Jay Bouwmeester traded to St. Louis

Jonathan Willis
April 01 2013 07:18PM

Photo: Resolute Wikimedia

According to multiple media reports, the Calgary Flames have sent veteran defenceman Jay Bouwmeester to the St. Louis Blues. Coming back is a conditional first round draft pick, as well as prospects Mark Cundari and Reto Berra.

The Return

The conditional first round draft choice. As per James Mirtle, the first round pick will be a 2013 selection if St. Louis makes the playoffs this season, and a 2014 pick if the Blues fail to make the playoffs. Should the first round pick be deferred to 2014, Calgary will also receive the Blues' fourth-round selection in 2013.

Mark Cundari. The soon to be 23-year old Cundari was never drafted, but plays a well-rounded game - he has ability with the puck, doesn't back down physically, and is strong positionally. The problem is that he's undersized for the position, listed at 5'10", 210 pounds. He's a decent prospect, but hardly a blue-chipper. The good news is that he's good enough to play regularly in the AHL right now.

Reto Berra. A fourth-round draft pick in 2006. Berra is likely best-known in North America for his work representing Switzerland at the World Juniors (he also played at the 2012 World Championships). He's spent the last few seasons in the top Swiss league, posting mediocre numbers (he has a 0.906 save percentage this season). The good news is that he's interested in coming to North America; the bad news is that based on his work overseas he may not have much of an impact.  

It's a very similar package to what the Flames received for Jarome Iginla: a first round draft pick and a pair of middling prospects that will fill depth roles but cannot be regarded as high-end acquisitions.

The Context

Bouwmeester led the Flames in ice-time this season, averaging 25:09 per game; he also led the Flames' blue line in quality of competition and the percentage of shifts started in the defensive zone. Elliotte Friedman tweets that the Blues will assume responsibility for the entirety of Bouwmeester's contract, saving the Flames $6.6 million dollars next season and slightly more ($6.68 million) in cap hit. 

However, on the same day that Buffalo dealt Robyn Regehr - older, not signed for next season, and averaging almost 7:00 less per game - for a pair of second round draft picks, the return for a legitimate top-pairing NHL defenceman like Bouwmeester seems underwhelming. With the additional context of the Douglas Murray trade (again, for two second round picks) days earlier, that feeling is reinforced. 

In the defence of Flames management, Bouwmeester's no-trade clause doubtless limited the number of teams they could negotiate with. Even so, this is clearly a trade that favours St. Louis - in a fight for their playoff lives, they managed to add a top-pairing defenceman for what is likely to be a middling first round pick and two guys they likely won't ever miss. 

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Jonathan Willis is a freelance writer. He currently works for Oilers Nation, the Edmonton Journal and Bleacher Report. He's co-written three books and worked for myriad websites, including Grantland, ESPN, The Score, and Hockey Prospectus. He was previously the founder and managing editor of Copper & Blue.
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#151 SmellOfVictory
April 01 2013, 10:22PM
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FireOnIce wrote:

Agreed re: Rattie. STL badly needs the help and Feaster should've seen that. When the phone rang, his first two words should have been Ty and Rattie.

I would be okay with this deal if it was Ty Rattie and a 5th rounder for JBo. Or 1-for-1.

JBo + 3rd for Rattie + 5th. Rattie + 6th. Not JBo for a pile of magic beans, a half-eaten bag of chocolate pretzels, and the keys to a 2005 Kia Sorento.

Those proposed trades are worse than the one Feaster made. Rattie hasn't proven anything yet, beyond an ability to score on stacked Junior teams (something Nemisz also did). Rattie and the 1st, maybe; Rattie alone or with a minor pick added? Nope.

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#152 mattyc
April 01 2013, 10:26PM
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@?

Taylor isn't the best goalie that's played for the Flames this year. I'm not even sure he's the 3rd best. Kipper hasn't been great this year, but you have to have some leeway with someone who's proven he can be a good goalie. Taylor hasn't proven squat. He had a strong start to the year in the AHL. The way I see it Kipper has earned (or merited) the benefit of the doubt for some shoddy games because of his track record.

