UPDATE ON NUGENT-HOPKINS

Jason Gregor
May 21 2013 01:42PM

There has been lots of speculation lately on the health of Ryan Nugent-Hopkins. The 2011 first overall pick had surgery on April 23rd to repair a torn labrum, and recently I've noticed some suggesting he will be out for a significant portion of next season.

Rather than speculate, I decided to put in a call to his agent Rick Valette to get an update on RNH's shoulder.

The main question we all want to know is what is the timeline on when he's projected to be ready to play next year, and Valette shed some light on that.

"If you look at where he is at today, I think there is a very good chance he'll be ready for opening night," said Valette. "If he's not ready to go, then we won't rush it, but he's already ahead of schedule and barring a setback it's looking good that he'll be ready to start the season."

Valette also wanted to clarify why he, along with the Oilers medical staff and Nugent-Hopkins waited to have surgery.

"Surgery is always the last option, that is why he and the Oilers tried to rehab it first. In the end it just wasn't getting better, but it made sense to exhaust every other option first," said Valette.

Valette sounded very optimistic that Nugent-Hopkins will be stronger and healthier when he returns for the 2013/2014 season. 

When Taylor Hall had his shoulder surgery last season he returned at the start of November, and proceeded to have a great campaign in the AHL and then with the Oilers. The Oilers and Nugent-Hopkins are hoping that surgery will help his overall game as much as it helped Hall.

I've had a few sources tell me that Hall's shoulder had more "issues" than Nugent-Hopkins, so they are confident his rehab will be shorter. It is impossible to predict how a player will respond, but Nugent-Hopkin's rehab is off to a good start.

WILL RNH IMPACT MACT?

Some have wondered if RNH's health will impact how general manager Craig MacTavish looks at his roster? I don't see it having much of a factor. Whether RNH is ready for opening night or two weeks later, I believe MacTavish has a plan in place that won't be altered by a few weeks of recovery.

If Nugent-Hopkins was going to be sidelined until January or February, then it might have altered his plan, but MacTavish is looking big picture. I'd like to believe the Oilers are past the point of looking for quick fixes and band-aid solutions. MacTavish wants to build a roster than is deep enough and talented enough to overcome an injury or two.

QUICK HITS

  • A huge thank you to everyone who came to the King/Queen Karaoke event this past Friday at On The Rocks. It went off better than I expected and there were some killer competitors. I will have some videos up in the near future. We raised just over $9,500 for the MS Society. Thank you to On the Rocks and Oodle Noodle for their generous donations of gift cards. Much appreciated.
     
  • Congratulations to Mayor Mandel on a great career. I loved how he always pushed to make Edmonton better and how he tried to convince Edmontonians to not settle for 2nd rate. I hope our next mayor doesn't "settle" and looks to advance our city. I'm hearing that Councillors Karen Leivovici and Don Iveson will join Kerry Diotte in the race for mayor. There is also a chance Councillor Amarjeet Sohi might throw his hat in the ring. It will be an interesting race.
     
  • The more I watch the NHL playoffs, the more obvious it becomes that the Oilers desperately need to improve their blueline. They need another puck mover and players who are physically stronger.
     
  • I'd take Andrew Shaw on my team any day. The Blackhawks' rookie is fearless. He plays hard every shift, has decent hands, agitates and delivers big hits for a small guy. The Oilers need to find some players who are as competitive as Shaw, regardless of size.
     
  • If Rick Nash is your go-to player, your team will never win. He doesn't dominate enough one-on-one to win a series by himself, and he isn't a great passer who can make others better. Good player, but he isn't a superstar in my eyes.
     
  •  Is there a more dangerous shooter than Pavel Datsyuk? Imagine if he wasn't so good defensively, and cheated here and there to create more chances offensively? I know many coaches want guys to be as defensively aware as Datsyuk, but I suspect most fans would prefer to see his offensive magic on display more often. He is an incredible player, but part of me wishes he'd take a few more chances so we could witness his offensive creativity more often. 
     
  • It is early in the series, but so far Henrik Zetterberg has been much better than Jonathan Toews. These types of battles/matchups are great to watch, and I'm curious to see if Toews can reverse the trend. 

