Craig MacTavish: Making not so bold moves?

Jonathan Willis
June 30 2013 06:55PM

Edmonton Oilers general manager Craig MacTavish was busy early at the 2013 NHL Draft, but the moves were less bold than many may have hoped for. Second round picks, as promised, were the currency of choice but rather than shoring up the Oilers in the short-term Mactavish opted to re-stock the team's supply of draft picks, which had been depleted entering the draft.

MacTavish pulled off a pair of trades, and while he failed to add NHL-ready talent to the Oilers he did manage to turn one second round draft pick into five selections in the two moves:

  • Edmonton traded their 37th overall pick to Los Angeles for the 57th, 88th and 96th picks
  • Edmonton then traded the 57th pick to St. Louis for the 83rd, 94th and 113th picks

All told, MacTavish sacrificed an early second round pick for selections at 83rd, 88th, 94th, 96th and 113th overall. Los Angeles picked Valentin Zykov; the Oilers instead took flyers on five different players:

  • Bogdan Yakimov: A 6'5" Russian centre with real potential but footspeed issues
  • Anton Slepyshev: A high-scoring Russian who was controversially passed over by everyone in 2012
  • Jackson Houck: A character player who led a weak Vancouver Giants team in scoring
  • Kyle Platzer: A defensive specialist buried on a strong London team
  • Aidan Muir: A 6'4" power forward playing midget hockey 

The two trades do a pair of important things for the Oilers.

Firstly, Edmonton re-stocked what was a rather barren cupboard of picks. Thanks to trades with Dallas for Mark Fistric and Florida for Jerred Smithson, the Oilers didn't have a third or fourth round draft pick and without making trades would have come away with only six players; instead they sacrifice quality in Zykov in exchange for quantity. Given the boom-or-bust nature of the draft, it's understandable why the team would want as many choices as possible.

Secondly, all five players chosen with those picks are forwards. The Oilers have a pretty decent set of prospects on defence, but up front the development pipeline is getting pretty empty. This gives the team an opportunity to load up on players who can potentially play roles up front for Oklahoma and, in a few years, perhaps for Edmonton. It's obvious this was a position of need for the Oilers, and they've done their best to address it - with picks still to come, seven of their first eight selections (and all five acquired via trade) have been forwards, with first round pick Darnell Nurse the only exception.

For Oilers fans, it would have been nice to see the team improve in the short-term by adding NHL players, and the rumours of the team pursuing Cory Schneider and Braydon Coburn and Cal Clutterbuck and others won't move the dial forward on the team one inch. But it's also easy to see why Craig MacTavish made the choices he did, and his work on draft day did help address positions of organizational weakness.

Much more, however, will need to happen in the coming week or two.

Recently around the Nation Network

The big news of the day came, not from Edmonton, but rather from Vancouver, as their ongoing goaltending saga finally saw a significant shift. The Canucks opted to hang their hopes on the untradable Roberto Luongo, instead sending presumptive starter Cory Schneider to New Jersey in exchange for the ninth overall pick (which was used on centre Bo Horvat). At Canucks Army, Thomas Drance says he has conflicting thoughts on the process:

I'll admit that I'm of two minds about the deal that sent Cory Schneider to the New Jersey Devils straight up for the pick that became Bo Horvat. On the one hand, a top-ten pick in a deep draft is a solid return for an unproven starter. On the other, this was handled embarrassingly by the Canucks organization, the clubs overall indecision on this front is not a good look, and it ultimately worked out poorly for the club.

Click the link to read more, or alternately, feel free check out some of my other pieces here:

74b7cedc5d8bfbe88cf071309e98d2c3
Jonathan Willis is a freelance writer. He currently works for Oilers Nation, Sportsnet, the Edmonton Journal and Bleacher Report. He's co-written three books and worked for myriad websites, including Grantland, ESPN, The Score, and Hockey Prospectus. He was previously the founder and managing editor of Copper & Blue.
Avatar
#151 admiralmark
June 30 2013, 11:16PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
madjam wrote:

Interesting Lowe did not appear to be there . One fan says Lowe and MacT. don't see eye to eye , and sensed Lowe preferred to keep Tambellini . I didn't notice it , but wonder if anyone else did at MacT. being the new GM ?

Lol.. seriously your gonna throw a statement on here about the GM from what "one fan" said? I hope you are a teenager or younger cuz thats the only excuse for this post.

PS: You werent the actual fan that said it are you?!

Avatar
#152 K_Mart
June 30 2013, 11:21PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
dougtheslug wrote:

Are you saying he also knows more about draft picks than the management and scouting staffs of Columbus (who had 2 cracks at him and demurred), NY Islanders, Buffalo, Ottawa, San Jose, Detroit, Toronto, Calgary, and Washington? Cuz they disagreed with him too.

Anyway, about that statement that Hunter Shinkaruk will have a more immediate impact than Darnell Nurse. Care to wager?

I'd be careful on this one... 'more of an immediate impact' is pretty subjective.

