Great Expectations

Jonathan Willis
July 01 2013 11:29AM

There has been some significant backlash from Edmonton Oilers fans, both here and elsewhere, following a draft that fell somewhat short of Craig MacTavish’s lofty goals going in. How much is justified?

Pre-Draft

When MacTavish was introduced as the new general manager of the Oilers, there was mixed reaction, which makes sense given his long history with Edmonton’s fans and the animosity many felt during his time as coach. He did say all the right things, though, and implicitly contrasted himself to predecessor Steve Tambellini with comments like this one:

I’m an impatient guy, and I bring that impatience to this situation. I think that we’re at the stage in terms of the cycle of our hockey club right now that we have to do some bold things. We have to expose ourselves to some semblance of risk to try and move the team forward in a rapid fashion. My sense, and my analysis from watching the team over the last number of months is much the same as a lot of people’s analysis of our team. We need greater depth, we’ve got a lot of great primary pieces.

Asked if there could be as many as eight new Oilers, MacTavish said, “I think that’s fair. There’s going to be some significant and meaningful change for sure.”

Comments in that vein all down the line, combined with media- (and, yes, blog-)driven hype and rumours served to push expectations sky high. Lots of players were available for the right offer. The Oilers were linked all over, to goalies and forwards and defencemen, and the feeling going in was that the Oilers would come out of the draft looking substantially different than when they entered it.

Dud

In the larger picture, it’s worth noting that such hype was particularly strong in Edmonton, but it wasn’t confined to the Oilers; lots of teams hoped to be able to do something at the draft. But in the grand scheme of things, the draft was a dud. Cory Schneider went to New Jersey for a fraction of the cost Vancouver would have charged Edmonton. Cal Clutterbuck went to Brooklyn at the cost of former fifth overall pick Nino Niederreiter. Andrej Sekera cost both a pretty good defenceman (Jamie McBain) and the 35th overall pick.

The best, and perhaps only, bargain of the day was likely San Jose’s acquisition of Tyler Kennedy for a second round draft pick.

Should the Oilers have given Vancouver their asking price for Schneider – reportedly the 7th overall, a second round pick and a young NHL-ready player? Should they have swapped Magnus Paajarvi for Cal Clutterbuck? I’d answer an emphatic ‘no’ to both, and that’s just how it is: the trade prices were too high to get anything done.

So, while superficially the draft was a dud, in this case “dud” was likely better than the alternative.

Reality

Unfortunately, this leaves Craig MacTavish in virtually the same place he entered the draft: in need of making significant changes to his hockey team. The defence and the bottom six needs to be overhauled. Players like Ales Hemsky and Shawn Horcoff are still on the team; if Craig MacTavish has prioritized moving them than they still need to go (though at this point, it is fair to wonder if the Oilers really are best-served by moving them). The same is true in net, where Devan Dubnyk offers Edmonton a perfectly serviceable number one goalie in the prime of his career; the Oilers appear to want an elite goaltender and if that’s a priority for them they will need to find it somewhere else. The big left winger the team covets still needs to be found as well.

There is time to do these things, but the draft was expected to be a significant opportunity, and it is definitely a bad thing for the team that the opportunity turned out to be only a mirage. The next big step is free agency, and the post-free agency trades for teams that didn’t land their preferred targets. The Oilers can’t afford to go through those periods without making significant changes.

Recently around the Nation Network

The Oilers draft may have been quiet, but the Calgary Flames' certainly was not. The decision to pass on Hunter Shinkaruk and instead pick Emile Poirier was widely critiqued, but the Flames' 67th overall pick drew some negative attention, too:

After round 1, there isn't much to talk about. Feaster failed to nab any other early-to-mid picks so it's even more baffling that the organization decided to use their lone choice between 30-100 on man mountain Keegan Kanzig. The 6'7", 240+ pound defender, by all accounts, is a guy who can't really skate, can't handle the puck and has no offense to speak of. He was ranked in the 190's amongst North American skaters by Central Scouting. Corey Pronman didn't rank him in the top-100 either.

Click the link to read more, or alternately, feel free check out some of my other pieces here:

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Jonathan Willis is Managing Editor of the Nation Network. He also currently writes for the Edmonton Journal's Cult of Hockey, Grantland, and Hockey Prospectus. His work has appeared at theScore, ESPN and Puck Daddy. He was previously founder and managing editor of Copper & Blue. Contact him at jonathan (dot) willis (at) live (dot) ca.
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#101 nuge2nail
July 01 2013, 06:14PM
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WhattaMike wrote:

Man!!!!! I hear the panic button going off by so many persons out there....that I thank Gawd that all those whiners and rushers that I speak of... are not runni8ng the Oilers cause the team would be so bad....

Get Clutterbuck off your minds once and for all. He is traded....and he is not worth a fifth overall player and a 2nd rounder!!!!!

IMO, he is replacable by others at a cheaper price ... and would have been not even thought of too much... if Hartikainen had wanted to sign a two way contract then give a real work ethic attitude...

Schneider is nor was ever "heads over heels" far better than Dubnyk!!!! He ain't nor is worth a (th overall pick nor...a #7, a 2nd rounder and an NHL ready player!!!!!

Khudobin...without giving away players/prospects/draft pick costs, etc, plus his salary... is a definite more worthwhile venture to go get as a UFA, so is Emery

Bolland is not worth what Toronto gave nor what Chicago originally wanted.The Oilers can go get players such as Gordon instead...

Until those out there making sane and realistic sense and/or suggest proper options then don't even bother writing anything here...

I am not a perfect Oilers fan but I am one of for over 30 yrs and...I do enjoy reading of those who make good real sense and/or points on here...

Oiler Domination To Follow

How could the team have been worse?

30, 30, 29, 24

Trade for Z Smith, sign Ference and Jagr.

