O Captain, My Captain

Jason Strudwick
March 11 2013 11:15AM

Shawn Horcoff has been a lightning rod for fans frustrations for the last few years. With the big contract he received from the Oilers has come a lot of abuse. In my opinion, it’s unfair.

Yes, his salary is higher than you would like, but has that salary had an impact on the Oilers salary cap? Have they been unable to re-sign other players due to salary cap issues? It wasn't like they were trying to sign big free agents and his deal got in the way. His contract has been an easy target. Defending his deal is not the purpose of this though.

Shawn Horcoff returned to the lineup in Chicago. The impact of his presence in the lineup was immediate. The balance in the lines jumped off the page! With him out of the lineup the third line has been a mess. Coach Krueger has tried many combos and none have had much success or chemistry.

One example of this was the Yakupov, Belanger and Jones line. This line got nothing accomplished. It is not that I don't think each player has some value, but they are each so different as players that chemistry never was going to develop.

Against Chicago, Horcoff was played between Hemsky and Hall. I liked the way this line looked. In his rookie season Hall had success playing with Horcoff. Hemsky has played with the captain many times in his career. All three are familiar with each other and bring a unique set of skills to the line. Hall is the passion and attack. Hemsky is the sexy and slick weapon. Horcoff brings tremendous hustle, will and defensive awareness that every line requires.

It was very interesting for me to see the line Krueger put out at the end of the game against Chicago to protect the one goal lead. It was Horcoff's line. Having Horcoff out there is a no-brainer, he is your strongest and best defensive center. Hemsky is a veteran that has done the job in the past. But Hall is the surprise.

This kind of ice time for Hall indicates to me how much confidence the coach has in Hall to make the smart plays with the puck. Hall still has a ways to go in my mind to fully understand how to protect the lead at the end of the game, but obviously Krueger sees the potential there.

Reports out of Chicago mention a meeting that Horcoff organized for the team Saturday night in the hotel. It is not unusual at all for the captain to call this type of meeting.

Horcoff would have started the meeting. I bet he discussed the way the team has been playing and what has been missing from the group. I am guessing he challenged each players' pride to raise their game up and to compete.

In these types of meetings anyone can speak after the captain. Usually it starts with the veterans and other captains. Not everyone likes to speak, but those who do speak very honestly. I have been in meetings were two guys got into a "F... You!" contest.

Meetings allow players to vent and usually clears the air in a dressing room. When a team is winning everyone is buddy-buddy. When a losing streak strikes players tend to go off into little groups and bitch about other players and their personal lack of ice time. If it continues unchecked it can really do damage in a room. Bitchy, whiny clicks are a telltale sign of a group of losers.

Don't get me wrong, this meeting isn't going to send the Oilers on a twenty-four game win streak. It is good, however, for the younger players that will be the only leaders at some point to see how to respond when the team is on the express of a losing streak.

Finally....

The pairing of Potter and Whitney has not worked this year. They just don't complement each other. I can't quite put my finger on it,but they just seem to be more often than not working against one another rather than in unison. They shouldn't be playing together and were finally split.

I see improvement in Ryan Whitney's game. He has been producing points. In his mind he isn't contributing if he isn't getting points. His confidence should be on the mend and on the rise. This would be huge for the Oilers. The rest of his game should fill out if that happens.

I like what Krueger did in Chicago by splitting up Potter and Whitney and pairing them each with a Schultz. Justin S. played with Whitney, N. Schultz ended up with Potter. I thought Potter looked more relaxed with Nick. Sometimes playing with a guy like Whitney can throw a guy off. Whitney has been struggling and his body language has shown that. A guy like Potter can misinterpret that as being directed at him. He isn't sure enough of himself in the NHL to realize he is just got his own issues on the ice and that Whitney's frustration has nothing to do with him.

Overall I thought the pairings were better lat night than they had been in the last week, however, the bar wasn't set super high during that time. If Dubnyk is out for any amount of time, they will have to play their best defensive hockey of the year.

One Last Thing....

Did anyone else see those great retro uniforms the Kings were wearing on Saturday. I love those!

5cf6b487166aced0cd781e41bfef915e
Jason hosts the Jason Strudwick show from 9pm to 12am, weeknights on the team 1260. He is an instructor at Mount Carmel Hockey Academy and loves working with the kids. Having played over 650 games in the NHL, Jason has some great stories and unique takes on life in the NHL. He loves Slurpees and Blizzards. Dislikes baggy clothes and close talkers.
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#51 Quicksilver ballet
March 11 2013, 01:43PM
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@Spydyr

I see where you're coming from. Salary structure and winning are not always compatable. The league has turned into a whole lotta one and dones.

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#52 Quicksilver ballet
March 11 2013, 01:50PM
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@A-Mc

It much easier to fill those 8-12 min a night holes than it is a 25 min+ a night hole. Lets face it, would the loss of 10,94 and 20 be insurmountable?

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#53 Spydyr
March 11 2013, 01:53PM
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nuge2nail wrote:

Oiler Domination To Follow

The Three First Rounders im talking about would all be in the 2013 draft. All the picks im talking about would be in the 2013 draft.

The picks would be from trading Hemsky, Jones, Smid, Whitney, and than the first and two seconds we currently own.

Essentially trading spare parts into picks, and packaging picks and prospects to bring in salary from a team looking to dump it because of owner restraints.

