Question Period

RexLibris
February 11 2013 08:07AM

It seems the Oilers are entering a tipping point of sorts.

Scanning the intertubes I’ve noticed that fans are beginning to schism into two familiar, yet divergent camps.

There are the ones who are hoping for a strong playoff push. They see the Oilers as ready to lift themselves up off the NHL mat and throw a few punches back at the league that has beaten them down (and rewarded them handsomely for it) these past few years. These fans want the playoffs this year, or a whisker away from it at the very least.

On the other side are those who look at this team and, bourgeoning stars aside, see some areas of concern they would like addressed, preferably through the draft. These fans are comfortable with a finish between 13th and 15th in the West and will wait another year before putting their foot down on a playoff appearance.

Both groups of fans want nothing more than a parade with a big shiny silver chalice going down Jasper Avenue. So the disagreement at this point is more or less academic.

WHATS THE MOVE?

But it does raise some interesting questions. Are the Oilers best served by getting into a playoff race this year, pushing for a spot, and perhaps falling short by a few points but showing that they will be ready for prime time when the 2013-2014 season starts?

Or perhaps the Oilers would be best having their roster holes made apparent and facing the struggles this brings?

From where I sit this boils down to two perspectives: the first focuses on the development of the players while the second questions the development and decision-making of management.

If the Oilers look ready for a playoff jump this year might management move some assets to try and bolster a roster for a post-season push? It could certainly happen.

And if they fall out of the playoff picture by the beginning of March would management focus instead on addressing long-term needs by making decisions on expiring UFAs Ryan Whitney and Ryan Jones?

Will they be buyers or sellers? If buyers, how many chips do they cash in and to what effect? We all remember the Avalanche making the playoffs the year after they drafted Matt Duchene and Ryan O’Reilly. The next year they were back in the basement and it appeared that management got the impression the team was better, or at least more advanced than they actually were. Could the Oilers make the same mistake if they got into the playoffs this year?

Were the Oilers to finish well outside of the playoff race, but still north of where they’ve sat these past three seasons (because south of, and adjacent to, dead last isn’t an option) they would be assured of a pretty decent draft order. And drafting good players is something fans can get addicted to.

I’ll admit that I tend to fall into the latter group here. I see holes in both the roster and development group. I hesitate to make any move that comes at the cost of the draft, but there are trades I would like to see worked out as well. Unless the Oilers make a decision to address organizational shortcomings by subtracting from their respectable stockpile of young and prospect-level players, I won’t hold my breath.

So which group do you tend to fall into?

Are you looking for a great season with some post-season promise in the hopes that it will help educate the young core on how to win in the playoffs? Do you want to see some moves made that would cash in some prospect chips for those veteran players that good teams always seem to have? Do you want the team to just keep on keeping on and draft a second line centre with size?

Is it too early to talk draft? I’m never likely to say no to that, but others might feel differently.

HOW ABOUT A TRADE

The Oilers are clearly entering the crucial window wherein a team that has rebuilt either starts filling the holes or loses young talent to attrition and continues to spin their wheels. I like to call that territory “the Long Island Mile”, a stretch of proverbial highway (to use Lowetide’s favourite metaphor) that sees a team either take the off-ramp to improvement or just keep rolling along on cruise-control.

So, to start things off, how about I propose a trade idea that might qualify as a “wow” sort of move. Keep in mind, this suggestion is just to signify the kind of move that I think the Oilers need to make. This would address two areas in which I feel the Oilers are struggling or are going to struggle in the near future but I hope also recognizes that it comes at a cost.

My target in this hypothetical is Phoenix because of the NHL ownership angle and due to their system needing an influx of prospects. The Coyotes cannot afford the luxury even of an abbreviated rebuilding phase due to severe financial concerns and the desperate need to grow the brand within their market.

In exchange for Oliver Ekman-Larsson, Kyle Chipchura and Henrik Samuelsson the Oilers would send back Magnus Paajarvi, Ryan Whitney (minus half the dollar amount on his contract through the Retained Salary mechanism in the CBA), Tyler Pitlick, Toni Rajala, David Musil and a 2nd round pick in this year’s draft.

The Oilers have a wealth of prospects at many positions, but need to acquire two key positions for their future, that of a defensive partner for Justin Schultz and a potential future 2nd or 3rd line centre. This addresses both those needs.

The assets Phoenix acquires aren’t insignificant and diversify their prospect pool immediately. The financial aspect of the deal would see the Oilers on the hook for Ekman-Larsson’s next contract (he is an RFA at the end of the year), as well as retaining half of the remaining money of Ryan Whitney’s contract. Chipchura coming the Oilers’ way is solely to balance the contracts on the reserve list for both teams, the Coyotes currently sit at 49 contracts and GMs are very hesitant to remain at the 50-contract max for long.

The Oilers could also flip Daniil Zharkov for Alex Bolduc to appease Don Maloney in this regard, but the Coyotes could just as easily trade an expiring UFA for a draft pick at the deadline and solve their own problems more to their liking.

