THE GRADUATES!

Lowetide
April 28 2013 10:21AM

Another year, another astonishing rookie crop. Since 2010, the Edmonton Oilers have added exceptional young talents to their roster and watched them play major roles on the young team. This year promised to be very good, and it did not disappoint in terms of quality rookies.

2010-11

  1. Jordan Eberle 69, 18-25-43
  2. Taylor Hall 65, 22-20-42
  3. Magnus Paajarvi 80, 15-19-34
  4. Linus Omark 51, 5-22-27
  5. Jeff Petry 35, 1-4-5

2011-12

  1. Ryan Nugent-Hopkins 62, 18-34-52
  2. Anton Lander 56, 2-4-6
  3. Teemu Hartikainen 17, 2-3-5
  4. Colten Teubert 24, 0-1-1

2012-13

  1. Nail Yakupov 48, 17-14-31
  2. Justin Schultz 48, 8-19-27

 

That's an amazing cluster of players. There's no goaltender, but two fine defensemen, a center with a wide range of skills, and the marquee position (winger) delivered three outstanding players (Hall, Eberle, Yakupov) and a nice one in Paajarvi. All in a three year span!

OILERS HAVE DONE BETTER IN THE PAST!

Sure, the best rookie cluster in a three year period was probably 1979-1981, and it stopped traffic:

THE ROOKIES 79-80

  • Dave Lumley (80, 20-38-58)
  • Kevin Lowe (64, 2-19-21)
  • Peter Driscoll (39, 1-5-6)

THE ROOKIES 80-81

  • Jari Kurri (75, 32-43-75)
  • Glenn Anderson (58, 30-23-53)
  • Paul Coffey (74, 9-23-32)

THE ROOKIES 81-82

  • Grant Fuhr (48, 3.31 .899)
  • Charlie Huddy (41, 4-11-15)

The list of players who were not considered rookies because of WHA games played (Gretzky, Messier, etc) would make this three year cluster the best all-time for any team. As it is, that's a handful of HOFers plus very nice pieces on top of it. Fuhr in goal, Coffey, Lowe, Huddy on the blue and Kurri, Anderson and Lumley up front is glorious in a three year span.

WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?

This may not be the best three season rookie cluster in team history, but it's certainly worthy of a double take. I do think the three number one picks will reach exceptional levels of play, so we should re-visit the conversation a few years down the road. Add in Jordan Eberle, Justin Schultz and a fine young player in Petry and we could be looking at something very special building here.

These kids are just getting started.

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Lowetide has been one of the Oilogosphere's shining lights for over a century. You can check him out here at OilersNation and at lowetide.ca. He is also the host of Lowdown with Lowetide weekday mornings 10-noon on Team 1260.
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#51 Jeffff
April 28 2013, 12:50PM
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Lowe is still around, until he goes Oilers will be in perpetual rebuild.

Deja Vu all over again.

You guys don't have to rewrite any articles change a few names here and there and it will turn out the same again.

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#52 EHH Team
April 28 2013, 12:51PM
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Fisher wrote:

This summer I'd move Hemmer, but I'd keep PRV for sure. Same with Hall, RNH, Yak, Ebs and Shultz. I feel like PRV just finally figured out how to play in the NHL, and based on the last three years, you'll get him cheap on this next contract. He'll for sure end up being a value contract and out preform whatever we sign him for. He might not be a banger, but I think you need value contracts as we move forward. I'd also shoot big on the draft, and package up the 7th, and both 2nds, trying to move up for Barkov (4-5th). If not, perhaps a play for Larsson out of NYJ. They have the draft and the 7th, plus Hemmer might get that done. I'm sure Kovi wouldn't mind that. Sean Monahan wouldn't be bad and although Mantha could look nice in Copper and Blue I'd prefer a Center. Alternatively, packaging both ends up and moving up into 23-26 range and grabbing a Gauthier (6-5 C), Lazar, or D man Robert Hagg (6-2, great skater and solid puck mover). If they're there, fingers crossed. Hagg and Klefbom Shultz and Petry could be a very good core D two years from now.

