O Captain, My Captain

Jason Strudwick
March 11 2013 11:15AM

Shawn Horcoff has been a lightning rod for fans frustrations for the last few years. With the big contract he received from the Oilers has come a lot of abuse. In my opinion, it’s unfair.

Yes, his salary is higher than you would like, but has that salary had an impact on the Oilers salary cap? Have they been unable to re-sign other players due to salary cap issues? It wasn't like they were trying to sign big free agents and his deal got in the way. His contract has been an easy target. Defending his deal is not the purpose of this though.

Shawn Horcoff returned to the lineup in Chicago. The impact of his presence in the lineup was immediate. The balance in the lines jumped off the page! With him out of the lineup the third line has been a mess. Coach Krueger has tried many combos and none have had much success or chemistry.

One example of this was the Yakupov, Belanger and Jones line. This line got nothing accomplished. It is not that I don't think each player has some value, but they are each so different as players that chemistry never was going to develop.

Against Chicago, Horcoff was played between Hemsky and Hall. I liked the way this line looked. In his rookie season Hall had success playing with Horcoff. Hemsky has played with the captain many times in his career. All three are familiar with each other and bring a unique set of skills to the line. Hall is the passion and attack. Hemsky is the sexy and slick weapon. Horcoff brings tremendous hustle, will and defensive awareness that every line requires.

It was very interesting for me to see the line Krueger put out at the end of the game against Chicago to protect the one goal lead. It was Horcoff's line. Having Horcoff out there is a no-brainer, he is your strongest and best defensive center. Hemsky is a veteran that has done the job in the past. But Hall is the surprise.

This kind of ice time for Hall indicates to me how much confidence the coach has in Hall to make the smart plays with the puck. Hall still has a ways to go in my mind to fully understand how to protect the lead at the end of the game, but obviously Krueger sees the potential there.

Reports out of Chicago mention a meeting that Horcoff organized for the team Saturday night in the hotel. It is not unusual at all for the captain to call this type of meeting.

Horcoff would have started the meeting. I bet he discussed the way the team has been playing and what has been missing from the group. I am guessing he challenged each players' pride to raise their game up and to compete.

In these types of meetings anyone can speak after the captain. Usually it starts with the veterans and other captains. Not everyone likes to speak, but those who do speak very honestly. I have been in meetings were two guys got into a "F... You!" contest.

Meetings allow players to vent and usually clears the air in a dressing room. When a team is winning everyone is buddy-buddy. When a losing streak strikes players tend to go off into little groups and bitch about other players and their personal lack of ice time. If it continues unchecked it can really do damage in a room. Bitchy, whiny clicks are a telltale sign of a group of losers.

Don't get me wrong, this meeting isn't going to send the Oilers on a twenty-four game win streak. It is good, however, for the younger players that will be the only leaders at some point to see how to respond when the team is on the express of a losing streak.

Finally....

The pairing of Potter and Whitney has not worked this year. They just don't complement each other. I can't quite put my finger on it,but they just seem to be more often than not working against one another rather than in unison. They shouldn't be playing together and were finally split.

I see improvement in Ryan Whitney's game. He has been producing points. In his mind he isn't contributing if he isn't getting points. His confidence should be on the mend and on the rise. This would be huge for the Oilers. The rest of his game should fill out if that happens.

I like what Krueger did in Chicago by splitting up Potter and Whitney and pairing them each with a Schultz. Justin S. played with Whitney, N. Schultz ended up with Potter. I thought Potter looked more relaxed with Nick. Sometimes playing with a guy like Whitney can throw a guy off. Whitney has been struggling and his body language has shown that. A guy like Potter can misinterpret that as being directed at him. He isn't sure enough of himself in the NHL to realize he is just got his own issues on the ice and that Whitney's frustration has nothing to do with him.

Overall I thought the pairings were better lat night than they had been in the last week, however, the bar wasn't set super high during that time. If Dubnyk is out for any amount of time, they will have to play their best defensive hockey of the year.

One Last Thing....

Did anyone else see those great retro uniforms the Kings were wearing on Saturday. I love those!

5cf6b487166aced0cd781e41bfef915e
Jason hosts the Jason Strudwick show from 9pm to 12am, weeknights on the team 1260. He is an instructor at Mount Carmel Hockey Academy and loves working with the kids. Having played over 650 games in the NHL, Jason has some great stories and unique takes on life in the NHL. He loves Slurpees and Blizzards. Dislikes baggy clothes and close talkers.
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#1 Locksmithluke
March 11 2013, 11:29AM
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Fist game back and Horc puts in a grinder!! I don't care what any of his critics think! The man bleeds copper and blue, I love the guy!!

