TRADE WINDS....

Jason Gregor
March 27 2013 12:45PM

The 2013 NHL trade deadline is next Wednesday at 1 p.m. MST, and the next week will be great for those who love trade rumours. One rumour got squashed yesterday when it was reported that Mikka Kiprusoff would not report to his new team if the Calgary Flames traded him, which of course was met by laughter amongst Edmonton fans.

Thankfully there are many other rumblings, rumours and potential deals floating around.

What will the Oilers do?

Nikolai Khabibulin made Doug Maclean's suggestion that he could fetch a 2nd rounder seem realistic after his 43-save performance last night.

The tougher question is are the Oilers better off having Khabibulin as a $1.2 million back up next year, or moving him for a draft pick?

So let's look at some of the options the Oilers have to trade. These thoughts are a combination of my views as well as what I've heard and read as far as pros and cons for each player from pundits and fans. I don't agree or disagree with all of them, but respect the differing views.

KHABIBULIN

  • Would he want to play for $1.2 million?
  • He turns 41next January, and age catches up with most players.
  • Unreliable due to injuries.
  • His history of injuries is the main concern. The interesting thing about Khabibulin is that he works incredibly hard to stay in shape. He's in really good shape, but you wonder if his body is breaking down. Maybe he pushes too hard, because he seems to tweak something every few weeks.
  • When he plays he's played very well. In six starts he has a sparkling 1.93 GAA and a .941SV%. Those numbers are unattainable over a long period, but we've seen that when he plays he can still win games.
  • He works well with Dubnyk. They have a healthy and respectful relationship.
  • I don't see the Oilers being able to overhaul the blueline in one summer. It would require three solid moves, and while it is possible, I'm not sure it is realistic. If the Oilers don't land highly touted college prospect Danny Dekeyser (who is good, but far from a saviour or lock to be a top-four), and another D-man via a trade of UFA signing (weak pool) then their D won't be much better next year and they will need a reliable back up.

RYAN WHITNEY

  • The free agent list isn't very good, especially for D-men under the age of 30.
  • Justin Schultz would be the only excellent puck mover remaining. The Oilers need D-men who can move the puck quickly and accurately to their skilled forwards.
  • The Oilers recent history of signing UFAs to come into Edmonton isn't great. There is no guarantee they will find a better replacement. There is also a good chance Whitney performs well in another environment. Being comfortable and feeling confident is a huge factor in how a player performs on the ice.
  • The advanced stats show he's struggled.
  • He will never be able to turn due to his surgeries.
  • It is clear the coaching staff doesn't have a lot of confidence in him. When that happens, usually it is hard to change it. If a player is worried about making a mistake and getting benched, usually they make more mistakes.

RYAN JONES

  • For a team that struggles to score ES, at least he can score 5-on-5.
  • He goes to the net regularly and scores garbage goals. Oilers don't have a lot of guys like that.
  • Jones is a complimentary player. He won't be a key cog in winning, but he's shown the ability to produce. While surrendering scoring chances doesn't look good on paper, scoring goals trumps that.
  • He is on the ice for way too many scoring chances against.
  • Teemu Hartikainen is bigger and can replace him.
  • He isn't physical enough on a team that desperately needs some guys who are harder to play against. He's a solid NHLer, but if needed they can find a veteran UFA to replace him.

I suspect those three would make garner the most interest, amongst players the Oilers would consider trading.

There are some other names that have been tossed around for the Oilers...

Ladislav Smid

  • I think the Oilers would be foolish to deal him. I outlined the available free agent D-men yesterday, and no one on that list looks like a potential upgrade to Smid. Smid knows his role and he's good at it. He plays hard and is the most physical D-man who plays every night. I still believe the Oilers and Smid will come to an agreement prior to April 3rd. If they don't we can chat about then after the 3rd.

Ales Hemsky

  • If you trade him at the deadline you are likely only getting picks and prospects in return. At this point in the rebuild the Oilers need to move him in a deal where you get a proven NHL player back in return rather than picks. He's played much better now that his shoulder issues are behind him and I suspect there would be more interest in the summer.

Sam Gagner

  • Gagner has been the lightning rod for years in Edmonton. He's had a great start to the season and will get a raise on his current $3.2 million contract this summer. His trade value is much higher now than it was last year, so the return would be better. Gagner is very popular in the dressing room, he has worked hard at improving his game and no one questions his desire. I don't see any reason to move him at the deadline, and if he they consider moving him in the summer they have to get a solid D-man of big, skilled forward in return. I don't trade Gagner for anything less than a proven player.

LOOKING AHEAD

No one knows what the future holds, but at some point the results have to match the "potential"and "patience" that has been talked about for years in Edmonton.