Put together a package with our 2014 first rounder, Paarajvi, Marincin, etc For Seguin

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#102 WhattaMike
July 01 2013, 06:22PM
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@Nuge2 nail

I like how ya want to get this going.. Use assets and options that are realistic IMO...

If next yrs draft is a weak one then ya use that 2014 first roundere and some package deal offers to get a good to very great top line centre or winger, especially if the type UFA deals are not the right course..

That being said the Oilers should go first for two of three such players in the UFA area...Horton (maybe Stalberg), Khudobin or Emery..then start for those 3rd and 4th liner deals..

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#103 Newj
July 01 2013, 06:28PM
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@WhattaMike

For the record it wasnt a 5th overall (Nino) & a 2nd round for Brylcream Man.Just Nino plus NYI got a late pick somewhere in the coming decade.

No Cal...fine..but someone with a little jam & can put together a few cognitive thoughts in our own zone.

BTW, I'll quit posting such asinine thoughts.

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#104 WhattaMike
July 01 2013, 06:37PM
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@Newj

Thanks for heads up on trade for clutterbuck...I somehow thought a pick was involved as well.

Yep...I agree with ya that we need some aggressive tough boys for the team and its too bad Harty was one who didnt seem to want to work at it.. But ya gotta at least agree to not overpay or do something too rash to get what the Oilers need don't ya?

There are also good fair trades for out there to be done but not at the expense of the talent thats been signed/drafted...with Ebs, Hall, RNH, Yak, Schultz, Klefbom and now Nurse.

It took this long and four bad seasons plus to get these kids and now too many want to let go of one or two already? Whatcha think?

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#105 Walter Sobchak
July 01 2013, 06:50PM
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WhattaMike wrote:

@Nuge2 nail

I like how ya want to get this going.. Use assets and options that are realistic IMO...

If next yrs draft is a weak one then ya use that 2014 first roundere and some package deal offers to get a good to very great top line centre or winger, especially if the type UFA deals are not the right course..

That being said the Oilers should go first for two of three such players in the UFA area...Horton (maybe Stalberg), Khudobin or Emery..then start for those 3rd and 4th liner deals..

exactly what assets?

This is what a lot of hoodwink optimistic fans think like.

FYI - Next years draft is a deeper draft then this years, so just giving away that pick is borderline insane.

You and a few other posters just complained about selling the future for gains now, interestingly enough you turn around and mention free agency and draft picks to support your cause.

I'll take you back to the start of the 2007 when the good ship Oiler started completely falling off a cliff.

The Oilers went whale hunting to support and already depleted core.

The Oilers lacked among other things an elite goalie.

They lacked any semblance of a third line and a depleted defensive core.

They has some scoring but no supporting cast.

No power forwards, the one power forward they had they let leave over a couple hundred thousand dollars.

The Oilers were chasing allusive UFA's and not watching the rest of the team crumbling around them.

The Oilers are in this mess for many, many reasons, the biggest is over spending, chasing over aged, over priced injury prone players.

your solution is to do the same?

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#106 DSF
July 01 2013, 06:58PM
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15w40 wrote:

I don't know why people continue to argue with the "anti-oiler".

If Edmonton had traded the 1st, a 2nd, and a top prospect for Schneider, he would be on here trumpeting from the rooftops about what a rookie hack Mactavish is and how he got totally fleeced and that Mike Gillis schooled him.

It doesn't matter what moves the Oilers make or don't make - they will be WRONG, 100% of the time.

And in the event they ever get good or actually win the cup it will be because even a blind squirrel gets an acorn sometimes.

Should Edmonton have sweetened the deal for Clutterbuck - yes. Should they have gone with somebody like Pajaarvi - maybe. Nino Niederreiter was a special case because the milk had already gone sour between his camp and NYI. Maybe Edmonton should have traded Pajaarvi for him instead of Clutterbuck.

The Oilers will not win the cup this year and may end up buying out Horcoff. I don't see Hemsky as a candidate for that.

High end UFA's will not come here either. So you draft and you trade - Nurse is just what the doctor ordered.

Such is the life of the most northerly outpost of the NHL.

The Oilers need to plug one hole at a time and Schneider would have plugged a hole.

Just listened to a radio interview with Gillis and the Oilers did NOT offer a 1st, a roster player and a good prospect. I have no idea what the Oilers offered but it obviously wasn't enough.

Whiff.

We do know the Oilers offered Pitlick and a 2nd for Clutterbuck and the Wild declined instead taking a player who scored 50 points in the AHL over a player who scored 10 points in the AHL. No brainer.

Whiff.

We don't know what else MacT was in on but he came home empty handed in his quest for a goalie, a second line centre, a top 6 winger a top 4 defenseman and any player who can play in the bottom 6 in the next 2-3 years.

Whiff

Whiff

Whiff

He can redeem himself somewhat in free agency but time is short and the price just went up.

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#107 DSF
July 01 2013, 06:59PM
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WhattaMike wrote:

@Newj

Thanks for heads up on trade for clutterbuck...I somehow thought a pick was involved as well.

Yep...I agree with ya that we need some aggressive tough boys for the team and its too bad Harty was one who didnt seem to want to work at it.. But ya gotta at least agree to not overpay or do something too rash to get what the Oilers need don't ya?

There are also good fair trades for out there to be done but not at the expense of the talent thats been signed/drafted...with Ebs, Hall, RNH, Yak, Schultz, Klefbom and now Nurse.

It took this long and four bad seasons plus to get these kids and now too many want to let go of one or two already? Whatcha think?

Who are you going to trade that has any value?

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#108 Newj
July 01 2013, 07:07PM
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@WhattaMike

I agree those kids shouldn't be traded..they haven't had the time to show what they can or can't do or do,but like everybody on this site knows..they need a supporting cast.