Intersting. I like the idea of packaging to move up for Barkov, although it liely requires getting the fourth pick. I am guessing that the Oilers might be planning to draft a goal tender with one of the second round picks (at least that's my hope).

Would the seventh plus one second and a third be enought to swap with Nashville for the number four pick (which would guarantee one of Barkov, McKinnon or Drouin)? Alternatively, the seven pick plus Hemsky (& a third?) might do it.

The swap of picks might work with Calgary to get the number five pick (for Monahan) as Calgary might want volume considering their early stage of rebuild.

I also don't mind trying to trade the seventh plus Hemsky to NJ for Larsson. One way or another, I think a priority should be to get something useful for Hemsky, if not this summer, then at the trading deadline.

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#53 Jasmine
April 28 2013, 12:54PM
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@EHH Team

Weber doesn't have a no trade clause. Those aren't allowed to be included in Offer Sheets.

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#54 EHH Team
April 28 2013, 12:57PM
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Ralph wrote:

Everyone one seems on the good mood regarding the Oilers. Last night's game was about a team not caring and going through the motions . Vancouver used this game as practice. They games really means nothing, but fans will put faith in it.

I wonder if Sam Gagner not being pick for the World Championship means Oilers are trading him. Nice to see Justin Schultz play in the Worlds event hough he does not deserve to. It will be a excellent learning experience.

I think not picking Gagner simply means they think they have better options at centre and right wing.

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#55 Jasmine
April 28 2013, 12:59PM
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@Jeffff

Oilers need to stop their Lowe hatred. Lowe has been hated since the day he was hired. Fans wanted him fired the day he got hired. Lowe has been bashed for every trade he made. Lowe even received death threats for a trade.

To make matters worse, Oilers fans gave Tambi credit for hiring Stu MacGregor as head scout when it was Lowe. Lowe hired Stu MacGregor as head scout after the 2007 draft and Tambi was hired in 2008. The Lowe hatred has got to go.

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#56 RexLibris
April 28 2013, 01:00PM
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With regards to Jim Nill going to Dallas, that looks like a hiring, and I am glad he's going there rather than, oh, Calgary. However, just as two years ago everyone was ready to crown Yzerman as the next best GM in the NHL, let's wait and see what Jim Nill can actually do in Dallas.

Detroit is a very well-run team, and they usually make the right call on developing players, but if there were a PDA-like stat for team's drafting percentages, Detroit's would be highly unsustainable. Since around 1996 they have drafted at or below the league average of 18.5%, yet the players they have found, often late, have proven to be superstars.

I would love to have Jim Nill in Oilers management, but I think it is best if we wait and see what he can do with respect to Dallas' situation before declaring that the team will now automatically become a powerhouse.

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#57 Jeffff
April 28 2013, 01:01PM
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Look where Edmonton has finished

2009- 2010-- Last place 2010- 20 11- Last place 2011-2012- second last 2012-2013-

Fans and coaches have really overrated this team.

The Oilers have many holes you can't have a record like this without having big holes. 90% of this team is overrated.

You can do all the mental calculus and come up with excuses but the facts speak for themselves.

Fire Kevin Lowe

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#58 Ralph
April 28 2013, 01:02PM
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EHH Team wrote:

I think not picking Gagner simply means they think they have better options at centre and right wing.

You could be right we will have to see who they are bringing to play.

It was just a thought

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#59 David S
April 28 2013, 01:05PM
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Jasmine wrote:

Oilers need to stop their Lowe hatred. Lowe has been hated since the day he was hired. Fans wanted him fired the day he got hired. Lowe has been bashed for every trade he made. Lowe even received death threats for a trade.

To make matters worse, Oilers fans gave Tambi credit for hiring Stu MacGregor as head scout when it was Lowe. Lowe hired Stu MacGregor as head scout after the 2007 draft and Tambi was hired in 2008. The Lowe hatred has got to go.

YAH SLATS DIDN'T HATE LOWE WTF?

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#60 EHH Team
April 28 2013, 01:11PM
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Jasmine wrote:

Weber doesn't have a no trade clause. Those aren't allowed to be included in Offer Sheets.