So, what do you think? Which camp do you find yourself in, anxious to see some progress or patient for this year? Do you have any faith in the management group or are your concerns primarily with on-ice issues? How about the proposed trade idea? Go on, tear me a new one in the comments section, or propose your own trades or player-types that you’d like to target. I’ll set the over-under at the number of comments before someone proposes a Sam Gagner trade at 1.5.

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#51 K_Mart
February 11 2013, 11:35AM
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I am on the side of making a push and making a trade at the deadline.

So for fun, just assume the Oil are sitting between 10th and 7th at the deadline, or are a maximum of 3-4 pts out of the playoffs.

The Oilers NEED TO FIND A TRADING PARTNER WITH THE FOLLOWING ATTRIBUTES:

-Team is in a fairly obvious position to explode itself or is already in the first year or two of a rebuild. -They should be sitting in 10th-15th place in their conference at the deadline. -They need to have at least one very useful but moveable player who won't be in their prime for the end of a rebuild. (Min 27 years old assuming a 6 year rebuild) -Those useful players should not be over 33 yrs old and have clearly at least 4 good years left. -The gm cannot work for an ownership group that would clearly fire him for blowing up the team. -The team needs to know that they can afford a rebuild. ie the fans won't all just bail. -Preferably not in our division(there goes calgary) -Gm/owner preferably has a history of blowing up their team. -GM thoroughly trusts his scouting crew and will place higher value on draft picks in a trade.

A team like this will only want players that are 27 years or younger. I doubt they'd want any part of Whitney or Hemsky. I love acting like the oilers are buyers after finishing 30th, 30th, and 29th. Oh to be a foolish fan.

So the moveable players for the oil are: Potter Peckham Gagner Klefbom Paajarvi Lander Teubert Rajala Omark Musil Gernat Bunz Hovinen Hartikainen Draft Picks** this is the key**

Now who fits this bill? Or is close to it? Pretty much zero if you want a perfect match.

Teams for whom I believe the writing is on the wall or are at least heading in this direction: -Nashville -Toronto -Winnipeg -Detroit (hope hope) -San Jose (hope hope)Attack me all you want for this one, but wouldn't you just LOOOOOVE it if they were sellers at the deadline? They are at the age where it could happen. Their core outside of Pavelski and Couture is all 30+ yrs old. Everyone get your San Jose voodoo dolls out (am I the only one?) and start hacking the bone. Let's hope they are sitting 11th or worse come deadline. -Columbus -Calgary -and maybe, just maybe... washington. Although the last rebuild didn't turn out so well for them. Ovechkin has failed that organization.

Let's pray that two of these teams are right in line with our requirements come trade deadline. An obvious team and a not so obvious team. 1)Columbus 2)San jose (keep the death rays coming)

Let's assume both these teams are 11th or worse in the west at the deadline. I really don't think it's that far off for San Jose. I'm not betting on them finishing that low, but I'm hoping for it. How much steam can old men really have in a sprint?

Now who are their useful and moveable assets that are between 27-33 years old? CBJ: Umberger, Tyutin, and Wisniewski. I'd love to go for J.Johnson but CBJ will ask more than we want to give so forget it, plus they are building around him.

UMBERGER: LW - 6'2" 220lbs 30 yrs old, 50 pt player. Can move up or down in the line up easy. Ryan smyth replacement anyone? TYUTIN: LD - 6'2" 215 lbs 29 yrs old, 35 pt D man. WISNIEWSKI: LD - 6'0" 208 lbs 29 yrs old, INJURY RISK

With CBJ, it's UMBERGER. That's who I'd go after. Not sure what I'd pay, but between MPS,LANDER,OMARK,KLEFBOM,DRAFT PICKS, TEUBERT, and HARTIKAINEN, there is a package to be made.

Now, SAN JOSE, I know they are good, but I'm just praying they fall off sooner rather than later. Their core is at the tail end of its prime and right now they still carry high value.

They have a far superior core to CBJ but their core is nearing the end of its life expectancy: CLOWE: LW 30 yrs old, 6'2", 225 lbs HAVLAT: RW 31 yrs old, 6'2" 210 lbs MARLEAU: LW 33 yrs old, 6'2", 220 lbs THORNTON: C 33 yrs old, 6'4", 225 lbs STUART: 6'2", 33 lbs, 215 lbs (Pavelski and Couture are not players they'd trade if they were sellers.) I want them all.. lol.

I'd target Clowe or Stuart, or both. But for what price?

1st rounders? MPS, KLEFBOM, omark...?? I'd be curious to see what kind of package San Jose would want for both guys. MPS,Klefbom,Omark, Potter, plus a pick? Do I need to sub out potter with a guaranteed nhl starter? R. Jones? Eager? Whitney?

Once we inch closer to the deadline, then this topic can become more relevant.

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#52 Clarko
February 11 2013, 11:35AM
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Oilfred wrote:

The point is they would have a great nucleus to build from.

It has to be a long term vision. Making the right moves is tough, and doing nothing, often is the right move.