Nashville missing the playoffs would open the door for the Oilers - a once in a lifetime opportunity you might say.

Remember what Pronger did for the back end, the stability he created. Weber would have the same effect, and allow the rest of the D to play against soft competition. Also his shot from the point, and J Shult wrister would be deadly on the PP.

"The Three First Rounders im talking about would all be in the 2013 draft."

The Oilers do not have three first rounders in the 2013 draft.

I wish they did.

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#54 A-Mc
March 11 2013, 01:57PM
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Quicksilver ballet wrote:

It much easier to fill those 8-12 min a night holes than it is a 25 min+ a night hole. Lets face it, would the loss of 10,94 and 20 be insurmountable?

Even with Weber, you'd still need to find another Smid. This team needs a "Weber" in ADDITION to the current top 4, Not 'instead of'.

Also, the top 6 still desperately needs 1-2 guys, but now you've got no pieces to use for trades. No roster guys you're willing to move, and no picks.

So basically you're selling everything you have to fill 1 position, but in the process you're creating 3 holes, STILL have 2 more 'needs' to address but not a single player or pick to use to fill them.

Its still a robbing peter to pay paul scenario, and i think it hamstrings the team too severely.

Lets not forget about the cap as well. You're now going to have Hall (6M), Ebs (6M), Weber (7.8M), Nuge (5-6M), Yak (5M), 2C (3-5M), for a total of 33.8-36.8M (More than half) on 2 lines and 1 D. There are 17 other players to sign

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#55 nuge2nail
March 11 2013, 01:59PM
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@Spydyr

Oiler Domination To Follow

DEADLINE TRADES: Hemsky for a late first rounder + prospect. Smid for a late first rounder. Jones for a second rounder. Whitney for a third rounder. Belanger for a third rounder. Khabibulan for a sixth rounder.

Learn to read before you criticize.

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#56 Smokey
March 11 2013, 02:07PM
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I wish the pundits would stop spewing the propaganda after an Oiler's win. Anyone could of predicted a flat Chicago team and the a desperate Oiler's team. Horcoff is overpaid, overplayed, and needs to be bought out at the end of this season.

One game where the Oiler's beat a team won't change the fact that one of biggest problems are players with declining skills suck. Smitty, Belanger, Horcoff, Hemsky, Whitney are eating up cap space. (Good teams find returns for these players) I laugh at the propaganda that comes out in the media about this big life altering meeting where Horcoff channels the spirit of Russell, and Jordan, and Messier to lead the lost and flawed baby Oiler's. I'll eat crow when they string games, not a game together. Horcoff is a great leader like Archie Manning was for the NO Saints in the eighties. The argument don't wash when you loose all the time.

Lets get rid of the vets who don't produce or perform and move on in this rebuild. Let's stop living with mediocrity and making outlandish comments like the Oilers need Horcoff. I don't doubt his presence was felt yesterday, but any team as thin up the gut like the Oiler's would benefit significantly from a veteran player returning.

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#57 nuge2nail
March 11 2013, 02:09PM
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@A-Mc

Oiler Domination To Follow

Hemskys "hole" in the top six is filled with Yaks.

Jones "hole" in the bottom six is filled with Hartkainen or Paajarvi.

Smids going to ask for too much money for a guy who cant move the puck and should be playing a 5/6 role. This "hole" can be filled with Klefbom or Fistric. Pick up a dman who blocks shots and is tough in the corners.

Whitneys "hole" well he shouldnt be signed anyways, so no loss there.

Obviously im drastically over valuing Weber, hes arguably the best defencemen in the game. Hes a stud and a franchise player. To get him without giving up any of the core 7: Hall, Hopkins, Eberle, J Shultz, Gagner, Yakupov and Petry would be incredible. Im suggesting 8 picks for one player, if we can get him for less great. Im not the GM so this is not a real offer we have to analyze. Just consider the idea of trading picks for a top 4 NHL DMAN at the draft thats all.

Do you really want to spend the summer again visiting this site and talking about how we need another 1 or 2 top 4 dman, how we need size and grit in our bottom 6 and possibly better goaltending.

Its like waking up in groundhog day hockey hell.

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#58 nuge2nail
March 11 2013, 02:15PM
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@geoilersgist

Oiler Domination To Follow

It is a pipe dream because we cant get the picks for hemsky, jones and smid?

Or a pipe dream because Nashville will never trade Weber?

Or Is it a pipedream because management is so delusional they are afraid to trade away a bag of pucks because theres a chance they might be magical?

Im betting on the last.

Interestingly enough, some say its a massive overpayment, and some say its not nearly enough... "this isnt NHL13"... im thinking somewhere in there is a deal to be made, especially if we acquire enough picks and the Preds dont make the playoffs. This is a team that heavily relies on profit sharing and without the playoffs, well they might have to trade away Weber.

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#59 Spydyr
March 11 2013, 02:19PM
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nuge2nail wrote:

Oiler Domination To Follow

DEADLINE TRADES: Hemsky for a late first rounder + prospect. Smid for a late first rounder. Jones for a second rounder. Whitney for a third rounder. Belanger for a third rounder. Khabibulan for a sixth rounder.

Learn to read before you criticize.

Maybe on your playstation.

No more white whales.

No more inflated salaries .

No Weber , just give up that dream. He does not fit into the salary structure of the team.

