GDB 29.0: SHOW UP AT HOME

Jason Gregor
December 03 2013 01:24PM

Home ice advantage has been a mirage for the Edmonton Oilers so far this season.

The Oilers are 3-8-0 at home this year. They've been outscored 38-23. They've allowed 3+ goals in 9 of the 11 home games and they've scored once or been shutout seven times. There is no other way to say it, they've been awful on home ice, and it's about time they start giving their fans something to cheer about.

In 2010, on their way to drafting Taylor Hall at least they were competitive at home, 18-19-4, and 9-28-4 on the road.
In 2011, they were pretty much the same team at home on and on the road; 13-22-6 at home and 12-23-6 on the road.
In 2012, they were 18-17-6 at home, and 14-23-4 on the road.

Last year, the Oilers won more games on the road than they did at home, 9-11-4 at home and 10-11-3 on the road.

There is no reason the Oilers should be this horrendous at Rexall Place, and it has to change. The games are still announced as sell outs, but I know some fans are wasting their tickets and not showing up. The Oilers must be aware of this.

When that many fans elect to just "waste" their tickets, Oilers management better take notice. This happened in the early 90s, and once the team wasn't competitive, 1993-1996, the fans stopped buying tickets. The Oilers shouldn't be naive enough to believe that couldn't happen again.

Fans have been incredibly loyal and patient, but if the Oilers don't start winning some home games soon, I sense we could see even more empty seats as the season progresses.

LINEUP

Hall-RNH-Eberle
Perron-Arcobello-Yakupov
Jones-Gagner-Hemsky
Smyth-Acton-Joensuu

Ference-Petry
Grebeshkov-J.Schultz
Belov-N.Schultz

Dubnyk

Ryan Jones has played with desperation since coming out of the pressbox, and Eakins rewarded him by bumping him up the lineup. Eakins moved Yakupov back to the right wing, and put Perron on the right side with him and Arcobello in hopes of creating two scoring lines.

I'm curious to see if Eakins starts to try and get better matchups at home. Will he try to give "softer" minutes to Arcobello's line so they can produce offence, or will he do that with the Gagner trio?

Joensuu has to play with the same passion and determination that Jones did to earn a promotion. I think Joensuu has more to offer, and he needs to start showing it.

TUESDAY TIDBITS...

  • It will be back next week, but this week we incorporated into the GDB.
     
  • Ray Ferraro had an interesting take on my show regarding Taylor Hall, when I asked him what change Hall should make in his game that would help him become a more dominant player.
    I think there is one thing he could do that would elevate his game and he could do it quickly. If he would learn, or accept, that he is not the best option on the ice all the time, I think that could help him a great deal.

    I will give you an example. When he gets the puck, and when he gets moving, if he would give it up a little quicker and separate, because no one is going to catch him, and then get it back; that small change to his game would change his game immensely. He loves to lug the puck. At times he looks like a punt returner. He gets it in his zone and is going to go as far as he can with it, and he can because he's that talented.

    I think if he takes a couple of strides and moves it to a centreman -- and obviously in Edmonton he is playing with talented players so the puck will come back to him --now he is moving again. If he moves it to the middle the defenceman has to take a step to the middle, because he has to defend the centreman, and that will give Taylor another five feet when he gets the puck back. Now the D-man has to cross over and come back, and I like Hall's chances better if he has that much more room to skate, than if he was just lugging the puck all the time.

    I think it is a small change, and if he can get his head around it and try it, he would find that he is going to get more room on the ice than he already creates with his speed.
     
  • Ferraro knows a thing or two about creating offensive chances. Ferraro is currently the 99th highest scoring player in NHL history. Ferraro admitted it isn't easy for players to make sudden changes to their game, and while he said it was small, it would take some time to adapt properly. Hall has carried the puck his entire career, and he's had success with it, so any change is tough, but it makes a lot of sense. Hall's speed already scares D-men, and if he gain a quarter or a half of a step advantage he could be even more dangerous.
     
  • Sidney Crosby will play his 499th game tonight, and he'll play his 500th game vs. the Sharks on Thursday. Crosby already has 701 points in 498 games and whatever points his picks up in the next 72 hours will put leave him with the 6th most points in NHL history through 500 games.

    Wayne Gretzky is first with 1,186.
    Mario Lemieux tallied 971.
    Peter Stastny had 759.
    Mike Bossy scored 757.
    Jari Kurri is 5th with 730.

