TRUE BLUE VOL 1

Lowetide
May 14 2013 08:59PM

This past NHL season, there were 60 defensemen who averaged more TOI per game than the top Oilers blueliner (Jeff Petry). The club has no top pairing, but rather five men who alternate between 18:30 and 21:54 a night. There is no "go to" guy--no top flight, complete defender--and that's a major job for Craig MacTavish.

THOSE GUYS ARE NEVER AVAILABLE!

Sure they are. Over the last 10 NHL seasons, Edmonton has employed several "complete" NHL defensemen who played major minutes in all three disciplines (EV, PP, PK). The overwhelming majority of them came via trade: an Oiler defenseman for another defender.

  • 2002-03: Janne Niinimaa (acquired from Philly for Dan McGillis plus); Eric Brewer (acquired from the Islanders in the Roman Hamrlik deal).
  • 2003-04: Brewer again
  • 2005-06: Chris Pronger (acquired for a package of D including Brewer); Jaroslav Spacek (deadline pickup)
  • 2006-07: None.
  • 2007-08: Sheldon Souray (free agent signing); Joni Pitkanen (acquired for Lupul and Jason Smith)
  • 2008-09: Souray again; Lubomir Visnovsky (acquired for Stoll & Greene)
  • 2009-10: Ryan Whitney (acquired for Lubo, played only 19 games with team in 09-10)
  • 2010-11: Ryan Whitney again; Tom Gilbert (acquired as a prospect and brought along by team)
  • 2011-12: None
  • 2012-13: None

So, that's nine defenseman; none via draft (although that may change with Petry); one from free agency; 8 from trades, usually involving defensemen going the other way.

TRADE?

The Oilers have been able to add complete defensemen over the last decade, and the most effective way is by trade. The one free agent signing (Souray) was an overpay, and the club can't afford a major cap misstep if they plan on keeping all of these lottery picks and #1 overalls.

A trade that involves a current Oiler defenseman of some ability--say from the group that includes Smid, Petry and Nick Schultz--is probably the better plan in acquiring that 25+ minute defender to anchor the defense for the rest of this decade.

WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?

Complete defensemen are a very rare, valuable item. A team like the Oilers is extremely unlikely to get one without giving up a capable (if lesser) defender in return. In our next installment of this series, I'll look at free agents who may be able to help bridge the gap and a select group of defensemen who may be worth the enormous assets required to procure them for the Oilers.

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Lowetide has been one of the Oilogosphere's shining lights for over a century. You can check him out here at OilersNation and at lowetide.ca. He is also the host of Lowdown with Lowetide weekday mornings 10-noon on Team 1260.
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#51 Josh Oiler
May 14 2013, 10:56PM
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Dutchscooter wrote:

I agree that he will get traded, just not until they get some mileage out of the money they have already spent.

Say, after next year but before any bonus is paid.

Yeah I think Dutchscooter is sniffing glue. He doesn't know hockey- hockey politics or hockey economics.

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#52 Hisam Saleh
May 14 2013, 11:07PM
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@Dutchscooter

Josh Oiler is one of the greatest hockey minds on any threads/posts on any hockey website in the world.

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#53 madjam
May 14 2013, 11:07PM
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DSF wrote:

I've been around the world...several times.

While good teams build from the back end out and down the middle...the Oilers have been drafting a bunch of wingers. The easiest players to find.

Stupid.

The Oilers have 3...count em...3 NHL quality defensemen.

Even middling teams like the Maple Leafs have 7.

Centres?

Two...and one of them has huge deficiencies.

Dumb.

Maybe the next three years they'll do it your way ? Certainly has not worked Oilers way to date . Happen to agree with your assessment , but I would have taken at least Hall . Eberle was a calculated risk that turned out well - not a fluke . Club has had 3-4 years to makeover the defence and centers with little to no progression by draft or trade - unacceptable . Goalies are also still up in the air . Not a very good or efficient rebuild no doubt . Room for improvement , I don't think it can continue to get worse or remain the same .

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#54 Josh Oiler
May 14 2013, 11:10PM
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Dutchscooter wrote:

I'm sorry, I can't hear your petty, schoolboy comments. I must have Kevin Lowe's Stanley Cup rings in my ears.

Why are you copying Patrick Roy?

Do u know Kevin Lowe? Did he really lend you his 6 rings?

And if he did, why would u have them in your ears?

And how could you fit all six in your ears. Those rings are really large?

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#55 Maggie the Monkey
May 14 2013, 11:13PM
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@DSF

DSF, who do you think Edmonton should have taken with the first overall picks in 2010, 2011, and 2012?