In my mind those players aren't that easy to acquire..everybody wants one..lets see what Clarkson fetchs..my guess is the stakes will be high.

The dude with the stiff hair was that type of player..time will tell if Snow messed up again, but atleast he is making an effort to shore up those deficiencies. We have done not so much..Brown maybe..but I see him as more than a 4th line career guy.

You're right he's an Islander now..but who's available? MacT cannot afford to sit idle..those kids dont need Horcoff & Smyth as their supporting cast for another season.

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#109 nuge2nail
July 01 2013, 07:09PM
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Walter Sobchak wrote:

exactly what assets?

This is what a lot of hoodwink optimistic fans think like.

FYI - Next years draft is a deeper draft then this years, so just giving away that pick is borderline insane.

You and a few other posters just complained about selling the future for gains now, interestingly enough you turn around and mention free agency and draft picks to support your cause.

I'll take you back to the start of the 2007 when the good ship Oiler started completely falling off a cliff.

The Oilers went whale hunting to support and already depleted core.

The Oilers lacked among other things an elite goalie.

They lacked any semblance of a third line and a depleted defensive core.

They has some scoring but no supporting cast.

No power forwards, the one power forward they had they let leave over a couple hundred thousand dollars.

The Oilers were chasing allusive UFA's and not watching the rest of the team crumbling around them.

The Oilers are in this mess for many, many reasons, the biggest is over spending, chasing over aged, over priced injury prone players.

your solution is to do the same?

Oiler Domination To Follow

This hasnt been a good ship for a long time and we don't have a depleted core now- so your whole argument makes no sense.

Now is the time to support a strong core of Hall, Hopkins, Eberle, Yakupov, Petry, J Shultz and most likely Gagner.

We lack an elite goaltender, a power forward, a bottom six and a strong complete defensive unit.

i am not optimistic oilers management can get the job done.

Ference would be a good addition.

On a positive note: J Shultz, Petry, Klefbom, Nurse make for a solid future top 4. Smid, Belov, Marincin, Gernat could round out the bottom 2 or any ufa signing

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#110 DSF
July 01 2013, 07:10PM
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djc wrote:

Did you buy your Florida Drouin jersey yet old man?

No.

I've ordered a Barkov.

Should be something to watch Barkov and Huberdeau make magic together.

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#111 Quicksilver ballet
July 01 2013, 07:11PM
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Ahh..... the perils of a B market, in a league with too many teams and not enough talent.

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#112 Lofty
July 01 2013, 07:14PM
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Lochenzo wrote:

Fine line between being bold and being reckless. MacT avoided being reckless.

Well said. Trades can still be made and with lots of cap room, giving Katz's change away on a short but substantial UFA signing could bring a left winger with size.

I don't think a goalie is a big issue. My perception of Dubnyk's laid back personality makes me think he'll thrive being the definitive #1. Guys like Steve Mason, who were hot and went cold, can be found at good prices (either trade or UFA signing.)

Top end Dman... No clue where to find that. I do think the drafting of Nurse may accelerate Klefboms trip to the NHL. That's probably not a good thing either.

I think MacT is eager to find a deal, but it has to be a good deal. As long as he doesn't start with a Khabibulin like signing, I'm all for it. Still think the roster will change by roughly 5.

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#113 Walter Sobchak
July 01 2013, 07:17PM
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nuge2nail wrote:

Oiler Domination To Follow

This hasnt been a good ship for a long time and we don't have a depleted core now- so your whole argument makes no sense.

Now is the time to support a strong core of Hall, Hopkins, Eberle, Yakupov, Petry, J Shultz and most likely Gagner.

We lack an elite goaltender, a power forward, a bottom six and a strong complete defensive unit.

i am not optimistic oilers management can get the job done.

Ference would be a good addition.

On a positive note: J Shultz, Petry, Klefbom, Nurse make for a solid future top 4. Smid, Belov, Marincin, Gernat could round out the bottom 2 or any ufa signing

Your missing my point, we do have depleted depth to support the core players.

so, yes I agree with you, we do need to support them.

I agree we do lack a elite goalie, but fishing for one in UFA season does not work and there isn't any.

so trading for one would have been best option, plus gives you Dubnyk to use as an asset.

No, like DSF said the price to acquire UFA's are going to be astronomically high, even higher for the Oilers.

You have seen my posts, I have zero issue with Nurse the player.

The Oilers had other needs, and there was BPA still on the board, skill on the board, better projected players on the board.

The Oilers got smoked at this draft.

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#114 Walter Sobchak
July 01 2013, 07:21PM
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DSF wrote:

No.

I've ordered a Barkov.

Should be something to watch Barkov and Huberdeau make magic together.

You mean Huberdeau.

I figured you meant him.

As soon as FLA was up I knew they were taking Barkov.

That kid is going to be a GEM!!!

What say you on the possibilities of the Oilers dealing for Bjugstad ?

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#115 WhattaMike
July 01 2013, 07:23PM
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@Waltere Wes Sobchak

No bud...I said if next yrs draft was weak then I can see picks being used to do som trades this summer. To be honest I havent really checked next yrs draft list yet...

For assets the Oilers may have, I was looking at any of Hartikainen, Lander, Omark, Rajala, Gernat, Fedun, Davidson, to others even maybe like Pitlick, Gustaffsson (D),...

The Oilers roster assets for trades would likely be N. Schultz, Potter, Peckham, Paajarvi... then there's Gagner, Hemsky, Horcoff...

I know I know it ain't great but...it's something. My whole point is to not overpay for any trade or evn UFA if possible...I am not one to sell off any core either.

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#116 madjam
July 01 2013, 07:26PM
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DSF wrote:

1) Horcoff's value will never go up, never. He's turning 35 in a few weeks and his production at all facets of the game has fallen off a cliff.