For me there is one obvious conclusion coming for the Edmonton Oilers. They won't be able to move forward with all six of their young 19-23 year-old forwards. They don't have the right combination of size, skill and sandpaper needed to succeed in the NHL. That doesn't mean they all won't be successful NHL players, it just means I don't see all of them developing with the Oilers.

Taylor Hall and Jordan Eberle will make $6 million next year. Gagner is in line for a raise that will put him close to $5 million next year and Ryan Nugent-Hopkins likely gets a contract similar to Hall and Eberle starting in 2014.

The Oilers still haven't found a recipe to win, and when they do they won't be able to afford all of their young stars, even if you believe they can win with six skilled forwards.

The Oilers need to get some size down the middle, improve their blueline and get some productive veterans into their lineup. The issue is many think they can do this without trading any of their young skilled players. Reality check, that isn't going to be possible.

The way I see it the Oilers will end up moving two, maybe three players amongst Hemsky, Gagner, Magnus Paajarvi and Nail Yakupov. You might not like that reality, but I don't see any other way this team will be able to improve and afford their lineup if they don't make those types of moves.

There is a good chance that the Oilers trade those guys and they put up decent numbers on another team, and likely more than the players coming to Edmonton, but that doesn't mean the Oilers will lose those trades. If they acquire a strong, steady defenceman for one of them that makes them more competitive.

If they acquire a skilled forward who plays physical, scores, is a good puck retriever and goes to the net that will make them better. The Oilers will still have three very good skilled players remaining, in Hall, RNH and Eberle and one or two of 64, 89, 91 and 83.

You can't expect the Oilers to have six forwards score 55+ points regularly. It just doesn't happen in today's game. You need a good mix in your lineup. You need some some skilled players with size and grit. Suggesting you don't doesn't jive with teams that win championships.

Here are the top scorers, with at least 34 points, of the last four Cup winners: 

LOS ANGELES          
Player  Pos  GP  G  A  P
Anze Kopitar C 82 25 51 76
Justin Williams R 82 22 37 59
Dustin Brown R 82 22 32 54
Mike Richards C 74 18 26 44
Drew Doughty D 77 10 26 36
Jeff Carter L 55 21 13 34
           
BOSTON          
Player  Pos GP  G  A  P
Milan Lucic L 79 30 32 62
David Krejci C 75 13 49 62
Patrice Bergeron C 80 22 35 57
Nathan Horton R 80 26 27 53
Mark Recchi R 81 14 34 48
Tomas Kaberle D 82 4 43 47
Zdeno Chara D 81 14 30 44
Brad Marchand L 77 21 20 41
Rich Peverley C 82 18 23 41
Michael Ryder R 79 18 23 41
           
CHICAGO Pos GP  G  A  P
Patrick Kane R 82 30 58 88
Duncan Keith D 82 14 55 69
Jonathan Toews C 76 25 43 68
Patrick Sharp L 82 25 41 66
Marian Hossa R 57 24 27 51
Kris Versteeg R 79 20 24 44
Troy Brouwer R 78 22 18 40
Andrew Ladd L 82 17 21 38
Brian Campbell D 68 7 31 38
           
PITTSBURGH          
Evgeni Malkin C 82 35 78 113
Sidney Crosby C 77 33 70 103
Chris Kunitz L 82 23 30 53
Jordan Staal C 82 22 27 49
Bill Guerin R 78 21 27 48
Petr Sykora R 76 25 21 46
Ruslan Fedotenko L 65 16 23 39
Miroslav Satan R 65 17 19 36
Tyler Kennedy C 67 15 20 35

Do you honestly believe the Oilers top-six resembles any of those teams?

The reality is the Oilers will need to move some of their skilled forwards.

The difficult question will be when and who?

THINKING OUTLOUD...

Yesterday on my radio show, I asked Jason Strudwick if he'd deal Nail Yakupov for David Clarkson. Of course the deal would hinge on Clarkson having a new contract and the Oilers getting something else in return. It wasn't a one-for-one deal.

The point of the question was to point out  that the Oilers will need to trade away a skilled player; one who likely will produce points elsewhere. (Yakupov was just an example. Not saying he is the 1st one I'd trade) And by trading one or two of them away, that doesn't mean they are bad players. It just means the Oilers need to alter their lineup to become more successful.

The difficult decision for the Oilers GM, whoever that is when the time comes to trade one of them, is making the right move. The move won't be made solely on statistics. They will have to look at other things: contracts, attitude, competitive nature, size, etc.

It won't be easy, but it you believe it won't happen I think you are fooling yourself.