    Crosby will join a very elite crew, being only the 6th player in NHL history to score 700+ points in his first 500 games.
     
  • In case you are wondering, Alex Ovechkin had 643 points in his first 500 games, including 309 goals.
     
  • The Penguins ability to throw out two dominant centres makes life much easier for head coach Dan Bylsma. While Crosby had a "slow" month, picking up 15 points in 15 games, Evgeni Malkin was on fire with 25 points in 15 games. After a slow start Malkin is now 2nd in league scoring, 35 points, and he's only one back of Crosby.
     
  • I was perplexed in the summer when some people didn't have Corey Perry on the Olympic team. He was great in 2010, and I don't think his foot speed is an issue. He and Ryan Getzlaf are off to a great start, with 29 and 31 points respectively. For me, both of them are locks to make the squad.
     
  • I wonder if the St. Louis Blues are concerned about how they match up vs. the Sharks and Kings. The Sharks have beat them 6-2 and 6-3 this year, while the Kings dominated the Blues for 55 minutes last night, before two late goals made the 3-2 final look more respectable.
     
  • The Blues need a pure finisher, and Marian Gaborik is a UFA at the end of the season. The Blue Jackets likely won't re-sign him, and he would fit perfect in St. Louis. Gaborik won't lead your team to the Cup, but he could be an excellent complementary player in their top-six. With David Backes and Alex Steen down the middle, the Blues don't need a defensively responsible scorer. They need a finisher. The Blues have about $2 million in cap space at the deadline, and if they are willing to spend it, they could fit Gaborik under the cap, by moving out a small salary.
     
  • The Coyotes have scored the 5th most goals in the western conference, but only Calgary and the Oilers have given up more goals. Mike Smith has a .307 GAA and a respectable .910 SV%. He hasn't played as well as they would like, but the Coyotes are giving up way too many shots. The Coyotes, 34.5, are giving up four more shots against than the Oilers, 30.5.
     
  • Dave Tippett's Coyotes aren't playing as defensively as they have in the past.

TONIGHT...

GAME DAY PREDICTION: The Coyotes have lost four of their last five, and they've given up 4 goals in each loss. The Oilers finally give their fans something to cheer about as defeat a playoff team for only the 2nd time this season. Oilers win 4-1.

OBVIOUS GAME DAY PREDICTION: Hemsky picks up a point. He has 34 points in 33 career games vs. the Coyotes.

NOT-SO-OBVIOUS GAME DAY PREDICTION: Justin Schultz becomes the first Oiler D-man to score two goals in a game since Corey Potter did it late last season. After reading the previous sentence, many of you are stunned that Potter was the last Oiler D-man to score two goals in a game. I was too. Entering tonight the six blueliners have played a combined 2,118 NHL games, and Andrew Ference is the only one to have a multi-goal game. He scored twice on January 5th, 2004. J.Schultz' two goals will indeed be a rare occurrence.

DAY FOUR...MONTH OF GIVING...

Yesterday we raised another $2,500 for Santas Anonymous. Thanks to Ken for the bid and especially to Robert for re-donating the Messier jersey.
 

It includes:

You can bid by calling 780.444.1260 or 1.800.243.1945. All the proceeds will go to the Christmas Bureau. Thanks in advance to all of those who make a bid.

RECENTLY BY JASON GREGOR 

Ddf3e2ba09069c465299f3c416e43eae
One of Canada's most versatile sports personalities. Jason hosts The Jason Gregor Show, weekdays from 2 to 6 p.m., on TSN 1260, and he writes a column every Monday in the Edmonton Journal. You can follow him on Twitter at twitter.com/JasonGregor
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#201 MR. Roger's Circus Show Fun Time Happy Hour
December 04 2013, 12:03PM
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Fire Eakins! If your too scared to make a trade fire the coach MacT. You gave him this mess and he couldnt even keep it close to 500. He was lost since day 1 and if the fans notice what do you think the players are thinking?

Either Intern yourself until you find a replacement or let Tod Nelson have a shot at it. He cant do any worse than whats already been done the last 7 years.

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#202 Puck JammeR!
December 04 2013, 01:59PM
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tileguy wrote:

Criminals??? I think the lions were fed with eunuch.