While they can't be included in offer sheets they can be included in a matching contract. After your reply, I checked further and while a no trade clause was discussed (according to web reports in August), the contract submitted to the league reportedly did not include a no trade clause. I was wrong to include this argument.

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#61 Spydyr
April 28 2013, 01:11PM
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David S wrote:

He's bringing 65 points (equivalent/82G) to the table in a position he's not best suited for (C). A smart team shifts him to the wing and brings in a C to "do more without the puck".

Gagner goes to wing on 2L, shift PRV to 3L. Alot of our problems would be solved if this happened.

Then you'd have:

Hall-Nuge-Yak, Gags-new guy-Ebs

Then fix the 3L: PRV-Horc-new guy

Your 4L: Harti-Lander(?)-(designated face puncher)

*Sorry Smytty

Bam! Stanley Cup playoffs!

Yes I know how many points Gagner had. My question was: What exactly does Gagner, without the puck, bring to the team ?

Care to take a shot at that?

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#62 michael
April 28 2013, 01:21PM
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If I had my druthers this is hw I would have the OIlers lineup look in 13-14

RNH,Ebs,? MP,Hall,Yak Horcoff,Stalberg,Hemsky ?,?,? Brown Smid,Petry JS,N Shultz Klefbom,Potter ? DD,?

I am concerned at the rehab time it may take for RNH to get back to 100%.The Oilers may move Hall to center if they feel its an option. I personally would and then use Ganger to get another piece. I think Drouin would fit nicely with Ebs and RNH. His skill set and compete would do nicely. I am moving heaven and earth to move up and draft him. I am MacT I would ask Smyth to retire gracefully. He looked out of gas a lot of nights. The heart is willing but the legs are not.

I think we'll win the draft tomorrow. Our 4% chance is as good as any 27 % someone else has. Drop the balls and pick ours on Monday night.

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#63 dougtheslug
April 28 2013, 01:23PM
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RexLibris wrote:

With regards to Jim Nill going to Dallas, that looks like a hiring, and I am glad he's going there rather than, oh, Calgary. However, just as two years ago everyone was ready to crown Yzerman as the next best GM in the NHL, let's wait and see what Jim Nill can actually do in Dallas.

Detroit is a very well-run team, and they usually make the right call on developing players, but if there were a PDA-like stat for team's drafting percentages, Detroit's would be highly unsustainable. Since around 1996 they have drafted at or below the league average of 18.5%, yet the players they have found, often late, have proven to be superstars.

I would love to have Jim Nill in Oilers management, but I think it is best if we wait and see what he can do with respect to Dallas' situation before declaring that the team will now automatically become a powerhouse.

Detroit hasn't drafted a player of consequence since Johan Franzen back in 2004, although they have a smattering of third and fourth liners and 5-6 dman (Kindl, Abdelkader, Nyquist) - certainly nothing in the last 8 drafts. Amazing how they have built their reputation as draft sages on 2 picks from 14 and 15 years ago (Zetterberg, Datsyuk) and the biggest reason for their success, Nik Lidstrom, drafted over 20 years ago. That core, along with Mike Ilitch's deep pockets in the pre-cap era leading to astute free agent signings, are responsible for the success of Detroit, not their amateur scouting. And now that the core is aging, they are starting to struggle-it was Zetterberg's heroic efforts over the past 5 games that allowed Detroit to squeak into the playoffs on the last day, not any players outside that core.

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#64 David S
April 28 2013, 01:36PM
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Spydyr wrote:

Yes I know how many points Gagner had. My question was: What exactly does Gagner, without the puck, bring to the team ?

Care to take a shot at that?

See sentence 2 in my original comment.

Gagner is over tasked to be a decent C given his skillset (your perception that he's not doing enough without the puck), but would be outstanding as a winger. Therefore a solution would be to bring in a decent top 6 C and shift Sam to the wing.

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#65 EricOG
April 28 2013, 01:38PM
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Jasmine wrote:

Oilers need to stop their Lowe hatred. Lowe has been hated since the day he was hired. Fans wanted him fired the day he got hired. Lowe has been bashed for every trade he made. Lowe even received death threats for a trade.