Jbo's cap hit is the problem - not the actual dollars. Detroit (I'm not sure why Philly would want JBo since it looks like they'll miss the playoffs), LA, STL, whoever aren't cheap, they just can't fit 7mil under the cap without sending us back a contract (that either they don't want to lose, or we wouldnt want to take)

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#153 Stockley
April 01 2013, 10:40PM
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mattyc wrote:

Taylor isn't the best goalie that's played for the Flames this year. I'm not even sure he's the 3rd best. Kipper hasn't been great this year, but you have to have some leeway with someone who's proven he can be a good goalie. Taylor hasn't proven squat. He had a strong start to the year in the AHL. The way I see it Kipper has earned (or merited) the benefit of the doubt for some shoddy games because of his track record.

Jbo's cap hit is the problem - not the actual dollars. Detroit (I'm not sure why Philly would want JBo since it looks like they'll miss the playoffs), LA, STL, whoever aren't cheap, they just can't fit 7mil under the cap without sending us back a contract (that either they don't want to lose, or we wouldnt want to take)

Kipper has had plenty of chances to work his way out of his season-long funk. Other than a handful of games he has looked very ordinary this season. Elite goalies find a way to steal a game now and then. We got spoiled by how often he would do that. Now that he no longer seems up to the task it's very easy to turn on him. His return to normal has exposed this team for what it has been for a long time. Mediocre and in drastic need of change.

I am not annoyed that Iginla and Bouwmeester were dealt. It had to happen. I don't like how either trade went down and I am not at all impressed with the returns and from all I've read I'm hardly alone on either sentiment.

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#154 Jeff Lebowski
April 01 2013, 10:42PM
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the-wolf wrote:

Not sure how that helps your argument. JBo is legit 2D top shutdown, 30 minute/night guy. Even if you feel he's not as good as those other main pieces, that doesn't justify the return on this one.

It helps because you gave examples of where prospects were traded. They were traded for higher quality players than JBo (that seemed obvious).

Therefore how can one expect quality top prospects in return?

JBo is 34th in d scoring (this being a renaissance year for him. The kast three years being horrible offensively). No where near the offence of Burns or Heatley (relatively speaking) at time when those trades made.

What it does justify is in order to get top prospects you have to give up quality (usually in the form of offensive player).

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#155 the forgotten man
April 01 2013, 10:48PM
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Tod(d) Button must be crapping his pants right now...the next 10 years of this franchise hinges on his draft recommendations this year. Oh God, the humanity!!

Way to put all your boiled eggs in one basket, Feast.

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#156 JayD
April 01 2013, 10:48PM
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Disappointed in the return for JBo. Like a lot of commenters, thought that Rattie would have been part of the return. This was a situation unlike Iginla where there was no ticking bomb on a contract.

Now, if the rumors are true and the Leafs are sniffing around Kiprusoff, then Mr. Feaster, please have the first pitch be Joe Colborne and a second rounder.

Bring Joe home. His contract is up (RFA). And the second rounder replaces the one that went to Montreal in the Cammalleri deal.

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#157 Stockley
April 01 2013, 10:54PM
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JayD wrote:

Disappointed in the return for JBo. Like a lot of commenters, thought that Rattie would have been part of the return. This was a situation unlike Iginla where there was no ticking bomb on a contract.

Now, if the rumors are true and the Leafs are sniffing around Kiprusoff, then Mr. Feaster, please have the first pitch be Joe Colborne and a second rounder.

Bring Joe home. His contract is up (RFA). And the second rounder replaces the one that went to Montreal in the Cammalleri deal.

After his performance tonight we'd be lucky if they take Kipper for futures.

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#158 kantsequentialist
April 01 2013, 10:57PM
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SeanCharles wrote:

"Show me a trade where a top prospect was involved?"

2011/02/09 Anaheim Ducks traded Jake Gardiner, Joffrey Lupul and a conditional fourth-round draft pick in 2013 to the Toronto Maple Leafs for Francois Beauchemin.

At that time Gardiner was a 19 year old d-man and Lupul had a blood infection, weighed 165 lbs. and looked like he might never play again. Hardly A+ prospects

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#159 ?
April 01 2013, 10:59PM
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Kypreos wrote:

WOW

"Terrific 2 way dman" Throw away your glasses dude.

Last year you were probably one of those screaming to trade him for a bag of pucks.