RECENTLY BY JASON GREGOR

 

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One of Canada's most versatile sports personalities. Jason hosts The Jason Gregor Show, weekdays from 2 to 6 p.m., on TSN 1260, and he writes a column every Monday in the Edmonton Journal. You can follow him on Twitter at twitter.com/JasonGregor
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#1 Quicksilver ballet
May 21 2013, 01:53PM
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Paging Steven Weiss, paging Steven Weiss.

Could you please report to the Edmonton Oilers hockey club for the next 3 seasons. You're their new first line center.

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#2 Archaeologuy
May 21 2013, 01:53PM
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That shot by Datsyuk was unreal. Without sounding too sappy, watching something like that which seems impossible is exactly why I love sports. Sometimes you see something that just makes you stand up and say "How did he do that?"

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#3 OilDieHard
May 21 2013, 02:01PM
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the Oilers need to find an Andrew Shaw clone? Ryan Hartman perhaps? and Detroit has been underrated the whole playoffs....like the Oilers in 1990, when nobody believed the Oil would have a chance to win another cup without Gretzky, the Wings, even without Nick Lidstrom, have enough cup experience left in them to win it all, especially as good as Jimmy Howard has played!

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#4 Toro
May 21 2013, 02:01PM
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Quicksilver ballet wrote:

Paging Steven Weiss, paging Steven Weiss.

Could you please report to the Edmonton Oilers hockey club for the next 3 seasons. You're their new first line center.

Oh god you can't be serious, do you really think he is the answer to any problems on this team...

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#5 OilDieHard
May 21 2013, 02:06PM
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Quicksilver ballet wrote:

Paging Steven Weiss, paging Steven Weiss.

Could you please report to the Edmonton Oilers hockey club for the next 3 seasons. You're their new first line center.

er....no!

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#6 Quicksilver ballet
May 21 2013, 02:06PM
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@Toro

Who would you suggest be the bandaid till Hopkins and/or Barkov are amongst the better/top half of the leagues centers?

Arcobello,Lander? In case you haven't noticed, we suck at that center ice position Toro. Certainly not chop licker* Sammy Gagner.

*Opposition centers lick their chops when they look across and see Gagner in their path.

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#7 Quicksilver ballet
May 21 2013, 02:12PM
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OilDieHard wrote:

er....no!

er.....why?

Where's your pound of cure?

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#8 Taylor Gang
May 21 2013, 02:12PM
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I think our success this year was influenced by Nuge's production. If he had a second season comparable to Hall's or even crazier Eb's, no doubt we would have been in the running for the playoffs until the end.

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#9 Taylor Gang
May 21 2013, 02:13PM
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Quicksilver ballet wrote:

er.....why?

Where's your pound of cure?

Maybe because he missed all season, not to mention Horcoff would have to be bought out.

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#10 Will
May 21 2013, 02:29PM
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Ah yes, heres hoping he comes back better than ever, just like Hall did. If / when he does, I think that is the year our top line becomes one of the more dominant ones in the NHL.

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#11 Klima's Mullet
May 21 2013, 02:33PM
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Taylor Hall will play center until Nuge is back

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#12 Truth
May 21 2013, 02:42PM
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I hate to be the debby downer here, but wasn't there a piece up this past off-season wherein Theo Peckham mentioned he was in the "best shape of his life". Funny how that worked out. I realize this is a completely different situation, RNH is a world class professional athlete and Peckman is not. It is also an injury vs. professional duty and commitment, but it goes to show what is being said and what is actually happening is not always the same. I believe RNH and the Oilers staff will do everything possible to get him ready ASAP as if the next season depends on it, which it does. However, I take the comments from RNH's agent with a grain of salt.

I can't imagine Valette letting the Edmonton fan base know that RNH is progressing behind schedule and is unable to work on his upper body strength until late summer, if that really was the case. Best to say all is going well and when he misses the first month then mention the setbacks. My money is on the over if the line is at 10 of the first games missed. I also don't believe Valette would have said that RNH should have had the surgery prior to the WJC's, if that's how he really felt.

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#13 Romulus' Apotheosis
May 21 2013, 02:46PM
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Good news...

Still think they should have shut him down a few weeks earlier and worry they will rush him back to action.

Out of curiosity... why are we asking an agent and not a dr? (beyond the obvious of privacy/secrecy issues)... or even the player himself?

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#14 Romulus' Apotheosis
May 21 2013, 02:47PM
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Klima's Mullet wrote:

Taylor Hall will play center until Nuge is back

I think if they switch Hall it will be a permanent switch, or at least a long term try out and will probably be a decision independent of RNH's situation.