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#2 The Soup Fascist
March 11 2013, 11:31AM
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Ok. Let's agree Horcoff is a useful player with a bad contract. This is a contract that runs two more years. The Oilers are in a bad position. They either miss out on the opportunity to rid themselves of a millstone contract or pay to get rid of a useful player they do not currently have a replacement for. Pick your poison.

If you were subjected to a lobotomy and were suddenly in the role of GM of this team Jason, what would you do?

Sounds like you are on the "pay dat man hees money" team. Will that be an issue in the next 2 years for attracting UFAs or resigning young talent?

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#3 Archaeologuy
March 11 2013, 11:32AM
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The Contract is ridiculous but the Hockey Player is still valuable. I'm no Horc apologist but the team is so young that the injection of professionalism and experience into the lineup looked like it took immediate affect.

How good he does in front of the net on the Power Play is really underrated. If Hartikainen wants to have a lengthy NHL career he can start by watching video on what it is that Horc is doing. He isnt overly noticeable like Holmstrom or Smyth in his prime, but something is going right when he's out there.

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#4 Will
March 11 2013, 11:37AM
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In my opinion, the Horcoff contract is more a lightning rod for the Lowe management team, and is another consistently glaring item that fans and media like to reference when presenting evidence of what bad management we have.

However, in equal measure, I think most fans who actually watch the games and pay a little bit of attention, know that the team is better with Horcoff than without. If not for the simple fact that without him, like you said, our third line is a mess. Having two lines that don't have to constantly go out and try to score while also trying to shut down the other team's best players is huge.

Horcoff brings a lot of difficult to quantify attributes to the team. I think his stretch away from the team shows how far away the team is from being either Hall or Eberle's. I'm not sure the other veterans will respond well to the kids, and having Horcoff their is nothing but good for the team. And like you said, his bloated contract has never hindered the team too much (maybe the dollars weren't their to qualify Glencross, not sure).

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#5 Jay
March 11 2013, 11:38AM
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Doesn't he get in the way of our goal of getting 6 1st overall picks in a row?

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#6 Racki
March 11 2013, 11:50AM
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Always enjoy your articles Jason.

I immediately approve of and love any post that speaks highly of Horcoff. Tired of the abuse he takes from fans. But I do think that the loudest people are always the negative people (just noticed the poll.. I'd say that emphasizes my point). I know there are lots of people that like and support Horcoff. But he does take more abuse than anyone. I don't really care how much money he makes. Yes, by NHL standards it is far from a value contract, but as you noted, it isn't standing in our way of signing anyone else.

I thought he had a really good start to the game. Towards the end, it looked like he showed some fatigue and he was doing too much by carrying the puck up ice and trying to beat guys 1 on 1 rather than making safer plays. It cost him vs. Hossa (although we ended up with a PP there) and also nearly cost him another time. But overall, it was great having him back.

I also am completely infatuated with Mike Brown. I liked the trade from the start, but Leafs fans were right.. after a few games, people will love him.

Lastly, Ryan Whitney has been playing his best hockey lately in recent times. He is helping showcase his trade.. it's necessary. As for Corey Potter, it's good that he's on a value contract, cause I think a lot of nights he looks shakey. I'm anxious for Fistric to be back (tomorrow?), and look forward to Peckham returning to form.

I think this team has a decent maybe 17-ish guys.. they could stand to have some upgrades, but the main group is good.. it all falls apart when one or two guys get hurt though because we really have crap all for depth in most roles/positions

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#7 Phixieus666
March 11 2013, 11:51AM
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Well that game last night was a cluster f*ck. But they did win and I saw things I liked.

Nuge and Harti, liked they way these guys work together.

Gagner and MPS, I think thats enough said those two are looking really good playing together and MPS is looking like he did in his rookie season.

Whitney and J. Schultz, really liked this pairing and I hope Kruger carries all these pairing for at least another 3-5 games. need to spend time together to get the chemistry going.

And Mike Brown, this guy is just the perfect 4th liner, he knows is role, and his timing for things like fights has been perfect. Any offense he brings is just icing on the cake.

Still a lot of pieces need to be moved out but you can see how things are starting to fall into place.

Would it be possible to keep Gagner and use him on a third scoring line with MPS and lander????

Hall-Nuge-Harti

Yak-Acquired Center(Dubinsky/Bozak)- Eberle

MPS - Lander/Gagner - Lander/Gagner

Brown - Horcoff(on reasonable contract) - Petrell

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#8 OilClog
March 11 2013, 11:55AM
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It's pretty obvious all these young guys are fans of Horcoff, he wouldn't of remained captain if they weren't. As difficult as it's been for the last 12 years being a Oilers fan, Horcoff has been through it all with us.