To make matters worse, Oilers fans gave Tambi credit for hiring Stu MacGregor as head scout when it was Lowe. Lowe hired Stu MacGregor as head scout after the 2007 draft and Tambi was hired in 2008. The Lowe hatred has got to go.

Unbelievable,let me ask you what else has 6cuplowe done besides getting lucky on the way to g706?

1.This guy has not shown any knowledge whatsoever about how to manage a cap. 2.Handed out contracts like they were candy bars. 3.Managed to make Edmonton look worse than prison. 5. Believes he is better and/or smarter than everybody else.

One more time, he was a member of teams BUILT to win the cup. He WAS NOT the architect of those teams.

I don't see other teams lining up to get his services, why is that? But, i'm just a center ice and merchandise fan, not a Rexal Place fan so what do I know. FIRE 6CUPLOWE LIKE RIGHT NOW!!

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#66 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
April 28 2013, 01:41PM
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Jasmine wrote:

Oilers fans up to their usual tricks running players out of town and blaming management when fans are the reason players don't sign in Edmonton.

Kids, now listen. ^^^This^^^ is what happens when you say yes to "The Dope". It's not too late, there's still hope for you to turn out better than Jasmine.

Stay in school and off the dope.

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#67 Spydyr
April 28 2013, 01:42PM
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David S wrote:

See sentence 2 in my original comment.

Gagner is over tasked to be a decent C given his skillset (your perception that he's not doing enough without the puck), but would be outstanding as a winger. Therefore a solution would be to bring in a decent top 6 C and shift Sam to the wing.

OK,

My perception:

Does he play good defensively: No

Does he have a good forecheck: No

Is he strong on the puck: No

Does he make his teammates better: No

Does he win one on one battles: No

Does he hit: No

Is he good at faceoffs: No

Has the team made the playoffs with him on it:No

That is it for now.If you want more let me know

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#68 Lochenzo
April 28 2013, 01:46PM
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@dougtheslug: As you saw from the Oilers this year, that depth is very important to a team's success. The fact that Detroit has been able to grow that talent through their system means that they don't have to overpay through free agency for similar players, meaning more cap room to retain your stars.

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#69 madjam
April 28 2013, 02:21PM
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Jasmine wrote:

Oilers need to stop their Lowe hatred. Lowe has been hated since the day he was hired. Fans wanted him fired the day he got hired. Lowe has been bashed for every trade he made. Lowe even received death threats for a trade.

To make matters worse, Oilers fans gave Tambi credit for hiring Stu MacGregor as head scout when it was Lowe. Lowe hired Stu MacGregor as head scout after the 2007 draft and Tambi was hired in 2008. The Lowe hatred has got to go.

Jasmine -you are confusing "constructive criticism " with hate for Lowe . Most still adorn Lowe the man and hockey player , but many are critical of Lowe the Pres. and the job he has done over the last seven years or so . Hate is inappropriate for most ! He is most responsible for our results and obviously they are not of a high level and a lot of criticism is rightly deserved - comes with the job like it or not . Results go up , criticism goes down . You want to pull the wool over your eyes go ahead , but don't expect others to follow your example.

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#70 madjam
April 28 2013, 02:32PM
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As a center is Gagner doing enough to remain there ? Probably not , and might be better off on wing . He's getting better each year but i'm not sold his all around game suits what we require of very good center .

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#71 NewAgeSys
April 28 2013, 02:56PM
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Spydyr wrote:

Yes I know how many points Gagner had. My question was: What exactly does Gagner, without the puck, bring to the team ?

Care to take a shot at that?

I will take a shot at that glass of purple kool-aid if you dont mind.

Sam Gagner brings the single most potent dose of NHL caliber offense we have on our roster.Sam Gagner brings leadership and a constellation of intangibles to ths roster.

Sam Gagner and players like him bring Stanley Cups to teams like ours.

Sam has carved a very solid reputation out for himself in the NHL,that intangible alone is of great value.

Sam is a veteran but not in terms of historical team accountability like Smyth and Horcs,Belanger,Schultz,Brown, ect. Sam is a Tweener and he doesnt have to answer for the Sins of the Fathers.

