Craig MacTavish: Making not so bold moves?

Jonathan Willis
June 30 2013 06:55PM

Edmonton Oilers general manager Craig MacTavish was busy early at the 2013 NHL Draft, but the moves were less bold than many may have hoped for. Second round picks, as promised, were the currency of choice but rather than shoring up the Oilers in the short-term Mactavish opted to re-stock the team's supply of draft picks, which had been depleted entering the draft.

MacTavish pulled off a pair of trades, and while he failed to add NHL-ready talent to the Oilers he did manage to turn one second round draft pick into five selections in the two moves:

  • Edmonton traded their 37th overall pick to Los Angeles for the 57th, 88th and 96th picks
  • Edmonton then traded the 57th pick to St. Louis for the 83rd, 94th and 113th picks

All told, MacTavish sacrificed an early second round pick for selections at 83rd, 88th, 94th, 96th and 113th overall. Los Angeles picked Valentin Zykov; the Oilers instead took flyers on five different players:

  • Bogdan Yakimov: A 6'5" Russian centre with real potential but footspeed issues
  • Anton Slepyshev: A high-scoring Russian who was controversially passed over by everyone in 2012
  • Jackson Houck: A character player who led a weak Vancouver Giants team in scoring
  • Kyle Platzer: A defensive specialist buried on a strong London team
  • Aidan Muir: A 6'4" power forward playing midget hockey 

The two trades do a pair of important things for the Oilers.

Firstly, Edmonton re-stocked what was a rather barren cupboard of picks. Thanks to trades with Dallas for Mark Fistric and Florida for Jerred Smithson, the Oilers didn't have a third or fourth round draft pick and without making trades would have come away with only six players; instead they sacrifice quality in Zykov in exchange for quantity. Given the boom-or-bust nature of the draft, it's understandable why the team would want as many choices as possible.

Secondly, all five players chosen with those picks are forwards. The Oilers have a pretty decent set of prospects on defence, but up front the development pipeline is getting pretty empty. This gives the team an opportunity to load up on players who can potentially play roles up front for Oklahoma and, in a few years, perhaps for Edmonton. It's obvious this was a position of need for the Oilers, and they've done their best to address it - with picks still to come, seven of their first eight selections (and all five acquired via trade) have been forwards, with first round pick Darnell Nurse the only exception.

For Oilers fans, it would have been nice to see the team improve in the short-term by adding NHL players, and the rumours of the team pursuing Cory Schneider and Braydon Coburn and Cal Clutterbuck and others won't move the dial forward on the team one inch. But it's also easy to see why Craig MacTavish made the choices he did, and his work on draft day did help address positions of organizational weakness.

Much more, however, will need to happen in the coming week or two.

Recently around the Nation Network

The big news of the day came, not from Edmonton, but rather from Vancouver, as their ongoing goaltending saga finally saw a significant shift. The Canucks opted to hang their hopes on the untradable Roberto Luongo, instead sending presumptive starter Cory Schneider to New Jersey in exchange for the ninth overall pick (which was used on centre Bo Horvat). At Canucks Army, Thomas Drance says he has conflicting thoughts on the process:

I'll admit that I'm of two minds about the deal that sent Cory Schneider to the New Jersey Devils straight up for the pick that became Bo Horvat. On the one hand, a top-ten pick in a deep draft is a solid return for an unproven starter. On the other, this was handled embarrassingly by the Canucks organization, the clubs overall indecision on this front is not a good look, and it ultimately worked out poorly for the club.

Click the link to read more, or alternately, feel free check out some of my other pieces here:

74b7cedc5d8bfbe88cf071309e98d2c3
Jonathan Willis is a freelance writer. He currently works for Oilers Nation, Sportsnet, the Edmonton Journal and Bleacher Report. He's co-written three books and worked for myriad websites, including Grantland, ESPN, The Score, and Hockey Prospectus. He was previously the founder and managing editor of Copper & Blue.
Avatar
#151 nuge2nail
July 01 2013, 12:48AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
K_Mart wrote:

Penner for Klefbom, Teubert, Moroz.

Penner has done nothing since we ditched that waste of space with the so called good corsi numbers. He scored one good playoff goal for LA and has otherwise been slowly turning into a giant bag of milk.

Klefbom will show us this year if we won the deal or not.

Ryan smyth for Colin fraser... although it's not really significant, and it's barely even a win.

Oiler Domination To Follow

We don't know if we even won that trade yet, so you couldn't name one trade?

Penner won his second Stanley Cup, and Klefbom should be a top 4 defenseman for us for the next decade- at least I hope.

Beyond pathetic, not you - the management team.

Avatar
#152 MBO_99
July 01 2013, 01:17AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers

I would say this is very close to a fail on the Oilers part. We did get a great first round pick and something this organization needs, however!! This should have been the forum to get both Horcoff and Hemsky out of the picture. I am guessing that like most Oiler Fans the club over values a barely 3rd line center on most teams in Horc and still can not find a sucker for a injury prone skill player in Hemsky. Looking at all the players rumored to be for sale,and then sold at the draft, Edmonton missed out!! It appears for immediate help the Oilers will be looking to over pay UFA's to make any kind of impact this upcomming season. This will be a tall order considering they also got to move out salary to do so. So my question is this: Who would deal for Horc and Hemsky at this point and with a not so deep UFA pool, who could come in to make a vetern presence on this team with top 6 skill? Where does the Oil get a top pairing Dman and a leader for the blue line?? Bold moves...Nice Talk and no action!! We will be rebuilding for a couple more years yet at this pace!! My opinion...Buy Out Horc and Belanger this year and use the cash to find better...also stop thinking you will get something more valuable for Hemsky...Bottom line is he can not play a full season and other GM's do not value him highly!!