From where I sit, the right calls were made with Hall, Nugent-Hopkins and Yakupov, even this early in their young careers. Rather than discount or argue with your statements in this post I'd rather that you clarify what your choices would have been as G.M.

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#56 Chilli Dog
May 14 2013, 11:29PM
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OilDieHard wrote:

we might actually be desperate, but why should we show it to other teams by overpaying for Yandle or anyone else? 7th pick, Hemsky, Omark (meh), and Gernat or Marincin? i say no.

Lets see.....30th, 30th,29th, and 24th. I thnk that it's pretty clear the Oilers are desperate (and the rest of the league knows it). Yandle get's the team 50+ points, 23 minutes a night, is only 27 and is signed for another 2 years. We get rid of dead weight and prospects and don't touch our core.

Phase 2 is a gritty forward in free agency....my vote is Horton (although Clarkson's also an option.

1st line - Horton, Nuge, Eb's 2nd line - Hall, Gag's, Yak 3rd line - MPS, Horcoff, Jones 4th line - whatever

1st D - Yandle, Petry 2nd D - Smid, JS 3rd D - NS, Fistric (or Potter)

Goalie - Duby, ABK (anyone but Khabybullin).

It's not there yet but it's getting closer.

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#57 Taylor Gang
May 14 2013, 11:49PM
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And the Weber talks begin again. Put yourself in Poille's shoes for a second. You're dealing with a team with 4, that's right, FOUR (not exactly a small number in this context) future superstars, and your team is dealing arguably the best defenseman in the NHL. Then the GM of Edmonton offers you an undersized centre who can't win draws, a player playing in the Swiss League (granted with a lot of points) who has one or two highlight reel goals. And to top the cake, in order to replace him, a bottom pairing defenseman. Would you seriously look at this package and be pleased with that?

In other words, if Poille made that deal he would almost certainly lose his job. My asking price would be either Eberle or Yakupov, Petry, and a B-level prospect, which by the way I wouldn't pay as MacT. When people say top pairing defenseman, they don't exactly mean franchise defenseman. Seabrook is hardly a franchise defenseman, and you could argue that Keith isn't either. But they are both top pairing defensemen. People have brought up an interesting point in that maybe there's a deal to be made in Vancouver. Anyone picturing Edler or Hamhuis in Oiler silks?

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#58 Rocknrolla
May 14 2013, 11:55PM
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RexLibris wrote:

I doubt this option is available as I expect a contract announcement anytime now, but...

Offer sheet on Pietrangelo? The Blues have tonnes of cap space, but also have a number of RFAs in Shattenkirk, Cole, Steward and Berglund. Putting a pinch on one area of the roster may open up other options, the way the Sharks did with Hjalmarsson in Chicago and ended up getting Niemi.

Free-agency is a bust this year, trade options are interesting but let's recognize that it has been a long time since this franchise won a trade.

Offer sheets are a dirty business, but it may come down to it in the end. Unless MacTavish can slip some Rohypnol into Chiarelli's drink over the summer and the two have a long conversation about Doug Hamilton's future.

I think you double offer sheet. Or go after Shattenkirk.

They have to match on Pietrangelo, and he likely will get $6M so that's 4 first rounders.

I like this summer for the offer sheet though. With cap going down....you could also give the GM a call and say "hey, we are contemplating an offer sheet here...can you work with us on a trade?"

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#59 kgo
May 15 2013, 12:04AM
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Rocknrolla wrote:

I think you double offer sheet. Or go after Shattenkirk.

They have to match on Pietrangelo, and he likely will get $6M so that's 4 first rounders.

I like this summer for the offer sheet though. With cap going down....you could also give the GM a call and say "hey, we are contemplating an offer sheet here...can you work with us on a trade?"

I think you can go as high as 6.3M before you get to 4 1st rounder threshold, it would be 1st and 3rd...

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#60 Eddie Edmonton
May 15 2013, 12:20AM
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There is two things all Oiler fans would like, one is Weber and the other is for the Oilers to buy out a big contract.;-')

Weber makes almost $8mill for a lot of years to come, years Katz can afford.

Oilers will take Weber at $8 million per, and they will send Nashville;

Gagner at $4ishmillper, Petry at $2.5ishmillper, Hartikanen at $1.5ishmillper.

Along with the 3, the Oilers will also include Hemsky and his last year of the deal. Next year's trade deadline, Nashville will turn Hemsky into a 2nd round pick.

If the Preds are not interested in the Hemsky sell, look for the Oilers to include one of their yound defensive prospects.

The icing on the cake, of course, will be the Oilers 1st round pick.

