GDB: 38.0: OILERS WANTED THIS...

Jason Gregor
December 23 2013 12:23PM

 

The Oilers asked for this.

During the past few seasons members of the Oilers management have made references to wanting to build their team in the same vain as Chicago and Pittsburgh. I have no idea if they will ever have the same success as those two franchises, but right now they are emulating the struggles and lack of success that both those franchises endured before becoming two of the best teams in the NHL.

I've cautioned people who only looked at the rebuilds of Chicago and Pittsburgh as blueprints for the Oilers, because the harsh reality is that for every Chicago there are two franchises like Columbus or Atlanta/Winnipeg, and for every Pittsburgh there is a Florida and the New York Islanders.

It was great for the Oilers to aspire to be like the Blackhawks and Penguins, but that was always the "best case scenario."

Many readers won't want to read this, but the truth remains this is only year four of the Oilers rebuild. The previous four seasons were not part of the rebuild. They were four seasons of bad management. That doesn't excuse the Oilers, specifically Kevin Lowe who has been here for all eight years, but if you are someone who was in favour of the rebuild in 2010 then you have to accept the harsh reality of the current timeline.

It is rare for teams to rebuild in a short period of time. The problem is i'm not sure the Oilers truly understood how hard the journey would be. Did they expect this much losing? If so, why did they change coaches every year? It is fair to question if they truly had a plan, and it is more than fair to question whether they have the fortitude or smarts to follow it through and make the correct decisions to become a winner.

When the Oilers management suggested they wanted to follow in the footsteps of the Hawks and Penguins, I wonder if they knew exactly what that entailed? Did they know that the Blackhawks made the playoffs once in ten seasons between 1998 and 2008?

The Hawks didn't have a few years of losing; they had a decade of it.

1998: 9th worst record. Drafted 8th (Mark Bell) after a deal with Toronto
1999: 7th worst record. Won lottery, moved up to 4th spot, then traded that pick for Bryan McCabe and the 11th pick in 2000. McCabe played one season in Chicago before being dealt to Toronto for Alex Karpotvsev and a pick.
2000: 8th worst record. Picked 10th, due to Minnesota and Columbus entering league, and selected Mikhail Yakubov 10th and used the 11th pick on Pavel Vorobiev. 
2001: 9th worst record and they selected Tuomo Ruutu 9th.
2002: Made the playoffs. Finished 5th in the west, four points ahead of 9th. Their top six scoring forward were there in 2001 and Jocelyn Thibault was the starter both years, but they added Phil Housley and Jon Klemm on the blueline. They were #2 and #3 in TOI behind Boris Mironov. They made a very smart pick in the 2nd round selecting Duncan Keith 45th overall.
2003: 14th worst record. They selected Brent Seabrook. They took Corey Crawford in the 2nd round and Dustin Byfuglien in the 9th.
2004: 2nd worst record. Washington won the lottery so the Hawks dropped to 3rd and picked Cam Barker after missing out on Ovechkin and Malkin. The Hawks had 17 draft picks that year and took Dave Bolland 32nd, Bryan Bickell 41st and Troy Brouwer 214th. 
2005: No season, but they picked 7th after the lottery and took Jack Skille. They chose Niklas Hjalmarsson 108th overall.
2006: 3rd worst record. They happily took Jonathan Toews at #3.
2007: 5th worst record. They won the lottery and took Patrick Kane first overall. (Sidenote, the Oilers never would have gotten Kane. Had they lost their final game of the season to the Flames they would have finished with the 4th worst record not the fifth.)
2008: 11th worst record. Took Kyle Beach with the 11th pick.

During the first half of that decade of losing none of the Hawks top picks made an impact in Chicago, however, between 2002-2007 the foundation of their team was built through the draft. Kane, Toews, Seabrook, Keith, Hjalmarsson, Crawford, Bickell, Bolland, Brouwer and Byfuglien were all key players in one or both of their Stanley Cup victories.

However, it wasn't like they planned to go from being a playoff team in 2002, to missing out by one point in 2003 to being a bottom three team in 2004, 2006 and 2007. You can make a strong argument that their most important decision came from a stroke of luck; winning the draft lottery.

Toews is the heart and soul of that team, but Kane is his deadly sidekick, and I don't see them winning the Cup without Kane. You need some luck and good fortune along the way to win a Cup, but to become a consistent contender you need to build the majority of the key pieces via the draft.