The reactions to the Clarkson topic ranged from "You're an idiot," to "Yakupov could be like Stamkos."

Both made me chuckle, but the latter really stuck with me. Stamkos is the best goal scorer in the game, so of course it is realistic to compare Yakupov to him because they were both #1 picks and because Yakupov has a good one-timer. I hope for Yakupov's sake he becomes like Stamkos, but Stamkos has more to his game than a great one-timer. Stamkos has incredibly high hockey sense, and he's excellent at anticipating where the openings are in the offensive zone to get himself in good scoring areas.

Yakupov might become a very good scorer, but suggesting he'll be like Stamkos is the ultimate best-case scenario. It is unlikely, however. Just like it is unlikely that the first overall picks taken between Stamkos and Yakupov, John Tavares, Hall and RNH, will score as often as Stamkos.

Many people want the Oilers to acquire good players, but they aren't willing to give up anything of substance. Instead they want to offer up spare parts, usually players you feel are junk, to get players like Clarkson, Lucic, Clowe or others.  

If the Oilers are going to improve moving forward they will eventually need to change the mix amongst their top forwards. It will be a difficult decision, and the organization has to ensure they have the right guy calling the shots. Based on recent decisions, it is fair to question whether the current regime is prepared and able to make the right choice.

This type of trade will occur in the near future, and when it does, the Oilers must make the correct decision and they need the right man calling the shots.

RECENTLY BY JASON GREGOR

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One of Canada's most versatile sports personalities. Jason hosts The Jason Gregor Show, weekdays from 2 to 6 p.m., on TSN 1260, and he writes a column every Monday in the Edmonton Journal. You can follow him on Twitter at twitter.com/JasonGregor
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#201 HOFFFF
March 28 2013, 12:05AM
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Good call on Pittsburg DSF!

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#202 HOFFFF
March 28 2013, 12:08AM
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Bad call on Boston Aaron Ward!

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#203 Rocket
March 28 2013, 12:08AM
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Wow Pittsburgh really is all in!

Iggy & Sid on the same line? 2010 Olympics showed us that means gold. Should be fun to watch.

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#204 The Soup Fascist
March 28 2013, 12:10AM
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Holy curveball, Batman. Aaron Ward has some good size skates to pull out of his yapper.

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#205 The Soup Fascist
March 28 2013, 12:21AM
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Best line of the night on Flamer Nation:

"This trade directed by M. Night Shyamalan"

Funny stuff.

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#206 TigerUnderGlass
March 28 2013, 01:35AM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

Show me where I said compare the Oilers to the Hawks. Actually I included players who had 35 points to show it is rare for teams to even have 4 guys score 50.

Bolland is an excellent two-way player. Size has nothing to do with it. Suggesting Gagner plays like Bolland is completely inaccurate. The Oilers mix isn't just size. It is a lack of defensive awareness.

Hossa is a heavy player. Ask NHL D-men he's incredibly hard to play against. He also was 30 and a veteran. And you didn't include Patrick Sharp in their top-six? He had 66 points playing on the 3rd line? Wow that is the best 3rd liner in recent history.

And Sharp and Hossa were veterans, and the rest were all mid 20s...except Toews and Kane.

The Oilers are all kids and is a major factor. They don't have the gamesmanship or experience needed to win.

The Oilers are not built, and won't be in four years, to win with all kids. Age, size, maturity, style of play are the reasons. You don't have to like it, but if you don't see the differences between the Oilers and the makeup of the championship teams then you are watching more with your heart.

Then you can add in the salary cap factor and how the ELC deals will all be done in two years. Another major hurdle.

I went with the top six by even strength ice time per game during the playoffs the year they won the cup. You made it fairly clear you were talking about what was necessary to win in the playoffs no? Patrick Sharp was 7th after the players I named.

Makes more sense than throwing out names of guys who scored points, including defensemen, and asking if our top six looks like the players you listed. Instead of acting smug try asking why instead.

You are the king of the moving goalposts. How can you go on and on saying "does the Oilers' top six look like the top six of these teams" and then decide we're talking about anything but size?

You asked if they looked like these top sixes, I basically said I don't think it would take much to look like the CHI top six, and it wouldn't.

I don't have to like it? You think we need to move a #1 overall pick for a larger middling veteran player and I'm the one watching hockey more with my heart? That is insane.

I never said they should trade any of these guys. I have in fact repeatedly suggested Eberle should be moved. What I wouldn't do is trade Eberle for Troy Brouwer because TALL.