Because I dont think its our top 6 we need to bulk up at all,just insert as needed,I dont think Gagners going anywhere next year.

Without the puck Gagner brings Generalmanship, if it isnt a word it needs to be, because when the fighting gets toughest he is a leader who steps up above many others and makes things happen,he CAN make things happen against any system now,he has evolved cerebrally.Sam isnt just beating opponents one-on-one , he is dissecting opponents systems and optimising his linemates this way.

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#72 michael
April 28 2013, 03:04PM
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How come we have not heard these comments from DSF yet? With MacT in charge how long before we turn our top 6 into a bunch of checkers? Usually he comes up with that kind of drivel. I think Hall would make a great 4th line checker? If we could add Drouin I would be so happy.I think he has the compete to be an elite winger in the mold of EBS. Who made such a sick move in the 3rd period it made me jump off my couch.I thought he had it for certain.MacT is the GM for this team and all the haters can bite me because I believe in the guy and Howson. Tambo did little to imrove the Oilers.I give him credit for OKC. I give him credit for removing the deadweight off this team early on.But his ability to evaluate professional talent was lacking thus we saw his ultimate downfall.It wasn't the kids where he went wrong. MacT needs to bring in better talent than an Eager or Belanger etc.

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#73 Tony Montana
April 28 2013, 03:06PM
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EHH Team wrote:

I wish people would get off this idea of a mega trade for Weber. His contract has a cap hit of $7,857,143 though 2025-26, when he will be 40 years old. Nashville has already paid $14 Million or so with another signing bonus payment of $13 Million due July 1 (I think is the date). For the last three years, his salary will be $1 Million per year, and he likely will be retired by then, but his cap hit will continue.

As Nashville's performance this year shows, Weber, while being an exceptional defenceman, cannot do it alone. Further, if his performance drops off in five or six years when he turns 35, the team will have another five years to carry his cap hit: totally crippling if we also want to keep Hall, Yak and others.

He has a no trade clause, so the idea of trading him away for the last three or four years of his contract to a team requiring cap to meet the floor might not work as he would be able to veto any trade.

There must be better options to pursue.

No it won't. It isn't a +35 contract so his cap hit vanishes if he retires.

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#74 Eddie Edmonton
April 28 2013, 03:26PM
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NewAgeSys wrote:

I will take a shot at that glass of purple kool-aid if you dont mind.

Sam Gagner brings the single most potent dose of NHL caliber offense we have on our roster.Sam Gagner brings leadership and a constellation of intangibles to ths roster.

Sam Gagner and players like him bring Stanley Cups to teams like ours.

Sam has carved a very solid reputation out for himself in the NHL,that intangible alone is of great value.

Sam is a veteran but not in terms of historical team accountability like Smyth and Horcs,Belanger,Schultz,Brown, ect. Sam is a Tweener and he doesnt have to answer for the Sins of the Fathers.

Because I dont think its our top 6 we need to bulk up at all,just insert as needed,I dont think Gagners going anywhere next year.

Without the puck Gagner brings Generalmanship, if it isnt a word it needs to be, because when the fighting gets toughest he is a leader who steps up above many others and makes things happen,he CAN make things happen against any system now,he has evolved cerebrally.Sam isnt just beating opponents one-on-one , he is dissecting opponents systems and optimising his linemates this way.

Cocaine is a hell of a drug.!..

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#75 Spydyr
April 28 2013, 03:45PM
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Eddie Edmonton wrote:

Cocaine is a hell of a drug.!..

Hey,I was thinking there was some type of drug involved or not involved, be it as it may.

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#76 David S
April 28 2013, 03:54PM
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Spydyr wrote:

OK,

My perception:

Does he play good defensively: No

Does he have a good forecheck: No

Is he strong on the puck: No

Does he make his teammates better: No

Does he win one on one battles: No

Does he hit: No

Is he good at faceoffs: No

Has the team made the playoffs with him on it:No

That is it for now.If you want more let me know

Despite sucking as bad as you say he did, he still managed to be second overall in team scoring, despite going stone cold down the stretch.