Well eunuchs sums up the way the Oilers play pretty well

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#203 madjam
December 04 2013, 02:57PM
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8 years after rebuild first started several key pieces still remain in control of our on ice product - Lowe, MacT. and Howson for the most part . Time has passed them by and we are left with their fallout which has been abysmal . Change will do us good as we distance ourselves from the eighties past , and form a team for this century .

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#204 S cottV
December 04 2013, 02:57PM
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I am starting to think that there is a serious disconnect going on behind closed doors, between the player group and Head Coach. May explain some of the lack of production from key players and some of the on-going systems breakdowns that are off the charts. While it can take some time, it cant be too long before the Coach is able to influence the player group to make tangible changes, to get with his program - for the most part. It is hard to believe that this process is going well - given what we see on the ice. Players being led down a certain path, need to see some increasingly positive results in the endeavor, or they are going to pull back on the throttle through lack of confidence or belief. The league is pretty tough if you dont have your guys in strong support - strong acceptence mode, for your leadership. Dont think Eakins has them anywhere near this zone and it may just be - too far gone. Young players and in particular young superstar players (at least in their own minds) tend to want quick fixes and are not in the habit of going out of their way to blame themselves - for too long. So - whether for some of the right reasons or for some of the wrong reasons - it wont be long before the Coach vision becomes the embraced player group (behind the scenes)target or excuse.

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#205 Alsker
December 03 2013, 04:56PM
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Spydyr wrote:

It's been seven years for Gagner I would not expect any Christmas miracles.Yak is lost right now and that is on his coach.

Perron-Arco-Yak, so his coach is doing his part, now it's up to Yak. Doubt disney could conjure the magic needed for Gags to up his game, ~damn glad he's here for the next phase of the infibuild~

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#206 Lowe Expectations
December 03 2013, 05:33PM
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Dog Train wrote:

Hopefully Rogers Place is more friendly to us than Rexall has been of late. No matter how many fans waste their tickets for tonight, there will still be more fans at this game than any Coyotes' home game. For that reason alone, we need to win tonight.

Rogers Place: Sounds like the title of a bad kids show. Sort of Mr. Rogers meets Mr. Dressup.

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#207 Alsker
December 03 2013, 06:18PM
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Spydyr wrote:

The reason Yak looks lost is not his linemates.It is how his coach teaches Yak his system and teaches what is expected of him within it.

Coaching is more then picking lines the biggest part is teaching.

Granted, BUT if his linemates actually do what the coach says they are going to do(practice on offdays)then he may not be so lost...everyone Arco and Perron have played with have both looked good and seemed to be on the same page...I'm just hoping it will make a difference..we need YAK to be dangerous and engaging!!!!

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#208 D-Unit
December 03 2013, 06:49PM
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@Saytalk

I am sure Eakins would love to have a total of 6 forwards that he could use to match up. Right now with a contingent of too many of the same type of player makes it difficult.

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#209 Craig1981
December 03 2013, 09:00PM
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Rob F wrote:

For a sell out .....lots if empty seats....I'm not the only one that's had enough It's a boring experience. That's for sure

Keep in mind there has been a crazy 2 day snow storm. I think that explains a lot of the empty ones

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#210 They're $hittie
December 03 2013, 09:34PM
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Well the argument for arcobello as a better defensive option and a second line center replacement is being put to sleep tonight.

I like the guy but you cant make a stupid presumption after 20 game sample/

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#211 LOIL
December 03 2013, 09:36PM
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I bet Petry doesn't even know where to move the puck too

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#212 biggie small
December 03 2013, 09:44PM
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Coilers should belongs to KHL... This is the honest truth...,

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#213 MoneyMoe
December 03 2013, 09:48PM
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Time to Make a SERIOUS move Mack!!

Old Shultz to Carolina For Dman T.Gleason ...

Larson & draft pick to Pens for Dman D.Engelland...

And Hemsky, Omark draft pick to Philly for Wayne Simmonds!

All of a Sudden we have players who can "Play" "hit" and fight if or when needed in the regular rotation ...

If u can't pull 1 off. Then let's go after the young Russian Dman from Florida

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#214 Rod from Viking
December 03 2013, 09:48PM
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Alsker wrote:

Lets hope the Bryzzly bear returns thursday...can't stand the DD show(considering my love of cleavage and push up bras this is not easy to say).

Dubynk back to pre Bryz signing stellar form and the team isn't helping him at all.