Avatar
#153 The Oilers Shot Clock
July 01 2013, 01:45AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers

There was only 3 trades worth mentioning today. Why are we upset MacT wasn't in on one of them? He didn't over pay = win. This is completely different than Tambos reluctance to even make a call. Mac was busy all day. The climate just wasn't right as evident by the fact that 24 other teams didnt do anything significant either trade wise.Fish weren't biting. Now that every team gets to turn their cards over and look at them, there will be trades. I don't like the idea of the panic draft floor trades anyways. Case in point Gillis. That trade he made was rushed, and obviously so. I don't think MacT is happy with his day, but there's still a lot of time. The fact he was in on most deals untill the end tells us he's working.

I think the Flames had an excellent day, even if they reached a bit once in the first round, and I think Buffalo won the draft for the second year in a row.

Avatar
#154 Smokey
July 01 2013, 02:11AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers
Walter Sobchak wrote:

Your making excuses for a team that is wandering the desert.

Paajarvi is not an immediate upgrade to what NYI offdered?

You cant offer up the 7th overall for a ready NHL defensmen? I would think so.

you couldn't use your 2014 pick to aid in getting another player?

Bolland will go were Chicago trades him too. period!

The Oilers were not prepared to match simple as that!

Sorry, Tomorrow the same team will still be wandering in the desert, looking to now overpay a UFA.

P.S next years crop of UFA defensmen is also another reason today's pick was wasted.

You would do MPS for a declining Clutterbuck. Crazy.

Coburn is no where near worth a seventh pick rated.as the second best defensemen on the board.

We probably offered similar picks as TO. They got him. Sometimes teams trade outta conference. You have no clue whether they tried to match or not.

I would not overpay, you would. Rebuilding sucks, but many teams start making key trades when their ready to compete. MacT was tested, he luckily did not overpay for what he needed. Its going to be another year in the desert.

Avatar
#155 peppran
July 01 2013, 02:23AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers

Who cares anymore, nothing happens, just alot of talk about this and that, if there are no deals out there dont talk about bold moves in the media.

Bold moves... Trading av few picks that probably never becomes anything.

Bold moves to me is trading some of the kids for something else.

MacT is Tambo 2.0 (just more talk).

Avatar
#156 Walter Sobchak
July 01 2013, 02:45AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Smokey wrote:

You would do MPS for a declining Clutterbuck. Crazy.

Coburn is no where near worth a seventh pick rated.as the second best defensemen on the board.

We probably offered similar picks as TO. They got him. Sometimes teams trade outta conference. You have no clue whether they tried to match or not.

I would not overpay, you would. Rebuilding sucks, but many teams start making key trades when their ready to compete. MacT was tested, he luckily did not overpay for what he needed. Its going to be another year in the desert.

Paajarvi for a declining Clutterbuck??

ok, before you make crap up, look it up, you make yourself look dumb.

Clutterbuck is 25 years old and hes declining!!!

jesus, are you ever hoodwinked.

Clutterbuck has been a regular NHL player for 5 years! averaging around 25 to 30 points per.

Paajarvi....not so much.

League leader in hits, is an aggressive player, everything Paajarvi is not, everything the Oilers are so dearly lacking.

Where did I say give the 7th up for Colburn?? nice try.

Where is there an overpay? Where?

Also trading in the conference means jack sh!t. well established myth.

Last thing, the Oiler are out of draft picking, its time to add established talent through trade!

Detroit seems to not pick first because the tend to trade there picks for intimidate help.

The Oilers should try that sometime. going on a record 8 years of zero playoffs!

Avatar
#157 Reagan
July 01 2013, 03:57AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers

Did you guys honestly expect a miracle yesterday. Major player dumps and trades like what the Oilers want to do are not going to happen at the draft unless it's a slapshot into the right corner. Is Horcoff and Hemsky really draft table trade bait? I wouldn't think so. After Clutterbuck, Shneider being dealt to eastern teams it was more of an avoidance of dealing inner conference than dealing with the Oilers. Both clutch players with character and skill. No surprise e didn't land them. Coburn is going to cost the Oilers a pile, if the continue to push this week.

Avatar
#158 hemi
July 01 2013, 05:35AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers

Hate to admit it but I am definitely on the fence with the Oil Management Team's Draft Day Performance. On one hand, I am so relieved that MacT did not sell the farm to buy/trade for immediate help. I am thrilled of whom we selected though!

On the other hand, my tiredness of supporting a non winning team over the years wanted something solid to cheer about but alas, my cheering has been once again replaced with the old wait and see approach.

Buy-outs, UFA's and plain old trades may be the way we do it this summer. I refuse to be like the repetitive negative posters here and continually put the management team under the bus at every opportunity, so I will remain at the worst, a fence sitter for the time being.

I am just an ordinary fan whom so desperately wishes for better days for the Mighty Oil.

Avatar
#159 Norm
July 01 2013, 06:22AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

I compare this popcorn-fart performance at the draft by the Oil with what the Canucks have waiting for them this off-season into the coming season, if only in part.

The Nurse selection was the right one and I'm okay with it.

Mac made a huge error imo by announcing and naming publicly what he wants to do with Horcoff and Hemmer. Gillis did the exact same thing in Van. and now has one pissed-off Luongo to deal with and no Cory Schneider. This could easily leak over into the coming season for both organizations. Oiler fans let down by ownership and management once again.