2) Hemsky might get you some excess baggage at the deadline but at that time of the year, teams are looking to ADD good players not subtract them. There's also a pretty good chance Hemsky will be injured then so will be untradeable.

3) We really don't know what Paajarvi's value will be a year from now or what his cap hit will be and the team needs help NOW, not a year from now.

4) Yes it seems likely the Oilers will have no choice but to sign Gagner and the Oilers have handled it so badly that Gagner has ALL the leverage.

If the Oilers go into the season with Lander or Horcoff as their top centre, the season will be over by the end of October.

5) If you are unwilling to trade any of your decent prospects you won't get anything in return.

The last best hope for MacT, since he has close to zero tradeable assets is to strike it rich in free agency which is the absolute worst time to try adding players since you almost always have to overpay.

With Hopkins unlikely ready to start the season, MacT has an urgent need at centre.

He has to try and rebuild his bottom 6 with UFA players.

He needs at least 1 top 4 D.

And he has to find a #2G and #3G.

Tick tock.

Sorry to tell you this , but you way underrate/undervalue the Oiler talent values on your first three . 4 is a given . 5. I disagree on most of it .

I would think that if you were a Gm on another club going for playoff personnel in their last contract of Horcoff or Hemsky their actual salary would be in the neighbour hood of 1M to 2M depending on which one you added . That should be attractive to any team , or the Gm not to bright . They are both valuable additions even if you do not accept that . You seem to have a tendency of under valueing Oilers personnel and conversely over valuing other teams personnel . Not always , but frequently you do .

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#117 nuge2nail
July 01 2013, 07:30PM
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madjam wrote:

Sorry to tell you this , but you way underrate/undervalue the Oiler talent values on your first three . 4 is a given . 5. I disagree on most of it .

I would think that if you were a Gm on another club going for playoff personnel in their last contract of Horcoff or Hemsky their actual salary would be in the neighbour hood of 1M to 2M depending on which one you added . That should be attractive to any team , or the Gm not to bright . They are both valuable additions even if you do not accept that . You seem to have a tendency of under valueing Oilers personnel and conversely over valuing other teams personnel . Not always , but frequently you do .

Oiler Domination To Follow

I guess we all can agree that the value of the current oilers team is a 24-30th place finish.

Unless I'm missing something.

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#118 WhattaMike
July 01 2013, 07:32PM
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@Walter "Wes" Sobchak...

Hey bud...ya dont think a goalie like Khudobin for say 3 yrs... can be a good UFA deal?

In your opinion which UFA type players would you seek out... Horton? Stalberg? Gordon?

I too agree with ya and...I think it was DSF...who said prices for UFA's may well be out to lunch (astronomical)

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#119 madjam
July 01 2013, 07:34PM
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Maybe our veteran talent has become the scapegoat for poor results , possibly unfairly ? Maybe it's just as likely our young core not being as good as we make them out to be .

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#120 Walter Sobchak
July 01 2013, 07:39PM
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WhattaMike wrote:

@Waltere Wes Sobchak

No bud...I said if next yrs draft was weak then I can see picks being used to do som trades this summer. To be honest I havent really checked next yrs draft list yet...

For assets the Oilers may have, I was looking at any of Hartikainen, Lander, Omark, Rajala, Gernat, Fedun, Davidson, to others even maybe like Pitlick, Gustaffsson (D),...

The Oilers roster assets for trades would likely be N. Schultz, Potter, Peckham, Paajarvi... then there's Gagner, Hemsky, Horcoff...

I know I know it ain't great but...it's something. My whole point is to not overpay for any trade or evn UFA if possible...I am not one to sell off any core either.

I will say this.

I wouldn't have minded trading Paajarvi for Clutterbuck.

Paajarvi MIGHT have more upside, but Clutterbuck is what the Oilers need badly. so regardless if the trade is deemed a loss its a needed piece.

I don't understand how some people can flip out over Paajarvi for Clutterbuck but then say Hemsky for Zack Smith would be a great trade?

These are assets.

Smid - Petry - Schultz Sr - Klefbom - Marincin - Gagner - Paajarvi - Lander.

That's it.

So, if you can find an upgrade in any postionusing these players, possible draft picks for next year while suplimenting through compliance buyouts or careful UFA signing then maybe they can turn this summer around.

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#121 WhattaMike
July 01 2013, 07:41PM
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@madjam

I believe that in this last yr of his contractb Hemsky is ready to go somewhere else and show he still has a ot of skill. The team that gets him will very much like his rejuvenation too and there is his true value...Wanting a new top type contract at 29 yrs old. Also, I think the summer is best to trade him too cause he does get banged up by the deadline.

Yeah.. Horcoff is 35 but his value is he will be a very good rejuvenated veteran as well and the team that gets him will like his faceoff abilities as also probabl 35 to 40 pts...as a third line centre for the two more yrs if the Oil eat a $$$Mil per yr...

Gagner is only 23 and its Tamby's fault for the contract issue not MacT's. he can bring back something tangible too in a type package

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#122 madjam
July 01 2013, 07:43PM
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nuge2nail wrote:

Oiler Domination To Follow

I guess we all can agree that the value of the current oilers team is a 24-30th place finish.

Unless I'm missing something.

Not sure what you mean by value ,but it's obviously gone up to 23rd by results , no longer at 30 . By your evaluation teams that have Stamkos ,St.Louie ,The Stall bros., etc. and other teams below us , their value is also bad /worse ?

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#123 Walter Sobchak
July 01 2013, 07:45PM
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WhattaMike wrote:

@Walter "Wes" Sobchak...

Hey bud...ya dont think a goalie like Khudobin for say 3 yrs... can be a good UFA deal?

In your opinion which UFA type players would you seek out... Horton? Stalberg? Gordon?

I too agree with ya and...I think it was DSF...who said prices for UFA's may well be out to lunch (astronomical)

I honestly don't know much about Khudobin to give an accurate description, so I can't comment about his game.