At this point it's no more "f@CK!N$ Horcoff!" it's "COME ON HORC!" it's weird almost alienish.. He deserves it though, he bleeds blue and copper just as much if not more than Smyth.. I'm almost going to say more. Watching the broken knuckle captain go after Shaw last night, made everything easier to accept. He isn't one of the players that needs a new team.

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#9 T__Bone88
March 11 2013, 11:56AM
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I wonder if people will calm down about salary next year when his actual salary is only $4 mill then $3 mill in the last. Sure his contract looks bad but when it was signed he was actually playing as a 1st/2nd line centre in his prime getting 50 or more points. If the oilers are not in a cap limit situation he should definitely stay, however if they can find a similar caliber player at a lower cap hit maybe go with that player. Horcoff is still valuable to this team.

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#10 Phixieus666
March 11 2013, 12:00PM
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Racki wrote:

Always enjoy your articles Jason.

I immediately approve of and love any post that speaks highly of Horcoff. Tired of the abuse he takes from fans. But I do think that the loudest people are always the negative people (just noticed the poll.. I'd say that emphasizes my point). I know there are lots of people that like and support Horcoff. But he does take more abuse than anyone. I don't really care how much money he makes. Yes, by NHL standards it is far from a value contract, but as you noted, it isn't standing in our way of signing anyone else.

I thought he had a really good start to the game. Towards the end, it looked like he showed some fatigue and he was doing too much by carrying the puck up ice and trying to beat guys 1 on 1 rather than making safer plays. It cost him vs. Hossa (although we ended up with a PP there) and also nearly cost him another time. But overall, it was great having him back.

I also am completely infatuated with Mike Brown. I liked the trade from the start, but Leafs fans were right.. after a few games, people will love him.

Lastly, Ryan Whitney has been playing his best hockey lately in recent times. He is helping showcase his trade.. it's necessary. As for Corey Potter, it's good that he's on a value contract, cause I think a lot of nights he looks shakey. I'm anxious for Fistric to be back (tomorrow?), and look forward to Peckham returning to form.

I think this team has a decent maybe 17-ish guys.. they could stand to have some upgrades, but the main group is good.. it all falls apart when one or two guys get hurt though because we really have crap all for depth in most roles/positions

Just want to throw this out there. But if Whitney continues to play good and seems to be back into form from before injuries do you really need to trade him? What if he is willing to sign for say 3.5mill a season cap hit for 3-4 years? If Whitney is playing good I would rather have Whitney at 3.5-4.0 than having to pay Smid that much when he can't move the puck.

Not saying I don't like Smid I just don't think he is a top4 and worth that much.

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#11 OilClog
March 11 2013, 12:04PM
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@Phixieus666

.. Dubinsky or Bozak as 2C over Gags??? Ummm

Horcoff on a value contract??? How? And why is Petrell on the team still?

Is that you Steve?

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#12 Phixieus666
March 11 2013, 12:05PM
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@T__Bone88

Its not the actual dollar value that matters to anyone its the cap hit of 5.5 for another 2 seasons.

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#13 Walter Sobchak
March 11 2013, 12:08PM
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I like Horcoff for what he brings, but the Oilers will need to start looking at replacing these players via draft or trade.

The kids need to make their own identity as painful as maybe to watch, they have to become the force that drives the machine going forward.

Horcoff salary may actually become an issue, so the money he makes does matter unfortunately.

So, you can choose a player whether its Gagner or Horcoff, even one of the 5 kids having an inflated contract will matter soon.

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#14 Racki
March 11 2013, 12:09PM
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Phixieus666 wrote:

Just want to throw this out there. But if Whitney continues to play good and seems to be back into form from before injuries do you really need to trade him? What if he is willing to sign for say 3.5mill a season cap hit for 3-4 years? If Whitney is playing good I would rather have Whitney at 3.5-4.0 than having to pay Smid that much when he can't move the puck.

Not saying I don't like Smid I just don't think he is a top4 and worth that much.

I think there is always two ways to think about it... either you think of it as "this guy has higher value in a trade than he has in a while".. or "this guy has higher value to this team than he has in a while".

I'm not sure that Whitney's good play will last, so I'd personally choose the latter. I think Whitney is a good "locker room" guy though and good personality, so I wouldn't be upset if he was kept on. But I don't see Ryan Whitney ahead of Smid at all. Smid plays the heavy and hard minutes. For all the times you might think Smid gets beat in those situations, I'm pretty sure Whitney or Potter or someone like that would get murdered.

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#15 Phixieus666
March 11 2013, 12:13PM
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OilClog wrote:

.. Dubinsky or Bozak as 2C over Gags??? Ummm

Horcoff on a value contract??? How? And why is Petrell on the team still?