The key was the first round pick....

All day long baby!

Actually I was one of the many people on FN who supported JBouw. I was one who wanted to trade Stajan for a bag of pucks tho. Many people on FN realized the importance of Jay for years, as he plays against the extremely difficult comp and manages to do it with inexperienced d-partners. You're the one who NEEDS glasses. You fail to recognize a great d-man, and think a mid 1st round pick is worth him. There's a reason why teams wanted to acquire him, but your ol' pal Feaster made another disappointing deal.

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#160 the-wolf
April 01 2013, 11:00PM
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BurningSensation wrote:

In the order you raised them:

- Irving wasn't 'thrown to the wolves', he was given one last shot to prove he could be an NHL goaltender after being a dog's breakfast from the day he was drafted.

- Taylor was only signed to an NHL deal because Kipper got hurt, and Irving sucked.

- Crushed the confidence of our best player...which would be...?

- Baertschi underperformed, got hurt, and was reassigned to the AHL to give him high end minutes. That's what you do with developing players.

- They traded the Captain and JBo for 1st rnd picks in the deepest draft in a decade, and collected 4 prospects in the bargain. Two of which have taken their teams to the frozen four NCAA tourney, and another who was above average as a rookie in the AHL Berra is well regarded by scouts (but frankly, I had never heard of him).

- The ROR signing was a win. We forced Colorado to keep their RFA at a price that will choke their cap space and internal budget. Cost us nothing.

- I for one have defended the Jankowski_Seiloff move from the word go. Better to draft a possible #1 center than the guarnateed 3rd liner Buffalo took with our pick.

But once again, the same people (I'm looking at you The_Wolf) who bitched and moaned that we needed a rebuild are the first to bitch and moan when they get one.

Yup, rebuild, not a dumbass rebuild. You know, the kind you keep defending. You need to stop mixing the 2 up. But then again, what do the Flames do that you don't defend?

I also never wanted Feaster here, btw.

ROR a win? What a joke. As though that was the Flames' plan all along or something. So what would that have done to our cap space? Wait, thank goodness Avs matched or it'd blunder of the century. Win?! Hahaha

Thanks for taking the time to post here Mr Feaster.

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#161 Kypreos
April 01 2013, 11:04PM
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Stockley wrote:

Been a fan a long time. I've stuck with the team through the dark late 90's and all the crap since. This is the first time I'm starting to feel shame if I wear Flames merchandise. Too much of their recent history is indefensible.

Extra 1st rounder scare me more than excite me at this point because I'm afraid they'll just be used to select more marginal talents no one has ever heard of.

I have been here since the start.

You should be ashamed of yourself for those comments.

Stand by your team. You don't always have to agree with them.

Prepare your self it is going to get worse before it gets better.

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#162 McRib
April 01 2013, 11:04PM
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@JayD

Honestly I'll defend Feaster on the Iginla trade as I think the two prospects that we got back seem very underrated, but the Bouwmeester trade was Horrendous.... a conditional first... a 5'10" DEFENSEMAN!!!! and A MEDIOCRE GOALIE who isn't coming over from Switzerland anytime soon..... Good luck with that.... After all the we can get more for JBO a Sean Couturier or a Nyquvist and a Calle Jarnkrok, all we get was a salary dump and a conditional first....

If we do trade Kipper for anything worth while it will be a miracle!!! Joe Colborne has apparently been battling a wrist injury for six months and is lighting it up, he would be a solid pickup. Or a Greg McKegg who is buried on that team.... But it will most likely be for a couple ECHLers or Carter Ashton who is Tampa's version of Greg Neimsz.

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#163 ?
April 01 2013, 11:06PM
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Kypreos wrote:

I have been here since the start.

You should be ashamed of yourself for those comments.

Stand by your team. You don't always have to agree with them.

Prepare your self it is going to get worse before it gets better.

Blind faith is never a good thing.

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#164 McRib
April 01 2013, 11:06PM
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I was at the Okotoks Oilers Jr. A game tonight and WOW...... People were shaking their heads at that trade... Sad. On a side note what an exciting hockey game.

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#165 RexLibris
April 01 2013, 11:07PM
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@the forgotten man

I suspect Feaster and Weisbrod will make many of the calls on the first round picks.