Are you going to pay the kids his salary too in a few years?

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#60 Quicksilver ballet
March 11 2013, 02:19PM
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@A-Mc

Even with what you mentioned in your last paragraph. It's okay to allocate the lions share of your budget on you top 10 (Top 7 forwards,top 3 D along with a goaltender) They play 75% of your minutes anyways. The rest you can buy at Walmart in the summer with free agents playing out the string, or up and comers. Your top 10 are your bread and butter. Todays contenders are in no way strong from top to bottom. Even the Kings won with 6+ AHL'ers on their roster at times earlier last year.

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#61 nuge2nail
March 11 2013, 02:24PM
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@A-Mc

Oiler Domination To Follow

"Lets not forget about the cap as well. You're now going to have Hall (6M), Ebs (6M), Weber (7.8M), Nuge (5-6M), Yak (5M), 2C (3-5M), for a total of 33.8-36.8M (More than half) on 2 lines and 1 D. There are 17 other players to sign"

Seems very similar to the Hawks cap as well. Kane(6.3), Toews(6.3), Sharp(6.0), Hossa(5.3), Bolland(3.5), Seabrook(6.0), Keith(5.5) - for a total of 38.9M(more than half) on 2/3 of two lines and 2 D.

Seems to be working for them, money spent on the right players makes for success. Resigning Smid for 4.5 million a year does not help the team. Hemsky for 5, Horcoff for 5.5, Whitney for 4, Khabibulan 3.8 are the type of contracts we can no longer carry. Signing Smid to a long term overpaid deal adds to the misery we are currently in.

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#62 nuge2nail
March 11 2013, 02:30PM
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@Spydyr

Oiler Domination To Follow

Interestingly enough Whitneys, Suttons, and Sourays 2012 cap hit for the Oilers adds up to Webers 2013 cap hit.

Now which defence is better spending its money - the team with Smid(4.5)and Whitney(4.0)

Or the team with Weber and Fistric for the same cap hit.

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#63 A-Mc
March 11 2013, 02:31PM
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nuge2nail wrote:

Oiler Domination To Follow

Hemskys "hole" in the top six is filled with Yaks.

Jones "hole" in the bottom six is filled with Hartkainen or Paajarvi.

Smids going to ask for too much money for a guy who cant move the puck and should be playing a 5/6 role. This "hole" can be filled with Klefbom or Fistric. Pick up a dman who blocks shots and is tough in the corners.

Whitneys "hole" well he shouldnt be signed anyways, so no loss there.

Obviously im drastically over valuing Weber, hes arguably the best defencemen in the game. Hes a stud and a franchise player. To get him without giving up any of the core 7: Hall, Hopkins, Eberle, J Shultz, Gagner, Yakupov and Petry would be incredible. Im suggesting 8 picks for one player, if we can get him for less great. Im not the GM so this is not a real offer we have to analyze. Just consider the idea of trading picks for a top 4 NHL DMAN at the draft thats all.

Do you really want to spend the summer again visiting this site and talking about how we need another 1 or 2 top 4 dman, how we need size and grit in our bottom 6 and possibly better goaltending.

Its like waking up in groundhog day hockey hell.

You're making assumptions that i don't think management can afford to make.

1. Yak hasn't proven he can be on the 2nd line, especially our 2nd line where no one is really Defensively responsible. The only thing this kid has shown he can do, is Shoot. Otherwise he's a guaranteed turnover anywhere else on the ice.

2. Fistric != Smid. Not even close. I sense that you need to experience a month of Smidless hockey to see how much he does for the team.

3. Klefbom != Smid. Klefbom has never played a game in the NHL. Hell he hasn't even played in the AHL yet. Vegas would tell you that you never count on Defenseman success until ATLEAST the age of 24-25. You know they always take longer to develop.

I like that you're willing to go for broke on a guy like Weber, but i think the timing is wrong to be selling all your parts. Management would be taking a very big gamble by placing all their eggs in 1 basket (Weber) and hoping they can fill the rest of the holes on the UFA market or with sub-optimal prospects.

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#64 Will
March 11 2013, 02:34PM
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@andrewmk20

Montador was put on Waivers this morning. Somewhere, there is a good article on why Chicago did that, and why he's actually a bit of a gamble to pick up.

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#65 VK63
March 11 2013, 02:38PM
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Havent watched the highlights of the play but after whitney scored he screamed.

"WTF was that"

anyone know why?

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#66 A-Mc
March 11 2013, 02:40PM
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nuge2nail wrote:

Oiler Domination To Follow

"Lets not forget about the cap as well. You're now going to have Hall (6M), Ebs (6M), Weber (7.8M), Nuge (5-6M), Yak (5M), 2C (3-5M), for a total of 33.8-36.8M (More than half) on 2 lines and 1 D. There are 17 other players to sign"

Seems very similar to the Hawks cap as well. Kane(6.3), Toews(6.3), Sharp(6.0), Hossa(5.3), Bolland(3.5), Seabrook(6.0), Keith(5.5) - for a total of 38.9M(more than half) on 2/3 of two lines and 2 D.

Seems to be working for them, money spent on the right players makes for success. Resigning Smid for 4.5 million a year does not help the team. Hemsky for 5, Horcoff for 5.5, Whitney for 4, Khabibulan 3.8 are the type of contracts we can no longer carry. Signing Smid to a long term overpaid deal adds to the misery we are currently in.