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#15 ghostofberanek
May 21 2013, 02:49PM
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Bahahahaha Steven Weiss!!! Wow. Our new first line center hey? RNH is our first line center, the end.

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#16 Walter Sobchak
May 21 2013, 03:13PM
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Romulus' Apotheosis wrote:

I think if they switch Hall it will be a permanent switch, or at least a long term try out and will probably be a decision independent of RNH's situation.

This is what aggravates and scares me the most, not you personally Romulus, but the thought Hall could just switch to center.

So it takes a year, maybe two of learning the postion, only then the realization that center is a unique position that not everyone can play.

How fast can we burn through these players ELC's and now into there long term contract's.

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#17 Rocket
May 21 2013, 03:23PM
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Walter Sobchak wrote:

This is what aggravates and scares me the most, not you personally Romulus, but the thought Hall could just switch to center.

So it takes a year, maybe two of learning the postion, only then the realization that center is a unique position that not everyone can play.

How fast can we burn through these players ELC's and now into there long term contract's.

Yeah no kidding.

I wish people would stop suggesting Hall play centre. He's an elite winger, deal with it.

I mean, does anyone think Ovechkin or Perry should play centre? I hope not.

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#18 oilers2k10
May 21 2013, 03:26PM
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I don't get why everybody's so scared of the idea of tryin Hall at center, it's not like the Oilers are going any place in the playoffs anytime soon, if they're gonna keep finishing in the bottom third of the league overall standings for the next few years why not give it a try here and there? It can't hurt, and oilers can't get much worse.. I personally like him on the wing, but don't see the hurt in putting him in at center now and then, maybe on the powerplay? RNH on one line, Hall and Yakupov on another..Paajarvi and a powerforward on the other wings.

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#19 OilDieHard
May 21 2013, 03:34PM
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Quicksilver ballet wrote:

er.....why?

Where's your pound of cure?

my pound of cure is already playing for us...Sam Gagner. he looks like he's started to finally show his talent, and despite Weiss having a few seasons where he's scored over 20 goals and 60 points, is he really an improvement over Gagner? if he is, how much of one? i'd rather keep Gagner, at least for now. despite most of us wanting a bunch of earth moving trades to upgrade this team, i just can't see it happening that fast. i for one am willing to be even MORE patient while this team continues on it's rebuild.

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#20 oilers2k10
May 21 2013, 03:43PM
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Quicksilver ballet wrote:

Paging Steven Weiss, paging Steven Weiss.

Could you please report to the Edmonton Oilers hockey club for the next 3 seasons. You're their new first line center.

If Oilers are gonna replace Gagner they better "Replace" him, not get another one like him except older and less offensive instincts..no thank you.

Oilers need a younger, meaner Jason Arnott as their number two center.

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#21 Time Travelling Sean
May 21 2013, 03:50PM
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Hall/Kane/St.Louis all play like centers on the ice but don't take face-offs.

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#22 jake
May 21 2013, 03:55PM
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If that surgery helps his shot hit the net...gitty up.

I remember the Ray Ferraro interview with RNH last year (his first year) when they were discussing his 99-like passing ability......many of those passes this year hit sticks, skates etc......hope that was the shoulder causing that.

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#23 DSF
May 21 2013, 03:58PM
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@OilDieHard

You really need to look at Gagner's season more closely before declaring him the "cure".

In his first 10 games, Gagner scored 11 points including 3 goals. (1.1PPG)

In his last 20 games, he scored only 3 goals and 10 points. (0.50 PPG)

In his last 10 games, he scored 0 goals and 4 assists, all of them second assists. (0.40 PPG.)

So, once again we're looking at a player who can put up points in short bursts and then vanishes for an extended period of time.

It's likely the time Gagner spent playing in Austria gave him an early boost while the rest of the league got up to speed but, as soon as the rubber hit the road, he folded like a Taiwanese lawn chair.

That he was also dreadful defensively should give you pause before claiming he is the answer.

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#24 jonny94
May 21 2013, 04:05PM
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DSF wrote:

You really need to look at Gagner's season more closely before declaring him the "cure".

In his first 10 games, Gagner scored 11 points including 3 goals. (1.1PPG)

In his last 20 games, he scored only 3 goals and 10 points. (0.50 PPG)

In his last 10 games, he scored 0 goals and 4 assists, all of them second assists. (0.40 PPG.)