I think this is going to potentially turn out badly for both organizations because their respective GM's said too much and too early to appease a restless fan base.

Furthermore what effect does this have on Dubnyk's confidence going forward?

Allowing that ninny Tambellini to trade away those two picks may have contributed to the draft perfmance. By giving the 3rd and 4th picks away at the trade deadline for jack squat helped the whole mess develop. Mac gets a fail from me and that's not the grade I wanted to give him after his 1st draft.

Let's see what the free agent circus brings and I hope he pulls up his britches and gets comething meaningful done.

Avatar
#160 madjam
July 01 2013, 07:14AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
WhattaMike wrote:

@madjam...come on bud...if you are gonna put that out about Lowe against MacT watch the draft again cause Lowe was right next to MacT and Howson shaking hands with the Nurse family....Geez!!!

I can't believe the gall of Gillis telling the vancouver news that we made the Schneider deal with N.J to get into the top 10 for Horvat when he was advising to MacT to give him the #7, a 2nd rounder and an NHL roster player...of which...MacT was willing to give apparently (according to reporters).

Hope Luongo says I demand to get out of Vancouver with Gillis still here!!!!!

Awesome that MacT kept the pick to get a future high ended type top 2 defender named Darnell Nurse instead... without throwing away a 2nd rounder which also helped fill the prospect system with 5 more picks...

I said I didn't see it that way , just wondered if anyone else seen it differently beyond the fan who thought it was evident . Once again I did not see anything . One question I do have is , was Lowe at the draft and if he was not do you know why ?

Avatar
#161 K_Mart
July 01 2013, 07:57AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Yesterday was definitely a loss for oilers management, but I don't see how it could have been avoided.

I'm willing to bet that oilers offered more for clutterbuck, but again, minnesota might not want to deal with a conference rival.

If MacT did offer as much as people claim for Schneider, than be happy he was turned down, that would have been terrible.

The Bolland deal seems odd though, I can't help but wonder how little the oilers offered for a guy who almost certainly would put up 15g and 15a minimum for us next season. He garnered a 2nd rd pick and two fourth rd picks... ... Again I feel like MacT either got turned down because he is in the same conference, or he was on the phone when the bolland deal went down... lol.. he seemed to be trying really hard at least.

No doubt the day was an epic fail, but i'm not sure how much better it could have gone.

Avatar
#162 NewAgeSys
July 01 2013, 08:11AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty) wrote:

Ya....kinda makes me wonder if theGM Old Boys Club were intent on teaching the new kid on the block a lesson after all his public yapping about making 8 moves.....kinda making it look like the rest of these GMs just haven't been doing their jobs......

Craig Mactavishes peer group is collectively holding their breath.

I wouldnt even say the Islanders and Oilers of the 80s had a roster like we have here now to start from.

We shall recive naught but kicks to our collective Crown Royal Bag from all of our opponents until we establish ourselves as a difference maker in the standings, then teams will try to cataslyse their fates off of ours and will look to sandbag each other possibly giving us a tactical break here and there to screw their competition. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, type of mentality.

Teams are hoping to hold us back as much as they can league wide now, not just in our backyard.

We are poised to dominate teams like Chicago and the Penguins, we will be displacing them as Top Dogs wayyyy to early. There will be some real dogfights next year. And they all see it coming.

We cant judge Mac-T until someone is wlling to enter his sandbox and play with him.

They have good reason to keep clear of us. Dont feed the Giant man, keep him as skinny and weak as you can for as long as you can.

I think it was a very well managed Draft by the Oilers, we were patient, we had a solid plan we stuck to, we made no knee-jerk reactions, we sent out LOTS of feelers to other teams and showed willingness to exchange assets, we were reactive with our lower picks when the assets we targeted were gone early, but at the end of the day as per the well managed template we made what looks like the best decision for the team.

From the Oilers position they made the optimal choice, I had Nurse on my radar already. All you need to do is look at his lineage and you realise you have a potential anomoly on your hands, his relatives are BIG PACKAGES man, and you dont usually see The Big Package playing hockey, this young man WILL be an NHL difference maker, and judging by how he likes to play aside from the hitting, his stickwork and managment of his sphere of influence is already so good he might be held back and sent in a regressive direction if he spends to much time in OKC.

P.S, ha ha ha, I think he is kidding himself if he thinks he will be playing at less than 220, I am seeing 240+ when he fills in by 25 yrs old, and I dont think we will need to wait very long, by 20 he will be The Big Package we were looking for.

Dallas Eakins will teach him how to valuate his body weight as per his genetics and nothing else, he will teach him to optimise his genetics and stay in balanced Hockey form.

Mac-T and the Scouts get an B+, for first building and then properly implementing a pre-draft template, they showed focus and direction and were steadfast in the face of tremendous degrees of pressure, some self-induced and some out of their control.

Lets move forward now , whats next, un-restricted free agents?

What is next on the agenda, time is short the regular season is coming fast.

.

Avatar
#163 Quicksilver ballet
July 01 2013, 08:11AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Not all that big on Coburn, but it was cool to see he did have the Oilers on his list of possible destinations he'd consider going to. I like the two day draft rather than this one day event. Doing the first round one night, and the balance the next day, gives teams a time out to re-evaluate and work on other tasks as well. MacTavish probably feels like he didn't know what hit him yesterday. Nobodies fault but their own. He did have 6 weeks prior to do the groundwork for what he wanted to accomplish.