Shinkaruk could crack the line up a year earlier than nurse and post 30 pts, but Nurse could come in the following year and be more valuable every single year afterwards but you'd still lose the bet.

Avatar
#153 K_Mart
June 30 2013, 11:30PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Walter Sobchak wrote:

Your making excuses for a team that is wandering the desert.

Paajarvi is not an immediate upgrade to what NYI offdered?

You cant offer up the 7th overall for a ready NHL defensmen? I would think so.

you couldn't use your 2014 pick to aid in getting another player?

Bolland will go were Chicago trades him too. period!

The Oilers were not prepared to match simple as that!

Sorry, Tomorrow the same team will still be wandering in the desert, looking to now overpay a UFA.

P.S next years crop of UFA defensmen is also another reason today's pick was wasted.

No way, we are fine, Nurse will likely crack the line up in 2015-16 or 2014-15 and be a #1-2 d man by the time Ebs is 28... oh wait.. there goes 5 years. Damn, should have thought that one through.

Which ready NHL defenseman would you want in exchange for a D.Nurse+X package?

Phaneuf? Letang? Yandle? Ehrhoff? Edler? Who else is even potentially available? and really, what are the odds any of those gm's pull the trigger on a deal like that?

Today was going to be a loss for MacT no matter what. If Schneider is costing a top 10 pick, and clutterbuck is costing a fairly high level prospect, I don't even want to knwo what a ready #2-3 dman would cost.

Avatar
#154 WhattaMike
June 30 2013, 11:31PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@madjam...come on bud...if you are gonna put that out about Lowe against MacT watch the draft again cause Lowe was right next to MacT and Howson shaking hands with the Nurse family....Geez!!!

I can't believe the gall of Gillis telling the vancouver news that we made the Schneider deal with N.J to get into the top 10 for Horvat when he was advising to MacT to give him the #7, a 2nd rounder and an NHL roster player...of which...MacT was willing to give apparently (according to reporters).

Hope Luongo says I demand to get out of Vancouver with Gillis still here!!!!!

Awesome that MacT kept the pick to get a future high ended type top 2 defender named Darnell Nurse instead... without throwing away a 2nd rounder which also helped fill the prospect system with 5 more picks...

Avatar
#155 Jerod
June 30 2013, 11:33PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

"My favorite OHL prospect as his potential going forward is through the roof. He is a strong physical player that is able to throw his weight around and make a big impact despite still being on the wiry side. Just wait until he gains another thirty pounds of muscle, with the aggressiveness and meanness he exhibits, he could be a true monster. Nurse skates very well for his size and has some intriguing offensive tools to continue developing as he becomes that strong two-way presence. An injury to his finger, picked up towards the end of the year, left him with a torn tendon that had to be surgically repaired causing him to miss the U18’s in Sochi, Russia and the NHL Combine fitness testing. That alone speaks volumes to how determined and gritty this kid is, as his play did not suffer one bit even with a difficult injury like this to play through. I feel he has top pairing potential with NHL All-Star upside." - Dan Stewart

Avatar
#156 K_Mart
June 30 2013, 11:37PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

" Gillis was advising MacT to give him the #7, a 2nd rounder and an NHL roster player...of which...MacT was willing to give apparently (according to reporters)."

link?? I saw Rishaug tweet that the price was too high for the Oil, but nothing about us offering #7, a 2nd rounder and a roster player, hard to believe gillis would turn that down just to avoid having schneider in the same division.

Avatar
#157 Joel
June 30 2013, 11:37PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Broadstreet hockey has some pretty impressive usage stats for Nurse.

http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2013/6/29/4478064/chl-forward-usage-draft-data

Nurse has some upside, and it’s encouraging 65% of his offence was at EV. He was also getting 2nd PP minutes, and playing the tough comp. He’s a guy I can see who takes the next step, especially with the physical genes and workout commitments. Internal motivation and character isn’t something that’s in everyone.

Avatar
#158 2004Z06
June 30 2013, 11:43PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Walter Sobchak wrote:

Think about that for a secon, Gillis just did the Oilers a massive favour by not doing that deal.

You just sent the 7th, plus prospect (Paajarvi) and the second for TWO years of Schneider!!!!

That would have been bar none the worst draft in Oilers history right there!

If it wasn't for Gillis, the dumbest GM in the league would have been MacTavish!

Undisputed worse GM if that trade went down, I wouldn't be talking about Gillis, he did MacTavish a favor.....again!

Mac T didn't give Gillis what he was asking for and therefore Gillis did the deal with Jersey. Mac T was the smart one in not making the deal. Gillis had no options left at that point. Didn't inform Loungo, didnt inform Schneider, had the owner drive to Louongos house to give him the news. Real class act. Tells the world he is trading Louongo all year and then stabs him and Schneider in the back with one move for a draft pick no less.

Lets not start comparing GM's as I am sure Gillis is gone after the smoke clears from this fiasco.

You really think Louongo is still going to play there after all this? Vancouver is going to quickly have zero NHL tenders. Hope Lack can carry the load.