You also forgot to include a couple Defensemen that both eat up over 20 mins a night each but make reasonable money. These guys, if found on the UFA market and/or needed to be traded for, would cost you a small fortune(Hjalmarsson and Oduya).

Going into Next season, Chicago has 4M to sign 5 UFAs and 2 RFA's.

When talking about money, you need to be planning for next season and onward.

Now i agree if Smid is looking for retarded money, then we need to look at a trade. But we dont know what the Smid party is asking for. Also, I agree that Trading Hemsky is a good idea. I just think Hemsky should be used to trade for a guy that would go on the 2nd line. Essentially a hockey trade as a direct replacement to address 2nd line grit.

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#67 A-Mc
March 11 2013, 02:41PM
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nuge2nail wrote:

Oiler Domination To Follow

Interestingly enough Whitneys, Suttons, and Sourays 2012 cap hit for the Oilers adds up to Webers 2013 cap hit.

Now which defence is better spending its money - the team with Smid(4.5)and Whitney(4.0)

Or the team with Weber and Fistric for the same cap hit.

If we're talking the Whitney that warranted the money he was making, i'd say the Smid/Whitney pair is a better choice.

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#68 nuge2nail
March 11 2013, 02:42PM
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@A-Mc

Oiler Domination To Follow

1.I am suprised you are concerned at the hole Hemsky leaves, guy had 36 points last year and was a minus 13. Hes on pace for a minus 12 this year. Im pretty sure Yakupov can match those numbers in his second year. If he cant, well than he will be the biggest bust in NHL history.

2.Smid may not be signed in the offseason anyways. Hes really not that good of a hockey player. He has heart, but no brains. Hes a younger dumber version of Jason Smith.

3. I think Klefbom will be a solid #6 on the team next year, but if hes not #6 dman are a dime a dozen.

4.5.6.7. I think its safe to say that Weber will cover the hole left by Smid.

There is also a small chance Smid would come back and sign in the offseason as well, depending on the amount he is looking for. Im assuming the team that trades for him would sign him to a deal.

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#69 nuge2nail
March 11 2013, 02:49PM
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A-Mc wrote:

If we're talking the Whitney that warranted the money he was making, i'd say the Smid/Whitney pair is a better choice.

Oiler Domination To Follow

We arent talking about Whitney of 3 years ago making 4 million. We are talking about the Whitney of the last two years making 4 million. Either way Weber.Fistric is better than Whitney.Smid - regardless if we could travel back in time and transport the Whitney of old into todays game. Smid in 634 NHL games has put up 60 points and is a minus 44. Im thinking he is a big reason the team cant score 5x5. His point totals suggest he cant make a play.

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#70 A-Mc
March 11 2013, 02:54PM
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@nuge2nail

So you're assuming a team would give you a 1st rounder for a Smid RENTAL!?

Ya, i don't think so.

Ragging on Hemsky and his poor performance last year (worst year ever for him) isn't fair and you're doing it to try to make a point. If Hemsky is such a bum, why would someone trade a 1st and a prospect for him?

You can't say these guys are worth a 1st or more and then turn around and justify the trade by saying they are bums and are easily replaceable.

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#71 geoilersgist
March 11 2013, 03:01PM
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@nuge2nail

It is highly unlikely that Nashville even in money trouble would trade Weber for a bunch of picks. They will want something useful coming back whether or not that is a forward/dman is unknown. Like I said Weber wont be coming here anytime soon. What happens to Nashville if you give them all those picks and they have no chance of playoff hockey now for the next 3 years? They are probably done and packing up and moving.

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#72 nuge2nail
March 11 2013, 03:15PM
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@A-Mc

Oiler Domination To Follow

Im sure Weber brings some Jam every night too.

Hart-Hopkins-Ebs, Paajarvi-Gagner-Yakupov, Hall-Horcoff-Hemsky, Smyth-Belanger-Brown...

Looks like there isnt enough room for Petrell Eager, and Jones - some players have to move. Might as well trade the guys who teams will value(Hemsky, Jones, rather than guys who dont, Petrell)

No team at the deadline will deal us a top 4 dman, so take the first rounders and trade them at the draft for NHL Talent.

Im not saying we dont NEED MORE OF what Jones and Smid bring, I just think Smid will be asking for top 4 money, when hes a bottom 2 dman. It will be a bad contract, hes a dumb version of Jason Smith, lacking hockey IQ to make simple plays out of the zone, get in good position to stop scoring chances, and move the puck up to the forwards with speed. He is one of the reasons we struggle to score 5x5 and is one of the reasons our pk has been good. Hes good and bad.

Andrew Ference is the type of D that could easily replace Smid without the 4/year he will be looking for.

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#73 A-Mc
March 11 2013, 03:18PM
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Quicksilver ballet wrote:

Even with what you mentioned in your last paragraph. It's okay to allocate the lions share of your budget on you top 10 (Top 7 forwards,top 3 D along with a goaltender) They play 75% of your minutes anyways. The rest you can buy at Walmart in the summer with free agents playing out the string, or up and comers. Your top 10 are your bread and butter. Todays contenders are in no way strong from top to bottom. Even the Kings won with 6+ AHL'ers on their roster at times earlier last year.