Is that you Steve?

I only have Gags on the third because i think there needs to be a center with size that can win 50%+ of the faceoffs on the second do to the Nuge. I just don't want to trade Gags

Horcoff can be replaced but would need to be a really gritty guy, maybe a Brown but bigger.

Petrell is good because I don't think he will ever get more than a million in a contract and he can kill penalties if a prospect comes up thats better he is the perfect type of player to sit in the press box

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#16 T__Bone88
March 11 2013, 12:13PM
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@Phixieus666

Yes the 5.5 mill for 2 more years is not ideal but it was the fact he was paid more than 6 million a year for what he did I think had more people complaining. However his contract is somewhat beneficial now in trade value to lower spending teams like NYI and FLA in that his cap hit is higher than salary.

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#17 andrewmk20
March 11 2013, 12:13PM
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@The Soup Fascist

I've been wondering about the possibility of them moving Horcoff at the deadline. I know that the tradecenter guys said Chicago is looking at a third line center and Horcoff fits the bill. Then Chicago could use their compliance buy out on him and from there the Oilers could talk to him to see if he's willing to come back. Given that Chicago has only 2 possibilities for a buyout (olesz and montador) I wonder if the Oilers could get Montador back in the deal and get an immediate upgrade for the third unit right-handed dman to replace Potter.

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#18 Klima's Mullet
March 11 2013, 12:15PM
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Jason, I cannot agree more with your assessment of the Kings jerseys on HNIC....too awesome! About the captain...the most interesting thing about him is how different the powerplay looks with him in there...him and Nuge have some sort of clairvoyance.

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#19 OilClog
March 11 2013, 12:18PM
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Phixieus666 wrote:

I only have Gags on the third because i think there needs to be a center with size that can win 50%+ of the faceoffs on the second do to the Nuge. I just don't want to trade Gags

Horcoff can be replaced but would need to be a really gritty guy, maybe a Brown but bigger.

Petrell is good because I don't think he will ever get more than a million in a contract and he can kill penalties if a prospect comes up thats better he is the perfect type of player to sit in the press box

Petrell can't kill anything other then his own teams chance of winning, the guy is a dead zone. At least 6 times in the 3rd last night, he failed to clear the puck from his own zone.. horrible.

I don't think Dubinsky or Bozak are upgrades on Sam other then height.

If the Oiler were really smart, they would find a legit #1 center that pushes Nuge down to the #2 spot for the next few seasons. Allowing him to grow and fill out eating 2nd tier competition.

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#20 Quicksilver ballet
March 11 2013, 12:22PM
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Wonder where Horcoff was 10 days ago when this group could've used this airing of the grievances meeting.

Management probably instructed him to wait until it was too late.

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#21 nuge2nail
March 11 2013, 12:25PM
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Oiler Domination To Follow

The problem with the oilers is the Defence. They cant find the forwards in transition and more often than not turn the puck over. Smid and N Shultz are solid 5/6 options on a good team, and are over whelmed playing 1/2 roles. Smid is going to ask for top 4 money, while hes only good enough to play 5/6.

DEADLINE TRADES: Hemsky for a late first rounder + prospect. Smid for a late first rounder. Jones for a second rounder. Whitney for a third rounder. Belanger for a third rounder. Khabibulan for a sixth rounder.

The Vets are useless.

Than TRADE all Three First Rounders, all Three Second Rounders, both Third Rounders and Paajarvi, Omark, etc for Shea Weber-if preds dont make the playoffs.

Teams will be looking to dump salary with the cap going down and good players will become available. The picks will help us shop at the draft. The cap space will allow us to trade for or sign the missing peices. Which is obviously size.

Maybe 8 draft picks fo one player is an overpayment, maybe we need to add some NHL players to make the trade work, either way if a player like Weber becomes available - unload the truck into Nashville and make it happen.

This team needs an overhaul, we need another defenceman who can play 26+ minutes that isnt a rookie. Than we need to add a couple players like Ott, Glencross and Simmonds and maybe we wont be so easy to play against.

Weber, J Shultz, Petry, N Shultz, Fistric, Klefbom....

One can only dream....

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#22 Walter Sobchak
March 11 2013, 12:33PM
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andrewmk20 wrote:

I've been wondering about the possibility of them moving Horcoff at the deadline. I know that the tradecenter guys said Chicago is looking at a third line center and Horcoff fits the bill. Then Chicago could use their compliance buy out on him and from there the Oilers could talk to him to see if he's willing to come back. Given that Chicago has only 2 possibilities for a buyout (olesz and montador) I wonder if the Oilers could get Montador back in the deal and get an immediate upgrade for the third unit right-handed dman to replace Potter.

