shorthanded goal 1 - powerplay goal 1 - empty net goal

So, do the Av's win a prize?

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#168 Alsker
December 19 2013, 10:12PM
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Moral victory...baahhh more like another immoral lose...

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#169 vetinari
December 19 2013, 10:17PM
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Let me help the coaching staff with the post game interview. You need to acknowledge the outcome but not hurt the feelings of the players. In fact, acknowledge a few of them in some way, whether their long term play warrants it or not because you may need to build up their trade value.

"Yeah. Not the outcome that we wanted. We came out flat and were lucky to be up 2-1 when they got that SH goal. We gotta be better. The PP will be the focus of our next few days. Dubnyk played good tonight. Gagner didn't deserve the game misconduct. We need to move past this loss and look ahead to our next game."

Spin-doctoring 101 right there folks...

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#170 Sailge
December 19 2013, 10:25PM
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Positives:

Scored 2 goals tonight, makes 4 goals total.... On the 4 game road trip

Gagner was even tonight... Haha

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#171 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
December 19 2013, 10:25PM
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mlcselli wrote:

Dubnyk is between the pipes. Gagner is on the second line. Eakins is the class clown. Battle of the rookie coaches and we tank even further. Looking for some hope. #Unfrickenreal

Now that's a game day prediction!

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#172 vetinari
December 19 2013, 10:27PM
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I used to think that the young players like RNH, Hall an Eberle were the face of the franchise... now, when I think of the Oilers, I think of the draft and Katz's curly haired son standing next to his new first round flavour of the year-- Katz's son is the new face of Oiler's hockey!!! Someone, please put a cut out of this young lad out in front of Rexall so that fans can stand next to it and have their pictures taken, just like on draft day. The draft is now my Stanley Cup!

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#173 Arius Mumin
December 19 2013, 10:31PM
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vetinari wrote:

I used to think that the young players like RNH, Hall an Eberle were the face of the franchise... now, when I think of the Oilers, I think of the draft and Katz's curly haired son standing next to his new first round flavour of the year-- Katz's son is the new face of Oiler's hockey!!! Someone, please put a cut out of this young lad out in front of Rexall so that fans can stand next to it and have their pictures taken, just like on draft day. The draft is now my Stanley Cup!

I would donate $25-50 to any charity to have my picture taken with a Katz Kids Kut out. Maybe we can have it done for the next draft party at the Pint.

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#174 reaperfunkss (2nd tier fan)
December 19 2013, 10:36PM
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Guys you are starting to get me worried with all the boozing. Think of your livers. I propose a potential class action lawsuit against Rexall, Katz, Lowe and Pronger for the damage to our brain thingers and liverses. We should seek out damages (save your reciepts) in money spent on beer and alcohol (weed as well?) and about 350 mill for arena costs.

Wonder what meth is like? heard lots about it

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#175 Alsker
December 19 2013, 10:46PM
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reaperfunkss (2nd tier fan) wrote:

Guys you are starting to get me worried with all the boozing. Think of your livers. I propose a potential class action lawsuit against Rexall, Katz, Lowe and Pronger for the damage to our brain thingers and liverses. We should seek out damages (save your reciepts) in money spent on beer and alcohol (weed as well?) and about 350 mill for arena costs.

Wonder what meth is like? heard lots about it

First off I don't even want to know how much $ I'm flushing watching this crap. Secondly sounds like you're not sharing. What were we talking about?

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#176 S cottV
December 19 2013, 10:55PM
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I don't know - it's not looking good for Eakins. Don't like the body language and lack of response to things going on. Just a dead@ss stare. Do something - a battle cry, lead a cheer, throw a water bottle - anything to show some fight. He doesn't have the street cred in this league to try looking cool and collected under fire - with no response other than a blank stare. Motivate your guys Dallas - show your humanity - even your vulnerability. Give them something to rally around and maybe they will try to save your @ss.

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#177 Rod from Viking
December 19 2013, 11:05PM
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Serious Gord wrote:

LOL between my tears at the thought of Lowe and MacT at the podium announcing the pick.

We will get to see if Katz kid has been on the Eakins diet and workout program,he should also be at least a foot taller since the Oiler's first lotto pick.

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#178 S cottV
December 19 2013, 11:22PM
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@Rod from Viking

Yeah Rod - that has always bothered me. Like what were those kids doing in the room while team execs pondered the Hall vs Seguin decision in Oil Change? My God - Now boys make sure you don't text your friends about the decision we just made - ha ha ha. Mickey Mouse Club..

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#179 john
December 19 2013, 11:24PM
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Eakins is way over his head in coaching this team, the problem began in preseason they didn't play the main core so they get chemistry together. Instead they played other young players for auditioning then sent them back to the farm and junior teams. Now the team is struggling to jell together and have chemistry. The lines have no set plays when they in other team zone, they should watch the old tapes of the Gretzky team games and learn their set plays. The drop passes, the no look pass, the dump ins. Each player should know where the puck is going and their linemates are going on offense. On defense the 5 players come back as a unit, forwards cover the open men support their defensemen. When they control the puck in their zone then come back to attack as a unit. Too many individual moves out there, puck carrier don't look up to see where his team mates are to pass the puck to. They kept turning the puck over and give aways for the other team to score against.