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#215 LOIL
December 03 2013, 09:48PM
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Petry and Gilbert are junk

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#216 Sailge
December 03 2013, 09:51PM
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Great prediction with the oil winning, Gregor.

Are you kidding me?

Everyone knows that after at least a 2 game road trip we win like 1% of the time the first home game back.

Plus we suck at home in general. Unbelievably bad.

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#217 Richard
December 03 2013, 10:03PM
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How many times can we say FIRE KEVIN LOWE?

Look at the results since the 2005 lockout.

Liberals live in a world of intentions and reality smacks them in their face.

How many smacks does Daryl need?

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#218 kgo
December 03 2013, 10:07PM
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Is that Tambellini in the ATB commercial?

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#219 Alsker
December 03 2013, 10:12PM
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Can we make the clock go faster please.

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#220 PapaMike
December 03 2013, 10:13PM
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Reg Dunlop wrote:

Looks like Eakins fell asleep or passed out due to malnutrition. Get him a donair.

Or a donut....

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#221 Mike Krushelnyski
December 03 2013, 11:38PM
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Well that sucked

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#222 Walter Sobchak
December 03 2013, 11:39PM
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I thought Hemsky & Gagner were the absolute worst tonight, Hemsky tried entering the zone the same way twice on the same PP and both times gave the puck away.

Gagner for what feels like the hundredth time left his man in the high slot not once but twice........again.

I would also like to point out despite the Oilers looking good passing it around on the PP it was all kept to the outside & was never really effective at all.

Perron has been a delight in an absolutely brutal year.

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#223 CaptainLander
December 04 2013, 06:59AM
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Done and Done....good luck Oil.

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#224 tileguy
December 04 2013, 10:40AM
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Clarko wrote:

Hall & Eberle may not be perfect, but Hall has 123 points in his last 128 games. And Eberle has 136 points in his last 155 games. The stats say that these guys give NHL defensemen at least a little bit to worry about.

They both need to be more consistent, but trading your two most offensively gifted players on an offensively-challenged team would be a big mistake.

Gotta give something to get something. Even 4 more Perron's will not work, too much of the same. We need size, and grit and need to use our assets to obtain this, even if it means overpaying. Not doing anything is total disrespect to the fans.

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#225 Oilerz4life
December 04 2013, 12:45PM
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Hockey Problems wrote:

You want the "Rogers NHL package ?!?

$200/month please. We have to recoup 5.2 billion somehow.

This is Canada, it DOESN'T get cheaper.

Or, if you're that upset about it, take that $200 a month cable bill that you are upset about and cancel it. Then, take that $200 a month and invest it in Rogers Communications. Then, when your buddies are complaining about their cable bill, you can have a laugh, because you are investing in and possibly turning a profit from where they are losing their shirts.

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#226 W
December 04 2013, 01:06PM
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Wonger wrote:

You gotta love Katz! He makes millions on the new arena before the first shovel of dirt is even moved! Talk about leverage!

He is my idol!

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#227 Puck JammeR!
December 04 2013, 01:16PM
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OilCanFan wrote:

the nickname for this arena should be "the doghouse"

I think we should resurrect the Coliseum. Just think of the Oilers as the criminals and the other team as the lions!

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#228 mayorblaine
December 03 2013, 03:15PM
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despite the loss they found comfort in knowing that they were/are showing signs of improvement. they play better away from the stresses of their own fans - Oiler apologists.

i'm insufferable. i was content being miserable about this team. hope is for parents who name their kids based on the top 10 hot names. not oiler fans.

hope they win.

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#229 Puck_In_Throat
December 03 2013, 03:17PM
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They're $hittie wrote:

Gagners a lot better than Nuge on the dot, By this reasoning you would have Nuge playing fourth line minutes. I'd rather have hockey players than face punchers, and NHL players than AHL players who can take face offs.

Watch the face offs really close, there are a lot of battles for the puck where the wingers are breaking out or do not help on the draw causing our centers a lot of losses that should not be.

Me Personally Gagner and Hemsky and Jones have more experience so between the two, Gagners line takes the toughs.

Nuge and Gagner are basically the same at draws (crappy). A cursory look at NHL.com stats will show you that the Nuge has almost a 50% success rate on the PP...which, hopefully Willis or someone can corroborate, is when he takes most of his draws on his strong wing (backhand- goalie's right). Boyd Gordon, on the PP (again, strong wing- backhand- goalie's left) is batting roughly 70%. Gordon is an excellent faceoff man.