Avatar
#159 K_Mart
June 30 2013, 11:49PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Walter Sobchak wrote:

Think about that for a secon, Gillis just did the Oilers a massive favour by not doing that deal.

You just sent the 7th, plus prospect (Paajarvi) and the second for TWO years of Schneider!!!!

That would have been bar none the worst draft in Oilers history right there!

If it wasn't for Gillis, the dumbest GM in the league would have been MacTavish!

Undisputed worse GM if that trade went down, I wouldn't be talking about Gillis, he did MacTavish a favor.....again!

Link please?

Who reported that MacT actually made that offer? And that Gillis turned that offer down?

Avatar
#160 nuge2nail
July 01 2013, 12:00AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Oiler Domination To Follow

Can anyone remember the last trade oiler management won?

Or for that matter lost?

A trade of significance that is...

What a waste of a last half decades worth of payroll this management group has been....

Avatar
#161 nuge2nail
July 01 2013, 12:13AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Oiler Domination To Follow

Eklund reporting Oilers to go all in for Horton. Also to make a move to upgrade the D. I'm guessing the Dman is Ference.

Here we go again. Only way to sign an impact Ufa is to overpay, MacT will not overpay and oiler fans will praise him for not doing so.

Hopefully I'm wrong.

Avatar
#162 Walter Sobchak
July 01 2013, 12:13AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
K_Mart wrote:

Link please?

Who reported that MacT actually made that offer? And that Gillis turned that offer down?

Ryan Rishuag, the whole cast at TSN and Darren Dreger.

you want to watch the draft all over again be my guest, Once was painful enough for me.

Avatar
#163 nuge2nail
July 01 2013, 12:13AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Oiler Domination To Follow

Eklund reporting Oilers to go all in for Horton. Also to make a move to upgrade the D. I'm guessing the Dman is Ference.

Here we go again. Only way to sign an impact Ufa is to overpay, MacT will not overpay and oiler fans will praise him for not doing so.

Hopefully I'm wrong.

Avatar
#164 WhattaMike
July 01 2013, 12:14AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@K_Mart

About what Gillis wanted from Edmonton and the given reporter's stated type Oilers offer to Vancouver so as yo make the deal,... I read in the Vancouver Sun and Province Sports section tonight...just to see what Gillis had to say.

They seemingly insinuated the possible wants from Gillis/Oilers offer was inferred by TSN/sportsnet...

To me...the #7 pick is higher than #9 alone...along with a 2nd rounder being even more than N.J offer too...unless Gillis can't count...

Avatar
#165 Czar
July 01 2013, 12:16AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@DSF

Sure.

I'd wager Nurse spends another year in junior and then a season in the AHL.

I would expect Shinkaruk plays in the NHL much sooner.

I'm looking forward to seeing them play against each other in Penticton in September.

Keep an eye on Kale Kessy as well, they'll both have an impact in the tournament and rattle a few cages.

Avatar
#166 K_Mart
July 01 2013, 12:17AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Walter Sobchak wrote:

Ryan Rishuag, the whole cast at TSN and Darren Dreger.

you want to watch the draft all over again be my guest, Once was painful enough for me.

Guess I missed it. I saw Rishaug say that the price was too high for the Oilers and that they were out. I'll take your word for it, although it is hard to believe a) that MacT would make such a ridiculous offer and B) that Gillis would turn it down. ... or is it.

Avatar
#167 Walter Sobchak
July 01 2013, 12:21AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
2004Z06 wrote:

Mac T didn't give Gillis what he was asking for and therefore Gillis did the deal with Jersey. Mac T was the smart one in not making the deal. Gillis had no options left at that point. Didn't inform Loungo, didnt inform Schneider, had the owner drive to Louongos house to give him the news. Real class act. Tells the world he is trading Louongo all year and then stabs him and Schneider in the back with one move for a draft pick no less.

Lets not start comparing GM's as I am sure Gillis is gone after the smoke clears from this fiasco.

You really think Louongo is still going to play there after all this? Vancouver is going to quickly have zero NHL tenders. Hope Lack can carry the load.

As I said above re-watch the draft, the Oilers are stunned sitting there as the trade goes down.

The Oilers offered the 7th, a prospect and a second, all confirmed by TSN and above said insiders.

Gillis didn't want Schneider in the same conference.

As for why Gillis traded a goalie he had to make a decision.

Oh, if you have two elite goalies and you have to trade one, that's called assets, That's a good position to be in!!

Had Gillis accepted the deal with the Oilers, MacTavish would look like a fool right now.

Avatar
#168 Walter Sobchak
July 01 2013, 12:25AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
K_Mart wrote:

Guess I missed it. I saw Rishaug say that the price was too high for the Oilers and that they were out. I'll take your word for it, although it is hard to believe a) that MacT would make such a ridiculous offer and B) that Gillis would turn it down. ... or is it.

I wouldn't have made the deal, that's my point, the fact the Oilers did is whats outstanding!

Had Gillis made that trade the Oilers would be sitting with a goalie who in two years could fly the coup.

I'm not kidding, they go crazy for about three minutes explaining how the Oilers proposal was superior to NJ.