Avatar
#164 cableguy - 2nd Tier Fan
July 01 2013, 08:14AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
6
cheers
DSF wrote:

The Leafs acquired Dave Bolland, an actual NHL player, for #51 and #117.

How many actual NHL players (which the Oilers desperately need) did the Oilers acquire for their 2nd round picks?

If avoiding "selling the future" is all about buying lottery tickets, MacT is a master.

All the while ELC's go tick tock.

Hey DSF, happy Canada Day. Just a quick question.

I have another one of these pesky "book its" of yours that somehow seems to have turned out to be wrong. I know it is tough to believe.

do i file this:

Florida will take Drouin at #2. Book it.

with all the others? it may be easier to start keeping a list of the ones you actually get right.

Avatar
#165 madjam
July 01 2013, 08:27AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Abort , Abort the mission - retreat . Lost in space and time continuum . Mission failure . Gm sets the goals and is expected to accomplish them . Once again our Gm has failed to produce the lofty goals he has set for himself , organization and team . This cannot continue nor will it be tolerated for long I predict . MacT. may know players , but looks like his forte is questionable for obtaining that talent . Default positioning is admission of failure and does little to improve team .

I was one of the first to herald Mact. for GM when he left before . Now I am wavering , as I may have been mistaken . The art of dealing does not appear to be MacT.'s strong suit , and we desperately need somebody that is . We need a GM that can set goals and accomplish them if we are to move forward here . Disallusioned at more failures .

Avatar
#166 K_Mart
July 01 2013, 08:31AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
5
cheers

"Told asking price for Schneider to Oilers was the 7, a 2nd and a good young player. High price to trade within division, Oil passed."

— Ryan Rishaug (@TSNRyanRishaug) June 30, 2013

http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2013/07/01/vancouver-canucks-premium-edmonton-oilers-cory-schneider/

So for those of you attacking MacT for making such a terrible offer, bite your tongue. He didn't make the offer, Gillis set the price and MacT turned him down. I, for one, am happy MacT said no. Now watch, everyone will blame him for not matching the price and getting Schneider.

Avatar
#167 ed in edmonton
July 01 2013, 08:54AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers

I believe Glen Sather (or was it Sam Pollock) once said "sometimes the best deal is the one you don't make". It's difficult to criticize when no-one knows what was in play.

The 'nucks trading Schneider rather Luongo should show us how difficult it will be to get any value for Horcoff or Hemsky. These two are virtually untradeable unless the Oil take back an equally overpaid player or pay some of their salary.

What was Mact's motivation for announcing these two are no longer welcomed in Oilertown? Seems to me making his public further devalues their trade value and for what purpose (other than to give an impression of "making bold moves)?

Avatar
#168 K_Mart
July 01 2013, 09:01AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
ed in edmonton wrote:

I believe Glen Sather (or was it Sam Pollock) once said "sometimes the best deal is the one you don't make". It's difficult to criticize when no-one knows what was in play.

The 'nucks trading Schneider rather Luongo should show us how difficult it will be to get any value for Horcoff or Hemsky. These two are virtually untradeable unless the Oil take back an equally overpaid player or pay some of their salary.

What was Mact's motivation for announcing these two are no longer welcomed in Oilertown? Seems to me making his public further devalues their trade value and for what purpose (other than to give an impression of "making bold moves)?

The oilers can retain half of their salaries so horc and hemmer would only be half the cap hit. This makes them half decent trade assets.

Avatar
#169 15w40
July 01 2013, 09:06AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
K_Mart wrote:

"Told asking price for Schneider to Oilers was the 7, a 2nd and a good young player. High price to trade within division, Oil passed."

— Ryan Rishaug (@TSNRyanRishaug) June 30, 2013

http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2013/07/01/vancouver-canucks-premium-edmonton-oilers-cory-schneider/

So for those of you attacking MacT for making such a terrible offer, bite your tongue. He didn't make the offer, Gillis set the price and MacT turned him down. I, for one, am happy MacT said no. Now watch, everyone will blame him for not matching the price and getting Schneider.

Basically Gillis set out to put the screws to MacTavish. Making that trade would have people calling for him to be committed.

As far as stocking goaltenders, not that he is in Schneider's league but looks like a solid prospect - there is one just down the road that played for the Rebels.

Patrik Bartosak is the reigning WHL & CHL goaltender of the year and a free agent.

Not saying he is the 2nd coming of Roy but would be good to add to the pipeline.

EDIT - I see that LA selected - him, not too sure why the Oilers didn't use one of the multiple late picks on him.

Avatar
#170 BArmstrong
July 01 2013, 09:06AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@K_Mart

http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2013/07/01/vancouver-canucks-premium-edmonton-oilers-cory-schneider/

Too Funny - the first comment after JW's piece is exactly what you predicted... "An extra 2nd rounder and second tier prospect! Would not have hurt the oil and the would have got the best player in the deal."

This is great entertainment - I can't understand why my wife watches The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, she can't understand why I watch Hockey:)

Avatar
#171 Quicksilver ballet
July 01 2013, 09:07AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers

There's little doubt now the Oilers will have to buy out Horc if they don't want him coming back. I'm not going to hang MacTavish out to dry for just being optimistic about what he wanted to accomplish yesterday. Lesson learned for Craig.

Avatar
#172 K_Mart
July 01 2013, 09:13AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers

@BArmstrong

HAHA! wow, so predictable sometimes. Funny how much value people put on an extra .006 sv% points

Avatar
#173 WhattaMike
July 01 2013, 09:15AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
4
cheers

Today is a new day and after sleeping with the draft in my mind overnight, I came to the conclusion this morning that the Oilers did not do a fail or as bad as we may have thought...