Gagner's numbers are basically the same as Nuge - 50% on the PP (smyth usually takes draws on his strong side on that unit, gagner on HIS strong side), which is incredibly bad when you think about it. Nuge and Gagner are both ~40% Even strength (having to do both sides).

Centers are always stronger on their backhand. Winning to your forehand side takes some sneakiness/tricks of the trade. I know that there are "other" factors such as winger support, but winning on your weak side requires 1) sneaky technique or 2)great upper body strength.

Gordon has both. Gagner and Nuge do not have the upper body strength. Boyd Gordon and Sam Gagner are both listed as playing at 202 lbs. I would bet anyone any amount of money that Gordon is a lot stronger (and that Gagner's weight is exaggerated).

Arcobello is at roughly 50% overall, slightly below on PP and slightly above 5 v 5. I would take Arco as better defensive option over Gagner in a heartbeat.

But the real question is why is Eakinks not matching Boyd Gordon against the other team's top line (I can tell you that's what Dave Tippett used him for last year)!!!

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#230 Saytalk
December 03 2013, 05:47PM
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Gagner and Yakupov need a lot of sheltering at even strength to not be complete liabilities out there, which is why it makes more sense to keep them together and use the home ice advantage to shelter them from the toughs. After watching what Toronto did to Gagner and Yak (in Edmonton) earlier this season, you'd think that Eakins would have realized this by now.

The home record won't improve until Eakins patches together two lines that can match up against the opponent's top lines at even strength.

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#231 Spydyr
December 03 2013, 06:02PM
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Alsker wrote:

Perron-Arco-Yak, so his coach is doing his part, now it's up to Yak. Doubt disney could conjure the magic needed for Gags to up his game, ~damn glad he's here for the next phase of the infibuild~

The reason Yak looks lost is not his linemates.It is how his coach teaches Yak his system and teaches what is expected of him within it.

Coaching is more then picking lines the biggest part is teaching.

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#232 vetinari
December 03 2013, 06:15PM
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Alsker wrote:

OK, so why does "Rogers Place" sound so Vancityish, or Ottawaish.....we need a real name: Deathrink, Blooddome, I don't know maybe "Icecavern of Doom"? Rogers Place sounds like it's Mr.Rogers approved, sweaters and hugs for everyone.

How about:

The Rogers Oil Patch?

The Rogers Ice Hole?

If-they-finish-30th-again-can-we-call-it-the-Bell-House-instead?

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#233 David S
December 03 2013, 06:29PM
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The site is really SLOOOOOOW. Wonder if Wanye is getting ready to pull off some fat stack deal with a Rogers sponsorship of the Nations.

Oilers Nation corporate suites for everybody!

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#234 Johnnydapunk
December 03 2013, 08:44PM
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Alsker wrote:

OK, so why does "Rogers Place" sound so Vancityish, or Ottawaish.....we need a real name: Deathrink, Blooddome, I don't know maybe "Icecavern of Doom"? Rogers Place sounds like it's Mr.Rogers approved, sweaters and hugs for everyone.

What the official name is and what people call it will hopefully be different, it's happened before, not sure with hockey, but I know the stadium where the Football team Newcastle United play was known as St James' park since the beginning of time, and a new owner tried to change the name a few times, failed miserably and the original name was brought back.

Rogers is doing the exact same thing that O2 Telefonica has done in Europe, it gets to the point where it is impossible to escape the advertising.

It's just a matter of time before they buy a team and change the name, make it all formula one style.

Hope that people do actively refer it to another name and hopefully that name isn't something like "The place where all Stanley cup dreams go to die" (even if it is true ) :-P

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#235 Sailge
December 03 2013, 09:09PM
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I jinx'd em!

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#236 LOIL
December 03 2013, 09:17PM
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I bet if you put Petry right beside Gilbert they would both be rated not very good

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#237 Big small
December 03 2013, 09:28PM
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Petty is the new version of Gilbert and Potie.... Donkey is a jock like my six rings!!!!

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#238 They're $hittie
December 03 2013, 09:42PM
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Hockey fan 1976 wrote:

So exactly how many games does Ganger has to play after getting back to make people realize he's not as good as people think and Arco is a much better and cheaper option. God we are awful on defence!!!! And Eakins sucks!!!