The Oilers have an excellent chance of mirroring the Hawks decade of losing, but they will be hard pressed to go from being a bottom feeder to a Cup contender like the Hawks, because no two paths to Cup success are the same.

The Oilers don't have a Keith or Seabrook right now. You can argue that Petry could be their Hjalmarsson and Eberle was an outstanding pick at #22, but other than a long stretch of losing, I've never made the direct comparison between the two organizations.

The Hawks stunk for a decade, and if Bill Wirtz hadn't passed away in the fall of 2007, I wonder if the Hawks would have had the same success. Wirtz was a very generous man who donated millions of dollars to the Boys and Girls Clubs and other charities, but he was incredibly frugal when it came to the Blackhawks. For years he wouldn't show Blackhawks' home games on television. He alienated his fans to the point that when the Blackhawks held a moment of silence in his honour prior to a game in October of 2007 some fans booed.

The Hawks success was a combination of good drafting, some lottery luck and a change in leadership.

Will the Oilers do the same?

WHAT ABOUT PITTSBURGH?

Most people know that the Penguins had five consecutive top-five picks between 2002-2006, but prior to those five lean years the Penguins were a great organization.

The Penguins made the playoffs for 11 consecutive seasons before missing them in 2002. Jaromir Jagr entered the NHL in 1990/1991 and that is when the Penguins 11-year streak began. They also had some guy named Mario Lemieux who was also pretty good.

Jagr came in when their run started, and when he was traded on July 11th, 2001that marked the beginning of their five years in suckville.

The Penguins made it to the conference finals in 2001, losing 4-1 to New Jersey, but Jagr was traded that summer and Lemieux only played 26 games in 2002.

2002: 5th worst record. They drafted Ryan Whitney. They also selected Max Talbot 234th overall.
2003: 2nd worst record. Florida won the lottery and had the first pick. The Penguins had the 3rd choicel, and they moved that pick along with the 55th pick (Stefan Meyer) and Mikael Samuelsson to Florida for the 1st and 73rd pick (Daniel Carcillo).The Penguins took Marc-Andre Fleury first overall.
2004: Worst record in the NHL. Washington won the lottery and picked first, (Ovechkin) and the Penguins grabbed Evgeni Malkin at #2. They took Alex Goligoski 61st and Tyler Kennedy 99th.
2005: No season. The history of the Penguins changed due to luck. They won the lottery and had the pleasure of selecting Sidney Crosby. They chose Kris Letang 62nd that year as well.
2006: 2nd worst record. They selected Jordan Staal 2nd overall.

There is no Crosby in Edmonton, and on any other team for that matter, so it is very difficult for the Oilers to follow the Penguins' path to success. The Penguins drafted three centres, one goalie and a D-man who they used in a trade to acquire Chris Kunitz.

The Penguins went from being very good to terrible in the span of 10 months.

Their five-year drought was painful, but they got Crosby and Malkin; two of the top-five players in the NHL. It is impossible to match that blueprint. The Penguins also got an elite D-man in the 3rd round, similar to the Blackhawks landing Keith.

The Oilers are on pace to grab their 5th consecutive pick in the top-seven, and while that will put them on par with the draft positioning of the Penguins, it doesn't mean their five picks will be as impactful as the Penguins. Just like the Hawks, the Penguins caught a huge break by winning the lottery and selecting a dynamic and dominant player.

The Oilers have also won the lottery, but Nail Yakupov hasn't come close to matching the early success of Kane or Crosby. He likely will produce more in the future, but I don't ever see him being in the same category as those two players.

The one similarity that I do see unfolding with the Oilers, that we also saw in Pittsburgh and Chicago, will be trading away one of their top-five picks.

The Hawks moved Cam Barker for Kim Johnsson and Nick Leddy, while the Pens moved Whitney for Kunitz and after winning a Cup, they had to move (pending UFA) Staal for Brandon Sutter and Derrick Pouliot.

The Oilers are similar to the Penguins in their draft position, and are on the verge of being on par with the Blackhawks when it comes to a decade of losing. Now, it is up to MacTavish to see if he can build this team into a contender. They still have a lot of work to do.

WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

  • It is great to have a goal to strive for, but the I've always felt it was a bit of pipedream to believe you could emulate the road to success of the Penguins or Blackhawks. The fact is there is no guarantee of success in the NHL.
     
  • Having consecutive top-five picks should give you a good base, but only if you use the picks properly. Either you pick the best combination of players, or you pick the ones that you will be able to move for assets in the future. The Oilers aren't in a position to trade one of those picks today, but they will need to in the future.
     