Look at it this way: remember Feaster talking up Jankowski at the desk right after drafting him last June?

Now, imagine the media influence they will try to initiate with three 1st round picks garnered in trades of Iginla and Bouwmeester and perhaps the highest-ever selection by the Calgary Flames?

I'm interested to see the players they target (I think Seth Jones is a no-brainer given the Winterhawks connection, and wouldn't even be particularly surprised if Feaster tried to trade up using one of those extra picks to get him). As well, to hear what is communicated to fans and the media regarding this next phase.

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#166 BurningSensation
April 01 2013, 11:09PM
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Stockley wrote:

Meant to say crushed the confidence of our best prospect. The prized Euro signing would be Cervenka.

Taylor played admirably enough in his second game and then was summarily banished back to the A so Kipper could come back and prove once again that he's not the goalie he once was. I know few goalies could put up solid numbers behind this shoddy defensive play but he's been awful.

The ROR signing was a PR nightmare on almost every level. Don't try to play it off like a calculated risk to force a rival team to screw up their payroll. They didn't get the player they coveted, they dealt with some ugly fallout that made them look incompetent.

There is no guarantee the Blues make the playoffs, even with Bo in the lineup. In which case the Flames get a middling pick in a far less deep and impressive 2014 draft and an iffy 4th rounder this year.

I'm not claiming to be the most educated hockey guy on the planet or by the same token the most astute armchair GM alive. But I do read a lot of hockey, I watch a lot of hockey. The fact Calgary traded their two best assets and I'd never heard of any of the 4 prospects coming back before worries me a little. I forgive the Iggy trade, they did right by the captain and he got to choose his final destination. What was the rush in moving Bouwmeester? Hard to believe this deal or a deal similar to it wouldn't have still been waiting at the draft or over the summer.

You seem to be looking at this team with rose-colored glasses just as I'm sure you think I'm being overly negative and pessimistic. Given our opinions seem to be polar opposites I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I hope your optimism prove to be more true to life than my pessimism. Otherwise we're all in for some very ugly years ahead.

...winter is coming.

Sending Baertschi to the Heat was precisely to NOT crush his confidence. Keeping him on the roster would have served no purpose once he showed he wasn't ready to take a top 6 role away from anyone.

The ROR signing worked out, 'PR nightmare' or not. We hurt a rival at no cost to ourselves. That is pure upside. If any GM should be embarrassed it's Colorado's, If they had known that their own player was waiver eligible simply mentioning that in the media would have guaranteed no offers tendered by anyone.

Do you have any doubts that StL makes the playoffs? I don't.

Deals in the summer tend not to be as good as those made at the trade deadline. Once the playoffs are over, teams start to value their picks more (the incentive of short term gain is far less) - and it is the pick that is the real prize.

There are a ton worse strategies for a rebuild than dealing away your oldest-most expensive players for 1st rnd picks in a deep draft and prospects.

http://youtu.be/KUtdXzBSVaU

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#167 the-wolf
April 01 2013, 11:09PM
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Jeff Lebowski wrote:

It helps because you gave examples of where prospects were traded. They were traded for higher quality players than JBo (that seemed obvious).

Therefore how can one expect quality top prospects in return?

JBo is 34th in d scoring (this being a renaissance year for him. The kast three years being horrible offensively). No where near the offence of Burns or Heatley (relatively speaking) at time when those trades made.

What it does justify is in order to get top prospects you have to give up quality (usually in the form of offensive player).

You asked for who got top prospects back. I listed them, plus picks, as you noted that went with them.

Saying those guys are way better than JBo is subjective and a cop-out given what he provides, which is more than points.

Also, SeanCharles listed the Beauchemin trade.

You can make excuses and each situation is unique, but it's been done.

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#168 Stockley
April 01 2013, 11:10PM
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Kypreos wrote:

I have been here since the start.

You should be ashamed of yourself for those comments.

Stand by your team. You don't always have to agree with them.

Prepare your self it is going to get worse before it gets better.

The Flames are like family at this point. I'm allowed to feel shame for them if I like. At the moment they've earned it. Doesn't mean I'm not going to stand by them.