1) Nurse is an excellent prospect projected as a top #1 to #2 defender (with great skating skills and meanness). if he is not an offensive skill player so be it, he will anchor the top pairing with either Klefbom, Petry or J. Schultz in one to two yrs.

2) the Oilers got two centres both highly rated (although just not with sexy names as MacKinnon, Barkov, Monahan, Lindholm). Olivier Roy is highly rated as a very good two way centre and Yakimov is that big power centre (6'4") everyone was telling the Oilers to find for as a projected 2nd line centre.

3) Slepyshev is a two year in a row first round ranked talent for the left wing at 6'2" and 194 lbs with very good to great speed abilities and his shooting skill is stated to be topnotch. It was his KHL contract (ends this coming yr) which was the primary reason for GM's to not select him last yr...

Hmmmmm...first round and great 2nd round ranked type russian players to go with the excellent 2nd best ranked defenceman draft prospect

4) the others chsosen were for depth and who knows... I like it a lot that two (Muir and Chase are very gritty good sized SOB's to play against. The Oilers need those two to fill the 3rd to 4th lines in the future..

The other kids that the Oilers drafted are definitely interesting and without fame as yet, but then again there have been many players in this league (history wise) who had no name type status aor they were not even drafted and yet they made it/succeeded to play great for yrs.

5) Finally...it's a big thanks that the Oilers/MacT did not do any stupid or naive trades or even overpay for a traded player... although rumours of an big offer for Schneider was allegdly made prior to his going to New Jersey.

Schneider may be over-rated as he sucked to lead the Canucks into the playoffs this yr...and his stats were not awesome or spectacular to anyone during the regular season either.

Clutterbuck going to NYI for Neiderreiter might be a bad deal for Minnesota but who knows as the kid that hated NY may be a great one in a couple of yrs.

Bolland is an injury prone perimeter player that as such, many fans know there arfe a lot more of his type and cheaper out there waiting to be dealt.

These three deals (the only ones of apparent top story status during the draft) did not break the Oilers backs or bank with by not being done. Coburn for two 2nd rounders is a bit steep as well and his being traded to edmonton does Philly a bigger favor than his coming here would for the Oilers anyways. He is a 5 to 7 type defencemannot a top 2/3/4.

Other than size...what makes Coburn any better or superior skill-wise right now than Klefbom, Petry, Smid, J.Schultz, N.Schultz, Belov, etc?

So all in all I am very okay with MacT... now it is the real season to get players...thru smart trades, UFA deals, etc...starting with Khudobin, then maybe Horton....

Avatar
#174 Smokey
July 01 2013, 09:19AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Walter Sobchak wrote:

Paajarvi for a declining Clutterbuck??

ok, before you make crap up, look it up, you make yourself look dumb.

Clutterbuck is 25 years old and hes declining!!!

jesus, are you ever hoodwinked.

Clutterbuck has been a regular NHL player for 5 years! averaging around 25 to 30 points per.

Paajarvi....not so much.

League leader in hits, is an aggressive player, everything Paajarvi is not, everything the Oilers are so dearly lacking.

Where did I say give the 7th up for Colburn?? nice try.

Where is there an overpay? Where?

Also trading in the conference means jack sh!t. well established myth.

Last thing, the Oiler are out of draft picking, its time to add established talent through trade!

Detroit seems to not pick first because the tend to trade there picks for intimidate help.

The Oilers should try that sometime. going on a record 8 years of zero playoffs!

Look up Cal's numbers the last two years. I looked up the stats before I posted, read scouting reports at least, but I'm the one who pulls stuff outta my butt. Maybe you should at least read his stats. MPS is not what you give up for a 20 point guy who doesn't hit quite like he did two years ago. The assumption is MPS ceiling is higher and is on a uptrend Minny should be very happy to get a skilled, fast winger.

There were what 3-4 major trades yesterday, and one blockbuster. MacT admitted he failed, but thats because he talked and undelivered. We need grit bad, I wish Bolland would have shaked loose.

Avatar
#175 BArmstrong
July 01 2013, 09:20AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
K_Mart wrote:

HAHA! wow, so predictable sometimes. Funny how much value people put on an extra .006 sv% points

Yup - the same people that are quick to point out (and rightly so) that Edm's D is a far cry from Van's.

Dubnyk might turn some heads if the roles were reversed.

Avatar
#176 Smokey
July 01 2013, 09:23AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
K_Mart wrote:

HAHA! wow, so predictable sometimes. Funny how much value people put on an extra .006 sv% points

Someone pointed out and I only quoting thats the difference of like 13 goals. That could be a few more wins.

Avatar
#177 Smokey
July 01 2013, 09:26AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
K_Mart wrote:

"Told asking price for Schneider to Oilers was the 7, a 2nd and a good young player. High price to trade within division, Oil passed."

— Ryan Rishaug (@TSNRyanRishaug) June 30, 2013

http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2013/07/01/vancouver-canucks-premium-edmonton-oilers-cory-schneider/

So for those of you attacking MacT for making such a terrible offer, bite your tongue. He didn't make the offer, Gillis set the price and MacT turned him down. I, for one, am happy MacT said no. Now watch, everyone will blame him for not matching the price and getting Schneider.

TSN is contrudicting itself. The panel said that was the offer and Richaug said that was the asking price.

Avatar
#178 K_Mart
July 01 2013, 09:38AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
Smokey wrote:

Someone pointed out and I only quoting thats the difference of like 13 goals. That could be a few more wins.