  • The other difference between the Oilers and the Hawks and Penguins thus far is drafting depth outside of a top-ten pick. The Blackhawks built the depth of their team through the draft, and many of them were a bit more mature by the time Kane and Toews burst on the scene.
     
  • The Penguins surrounded their young players with productive and experienced players. In 2008 when they lost in the Cup final, they added Hal Gill, Pascal Dupuis and Marian Hossa. The next year when they won the Cup they acquired Kunitz, Bill Guerin and Craig Adams. The Oilers will need to make smart moves and acquire some veterans to support their young stars.
     
  • The Penguins Cup winning blueline consisted of draft picks, Letang, Rod Scuderi (134th pick, 1998) and Brooks Orpik (18th, 2000), acquired Gill and two free agent signings in Sergie Gonchar (2005) and Mark Eaton (2006).
     
  • The Hawks also had three drafted D-men on their blueline in Keith, Seabrook and Hjalmarsson.
     
  • The only drafted D-man the Oilers curently have on the roster is Petry. We expect Oscar Klefbom, Darnell Nurse and possibly Martin Marincin to play in the future, but if the Oilers are going to succeed then one of those three will need to be an impact player within three seasons. That is a lot to ask of a young D-man.
     
  • If I had to pick, I'd say the Oilers have a better chance of following the Penguins path than the Blackhawks, strictly because the Hawks D-men were more mature than their forwards when they won. The Penguins went out and signed a veteran top-pairing D-man in Gonchar, which is a more realistic option for the Oilers. They either trade for one this summer or try and sign one via free agency this summer.
     
  • Trading or signing an elite D-man is going to be extremely difficult. If they don't go that route, I don't see how this team can take the steps needed to becoming a competitive team.
     
  • I understand the frustration amongst Oilers fans. You are sick of watching a losing product, and you should be. However, the Oilers haven't been rebuilding for eight years. From 2007-2010 they tried being competitive, but they failed. They made some questionable trades and free agent signings, and the only reason they actually went into a rebuild was due to numerous injuries to key players during the 2009/2010 season. They didn't plan to rebuild, it just unfolded that way.
     
  • That doesn't excuse Kevin Lowe, far from it, but the biggest mistake the Oilers could make today is to try and speed up the rebuild. If they need to fire someone within the organization to appease their fans, then they have to do it, but if they try to deviate from their original plan, or try and speed up the process, then there is a very good chance they will end up driving this team into an even longer cycle of losing. They have to see the process through, and accept that there might be some empty seats in the process. If they try to change the plan now, they likely will screw it up even worse.
     
  • Eakins was pretty fired up about the fan who threw his jersey on the ice. "That's a bunch of bull crap. Whoever through that jersey on the ice is a quitter and they're out. I never want our players to quit," said Eakins. Every sports team values the jersey, it is very symbolic and I see why the coach didn't like it. He was okay with fans booing, said his team deserved it, but the jersey was offside. I'm guessing this will be a hot topic amongst Oiler fans. Some I spoke to loved it, while others felt it was disrespectful to the jersey.
     
  • My personal opinion on it is this. Eakins is in a no win situation. They didn't need another distraction, although I'm guessing that was his plan. Have fans hate him, not the team.

    Also...If the fan who threw it is officially done with the Oilers, then he went out with a bang. If he threw it on the ice, but will be back watching them tonight then it was just a moment of dumb frustration and rather bushleague. You can be upset at the Oilers, yell at them because they haven't improved, demand that Lowe be fired. That is fair game. Tossing a jersey, or anything else on the ice, other than a hat after a hat trick, should not be applauded.

    I do believe many fans are fed up and likely won't go to any games or watch any until the Oilers improve, and if you are strong enough to stay away I tip my hat to you. I'm a diehard Dolphins fan, and my team has stunk for the most part of the past two decades, yet everytime I think I'm done with them they win a few games and I get sucked back in. It is very hard to stop cheering for a team, and if you are able to do it then you are stronger than me. Good on ya.

 LINEUP

It shouldn't matter who they play with, the entire team's focus should be about working hard and competing. If they don't instill that into their foundation this team will never improve. Eakins juggled his lines and came up with these new combos at practice yesterday.