I don't care if they're my team. If they do something I feel was outrageously stupid then I am certainly entitled to express my opinion and feel however the hell I want.

I refuse to act like it's all good and keep smiling. I'd rather look negative and disappointed than simple and like I'm turning a blind-eye to a disaster unfolding before me.

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#169 Kypreos
April 01 2013, 11:13PM
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? wrote:

Actually I was one of the many people on FN who supported JBouw. I was one who wanted to trade Stajan for a bag of pucks tho. Many people on FN realized the importance of Jay for years, as he plays against the extremely difficult comp and manages to do it with inexperienced d-partners. You're the one who NEEDS glasses. You fail to recognize a great d-man, and think a mid 1st round pick is worth him. There's a reason why teams wanted to acquire him, but your ol' pal Feaster made another disappointing deal.

Recognize this:

-38 during his time as a flame.

HOF numbers I guess, eh!

LOL

Again they were after the 1st.

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#170 the-wolf
April 01 2013, 11:15PM
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@BurningSensation

Btw, where has all your faith in Flames' management ever been right?

Were you for a rebuild? When? For trading Iginla? When?

You keep defending your moves Mr Feaster, but look at the standings.

Your entire stance is based on a record of failure. Makes no sense. Flames suck, but they do no wrong. Right, good argument.

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#171 ?
April 01 2013, 11:15PM
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@Kypreos

Didn't I just say that he plays against extremely difficult competition? He's obviously going to have a big -. And btw, everyone knows plus/minus is highly flawed.

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#172 Derzie
April 01 2013, 11:16PM
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3 cracks at Jankowski Version 2. Magic Beans. Rights to underachieving college kids and Euros. We are lost at sea boys.

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#173 aloudoun
April 01 2013, 11:18PM
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They are finally accepting the inevitable and thats amazing. I am happy. Yes the trades could be better but the draft picks are coming in a very deep draft.

Would it be a likely scenario that we get 2nd overall and draft Mackinnion then package both our late firsts to move up and get Droiun? I just hope our priority is a NUMBER ONE CENTER.

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#174 Kypreos
April 01 2013, 11:19PM
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? wrote:

Didn't I just say that he plays against extremely difficult competition? He's obviously going to have a big -. And btw, everyone knows plus/minus is highly flawed.

Holy crap dude.

Pull your head out of the sand!

Could be why most other teams first line had so much success against us.

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#175 the-wolf
April 01 2013, 11:20PM
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BurningSensation wrote:

Sending Baertschi to the Heat was precisely to NOT crush his confidence. Keeping him on the roster would have served no purpose once he showed he wasn't ready to take a top 6 role away from anyone.

The ROR signing worked out, 'PR nightmare' or not. We hurt a rival at no cost to ourselves. That is pure upside. If any GM should be embarrassed it's Colorado's, If they had known that their own player was waiver eligible simply mentioning that in the media would have guaranteed no offers tendered by anyone.

Do you have any doubts that StL makes the playoffs? I don't.

Deals in the summer tend not to be as good as those made at the trade deadline. Once the playoffs are over, teams start to value their picks more (the incentive of short term gain is far less) - and it is the pick that is the real prize.

There are a ton worse strategies for a rebuild than dealing away your oldest-most expensive players for 1st rnd picks in a deep draft and prospects.

http://youtu.be/KUtdXzBSVaU

Really? Cause Feaster himself said the price tag dropped several teams out of the running. Summer gives teams more of a chance to sort that stuff out.

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#176 Stockley
April 01 2013, 11:22PM
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BurningSensation wrote:

Sending Baertschi to the Heat was precisely to NOT crush his confidence. Keeping him on the roster would have served no purpose once he showed he wasn't ready to take a top 6 role away from anyone.

The ROR signing worked out, 'PR nightmare' or not. We hurt a rival at no cost to ourselves. That is pure upside. If any GM should be embarrassed it's Colorado's, If they had known that their own player was waiver eligible simply mentioning that in the media would have guaranteed no offers tendered by anyone.

Do you have any doubts that StL makes the playoffs? I don't.

Deals in the summer tend not to be as good as those made at the trade deadline. Once the playoffs are over, teams start to value their picks more (the incentive of short term gain is far less) - and it is the pick that is the real prize.