Gillis just didn't want Schneider in the same conference or Schneider knew about the deal and nixed it.

The deal was there though.

Avatar
#169 K_Mart
July 01 2013, 12:30AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@Walter Sobchak

I could see Schneider nixing it, but if Gillis said no because he was worried about having schneider in the same div for 2 seasons? hah, he's dumber than MacT. It just makes no sense for Gillis to turn down that offer when your division rivals already have a goalie with a .920 sv% and they are asking for one with a .927 sv%.

gillis would be upgrading his division rival's sv% by .006 points for two years in exchange for #7,#37, and a roster player.

IMO, unless Schneider nixed the deal, Gillis is the bigger fool. By a hair.

Avatar
#170 DSF
July 01 2013, 12:42AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

MacT admits failure:

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/edmonton-oilers/With+draft+over+Oilers+look+free+agent/8600527/story.html

Avatar
#171 nuge2nail
July 01 2013, 12:48AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
K_Mart wrote:

Penner for Klefbom, Teubert, Moroz.

Penner has done nothing since we ditched that waste of space with the so called good corsi numbers. He scored one good playoff goal for LA and has otherwise been slowly turning into a giant bag of milk.

Klefbom will show us this year if we won the deal or not.

Ryan smyth for Colin fraser... although it's not really significant, and it's barely even a win.

Oiler Domination To Follow

We don't know if we even won that trade yet, so you couldn't name one trade?

Penner won his second Stanley Cup, and Klefbom should be a top 4 defenseman for us for the next decade- at least I hope.

Beyond pathetic, not you - the management team.

Avatar
#172 Walter Sobchak
July 01 2013, 02:45AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Smokey wrote:

You would do MPS for a declining Clutterbuck. Crazy.

Coburn is no where near worth a seventh pick rated.as the second best defensemen on the board.

We probably offered similar picks as TO. They got him. Sometimes teams trade outta conference. You have no clue whether they tried to match or not.

I would not overpay, you would. Rebuilding sucks, but many teams start making key trades when their ready to compete. MacT was tested, he luckily did not overpay for what he needed. Its going to be another year in the desert.

Paajarvi for a declining Clutterbuck??

ok, before you make crap up, look it up, you make yourself look dumb.

Clutterbuck is 25 years old and hes declining!!!

jesus, are you ever hoodwinked.

Clutterbuck has been a regular NHL player for 5 years! averaging around 25 to 30 points per.

Paajarvi....not so much.

League leader in hits, is an aggressive player, everything Paajarvi is not, everything the Oilers are so dearly lacking.

Where did I say give the 7th up for Colburn?? nice try.

Where is there an overpay? Where?

Also trading in the conference means jack sh!t. well established myth.

Last thing, the Oiler are out of draft picking, its time to add established talent through trade!

Detroit seems to not pick first because the tend to trade there picks for intimidate help.

The Oilers should try that sometime. going on a record 8 years of zero playoffs!

Avatar
#173 Norm
July 01 2013, 06:22AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

I compare this popcorn-fart performance at the draft by the Oil with what the Canucks have waiting for them this off-season into the coming season, if only in part.

The Nurse selection was the right one and I'm okay with it.

Mac made a huge error imo by announcing and naming publicly what he wants to do with Horcoff and Hemmer. Gillis did the exact same thing in Van. and now has one pissed-off Luongo to deal with and no Cory Schneider. This could easily leak over into the coming season for both organizations. Oiler fans let down by ownership and management once again.

I think this is going to potentially turn out badly for both organizations because their respective GM's said too much and too early to appease a restless fan base.

Furthermore what effect does this have on Dubnyk's confidence going forward?

Allowing that ninny Tambellini to trade away those two picks may have contributed to the draft perfmance. By giving the 3rd and 4th picks away at the trade deadline for jack squat helped the whole mess develop. Mac gets a fail from me and that's not the grade I wanted to give him after his 1st draft.

Let's see what the free agent circus brings and I hope he pulls up his britches and gets comething meaningful done.

Avatar
#174 madjam
July 01 2013, 07:14AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
WhattaMike wrote:

@madjam...come on bud...if you are gonna put that out about Lowe against MacT watch the draft again cause Lowe was right next to MacT and Howson shaking hands with the Nurse family....Geez!!!

I can't believe the gall of Gillis telling the vancouver news that we made the Schneider deal with N.J to get into the top 10 for Horvat when he was advising to MacT to give him the #7, a 2nd rounder and an NHL roster player...of which...MacT was willing to give apparently (according to reporters).

Hope Luongo says I demand to get out of Vancouver with Gillis still here!!!!!

Awesome that MacT kept the pick to get a future high ended type top 2 defender named Darnell Nurse instead... without throwing away a 2nd rounder which also helped fill the prospect system with 5 more picks...

I said I didn't see it that way , just wondered if anyone else seen it differently beyond the fan who thought it was evident . Once again I did not see anything . One question I do have is , was Lowe at the draft and if he was not do you know why ?