Hall-RNH-Perron
Joensuu-Gagner-Eberle
Smyth-Gordon-Hemsky
Gazdic-Lander-Yakupov

Ference-J Schultz
Belov-Petry
N Schultz-Potter

Bryzgalov

GAME DAY PREDICTION: The Oilers worst game of the year was the 5-0 loss to Detroit. They rebounded three days later and beat Florida on the road. Tonight is different. They are at home and their fans are frothing at the mouth in frustration. If they have any pride they will put forth a good effort. If they don't, the fans won't hold back their displeasure. The Oilers avoid a raucous round of boos with a 4-3 win.

OBVIOUS GAME DAY PREDICTION: The Oilers announce a sell out, but there will be some empty seats. Whether they are paid for or not, the message should be clear to the Oilers; patience is wearing thin amongst Oiler fans.

NOT-SO-OBVIOUS GAME DAY PREDICTION: The powerplay doesn't give up a good scoring chance.
 

DAY 16: MONTH OF GIVING...

Today is our final day, so if you haven't finished your Christmas shopping you could do it during the show and help out Santas Anonymous and The Christmas Bureau at the same time.

Package #1: Update your wardrobe.

 

  • A $1,000 shopping spree at Derk's Mens Wear
  • One Derk's Black Label Suit.
  • $300 in tailoring to help with your new wardrobe.
  • A wardrobe consultation. Derks will come to your house, go through your closet and asses what you need or what pieces need to go.

Package #2: Tee It Up.

  • 10 rounds of golf at the Ranch Golf and Country Club (hole 14 above)  with a power cart with each round and use of driving range before every round.

 Package #3: For your special lady.

  • A pair of white gold diamond earrings. Beautiful floral type deign with micro pavee set diamonds on lever backs, they are a stunning dangling style with .30 carats of diamonds. Courtesy of Michael Anthony Jewellers. 

Package #4:

  • Two pairs of seats to watch the Flyers/Oilers on Saturday.
    Row 23 seats 1,2 and seats 5.6  with club access courtesy of Nation reader VK63!

You can bid between 2-6 p.m today by calling 780.444.1260 or 1.800.243.1945.

Thanks in advance...

RECENTLY BY JASON GREGOR 

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One of Canada's most versatile sports personalities. Jason hosts The Jason Gregor Show, weekdays from 2 to 6 p.m., on TSN 1260, and he writes a column every Monday in the Edmonton Journal. You can follow him on Twitter at twitter.com/JasonGregor
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#202 RexHolez
December 23 2013, 10:44PM
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I heard that collective sigh of relief from Oil Country way over here

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#203 **
December 23 2013, 10:45PM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

My point is that I don't believe his actions change anything. They fire fans and Eakins up, but it won't change anything. He will keep going to games, and the Oilers aren't going to make changes right away. I understand why some think it was symbolic, but I don't see it making any impact on anything. Do you? If so, how?

There's a score sheet that begs to disagree with you.

" A pebble tossed from a beach can become a tsunami on the other side of the world."

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#204 Zarny
December 23 2013, 10:46PM
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Harsh realities. The mouth-breathers don't like those.

I thought the jersey on the ice was pathetic. That's probably a bit harsh; I can appreciate the frustration. Smacks of a temper tantrum though. "Waah! I want my rebuild!". "We have #1 draft piiiicks!!". Pfft...he's got 4 more jerseys at home.

No one with an honest assessment of the Oilers at the start of the season is panicking right now. A variation of the last 48 hrs was published in August. Not new information.

The first 20 games showed how thin the roster is. When healthy they go 6-3-1 against the bottom of the league and are outclassed against contenders.

They don't need to push the panic button. They don't need to drastically change course. The draft picks remain a good foundation to build around. We've seen they aren't the solution themselves.

They do have to start trading picks and prospects for proven NHL players. They can't wait for Klefbom, Nurse or some hypothetical draft pick.

That was the case last year and Tambo dithered so he was rightfully fired. MacT added a few pieces last summer. He needs to add a few more by the trade deadline and a few more in the summer.

Until then nothing changes. 6-0 loss against teams like StL. 6-2 wins against teams like Jets.

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#206 Fatbob24
December 23 2013, 10:48PM
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ColourMeImpressed wrote:

Told ya guys to cheer!

Taylor Hall hates Nail Yakupov.

Why is that? He tossed him the biscuit when it counted. Did I miss an interview?

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#207 Butters
December 23 2013, 10:53PM
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** wrote:

There's a score sheet that begs to disagree with you.

" A pebble tossed from a beach can become a tsunami on the other side of the world."

I agree. Jersey night did accomplish something The Oilers were in full damage control mode today. Dallas was ticked, but then clarified his comments via twitter. If he wasn't strongly encouraged to do that by higher-ups, I'd be mighty surprised. The Oilers might be getting a little more concerned about how the fans are feeling these days...