"Even the Kings won with 6+ AHL'ers on their roster"

See that is where the luck factor comes in IMO. You can't count on your AHL'ers filling roster holes (We've done this in Edmonton for years and we all know it doesn't work out very often). So when your AHL'ers step up and transform into something resembling a successful NHL player, you've got to count your lucky stars. Statistically speaking this rarely happens and even if it does, It happens in spurts so you can't count on consistency.

There are definitely some unknowns with cap space so i will concede that its not a strong argument of mine when i say that we can't afford to have the 7.8M cap hit that Weber would come with. Its a reasonable concern though, none-the-less because you don't know how you're going to fill the gaps that were created in acquiring Weber.

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#74 nuge2nail
March 11 2013, 03:21PM
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A-Mc wrote:

So you're assuming a team would give you a 1st rounder for a Smid RENTAL!?

Ya, i don't think so.

Ragging on Hemsky and his poor performance last year (worst year ever for him) isn't fair and you're doing it to try to make a point. If Hemsky is such a bum, why would someone trade a 1st and a prospect for him?

You can't say these guys are worth a 1st or more and then turn around and justify the trade by saying they are bums and are easily replaceable.

Oiler Domination To Follow

Yes Hemsky had a poor year last year. Yes hes playing good this year. Yes hes worth a first. Yes he may continue playing good, and yes he might go back to being a 30 point player.

We dont know but the player holds value because of his skill andlast year was his worst year in over a decade.

Remember the Penner trade, we got a first and a prospect for a player similar to Hemsky. It ended up working out for us, whos to say it cant happen again.

Smid fills a need for a playoff team, and should get us a first. If these players dont bring back first rounders, keep them. Im not saying dump them for a bag of pucks.

The first rounders arent top 20 picks either. We are talking about early second rounders basically, they would be in the 25-29 range. Pretty much 2-5 spots ahead of where our second rounder is every year.

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#75 nuge2nail
March 11 2013, 03:28PM
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A-Mc wrote:

"Even the Kings won with 6+ AHL'ers on their roster"

See that is where the luck factor comes in IMO. You can't count on your AHL'ers filling roster holes (We've done this in Edmonton for years and we all know it doesn't work out very often). So when your AHL'ers step up and transform into something resembling a successful NHL player, you've got to count your lucky stars. Statistically speaking this rarely happens and even if it does, It happens in spurts so you can't count on consistency.

There are definitely some unknowns with cap space so i will concede that its not a strong argument of mine when i say that we can't afford to have the 7.8M cap hit that Weber would come with. Its a reasonable concern though, none-the-less because you don't know how you're going to fill the gaps that were created in acquiring Weber.

Oiler Domination to Follow

What "Gaps"... this team is a perenial 29/30 place finisher. The gap we would like to fill is #1 dman. The second Gap would be #1 goalie.

I dont think the concern with creating a gap at #2 RW(when we drafted a RW #1 last year and have an all star RW on the tope line) and the gap created by losing a #4 dman in aqcuiring a number #1 makes any sense.

We are the worst team in the NHL! Wake up, we need less of the players we have, and more of the players from other teams. We are in year 7 of this never ending rebuild. The same players year in and year out. The same useless Vets. Team needs an overhaul, not an addition.

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#76 Taylor Gang
March 11 2013, 03:37PM
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nuge2nail wrote:

Oiler Domination To Follow

It is a pipe dream because we cant get the picks for hemsky, jones and smid?

Or a pipe dream because Nashville will never trade Weber?

Or Is it a pipedream because management is so delusional they are afraid to trade away a bag of pucks because theres a chance they might be magical?

Im betting on the last.

Interestingly enough, some say its a massive overpayment, and some say its not nearly enough... "this isnt NHL13"... im thinking somewhere in there is a deal to be made, especially if we acquire enough picks and the Preds dont make the playoffs. This is a team that heavily relies on profit sharing and without the playoffs, well they might have to trade away Weber.

You don't understand, we can't just trade away 4 players and an entire draft's worth of picks for ONE (count 'em one) player, especially considering the likelihood of where we're going to pick. Where would we get the players to fill the holes? We would HAVE to trade one of the kids, or else we wouldn't even be able to AFFORD Weber. (Cap hit of 7.8 million dollars) do you honestly think Poille is an idiot? He wouldn't even listen to an offer unless it involves one of the kids. In short, Weber would cripple this team much more than he would help it.

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#77 A-Mc
March 11 2013, 03:38PM
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nuge2nail wrote:

Oiler Domination To Follow

Im sure Weber brings some Jam every night too.

Hart-Hopkins-Ebs, Paajarvi-Gagner-Yakupov, Hall-Horcoff-Hemsky, Smyth-Belanger-Brown...

Looks like there isnt enough room for Petrell Eager, and Jones - some players have to move. Might as well trade the guys who teams will value(Hemsky, Jones, rather than guys who dont, Petrell)

No team at the deadline will deal us a top 4 dman, so take the first rounders and trade them at the draft for NHL Talent.

Im not saying we dont NEED MORE OF what Jones and Smid bring, I just think Smid will be asking for top 4 money, when hes a bottom 2 dman. It will be a bad contract, hes a dumb version of Jason Smith, lacking hockey IQ to make simple plays out of the zone, get in good position to stop scoring chances, and move the puck up to the forwards with speed. He is one of the reasons we struggle to score 5x5 and is one of the reasons our pk has been good. Hes good and bad.