Its not sexy but to move pieces now that will be useful in in two years when this is a contending team seems foolish.

We're not a great team, but we could be soon if we can just stay calm and let it happen.

Hall and Ebs are men. Wait till Nail and Nuge get there too.

I'm not talking about trading any of the nucleus. You're keeping Hall, Eberle, RNH, Yakupov, and Schultz. I'm talking about trading draft picks (who are probably going to be 4-5 years away from making a real impact) or prospects. And again, you aren't giving them away, you only make a trade if it brings you in something this team clearly needs.

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#53 Oilfred
February 11 2013, 11:45AM
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Clarko wrote:

I'm not talking about trading any of the nucleus. You're keeping Hall, Eberle, RNH, Yakupov, and Schultz. I'm talking about trading draft picks (who are probably going to be 4-5 years away from making a real impact) or prospects. And again, you aren't giving them away, you only make a trade if it brings you in something this team clearly needs.

I think you don't move this class. Maybe the 2014 class but this one is too important to the future.

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#54 K_Mart
February 11 2013, 11:45AM
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Oilfred wrote:

Trading picks in this years draft is crazy. Like Brian Burke nuke the Leafs forever stupid.

Its a crazy deep pool. The top 8 look insane. It looks like the '03 draft. Go back and look at that draft class and tell me how many rd 1 and rd 2 picks you want to flush to maybe make the playoffs in what is crap shoot year.

Zona had a great article on NHL Numbers about how mush luck and chance will play a factor this year.

Give your head a shake. Repeat.

Again.

Patience grasshopper.

First off, there is no way this draft is as deep as the 2003 draft. Anytime you hear a so called credible source make that comparison they are just being salesmen. Second, PATIENCE?!?!? Seven years is patient enough.

If a first round pick can fetch us a playoff spot, then I say do it!

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#55 @Oilanderp
February 11 2013, 11:50AM
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We all want the playoffs, but be realistic. For you math guys out there:

What is the next number in the sequence:

30, 30, 29, ...

Express your answer in terms of the lowest common irrational hope.

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#56 27Ginge
February 11 2013, 12:07PM
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I would target the Pittsburgh Penguins. They are getting pretty old and terrible. I would send a package of Ryan Smyth, Linus Omark, Tobias Rieder, Ryan Whitney, Ales Hemsky, Sam Gagner, Shawn Horcoff and a conditional fourth rounder for Kris Letang, Joe Morrow and James Neal.

Or that Ekman-Larsson deal, either one.

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#57 Alex Mathis
February 11 2013, 12:10PM
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Hordichuck on waivers. I regret this move, he was never given a fair chance IMO. I'm curious what's going to happen next (Peckham, Jones coming back...).

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#58 Phixieus666
February 11 2013, 12:18PM
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Alex Mathis wrote:

Hordichuck on waivers. I regret this move, he was never given a fair chance IMO. I'm curious what's going to happen next (Peckham, Jones coming back...).

He couldn't play a regular shift. Hordi on waivers Smyth should sit next game and CVV should be called up to play center. Pretty logical move really. They may even be happy if someone claims him and frees up a contract slot.

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#59 Shane
February 11 2013, 12:22PM
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27Ginge wrote:

I would target the Pittsburgh Penguins. They are getting pretty old and terrible. I would send a package of Ryan Smyth, Linus Omark, Tobias Rieder, Ryan Whitney, Ales Hemsky, Sam Gagner, Shawn Horcoff and a conditional fourth rounder for Kris Letang, Joe Morrow and James Neal.

Or that Ekman-Larsson deal, either one.

Double.

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#60 Oilfred
February 11 2013, 12:25PM
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K_Mart wrote:

First off, there is no way this draft is as deep as the 2003 draft. Anytime you hear a so called credible source make that comparison they are just being salesmen. Second, PATIENCE?!?!? Seven years is patient enough.

If a first round pick can fetch us a playoff spot, then I say do it!

This is fans don't run teams. What if you do get enough for that pick to push you in, then Dubie gets hurt? Or Hall or . . .

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#61 The poster formerly known as Koolaid drinker #33
February 11 2013, 12:33PM
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@@Oilanderp

"Don't ruin it all by trying to force it to come early."

That's what she said!

Totally agree with you though. The building blocks are already there. No need for rash stupid moves now. You've danced and bought her drinks all night, now it's time to take her home. Don't go crazy and ask her friend to join you too.

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#62 The poster formerly known as Koolaid drinker #33
February 11 2013, 12:35PM
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Shane wrote:

Anyone going to take this one or should I?

Nope, leave it please. It doesn't need any responses.

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#63 Bonvie
February 11 2013, 12:39PM
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@@Oilanderp

You would be more likely to get a trade if you look at a player who has fallen of there pace and is being healthy scratched, and look at organizations who have depth in those areas to replace that player.