The deal would give the Oilers the #1 d-man that everyone and their grandmother wants. It will give the Predators a future and hope. Sh!t, the Oilers maybe even throw in Omark's right, to replace Erat.;-')

If there is a team out there that can throw something Nashvilles way for the future for Weber, that team is the Edmonton Oilers.

Katz and Co. can afford to take the gamble financially, seeing how Katz is the biggest drug dealer in Canada. They wouldn't even mind if they had to buy Weber out later, if things dont work out, they'll just buy him out with the money saved on the arena.

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#61 Eddie Edmonton
May 15 2013, 12:26AM
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Fisher wrote:

Did he ask about the college guy when there is clearly an amazing blonde with no name to discuss? WOW, mistake.

Maybe he is a h%m%se%ual and has no interest in an "amazing blonde".

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#62 GVBlackhawk
May 15 2013, 01:38AM
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Walter Sobchak wrote:

I don't think it will be close to that, STL needs to make the Playoffs, not to mention STL is close to being a true Cup contender.

STL will retain those players.

If you offer sheet the Blue's, they cfan turn around and do the same to the Oilers and with STL cap space do you really want to explore that?

If they match the offer sheets for their RFA's, then they will not have the cap space to offer sheet the Oilers' future RFA's. In addition, the Blues ownership is not willing to go into the red just to 'get back' at Edmonton.

Offer sheet wars between teams are not common. Oilers management must not be afraid to use all the tools at their disposal, including offer sheets.

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#63 Walter Sobchak
May 15 2013, 04:21AM
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GVBlackhawk wrote:

If they match the offer sheets for their RFA's, then they will not have the cap space to offer sheet the Oilers' future RFA's. In addition, the Blues ownership is not willing to go into the red just to 'get back' at Edmonton.

Offer sheet wars between teams are not common. Oilers management must not be afraid to use all the tools at their disposal, including offer sheets.

I'm not saying it is common, I guess I miss spoke about STL turning around and doing the same, but the Oilers have gone down this road before with limited success.

All I really mean is it opens up the invitation for other teams to do the same.

STL has cap space to fend off an offer sheet from most teams if they so choose too, which I'm sure they do, you don’t assemble a team like that only to watch its key players leave?

EDM does not.

Although, it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if Nashville turns around in two years and offer sheets the crap out of Philly.

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#64 madjam
May 15 2013, 05:52AM
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How many deals might Mac.T been already offered , and tucked away in his drawer waiting for approval date ?

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#65 madjam
May 15 2013, 06:22AM
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Lets Make A Deal ? P.K.Subban for J.Schultz and swap of first round picks with Montreal . We draft Subbans brother for goal . We draft E.Comrie second round to keep B.Comrie interested in taking over team if Katz sells team .

For our country fans - we get Fisher(Underwood) and a second rounder from Nash. for Gagner and Hemsky . We buy out Weber for Petry , Musil and first round pick 2014 .

For Couturier fans we trade Hartekainen ,Horcoff and Teubert .

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#66 Hammers
May 15 2013, 06:30AM
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Of coarse Weber would be nice (can't be traded for at the draft due to when his contract was signed ) but there are plenty of player improvements out there . Look at teams deep in "D" (Columbus for 1 Tyutin)and look at teams close to the $64 mill that may have to move a defenceman ( Vancouver , Boston ). My guess is this area is what McT looks at .

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#67 The Beaker
May 15 2013, 07:00AM
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@Eddie Edmonton

You mean next years first round pick?

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#68 OilDieHard
May 15 2013, 07:17AM
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Chilli Dog wrote:

Lets see.....30th, 30th,29th, and 24th. I thnk that it's pretty clear the Oilers are desperate (and the rest of the league knows it). Yandle get's the team 50+ points, 23 minutes a night, is only 27 and is signed for another 2 years. We get rid of dead weight and prospects and don't touch our core.

Phase 2 is a gritty forward in free agency....my vote is Horton (although Clarkson's also an option.

1st line - Horton, Nuge, Eb's 2nd line - Hall, Gag's, Yak 3rd line - MPS, Horcoff, Jones 4th line - whatever

1st D - Yandle, Petry 2nd D - Smid, JS 3rd D - NS, Fistric (or Potter)

Goalie - Duby, ABK (anyone but Khabybullin).

It's not there yet but it's getting closer.

all i'm saying i guess is offering a top draft pick, a top roster player, and a top developmental player is way too much for Yandle, and i don't want to see the Oil blow out multiple assets for one player who may or may not actually improve the team on his own.