No on Horton, first his wife is a playboy playmate and is wicked HOT! I dont see them coming to Edmonton to be honest.

However, he would still be a no, age, cost and injury history are a concern.

Hell Yes on Gordon, much like Clutterbuck, the Oilers need this type, all on board for that.

Stalberg is interesting because he had a Meh, final, But, dont discount what that could mean for the Oilers, he is a definite need and would not at all be disappointed with Stalberg.

I would like to see the Oilers go after Bjugstad

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#124 WhattaMike
July 01 2013, 07:46PM
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@Walter "Wes" Sobchak

I hear ya...on the free agency and trade issues facing the Oil ... and ya, I would agree that Paajarvi for Clutterbuck would not be a one sided give away by the Oilers...but...I think and/or believe he is being now looked at to become a good PK player/3rd line winger for the Oilers...unless...lol...by some miracle he becomes an offence type 60 to 65 pt 2nd line power left winger this new season.

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#125 nuge2nail
July 01 2013, 08:13PM
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madjam wrote:

Not sure what you mean by value ,but it's obviously gone up to 23rd by results , no longer at 30 . By your evaluation teams that have Stamkos ,St.Louie ,The Stall bros., etc. and other teams below us , their value is also bad /worse ?

Oiler Domination To Follow

I would say the value of a roster Is based on the teams performance over the past 5 years.

I gave this roster the benefit of the doubt with the 24-30th place finish.

I highly doubt you can argue that based on the value system used.

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#126 WhattaMike
July 01 2013, 08:13PM
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Hey I just thought of three trade idea possibles... Might be too much from the Oilers or not enough (just some quick suggestions here so dont judge too harshly)

1) With Reimer not likely happy in Toronto due to Bernier being subjected to 1st goalie status in the media...what about him coming to the Oilers with a 3rd or 4th round pick and Colborne for ... Gagner and a prospect or Eager?

2) What if the Oilers throw Hemsky, Musil or Davidson and say a 3rd round pick....to Colombus for Nikitin?

3) What if the Oilers now trade Paajarvi and a 4th for Clutterbuck and NYI's 3rd rounder?

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#127 Colin
July 01 2013, 08:16PM
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@nuge2nail

Schneider was traded for a 9th overall pick. You would have th oilers give th 7th, a 2nd and and "A" propect? Wow! Doesn't make sense.

Jagr has played for 2 more teams since Philly

Schneider lost his starting job to Lou. Not an elite tender. Yet. Time will tell if he ever will be.

Yes 24 teams were better this year. Less than the past few. Our future is bright. More does need to be added but, at what cost?

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#128 Oilers4ever
July 01 2013, 08:16PM
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Well hello Oilersnation!!! Guy takes a break away for a couple months and everyone (well almost everyone) is trying to rip Oilers mgmt a new you know what. :)

I've read a lot of posts and lord knows I'll tell you one thing we are all lucky for as Oilers fans. Our devotion and dedication to our team, whether the comments are uplifting or trying to rip new holes (as above mentioned) :) I don't care what fans of other teams say, Oilers fan are THE most devoted to their team.

Anyways, I have to wonder about people who are calling for management's heads because nothing happened of significance. Look I want some change as much as the next guy, but you don't make a dumb arse trade if it guts your team and really doesn't improve it. Take the 9th overall pick of NJ's to the Canucks for the supposed "heir" to Marty Brodeur.... NOT! Schneider is a good goalie for sure, but is really that much better that Dubby? I am not that stats guy, I'll leave that to JW, but I'll bet my lunch money (which isn't much tnankfully) that the overall numbers between Dubby and Schneider is not that far apart. So what has Schneider done for you lately? No Vezinas... No Cups. Tell me how he's worth a 9 overall pick. Ridiculous. 7th would have been even worse.

I get that MacT said he's going to make changes but you people who are jumping all over him need to settle down. Never once did he say these changes were all coming through the draft. You talk about Hemsky and Horcoff not being moved for picks you most of the MSM stuff I've read says Hemsky likely won't go until at least the second week or so of July for any of the teams that missed out on guys like Horton, Vinny, etc.

As far as I am concerned, MacT isn't judged until AT LEAST after one full season at GM. He will make some changes this summer. He has to. As it stand now we really don't have a third line. And we need a goalie so that will get addressed.

Our cupboards were bare draft pick wise and we gained what, four or five picks? Yes people say after the first round everything goes to crap whether anything pans out. Tell that to the Red Wings who took Zetterberg and Datsyuk deep in the draft. Both will be in the HHOF guranteed. Who's to say how those two Russian kids will turn out.

And I do think that Eakins will make a difference. New coach, new system. I like what I've read that he's going to have multiple styles of play used within one game. The Oilers have been FAR too predictable for how they play. Whether that is their breakout, the PP, etc. If Eakins can rotate multiple types of breakouts, attacks, etc in one game, teams will never be able to prepare for that. So I look forward to seeing how that goes.

Bottom line, give this new mgmt team and coaching staff a chance to get things done. We all know certain players are going to be gone. Does it really matter if it happens June 28 or August 13 or whatever date before training camp starts that you want to throw out there? The way I see it there is no difference.

I know people are tired of the ole "have patience" from the Oilers organization, but hey, Rome wasn't built in a day. Things will be different by the beginning of September, mark my words!

Peace out all! Good to be back!

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#129 madjam
July 01 2013, 08:26PM
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nuge2nail wrote:

Oiler Domination To Follow

I would say the value of a roster Is based on the teams performance over the past 5 years.

I gave this roster the benefit of the doubt with the 24-30th place finish.

I highly doubt you can argue that based on the value system used.

The only relevance is last year . You want to play games then go back 20-30 years , making us over the last 30 years near the top . Big deal . I give the 30 year scenario the benefit of the doubt .