2 goals and 1 dissallowed goal was arcos fault, one was partially gagners and you are saying arco is a better option. wow.

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#239 Rod from Viking
December 03 2013, 10:03PM
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HOFFFF wrote:

Dubnyk's positioning is horrendous. His glove side is always open. After most goals the right post is directly behind his back. Half his body covering nothing.

The Coyotes had lots of room on the glove side all night and could have more goals, come on Perron get a hat trick.

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#240 HOFFFF
December 03 2013, 10:04PM
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C-O-W....-E-I-E-I-O

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#241 PapaMike
December 03 2013, 10:05PM
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JJ wrote:

Why does this arena continue to sell out? As a fan, why would you want to pay any money to see this piece of **** team play. Can anyone answer this for me? Don't you get it by now? You're just going to get ****** over and over and you don't learn.

Anyway, I'm very happy at the current score. Blow these bastards out, Phoenix. Dubnyk, get the **** out of edmonton. Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out, mother ******

I am wondering why you are watching them on TV? oh, your mom won't let you stay up late. Go on and watch Glee and you will be much happier.

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#242 Zamboni Driver
December 03 2013, 10:20PM
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I totally think Steve Kelly was misunderstood, btw.

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#243 Stack Pad Save
December 03 2013, 10:22PM
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Why can't I stop watching them? It's like staring at a car crash, you know you shouldn't, but you keep doing it.

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#244 Mike Krushelnyski
December 03 2013, 11:40PM
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Well that sucked

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#245 Mike Krushelnyski
December 03 2013, 11:40PM
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Well that sucked

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#246 Mike Krushelnyski
December 03 2013, 11:40PM
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Well that sucked

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#247 Greasy Goal
December 04 2013, 09:37AM
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Hall the time wrote:

I cant take the losing anymore, fire the coaching staff and start winning Oilers.

I have enough stress in my life I'm done with the oiler this year.

They tried that. Basically everyone has either been fired or not resigned. All except Lowe. Lowes only saving grace is that he has a spot on Team Canadas board. Other than that he's been less than useless. If Hall doesn't make the Olympic team, im gonna have to start flipping some tables.

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#248 geoilersgist
December 04 2013, 10:14AM
Trash it!
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Cheers
2
cheers

Wow over 830 comments! Yup it is about to get real for the Oilers. The fan base is about to explode if something doesn't happen

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#249 Oilerz4life
December 04 2013, 12:06PM
Trash it!
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Hockey Problems wrote:

You want the "Rogers NHL package ?!?

$200/month please. We have to recoup 5.2 billion somehow.

This is Canada, it DOESN'T get cheaper.

Like I said, I might be wrong, but where are you getting your numbers? Do you have some insider information that nobody else is privy to, or is it just complaining for fear of change? From what I understand package deals are going to be a thing of the past soon and you will only have to pay for the channels you want.

Anybody with half a brain knows that these media giants are losing revenue because people who cant afford it will easily find a way to pirate what they want anyway, so they have to try to find a way to compete. Times are changing and there is more to the country and this world than Edmonton, Alberta. Do you understand the revenue stream that Rogers will make continually from marketing alone? More than some couch potato can pay for his monthly bill thats for sure. Do you understand that its bigger than just people paying bills? As far as my bills are concerned I pay 0, but I don't miss very many games and I live outside of SN West coverage. But, if there is an option to watch more of what I want and the price is right, I might be willing to budget that, if its affordable. Either way, I will still see the commercials, adds, sponsorships, etc. They are always there and that's where the big bucks roll in. Do you think Rogers has some accountant punching numbers to "recoup 5.2 billion" from your monthly cable bill alone? Thats a small part of it, but you will see the adds, one way or another. Recoup 5.2 billion. Thats funny. Rogers will "recoup" more than that, easily.

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#250 Wonger
December 04 2013, 12:54PM
Trash it!
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Oilerz4life wrote:

Or, if you're that upset about it, take that $200 a month cable bill that you are upset about and cancel it. Then, take that $200 a month and invest it in Rogers Communications. Then, when your buddies are complaining about their cable bill, you can have a laugh, because you are investing in and possibly turning a profit from where they are losing their shirts.

You have just discovered the Wongers Investing Secrets! Banks and Liquor/beer/ cigarette companies- to name a few- are also great long term investments!

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