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#69 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
May 15 2013, 07:51AM
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Dutchscooter wrote:

No, I'm using my brain.

Weber got a $13M signing bonus + $1M salary for 48 games this year + $13M bonus due July 1, which is also the earliest date Nashville could trade him. That equals $27M for 48 games.

Don't get me wrong, if MacT can twist David Poile's arm to trade for Weber, I'd jump for joy.

But reality is, no owner is going to shell out that much money just to trade him away for someone's spare parts.

BTW, if you DO know someone willing to pay $27M for that, I'm available most weekends!

Perhaps there's a desire from that ownership group to get out from the other 84 million he'll be due over the coming yrs, no.

Sometimes teams at the mercy of revenue sharing have to cut their losses. Having that much resources tied up in one player must be hurting the opportunity to upgrade their top 6.

Getting out from that 84 million dollar commitment, and putting those resources towards multiple player to help your top 6 would help the Predators short and long term.

How about using that part of your brain.

Players are moved for many different reasons, financial,personal,personality conficts. Dollars to donuts Weber is on the move within 18 months. 27 is chump change compared to that other 84 coming due.

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#70 onlyoil
May 15 2013, 08:12AM
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Maggie the Monkey wrote:

DSF, who do you think Edmonton should have taken with the first overall picks in 2010, 2011, and 2012?

From where I sit, the right calls were made with Hall, Nugent-Hopkins and Yakupov, even this early in their young careers. Rather than discount or argue with your statements in this post I'd rather that you clarify what your choices would have been as G.M.

Well, I would like to take a shot at that. With his logic the highest ranked dman before the draft was Fowler, so I guess in 2010 it should have been him instead of Hall. 2011 it should have been Larsson instead of Nuge. 2012 should have been Murray, instead the Oilers took Yak. Everyone, everywhere, can see if the Oilers would have consented with dsf before they made their selections, this team would have been a contender by now.

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#71 Will
May 15 2013, 08:38AM
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It's nice to be reminded that big minute munching all around defenders can be had, and that they are around the league to go our and get. No the only question remains is who will we get? And more importantly, how long before that person is either injured or deemed not part of the rebuild going forward and then is run out of town?

I think Mac T is going to build a very grinder heavy team just like the one he coached, only now he also has the top end talent to go beyond the bubble teams of the past.

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#72 OilDieHard
May 15 2013, 09:18AM
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onlyoil wrote:

Well, I would like to take a shot at that. With his logic the highest ranked dman before the draft was Fowler, so I guess in 2010 it should have been him instead of Hall. 2011 it should have been Larsson instead of Nuge. 2012 should have been Murray, instead the Oilers took Yak. Everyone, everywhere, can see if the Oilers would have consented with dsf before they made their selections, this team would have been a contender by now.

i agree, but then, without Hall, Nuge and Yak, who scores goals for us?

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#73 Sox and Oil
May 15 2013, 09:56AM
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That's Yandle in the pic right? Was he playing against PeeWees? He looks 6'6, I didn't think he was that big.

Anyways he does seems like the most likely trade candidate (not that he'd be my first choice but that means nothing). My hairball trade scenario sends them PRV (or Harti) and Peckham and a possible pick.

Yandle will be a much better Whitney but still not the answer to our prayers. He'll play 3/4 at best evens and top PP unit.

Maybe RK can sweet talk Streit on July 5th.

Adding Streit and Yandle alone will ensure more wins season.

Oh and I agree 100% there's no way Weber gets dealt this offseason after Nashville commited that much money with these signing bonus. Give up the dream. Plus he'd cost the moon and deserves it.

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#74 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
May 15 2013, 10:04AM
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mayorblaine wrote:

stop. just stop it. please stop.

the term of the Weber contract alone, regardless of Katz pocket size, should be enough to dissuade most people.

Oiler management can (whether they will remains to be seen) properly fill the voids in backend without tying themselves in to such a long term.

Suter was a better option and his contract sucks now to.

#NoWeber

#YESWEBER

Get used to it. The fact that the Predators had the premier blueliner in the NHL and finished 26th must say they're headed towards another rebuild, a part of which Weber wants no part of.

So cut the "Weber's not moving bullship!"

He may not be an Oiler, but he's certainly leaving Nashville in the next 18 months. So stop it with all your BS, please just stop it now.

SHEA WEBER SHEA WEBER SHEA WEBER SHEA WEBER WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

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#75 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
May 15 2013, 10:16AM
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@Taylor Gang

2 butter soft defenseman?

You ever think the Canucks are wanting to get tougher to play against and that's why these two creampuffs are available. Edler and Hamhuis, fawk no!