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#130 Jimmeh
July 01 2013, 08:35PM
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WhattaMike wrote:

Hey I just thought of three trade idea possibles... Might be too much from the Oilers or not enough (just some quick suggestions here so dont judge too harshly)

1) With Reimer not likely happy in Toronto due to Bernier being subjected to 1st goalie status in the media...what about him coming to the Oilers with a 3rd or 4th round pick and Colborne for ... Gagner and a prospect or Eager?

2) What if the Oilers throw Hemsky, Musil or Davidson and say a 3rd round pick....to Colombus for Nikitin?

3) What if the Oilers now trade Paajarvi and a 4th for Clutterbuck and NYI's 3rd rounder?

1) a) I dont know if they will give up Reimer, he will be there to push Bernier, similar to what we'd use him for here. b) Seems like a fair trade, not sure if MacT already offered that during the draft.

2) that might be a bit of an over payment for Nikitin, maybe straight swap for Hemsky. (although I'd have to hear his full name every time he touched the puck, not sure how enjoyable that would be)

3) no chance NYI turns around and trades Clutterbuck before they get to see him play.

Any thoughts on Pierre-Marc Bouchard, could be a good bottom 6 player, if signed to less than his last contract.

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#131 PutzStew
July 01 2013, 08:45PM
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Did you really only get 1/30 on the mock draft? Are you sure you are in the right business?

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#132 nuge2nail
July 01 2013, 08:54PM
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Colin wrote:

Schneider was traded for a 9th overall pick. You would have th oilers give th 7th, a 2nd and and "A" propect? Wow! Doesn't make sense.

Jagr has played for 2 more teams since Philly

Schneider lost his starting job to Lou. Not an elite tender. Yet. Time will tell if he ever will be.

Yes 24 teams were better this year. Less than the past few. Our future is bright. More does need to be added but, at what cost?

Oiler Domination To Follow

Yes I would give up a 7th, a second and a b level prospect for Schneider.

Simple because Schneider creates an asset in Dubnyk, and will have more impact than Nurse on our team.

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#133 nuge2nail
July 01 2013, 08:56PM
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Oilers4ever wrote:

Well hello Oilersnation!!! Guy takes a break away for a couple months and everyone (well almost everyone) is trying to rip Oilers mgmt a new you know what. :)

I've read a lot of posts and lord knows I'll tell you one thing we are all lucky for as Oilers fans. Our devotion and dedication to our team, whether the comments are uplifting or trying to rip new holes (as above mentioned) :) I don't care what fans of other teams say, Oilers fan are THE most devoted to their team.

Anyways, I have to wonder about people who are calling for management's heads because nothing happened of significance. Look I want some change as much as the next guy, but you don't make a dumb arse trade if it guts your team and really doesn't improve it. Take the 9th overall pick of NJ's to the Canucks for the supposed "heir" to Marty Brodeur.... NOT! Schneider is a good goalie for sure, but is really that much better that Dubby? I am not that stats guy, I'll leave that to JW, but I'll bet my lunch money (which isn't much tnankfully) that the overall numbers between Dubby and Schneider is not that far apart. So what has Schneider done for you lately? No Vezinas... No Cups. Tell me how he's worth a 9 overall pick. Ridiculous. 7th would have been even worse.

I get that MacT said he's going to make changes but you people who are jumping all over him need to settle down. Never once did he say these changes were all coming through the draft. You talk about Hemsky and Horcoff not being moved for picks you most of the MSM stuff I've read says Hemsky likely won't go until at least the second week or so of July for any of the teams that missed out on guys like Horton, Vinny, etc.

As far as I am concerned, MacT isn't judged until AT LEAST after one full season at GM. He will make some changes this summer. He has to. As it stand now we really don't have a third line. And we need a goalie so that will get addressed.

Our cupboards were bare draft pick wise and we gained what, four or five picks? Yes people say after the first round everything goes to crap whether anything pans out. Tell that to the Red Wings who took Zetterberg and Datsyuk deep in the draft. Both will be in the HHOF guranteed. Who's to say how those two Russian kids will turn out.

And I do think that Eakins will make a difference. New coach, new system. I like what I've read that he's going to have multiple styles of play used within one game. The Oilers have been FAR too predictable for how they play. Whether that is their breakout, the PP, etc. If Eakins can rotate multiple types of breakouts, attacks, etc in one game, teams will never be able to prepare for that. So I look forward to seeing how that goes.

Bottom line, give this new mgmt team and coaching staff a chance to get things done. We all know certain players are going to be gone. Does it really matter if it happens June 28 or August 13 or whatever date before training camp starts that you want to throw out there? The way I see it there is no difference.

I know people are tired of the ole "have patience" from the Oilers organization, but hey, Rome wasn't built in a day. Things will be different by the beginning of September, mark my words!

Peace out all! Good to be back!

Oiler Domination To Follow

Why are our cupboards bare? We have been rebuilding for 7 years. We have built the core and future with the last 7 years of trading players for picks.

We can now package prospects and future draft picks for depth to help the core.

I agree oiler fans are the most passionate about their team. How about we get rewarded for once, maybe with some actual trades or signings that improve the team. That would be nice.

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#134 nuge2nail
July 01 2013, 09:00PM
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madjam wrote:

The only relevance is last year . You want to play games then go back 20-30 years , making us over the last 30 years near the top . Big deal . I give the 30 year scenario the benefit of the doubt .

Oiler Domination To Follow

When evaluating the "current" roster I accounted for the last 5 years. I could have accounted for just the last 3, as almost the entire roster has been on this team for 3 years.

I don't think anyone on this team was playing 30 years ago bud- so your argument makes no sense.

If you want to just evaluate the roster value on last year then this team has a 23rd place value, not 24th-30th as I said earlier.

Thank you for clarifying that up.