If he did all the things you mentioned he'd be Sidney freaking Crosby. Instead he's a solid 2L player we'd have a hard time replacing.

Yeah. ~A total bust.~

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#77 Jeffff
April 28 2013, 03:54PM
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Jeffff wrote:

Look where Edmonton has finished

2009- 2010-- Last place 2010- 20 11- Last place 2011-2012- second last 2012-2013-

Fans and coaches have really overrated this team.

The Oilers have many holes you can't have a record like this without having big holes. 90% of this team is overrated.

You can do all the mental calculus and come up with excuses but the facts speak for themselves.

Fire Kevin Lowe

Another problem with delusional fans and organization it that people think the players they want to trade are worth a lot more than they are in reality.

You know why Gagner Hemsky Whitney and others have not been traded because no one is offering much.

Gagner and Hemsky every year they are going to be traded well ?

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#78 Spydyr
April 28 2013, 04:06PM
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David S wrote:

Despite sucking as bad as you say he did, he still managed to be second overall in team scoring, despite going stone cold down the stretch.

If he did all the things you mentioned he'd be Sidney freaking Crosby. Instead he's a solid 2L player we'd have a hard time replacing.

Yeah. ~A total bust.~

You mean stone cold when it mattered most.When the going got tough.

This whole discussion started by asking outside of points what does Gagner bring.Since you keep going back to his points and have not mentioned one other intangible.I guess he must bring nothing beyond points in your opinion.

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#79 Dangilitis
April 28 2013, 04:40PM
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Eddie Edmonton wrote:

Cocaine is a hell of a drug.!..

Love the Rick James reference...

For everyone debating about Gagner's merit -

My overall sense is that Gagner cares, that he brings offensive skill, but that ideally, we do need a bit of a different mix to the top 6 and Gagner on the wing wouldn't really solve any problems, other than pushing Paajarvi down the depth chart (and despite the optimistic 2nd half for MPS at ~0.5 ppg it is a gamble to trust MPS will bring consistent offense on 2nd line next year).

Problem is that Gagner is committed to helping this team, as far as he lets on. He is not the ideal #2C, but these players are hard to find, so Oilers would need a means of replacing him and options are limited.

1. A trade for Gagner (+/or Hemsky) with a more useful 2nd line center coming back. Just don't see it happening. We could try gambling skill for size, but that doesn't always work out. E.g. Would Umberger really fare better than Gagner? One would hope that MacT could take a blue chip D prospect (team's strength) + Gagner +/- draft pick and turn into better Center (who isn't going to Pronger us), but I don't see this happening without the Oilers ending up with a more costly or older center (e.g. Lecavalier). I fear we would have to give up some very important assets for a #2C (as an aside, I hope Gregor stops calling for Yak's head in exchange for coke machines). Despite this great statistical season for Gagner, he alone would not be enough to bring a truly great #2C back, or else it wouldn't be an upgrade...

2. UFA market: not favorable (unless you think Roy or Ribeiro are a better version of the same size player)

3. Drafting: Unless they win the lottery (and even if they do, I still take Jones over centers), no Oilers' drafted center should be even attempting a 2nd line center role next year, so this won't help us in 2013-14. I hope that the Oil take the BPA in the 1st round, but should pick a Center if they are on the fence between 2, because this player may eventually replace Gagner (eventually aka NOT next year), and the D cupboards are relatively strong (purely from a prospects perspective - make that clear!)

4. Offer sheets (double offer sheet teams): also cost us assets, but are a potential route and its always easier for a GM to give up an unknown rather than a tangible asset (e.g roster player or player in the system). Also means an overpay and a need to shed salary (possibly giving Horcoff an early exit, which then creates a #3 C hole...)

So there are creative options, but Oilers have more important needs than an upgrade on Gagner right now, like fixing the defense, and may have to use their assets to address these needs first. Of course, if Gagner thinks he is >5mil/yr, then he puts the team in an awful position as they will be forced to trade him or lose him to offer sheet. But that's on Tambellowe for not signing him longer term last year.