Andrew Ference is the type of D that could easily replace Smid without the 4/year he will be looking for.

Harti is not an NHL player right now. By all accounts, he's filler. He doesn't get points, he doesn't bang bodies, he doesn't piss anyone off, he doesn't fight, He's not fast, and he's not a special teams expert in any way shape or form. Having him on your top line as a bigger body isn't a successful option. Currently, when the Oiler's have no one else, we'll put him up there for short stints, but he's not a guy you keep up there.

If the argument is being made that we need to move guys like Jones, Hemsky, Smid and whitney for various reasons, then i am definitely a willing participant. The only part i don't like about what you're proposing is that those guys + Picks are all going into acquiring 1 guy.

Now if we start talking about moving Hemsky for a grittier, but less skilled, 2'd line Winger: I'm on board.

Maybe Jones + pick for a 3rd-ish line Center? SURE!

Whitney - I'd re-sign him for cheap. Attack his self esteem and confidence and re-sign him for dirt. Then let him battle himself back into a top 4 role. win.

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#78 A-Mc
March 11 2013, 03:43PM
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nuge2nail wrote:

Oiler Domination to Follow

What "Gaps"... this team is a perenial 29/30 place finisher. The gap we would like to fill is #1 dman. The second Gap would be #1 goalie.

I dont think the concern with creating a gap at #2 RW(when we drafted a RW #1 last year and have an all star RW on the tope line) and the gap created by losing a #4 dman in aqcuiring a number #1 makes any sense.

We are the worst team in the NHL! Wake up, we need less of the players we have, and more of the players from other teams. We are in year 7 of this never ending rebuild. The same players year in and year out. The same useless Vets. Team needs an overhaul, not an addition.

I guess this is where we just don't agree.

I can't subscribe to the philosophy that it's OK to sell out everything to attain a top dman.

Hockey, in my eyes, is more of a team balance game. Sometimes special players can mask a hole but imo Weber is not actually one of those players. Good, yes. Pronger comparable? no.

We have been terrible for years partially because Management is scared to make even Middling trades, let alone top tier block buster ones.

I feel like you're whale hunting for a savior here and the under lying philosophy involved in doing that is something that doesnt sit well with me. But! That doesn't mean you're not free to suggest stuff like this. It's already provided both of us some good entertainment for the last couple hours; a win/win thus far!

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#79 nuge2nail
March 11 2013, 03:48PM
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@Taylor Gang

Oilers Domination To Follow

I am suggesting we trade the players with value for picks, because playoff teams dont do hockey trades for rentals. They trade picks and prospects for rentals.

Than you trade the prospects and picks to fill in the Gaps at the draft, when picks are worth a premium and teams are looking to dump cap.

Its not rocket science.

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#80 Quicksilver ballet
March 11 2013, 03:49PM
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All Oilers, all the time, i love it*

*even though you bastages are all wrong.

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#81 Walter Sobchak
March 11 2013, 03:58PM
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@nuge2nail

Oilers Domination to Follow

I like your head space, especially for Weber.

Hemsky is as much of a turn over machine as Yakupov, only Yakupov can learn; Hemsky has been doing it for years.

As for the three first rounder’s you speak of, I would much rather use those to get the size and fill the holes then use on Weber.

Weber = Gagner + Petry + Paajarvi and a first in 14.....This will get you Weber.

Now you don't have to worry about paying Gagner the 4.5 to 5.5 he will be asking for.

This year’s crop of 1st round picks maybe the best since 2003 draft and the Oilers NEED centers.

I would just like to see this Butter soft team get a little bigger, a little meaner and with one more elite center just a bit better offensively.

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#82 Taylor Gang
March 11 2013, 04:00PM
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nuge2nail wrote:

Oilers Domination To Follow

I am suggesting we trade the players with value for picks, because playoff teams dont do hockey trades for rentals. They trade picks and prospects for rentals.

Than you trade the prospects and picks to fill in the Gaps at the draft, when picks are worth a premium and teams are looking to dump cap.

Its not rocket science.

NHL GM's don't like trading. They would never trade a player for a pick, then trade that pick that they got a few months ago for another player. Too much margin for error. As I was saying before, Weber is NOT the answer to our problems. Look more reasonable, like Keith Yandle, Kevin Shattenkirk, Brent Burns. Even these players will cost a lot to acquire, but nowhere near what the cost of Weber is.

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#83 Oiler Al
March 11 2013, 04:08PM
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Smokey wrote:

I wish the pundits would stop spewing the propaganda after an Oiler's win. Anyone could of predicted a flat Chicago team and the a desperate Oiler's team. Horcoff is overpaid, overplayed, and needs to be bought out at the end of this season.

One game where the Oiler's beat a team won't change the fact that one of biggest problems are players with declining skills suck. Smitty, Belanger, Horcoff, Hemsky, Whitney are eating up cap space. (Good teams find returns for these players) I laugh at the propaganda that comes out in the media about this big life altering meeting where Horcoff channels the spirit of Russell, and Jordan, and Messier to lead the lost and flawed baby Oiler's. I'll eat crow when they string games, not a game together. Horcoff is a great leader like Archie Manning was for the NO Saints in the eighties. The argument don't wash when you loose all the time.