We have enough hamburger on the blueline right now. Oilers need some steak, not hamburger types like you suggest. Let Gillis find someone else to do his house cleaning for him.

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#76 Will
May 15 2013, 10:24AM
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With Foresburg and now likely Barkov in Nashville, along with the pieces they already have. I don't think Nashville is in a for a long rebuild.

They need maybe one or two goal scorers and they become competitive again.

This is where I'd look to find some help on D. We are loaded with small skilled prospects who can score who will likely never make it into the Oiler line up because of our current crop of highly skilled undersized forwards.

So I think Nashville, especially since they have a Vezina goalie, would be willing to part with some of its top end D not named Weber for one of our young gifted forwards.

Maybe a guy like Roman Josi who shoots left, has some offensive upside and is still pretty young so is likely to get better. He also is a decent size and will likely fill out.

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#77 Will
May 15 2013, 10:31AM
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Furthermore, I'd look to another team that has struggled with scoring for our 1b goalie option. Perhaps there's a package deal there where we can send Gagner and a young scoring prospect to St. Louis in return for a 1B goalie and a centre with some more size and grit but less offensive talent. Say maybe Alexander Steen, he has had two years of lower point production in a row for the Blues, it may be time for a change of scenery.

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#78 Sox and Oil
May 15 2013, 10:39AM
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@Will

I don't know who all these small skilled prospects are... in the pipeline we have lots of D and coke machines. Josi would be alright but he wouldn't exactly help the oil for a few years at best. We need to address the top pairing and Nashville won't help us there.

St Louis could be a option or Philly and Tampa are quite tight to the cap for next year.

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#79 Sox and Oil
May 15 2013, 10:44AM
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Will wrote:

Furthermore, I'd look to another team that has struggled with scoring for our 1b goalie option. Perhaps there's a package deal there where we can send Gagner and a young scoring prospect to St. Louis in return for a 1B goalie and a centre with some more size and grit but less offensive talent. Say maybe Alexander Steen, he has had two years of lower point production in a row for the Blues, it may be time for a change of scenery.

Agree with you on this. I could see Halak shaking loose this offseason and they may only want prospects or picks in return. Question is can we or should we outbid Calgary (or Philly if they buy out Bryz)

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#80 mayorblaine
May 15 2013, 10:57AM
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Next up, is Connor McJesus. wrote:

#YESWEBER

Get used to it. The fact that the Predators had the premier blueliner in the NHL and finished 26th must say they're headed towards another rebuild, a part of which Weber wants no part of.

So cut the "Weber's not moving bullship!"

He may not be an Oiler, but he's certainly leaving Nashville in the next 18 months. So stop it with all your BS, please just stop it now.

SHEA WEBER SHEA WEBER SHEA WEBER SHEA WEBER WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

never claimed he wasn't moving. he may. just not here please.

i see you have your spoon out today. nice to see.

#NoWeber

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#81 Will
May 15 2013, 11:01AM
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Sox and Oil wrote:

Agree with you on this. I could see Halak shaking loose this offseason and they may only want prospects or picks in return. Question is can we or should we outbid Calgary (or Philly if they buy out Bryz)

Well I mean Acribello and Rajala (spelling) have been pretty impressive in the AHL and are leading the Barrons to another championship. Those would be the prospects I'm talking about. I think Nashville already has some established Veteran leadership, great depth at goal and defence, so with their two big name prospects coming in, I wouldn't be surprised if they were looking to add to their younger forward core that will eventually be the team's centre piece. Barkov and Forseburgh are both big individuals, so getting a small winger with a bunch of skill likely wouldn't be out of the question.

As for Calgary, I don't know I think they are pretty high on their goalie prospects, and even though they have a ton of cap room to overspend on big name free agents, I doubt they go after one of the Blues, instead I think they overpay for Smith. Or who knows, maybe they'll pick up Fluery.

I personally would want Briz here as he's too much of a side show, has already said if he was going north of the border he'd rather just go home and play in Russia, and he is way overpaid. I'd take Dubnyk over Briz any day.

What I like about this article and the point I'm trying to make is that there are plenty of options out there over and above the Smith, Yandle, Striet, Clarckson, Horton, conversations. And I think Mac T both knows this, and will pursue those options effectively. Fingers crossed on this one.

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#82 Will
May 15 2013, 11:02AM
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EDIT

Would not want Briz

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#83 RexLibris
May 15 2013, 11:27AM
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Walter Sobchak wrote:

Yandle seems like an ideal target.

PHX is cash straped and wont want a lot of salary coming back.

I dont think you need a first, I also think you might have to give something better then Hemsky and Omark.