Of course those teams are different. Would you like to know how? Chicago didn't trade Kane to get Andrew Ladd. PIT didn't trade Malkin to get Kunitz. LA didn't trade Kopitar for Penner. The problem with the Oilers is that they might do exactly what you suggest and then wonder why they aren't improving.

Everyone but the Oilers' management knows they aren't going to win. It doesn't mean they should move Yakupov for the type of player who was subsequently dealt for Ivan Vishnevskiy and Atlanta's 2nd round choice. Ridiculous. There are other means to get players.

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#207 NewAgeSys
March 28 2013, 02:54AM
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@Oilanderp wrote:

Props Gregor for sticking your balls on the executioner block and actually suggesting a detailed possible solution, even if it was only an example.

Probably better though if you had auctioned them off for charity: 'Next up, Gregor's balls™'

Jesus, lets leave the cojones out of this , I have never heard an execution micro-managed to the degree that the twins became a target of the blade. There is something just not right about that....

Just curious here but is there a funky looking chopping block that comes with that visualisation?Ha ha ha AAGGHHH!!! God that whole idea is so wrong,hahaha.

The Oilers need to hire you ase a Motivational Facillitator. ha ha ha agh aghhh----Chokes on slice of Kiwi and gets lucky and executes a self-applied NHS Hemleich Manouver with the arm of the sofa and cheats the Reaper yet again---

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#208 Quicksilver ballet
March 28 2013, 03:16AM
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Man, that sure was an interesting evening, even for a non Calgary hockey fan.

Could be 5 yrs before they realize if they got the best of that deal today for Iginla.

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#209 Walter Sobchak
March 28 2013, 04:20AM
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DSF wrote:

If they can convince Kiprusoff to move and can get another first round pick that would make four.

An interesting draft.

A very good draft!

I think they move Kiprusoff this summer when everything dies down and Kipper has time to evaluate his next move. There’s your four first rounder’s, between Calgary and Columbus picks they could move forward quickly.

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#210 dougtheslug
March 28 2013, 06:47AM
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Walter Sobchak wrote:

A very good draft!

I think they move Kiprusoff this summer when everything dies down and Kipper has time to evaluate his next move. There’s your four first rounder’s, between Calgary and Columbus picks they could move forward quickly.

or not

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#213 Time Travelling Sean
March 28 2013, 06:54AM
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Why not see what Yak becomes before trading him? Didn't the Kings trade Jokinen before he could really be effective?

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#215 OilDieHard
March 28 2013, 07:33AM
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HOFFFF wrote:

Bad call on Boston Aaron Ward!

ya he really jumped the gun on that announcement, didn't he? still, if i'm the Flames management, i'm taking the Boston deal instead!

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#216 Fresh Mess
March 28 2013, 07:45AM
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Yakupov for Clarkson would be an all time terrible trade.

Yakupov and Hemsky in exchange for signed Clarkson AND Larsson and perhaps a mid round sweetner draft pick would be very interesting.

I'm surprised that is all Feaster managed to get. That first rounder is going to be somewhere in the range of #26-#30. Are either of those college players elite prospects?

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#217 K_Mart
March 28 2013, 08:10AM
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If you're suggesting that the oilers need some physicality in their top six than why would you propose trading the best hitter of the bunch yakupov? Terrible.

Between Yak Ebs Gags Hemmer Hall and Nuge, it is clear to me that Hemmer is the most moveable. Then if you're looking strictly at physicality you can trade Ebs. Yeah, I think Nuge is more physical than Ebs. And not just by a small margin either.

But what about Gagner? I'd probably consider trading him ahead of Eberle as well. Gagner may have fans and scouts thinking he is gritty and physical because of how often he fights but the reality is that without those fights his level,of physicality is right there with Ebs'.

In addition, there is still a market for MPS. I think Tambi should look at dealing,either Hemsky, Gagner(his value will NEVER be higher than it is now and I guarantee Tambo overpays him and hands him 4.5 mil. Which would be awful.) Or MPS. He still holds value but probably only in a package because there's no way he gets us a bonafide NHL top 9 guy.

hemsky, gagner, Whitney, or mps should be the ones we trade but only if the oil get a fair return. Especially in Gagner's case because wed need a 2nd line center coming back in that deal.

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#218 Truth
March 28 2013, 08:26AM
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I apologize if this has already been said, but Yakupov did beat Stamkos' rookie scoring record as a 16 yr old in Sarnia and was on pace to trump his draft year numbers prior to going down to injury. Also, remember all of the debate that Stamkos should have been sent back to junior in his rookie NHL season because he was undersized and not strong enough? He turned out to be pretty good.

In my opinion Yakupov (or any other 1st overall pick or star player) for a guy who scored over 32 pts once in his career is absurd no matter how much toughness he brings.