Dubnyk saved 1042/1132 shots faced for a .921 sv% Had he saved 1049/1132 shots faced he'd have a .927sv%.

So, if somehow schneider could match the sv% he posted behind a cup contending team, behind arguably the worst defensive group in the nhl, he would have stopped an additional 7 goals.

At best, that is an extra 3-4 wins, at worst it is maybe an extra one or two wins, or zero.

Avatar
#179 K_Mart
July 01 2013, 09:41AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Smokey wrote:

TSN is contrudicting itself. The panel said that was the offer and Richaug said that was the asking price.

Link please? I have heard posters claim they 'heard' the panel say that was the offer, but the writing indicates it was the asking price not the offer. Hard to believe someone's memory is more reliable than the reality of what is in writing.

Avatar
#180 Walter Sobchak
July 01 2013, 09:47AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Smokey wrote:

Look up Cal's numbers the last two years. I looked up the stats before I posted, read scouting reports at least, but I'm the one who pulls stuff outta my butt. Maybe you should at least read his stats. MPS is not what you give up for a 20 point guy who doesn't hit quite like he did two years ago. The assumption is MPS ceiling is higher and is on a uptrend Minny should be very happy to get a skilled, fast winger.

There were what 3-4 major trades yesterday, and one blockbuster. MacT admitted he failed, but thats because he talked and undelivered. We need grit bad, I wish Bolland would have shaked loose.

I said between 25 and 30 points look up his average!!

Your trying to argue your point that at age 25 Clutterbuck has somehow declined in play!

He got hurt last by a cheap shot from Taylor Hall other then that he's was still on pace for another 25-30 point season.

But you go to war against Clutterbuck with this.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=117142

Avatar
#181 Helden Dave
July 01 2013, 09:55AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

I refuse to pass judgement until the body of off season work is evaluated. No one fixes a team via draft day alone.

Yes, we heard some rumblings about trades, but those are not the only players available and it was not the only day to get something done.

There are 30 teams in this league and most of the players in play were coveted by more than one team. No single manager can force the potential trade partner to make the trade.

NYI payed a pretty brutal price for Clutterbuck in my opinion. The Oilers could not match that deal without being stupid.

Let's suppose the Oilers DID offer all that for Schneider (crazy) and he still went to NJ for a pick. How can Mac T be blamed for that... it doesn't even make sense? Obviously, Gillis had no intention of dealing with the Oilers in regards to that player. Nothing to be done about that.

Bolland is a good pick up for Toronto, but a 2nd and two 4ths is still currency in the draft. Once again, who's to say the Oilers weren't in on it. There are more Bolland-type players than just Bolland.

We are all waiting for action and I think we'll get some, but before I pass judgment I will wait until I see the whole process.

Avatar
#182 K_Mart
July 01 2013, 09:57AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Walter Sobchak wrote:

I said between 25 and 30 points look up his average!!

Your trying to argue your point that at age 25 Clutterbuck has somehow declined in play!

He got hurt last by a cheap shot from Taylor Hall other then that he's was still on pace for another 25-30 point season.

But you go to war against Clutterbuck with this.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=117142

I think offensively paajarvi definitely has a little bit more to provide than clutterbuck, but not much.

Clutterbuck - 110pts in 336 games MPS - 58pts in 163 games so... 119 pts in 336 gms

MPS is only three years younger so that is a wash. It's the rest of their games that make the difference.

Clutterbuck is annoying to play against, phyiscal, and fairly sound defensively.

I'd bet paajarvi has a slight edge on him in the defensive zone, but paaj is soft as butter which is so annoying.

Clutterbuck tends to take bad penalties, while paaj is good at drawing penalties. All in all, i'd say their value is pretty well equal.

Avatar
#183 DrunkGuyTy
July 01 2013, 10:13AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@Dman09

Would you have preferred that he said ahead of time that he was going to do a deal even, if it meant getting screwed and followed through on that?

People need to quit taking everything that comes out of these guys' mouths as gospel. Guys in these positions realize there needs to be a willing partner on the other end and face it, each one is trying to hose the other one over. Some people need to reconnect with reality.

I believe the intent is there, the try is there and the commitment is there from Mac-T. I guess you need to better be sure that you never set a goal for yourself unless you are 100% certain you're going to accomplish it.

I guess the good thing is, I don't drop any cash on the team besides a new cap every year or two and I have enough of a life outside of the Oilers that if they suck, they suck. - but I don't they will continue to for long. If they do, there are always choices. But since I've cheered for them since '79, I'm still a die-hard fan and I doubt I'll change.

Avatar
#184 The Other Ron Burgundy
July 01 2013, 10:14AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Bolland offers many lessons. 27 years old. 1 year left at $3.375 cap hit. 6 feet, 185 pounds. Last 3 seasons 88 points, plus 4, 103 PIM.

Horcoff is 34 years old. 2 years left at $5.5 cap hit. 6'1", 208 lbs. Last 3 seasons 73 pts, minus 16, 94 PIM.

Lesson 1 - Bolland isn't that great; Willis thinks he's not a fit for Edmonton - I disagree only to the extent that I would say he's a better fit than Horcoff, but neither player is ideal.

Lesson 2 - If all Chicago got for the cheaper, younger Stanley Cup Champion was a low 3rd rounder, a 4th this year and a 4th next year, we will be lucky to get a 4th rounder for a 34-yr-old Horc and one of the great albatross contracts of all time. Lucky. Or we get to eat part of that albatross and then maybe we get the return Chicago got. Then the posts for the last 24 hours I suppose are "I can't believe that's all we got!"...