Yandle would be a good target, but I'm not sure Maloney lets him walk without getting cheap talent in return, and the Oilers don't have enough of it to start sending it away. I'm not saying a trade isn't possible, but I'm trying to think of what assets the Oilers would part with that would interest the Coyotes and there isn't that long a list.

Your call on St. Louis having lots of cap space is correct, and I noted it in my comment, but you have to start somewhere and there are some teams operating on a budget independent of the salary cap. St. Louis has been in the past and if you force them to overpay in one area it might pry somebody else loose.

I would rather the Oilers don't target RFAs through offer sheets, but I think we have to at least recognize that it is an option that management might have to explore.

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#84 Wax Man Riley
May 15 2013, 11:33AM
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2004Z06 wrote:

No chance Weber is moved prior to the 15th. As per the offer sheet matching, he cannot be traded until the 24th or later!

He also receives a 13 million dollar cheque on July 1st.

Why would Nashville trade him after handing over that cash three weeks earlier unless the cash was coming back in the deal?

Weber will not be traded until at least the deadline in 2014!

This just needs to be posted again for all the Weber-getters

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#85 Will
May 15 2013, 11:36AM
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I don't see Edmonton targeting any RFA's until Nuge, Yak, and JSchultz have all signed long term deals.

It will be interesting to see if Philly lets any of their young talent reach RFA status as I'd imagine it's open season on offer sheets for any of them after this year. I would say Calgary would be open to the same scenario if they had any RFA's worth an offer sheet.

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#86 SrCain
May 15 2013, 12:14PM
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Next up, is Connor McJesus. wrote:

#YESWEBER

Get used to it. The fact that the Predators had the premier blueliner in the NHL and finished 26th must say they're headed towards another rebuild, a part of which Weber wants no part of.

So cut the "Weber's not moving bullship!"

He may not be an Oiler, but he's certainly leaving Nashville in the next 18 months. So stop it with all your BS, please just stop it now.

SHEA WEBER SHEA WEBER SHEA WEBER SHEA WEBER WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

you mean the extremely expensive premier dman in the NHL who wasn't even nominated for the Norris this yr right? funny that his old D partner was though.

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#87 John
May 15 2013, 12:18PM
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Maggie the Monkey wrote:

DSF, who do you think Edmonton should have taken with the first overall picks in 2010, 2011, and 2012?

From where I sit, the right calls were made with Hall, Nugent-Hopkins and Yakupov, even this early in their young careers. Rather than discount or argue with your statements in this post I'd rather that you clarify what your choices would have been as G.M.

He has said in a previous post he would have picked Seguin, Huberdeau and Galchenyuk

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#88 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
May 15 2013, 12:26PM
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@SrCain

That's reflective of the direction both of those organizations are headed. Look what Suter has to help him in Minnesota, now look at what Weber has to help him in Nashville. Preds are done like dinner, without both pillars on the blueline (along with Rinne in goal), to compensate for the rest of that lineup.

Have you learned nothing from DSF's training seminars here SrCain?

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#89 Tikkanese
May 15 2013, 12:54PM
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Can anyone explain the Petry love? He's a #5-8 on a good team. He's only been a #3-4 here because of how terrible we are on D.

Why he is being pencilled in as our 1B next year by some of you is beyond me. Almost zero offence, really no signs of any to come and not a "great" puck mover for that matter. Just OK on the defensive side, not a barn burner by any stretch. Not tough either.

We basically have three of the same in Smid, Petry and N. Schultz. I'd give Smid the edge at being the best of the three of them. Petry and N. Schultz are pretty much Mac-T dubbed non factors. One is probably on the go.

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#90 DukeEarl
May 15 2013, 11:16PM
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Anybody who thinks Tom Gilbert was a "D-man" has never played any hockey in their lifetime! I've seen pylon's play better defense then Tom Gilbert! Happy Efmonton got rid of him! I would have happily traded him for a 7th rounder!

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#91 YEGFan
May 15 2013, 11:34PM
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TLDR: Rajala, Marincin, and a 2nd round pick for Shattenkirk. The 7th pick (Nurse?), N. Schultz, and a 3rd rounder for McDonagh.

Stop suggesting Shea Weber. Jonathan Willis did a great article explaining why it's insane: http://oilersnation.com/2013/5/1/why-it-seems-unlikely-that-the-nashville-predators-would-trade-shea-weber . His cap hit would cripple the Oilers the way they are building out their team anyway. Nashville is building around him if they rebuild. They have him locked up and he is unique, he is worth more to a team in need of a number one defenseman than insane packages. Every reason you want him on the Oilers is a reason Nashville wants him, and you are kidding yourself if you think they are considering a painful 6+ year rebuild there. Give it up.