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#219 mr_nihilism
March 28 2013, 08:36AM
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There's an article on the "Cult of Hockey" about Boston possibly being a partner in a trade with Edmonton. If there is any truth to that then after what happened with Iginla, maybe a trade really will get done.

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#220 The Soup Fascist
March 28 2013, 08:44AM
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Walter Sobchak wrote:

A very good draft!

I think they move Kiprusoff this summer when everything dies down and Kipper has time to evaluate his next move. There’s your four first rounder’s, between Calgary and Columbus picks they could move forward quickly.

Calgary's last 20 years of 1st round selections:

Jankowski (Midget House League scoring champ in Quebec), Baertschi, 2010 Traded Away, Erixon, Neimsz, Backlund, Irving, Pelech, Chucko, Phaneuf, Nystrom, Kobasew, Krahn, Saprykin, Fata, Tkaczuk (Daniel - not Keith), Derek Morris, Gauthier, Dingman, Mattsson.

Wow. That is impressive. Do the Flames have Barry Fraser on speed dial in Mexico?

Let the Flames have four 1st round picks themselves - they will need all of them to find one viable NHLer.

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#221 RexLibris
March 28 2013, 08:56AM
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The Flames got hosed in the Iginla deal. The two prospects are borderline NHL depth talents and while the 1st round pick is a late pick in a draft considered to be deep, I don't have a great deal of faith in Tod Button or John Weisbrod to make the right call there.

That being said, I would consider moving the Oilers' two 2nd round picks for that late 1st. If it meant adding Anthony Mantha.

Having said that, this is Feaster, maybe the Oilers could offer Curtis Hamilton and Cameron Abney and get the 1st.

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#222 Lochenzo
March 28 2013, 09:28AM
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With the Quebec model, you're assuming that they wouldn't have won had they kept Sundin and Nolan. Yeah, Wendall Clark was awesome and Ozolinsh was a phenomenal offensive Dman, but the trade that got that franchise to the next level was the acquisition of Patrick Roy. If you do that one trade without trading away Sundin and Nolan, would the Avs still have won a Cup or two? I'd say yes. I'm not even factoring in the Lindros trade.

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#223 6 ring circus
March 28 2013, 09:46AM
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What does Edmonton have to give up to get Ray Shero? You watching Tambo? THIS is what a GM does.

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#224 Ogie Oilthorpe
March 28 2013, 09:58AM
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Rumors of Whitney to Bean Town + MPS or Hemsky..

I wonder if managment could ship Whitney and Hemsky + a 2 rounder and some salary back for Horton + a top 6 d-man (legit top six, not Potter, Teddy, etc)?

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#225 Ducey
March 28 2013, 10:10AM
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Ogie Oilthorpe wrote:

Rumors of Whitney to Bean Town + MPS or Hemsky..

I wonder if managment could ship Whitney and Hemsky + a 2 rounder and some salary back for Horton + a top 6 d-man (legit top six, not Potter, Teddy, etc)?

Horton is a shell of the player he once was. He has played 70 games once in the last 4 years. He has 24 hits this year. Concussions have reduced his effectiveness. See Ben Eager.

Boston isn't going to give up a roster player anyway.

Looking at Boston's prospect list, they don't really have anyting too exciting, other than Subban.

I think it will be something like Whitney for Jared Knight. I could live with that.

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#226 Ogie Oilthorpe
March 28 2013, 10:23AM
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Ducey wrote:

Horton is a shell of the player he once was. He has played 70 games once in the last 4 years. He has 24 hits this year. Concussions have reduced his effectiveness. See Ben Eager.

Boston isn't going to give up a roster player anyway.

Looking at Boston's prospect list, they don't really have anyting too exciting, other than Subban.

I think it will be something like Whitney for Jared Knight. I could live with that.

I agree I could live with Knight as well.. My (fading) hopes of Tambo making a blockbuster trade to bring in some roster players is fading every day we inch closer to the deadline. Hopefully, the horrible trade Calgary just made opens the door for a few more big deals.

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#227 RexLibris
March 28 2013, 10:32AM
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We should be sending Kiprusoff a gift basket. His removing himself from the trade market has actually created a market for Khabibulin.

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#228 Ducey
March 28 2013, 10:40AM
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Ogie Oilthorpe wrote:

I agree I could live with Knight as well.. My (fading) hopes of Tambo making a blockbuster trade to bring in some roster players is fading every day we inch closer to the deadline. Hopefully, the horrible trade Calgary just made opens the door for a few more big deals.

Your hope should have faded a few weeks ago.

They are 5 points out with 16 games to go. They need to win 10 or 11 of those. They are a .500 team at best.