Exhibit 1 Tyler Myers Has been healthy scratched this year. Struggling out of the gate, and is coming off a disappointing season before the lockout. I am not positive on this point but I think he is owed aroun 10 mil in salary bonus. Buffalo has a lot of depth at D and several are ready to play at the NHL level. Buffalo has been trading away talent when they got expensive replacing them with depth in their orgaization and had been doing this for well over a decade and had alot of success in doing so having several good cup runs. A few years back they had new owners come in and started spending even signing expensive free agents however have been less successful with this approach. This guy is struggling but he is still the real deal and he is a long term with cap hit of 5 mil.

Exhibit 2 Del Zotto Held out for contract and was signed for reasonable dollars but has not performed well so far, and is falling out of favor with Torts and the fans. Rangers have good depth on defence. Del Zotto could do what Whitney was supposed to do be able to play in the top 4 if needed.

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#64 K_Mart
February 11 2013, 12:41PM
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Oilfred wrote:

This is fans don't run teams. What if you do get enough for that pick to push you in, then Dubie gets hurt? Or Hall or . . .

What if we draft a solid prospect, then Dubie gets hurt? or Hall or...

Then we will still be a losing team but with a prospect who is 5 years younger than Eberle. Eventually we will need our scouting to draft us good players later in the rounds.

Think about your logic. All playoff teams run the risk of injuries. Not every team can have luongo in case their starter gets injured.

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#65 Will
February 11 2013, 12:44PM
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This has been such a weird year where nearly every major prediction has been wrong. A team billed as high scoring offensive powerhouse with questionable goal tending and defence, has actually been a special teams powerhouse, with stellar goal tending, and occasionally questionable defence.

I just have to wonder what it is going to take to get our offensive weapons clicking at 5 on 5, and whether or not when / if that happens, if all the detractors and critics kind of change direction.

I think our defence is going to solve itself through the draft as if even one of our prospects go all Jeff Petry, that makes a nice deep solid six, which could be padded by picking up some vet defenders in the mold of Nick Schultz, or Fistrics, or Smids from around the league.

As for our forwards, the too small argument really seems to be gaining steam. I'd buy out Horcoff in hopes he resigns for less money. Then really take a hard look at an expensive UFA, or see what one of our young stars will net back. I really like Yakupov but if trading him makes our team better, then do it.

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#66 K_Mart
February 11 2013, 12:46PM
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@Oilanderp wrote:

We all want the playoffs, but be realistic. For you math guys out there:

What is the next number in the sequence:

30, 30, 29, ...

Express your answer in terms of the lowest common irrational hope.

It's foolish to think we can all of a sudden go from 30th to 8th, but our team is so different from the starting roster we had last year that we can realistically expect a jump to 11-12th in the west.

In: Jultz Nultz Yakupov Fistric

Out: Gilbert Hordichuk Peckham

This is not an insignificant change.

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#67 2004Z06
February 11 2013, 12:48PM
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How many years do people want the Oilers to tank? Do you understand the mental side of the game? Why are we instilling the culture that losing is rewarded? We have more top 5 picks than most teams could dream of having. We need to start learning how to WIN! You cannot keep saying year after year "wait til next year". I don't expect to make the playoffs this year, but I do expect significant improvement. We need to move some pieces to make this team tougher to play against.

I cannot believe some here are happy to lose!

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#68 lolhockey
February 11 2013, 12:51PM
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Whitney is competing with Potter for ice time and you think Whitney is some kind of "sweetner" to the deal? If that proposal was posted on HFBoards, it would be considered a troll post.

Imagine you are Don Maloney. Would you make the trade? The answer is obviously no.

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#69 Smokey
February 11 2013, 12:53PM
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eastcoastoil wrote:

I am definitely in the camp of staying the course. If you want a trade then...

I do not see a need to address the second line center. Gagner is more than effective in that role but needs some defensive help on that line.

The hole is on LW, who's behind hall. Yak has scored from the right side not the left.

Move one of the RW(Hemsky/Yak) for a lefty. Someone who is large two player with experiance or size. Max Pacioretty, Scott Hartnell, Patrick Marleau or even pipe dream Milan Lucic.

Size in the top six solved...

let the roast begin

I think there's a camp that don't believe your going to compete for a cup with him in that role because he does not have the size or grit. He's putting up points, and has been consistant this year. He's still getting destroyed on the dot, and he's limited defensively due to his lack of foot speed. His foot speed is better, but still not great. He can't handle the Joe Thorton's or Getlaf's. I think we need to look past the points and realize that his line this year has got outshot and outchanced. If you only look at the points, then your looking at the glass half full.

Do you believe this team competes for cup with Sam as your second line center?

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#70 27Ginge
February 11 2013, 12:55PM
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lolhockey wrote:

Whitney is competing with Potter for ice time and you think Whitney is some kind of "sweetner" to the deal? If that proposal was posted on HFBoards, it would be considered a troll post.

Imagine you are Don Maloney. Would you make the trade? The answer is obviously no.

I think that was point I was making. Apparently some guys thought I was being legit. Conditional fourth rounder should have been the red herring. Or was it Smyth?