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#80 Saytalk
April 28 2013, 04:43PM
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So now Gagner is a solid 2L (has he ever even played left wing?) and he "isnt just beating opponents one-on-one , he is dissecting opponents systems and optimising his linemates this way." LOL

Spydyr's post #67 correctly answered all of the questions I've had regarding Gagner. I'm struggling to find the evidence behind the other posts in support of Sam.

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#81 Dangilitis
April 28 2013, 04:54PM
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Spydyr wrote:

OK,

My perception:

Does he play good defensively: No

Does he have a good forecheck: No

Is he strong on the puck: No

Does he make his teammates better: No

Does he win one on one battles: No

Does he hit: No

Is he good at faceoffs: No

Has the team made the playoffs with him on it:No

That is it for now.If you want more let me know

To answer these questions more objectively, Spydyr, my thoughts (and as I already mentioned, I would not be sad if Gagner is outta here, for the right return and with a capable #2C waiting in the wings

1. Does he play good defensively: (No) - Not this year, he was definitely a bit of a mess. But numbers show he was one of the better players last year. Is this a coaching systems problem? Copper and Blue seemed to think so, and they make a solid case that the centers are being hung out to dry by the wingers, almost seemingly as an order by Kreuger. RNH fared better in spite of injury, with better linemates but against better competition.

2. Does he have a good forecheck: (No) - Hall is best by country mile, then amongst the top 2 lines, him and MPS would have been tied for 2nd this year. Not really saying much, though.

3. Is he strong on the puck: (No) - mostly agreed, because he can be but is inconsistent in doing so.

4. Does he make his teammates better: (No) - for anyone other than Hall would the answer have been yes this season? He certainly has, at times, made teammates better. Issue again is consistency. Made teammates better this year on the PP, for sure, but a bit of luck in his favor.

5. Does he win one on one battles: (No) - see 3 above. But you're kind of duplicating questions

6. Does he hit: (No) - Actually, he ranked 243/545 among forwards with 35 hits. Clustered in this area are Tavares, Staal, Datsyuk, Couture, Backstrom, Eberle, and Brandon Sutter. I didn't realize hitting was a pre-requisite to being a good player, and neither do these players. 25 hits this season for Toews, Hall and Seguin, and I would love one of each, even "sans hits".

7. Is he good at faceoffs: (No) - who can argue with this. Likely isn't getting better. If his all around game was better, though, and RNH could win draws, then this would be a non-issue (e.g. Getzlaf)

8.Has the team made the playoffs with him on it: (No) - less years in the NHL, but an awful argument to make because it could then be applied to Hall and Eberle. One player does not make a team, and Gagner's linemates before the "rebuild" was proclaimed by management were sadly far worse than they are now.

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#82 David S
April 28 2013, 05:22PM
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Funny. Last time I looked games were won by scoring, directly measured by goals and assists. Sam Gagner was #2 on the Oilers in that department.

Unless you can get a replacement that brings at least equal in production, you lose the trade.

He's trending to be a solid second line, 65 point player. What more do you want?

I know some of you guys like fights and GINORMOUS THUNDERIN' CHECKS but scoring wins you games.

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#83 DSF
April 28 2013, 06:02PM
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@David S

Scoring also loses you games if its the other team scoring.

Sam Gagner:

GFON/60 2.51

GAON/60 3.31

+- ON/60 - 0.81 (12th best among Oiler forwards.

Gagner can't play defense AT ALL.

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#84 John Chambers
April 28 2013, 06:13PM
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On Gagner -

Here's a guy who could really have success if paired with an elite scorer (Hall or Yak) as well as a veteran puck-possession winger. But at $4.5M+, my feeling is that there are a lot of guys who would succeed under those circumstances. Fact of the matter is the guy is lousy on the puck and on draws, bleeds chances defensively, but is looking for compensation the ignores his negative attributes but puts his .7 ppg on a pedestal.

However, until we develop Monaghan or Lindholm into that guy, or unless we sign the only C on the UFA market who can out chance top players - that being Weiss -, or until we move Hall to C, our lack of depth puts Gagner in the driver's seat for negotiations ...