Lets get rid of the vets who don't produce or perform and move on in this rebuild. Let's stop living with mediocrity and making outlandish comments like the Oilers need Horcoff. I don't doubt his presence was felt yesterday, but any team as thin up the gut like the Oiler's would benefit significantly from a veteran player returning.

Smokey, thanks you saved me typing a bunch of words,couldn't agree with you more.

The guy won the Lowe Lotto, but that dosnt make him a great player.!

I would also add the two AHL players [ Petrel, and Hartikienen ] to your ' see ya list"

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#84 Quicksilver ballet
March 11 2013, 04:11PM
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The Oilers, being one of the best shot blocking teams in the NHL, is the equivalent to always being in defend/retreat mode, getting your show run, always being on the bottom during mating, eh,hudge nudge wink wink.

Hiding behind that shield isn't a badge of honor on the heels of 3 first overalls. It's a reflection of how bad we are. Not requiring a guy like Smid is what should be the goal. Adding a No.1 blueliner (insert Weber type here) and subracting a #4-6 blueliner Smid) is a step in the right direction. Ladislav is the best at what he does cuz we suck so bad.

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#85 A-Mc
March 11 2013, 04:22PM
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Quicksilver ballet wrote:

The Oilers, being one of the best shot blocking teams in the NHL, is the equivalent to always being in defend/retreat mode, getting your show run, always being on the bottom during mating, eh,hudge nudge wink wink.

Hiding behind that shield isn't a badge of honor on the heels of 3 first overalls. It's a reflection of how bad we are. Not requiring a guy like Smid is what should be the goal. Adding a No.1 blueliner (insert Weber type here) and subracting a #4-6 blueliner Smid) is a step in the right direction. Ladislav is the best at what he does cuz we suck so bad.

Let me fix that for you, for accuracy's sake:

"Adding a No.1 blueliner (insert Weber type here) and subtracting a #4-6 blueliner in Smid, a 2nd liner in Hemsky, a potential #3-4 in a recovering Whitney, a 3rd Line grit player in Jones, a 1st rounder and 2 second rounders) is a step in the right direction..."

-no thx.

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#86 Taylor Gang
March 11 2013, 04:24PM
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Quicksilver ballet wrote:

The Oilers, being one of the best shot blocking teams in the NHL, is the equivalent to always being in defend/retreat mode, getting your show run, always being on the bottom during mating, eh,hudge nudge wink wink.

Hiding behind that shield isn't a badge of honor on the heels of 3 first overalls. It's a reflection of how bad we are. Not requiring a guy like Smid is what should be the goal. Adding a No.1 blueliner (insert Weber type here) and subracting a #4-6 blueliner Smid) is a step in the right direction. Ladislav is the best at what he does cuz we suck so bad.

You could be right actually. Smid is a reminder of why we suck, not because he personally sucks, but because our team relies too heavily on defense who aren't up to the task of complementing the forwards with proper passing.

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#87 Spydyr
March 11 2013, 04:28PM
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Smokey wrote:

I wish the pundits would stop spewing the propaganda after an Oiler's win. Anyone could of predicted a flat Chicago team and the a desperate Oiler's team. Horcoff is overpaid, overplayed, and needs to be bought out at the end of this season.

One game where the Oiler's beat a team won't change the fact that one of biggest problems are players with declining skills suck. Smitty, Belanger, Horcoff, Hemsky, Whitney are eating up cap space. (Good teams find returns for these players) I laugh at the propaganda that comes out in the media about this big life altering meeting where Horcoff channels the spirit of Russell, and Jordan, and Messier to lead the lost and flawed baby Oiler's. I'll eat crow when they string games, not a game together. Horcoff is a great leader like Archie Manning was for the NO Saints in the eighties. The argument don't wash when you loose all the time.

Lets get rid of the vets who don't produce or perform and move on in this rebuild. Let's stop living with mediocrity and making outlandish comments like the Oilers need Horcoff. I don't doubt his presence was felt yesterday, but any team as thin up the gut like the Oiler's would benefit significantly from a veteran player returning.

Exactly.

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#88 Quicksilver ballet
March 11 2013, 04:44PM
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@A-Mc

YOU'RE NOT PLAYING BY THE RULES!

Bailiff, whack his pee pee!

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#89 cableguy - 2nd Tier Fan
March 11 2013, 04:54PM
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having horcoff all these years brought us the "shirts off for horcoff" chants on whyte ave during the 06 cup run. for that alone he is valuable.

/thread

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#90 nuge2nail
March 11 2013, 05:18PM
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@A-Mc

Oiler Domination To Follow

"I can't subscribe to the philosophy that it's OK to sell out everything to attain a top dman. "

I dont understand how selling everything while keeping Hall, Hopkins, Eberle, Gagner, Yakupov, J Shultz and Petry can be used in the same conversation. We are keeping our 7 most talented players while picking up the runner up for the Norris that last two seasons, and potential captain of Canadas next Olympic Team.

Im not saying lets trade Eberle + Gagner to bring in Weber, or Petry + Yakupov... Im suggesting we trade the spare parts that are not part of the long term plan, while we still have a chance. Hemsky gets injured, or Smid asks for too much money and we are left with NOTHING. Whitney is not resigning here, why would he, hes a healthy scratch more than he plays. Again, on the worst team in the Western Conference. Jones is the only guy I will miss and he is replaceable, if hes not than I hope he never retires or gets hurt again.