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#71 SurfacetoAirMissile
February 11 2013, 12:57PM
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Look no further than the St. Louis Blues if you are looking for a trade partner. You can look at their cap situation and see they will have zero issues getting under the cap for next year. However, they are not a Cap team they are a self imposed budget team. Both Shatenkirk and Petriangelo are due big time raises next year. In addition they need to sign Berglund and Stewart and there two other RFA defencemen.

They will however get a break letting McDonalds contract go but they will also need to plan for the following year. Eliot and Halak are both UFAs.

There is no situation I forsee that allows them to sign all of their players and keep to their budget. It is like the Walmart of the NHL..... You want your power forward (Stewart on isle 9) You want your top pairing defenceman (Petriangelo in isle 4) You want your franchise goalie (Halak isle 7). Tambo just needs to target a guy and pull the trigger.

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#72 sledhed
February 11 2013, 01:07PM
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i think i fall into the latter also, as i would like the management group to get some veteran help in here, but we both know that they will sit on their hands at least until the deadline, and see what they've got with a full roster(jones,horcoff). if it takes some prospects to fix this teams shortfalls, then DO IT TAMBO!!!!

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#73 Sailge
February 11 2013, 01:20PM
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2004Z06 wrote:

How many years do people want the Oilers to tank? Do you understand the mental side of the game? Why are we instilling the culture that losing is rewarded? We have more top 5 picks than most teams could dream of having. We need to start learning how to WIN! You cannot keep saying year after year "wait til next year". I don't expect to make the playoffs this year, but I do expect significant improvement. We need to move some pieces to make this team tougher to play against.

I cannot believe some here are happy to lose!

Infini-props.

Enough with the losing.

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#74 Walter Sobchak
February 11 2013, 01:20PM
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I fall into the draft/trade and I'll tell you why.

First the Oilers don't neded OEL, he's not what the Oilers need, we have Schultz.

I've already mentioned this but here it goes.

The Oilers wait till the draft, they draft Barkov or Monahan.

The Oilers trade- Petry- Hemsky--Tuebert a 1st and 2nd round pick in 2015 for Shea Weber.

The Predators don't have the funds to keep him, they get the players they want.

Later that day the Oilers sign UFA Ryan Clowe and Ryan Getzlaf.

The Oilers got a top pairing defensmen with more PP options.

The Oilers got significantly tougher

The Oilers have depth through the line up.

The Oilers don't need players like OEL, the Oilers need Weber.

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#75 Mac962
February 11 2013, 01:21PM
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2004Z06 wrote:

How many years do people want the Oilers to tank? Do you understand the mental side of the game? Why are we instilling the culture that losing is rewarded? We have more top 5 picks than most teams could dream of having. We need to start learning how to WIN! You cannot keep saying year after year "wait til next year". I don't expect to make the playoffs this year, but I do expect significant improvement. We need to move some pieces to make this team tougher to play against.

I cannot believe some here are happy to lose!

Exactly. Its only a matter of time that this losing mentality and the frustration with not improving the team tires with guys like Hall- Eberle-Nuge etc, yes they are patient and realize they are young but they need to see somethi ng from upstairs that they are trying to put the right pieces in place.

The only Reason Hall - Nuge - Yak are here is because the Oilers were a terrible hockey team and we had first pick.

The Only reason Justin is here is he picked us !!

Kevin Lowe - Steve Tambellini have done nothing to improve this team. Think about it. Who is on this team because of these guy's brilliant moves ? No one. Failure has made them look good. It will catch up to them now and one them will follow Darcy out of town.

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#76 Phixieus666
February 11 2013, 01:28PM
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Walter Sobchak wrote:

I fall into the draft/trade and I'll tell you why.

First the Oilers don't neded OEL, he's not what the Oilers need, we have Schultz.

I've already mentioned this but here it goes.

The Oilers wait till the draft, they draft Barkov or Monahan.

The Oilers trade- Petry- Hemsky--Tuebert a 1st and 2nd round pick in 2015 for Shea Weber.

The Predators don't have the funds to keep him, they get the players they want.

Later that day the Oilers sign UFA Ryan Clowe and Ryan Getzlaf.

The Oilers got a top pairing defensmen with more PP options.

The Oilers got significantly tougher

The Oilers have depth through the line up.

The Oilers don't need players like OEL, the Oilers need Weber.

Might want to have a look at Weber so far this season without Suter. He's not looking so hot. I wouldn't be willing to give up that much for Weber right now. Especially since I believe that Petry could end up being a top pairing guy. He hasn't been shooting the puck as much this season because of Schultz but I wouldn't mind seeing those two on PP1 unit together. Petry has a good slapshot and Schultz a wicked wrister. Makes for some very interesting variety on the PP i would think.

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#77 Walter Sobchak
February 11 2013, 01:29PM
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27Ginge wrote:

Salary Cap?

People can criticize this as much as they want, this is at the very lest plausible.

The Pred's can't afford Weber, the Oilers have good players to offer.

The rest is how bad do the Oilers want those UFA's?