So, once again we're looking at a player who can put up points in short bursts and then vanishes for an extended period of time.

It's likely the time Gagner spent playing in Austria gave him an early boost while the rest of the league got up to speed but, as soon as the rubber hit the road, he folded like a Taiwanese lawn chair.

That he was also dreadful defensively should give you pause before claiming he is the answer.

So we should get Stephen Weiss or not? Just curious, I'm not against the idea entirely but I don't know enough about him to say he's worth a phone call

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#25 Rocket
May 21 2013, 04:07PM
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jake wrote:

If that surgery helps his shot hit the net...gitty up.

I remember the Ray Ferraro interview with RNH last year (his first year) when they were discussing his 99-like passing ability......many of those passes this year hit sticks, skates etc......hope that was the shoulder causing that.

That's an interesting point. Baby Nuge is such a precision passer I wonder if his shoulder movement was affected. It will be interesting how he comes back from rehab.

Then again, maybe opposing players were just getting used to him & adjusting accordingly.

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#26 pelhem grenville
May 21 2013, 04:09PM
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the lead picture of the piece was changed...

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#27 unknown666
May 21 2013, 04:10PM
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DSF wrote:

You really need to look at Gagner's season more closely before declaring him the "cure".

In his first 10 games, Gagner scored 11 points including 3 goals. (1.1PPG)

In his last 20 games, he scored only 3 goals and 10 points. (0.50 PPG)

In his last 10 games, he scored 0 goals and 4 assists, all of them second assists. (0.40 PPG.)

So, once again we're looking at a player who can put up points in short bursts and then vanishes for an extended period of time.

It's likely the time Gagner spent playing in Austria gave him an early boost while the rest of the league got up to speed but, as soon as the rubber hit the road, he folded like a Taiwanese lawn chair.

That he was also dreadful defensively should give you pause before claiming he is the answer.

i dont know if gagner is the answer but you cant say hes the same player as a year ago. his shot has improved big time, hes faster and you can tell hes got more confidence in his skill now.

putting up an 11 game point streak isnt a "short burst" its 1/8th of a full season

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#28 Romulus' Apotheosis
May 21 2013, 04:16PM
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Walter Sobchak wrote:

This is what aggravates and scares me the most, not you personally Romulus, but the thought Hall could just switch to center.

So it takes a year, maybe two of learning the postion, only then the realization that center is a unique position that not everyone can play.

How fast can we burn through these players ELC's and now into there long term contract's.

who is saying it would be easy?

The reason we know anything about it is because reporters ask the Oil about it a lot and RK said Taylor didn't want to switch mid-season and wanted a full training camp at the position... suggesting

1) the team wants it to happen, or at least try it

2) the team asked him and he said maybe... on condition

3) Hall is open to the idea.

there are lots of precedents for this... notably Hall's forerunner Messier.

FWIW I think it makes a lot of sense.

Hall already kills it as a 2-way machine against top comp... so asking him to take on more responsibility seems like a small stretch.

The team is weak at C and large at W, switching Hall frees up a lot of problems.

But yea... it's not like switching from cheerios to honey-nut cheerios and it may not work...

still, it is hardly a huge leap of an idea... nor do I think his performance would radically suffer or take a year or two to rebound.

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#29 DSF
May 21 2013, 04:17PM
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jonny94 wrote:

So we should get Stephen Weiss or not? Just curious, I'm not against the idea entirely but I don't know enough about him to say he's worth a phone call

I wouldn't.

Too small (5'11" 190) too old (30) and coming off a major injury.

He wasn't playing well before injury either (4 points in 17GP).

He is a UFA so the cost will likely be low but I don't think he is the answer.

The Oilers need a big, 2 way centre to compliment Hopkins and Weiss ain't it.

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#30 DSF
May 21 2013, 04:23PM
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unknown666 wrote:

i dont know if gagner is the answer but you cant say hes the same player as a year ago. his shot has improved big time, hes faster and you can tell hes got more confidence in his skill now.

putting up an 11 game point streak isnt a "short burst" its 1/8th of a full season

Yeah, remember he did the same thing the previous season including his 8 point game and still ended the season with only 47 points.

In the final 20 games of the 2011/12 season he scored 4 goals and 7 points.

At that pace, he would have scored 8 goals and 28 points on the season.