Avatar
#175 K_Mart
July 01 2013, 07:57AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Yesterday was definitely a loss for oilers management, but I don't see how it could have been avoided.

I'm willing to bet that oilers offered more for clutterbuck, but again, minnesota might not want to deal with a conference rival.

If MacT did offer as much as people claim for Schneider, than be happy he was turned down, that would have been terrible.

The Bolland deal seems odd though, I can't help but wonder how little the oilers offered for a guy who almost certainly would put up 15g and 15a minimum for us next season. He garnered a 2nd rd pick and two fourth rd picks... ... Again I feel like MacT either got turned down because he is in the same conference, or he was on the phone when the bolland deal went down... lol.. he seemed to be trying really hard at least.

No doubt the day was an epic fail, but i'm not sure how much better it could have gone.

Avatar
#176 Quicksilver ballet
July 01 2013, 08:11AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Not all that big on Coburn, but it was cool to see he did have the Oilers on his list of possible destinations he'd consider going to. I like the two day draft rather than this one day event. Doing the first round one night, and the balance the next day, gives teams a time out to re-evaluate and work on other tasks as well. MacTavish probably feels like he didn't know what hit him yesterday. Nobodies fault but their own. He did have 6 weeks prior to do the groundwork for what he wanted to accomplish.

Avatar
#177 madjam
July 01 2013, 08:27AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Abort , Abort the mission - retreat . Lost in space and time continuum . Mission failure . Gm sets the goals and is expected to accomplish them . Once again our Gm has failed to produce the lofty goals he has set for himself , organization and team . This cannot continue nor will it be tolerated for long I predict . MacT. may know players , but looks like his forte is questionable for obtaining that talent . Default positioning is admission of failure and does little to improve team .

I was one of the first to herald Mact. for GM when he left before . Now I am wavering , as I may have been mistaken . The art of dealing does not appear to be MacT.'s strong suit , and we desperately need somebody that is . We need a GM that can set goals and accomplish them if we are to move forward here . Disallusioned at more failures .

Avatar
#178 15w40
July 01 2013, 09:06AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
K_Mart wrote:

"Told asking price for Schneider to Oilers was the 7, a 2nd and a good young player. High price to trade within division, Oil passed."

— Ryan Rishaug (@TSNRyanRishaug) June 30, 2013

http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2013/07/01/vancouver-canucks-premium-edmonton-oilers-cory-schneider/

So for those of you attacking MacT for making such a terrible offer, bite your tongue. He didn't make the offer, Gillis set the price and MacT turned him down. I, for one, am happy MacT said no. Now watch, everyone will blame him for not matching the price and getting Schneider.

Basically Gillis set out to put the screws to MacTavish. Making that trade would have people calling for him to be committed.

As far as stocking goaltenders, not that he is in Schneider's league but looks like a solid prospect - there is one just down the road that played for the Rebels.

Patrik Bartosak is the reigning WHL & CHL goaltender of the year and a free agent.

Not saying he is the 2nd coming of Roy but would be good to add to the pipeline.

EDIT - I see that LA selected - him, not too sure why the Oilers didn't use one of the multiple late picks on him.

Avatar
#179 BArmstrong
July 01 2013, 09:06AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@K_Mart

http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2013/07/01/vancouver-canucks-premium-edmonton-oilers-cory-schneider/

Too Funny - the first comment after JW's piece is exactly what you predicted... "An extra 2nd rounder and second tier prospect! Would not have hurt the oil and the would have got the best player in the deal."

This is great entertainment - I can't understand why my wife watches The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, she can't understand why I watch Hockey:)

Avatar
#180 Smokey
July 01 2013, 09:19AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Walter Sobchak wrote:

Paajarvi for a declining Clutterbuck??

ok, before you make crap up, look it up, you make yourself look dumb.

Clutterbuck is 25 years old and hes declining!!!

jesus, are you ever hoodwinked.

Clutterbuck has been a regular NHL player for 5 years! averaging around 25 to 30 points per.

Paajarvi....not so much.

League leader in hits, is an aggressive player, everything Paajarvi is not, everything the Oilers are so dearly lacking.

Where did I say give the 7th up for Colburn?? nice try.

Where is there an overpay? Where?

Also trading in the conference means jack sh!t. well established myth.

Last thing, the Oiler are out of draft picking, its time to add established talent through trade!

Detroit seems to not pick first because the tend to trade there picks for intimidate help.

The Oilers should try that sometime. going on a record 8 years of zero playoffs!

Look up Cal's numbers the last two years. I looked up the stats before I posted, read scouting reports at least, but I'm the one who pulls stuff outta my butt. Maybe you should at least read his stats. MPS is not what you give up for a 20 point guy who doesn't hit quite like he did two years ago. The assumption is MPS ceiling is higher and is on a uptrend Minny should be very happy to get a skilled, fast winger.

There were what 3-4 major trades yesterday, and one blockbuster. MacT admitted he failed, but thats because he talked and undelivered. We need grit bad, I wish Bolland would have shaked loose.