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#78 Walter Sobchak
February 11 2013, 01:31PM
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Phixieus666 wrote:

Might want to have a look at Weber so far this season without Suter. He's not looking so hot. I wouldn't be willing to give up that much for Weber right now. Especially since I believe that Petry could end up being a top pairing guy. He hasn't been shooting the puck as much this season because of Schultz but I wouldn't mind seeing those two on PP1 unit together. Petry has a good slapshot and Schultz a wicked wrister. Makes for some very interesting variety on the PP i would think.

Petry is nooooooot a top pairing defensmen.

Look how Suter is not playing with Weber. We have Schultz JR to play along side Weber, my guess is that Weber returns to form.

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#79 DonDon
February 11 2013, 01:32PM
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"If a first round pick can fetch us a playoff spot, then I say do it!"

The present makeup of the Oilers' team contains many holes, what one player could the club acquire that would push it into the playoffs? And once in the playoffs, would the team be a contender for the SC?

Last night the Oilers faced the worst team in the NHL, Columbus. What happened? The Oilers were outplayed and outshot 40-14 by the CBJ, but won 3-1 on the outstanding performance of Dubnyk. The win ended a 5-game losing streak. The playoffs?

Trading first round draft picks prior to the entry level draft for any NHL team is a mark of insanity (see Burke, Maple Leafs 2010).

I belong to the group that doesn't have confidence in the management being able to execute a fair trade. Clearly aware that their record for trades is abysmal, they are naturally reluctant to trade (other than when they panic, the results of which just reinforce their abysmal record).

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#80 Walter Sobchak
February 11 2013, 01:36PM
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DonDon wrote:

"If a first round pick can fetch us a playoff spot, then I say do it!"

The present makeup of the Oilers' team contains many holes, what one player could the club acquire that would push it into the playoffs? And once in the playoffs, would the team be a contender for the SC?

Last night the Oilers faced the worst team in the NHL, Columbus. What happened? The Oilers were outplayed and outshot 40-14 by the CBJ, but won 3-1 on the outstanding performance of Dubnyk. The win ended a 5-game losing streak. The playoffs?

Trading first round draft picks prior to the entry level draft for any NHL team is a mark of insanity (see Burke, Maple Leafs 2010).

I belong to the group that doesn't have confidence in the management being able to execute a fair trade. Clearly aware that their record for trades is abysmal, they are naturally reluctant to trade (other than when they panic, the results of which just reinforce their abysmal record).

You lost me at......." If a first rounder an fetch us a playoff spot then do it"

This is what got the Oilers here in the first place, "just good enough" is south down the QE2 280 km.

No thanks pass.

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#81 Phixieus666
February 11 2013, 01:39PM
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Walter Sobchak wrote:

Petry is nooooooot a top pairing defensmen.

Look how Suter is not playing with Weber. We have Schultz JR to play along side Weber, my guess is that Weber returns to form.

I didn't say Petry was yet but he could end up being a #2. Just not willing to sell the farm for one player.

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#82 27Ginge
February 11 2013, 01:41PM
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I'm not criticizing. I'd love those moves as much as you. Just impossible to do. But I agree Walter. You didn't watch your brothers die face down in the muck in Vietnam so that the Oilers can settle for mediocrity.

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#83 tileguy
February 11 2013, 01:42PM
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A: I haven't been smokin anything.

I think we all agree we have to do something about our small top 6. My suggestion is we deal the guy with the bad shoulder, RNH. He is at maximum value right now, has a boys body and i don't think he will ever grow big and strong.

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#84 dougtheslug
February 11 2013, 01:42PM
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Will wrote:

This has been such a weird year where nearly every major prediction has been wrong. A team billed as high scoring offensive powerhouse with questionable goal tending and defence, has actually been a special teams powerhouse, with stellar goal tending, and occasionally questionable defence.

I just have to wonder what it is going to take to get our offensive weapons clicking at 5 on 5, and whether or not when / if that happens, if all the detractors and critics kind of change direction.

I think our defence is going to solve itself through the draft as if even one of our prospects go all Jeff Petry, that makes a nice deep solid six, which could be padded by picking up some vet defenders in the mold of Nick Schultz, or Fistrics, or Smids from around the league.

As for our forwards, the too small argument really seems to be gaining steam. I'd buy out Horcoff in hopes he resigns for less money. Then really take a hard look at an expensive UFA, or see what one of our young stars will net back. I really like Yakupov but if trading him makes our team better, then do it.

In the areas where Kruger's Swiss style coaching can be observed (PK, bend but don't break defence), the Oilers seem (seem?) to be improved (although maybe that is optimistic - 40 shots on goal by Columbus doesn't inspire confidence in a tight defensive system). Maybe the offence will take time to adapt - we all know the tools are there.

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#85 Bonvie
February 11 2013, 01:44PM
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@Walter Sobchak

The team that signs the high profile UFA usually lose, they overpay and enter a longer term than the player can be effective for.

There is a definite need to get sandpaper in our lineup, but I think we need to find someone who is younger than Clowe, who has not reached his potential so we can avoid overpaying. We already have Eager, Jones, and Hartakainen.