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#180 Arius Mumin
December 19 2013, 11:37PM
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vetinari wrote:

Those three are also young, inexperienced and not able to physically manhandle opposing players yet. They need support and experience around them to show them the ropes. Teams like Boston, Detroit and LA can bring in young players easier by putting them on lines where they have veteran experience. We need to trade for actual NHL players at this point and not picks or prospects.

How long before those three young, inexperienced Oilers are physically able to manhandle opposing players?

If neither one of the three are able to handle the physicallity of the game on their own: what sense does it make to play them together? What is the benefit in that?

This is also not their first time at the rodeo. They have and had experienced players around them to show them the ropes.

Is Smyth not an actual NHL veteran? Horcoff? Ference? I could go on.

How many actual NHL players do the Oilers need?

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#181 YAKCITY64
December 20 2013, 12:03AM
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Guys, STOP DRINKING when you all get liver disease and you have to buy your medication guess where you will buy that medication.... REXALL its totally a conspiracy and Katz business plan. 1. Buy the Oilers 2. Let 6 rings run it into the ground. 3. Watch all the fans start drinking 4. $$$$$$

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#182 bob
December 20 2013, 01:18AM
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Serious Gord wrote:

Stauffer is hinting that the team is not 100% healthy.

That's what you should expect when a small recalcitrant team plays several heavyweights in succession.

And now the meet arguably the fiercest team in the league - the St. Louis blues.

What are the odds that by Sunday the team will be 0-6?

of course he did,.....didnt yousee macT sitting next to him during broadcast.......bobs on a very short leash when it come to criticizing the oilers these days

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#183 Stan_the_Caddy
December 20 2013, 01:30AM
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Not trying to make excuses for a pathetic team, but can someone please explain the officiating tonight? I was at the game tonight and Gags' penalty was CLEARLY announced by the ref as "2 minutes for high sticking" (~thank goodness for their mics so that everyone knows what's going on~) then suddenly Gags is sent off after the replay on the Jumbotron and the penalty changed to cross checking? Not to mention all the bogus icing calls early in the game? It's bad enough we have to watch this Mickey Mouse team. I've just about had it with this league. I think I'll start spending my time and money on something else.

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#184 D
December 20 2013, 01:45AM
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Serious Gord wrote:

Stauffer is hinting that the team is not 100% healthy.

That's what you should expect when a small recalcitrant team plays several heavyweights in succession.

And now the meet arguably the fiercest team in the league - the St. Louis blues.

What are the odds that by Sunday the team will be 0-6?

He-he. Stauffer.

Guess everything will be great when they get healthy again . . . in about five years.

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#185 camdog
December 20 2013, 09:05AM
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Serious Gord wrote:

Stauffer is hinting that the team is not 100% healthy.

That's what you should expect when a small recalcitrant team plays several heavyweights in succession.

And now the meet arguably the fiercest team in the league - the St. Louis blues.

What are the odds that by Sunday the team will be 0-6?

LOL I listen to Bob a lot, he says this every season.

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#186 camdog
December 20 2013, 09:05AM
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Serious Gord wrote:

Stauffer is hinting that the team is not 100% healthy.

That's what you should expect when a small recalcitrant team plays several heavyweights in succession.

And now the meet arguably the fiercest team in the league - the St. Louis blues.

What are the odds that by Sunday the team will be 0-6?

LOL I listen to Bob a lot, he says this every season.

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#187 2004Z06
December 20 2013, 09:14AM
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Naky wrote:

Here's a question for the stats guys, has pulling the goaltender ever worked for Eakins this year so far? Because I'm almost positive that it has not and that, even worse, it has more or less guaranteed a goal scored against us in almost every instance.

I only ask because I'm absolutely blown away that he has not quite clued in that his powerplay structure is so poorly implemented that it has lead to a staggering amount of SH goals and quality scoring chances against... and he thinks pulling the goalie for the extra attacker is still a good idea.

As far as I concerned, the third and fourth goals are entirely on Eakins.

No blame for J. Schultz or Devin Dubnyk here?

So it was Eakins that made that idiotic pass attempt to Hall instead of going the other way to the open man?

Really now?

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#188 Joe Mamma
December 20 2013, 12:03PM
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Serious Gord wrote:

Had a Coors banquet to start the night then moved into bush mills Black bush single malt Irish whiskey - 3 fingers with about 1/2 teaspoon filtered water. Times two.

I do love my whiskey.

"Started with beer, now on my second whiskey."

There, I made it less pretentious and douchebag-y. Now you almost fit in Gord. You're welcome.

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#189 Tikkanese
December 20 2013, 01:16PM
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MessyEH! wrote:

I like the way ROY and Sakic did business leading up to the draft. "We're taking Mackinion that's it!"

Oilers have to consult with all the ghosts of Oilers past and Stevie Y before making the decision. They treat it like an episode of the Bachelor. So much drama and spectacle to determine who next they select to screw.

So you'd rather announce pre-draft your pick? Not having a chance at getting a trade offer you can't refuse?

So many possibilities can happen by not announcing your pick pre-draft. Even the team picking 2nd overall may be nervous about who you're taking and offer something great to swap picks. Not to mention forgoing all the free press coverage hilighting your team and the anticipation, excitement and hype built off of that?

I like how the Oilers and every other team does it.

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