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#135 Biowolf
July 01 2013, 10:53PM
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Clutterschmuck, Schneider. Who gives a fig. Want to make a bold move? Go for Tyler Seguin. Offer the kitchen sink.

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#136 Woogie63
July 01 2013, 11:26PM
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Oilers have built their top 5 forwards by playing young men before they were ready, but MAYBE we will enjoy the fruit of all the experience those young men have earned.

Could we do that with our third line? MPS, Lander, Pitlick would give us lots of speed and hard work.

Lets give them the needed time to grow into the roles

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#137 RSD
July 01 2013, 11:35PM
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Biowolf wrote:

Clutterschmuck, Schneider. Who gives a fig. Want to make a bold move? Go for Tyler Seguin. Offer the kitchen sink.

I agree with going after Seguin but, exactly whom does the "kitchen sink" involve?

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#138 nuge2nail
July 02 2013, 12:05AM
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RSD wrote:

I agree with going after Seguin but, exactly whom does the "kitchen sink" involve?

Oiler Domination To Follow

Seguin would be the best bold move any oiler could ask for.

Well realistic move, we all know Weber would be the best move ever.

I would start the convo with 2014 first rounder, Paarajvi and Marincin and see what else needs to be added.

Future Oilers Roster

Hall Hopkins Yakupov

____ Seguin Eberle

J Shultz Nurse

Klefbom Petry

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#139 RSD
July 02 2013, 01:28AM
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nuge2nail wrote:

Oiler Domination To Follow

Seguin would be the best bold move any oiler could ask for.

Well realistic move, we all know Weber would be the best move ever.

I would start the convo with 2014 first rounder, Paarajvi and Marincin and see what else needs to be added.

Future Oilers Roster

Hall Hopkins Yakupov

____ Seguin Eberle

J Shultz Nurse

Klefbom Petry

More like Gagner, Paarajvi, Hemsky (retaining 2/3 of his cap hit) and 2014 1st round pick. Might be over payment but worth it.

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#140 DINGO DOG
July 02 2013, 07:54AM
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.OILERS BOTTOM LINE YOU CAN PLAY THAT SKILL GAME AND BRAG ABOUT ALL THAT SPEED.BUT IF YOU CANNOT PLAY THAT AGRESIVE STYLE IN THE WEST IT IS GONNA BE A LONG YEAR ONCE AGAIN.ALSO NEED A DOSE OF COMPETE AND A STRONG VOICE TO LIGHT A SPARK.CURRENT CAPTAIN HAS LOST A STEP AND HIS COMPETE HAS GONE SOUTH.

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#141 2004Z06
July 02 2013, 09:18AM
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I work with Seguin's cousin. I had reservations about him the year he was drafted based on his interview. Apparently my reservations were/are accurate. His own cousin says he is a spoiled, arrogant brat. Seems Chiarelli is seeing the same personality. I may like his abilities, but his attitude could be toxic. Pass!

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#142 NewAgeSys
July 02 2013, 09:27AM
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nuge2nail wrote:

Oiler Domination To Follow

Good goalies need good defensive systems and great Defenceman to be good.

Great goalies need good defenseman to be great.

Elite goalies make good defenseman look great and steal games for their teams on the regular. An elite goalie makes the entire team play with confidence and swagger.

I believe we need an Elite goalie and we currently have a good goalie.

Nicely played, nuge2nail, well played indeed.

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#143 WhattaMike
July 02 2013, 09:27AM
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Well!!!!....Seguin getting berated on focus and attitude issues from Chiarelli does come out surprising, especially with the kid being made available for trade issues.

That does bring down his stock value for atraqde a bit now... if his attitude and focus are a problem then Eakins and/or Acton would eat this kid for snacks before breakfast.

As an Oiler fan his skill would be great as a 2nd line centre but doubts are creeping in as to whether the Oilers should go get him or not.

I want one who gets paid very well (Seguin now at $5.75 mil) but one who earns that rich contract each and every day... not needing a spoiled bad attitude kid... I don't know'

His alleged attitude and bad work ethics would not be good for the kids or the rest of the Oilers team

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#144 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
July 02 2013, 09:41AM
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nuge2nail wrote:

Oiler Domination To Follow

This team is lost, wandering in a dessert with no end in sight.

Your lost. Schneider will be a Vezina Candidate a few times in his career. I'm sure you will say it's the defensive system in NJ causing him to have such great stats. Schneider has won every where he has gone, Luongos play didn't cause the goaltending controversy- Schneiders amazing steady reliable play did. The worst save percentage he has ever had was .927, do you even know what that means? Go read some Luongo quotes on Schneider, an than go have a twitter war with him about how good Schneider will end up.

Franchise goalies are worth more than a draft pick between 7-9.

Make yourself feel better by believing this team is getting better. We have the same holes we've had since peca, rolosan, and Pronger left.

Tick, Tock.

It's the defensive system in NJ causing him to have such great stats......jeez...you were right!......I said it......

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#145 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
July 02 2013, 09:51AM
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albertabeef wrote:

How old are you? This sounds like a rant from an impatient, impertinent kid. Ya think you are going to get a Stanely cup in one draft? Give MacT a year - see what he does. You want Jagr? Yeah, thasts what we need - an over the hill Diva.... Sheesh....

Come on Beef...you're being too hard on the kid.....yes he posts like he's 14 ...but he's actually only 10....so really...he's some kind of a savant.......which is why he can hold his own when conversing with DSF and the like.....

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#146 Tikkanese
July 02 2013, 10:21AM
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Petry a #1 D-man?!? What do you people honestly see in his game?

I see an average defenceman at best. He's soft. He doesn't bring any offense. He's an average skater and passer. I don't see much compete out of him. Am I missing something?