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#208 Dave "Killer" Carlson
December 23 2013, 10:53PM
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@Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)

That's a fair assessment. I wouldn't have booed them off, it was a good game. Not sure I would have cheered either. One game doesn't make up for the complete lack of effort we've seen in some games this year.

I've also hated the fan salute ever since teams started doing it after the 2004-2005 lockout. I think it has become overused and lost its impact. Opening night, season finale, and a big game here or there is fine but not every home win.

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#209 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
December 23 2013, 10:55PM
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Our idiot coach is sticking his foot in his mouth again I see.... Eakins doesn't see the difference between the fans and the players. He throws that quitter word around like it's sacred or something. Doesn't he realize that if these players weren't being paid millions per yr, everyone of them would have quit on him long ago as well? They are paid to care until the money runs out, and not for a second longer.

One has to pay to be there, and the other is well paid to be there. The leader of Gong Show Productions needs to be reminded the paying customer is always right. Today was just another example of the many stupid mistakes Eakins will make as his team plays out the string. We can put this quote right up on the shelf next to Kevin Lowes "I think I know a little bit about winning" quote. What a bunch of bozos....

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#210 Butters
December 23 2013, 10:57PM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

The Oilers were playing well, 7-3-1, before the six games against elite teams. They aren't an elite team and those six games proved it.

The Oilers should be able to compete and beat teams like the Jets. They need to beat middle of the road teams, gain experience and hope that next year they will add some new pieces and be able to at least compete with some of the elite teams.

I'm not believing the jersey theory and how it will play out in the future. I don't think you will see multiple bras thrown on the ice for the next hat trick either, but I could be wrong on both accounts.

They laid down and died a lot during that six game stretch. That is what a lot of us are ticked about.

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#211 Serious Gord
December 23 2013, 10:58PM
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** wrote:

There's a score sheet that begs to disagree with you.

" A pebble tossed from a beach can become a tsunami on the other side of the world."

That's a BS Confuciusism. No way a pebble ripple amplifies into a tsunami.

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#212 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
December 23 2013, 11:05PM
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If we ever become a contender, 10 of these 12 guys won't be here. Lander, Gagner, Jones, Hemsky, Smyth,Potter, N Schultz, Dubnyk,Acton, Belov, Larsen, Arcobello.........that's a lot of turnover...could take awhile.

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#213 Serious Gord
December 23 2013, 11:09PM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

The Oilers were playing well, 7-3-1, before the six games against elite teams. They aren't an elite team and those six games proved it.

The Oilers should be able to compete and beat teams like the Jets. They need to beat middle of the road teams, gain experience and hope that next year they will add some new pieces and be able to at least compete with some of the elite teams.

I'm not believing the jersey theory and how it will play out in the future. I don't think you will see multiple bras thrown on the ice for the next hat trick either, but I could be wrong on both accounts.

Pollyannish garbage.

The FACT is this team is on track to have the worst season in oilers history. Individual games are irrelevant.

The FACT is that this team doesn't just do poorly against good teams they are 3-20 against the top sixteen teams in the league. They are so bad against heavy opponents that they are the worst team in oilers history.

Jersey-throwing was a low point in the lowest season to end all seasons thusfar. Let's see how they do in the second half...

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#215 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
December 23 2013, 11:15PM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

Seven of those guys are UFA and Lander, Larsen, Arcobello are RFA...

Those pieces could be switched out sooner than you think if they wanted to, and only Gagner and Acton have contacts after this season.

Fork in the road Jason......here's praying that they want to!

Yogi Berra?....."if you come to a fork in the road....take it!"

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#217 Butters
December 23 2013, 11:23PM
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Merry Christmas Nation.

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#218 Serious Gord
December 23 2013, 11:28PM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

You are saying they are the worst when season isn't half over? You should wait until the end of the season to declare that.

Also, last I checked 7-3-1, plus a win tonight is 12 games, not an individual game, which is why I included the previous games.

They were brutal at start of the year, no doubt, but goaltending gave them no favours.

If you think this team is worse than the teams in the mid-90s you are kidding yourself. They haven't played as well as they could, but they are a better team than those teams. You will see at the end of the season.

Also, I find it hilarious you say individual games are irrelevant, (even though I used 12 games, not one) yet you made the bold claim that Friday was the hinge game for the Oilers.