The Oilers get badly outshot, even when they do win. There are too many holes and the kids are not mature enough to worry about this year.

They not making the playoffs.

The best course of action is to get rid of the vets with an eye to next year.

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#229 Will
March 28 2013, 10:48AM
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Edmonton's 1st for Glencross. Tough pill to swallow for several reasons, it's a deep draft, we initially had Glancross and let him go, his contract is not that good, especially with the no move clause he's rockin. But Gagner, Nuge, Horcoff, and Glencross gives us a good mix of size and skill at centre.

Name me another centre in the mold of Glencross that is attainable for our first round pick?

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#230 loosemoose
March 28 2013, 10:53AM
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@Jason Gregor

I like Yakupov's flair and the fact he is the most physical of the young forwards.

Most physical? Why are we trading a young kid with skill who plays physical away again????

Please stop defending this notion.

...the Oiler Way...

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#231 loosemoose
March 28 2013, 10:57AM
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Will wrote:

Edmonton's 1st for Glencross. Tough pill to swallow for several reasons, it's a deep draft, we initially had Glancross and let him go, his contract is not that good, especially with the no move clause he's rockin. But Gagner, Nuge, Horcoff, and Glencross gives us a good mix of size and skill at centre.

Name me another centre in the mold of Glencross that is attainable for our first round pick?

I'm assuming you're a Flames fan and trolling.....

that's a worse trade than "Yakupov-Clarkson"....if that's possible

The only center we should be getting with our first round pick is Barkov...

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#232 Ducey
March 28 2013, 11:02AM
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Will wrote:

Edmonton's 1st for Glencross. Tough pill to swallow for several reasons, it's a deep draft, we initially had Glancross and let him go, his contract is not that good, especially with the no move clause he's rockin. But Gagner, Nuge, Horcoff, and Glencross gives us a good mix of size and skill at centre.

Name me another centre in the mold of Glencross that is attainable for our first round pick?

Cmon man.

Glencross is a LW.

The Oilers will be able to get a good center in the draft.

Lets say they wind up with the first pick (possible if they don't make the playoffs) or even a top 5 pick.

You will have traded Glencross (who might be your 3rd line LW) for one of those guys?

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#233 Will
March 28 2013, 11:04AM
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loosemoose wrote:

I'm assuming you're a Flames fan and trolling.....

that's a worse trade than "Yakupov-Clarkson"....if that's possible

The only center we should be getting with our first round pick is Barkov...

Certainly not a Flames fan. I agree that if I thought we were getting Barkov this is not a good trade.

However, say we're drafting where we sit today, 9th. If you think Barkov is falling to ninth, you are the delusional one my friend.

So I ask again, what do you draft at ninth that is better right now, next year, two years from now, three years from now, then Glencross?

Or who do you get back with your first round pick, that is a better fit and option then Glencross? Don'e sit there and say I'm talking crazy without at least offering a reasonable alternative (drafting Barkov is not a reasonable alternative).

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#234 Will
March 28 2013, 11:22AM
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@Ducey

Hmmm, my bad. I really thought he was a centre for some reason.

Still though, we are currently drafting ninth, and I know there are some big centres, so who do you think we get. I know Stauffer is big on Gauthier. Do you thnk he's still there at around nine? What if we move up the standings a bit?

If all the prized centres are taken by the time we draft, I'd expect them to draft a D man, who might not work out for years.

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#235 vetinari
March 28 2013, 11:28AM
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This draft, we need to pick up either a centre or a defenceman with our first round pick-- the problem is that these players will not be solid contributors to the organization for 3 to 5 years. In other words, we need a few trades or UFA signings to bridge the gap between "today" and "tomorrow". Get do 'er Tambi's replacement!

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#236 Walter Sobchak
March 28 2013, 11:30AM
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The Soup Fascist wrote:

Calgary's last 20 years of 1st round selections:

Jankowski (Midget House League scoring champ in Quebec), Baertschi, 2010 Traded Away, Erixon, Neimsz, Backlund, Irving, Pelech, Chucko, Phaneuf, Nystrom, Kobasew, Krahn, Saprykin, Fata, Tkaczuk (Daniel - not Keith), Derek Morris, Gauthier, Dingman, Mattsson.

Wow. That is impressive. Do the Flames have Barry Fraser on speed dial in Mexico?

Let the Flames have four 1st round picks themselves - they will need all of them to find one viable NHLer.

No argument here, the Flames have a bad history, but having 4 picks in the first round of a very deep draft is a very good start, if Button listens to his brother even a little.