I really like this idea too, I thought about it earlier during the lockout when the thought of an amnesty clause was being thrown around.

I don’t know if the NHL will approve of this but it maybe one of the first loop holes.

I like the idea.

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#23 Lochenzo
March 11 2013, 12:37PM
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Definitely having second thoughts about a Horcoff buyout. The record with Horc out of the lineup is atrocious. He's the captain and he's willing to do the spade work out there. It might set this team back to part ways with Horc this summer, at a time when the team should be stepping forward.

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#24 Walter Sobchak
March 11 2013, 12:40PM
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@nuge2nail

I am all aboard getting Weber, but no way in hell do you sacrifice this years first rounder, not a bloody chance.

You need to fill 3 center postions.

Gagner - Horcoff and Belanger you need this pick in the worst way.

I would offer, Petry-Gagner-Hartikinen or Paajarvi and next years 1st plus second and that should get you Weber.

Hemsky for a first round pick this year will get you Horcoffs replacement in Bo-Horvat

Keep Smid.

Your centers could look like this

RNH - Barkov - Horcoff - Horvat

Not to bad.

D looks like this.

Weber - Schulttz - Smid - Schultz sr - Klefbom - Fistric

much better defence.

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#25 Spydyr
March 11 2013, 12:45PM
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nuge2nail wrote:

Oiler Domination To Follow

The problem with the oilers is the Defence. They cant find the forwards in transition and more often than not turn the puck over. Smid and N Shultz are solid 5/6 options on a good team, and are over whelmed playing 1/2 roles. Smid is going to ask for top 4 money, while hes only good enough to play 5/6.

DEADLINE TRADES: Hemsky for a late first rounder + prospect. Smid for a late first rounder. Jones for a second rounder. Whitney for a third rounder. Belanger for a third rounder. Khabibulan for a sixth rounder.

The Vets are useless.

Than TRADE all Three First Rounders, all Three Second Rounders, both Third Rounders and Paajarvi, Omark, etc for Shea Weber-if preds dont make the playoffs.

Teams will be looking to dump salary with the cap going down and good players will become available. The picks will help us shop at the draft. The cap space will allow us to trade for or sign the missing peices. Which is obviously size.

Maybe 8 draft picks fo one player is an overpayment, maybe we need to add some NHL players to make the trade work, either way if a player like Weber becomes available - unload the truck into Nashville and make it happen.

This team needs an overhaul, we need another defenceman who can play 26+ minutes that isnt a rookie. Than we need to add a couple players like Ott, Glencross and Simmonds and maybe we wont be so easy to play against.

Weber, J Shultz, Petry, N Shultz, Fistric, Klefbom....

One can only dream....

@nuge2nail

"Than TRADE all Three First Rounders, all Three Second Rounders, both Third Rounders and Paajarvi, Omark, etc for Shea Weber-if preds dont make the playoffs."

You are drunk.Time to go to bed.

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#26 Mumbai Max
March 11 2013, 12:57PM
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I am all over the Weber plan. Pay WHATEVER it takes and get him. Instant contender. Remember what Pronger did for us? Same result. Sign Smid, then package him, Eberle, and a pick and/or prospect. That should do it. A stud D is the key missing component to contend in the next couple years. They are few and far between. Nashville will want to move him for sure. Lets hold our nose and do it.

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#27 Spurzey
March 11 2013, 12:58PM
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nuge2nail wrote:

Oiler Domination To Follow

The problem with the oilers is the Defence. They cant find the forwards in transition and more often than not turn the puck over. Smid and N Shultz are solid 5/6 options on a good team, and are over whelmed playing 1/2 roles. Smid is going to ask for top 4 money, while hes only good enough to play 5/6.

DEADLINE TRADES: Hemsky for a late first rounder + prospect. Smid for a late first rounder. Jones for a second rounder. Whitney for a third rounder. Belanger for a third rounder. Khabibulan for a sixth rounder.

The Vets are useless.

Than TRADE all Three First Rounders, all Three Second Rounders, both Third Rounders and Paajarvi, Omark, etc for Shea Weber-if preds dont make the playoffs.

Teams will be looking to dump salary with the cap going down and good players will become available. The picks will help us shop at the draft. The cap space will allow us to trade for or sign the missing peices. Which is obviously size.

Maybe 8 draft picks fo one player is an overpayment, maybe we need to add some NHL players to make the trade work, either way if a player like Weber becomes available - unload the truck into Nashville and make it happen.

This team needs an overhaul, we need another defenceman who can play 26+ minutes that isnt a rookie. Than we need to add a couple players like Ott, Glencross and Simmonds and maybe we wont be so easy to play against.

Weber, J Shultz, Petry, N Shultz, Fistric, Klefbom....