So, I guess you are calling your own prediction irrelevant. :)

Their record speaks to itself. The worst ever thusfar - they will have the worst halfway record ever. Hardly one game...

As for the one game meme. I'm pretty sure that had the oil lost tonight you wouldn't be trumpeting a 7-4-1 record against the oils peers (iow crap teams) but rather you would have found another way to downplay the jersey effect.

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#219 Serious Gord
December 23 2013, 11:33PM
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And Jason there is little doubt that some games can set the tone / direction for a season - I think Friday has the potential to be one of them.

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#220 cubsfan
December 23 2013, 11:34PM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

My point is that I don't believe his actions change anything. They fire fans and Eakins up, but it won't change anything. He will keep going to games, and the Oilers aren't going to make changes right away. I understand why some think it was symbolic, but I don't see it making any impact on anything. Do you? If so, how?

I think the jersey incident was brilliant symbolism.

Although it wasnt Tommie Smith or John Carlos raising their fists in the air in 1968 Olympics as a human rights salute for equality, its an indelible point in time which is being discussed across Canada.

Youre right. We wont stop watching games, we will still buy tickets, jerseys tshirt and caps and beer.....

But how else can our frustrations be heard? I think they have, judging by the reaction of the coach and management.

What makes it more raw is that it was instinctual and not planned, and reverberated across the country.

(PS dont compare the jerseys 'desecration' in the same vane as a flag that we protect.....its a game.....the jersey is not sacred, and the Oilers of the past are not heroes or saints......its insulting)

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#221 kale
December 23 2013, 11:37PM
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I think it may be too soon to assess the impact of the Jersey incident but I do know that it certainly motivated the team tonight. IT may have done much more than that-I have not seen the team play this cohesive this season. And tonight was an example of why I scream when people say trade YAk.

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#222 **
December 23 2013, 11:39PM
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Serious Gord wrote:

That's a BS Confuciusism. No way a pebble ripple amplifies into a tsunami.

wow, just wow

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#223 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
December 23 2013, 11:39PM
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kale wrote:

I think it may be too soon to assess the impact of the Jersey incident but I do know that it certainly motivated the team tonight. IT may have done much more than that-I have not seen the team play this cohesive this season. And tonight was an example of why I scream when people say trade YAk.

Sometimes severe adversity is what it takes to bring a team together. Let's hope.

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#225 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
December 23 2013, 11:47PM
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cubsfan wrote:

I think the jersey incident was brilliant symbolism.

Although it wasnt Tommie Smith or John Carlos raising their fists in the air in 1968 Olympics as a human rights salute for equality, its an indelible point in time which is being discussed across Canada.

Youre right. We wont stop watching games, we will still buy tickets, jerseys tshirt and caps and beer.....

But how else can our frustrations be heard? I think they have, judging by the reaction of the coach and management.

What makes it more raw is that it was instinctual and not planned, and reverberated across the country.

(PS dont compare the jerseys 'desecration' in the same vane as a flag that we protect.....its a game.....the jersey is not sacred, and the Oilers of the past are not heroes or saints......its insulting)

Thank goodness the Jerseys are not sacred......cause I spilled nacho cheese and beer all over mine at the last game..........

Weird part was...when the nacho cheese dried up.....it resembled the face of Jesus......

Then Jesus came to me in a dream....and he says....hey...Old Retired Guy.....THATS NOCH YO CHEESE! ....IDOLATOR!

Edit: I wonder if MacT hears my story if he'll invite me to christen one of the new concessions in the new arena?

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#226 Serious Gord
December 23 2013, 11:48PM
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Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty) wrote:

Sometimes severe adversity is what it takes to bring a team together. Let's hope.

Further to my Churchill reference above:

"The Hinge of Fate describes how the tide of the war gradually turned for Britain and its allies from constant defeat to almost unbroken successes - Japan's successful assault on the Pacific, Britain's attempts to aid a beleaguered Russia and the defeat of Rommel at the Battle of Alamein."

From an amazon synopsis of WCs six volume history of f the war. (Fantastic read BTW)

Perhaps cgy on the 27 is the oils El Alamein...

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#227 Serious Gord
December 23 2013, 11:54PM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

Explain to me how beating up a Flames team that has many of their best players injured will be a "set the tone' game. Beating a depleted Flames team will give them the boost they need? I sure hope they have higher standards than that.

Why resort to "what if they lost" arguments. Weak, very weak, since what ifs only lead to impossible to prove speculation.

You can keep trying to overhype the jersey toss all you like.