There are a ton worse strategies for a rebuild than dealing away your oldest-most expensive players for 1st rnd picks in a deep draft and prospects.

http://youtu.be/KUtdXzBSVaU

There are no sure things in life. The Blues could very easily miss the playoffs. As good as Jake Allen has been, he's still a rookie. With Halak on the shelf indefinitely and Brian Elliot looking like the Brian Elliot of old their playoff hopes hinge on a rookie goalie. Their D just got a talent injection but it's still not a sure thing for St. Louis.

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#177 Stockley
April 01 2013, 11:27PM
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aloudoun wrote:

They are finally accepting the inevitable and thats amazing. I am happy. Yes the trades could be better but the draft picks are coming in a very deep draft.

Would it be a likely scenario that we get 2nd overall and draft Mackinnion then package both our late firsts to move up and get Droiun? I just hope our priority is a NUMBER ONE CENTER.

Is it a deep draft? Yes. Many of the same experts that claim such also say it is once again a very top heavy draft. The guys chosen later will quite likely go on to become successful NHLers. The list of sure things ends in the top 10. Flames have one crack at a sure thing. The other two picks could go either way. Will make for an exciting draft for a change, much more exciting than cursing as the Coyotes chose Brandom Gormley with our pick. At the same time Calgary has had serious trouble finding value in the 1st round at the draft. Nemisz, Irving, Chucko, Pelech, Fata, Dingman, Mattson, Saprykin, Tkaczuk. I'm sure I'm missing a few but I'm already going to have nightmares about this list. Of the above Saprykin is the 'good' one. That says it all.

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#178 BurningSensation
April 01 2013, 11:28PM
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Stockley wrote:

There are no sure things in life. The Blues could very easily miss the playoffs. As good as Jake Allen has been, he's still a rookie. With Halak on the shelf indefinitely and Brian Elliot looking like the Brian Elliot of old their playoff hopes hinge on a rookie goalie. Their D just got a talent injection but it's still not a sure thing for St. Louis.

I never said it was a sure thing, but the D-corps in StLouis is arguably the best in the league now, and Hitchcock teams are always well coached defensively.

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#179 Kent Wilson
April 01 2013, 11:29PM
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Man, the prospects being thrown into these deals are, um...

That said, Cundari is at least interesting given some of his results. An undrafted throw in though?

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#180 Stockley
April 01 2013, 11:30PM
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@Kent Wilson

When even professional hockey people seem to need google to identify some of these prospects I'm not feeling very optimistic.

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#181 ?
April 01 2013, 11:32PM
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@Kypreos

So u think JBouw was the problem. Wow, you are lost. That must explain why the Blues, at least in your opinion, gave up so much to get him.

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#182 Stockley
April 01 2013, 11:33PM
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BurningSensation wrote:

I never said it was a sure thing, but the D-corps in StLouis is arguably the best in the league now, and Hitchcock teams are always well coached defensively.

I still don't like the conditional bit. Makes an already iffy trade look even worse.

With little beyond uncertainty already bogging down this team and most of the players packing it in, probably reducing their value in future trades a sure thing in a guaranteed 2013 1st rounder would have been nice. Just feels like Feaster caved a little too easily to avoid having to eat part of Bo's contract.

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#183 jeremywilhelm
April 01 2013, 11:35PM
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No doubt this is truly an ugly return. The Iginla one was understandable. This one? Not so much.

I've resigned myself to the fact that I can literally do nothing to influence what is happening, so I am gonna just watch and hope we don't end up like the Atlanta thrashers.

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#184 Kent Wilson
April 01 2013, 11:36PM
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@Stockley

I mean, Reto Berra was taken in the 2006 draft and born in 1987. That's not even a "prospect" at this point - he's a 26 year old pro hockey player in the Swiss league. Most GM's wouldn't even look twice at him as a free agent signing.

That's literally organizational flotsam being thrown into the trade for whatever reason. It barely qualifies as an asset. Leland Irving is a more legitimate goalie prospect and the Flames don't value him at all.

Pretty clear the team wants first rounders this year. I still don't really know why there was a rush to deal Bouwmeester right away, though, if this was the best package available.