Avatar
#181 Smokey
July 01 2013, 09:23AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
K_Mart wrote:

HAHA! wow, so predictable sometimes. Funny how much value people put on an extra .006 sv% points

Someone pointed out and I only quoting thats the difference of like 13 goals. That could be a few more wins.

Avatar
#182 Smokey
July 01 2013, 09:26AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
K_Mart wrote:

"Told asking price for Schneider to Oilers was the 7, a 2nd and a good young player. High price to trade within division, Oil passed."

— Ryan Rishaug (@TSNRyanRishaug) June 30, 2013

http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2013/07/01/vancouver-canucks-premium-edmonton-oilers-cory-schneider/

So for those of you attacking MacT for making such a terrible offer, bite your tongue. He didn't make the offer, Gillis set the price and MacT turned him down. I, for one, am happy MacT said no. Now watch, everyone will blame him for not matching the price and getting Schneider.

TSN is contrudicting itself. The panel said that was the offer and Richaug said that was the asking price.

Avatar
#183 K_Mart
July 01 2013, 09:41AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Smokey wrote:

TSN is contrudicting itself. The panel said that was the offer and Richaug said that was the asking price.

Link please? I have heard posters claim they 'heard' the panel say that was the offer, but the writing indicates it was the asking price not the offer. Hard to believe someone's memory is more reliable than the reality of what is in writing.

Avatar
#184 Walter Sobchak
July 01 2013, 09:47AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Smokey wrote:

Look up Cal's numbers the last two years. I looked up the stats before I posted, read scouting reports at least, but I'm the one who pulls stuff outta my butt. Maybe you should at least read his stats. MPS is not what you give up for a 20 point guy who doesn't hit quite like he did two years ago. The assumption is MPS ceiling is higher and is on a uptrend Minny should be very happy to get a skilled, fast winger.

There were what 3-4 major trades yesterday, and one blockbuster. MacT admitted he failed, but thats because he talked and undelivered. We need grit bad, I wish Bolland would have shaked loose.

I said between 25 and 30 points look up his average!!

Your trying to argue your point that at age 25 Clutterbuck has somehow declined in play!

He got hurt last by a cheap shot from Taylor Hall other then that he's was still on pace for another 25-30 point season.

But you go to war against Clutterbuck with this.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=117142

Avatar
#185 Helden Dave
July 01 2013, 09:55AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

I refuse to pass judgement until the body of off season work is evaluated. No one fixes a team via draft day alone.

Yes, we heard some rumblings about trades, but those are not the only players available and it was not the only day to get something done.

There are 30 teams in this league and most of the players in play were coveted by more than one team. No single manager can force the potential trade partner to make the trade.

NYI payed a pretty brutal price for Clutterbuck in my opinion. The Oilers could not match that deal without being stupid.

Let's suppose the Oilers DID offer all that for Schneider (crazy) and he still went to NJ for a pick. How can Mac T be blamed for that... it doesn't even make sense? Obviously, Gillis had no intention of dealing with the Oilers in regards to that player. Nothing to be done about that.

Bolland is a good pick up for Toronto, but a 2nd and two 4ths is still currency in the draft. Once again, who's to say the Oilers weren't in on it. There are more Bolland-type players than just Bolland.

We are all waiting for action and I think we'll get some, but before I pass judgment I will wait until I see the whole process.

Avatar
#186 K_Mart
July 01 2013, 09:57AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Walter Sobchak wrote:

I said between 25 and 30 points look up his average!!

Your trying to argue your point that at age 25 Clutterbuck has somehow declined in play!

He got hurt last by a cheap shot from Taylor Hall other then that he's was still on pace for another 25-30 point season.

But you go to war against Clutterbuck with this.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=117142

I think offensively paajarvi definitely has a little bit more to provide than clutterbuck, but not much.

Clutterbuck - 110pts in 336 games MPS - 58pts in 163 games so... 119 pts in 336 gms

MPS is only three years younger so that is a wash. It's the rest of their games that make the difference.

Clutterbuck is annoying to play against, phyiscal, and fairly sound defensively.

I'd bet paajarvi has a slight edge on him in the defensive zone, but paaj is soft as butter which is so annoying.

Clutterbuck tends to take bad penalties, while paaj is good at drawing penalties. All in all, i'd say their value is pretty well equal.

Avatar
#187 DrunkGuyTy
July 01 2013, 10:13AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@Dman09

Would you have preferred that he said ahead of time that he was going to do a deal even, if it meant getting screwed and followed through on that?

People need to quit taking everything that comes out of these guys' mouths as gospel. Guys in these positions realize there needs to be a willing partner on the other end and face it, each one is trying to hose the other one over. Some people need to reconnect with reality.

I believe the intent is there, the try is there and the commitment is there from Mac-T. I guess you need to better be sure that you never set a goal for yourself unless you are 100% certain you're going to accomplish it.

I guess the good thing is, I don't drop any cash on the team besides a new cap every year or two and I have enough of a life outside of the Oilers that if they suck, they suck. - but I don't they will continue to for long. If they do, there are always choices. But since I've cheered for them since '79, I'm still a die-hard fan and I doubt I'll change.