It is not the toss it is what it symbolized for a very large cohort of oilers fans. And that is clearly demonstrated by the ensuing reaction. To the act.

And the same goes for the game against cgy. that cgy is in a weakened state is irrelevant. It is relevant that the flames are our biggest rival. Our foil to which everyone compares the oil and derides the oil for not meeting expectations while cgy exceeds theirs (which they did again tonight). Friday really seems to me to be a put up or shut up game for the oil. Lose and I think all is lost. Win and maybe. Just maybe. They can have a successful second half.

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#229 Eddie Shore
December 24 2013, 12:00AM
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Serious Gord is the new DSF.

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#230 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
December 24 2013, 12:06AM
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Merry Christmas Eve....FIST!

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#231 Serious Gord
December 24 2013, 12:07AM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

It is also important to state truths...

Oilers 1993/1994...first 39 games.. 11-23-5, and they lost their 40th game.

Through 39 games this year the Oilers are 12-24-3. That is a better record based on wins. And if Oilers win one of their next two games they will be better than two other years at the half way point. They have many issues, but it is important to state the exact truths when comparing previous seasons.

You want the truth?!!

You can't handle the truth.

There weren't any overtime losses in the nhl in 93/94.

Adjusting for that and the fact that the oil thusfar have four overtime wins that would have been ties in 93/94 they would be 8 - 24 - 7.

That is far behind the 93/94 team.

Now either you innocently forgot that fact or you deliberately omitted it.

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#232 Serious Gord
December 24 2013, 12:10AM
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Eddie Shore wrote:

Serious Gord is the new DSF.

DSF is (was?) a far better and more knowledgeable commenter than I am. I thank you for the compliment just the same.

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#233 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
December 24 2013, 12:11AM
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Is this not the type of expected courtesy the Oilers demand with your media participation Jason?

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#234 ThatButthurtOilersFan
December 24 2013, 12:12AM
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Drowning in Oil wrote:

I AM SO, SO, SO SICK OF LISTENING TO BOB STAUFFER FLAP HIS LIPS ABOUT HOW SUPPORTIVE HE IS WITH EVERYTHING THIS MANAGEMENT SAYS OR DOES. HOW CHED KEEPS THAT ONE SIDED, COMMUNIST TRASH ON THE AIR IS UNBELEIEVABLE....... SERIOUS GORD, YOU SHOULD TAKE OVER THAT SHOW!! SECONDLY, EAKINS COMMENTS ABOUT THE JERSEY ON THE ICE WERE APPAULING. HE IS A CLOWN AND THIS MANAGEMENT TEAM IS THE BIGGEST JOKE IN SPRTS TODAY!!!

Woah there, Trevor Phillips.

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#235 Cubsfan
December 24 2013, 12:12AM
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On a positive note: I loved the shot of Gazdik putting his arm around Yak and encouraging him on sticking up for himself (in te penalty box)......i hope that events of tonight galvanizes the team and the Oilers take on the, "its us versus the world" mentality and stick up for each other

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#236 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
December 24 2013, 12:13AM
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Serious Gord wrote:

You want the truth?!!

You can't handle the truth.

There weren't any overtime losses in the nhl in 93/94.

Adjusting for that and the fact that the oil thusfar have four overtime wins that would have been ties in 93/94 they would be 8 - 24 - 7.

That is far behind the 93/94 team.

Now either you innocently forgot that fact or you deliberately omitted it.

I'm confused....did Churchill say overtime wins should count or not?!?

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#237 THE PUZ
December 24 2013, 12:15AM
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Gregor's analysis does not take into account that the Oiler fans have been putting up with a "rebuild" for 20+ years, other than one fluky run, with excuse after excuse. We are tired of being the only ones bleeding orange and blue.

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#239 Serious Gord
December 24 2013, 12:19AM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

You play based on the rule of the year. They have more wins.

You can twist the numbers however you like, but through 39 games they have more wins.

There wasn't 30 teams in 1993/1994, so should we not count games against new teams either?

The record book of each team when it comes to worst seasons goes by wins and points, not which rules were in place at the time. I've never seen one that ranks them based on the rules at the time. NHL official record book doesn't.

Garbage rebuttal. I nailed you fair and square. Admit it.

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#240 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
December 24 2013, 12:22AM
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Cubsfan wrote:

On a positive note: I loved the shot of Gazdik putting his arm around Yak and encouraging him on sticking up for himself (in te penalty box)......i hope that events of tonight galvanizes the team and the Oilers take on the, "its us versus the world" mentality and stick up for each other

That...and he played smart.....he waited until we were up 5-2 before exacting revenge on Stuart for his hit from behind on Gagner.