For me Getzlaf is likely to be awarded a contract that he will never be able to live up to when he becomes a UFA. I don't see how you add those players mentioned and stay within the cap for the next four or five years. I like weber but that is a huge contract it is almost impossible to imagine him outplaying his contract over the next 10 years. In a guy like Myers you can get your top pairing shutdown D for a reasonable cap hit.

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#86 Phixieus666
February 11 2013, 01:45PM
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@Phixieus666

Actually Datsyuk is smaller.

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#87 dougthesluig
February 11 2013, 01:46PM
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27Ginge wrote:

I'm not criticizing. I'd love those moves as much as you. Just impossible to do. But I agree Walter. You didn't watch your brothers die face down in the muck in Vietnam so that the Oilers can settle for mediocrity.

"What is the connection between Vietnam and Oiler mediocrity?" (God, I loved that movie)

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#88 27Ginge
February 11 2013, 01:47PM
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dougthesluig wrote:

"What is the connection between Vietnam and Oiler mediocrity?" (God, I loved that movie)

Best movie ever.

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#89 John Chambers
February 11 2013, 01:47PM
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Rex,

Great topic for a discussion. Obviously a lot of healthy debate to be had.

THE CHAMBERS PLAN :) With Dubnyk, Petry, Nuge, and the younger Schultz up for big raises after '13-'14, the Oilers can't waste years where their young core is affordable and able to make a run. The Oilers should be willing to trade picks in the 2nd round (we have two!) and beyond, along with middling prospects to fill out the roster NOW and leg out the competition for the playoffs. The kids will benefit immensely from the experience.

Ultimately we'll have to trade someone like Hemsky for a young, affordable Dman like Sekara or Nikitin, get rid of Whitney, buy out Horcoff in the offseason, and fill ou the roster with solid 2-way players (like Belanger, Fiddler, Winnik, Moen, etc) on good contracts.

The fans have waited long enough. The players are eager to show the league what they're made of - the time is now for management to compliment the core ... of course without dealing any of our BEST prospects (Musil & Klefbom) or 1st round picks.

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#90 dougtheslug
February 11 2013, 01:51PM
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DonDon wrote:

"If a first round pick can fetch us a playoff spot, then I say do it!"

The present makeup of the Oilers' team contains many holes, what one player could the club acquire that would push it into the playoffs? And once in the playoffs, would the team be a contender for the SC?

Last night the Oilers faced the worst team in the NHL, Columbus. What happened? The Oilers were outplayed and outshot 40-14 by the CBJ, but won 3-1 on the outstanding performance of Dubnyk. The win ended a 5-game losing streak. The playoffs?

Trading first round draft picks prior to the entry level draft for any NHL team is a mark of insanity (see Burke, Maple Leafs 2010).

I belong to the group that doesn't have confidence in the management being able to execute a fair trade. Clearly aware that their record for trades is abysmal, they are naturally reluctant to trade (other than when they panic, the results of which just reinforce their abysmal record).

Not much can be made of Sunday's game, other than teams around the league are struggling on the second half of a back to back - I saw Calgary last week make mincemeat out Chicago when the Hawks were back to back - out chanced them 35-10, out shot them a zillion to 15 ( and still lost, I might add). The Oil expended a lot the day before to play a still dangerous Wings team pretty even (other than faceoffs)The game tomorrow against Dallas is crucial in my mind to see what kind of bounceback there is.

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#91 K_Mart
February 11 2013, 01:54PM
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Walter Sobchak wrote:

I fall into the draft/trade and I'll tell you why.

First the Oilers don't neded OEL, he's not what the Oilers need, we have Schultz.

I've already mentioned this but here it goes.

The Oilers wait till the draft, they draft Barkov or Monahan.

The Oilers trade- Petry- Hemsky--Tuebert a 1st and 2nd round pick in 2015 for Shea Weber.

The Predators don't have the funds to keep him, they get the players they want.

Later that day the Oilers sign UFA Ryan Clowe and Ryan Getzlaf.

The Oilers got a top pairing defensmen with more PP options.

The Oilers got significantly tougher

The Oilers have depth through the line up.

The Oilers don't need players like OEL, the Oilers need Weber.

First off, I'm talking about DRAWING A LINE IN THE SAND DUDE, AND ACROSS THAT LINE, YOU DO NOT... oh and dude, OEL is not the preferred nomenclature. Ekman-Larsson please.

This post is a complete pipe dream and miles from plausible. As a fellow fan I love the magic you wish to weave. San Jose will not allow clowe to bail as a UFA. They will either trade or resign him. Same goes for Anaheim. If either of these players make it seem like they won't sign, then they will be traded.

So rare that players like that just go UFA with no return of any kind.

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#92 Phixieus666
February 11 2013, 01:56PM
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John Chambers wrote:

Rex,

Great topic for a discussion. Obviously a lot of healthy debate to be had.