He vanishes big time and I would wait to see him for a full season before declaring him a better player than he was the year before.

The evidence doesn't support it.

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#31 jonny94
May 21 2013, 04:32PM
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DSF wrote:

I wouldn't.

Too small (5'11" 190) too old (30) and coming off a major injury.

He wasn't playing well before injury either (4 points in 17GP).

He is a UFA so the cost will likely be low but I don't think he is the answer.

The Oilers need a big, 2 way centre to compliment Hopkins and Weiss ain't it.

Thanks for that. Would you or anyone else know who would be good pick ups in the off season? The only 2 names that caught my attention has been Nathan Horton (minus his injury concerns) and David Clarkson. Are there any big centremen that the Oilers have an honest chance at getting? I'm up for trading everyone but Hall, Yakupov, J. Schultz, and RNH.... I realize they are the only ones with any value to other teams but would an Eberle and a draft pick bring over that big minutes D man we desperately need and if so who would u go for... And don't say Shea Weber cause as Willis already pointed out Nashville paid big dollars to keep him here after that whole Philly fiasco.

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#32 Craig1981
May 21 2013, 04:40PM
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I actually like Gagner with Hall and Eberle and RNH with Yak and Hemsky. Call whatever line the "1rst" you want Gagner has shown he can produce with top tier talent, and though not at the same level compliments them well.

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#33 DSF
May 21 2013, 04:49PM
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jonny94 wrote:

Thanks for that. Would you or anyone else know who would be good pick ups in the off season? The only 2 names that caught my attention has been Nathan Horton (minus his injury concerns) and David Clarkson. Are there any big centremen that the Oilers have an honest chance at getting? I'm up for trading everyone but Hall, Yakupov, J. Schultz, and RNH.... I realize they are the only ones with any value to other teams but would an Eberle and a draft pick bring over that big minutes D man we desperately need and if so who would u go for... And don't say Shea Weber cause as Willis already pointed out Nashville paid big dollars to keep him here after that whole Philly fiasco.

Holmgren in Philly likes to swing for the fences and is not afraid of making major trades.

I would try and put together a package for Sean Couturier.

He's only 20 and hasn't really blossomed in Philly but a 6'3" 200 centre is just what the doctor ordered and I think he would thrive in Edmonton the same way JVR took off in Toronto.

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#34 SrCain
May 21 2013, 04:49PM
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Romulus' Apotheosis wrote:

who is saying it would be easy?

The reason we know anything about it is because reporters ask the Oil about it a lot and RK said Taylor didn't want to switch mid-season and wanted a full training camp at the position... suggesting

1) the team wants it to happen, or at least try it

2) the team asked him and he said maybe... on condition

3) Hall is open to the idea.

there are lots of precedents for this... notably Hall's forerunner Messier.

FWIW I think it makes a lot of sense.

Hall already kills it as a 2-way machine against top comp... so asking him to take on more responsibility seems like a small stretch.

The team is weak at C and large at W, switching Hall frees up a lot of problems.

But yea... it's not like switching from cheerios to honey-nut cheerios and it may not work...

still, it is hardly a huge leap of an idea... nor do I think his performance would radically suffer or take a year or two to rebound.

My main concern with moving Hall to C is the hole it leaves at LW. That leaves MPS, Harti, and Smytty on the chart. That scares me. Im also not convinced moving him there is the best use of his ability, especially when all its doing is filling one hole and leaving another. Its pointless.

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#35 DSF
May 21 2013, 04:51PM
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SrCain wrote:

My main concern with moving Hall to C is the hole it leaves at LW. That leaves MPS, Harti, and Smytty on the chart. That scares me. Im also not convinced moving him there is the best use of his ability, especially when all its doing is filling one hole and leaving another. Its pointless.

Exactly.

LW would be a black hole with only one actual NHL player (on a good team)...the 37 year old Smyth.

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#36 Wax Man Riley
May 21 2013, 04:57PM
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DSF wrote:

Exactly.

LW would be a black hole with only one actual NHL player (on a good team)...the 37 year old Smyth.

Hall has to stay at LW. Wes nailed it in comment 16.

That would be a great LW lineup.... in the ECHL

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#37 Quicksilver ballet
May 21 2013, 05:07PM
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Romulus' Apotheosis wrote:

I think if they switch Hall it will be a permanent switch, or at least a long term try out and will probably be a decision independent of RNH's situation.