Gadzik is part of the solution.

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#241 **
December 24 2013, 12:25AM
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Serious Gord wrote:

You want the truth?!!

You can't handle the truth.

There weren't any overtime losses in the nhl in 93/94.

Adjusting for that and the fact that the oil thusfar have four overtime wins that would have been ties in 93/94 they would be 8 - 24 - 7.

That is far behind the 93/94 team.

Now either you innocently forgot that fact or you deliberately omitted it.

C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!!!

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#242 Serious Gord
December 24 2013, 12:25AM
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Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty) wrote:

I'm confused....did Churchill say overtime wins should count or not?!?

I bet - as someone who has read many (over a dozen) books by or on Churchill over the years - that he would find the current points system to be an abomination.

It gives more points in some games than others. It makes it impossible to determine what a .500 team really is and thus how many games ahead or behind a team is and it does not show nor differentiate overtime wins. It makes comparisons with past eras even more difficult.

And it traps statistically challenged journos from time to time.

So I think he would count them - but for less than a regulation win. I Favour a 3-2-1 system. I think he would too.

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#243 Zarny
December 24 2013, 12:26AM
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Serious Gord wrote:

Garbage rebuttal. I nailed you fair and square. Admit it.

No, actually record books simply record wins, losses and ties.

For each year, every team plays by the same rules.

Regardless, by the end of the season it won't matter. This team won't have anywhere near the worst record ever.

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#245 Serious Gord
December 24 2013, 12:39AM
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Zarny wrote:

No, actually record books simply record wins, losses and ties.

For each year, every team plays by the same rules.

Regardless, by the end of the season it won't matter. This team won't have anywhere near the worst record ever.

We shall see where they end up. Right now they are on track - adjusting as any sane statistician would - for overtime wins, to be the worst team in oilers history.

That is undeniable. (And odd that someone would try and obfuscate it).

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#246 Serious Gord
December 24 2013, 12:44AM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

Not true. Go look at a record book and get back to me.

And when people say the best or worst teams or players they use the entire season, not half of it. That isn't my rule, it is just how it has been when people compare teams. And most statisticians wait until the end or a season to accurately compare to previous years, otherwise it is just a projection History shows many teams can have vastly different first or second halves of a season, both in improvment or in a decline.

I have consistently said "on track" at the halfway point to be the worst team in oilers history.

This is hardly an odd concept. Such projections are made all the time. I am pretty confident that you have made similar extrapolations for the oil and other teams (your beloved dolphins) in the past.

Forty odd games IS a substantive body of work - a sample size not much smaller than all of last season. And that was long enough for MacT to justify firing kreuger (for example).

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#247 TigerUnderGlass
December 24 2013, 12:47AM
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Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty) wrote:

Sometimes severe adversity is what it takes to bring a team together. Let's hope.

Often referred to as the "Major League Theory" of professional sports.

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#248 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
December 24 2013, 12:56AM
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Next up, is Connor McJesus. wrote:

Is this not the type of expected courtesy the Oilers demand with your media participation Jason?

I'm conflicted. I like QSB and the dark presence he brings to the site......but Gregor is the best writer on the site..........hhhhmmm......I need to consult with nacho Jesus.

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#249 **
December 24 2013, 01:00AM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

Not true. Go look at a record book and get back to me.

And when people say the best or worst teams or players they use the entire season, not half of it. That isn't my rule, it is just how it has been when people compare teams. And most statisticians wait until the end or a season to accurately compare to previous years, otherwise it is just a projection History shows many teams can have vastly different first or second halves of a season, both in improvment or in a decline.

You're both using the wrong stat to prove your point. You need the points percentage to make the equivalencies match for both seasons.

THe PP doesn't go as far back as 1993-1994 in the NHL website but it's easy to calculate.

For 1993/1994 with a record of 11-23-5 in 39 games, the P% is .361.

For 2013/2014 with a record of 12-24-3 in 39 games, the P% is .361.

The Oilers are actually exactly where they were back in 1993/1994.

When you do it this way you make it only about the ability to obtain points and nothing else. This eliminates noise and bias from adding other elements of comparison like number of wins, or overtimes or ties.

Rules may change,but the ability to get points out of a max total remains the same.

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#250 The Mook
December 24 2013, 01:00AM
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The NHL started regular season overtime in '83-84, so yes those 4 wins are possible in '93-94

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