THE CHAMBERS PLAN :) With Dubnyk, Petry, Nuge, and the younger Schultz up for big raises after '13-'14, the Oilers can't waste years where their young core is affordable and able to make a run. The Oilers should be willing to trade picks in the 2nd round (we have two!) and beyond, along with middling prospects to fill out the roster NOW and leg out the competition for the playoffs. The kids will benefit immensely from the experience.

Ultimately we'll have to trade someone like Hemsky for a young, affordable Dman like Sekara or Nikitin, get rid of Whitney, buy out Horcoff in the offseason, and fill ou the roster with solid 2-way players (like Belanger, Fiddler, Winnik, Moen, etc) on good contracts.

The fans have waited long enough. The players are eager to show the league what they're made of - the time is now for management to compliment the core ... of course without dealing any of our BEST prospects (Musil & Klefbom) or 1st round picks.

Ya I can agree with that, and that is why a Weber trade just doesn't make sense. You'd have to give up a lot. It would make more sense to improve the forwards and try to out score other teams this season. Next season see what Kelfbom brings and whether players like Gernat,Peckham, Marincin, or Musil are closer to the bigs than expected or in Peckham's case good enough to stay in the bigs. I think most people would agree that the level of scoring isn't near where everyone thought it would be.

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#93 roloson
February 11 2013, 01:57PM
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@tileguy

hopkins is 19 and has played 73 games in the nhl. you think this is his max value and that he'll never grow bigger?

you sound like youve been smoking meth.

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#94 Walter Sobchak
February 11 2013, 02:02PM
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Phixieus666 wrote:

I didn't say Petry was yet but he could end up being a #2. Just not willing to sell the farm for one player.

Selling the farm for Petry and Hemsky for Weber? If that's the extent we hold our players or team up too, then maybe we should look at reevaluating what we consider good players.

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#95 The Other Ron Burgundy
February 11 2013, 02:02PM
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Pens would be an intriguing partner. They have a plethora of young D on the cusp. A Paajarvi for Despres (or Dumoulin, or Morrow, or Pouliot) deal might make sense for both teams. That's assuming something like Hemsky and Whitney for Letang+ (Beau Bennett?) wouldn't work.

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#96 Phixieus666
February 11 2013, 02:05PM
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Walter Sobchak wrote:

Selling the farm for Petry and Hemsky for Weber? If that's the extent we hold our players or team up too, then maybe we should look at reevaluating what we consider good players.

You had 1st round picks in there too. And the forward core on the farm is weak as weak can be.

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#97 K_Mart
February 11 2013, 02:07PM
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Are there so many people around here that really think we are so far from a playoff spot that we need to keep tanking?

Do you really think these first 12 games are an accurate representation of every team??!?

We have been slumping, and somehow still getting points. NUGE and EBS have been fighting it and we have been close in most games. Do you actually think they won't break out of their respective slumps?!?!

Stay the course?? 6 years of straight garbage is the course you want?

Sure CBJ outplayed us horribly last night, but this is the NHL, not the NFL. Any team can lose to any other team on any given night. CBJ beat detroit, nashville, dallas, and almost beat Chicago.

Look at LA, do you really think they are as bad as their record indicates? We have a roster right now that, even as is, would grow into a contender within 5 years with very little change. Once Hall, Ebs, Nuge, gags, Schultz, and Yak all reach the 23-29 yr old mark we will most certainly be contenders. If Tambi was still thinking purely development he wouldn't have fired Renney. The plan is to win now. We are better than many of you give us credit for. I will be BLOWN AWAY if we finish worse than 12th in the west.

With Gilbert, Peckham, and Hordichuk gone... we are so much better. Replace them with Yakupov, Jultz, Nultz, and fistric. We are at least 2 positions better than last year.

The only reason I could see us not shipping out prospects and picks to push us in to the playoffs is to sustain success beyond 10 years from now. We will need to keep drafting well and developing players properly to sustain success beyond the era of Eberle.

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#98 Will
February 11 2013, 02:08PM
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@dougtheslug

I've had no problem with the coaching this year at all, and in fact I count it as one of the strong points on the team. I think the pieces to build a very tough team are there, but we're missing some badly needed pieces: another top 2 defender (what Whitney is when healthy), and a bit more size in our top six.

Our goal tending is solid, our defence is almost there, and our forwards have a lot of skill, they just need some more Hartikinens.

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#99 tileguy
February 11 2013, 02:12PM
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@Roloson Yes, max value right now before that shoulder goes Paaatoooooweeeee. He is the frailest of the 6 and he is not Gretzky or even Datsyuk.

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#100 K_Mart
February 11 2013, 02:18PM
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potential trading partners aka[teamsthatshouldrebuild] for the Oil.

-Nashville -Toronto -Winnipeg -Detroit (hope hope) -San Jose- -Columbus -Calgary(division rival I know) -and maybe, just maybe... washington.

San Jose and Detroit aren't likely to finish outside of the playoffs, but their years of dominance are definitely nearing an end and they may start a rebuild within the next 1-3 years. If either of them were to be 11th or worse come trade deadline there's a small chance they would dump a top forward who is older for picks and prospects.

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