Avatar
#188 The Other Ron Burgundy
July 01 2013, 10:14AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Bolland offers many lessons. 27 years old. 1 year left at $3.375 cap hit. 6 feet, 185 pounds. Last 3 seasons 88 points, plus 4, 103 PIM.

Horcoff is 34 years old. 2 years left at $5.5 cap hit. 6'1", 208 lbs. Last 3 seasons 73 pts, minus 16, 94 PIM.

Lesson 1 - Bolland isn't that great; Willis thinks he's not a fit for Edmonton - I disagree only to the extent that I would say he's a better fit than Horcoff, but neither player is ideal.

Lesson 2 - If all Chicago got for the cheaper, younger Stanley Cup Champion was a low 3rd rounder, a 4th this year and a 4th next year, we will be lucky to get a 4th rounder for a 34-yr-old Horc and one of the great albatross contracts of all time. Lucky. Or we get to eat part of that albatross and then maybe we get the return Chicago got. Then the posts for the last 24 hours I suppose are "I can't believe that's all we got!"...

As an aside, I'd love to know what the deal between Lombardi and MacT would have looked like had Fucale slipped one more spot.

Avatar
#189 madjam
July 01 2013, 10:15AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

I find it ironic if not hilarious that so many people on ON back and make excuses for our GM , even though he admits failure . Gm's job is to set goals and accomplish them -bottom line . For the last 7+ years the fans not only have not had a Gm that could meet their goals , but have an abundance of fans praising them and making excuses for them in their failures . How do you expect to get ahead if your Gms continually fall short of their goals ?

Apparantly we want to avoid overpaying in UFA market - so that appears out . Apparantly they do not want to enter buy out market as well . That leaves trades , and we have already seen that does not appear we are any good at that either . Final option is default action which does little to nothing except maybe make us weaker . Stu stated we were comfortable with that default action . Well let it be stated I am not , and don't see any reason to think it will improve our on ice performance . Even buy out market has viable NHL talent far better than our default option . I'm fed up with making excuses for them , and if more were , we might get a Gm that does set goals and accomplishes those goals .

Avatar
#190 The Other Ron Burgundy
July 01 2013, 10:17AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
The Other Ron Burgundy wrote:

Bolland offers many lessons. 27 years old. 1 year left at $3.375 cap hit. 6 feet, 185 pounds. Last 3 seasons 88 points, plus 4, 103 PIM.

Horcoff is 34 years old. 2 years left at $5.5 cap hit. 6'1", 208 lbs. Last 3 seasons 73 pts, minus 16, 94 PIM.

Lesson 1 - Bolland isn't that great; Willis thinks he's not a fit for Edmonton - I disagree only to the extent that I would say he's a better fit than Horcoff, but neither player is ideal.

Lesson 2 - If all Chicago got for the cheaper, younger Stanley Cup Champion was a low 3rd rounder, a 4th this year and a 4th next year, we will be lucky to get a 4th rounder for a 34-yr-old Horc and one of the great albatross contracts of all time. Lucky. Or we get to eat part of that albatross and then maybe we get the return Chicago got. Then the posts for the last 24 hours I suppose are "I can't believe that's all we got!"...

As an aside, I'd love to know what the deal between Lombardi and MacT would have looked like had Fucale slipped one more spot.

Sorry, typo - meant low 2nd rounder for Bolland. Same point though.

Avatar
#191 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
July 01 2013, 10:18AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
K_Mart wrote:

I think offensively paajarvi definitely has a little bit more to provide than clutterbuck, but not much.

Clutterbuck - 110pts in 336 games MPS - 58pts in 163 games so... 119 pts in 336 gms

MPS is only three years younger so that is a wash. It's the rest of their games that make the difference.

Clutterbuck is annoying to play against, phyiscal, and fairly sound defensively.

I'd bet paajarvi has a slight edge on him in the defensive zone, but paaj is soft as butter which is so annoying.

Clutterbuck tends to take bad penalties, while paaj is good at drawing penalties. All in all, i'd say their value is pretty well equal.

ONLY 3 years?!?........3 years of development time in the NHL is like 21 years in real life.....

If PRV was 25 and playing like he is now.....he'd have been traded along time ago....

Avatar
#192 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
July 01 2013, 10:23AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Being a GM on trade day and getting Bolland.....good

Being a GM on trade day and getting Schieder for a 9th......very good

Being a GM on trade day and seeing Garth Snows name on your call display.....PRICELESS!!!

Avatar
#193 Smokey
July 01 2013, 10:30AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Walter Sobchak wrote:

I said between 25 and 30 points look up his average!!

Your trying to argue your point that at age 25 Clutterbuck has somehow declined in play!

He got hurt last by a cheap shot from Taylor Hall other then that he's was still on pace for another 25-30 point season.