Just the fact that Hall isn't quite ready to accept that center ice roll, has me thinking, is he putting his own needs first, before the teams needs. If everyone on the team isn't participating in whatever role that needs to be filled, isn't this the backbone of a functional hockey club?

If the bottom 6 are expected to fill roles. Why aren't the top 6 held accountable to the same extent? When Taylor was first asked if he would be willing to move to center, his answer should've been, whatever I have to do to help this hockey club win.

Can we really blame him for that though, with zero veteran leadership on this hockey club? Take away time and space from the Oiler kids, and stick a fork in them, this team is done, if the kids can't shake loose.

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#38 horndog77
May 21 2013, 05:08PM
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Edmonton needs to trade for a #1 center... No brainer! If nuge is not healthy there's no point in trading Gagner. There has to be a team out there who would like Edmontons first overall + parts. Is there a chance Edmonton could get Tyler seguin from Boston?

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#39 Quicksilver ballet
May 21 2013, 05:14PM
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DSF wrote:

Holmgren in Philly likes to swing for the fences and is not afraid of making major trades.

I would try and put together a package for Sean Couturier.

He's only 20 and hasn't really blossomed in Philly but a 6'3" 200 centre is just what the doctor ordered and I think he would thrive in Edmonton the same way JVR took off in Toronto.

With second line center minutes here in Oil Country, that could be all the kick start he needs.

Could we still then sell what's left for Darnell Nurse?

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#40 DSF
May 21 2013, 06:09PM
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Quicksilver ballet wrote:

With second line center minutes here in Oil Country, that could be all the kick start he needs.

Could we still then sell what's left for Darnell Nurse?

No.

I think to get Philly interested you would have to include the 7th overall pick so Philly could take Nurse.

They need defensemen in the worst way.

They're also in cap hell ($3.2M over the cap) so I would offer up Hemsky (pay half his salary) in return for a contract they want to get rid of.

Perhaps take a "flyer" on Scott Hartnell who is signed until 2019 @ $4.75M and use a compliance buyout after next season if it's not working.

Hartnell is a MacT kind of player and the Oilers could certainly use his size and grit even if it's just short term.

For defense, I think I would take a run at Alex Edler. If Vancouver can't trade Luongo, they may not want to be locked into Edler's contract which has a NTC kicking in on July 1st.

With Tanev and Corrado coming on, the Canucks could be convinced to move him.

I think you would need to make a really good offer though since a lot of teams will be looking for D this summer so maybe next year's 1st and Marincin.

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#41 Ssssstttttttrrrrr
May 21 2013, 06:10PM
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I'm all for trading for couturier. Exactly what we need.

Does the 7th and paajarvi do it or the 7th and gagner?

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#42 Walter Sobchak
May 21 2013, 06:42PM
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Romulus' Apotheosis wrote:

who is saying it would be easy?

The reason we know anything about it is because reporters ask the Oil about it a lot and RK said Taylor didn't want to switch mid-season and wanted a full training camp at the position... suggesting

1) the team wants it to happen, or at least try it

2) the team asked him and he said maybe... on condition

3) Hall is open to the idea.

there are lots of precedents for this... notably Hall's forerunner Messier.

FWIW I think it makes a lot of sense.

Hall already kills it as a 2-way machine against top comp... so asking him to take on more responsibility seems like a small stretch.

The team is weak at C and large at W, switching Hall frees up a lot of problems.

But yea... it's not like switching from cheerios to honey-nut cheerios and it may not work...

still, it is hardly a huge leap of an idea... nor do I think his performance would radically suffer or take a year or two to rebound.

Just because the Oilers want something to be true doesn't nessesserly make it so.

Hall's exit interview, check it out.

Hall flat out explains why he doesn't want to play center, admits to defensive deficiencies in his game and further admits to actually preferring to stay on the wing.

He talks how difficult it would be to move to center and his own preference to stay on the LW.

Now, I'm not body language expert, but he didn't seem convinced or confident he wanted or could do it.

He also explains that the last time he played center was bantam, and although drafted into the OHL as a center he was moved to the wing very quickly.

That's pretty telling evidence to the general media, imagine his answer to the Oilers was a resounding NO.

Also comparing a HHOF player vs Hall is unfair, not to mention Messier made the switch when hockey was a completely different animal.

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#43 OilDieHard
May 21 2013, 06:54PM
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DSF wrote:

You really need to look at Gagner's season more closely before declaring him the "cure".