Yandle is an interesting suggestion but I also do not think they will move him. Phoenix has him for a reasonable contract and he has a valuable skill set for them. I think you need to over pay significantly to talk Phoenix out of keeping that player at that contract.

Signing Streit seems like a long shot to me too. Captain, promising young team, long history, there are too many reasons for him to stay. It's more likely than Yandle or Weber, but still a very low chance.

Pietrangelo is a similar situation to Weber. People around the league see him as a special talent. The type of player that when you have you build around. To get him moved requires an overpay with potential to provide a similarly special talent. I think St. Louis would be justified to value him at the same level the Senators value Karlsson. The point? You need to ridiculously overpay a club with cap room to trade their best young player. I do however agree that St. Louis is in a position to consider trading one of their many integral RFAs, which leads me to...

Shattenkirk should not be offer sheeted, that will lead to a likely overpay in contract which could hurt the team badly in a year or two. The Oilers should trade for him. Defence is a position of strength for the Blues and they just added Bouwmeester as a strong #2 defenseman for at least next year. If they can get their hands on a defensive prospect that is not due big money soon but could end up at Shattenkirk’s level (entry level contract bargain) and some other low salary assets, they would probably move him. The #7 pick or Marincin should be the centre piece to this sort of deal. The kicker is that St. Louis has no 1st or 2nd round pick this year; some cap flexibility and high upside assets could land the Oilers a long term top pairing solution in Shattenkirk. A guess would be Rajala, Marincin, and a 2nd for Shattenkirk (they will probably want Klefbom instead but I think Marincin would still be enticing).

The other team I see in a very similar situation is the New York Rangers with Ryan McDonagh. This is motivated by the Rangers needing to pay three RFA forwards in their top six (they currently make less than 1M a year and are playing important minutes, Stepan is being used as a #1 centre, he’s getting a raise) and having Girardi and Del Zotto (both due new contracts in 2014) to be the top pairing. McDonagh would likely get at least 5M in the open market (Carle got 5.5M last year) and that is a lot for a 2nd pairing defenseman when you have two bargains locked up for next season. Again, no offer sheets, make the trade. Like this article says, I think the Rangers would want a player to go back the other way. They didn’t add a Jay Bouwmeester at the deadline. They will also want an asset that could turn into a McDonagh in a few years (entry level contract bargain). I think the 7th pick (Nurse?), N. Schultz, and a 3rd rounder is a decent place to start. I choose Schultz because he is worth less than Petry (the centre piece is #7), his contract is over when it’s time to pay Girardi and Del Zotto, and he will still be cheaper than what they probably have to pay McDonagh in 2013. The Rangers also have no 1st or 2nd round picks this year…

I know Marincin and #7 are nice assets to have, but I like the idea of negotiating with two young proven RFA’s to be the Oilers’ top defence pair a lot more.

On a slightly different note, I would look to trade Hemsky for a pick, the Oilers are severely overpaying their 2nd 3rd and 4th lines and all we hear on these boards is how that is the team’s weakness. It should be our strength. I’d hit up Columbus with that offer. They have 3 first rounders, two of which look to be pretty late. If you throw a late 1st round pick into the deal with Marincin for Shattenkirk instead of the 2nd rounder I think that looks a lot nicer. This also frees up the salary to actually be able to afford a player in the 2.5M range to move up and down the line up (a Bickell or a Stalberg). Read this article to see the inspiration for a lot of this post: http://www.coppernblue.com/2013/5/2/4286078/three-years

Thank you if you actually read my first post on here!

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#92 Taylor Gang
May 16 2013, 12:14AM
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YEGFan wrote:

TLDR: Rajala, Marincin, and a 2nd round pick for Shattenkirk. The 7th pick (Nurse?), N. Schultz, and a 3rd rounder for McDonagh.

Stop suggesting Shea Weber. Jonathan Willis did a great article explaining why it's insane: http://oilersnation.com/2013/5/1/why-it-seems-unlikely-that-the-nashville-predators-would-trade-shea-weber . His cap hit would cripple the Oilers the way they are building out their team anyway. Nashville is building around him if they rebuild. They have him locked up and he is unique, he is worth more to a team in need of a number one defenseman than insane packages. Every reason you want him on the Oilers is a reason Nashville wants him, and you are kidding yourself if you think they are considering a painful 6+ year rebuild there. Give it up.

Yandle is an interesting suggestion but I also do not think they will move him. Phoenix has him for a reasonable contract and he has a valuable skill set for them. I think you need to over pay significantly to talk Phoenix out of keeping that player at that contract.