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#185 Stockley
April 01 2013, 11:37PM
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jeremywilhelm wrote:

No doubt this is truly an ugly return. The Iginla one was understandable. This one? Not so much.

I've resigned myself to the fact that I can literally do nothing to influence what is happening, so I am gonna just watch and hope we don't end up like the Atlanta thrashers.

The irony for me is I stopped wearing all Flames merch since the Iginla trade. Today I broke out of my little funk and now this.

I'm a little ways away from resignation I think. Still too angry.

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#186 the-wolf
April 01 2013, 11:37PM
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BurningSensation wrote:

I never said it was a sure thing, but the D-corps in StLouis is arguably the best in the league now, and Hitchcock teams are always well coached defensively.

Best in the league now? Yet you back the return. I can't even read your posts anymore. Nonsensical, zealous apologist backing a team that's been getting worse for years and is now bottom 3.

"WE WON THE ROR FIASCO!!!!!" Cheese and crackers, what revisionist history nonsense.

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#187 aloudoun
April 01 2013, 11:37PM
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If we have the choice the Flames better draft MacKinnon... the number one center we have always needed.

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#188 BurningSensation
April 01 2013, 11:38PM
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Kent Wilson wrote:

I mean, Reto Berra was taken in the 2006 draft and born in 1987. That's not even a "prospect" at this point - he's a 26 year old pro hockey player in the Swiss league. Most GM's wouldn't even look twice at him as a free agent signing.

That's literally organizational flotsam being thrown into the trade for whatever reason. It barely qualifies as an asset. Leland Irving is a more legitimate goalie prospect and the Flames don't value him at all.

Pretty clear the team wants first rounders this year. I still don't really know why there was a rush to deal Bouwmeester right away, though, if this was the best package available.

My guess is that the NMC played a role, and that the Flames brass were told not to eat salary.. I'd also guess (wildly) that Hartley has some connection to Berra.

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#189 Stockley
April 01 2013, 11:40PM
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Kent Wilson wrote:

I mean, Reto Berra was taken in the 2006 draft and born in 1987. That's not even a "prospect" at this point - he's a 26 year old pro hockey player in the Swiss league. Most GM's wouldn't even look twice at him as a free agent signing.

That's literally organizational flotsam being thrown into the trade for whatever reason. It barely qualifies as an asset. Leland Irving is a more legitimate goalie prospect and the Flames don't value him at all.

Pretty clear the team wants first rounders this year. I still don't really know why there was a rush to deal Bouwmeester right away, though, if this was the best package available.

I'm with you there.

Would be great if Berra somehow became a big deal if only because I'd love to hear that name on tv. His numbers were pretty pedestrian last season. If he was a legitimate prospect he'd be a much bigger blip on the radar screen and we'd be excited; not shaking our heads at Feaster's used-car salesman pitch about how he's the best goalie in Europe.

I wonder if they can turn Tanguay or Camm into yet another 1st. I have little faith Kipper will net much of a return at this point. I'm not mentioning our other tangible asset/winger for fear that typing his name means we will lose him. If they let him go I might literally cry. Unless he wants out, in which case god speed, can't say I'd blame him.

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#190 Stockley
April 01 2013, 11:42PM
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aloudoun wrote:

If we have the choice the Flames better draft MacKinnon... the number one center we have always needed.

Would be a hard call if Jones is also on the board. Either way, these guys could become franchise players. I just feel the Flames are better stocked up front than they are on the blueline; even without that 1st line center they've needed forever.

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#191 Kent Wilson
April 01 2013, 11:43PM
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@BurningSensation

Sure, but then ask for a 5th round pick. Or nothing, frankly, which is really what Berra is.

Harltey might have a connection, but it's still bonkers.

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#192 the-wolf
April 01 2013, 11:43PM
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Kent Wilson wrote:

I mean, Reto Berra was taken in the 2006 draft and born in 1987. That's not even a "prospect" at this point - he's a 26 year old pro hockey player in the Swiss league. Most GM's wouldn't even look twice at him as a free agent signing.

That's literally organizational flotsam being thrown into the trade for whatever reason. It barely qualifies as an asset. Leland Irving is a more legitimate goalie prospect and the Flames don't value him at all.