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#147 NewAgeSys
July 02 2013, 10:29AM
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Oilers4ever wrote:

Well hello Oilersnation!!! Guy takes a break away for a couple months and everyone (well almost everyone) is trying to rip Oilers mgmt a new you know what. :)

I've read a lot of posts and lord knows I'll tell you one thing we are all lucky for as Oilers fans. Our devotion and dedication to our team, whether the comments are uplifting or trying to rip new holes (as above mentioned) :) I don't care what fans of other teams say, Oilers fan are THE most devoted to their team.

Anyways, I have to wonder about people who are calling for management's heads because nothing happened of significance. Look I want some change as much as the next guy, but you don't make a dumb arse trade if it guts your team and really doesn't improve it. Take the 9th overall pick of NJ's to the Canucks for the supposed "heir" to Marty Brodeur.... NOT! Schneider is a good goalie for sure, but is really that much better that Dubby? I am not that stats guy, I'll leave that to JW, but I'll bet my lunch money (which isn't much tnankfully) that the overall numbers between Dubby and Schneider is not that far apart. So what has Schneider done for you lately? No Vezinas... No Cups. Tell me how he's worth a 9 overall pick. Ridiculous. 7th would have been even worse.

I get that MacT said he's going to make changes but you people who are jumping all over him need to settle down. Never once did he say these changes were all coming through the draft. You talk about Hemsky and Horcoff not being moved for picks you most of the MSM stuff I've read says Hemsky likely won't go until at least the second week or so of July for any of the teams that missed out on guys like Horton, Vinny, etc.

As far as I am concerned, MacT isn't judged until AT LEAST after one full season at GM. He will make some changes this summer. He has to. As it stand now we really don't have a third line. And we need a goalie so that will get addressed.

Our cupboards were bare draft pick wise and we gained what, four or five picks? Yes people say after the first round everything goes to crap whether anything pans out. Tell that to the Red Wings who took Zetterberg and Datsyuk deep in the draft. Both will be in the HHOF guranteed. Who's to say how those two Russian kids will turn out.

And I do think that Eakins will make a difference. New coach, new system. I like what I've read that he's going to have multiple styles of play used within one game. The Oilers have been FAR too predictable for how they play. Whether that is their breakout, the PP, etc. If Eakins can rotate multiple types of breakouts, attacks, etc in one game, teams will never be able to prepare for that. So I look forward to seeing how that goes.

Bottom line, give this new mgmt team and coaching staff a chance to get things done. We all know certain players are going to be gone. Does it really matter if it happens June 28 or August 13 or whatever date before training camp starts that you want to throw out there? The way I see it there is no difference.

I know people are tired of the ole "have patience" from the Oilers organization, but hey, Rome wasn't built in a day. Things will be different by the beginning of September, mark my words!

Peace out all! Good to be back!

@ Oilers4ever "And I do think that Eakins will make a difference. New coach, new system. I like what I've read that he's going to have multiple styles of play used within one game. The Oilers have been FAR too predictable for how they play. Whether that is their breakout, the PP, etc. If Eakins can rotate multiple types of breakouts, attacks, etc in one game, teams will never be able to prepare for that. So I look forward to seeing how that goes"

Multiple styles of play used within one game?? What kind of BS is that from the Oilers. What?

You mean he is going to utilise the NHS Adjusted-Hybrid exactly like Chicago has used it? To allow him the flexibility to project more and varied system strengths without dismantleing the Adjusted-Hybrid as the team already understands it? Because that is exactly how his last two pre-decessors were supposed to do things, I would say last three but Quinn didnt have full access to the NHS data the other two had, things were just developing when Quinn was here.

Quinn understood the potential of the NHS and supported it publicly to some degree, he just didnt last long enough here to implement all of the data that was available then and that which was created after he left, but he did have the acumen as Sutter did in LA to immediatly recognise its potential and VALIDATE IT as no one from the Oilers has since.

If Eakins can rotate multiple types of breakouts, attacks , ect in one game??? What?

That is the cheeziest way I have ever heard the NHS adjustments impact on the Adjusted-Hybrid teams use described to date, utter BS .

I guess no one can ask Dallas what system he will be using ha? That looks like a well planned smokescreen to me.

This poor fella doesnt deserve it but he is being hit with a full-blown Integrity Test that his entire roster is watching go down ,right off the bat.

If Dalls Eakins fails to mention the NHS and carries the charade of overt denial of source further AS HIS PREDECESSORS DID, I predict the same fate for him, in short order. The men before him were very good men, and had either fully implemented the available NHS data they would still be here.

The NHS Adjusted-Hybrid is an evolution, it has already been mastered by the Hawks in the exact same way we must use it to optimise our roster, there is no secret there.

Dallas Eakins will not change our System here at all, not one iota, he will simply try incorporating the NHS adjustments as he sees best. Dallas isnt bringing anything new to the table system-wise, he is a strong Intuitive input brought here to better utilise the NHS adjustments we failed to master the last few years. If anyone thinks the Oilers will go back a single step they are nuts, look at how far in the crap they are buried already?

God forbid a video of the NHSs history ever hits the dam Oilers boards before they clear the air, lets please NOT see Dallas smeared here, he already had to whiff on meetings he had planned when we scooped him, he has already been tainted by the Darkside, as I am sure he needed to give an answer before he finished his prior obligations up{which is against his grain}, make a right now choice, you know thats how the dark-side works.... early indoctrination.

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#148 wigswag
July 02 2013, 12:49PM
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@NewAgeSys

Huh?

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#149 NewAgeSys
July 02 2013, 07:20PM
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wigswag wrote:

Huh?

@wigswag

Sorry mispost, I must have been sleep typing again.

If the Moderator would be so kind as to delete that post I would be eternally gratefull.

My apologies for the mistake.

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#150 @Oilanderp
July 03 2013, 12:30AM
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Oiler fans R dumb.

I've tried arguing with myself about it but I always win errr... lose... errr...

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