One can only dream....

Please Mr Stumbelinni, pull this one off as soon as possible so that you will be fired the very same day.

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#28 Quicksilver ballet
March 11 2013, 12:58PM
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@Spydyr

You must've taken Tambellinis inspirational "Winning at Losing" seminar last summer eh? Sooner or later management will punch that accelerator. Could happen this summer, with a move very similar to this.

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#29 zenoil
March 11 2013, 01:04PM
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He played one good game. Wow!! Look at his plus minus (all minus) the last few years. He is the best third line option by far, but he still is sub par on so many levels. Barf.

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#30 Hammers
March 11 2013, 01:10PM
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Great article and ALL players should be rated with what they bring not what they earn . This includes guys you need to let go. ie, Belanger, Eager & Pettrell to name 3 If a GM gives good or BAD contracts that's the GM's fault not the player or his agent .I still feel the team needs a heart transplant or at least a talent transplant .ps size comes in time so just look at Gags . Nothing to do with talent but a lot with maturity.

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#31 nuge2nail
March 11 2013, 01:20PM
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Oiler Domination To Follow

@spydyr @spurzey

You do realize that the first rounders im proposing are picks we dont have yet?

Essentially we would be trading this years first, Hemsky(we have Yakupov and Ebs as RWS), Jones, Whitney and Smid, plus two seconds for WEBER. Weber being the best defensemen for team Canadas gold medal team, and yearly Norris Candidate.

You would rather keep the players listed above rather than bring in Weber, or keep the picks and wait 3/4 years before they make the NHL, and another 2/3 years for them to learn the NHL game?

You would have to be a wizard to keep the core 7:Hall, Hopkins, Eberle, Shultz,Yakupov, Gagner and Petry and pull of a trade for a Norris Dmen, but it seems possible.

The reason you stockpile draft picks and prospects in year 4 of a rebuild is to bring in immediate help at the draft, not draft and wait 4 years of more rebuilding. How many first rounder 25-28 become impact NHL players, and how many second rounders become game changers? You can easily find similar talent in free agency.

If we keep the players above, we are not getting better. If we keep the picks, consider this the third rebuild in 6 years(3 firsts in 07) and if we trade the picks and fill in some holes, well than maybe just maybe our talent will be lucky enough to feel the electricity in the city and building come playoff time.

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#32 Spydyr
March 11 2013, 01:21PM
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Quicksilver ballet wrote:

You must've taken Tambellinis inspirational "Winning at Losing" seminar last summer eh? Sooner or later management will punch that accelerator. Could happen this summer, with a move very similar to this.

No,i'm against a massive overpay that will gut the team moving forward for a contract that will ruin the whole salary structure on the team.

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#33 A-Mc
March 11 2013, 01:27PM
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Phixieus666 wrote:

Just want to throw this out there. But if Whitney continues to play good and seems to be back into form from before injuries do you really need to trade him? What if he is willing to sign for say 3.5mill a season cap hit for 3-4 years? If Whitney is playing good I would rather have Whitney at 3.5-4.0 than having to pay Smid that much when he can't move the puck.

Not saying I don't like Smid I just don't think he is a top4 and worth that much.

I don't think he can salvage his trade value in 23 games to warrant a re-sign at 3.5-4M/yr. But! This plays well for the Oiler's because if they did think of re-signing him with the belief that he will get better, they could probably push for a 2yr 2M/yr deal.

Lets face it, right now he is a 5/6 guy. You don't pay 5/6 guys 3M+.

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#34 Spydyr
March 11 2013, 01:27PM
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@nuge2nail

@ nuge2nail

I'm confused first you said trade away all our first three rounds of picks for three years moving forward:

"Than TRADE all Three First Rounders, all Three Second Rounders, both Third Rounders and Paajarvi, Omark, etc for Shea Weber-if preds dont make the playoffs."

Now your saying :

"Essentially we would be trading this years first, Hemsky(we have Yakupov and Ebs as RWS), Jones, Whitney and Smid, plus two seconds for WEBER"

Am I missing something here ?

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#35 Team Hall
March 11 2013, 01:28PM
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I agree 100% that those purple LA Kings jerseys are the best. They should bring those back full time, no more mid90's black and silver. yuck.

Retro unis across the league. Boy I miss the north stars and whalers jerseys the most. Beautiful. Works of art.

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#36 Team Seguin
March 11 2013, 01:30PM
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In fact, maybe the hurricanes could wear the old Whalers jersey on retro night, and Dallas could bring back the old north star jersey.

No california seals or rockies jerseys, those were awful from the getgo.