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#91 106 and 106
March 11 2013, 05:31PM
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Are we still talking about Whitney as being a reclamation project? He's bumping his own stock to take the first (better) ticket out of this town. Maybe get a 4th back for him?

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#92 106 and 106
March 11 2013, 05:31PM
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Are we still talking about Whitney as being a reclamation project? He's bumping his own stock to take the first (better) ticket out of this town. Maybe get a 4th back for him?

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#93 EHH Team
March 11 2013, 05:34PM
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Spydyr wrote:

You answered your own question " Im suggesting we trade the spare parts "

Why would Nashville trade one of the top 5 defencemen in the game for spare parts?

Lets trade Omark, Jones and Gagner for Crosby too.Man we will be awesome.

...and then we would have to sign him ...no sure thing

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#94 nuge2nail
March 11 2013, 05:37PM
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@Spydyr

Oiler Domination To Follow

How can your arguement go from we are giving up too much for Weber, to now why would Nashville do this trade?

Would 3 first rounders one being a lottery pick in the best draft since 03, and three seconds not be enough?

Is it an overpayment, or underpayment...

Im confused to what your thinking because you contradict yourself from comment to comment.

Hemsky-First rounder Smid- First rounder Jones-Second rounder

Add up the three picks with the three we have and we have a package of picks at the draft that can fill the holes we need to fill. It could be all the picks for Weber, it could be less picks for Yandle, it could be even less picks for Burns, or a multitude of picks for Erhoff.

Im suggesting we stock up on picks, and trade them at the draft similar to the way the Jays did this year. I know its a different sport but the idea is the same. Picks are traded at the deadline because teams dont want to trade away roster players. Picks are traded at the draft to teams who spent too much on free agency, and are looking to dump salary and make some changes.

Its not rocket science.

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#95 nuge2nail
March 11 2013, 05:49PM
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@Spydyr

Oiler Domination To Follow

So you think Hemsky isnt worth a first(Penner was), or Smid? Both First rounders being between 25-29? You think Jones wont get us a second(Cogliano did)...

Is this the reference your making to my "playstation trades"?

Seems like you share the mindset of current management... where trades dont happen in real life, just in video games, so why bother trying.

I dont even think you would have to try to complete the trades im talking about here. The only real question is would the Preds want to trade Weber. If not we can use the picks on other players.

Trading Hemsky, Whitney, Smid and Jones would clear up 14+ million in cap space... MAYBE WE CAN USE IT ON A PLAYER LIKE CLARKSON... Hmm signing a player who fits our needs rather than keeping the crap we have...

Its not rocket science or video games, its actually pretty simple if you have a clue.

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#96 Taylor Gang
March 11 2013, 06:21PM
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EHH Team wrote:

...and then we would have to sign him ...no sure thing

You are joking right?

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#97 nuge2nail
March 11 2013, 06:23PM
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@Wax Man Riley

Oiler Domination To Follow

Well than use the picks to aqcuire the next best Dman Available from a team trying to dump some cap space at the draft.

We need 2 top 4 dmen to have a half decent defense. Without adding, we end up in the same spot we have been for a decade now.

Oilers have NEVER WON THE NORTHWEST DIVISION. We are the only team in the NW to have never won the division. You know how sad that is. Ive been cheering for this below average, below mediocre team for over 15 years now without seeing any real improvement. In fact we continue to get worse year after year.

Again its not rocket science, bring in some new bodies, and get rid of the junk. Plug some holes, we are living in groundhog day hockey hell. Smid, Horcoff, Hemsky, Jones, Khaibulan, Whitney all need to pack their bags out of town so this nightmare can finally end. How long can we keep flooding these sites and talking about the same crap. We need defense, we need size, we need grit, we need to be tougher to play against, we need better goaltending, we need a better bottom six, barf.....

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#98 nuge2nail
March 11 2013, 06:29PM
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@Wax Man Riley

Oiler Domination To Follow

Your comments could have been used a few hours ago, convincing half the guys on this site that the 3 first rounders and 3 seconds were not a massive overpayment but an underpayment.

Most people were calling for Steves head with this offer.

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#99 Taylor Gang
March 11 2013, 06:39PM
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@nuge2nail

Whatever happens this year, we should not follow the Maple Leafs' strategy: panic and try to win now. Remember the Kessel deal? The one that traded away not one, but TWO draft picks to get their "franchise player"? Sure Kessel is a great hockey player but Seguin and Hamilton are both future franchise players. Trading for Weber would be a massive mistake.

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#100 nuge2nail
March 11 2013, 06:47PM
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@Taylor Gang

Oiler Domination To Follow

Why are you comparing Weber to Kessel?

Weber has been the runner up for the Norris in back to back years. Hes been nominated 4 years in a row.

I would trade Weber for Seguin and Hamilton today, after 3 years of development.

Bringing in Weber gives us a shot at a NorthWest Title, for the first time in Franchise History. Without him, or a player like him, expect more of the same... Lottery pick after lottery pick. Allowing these kids to learn how to lose and develop in a losing atmosphere. Eventually a player loses long enough(Gagner) he forgets what it feels like to win. Meaningless games in January, year after year is not a good thing. This needs to end now, not 3 years from now. Losing confidence year after year, is a massive mistake.

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