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#237 Ogie Oilthorpe
March 28 2013, 11:36AM
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@Ducey

I don't disagree at all but I think now is the time to start lending players out, but the Oil need roster players in return. They should be shopping picks plus roster players for a decent d-man and big center (or winger if the can move #4 to centre).

I just don't want to see guys getting shipped off for picks that will take another 3 years to develop and 75% of which will never see the show. No more prospects, EDM should be shedding a few prosepects and picks to for Roster Players now. Sign the guys for 2-3 years and get them to start buying into the system today.

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#238 Ducey
March 28 2013, 11:37AM
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Will wrote:

Hmmm, my bad. I really thought he was a centre for some reason.

Still though, we are currently drafting ninth, and I know there are some big centres, so who do you think we get. I know Stauffer is big on Gauthier. Do you thnk he's still there at around nine? What if we move up the standings a bit?

If all the prized centres are taken by the time we draft, I'd expect them to draft a D man, who might not work out for years.

Barkov is ranked 6th by ISS. He is 6'2", 200lbs as an 18 year old. Pure center. Finnish.

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#239 Ogie Oilthorpe
March 28 2013, 11:38AM
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Whitney out of the line-up tonight? Hopefully on a plane.

Nevermind..

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#240 Quicksilver ballet
March 28 2013, 11:42AM
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If we have to settle on Barkov, how long is it before he sees NHL action, 2yrs away?

Same Ship, different year again going into next season if that's the case. Management needs to turn up the heat and ship some bodies out so we can more than likely be in that top 3 again. New blood in, deadwood out.....repeat as many times as possible.

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#241 bored
March 28 2013, 11:46AM
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@Lochenzo

It's not that simple. The only facts that we have are that they picked 1st overall 3 years in a row - taking a forward each time - Not to mention drafting Sakic mid to late 1st round in prior years (hello more Eberle com parables) and that they traded 2 of those 1st round picks for complementary players and than made smart trades along the way to fulfill needs that allowed them to win Stanley Cups.

Who's to say that if they keep Sundin and Nolan they don't become the Washington Capitals and eventually bottom out.

The chose to build around the players they thought were best and leveraged their assets to bring in the right kind of players that build winning teams.

I think Hall, Eberle and Shultz are the right players to build a team around...

Championship Hockey teams and all-star teams are very different types of teams.

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#242 Will
March 28 2013, 11:47AM
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Ducey wrote:

Barkov is ranked 6th by ISS. He is 6'2", 200lbs as an 18 year old. Pure center. Finnish.

Again, huge fan of taking Barkov. But some lists rank him as high as third or fourth. Thankfully, I don't think we are drafting that high this year.

I just can't see any draft scenario where we get Barkov, unless maybe he gets injured and no one wants to take a flyer on an injured player. Even if we win the lottery (again), we take Jones, no question.

I think we should all just get Barkov right out of our heads, unless Oilers start falling in the standings, which is not something I want to see again.

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#243 TigerUnderGlass
March 28 2013, 11:56AM
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@Jason Gregor

Never said that was the trade. I used it as an example.

Right. An example of the type of trade to make. I never suggested you said otherwise, just that it was insane.

How are the Oilers close to Chicago? Who are the veterans amongst the kids in three of four years?

You spoke of size and grit and only added the the "veteran" bit after I commented.

Are willing to trade Eberle, just because he isn't a #1 pick, even though he's already produced 76 points and is the best pure shooter they have?

Is this a serious response? I don't know what to say to this. I say "don't trade a #1 for middling big players" and you interpret that as "can't trade for any reason because #1". Did you also note the part where I made a similar caveat regarding Eberle as I did the #1s?

So trading Eberle is okay, but trading Yakupov at some point is ridiculous. Again, I repeat, I wrote that Clarkson was an example. Eventually they will trade some of the young kids, likely sooner than you think.

Again I repeat that this is so far from what I said that I don't think you are even trying. For the last time - I am not opposed to trading anyone on this team with the possible exception of Hall. Just not a #1 pick (or Eberle as my last comment already specified) for guys routinely available for much much much less.

When we know they are not. Chicago didn't win with all kids. Truth.

This part is hilarious. I am on record repeatedly saying the team cannot just sit around drafting players and fall magically into a cup. One last time - trade anyone from the roster, just don't do it because "big".

And do you know that Que/Colorado the last team to draft three consecutive #1 (1989-1991) traded all three of them before winning Cup in 1996. I know that Lindros trade was major exception. But they dealt Nolan at the start of 1995/1996 season.

You keep making this point as though it contradicts what I've been saying. It does not.