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#37 DevoKnows
March 11 2013, 01:31PM
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Once again, another article that tries to make Horcoff out to be some Great leader or value to the team. Absolute hilarious!!! A great leader would have had the meeting before the road trip, it was a "do or die" road trip. Not when the teams about to rebound from a season all time low! With the Oilers already hitting rock bottom on this road trip, and the Hawks on a low after there great run, this was inevitable. Chicago media was already predicting a flat performance, as no team can keep that pace up all season. In the first 10 minutes, everything and anything the Oilers did, came up "Roses". Oilers are still very competitive team, you can't keep them down forever! This had nothing to do with Horcoffs "so called leadership meeting" What he did do, was add a little spark to the team, well so did Smytty after sitting a couple games. Coincidently, you felt you had to do an article on Smytty after he sat too. That's great, but that's all it is, a small spark Anyways, I guess you realized I'm not a big Horcoff fan, I just tolerate him like 85% of the rest of fans. I feel with his contract, it's helped influence the Oilers into making bad decisions in the past, Without the big long contract, would we still have Cogliano? Would we have drafted a big offensive center man in the last two years? Still not even positive Horc was the right choice for the C, part of me thinks they did it to help justify the stupidity of contract! Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in, Now Let's Kick Some Col Ass!!!

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#38 nuge2nail
March 11 2013, 01:39PM
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@Spydyr

Oiler Domination To Follow

The Three First Rounders im talking about would all be in the 2013 draft. All the picks im talking about would be in the 2013 draft.

The picks would be from trading Hemsky, Jones, Smid, Whitney, and than the first and two seconds we currently own.

Essentially trading spare parts into picks, and packaging picks and prospects to bring in salary from a team looking to dump it because of owner restraints.

Nashville missing the playoffs would open the door for the Oilers - a once in a lifetime opportunity you might say.

Remember what Pronger did for the back end, the stability he created. Weber would have the same effect, and allow the rest of the D to play against soft competition. Also his shot from the point, and J Shult wrister would be deadly on the PP.

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#39 Quicksilver ballet
March 11 2013, 01:43PM
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@Spydyr

I see where you're coming from. Salary structure and winning are not always compatable. The league has turned into a whole lotta one and dones.

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#40 A-Mc
March 11 2013, 01:43PM
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@nuge2nail

I gotta say that i think you're completely out to lunch with the Trade for Weber scenario.

First, i think you're drastically overpaying.
Second, i think you're drastically over-valuing weber
Third, You're taking 4 roster players and getting 1 in return. You've now created 3 holes.
Fourth, You have Smyth/Belanger/Horc who could exit the league any year now and you've got no replacements for them in the works and no picks to work with to 'grow' them. READ: more holes.

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#41 Quicksilver ballet
March 11 2013, 01:50PM
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@A-Mc

It much easier to fill those 8-12 min a night holes than it is a 25 min+ a night hole. Lets face it, would the loss of 10,94 and 20 be insurmountable?

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#42 Spydyr
March 11 2013, 01:53PM
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nuge2nail wrote:

Oiler Domination To Follow

The Three First Rounders im talking about would all be in the 2013 draft. All the picks im talking about would be in the 2013 draft.

The picks would be from trading Hemsky, Jones, Smid, Whitney, and than the first and two seconds we currently own.

Essentially trading spare parts into picks, and packaging picks and prospects to bring in salary from a team looking to dump it because of owner restraints.

Nashville missing the playoffs would open the door for the Oilers - a once in a lifetime opportunity you might say.

Remember what Pronger did for the back end, the stability he created. Weber would have the same effect, and allow the rest of the D to play against soft competition. Also his shot from the point, and J Shult wrister would be deadly on the PP.

"The Three First Rounders im talking about would all be in the 2013 draft."

The Oilers do not have three first rounders in the 2013 draft.

I wish they did.

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#43 A-Mc
March 11 2013, 01:57PM
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Quicksilver ballet wrote:

It much easier to fill those 8-12 min a night holes than it is a 25 min+ a night hole. Lets face it, would the loss of 10,94 and 20 be insurmountable?

Even with Weber, you'd still need to find another Smid. This team needs a "Weber" in ADDITION to the current top 4, Not 'instead of'.

Also, the top 6 still desperately needs 1-2 guys, but now you've got no pieces to use for trades. No roster guys you're willing to move, and no picks.

So basically you're selling everything you have to fill 1 position, but in the process you're creating 3 holes, STILL have 2 more 'needs' to address but not a single player or pick to use to fill them.

Its still a robbing peter to pay paul scenario, and i think it hamstrings the team too severely.