Pretty clear the team wants first rounders this year. I still don't really know why there was a rush to deal Bouwmeester right away, though, if this was the best package available.

No, no Kent. Feaster said they now have the best 2 goalies in the world outside the NHL.

At this point I'm just hoping we hit home runs with the 1sts.

Welcome to Oil country.

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#193 Stockley
April 01 2013, 11:44PM
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BurningSensation wrote:

My guess is that the NMC played a role, and that the Flames brass were told not to eat salary.. I'd also guess (wildly) that Hartley has some connection to Berra.

Hartley had a much more clear tie to Steve McCarthy. They still let that guy walk when they had the opportunity to keep him around and keep the coach happy.

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#194 Jeff Lebowski
April 01 2013, 11:44PM
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the-wolf wrote:

You asked for who got top prospects back. I listed them, plus picks, as you noted that went with them.

Saying those guys are way better than JBo is subjective and a cop-out given what he provides, which is more than points.

Also, SeanCharles listed the Beauchemin trade.

You can make excuses and each situation is unique, but it's been done.

What does he provide? Defensive acumen? You don't get top offensive prospects for shutdown guys (especially shut own guys making nearly $7M).

My point, that you fail to grasp, is JBo doesn't net you top offensive prospects.

The prospects you listed were had for offensive guys (Burns, Heatley).

If the Beauchimin deal is the only one (SeanCharles can list) where top prospect was shipped for a non offensive guy that is hardly evidence of precedence. It was a one off.

I'm pretty sure most gm would not trade a controllable top offensive prospect for an overpaid "shutdown (-11)" d, when the cap is falling next year.

You fail to recognize that in new NHL you put premium on offensive guys. Those guys make the money, those guys are most valuable, those guys are scarcest. The more than points that Bouwmeester provides can be obtained on the cheap.

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#195 BurningSensation
April 01 2013, 11:45PM
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the-wolf wrote:

Best in the league now? Yet you back the return. I can't even read your posts anymore. Nonsensical, zealous apologist backing a team that's been getting worse for years and is now bottom 3.

"WE WON THE ROR FIASCO!!!!!" Cheese and crackers, what revisionist history nonsense.

What did the ROR 'fiasco' cost the Flames in assets?

Not a damn thing. Colorado has an internal budget, and we fed them a poison pill that will choke their cap space. So yeah, we won on the ROR offer.

My only problem with the Bouwmeester deal is that it isn't a crushing victory.

We could use a trade where we absolutely hose the other team - and this wasn't it (unless Berra ends up being Swiss for 'Hasek').

As for your ability to read, well, I always had my doubts.

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#196 aloudoun
April 01 2013, 11:46PM
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Cundari won two memorial cups... (keep telling myself... "Glass half full, glass half full") I agree on trading Tanguay and Cammy... (hopefully even Sarich and the Anton)

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#197 Stockley
April 01 2013, 11:46PM
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the-wolf wrote:

No, no Kent. Feaster said they now have the best 2 goalies in the world outside the NHL.

At this point I'm just hoping we hit home runs with the 1sts.

Welcome to Oil country.

I think I'd be happier with one home run and a couple of ground doubles. They swung for the fences last summer and I think most of us are chewing our nails hoping that doesn't turn out to be a colossal blunder. It's time to go for safer picks over projects when possible. Late picks are supposed to be where you take your chances, not in the early rounds when you can't afford to get it wrong.

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#198 clyde
April 01 2013, 11:47PM
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I do know the Detroit offer would have been more attractive to us fans as we would have at least found their guys on a prospect list. Perhaps the Flame Brain trust knows something about these 2 no names though but I am worried that the Blues willingness to eat the whole contract was the reason the Flames took the Blues offer rather than the Wings.

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#199 Stockley
April 01 2013, 11:47PM
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aloudoun wrote:

Cundari won two memorial cups... (keep telling myself... "Glass half full, glass half full") I agree on trading Tanguay and Cammy... (hopefully even Sarich and the Anton)

Since I'm already playing the part of Eeyore tonight; Nemisz was on those Mem cup teams as well.

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#200 Blitz
April 01 2013, 11:47PM
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This is an absolute joke. We could have demanded Ty Rattie. Jay you blasted mutton head. I can't even believe this !@#$.

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