As an aside, I'd love to know what the deal between Lombardi and MacT would have looked like had Fucale slipped one more spot.

Avatar
#185 madjam
July 01 2013, 10:15AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

I find it ironic if not hilarious that so many people on ON back and make excuses for our GM , even though he admits failure . Gm's job is to set goals and accomplish them -bottom line . For the last 7+ years the fans not only have not had a Gm that could meet their goals , but have an abundance of fans praising them and making excuses for them in their failures . How do you expect to get ahead if your Gms continually fall short of their goals ?

Apparantly we want to avoid overpaying in UFA market - so that appears out . Apparantly they do not want to enter buy out market as well . That leaves trades , and we have already seen that does not appear we are any good at that either . Final option is default action which does little to nothing except maybe make us weaker . Stu stated we were comfortable with that default action . Well let it be stated I am not , and don't see any reason to think it will improve our on ice performance . Even buy out market has viable NHL talent far better than our default option . I'm fed up with making excuses for them , and if more were , we might get a Gm that does set goals and accomplishes those goals .

Avatar
#186 The Other Ron Burgundy
July 01 2013, 10:17AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
The Other Ron Burgundy wrote:

Bolland offers many lessons. 27 years old. 1 year left at $3.375 cap hit. 6 feet, 185 pounds. Last 3 seasons 88 points, plus 4, 103 PIM.

Horcoff is 34 years old. 2 years left at $5.5 cap hit. 6'1", 208 lbs. Last 3 seasons 73 pts, minus 16, 94 PIM.

Lesson 1 - Bolland isn't that great; Willis thinks he's not a fit for Edmonton - I disagree only to the extent that I would say he's a better fit than Horcoff, but neither player is ideal.

Lesson 2 - If all Chicago got for the cheaper, younger Stanley Cup Champion was a low 3rd rounder, a 4th this year and a 4th next year, we will be lucky to get a 4th rounder for a 34-yr-old Horc and one of the great albatross contracts of all time. Lucky. Or we get to eat part of that albatross and then maybe we get the return Chicago got. Then the posts for the last 24 hours I suppose are "I can't believe that's all we got!"...

As an aside, I'd love to know what the deal between Lombardi and MacT would have looked like had Fucale slipped one more spot.

Sorry, typo - meant low 2nd rounder for Bolland. Same point though.

Avatar
#187 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
July 01 2013, 10:18AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
K_Mart wrote:

I think offensively paajarvi definitely has a little bit more to provide than clutterbuck, but not much.

Clutterbuck - 110pts in 336 games MPS - 58pts in 163 games so... 119 pts in 336 gms

MPS is only three years younger so that is a wash. It's the rest of their games that make the difference.

Clutterbuck is annoying to play against, phyiscal, and fairly sound defensively.

I'd bet paajarvi has a slight edge on him in the defensive zone, but paaj is soft as butter which is so annoying.

Clutterbuck tends to take bad penalties, while paaj is good at drawing penalties. All in all, i'd say their value is pretty well equal.

ONLY 3 years?!?........3 years of development time in the NHL is like 21 years in real life.....

If PRV was 25 and playing like he is now.....he'd have been traded along time ago....

Avatar
#188 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
July 01 2013, 10:23AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Being a GM on trade day and getting Bolland.....good

Being a GM on trade day and getting Schieder for a 9th......very good

Being a GM on trade day and seeing Garth Snows name on your call display.....PRICELESS!!!

Avatar
#189 DrunkGuyTy
July 01 2013, 10:25AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers

@madjam

Have you gone into work every day of your life and accomplished 100% of what you intended? I could have been happier at the end of the day too but it's one day...quit being such a drama queen.

Avatar
#190 Smokey
July 01 2013, 10:30AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Walter Sobchak wrote:

I said between 25 and 30 points look up his average!!

Your trying to argue your point that at age 25 Clutterbuck has somehow declined in play!

He got hurt last by a cheap shot from Taylor Hall other then that he's was still on pace for another 25-30 point season.

But you go to war against Clutterbuck with this.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=117142

Teams evaluate on trends or averages? Are contracts handed out this way to player? So a player at 30 years of age averages 80 points per year, and the going rate is 6.million. The last two years hes averaged 50 points, would you pay him based on a 10 year career or on pay him on his last two years. So take Clutterbuck points the last 3 years. Look at where he has trended. Are you paying him on a 25-30 point career average ( not looking at intangibles for arguement sake) you state or on what he has done particularly in the last couple years. He wasn't on pace for 20 points last year and was he hitting the same amount? He peaked early and you know his ceiling, and with the abrasive style he plays your taking a calculated risk trading a player with with a higher ceiling. Look I'm not arguing about getting him, NY Islanders gave uo a former fifth overall pick, who probably should of gone a few spots lower I'll admit. Bolland goes for what a second and two fourths? Who's abetter player between Bolland and Clutterbuck, who gives you better value. Nino for Clutterbuck was ugly, you run.away real fast.

Avatar
#191 K_Mart
July 01 2013, 10:30AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty) wrote:

ONLY 3 years?!?........3 years of development time in the NHL is like 21 years in real life.....

If PRV was 25 and playing like he is now.....he'd have been traded along time ago....

That's debatable I suppose.

3 years is 60% the length of the average 5 year nhl career. And a lot can happen to a player in that time span... but... that doesn't mean that every player (or even half of the players) get drastically better from age 22 to age 25.