But you go to war against Clutterbuck with this.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=117142

Teams evaluate on trends or averages? Are contracts handed out this way to player? So a player at 30 years of age averages 80 points per year, and the going rate is 6.million. The last two years hes averaged 50 points, would you pay him based on a 10 year career or on pay him on his last two years. So take Clutterbuck points the last 3 years. Look at where he has trended. Are you paying him on a 25-30 point career average ( not looking at intangibles for arguement sake) you state or on what he has done particularly in the last couple years. He wasn't on pace for 20 points last year and was he hitting the same amount? He peaked early and you know his ceiling, and with the abrasive style he plays your taking a calculated risk trading a player with with a higher ceiling. Look I'm not arguing about getting him, NY Islanders gave uo a former fifth overall pick, who probably should of gone a few spots lower I'll admit. Bolland goes for what a second and two fourths? Who's abetter player between Bolland and Clutterbuck, who gives you better value. Nino for Clutterbuck was ugly, you run.away real fast.

Avatar
#194 K_Mart
July 01 2013, 10:30AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty) wrote:

ONLY 3 years?!?........3 years of development time in the NHL is like 21 years in real life.....

If PRV was 25 and playing like he is now.....he'd have been traded along time ago....

That's debatable I suppose.

3 years is 60% the length of the average 5 year nhl career. And a lot can happen to a player in that time span... but... that doesn't mean that every player (or even half of the players) get drastically better from age 22 to age 25.

Looking at the two players right now though... I don't see how mps can ever be more than a 35 pt player. I could maybe see him peaking with one 40-50 pt season, but for the most part being a reliable third line winger who puts up 30-35 pts is all I see him being.

the value of being 22 yrs old vs. 25 yrs old is real, but i'm just not sure how large it is.

Avatar
#195 Clarko
July 01 2013, 10:55AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
K_Mart wrote:

That's debatable I suppose.

3 years is 60% the length of the average 5 year nhl career. And a lot can happen to a player in that time span... but... that doesn't mean that every player (or even half of the players) get drastically better from age 22 to age 25.

Looking at the two players right now though... I don't see how mps can ever be more than a 35 pt player. I could maybe see him peaking with one 40-50 pt season, but for the most part being a reliable third line winger who puts up 30-35 pts is all I see him being.

the value of being 22 yrs old vs. 25 yrs old is real, but i'm just not sure how large it is.

I don't think you give up on Paajarvi yet...he still has a lot of potential. He had 34 points in his rookie season, had a terrible 2nd season, but was actually on pace for over 30 points last year in an 82 game season (16 points in 42 games).

And not that he is going to be Claude Giroux, but his point totals from ages 21-25 were 27, 47, 76, 93, and 48 (in 48 games). The point is that I don't think Paajarvi is anywhere close to his ceiling yet. He was clearly using his big body more last season and we all hope he progresses in that area.

Avatar
#196 nunyour
July 01 2013, 10:55AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
russ99 wrote:

I don't get the angst, the Oilers drafted very well today, especially with the first and them extra picks..

Look at some of the trades today (other than Bolland who asked to go to Toronto which is why the price was so cheap) and you can see that the Oilers don't have the same level of quality to move, all we have are the unmovable kids, some poor/underperforming vets and average to below average prospects.

MacT can only do what he can do, when Neiderreiter and McBain and high picks are available and we have nothing comparable to offer.

Nobody is going to gift us assets for Pitlick, Lander, Musil or Horcoff and Hemsky for that matter. Gotta give to get and we don't have much to give, which is a massive failing of Tambellini's and not on MacT.

Hopefully MacT can make a splash in FA instead.

We have a bingo,the oilers have nobody that anybody wants.

Avatar
#197 Tom
July 01 2013, 11:14AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
madjam wrote:

I said I didn't see it that way , just wondered if anyone else seen it differently beyond the fan who thought it was evident . Once again I did not see anything . One question I do have is , was Lowe at the draft and if he was not do you know why ?

Lowe was at the draft. Saw him shaking hands with the Nurse family.

Avatar
#198 Edsez
July 01 2013, 11:17AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

that after hearing the asking price for Schneider put me in the "MacT made the right call camp". I predict another step forward from Dubnyk next season.

I'm comfortable keeping Paajarvi and finding a "Clutterbuck"-type, at the $2-3 mil/year he likely is looking for, on the open market. Paajarvi will turn out to be good value if they can get him in the $5 mil over 3 years range.

I'm happy Nurse was the choice at #7 (after Lindolm & Monahan were taken)

it's a beautiful morning out there, have a great Canada Day

Avatar
#199 nuge2nail
July 01 2013, 11:19AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Oiler Domination To Follow

On this team Clutterbuck > Paarajvi. I can't even believe we are discussing this.

On this team Schneider > Nurse + Yamikov. I can't believe we are discussing this.

On this team the tsn monkey > management. This is open for discussion.

Avatar
#200 Dockstaff
July 01 2013, 11:28AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@nuge2nail

Nuge2Nail, are you suggesting the Oil made a mistake in dealing Penner? Yes he has two cup rings, so does their training staff and Darryl Sutter could barely stand Penner. So much so that Penner sat on the bench for large sections of important playoff games.

There is no contest, a bag of sticks for Penner would be a win.

Comments are closed for this article.