And going by ES minutes is cherry picking and you know it. Sharp played the 6th most PK minutes and 2nd most PP minutes of the forwards. He played 5th most TOI of all the forwards and you tried to suggest he wasn't top-six.

Most people define their lines by who plays on the top 2 EV lines, not necessarily by who are the best players. I never suggested he wasn't one of their best players, just that he didn't play top six minutes at EV - you know, the way people usually define lines (unless it contradicts their point I guess).

Interestingly, like Sharp, Horcoff is 5th among Oiler forwards in total minutes thanks to PP and PK time. Is he top six? In that case - taadaa veteran center 6'1 207 Lbs.

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#244 TigerUnderGlass
March 28 2013, 12:07PM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

RNH and Schultz ELC ends next year, Yakupov ends in 2014. That is only two years man. The Oilers set bar too high with Hall/Eberle signings, you don't think RNH and Yak will look for same.

I'd hope Oilers look at J.Schultz like Subban, but I'm not convinced.

This is an interesting topic here. As long as all those guys want is the same, and they are good enough for it, this is not really a problem.

Last year some time I looked around at salaries around the league and I noticed that most of the top teams had about 33-37M in salary tied up in their best 6 players. The could sign all 5 of these guys to identical 6M deals and would still only be at 30 for their top 5 contracts, meaning they could still pay a pretty high quality defenseman. I also suspect that by the time Yakupov is due in 2015 (not 2014) the cap will be at least back to where it is right now. PIT has 32.4M tied up in their top 5 contracts right now, and over 36 in their top 6.

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#245 The Soup Fascist
March 28 2013, 12:16PM
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Walter Sobchak wrote:

No argument here, the Flames have a bad history, but having 4 picks in the first round of a very deep draft is a very good start, if Button listens to his brother even a little.

Forget any Button, even if they listen to central scouting they would be better off. All these "off the board" picks just reek of head scout / GM ego. Like they have to prove they are the smartest guys in the room. Oilers were no better taking the Jesse Niinimakis and Alex Mikhnovs of the world.

My point is you can have all the first rounders you want. If you squander them they are worthless. I remember like it was yesterday everyone watching the 2004 draft had local boy Mike Green pencilled in when the Flames came up - only to here the immortal words - "Chris Chucko" followed by an audible "who?" from fans and commentators alike. These guys are not splitting atoms here.

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#246 BRHLBryce
March 28 2013, 01:08PM
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Edmonton-Boston trade

Whitney, Jones & Khaby for Caron & Khudobin

makes almost too much sense for both teams.

Oilers move their expendable guys in 1 swoop, get a big winger who can play top 6, and a decent young backup who can push Duby.

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#247 thebiggestmanintheworld
March 28 2013, 02:20PM
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@Will

Glencross for our first rounder would.be a bad trade.

I don't see Barkov falling to 9th either....take it for what its worth I guess...

We are not in a position to deal a possible top ten pick for Glencross....although we do need a player like him, this is not the way to go.

If anything, that first is a sweetner to a big deal for a stud dman.....one can dream....

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#249 TigerUnderGlass
March 28 2013, 05:52PM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

Who defines 2nd line players just by ES icetime? I didn't see that in the 2nd line handbook.

Most people use TOI to determine who is their most important and used forwards...Usually their top-six, except sometimes the 3rd centre.

And you said Oilers are close to Chicago when in fact they aren't. Not close. Write whatever you want, but they aren't similar. Not at all.

I wrote from the beginning the make up of the team wasn't good. You choose not to see that. Make up includes many things including experience and age. You choose to ignore that and focused only on Clarkson...

You missed the entire point...

You were focused on size and grit as always. You repeatedly asked if they looked like the top sixes you mentioned.

I pointed out that Chicago's top six was not especially gritty with the exception of Byfuglien. They, in fact, do not "look" that different.

I'm not sure how I focused on Clarkson when I never referenced the man. I'm focused on the fact that you seem to believe the team should trade high end players for marginal players because "intangibles". That kind of thinking is why bad teams stay bad.

Can you point out where any of those four teams traded a first line quality player for a guy like Ladd or Brouwer?

Right after CHI won the cup Ladd was traded for hardly anything and here you are wanting to offer a 9 for a 6 because of "fit". These guys move around because they can be had. Yakupovs and Eberles are not so easy to come by.

Out of curiosity - Has a #1 overall pick ever been traded during or after his first year in the league? I can't remember any except holdouts.

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#250 TigerUnderGlass
March 28 2013, 05:57PM
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@Jason Gregor

Also...

Most people use TOI to determine who is their most important and used forwards...Usually their top-six

How does this contradict what I said? You didn't answer as to whether or not Horcoff is top six given his similar usage.

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