Looking at the two players right now though... I don't see how mps can ever be more than a 35 pt player. I could maybe see him peaking with one 40-50 pt season, but for the most part being a reliable third line winger who puts up 30-35 pts is all I see him being.

the value of being 22 yrs old vs. 25 yrs old is real, but i'm just not sure how large it is.

Avatar
#192 Clarko
July 01 2013, 10:55AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
K_Mart wrote:

That's debatable I suppose.

3 years is 60% the length of the average 5 year nhl career. And a lot can happen to a player in that time span... but... that doesn't mean that every player (or even half of the players) get drastically better from age 22 to age 25.

Looking at the two players right now though... I don't see how mps can ever be more than a 35 pt player. I could maybe see him peaking with one 40-50 pt season, but for the most part being a reliable third line winger who puts up 30-35 pts is all I see him being.

the value of being 22 yrs old vs. 25 yrs old is real, but i'm just not sure how large it is.

I don't think you give up on Paajarvi yet...he still has a lot of potential. He had 34 points in his rookie season, had a terrible 2nd season, but was actually on pace for over 30 points last year in an 82 game season (16 points in 42 games).

And not that he is going to be Claude Giroux, but his point totals from ages 21-25 were 27, 47, 76, 93, and 48 (in 48 games). The point is that I don't think Paajarvi is anywhere close to his ceiling yet. He was clearly using his big body more last season and we all hope he progresses in that area.

Avatar
#193 nunyour
July 01 2013, 10:55AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
russ99 wrote:

I don't get the angst, the Oilers drafted very well today, especially with the first and them extra picks..

Look at some of the trades today (other than Bolland who asked to go to Toronto which is why the price was so cheap) and you can see that the Oilers don't have the same level of quality to move, all we have are the unmovable kids, some poor/underperforming vets and average to below average prospects.

MacT can only do what he can do, when Neiderreiter and McBain and high picks are available and we have nothing comparable to offer.

Nobody is going to gift us assets for Pitlick, Lander, Musil or Horcoff and Hemsky for that matter. Gotta give to get and we don't have much to give, which is a massive failing of Tambellini's and not on MacT.

Hopefully MacT can make a splash in FA instead.

We have a bingo,the oilers have nobody that anybody wants.

Avatar
#194 Tom
July 01 2013, 11:14AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
madjam wrote:

I said I didn't see it that way , just wondered if anyone else seen it differently beyond the fan who thought it was evident . Once again I did not see anything . One question I do have is , was Lowe at the draft and if he was not do you know why ?

Lowe was at the draft. Saw him shaking hands with the Nurse family.

Avatar
#195 Edsez
July 01 2013, 11:17AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

that after hearing the asking price for Schneider put me in the "MacT made the right call camp". I predict another step forward from Dubnyk next season.

I'm comfortable keeping Paajarvi and finding a "Clutterbuck"-type, at the $2-3 mil/year he likely is looking for, on the open market. Paajarvi will turn out to be good value if they can get him in the $5 mil over 3 years range.

I'm happy Nurse was the choice at #7 (after Lindolm & Monahan were taken)

it's a beautiful morning out there, have a great Canada Day

Avatar
#196 nuge2nail
July 01 2013, 11:19AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Oiler Domination To Follow

On this team Clutterbuck > Paarajvi. I can't even believe we are discussing this.

On this team Schneider > Nurse + Yamikov. I can't believe we are discussing this.

On this team the tsn monkey > management. This is open for discussion.

Avatar
#197 Dockstaff
July 01 2013, 11:28AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@nuge2nail

Nuge2Nail, are you suggesting the Oil made a mistake in dealing Penner? Yes he has two cup rings, so does their training staff and Darryl Sutter could barely stand Penner. So much so that Penner sat on the bench for large sections of important playoff games.

There is no contest, a bag of sticks for Penner would be a win.

Avatar
#198 Shaun Doe
July 01 2013, 11:36AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

I think the big positive I can take from this draft is the evidence of attempted trades. Despite having nothing to show for his leg work, at least we can read about Mac-T doing some running. In previous years Tambi may as well have just stayed home on draft day. So it is encouraging to say that at least he is getting his nose into the thick of things, and who knows, maybe some of those conversations were regarding players yet to be moved. The Bernier trade had apparently been in the works since Nonis took the job in T.O. Sometimes these talks bear fruit further down the line. Other times the conversation they have about one player finishes off on a handshake over a different one. Wait and see I suppose.

Avatar
#199 YFC Prez
July 01 2013, 11:36AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

I was bitterly disappointed yesterday. But like so many others after hearing what the cost was to acquire Schneider, Coburn and Clutterbuck, I am actually quite content.

2 2nds and Smid is a drastic overpayment, and a 1st, second, and a prospect is just insane for the slight upgrade in net that Schneider would give.

Both of those moves would be a step back for the organisation.

I still wuv Mac T!

Avatar
#200 nuge2nail
July 01 2013, 11:53AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Dockstaff wrote:

Nuge2Nail, are you suggesting the Oil made a mistake in dealing Penner? Yes he has two cup rings, so does their training staff and Darryl Sutter could barely stand Penner. So much so that Penner sat on the bench for large sections of important playoff games.

There is no contest, a bag of sticks for Penner would be a win.

Oiler Domination To Follow

I'm not suggesting we did not win the Penner trade, I am just stating that in 7 years no trades have occurred that are a clear win.

Penner was a 25-30 goal scorer here. He have no players from that trade that have played a game yet.

On top of that, this is the only trade that has occurred with some substance In Over a decade. Give me a break.

Comments are closed for this article.