Signing Streit seems like a long shot to me too. Captain, promising young team, long history, there are too many reasons for him to stay. It's more likely than Yandle or Weber, but still a very low chance.

Pietrangelo is a similar situation to Weber. People around the league see him as a special talent. The type of player that when you have you build around. To get him moved requires an overpay with potential to provide a similarly special talent. I think St. Louis would be justified to value him at the same level the Senators value Karlsson. The point? You need to ridiculously overpay a club with cap room to trade their best young player. I do however agree that St. Louis is in a position to consider trading one of their many integral RFAs, which leads me to...

Shattenkirk should not be offer sheeted, that will lead to a likely overpay in contract which could hurt the team badly in a year or two. The Oilers should trade for him. Defence is a position of strength for the Blues and they just added Bouwmeester as a strong #2 defenseman for at least next year. If they can get their hands on a defensive prospect that is not due big money soon but could end up at Shattenkirk’s level (entry level contract bargain) and some other low salary assets, they would probably move him. The #7 pick or Marincin should be the centre piece to this sort of deal. The kicker is that St. Louis has no 1st or 2nd round pick this year; some cap flexibility and high upside assets could land the Oilers a long term top pairing solution in Shattenkirk. A guess would be Rajala, Marincin, and a 2nd for Shattenkirk (they will probably want Klefbom instead but I think Marincin would still be enticing).

The other team I see in a very similar situation is the New York Rangers with Ryan McDonagh. This is motivated by the Rangers needing to pay three RFA forwards in their top six (they currently make less than 1M a year and are playing important minutes, Stepan is being used as a #1 centre, he’s getting a raise) and having Girardi and Del Zotto (both due new contracts in 2014) to be the top pairing. McDonagh would likely get at least 5M in the open market (Carle got 5.5M last year) and that is a lot for a 2nd pairing defenseman when you have two bargains locked up for next season. Again, no offer sheets, make the trade. Like this article says, I think the Rangers would want a player to go back the other way. They didn’t add a Jay Bouwmeester at the deadline. They will also want an asset that could turn into a McDonagh in a few years (entry level contract bargain). I think the 7th pick (Nurse?), N. Schultz, and a 3rd rounder is a decent place to start. I choose Schultz because he is worth less than Petry (the centre piece is #7), his contract is over when it’s time to pay Girardi and Del Zotto, and he will still be cheaper than what they probably have to pay McDonagh in 2013. The Rangers also have no 1st or 2nd round picks this year…

I know Marincin and #7 are nice assets to have, but I like the idea of negotiating with two young proven RFA’s to be the Oilers’ top defence pair a lot more.

On a slightly different note, I would look to trade Hemsky for a pick, the Oilers are severely overpaying their 2nd 3rd and 4th lines and all we hear on these boards is how that is the team’s weakness. It should be our strength. I’d hit up Columbus with that offer. They have 3 first rounders, two of which look to be pretty late. If you throw a late 1st round pick into the deal with Marincin for Shattenkirk instead of the 2nd rounder I think that looks a lot nicer. This also frees up the salary to actually be able to afford a player in the 2.5M range to move up and down the line up (a Bickell or a Stalberg). Read this article to see the inspiration for a lot of this post: http://www.coppernblue.com/2013/5/2/4286078/three-years

Thank you if you actually read my first post on here!

I agree with all of that except the Yandle comment.

Yes, this argument holds little weight, but Phoenix is a cash-strapped team. They have several yound defenders in Ekman-Larrson, Rundblad, and Gormley coming up the pipeline with Mark Stone following closely behind. Yandle could be the odd man out for a scoring forward; something they desperately need.

I think the argument that Nashville will give Weber away for peanuts just because they're a small market is ridonkulous to say the least.

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#93 Taylor Gang
May 16 2013, 12:17AM
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@Next up, is Connor McJesus.

About you and Weber, can you please show me a detailed model in which the Oilers will be able to afford all the kids plus Weber? Because 7.8 million dollars is an enormous amount of money for a 64.3 million ceiling.

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#94 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
May 16 2013, 02:11PM
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@Taylor Gang

Buying out Horcoff and giving Hemsky away for a second rounder would open up many new possibilities for the Oilers. Moving Gagner to help land Barkov or MacKinnon would be a great help as well.

Even with that trophy on the blueline, the Oilers could still bring in Steven Ott, David Clarkson and even Scott Hartnell to help what's here already. All these changes and still under the cap. If we can just get rid of the deadwood, that's the key to these upgrades.

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