The book move therefore is: Flip him for a quality young D, and move Hall to C. Draft Monaghan and have him earn his way up the depth chart.

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#85 rickithebear
April 28 2013, 07:31PM
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@DSF

Might want to look at his PK league rank (GA/60) for first two unit(1.40+ min) centres #2C #6FWD.

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#86 morgie99
April 28 2013, 11:08PM
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Next up, is Connor McJesus. wrote:

Kids, now listen. ^^^This^^^ is what happens when you say yes to "The Dope". It's not too late, there's still hope for you to turn out better than Jasmine.

Stay in school and off the dope.

It's not the dope, just don't be like Jasmine :)

unless your name is slats of course hahaha

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#87 David S
April 28 2013, 11:55PM
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DSF wrote:

Scoring also loses you games if its the other team scoring.

Sam Gagner:

GFON/60 2.51

GAON/60 3.31

+- ON/60 - 0.81 (12th best among Oiler forwards.

Gagner can't play defense AT ALL.

I don't entirely disagree with you. I'm suggesting Sam gets moved to the wing, which would take the heat off of him to be so defensively minded.

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#88 Spydyr
April 29 2013, 07:54AM
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David S wrote:

Funny. Last time I looked games were won by scoring, directly measured by goals and assists. Sam Gagner was #2 on the Oilers in that department.

Unless you can get a replacement that brings at least equal in production, you lose the trade.

He's trending to be a solid second line, 65 point player. What more do you want?

I know some of you guys like fights and GINORMOUS THUNDERIN' CHECKS but scoring wins you games.

Funny, My original question was:

What exactly does Gagner, without the puck, bring to the team ?

Without the puck you understand that means points don't matter. Right?

Letting in goals cost you games. He is a factor in more goals against than goals for.

He brings nothing without the puck, nothing.

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#89 ghostofberanek
April 29 2013, 09:39AM
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@Spydyr

I respectfully disagree on your take on Gagner. This kid will go above and beyond to try and make something happen. If he's in a slump, he'll fight someone much bigger than him, which shows heart. To my eye, he was a very effective player on the penalty kill as well.

I see Gagner as "Doug Weight lite" which isn't a bad thing to have around in my opinion.

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#90 Spydyr
April 29 2013, 09:58AM
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ghostofberanek wrote:

I respectfully disagree on your take on Gagner. This kid will go above and beyond to try and make something happen. If he's in a slump, he'll fight someone much bigger than him, which shows heart. To my eye, he was a very effective player on the penalty kill as well.

I see Gagner as "Doug Weight lite" which isn't a bad thing to have around in my opinion.

I respect your opinion also but tell me other than one fight a year. A handful of shifts on the penalty kill. What does he bring to the table outside of points ?

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#91 ghostofberanek
April 29 2013, 10:09AM
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@Spydyr

That's obviously a tough question to answer. I think you could ask that question of any player and have a tough time. What does Zach Parise do when he's not putting up points? How about Patrick Kane? When a player doesn't have the puck, his goal is to get the puck back. He clearly can't knock most players off the puck with his size, so he's forced to use positioning and anticipation. These are things that take time to learn, and he still has lots of time to learn it.

I think you just have a natural hate on for Gagner, and you'll never be convinced otherwise. You minimalize his accomplishments while magnifying his deficiencies.

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#92 Spydyr
April 29 2013, 10:24AM
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ghostofberanek wrote:

That's obviously a tough question to answer. I think you could ask that question of any player and have a tough time. What does Zach Parise do when he's not putting up points? How about Patrick Kane? When a player doesn't have the puck, his goal is to get the puck back. He clearly can't knock most players off the puck with his size, so he's forced to use positioning and anticipation. These are things that take time to learn, and he still has lots of time to learn it.

I think you just have a natural hate on for Gagner, and you'll never be convinced otherwise. You minimalize his accomplishments while magnifying his deficiencies.

I don't hate someone I have never met. That is asinine.

He does however have many deficiencies as a hockey player. IMO the team would be better off moving him and getting a more rounded second line center.

Remember this all started by me asking what does he bring outside of points.Still no one has answered that question in a reasonable manner. So I will rest my case.

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