Lets not forget about the cap as well. You're now going to have Hall (6M), Ebs (6M), Weber (7.8M), Nuge (5-6M), Yak (5M), 2C (3-5M), for a total of 33.8-36.8M (More than half) on 2 lines and 1 D. There are 17 other players to sign

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#44 nuge2nail
March 11 2013, 01:59PM
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@Spydyr

Oiler Domination To Follow

DEADLINE TRADES: Hemsky for a late first rounder + prospect. Smid for a late first rounder. Jones for a second rounder. Whitney for a third rounder. Belanger for a third rounder. Khabibulan for a sixth rounder.

Learn to read before you criticize.

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#45 geoilersgist
March 11 2013, 02:06PM
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@nuge2nail

I like your idea of getting Weber but its a pipe dream and this isn't NHL13

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#46 Smokey
March 11 2013, 02:07PM
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I wish the pundits would stop spewing the propaganda after an Oiler's win. Anyone could of predicted a flat Chicago team and the a desperate Oiler's team. Horcoff is overpaid, overplayed, and needs to be bought out at the end of this season.

One game where the Oiler's beat a team won't change the fact that one of biggest problems are players with declining skills suck. Smitty, Belanger, Horcoff, Hemsky, Whitney are eating up cap space. (Good teams find returns for these players) I laugh at the propaganda that comes out in the media about this big life altering meeting where Horcoff channels the spirit of Russell, and Jordan, and Messier to lead the lost and flawed baby Oiler's. I'll eat crow when they string games, not a game together. Horcoff is a great leader like Archie Manning was for the NO Saints in the eighties. The argument don't wash when you loose all the time.

Lets get rid of the vets who don't produce or perform and move on in this rebuild. Let's stop living with mediocrity and making outlandish comments like the Oilers need Horcoff. I don't doubt his presence was felt yesterday, but any team as thin up the gut like the Oiler's would benefit significantly from a veteran player returning.

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#47 nuge2nail
March 11 2013, 02:09PM
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@A-Mc

Oiler Domination To Follow

Hemskys "hole" in the top six is filled with Yaks.

Jones "hole" in the bottom six is filled with Hartkainen or Paajarvi.

Smids going to ask for too much money for a guy who cant move the puck and should be playing a 5/6 role. This "hole" can be filled with Klefbom or Fistric. Pick up a dman who blocks shots and is tough in the corners.

Whitneys "hole" well he shouldnt be signed anyways, so no loss there.

Obviously im drastically over valuing Weber, hes arguably the best defencemen in the game. Hes a stud and a franchise player. To get him without giving up any of the core 7: Hall, Hopkins, Eberle, J Shultz, Gagner, Yakupov and Petry would be incredible. Im suggesting 8 picks for one player, if we can get him for less great. Im not the GM so this is not a real offer we have to analyze. Just consider the idea of trading picks for a top 4 NHL DMAN at the draft thats all.

Do you really want to spend the summer again visiting this site and talking about how we need another 1 or 2 top 4 dman, how we need size and grit in our bottom 6 and possibly better goaltending.

Its like waking up in groundhog day hockey hell.

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#48 nuge2nail
March 11 2013, 02:15PM
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@geoilersgist

Oiler Domination To Follow

It is a pipe dream because we cant get the picks for hemsky, jones and smid?

Or a pipe dream because Nashville will never trade Weber?

Or Is it a pipedream because management is so delusional they are afraid to trade away a bag of pucks because theres a chance they might be magical?

Im betting on the last.

Interestingly enough, some say its a massive overpayment, and some say its not nearly enough... "this isnt NHL13"... im thinking somewhere in there is a deal to be made, especially if we acquire enough picks and the Preds dont make the playoffs. This is a team that heavily relies on profit sharing and without the playoffs, well they might have to trade away Weber.

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#49 Spydyr
March 11 2013, 02:19PM
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nuge2nail wrote:

Oiler Domination To Follow

DEADLINE TRADES: Hemsky for a late first rounder + prospect. Smid for a late first rounder. Jones for a second rounder. Whitney for a third rounder. Belanger for a third rounder. Khabibulan for a sixth rounder.

Learn to read before you criticize.

Maybe on your playstation.

No more white whales.

No more inflated salaries .

No Weber , just give up that dream. He does not fit into the salary structure of the team.

Are you going to pay the kids his salary too in a few years?

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#50 Quicksilver ballet
March 11 2013, 02:19PM
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@A-Mc

Even with what you mentioned in your last paragraph. It's okay to allocate the lions share of your budget on you top 10 (Top 7 forwards,top 3 D along with a goaltender) They play 75% of your minutes anyways. The rest you can buy at Walmart in the summer with free agents playing out the string, or up and comers. Your top 10 are your bread and butter. Todays contenders are in no way strong from top to bottom. Even the Kings won with 6+ AHL'ers on their roster at times earlier last year.

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