In his first 10 games, Gagner scored 11 points including 3 goals. (1.1PPG)

In his last 20 games, he scored only 3 goals and 10 points. (0.50 PPG)

In his last 10 games, he scored 0 goals and 4 assists, all of them second assists. (0.40 PPG.)

So, once again we're looking at a player who can put up points in short bursts and then vanishes for an extended period of time.

It's likely the time Gagner spent playing in Austria gave him an early boost while the rest of the league got up to speed but, as soon as the rubber hit the road, he folded like a Taiwanese lawn chair.

That he was also dreadful defensively should give you pause before claiming he is the answer.

and Stephen Weiss is more of a "cure" than Gagner is? not in my book and a lot of players have ups and downs during the season, it's not unique to only Gagner. and Gagner outscored Eberle, so i guess Eberle folded like a Taiwanese chair too then? he didn't seem so dreadful to me defensively last year either, so sorry, but i would stick with Gagner over Weiss.

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#44 Walter Sobchak
May 21 2013, 06:58PM
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@DSF

The Flyers do make a lot of sense, the Oilers get an exceptional prospect, they get need and most importantly they get a two way player.

I'm not sure the Flyers do Hartnell, I haven't checked cap geek but does he not have a NTC-NMC?

As much as Holmgren loves a good deal you have to convince Snyder too.

Regardless, I still think the Oilers get a center and trade Gagner for Weber or Yandel.

Crazy, but I got a gut feeling.

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#45 DSF
May 21 2013, 07:01PM
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OilDieHard wrote:

and Stephen Weiss is more of a "cure" than Gagner is? not in my book and a lot of players have ups and downs during the season, it's not unique to only Gagner. and Gagner outscored Eberle, so i guess Eberle folded like a Taiwanese chair too then? he didn't seem so dreadful to me defensively last year either, so sorry, but i would stick with Gagner over Weiss.

You may want to read more carefully before spouting off.

In a comment above I expressed my belief that Weiss is NOT the "cure".

Neither is Gagner.

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#46 OilDieHard
May 21 2013, 07:14PM
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DSF wrote:

You may want to read more carefully before spouting off.

In a comment above I expressed my belief that Weiss is NOT the "cure".

Neither is Gagner.

maybe you should take a breath and give Gagner more time to develop as a player before...er... "spouting off" that he's not the cure! in no way shape or form do i believe this KID is finished developing yet at 23. i don't agree with your opinion on this and never will...don't take it so personal and move on.

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#47 Eddie Edmonton
May 21 2013, 07:45PM
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OilDieHard wrote:

maybe you should take a breath and give Gagner more time to develop as a player before...er... "spouting off" that he's not the cure! in no way shape or form do i believe this KID is finished developing yet at 23. i don't agree with your opinion on this and never will...don't take it so personal and move on.

How much time does Gagner need to develop? 8-10 years?

Gagner holds the record for years spent developing in a professional league. Gagner has reached his peak. There isn't much to his game. His point production and value is measured in his linemates. Gagner rides the wave but is never in tide, rarely found later in the season when games matter.

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#48 Citizen David
May 21 2013, 07:49PM
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Eddie Edmonton wrote:

How much time does Gagner need to develop? 8-10 years?

Gagner holds the record for years spent developing in a professional league. Gagner has reached his peak. There isn't much to his game. His point production and value is measured in his linemates. Gagner rides the wave but is never in tide, rarely found later in the season when games matter.

I disagree that Gagner is done developing. He won't stop until 25-26. That's what everyone does. Doesn't matter where they do it. He's not quite in his prime yet. Don't be surprised if the Oilers trade him, that he will play well and a large group of Oiler fans will groan about letting him go.

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#49 DSF
May 21 2013, 07:56PM
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Citizen David wrote:

I disagree that Gagner is done developing. He won't stop until 25-26. That's what everyone does. Doesn't matter where they do it. He's not quite in his prime yet. Don't be surprised if the Oilers trade him, that he will play well and a large group of Oiler fans will groan about letting him go.

6 years is plenty.

He still needs to be sheltered and gets his ass kicked by tough competition.

His Corsi is just dreadful...among the worst in the league.

Flush.

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#50 leadfarmer
May 21 2013, 07:57PM
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I would like to nominated DSF for the job opening. He is clearly motivated and can talk out of his a$$.

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