HORCOFF TO DALLAS...

Jason Gregor
July 04 2013 06:24PM

 

Craig MacTavish's first major move happened today when he traded Shawn Horcoff to the Dallas Stars. Bob McKenzie tweeted that Horcoff is off to Dallas. We found out later via Darren Dreger that Horcoff was moved for D-man Philip Larsen and a 7th round pick in 2016. The Oilers didn't have to eat any salary in the deal, so they just freed up $5.5 million in cap space.
 
This deal isn't a major surprise. MacTavish made it clear a month ago that Horcoff likely wasn't coming back, and Jim Nill told me on my radio show a few weeks ago that he wanted to add a veteran centre.

With the Oilers buying out Belanger and trading Horcoff, it is obvious MacTavish will be adding a centre in free agency or via trade. 

Larsen was a 5th round pick in 2008, and he's played 95 games, including 32 last year. He shots right and is a decent puck mover. This will push Corey Potter further down the depth chart, and should end the speculation that Tom Gilbert will return. The Oilers don't need another non-hitting right-shooting D-man.

This trade allows the Oilers to swing big for David Clarkson, if they choose.

David Clarkson was in Edmonton today to meet with the Oilers, according to Aaron Ward. Price point is going to be the issue with Clarkson. I think most agree he is the type of player the Oilers need, but not at $6 million/year.

Stay tuned.. 

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One of Canada's most versatile sports personalities. Jason hosts The Jason Gregor Show, weekdays from 2 to 6 p.m., on TSN 1260, and he writes a column every Monday in the Edmonton Journal. You can follow him on Twitter at twitter.com/JasonGregor
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#151 John Chambers
July 04 2013, 09:12PM
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Lochenzo wrote:

Having a debate with myself about Hall being captain. He's going to be a great captain. But part of me worries whether it's too soon. It's hockey country. People were on MacT's back on his first day on the job as GM.

Hall was born ready. That's why they had to pick him over Seguin - he's a champion to the bone.

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#152 Crackenbury
July 04 2013, 09:12PM
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Jordan Nugent-Hallkins wrote:

You're the one posting idiotic comments asking why people care about salaries. Put your helmet on and go back to watching baseball.

I don't mind a bit of conversation about player salaries in a cap environment, but it seems that today the first thing people judge a new signing is on the $ instead of what the player brings to the team. It gets a little old listening to the Internet GM's critique the economic ramifications of each signing rather than the players ability and how they fit. Just my opinion.

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#153 madjam
July 04 2013, 09:17PM
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WhattaMike wrote:

@madjam

ya seem disturbed about the horcoff trade dude...were ya not one of the many who have complained about horcoff's contract being overpaid and have added the oilers must dump Horcoff/

If not then i take this back bud..

No I was not . On the contrary ,I thought it best to keep him till at least his final year and deal him at the trade deadline to maximize the return if you recall . At half his salary cap hit he is still a very good and effective player - Dallas really lucked out and got a steal of a deal . We , on the other hand , took on a useless contract for a player probably as effective as Plante or Teubert -both slated to get rid of by the sounds of it . I cringe to think what Hemsky might only bring ,they should wait till trade deadline with him as well to get maximum value . we are still going in a negative direction from Hoecoff deal and that's disturbing . Even if we kept Horc and Hemsky we were fine with cap space with enough left over to start improving . Now we hacve more cap space but I defy you to find where we are better with this trade included . Happy 4th of July .

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#154 J.R.
July 04 2013, 09:19PM
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I know its been said already but...

Look at Clarkson's stats. There is no way he is even worth 5m/season....let alone 6m.

MacT is on crack if he even considers this kind of "bold" move.

4m tops for a guy who has scored 30 what...once?

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#155 shredder
July 04 2013, 09:22PM
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This was an untradeable contract...but MacT pulled it off. Time to praise him and move on. I liked him but heneeded a new environment as he was getting stale here. The dman coming back isn't going to wow anyone but building depth in that role doesn't hurt.

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#156 15w40
July 04 2013, 09:23PM
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MacTavish exceeded expectations in this deal IMHO. Got a lot of cap space for Horcoff and I think he will flourish in Dallas as there won't be this constant anvil of weight around his neck from the fans.

Horcoff is a good 3rd line centre and a good vet by all accounts.

Now the Oilers REALLY have a cavernous hole to fill up the middle.

Boyd Gordon, to me should be getting a phone call ASAP.

A long term deal for Clarkson at $6M per is too much I think but that may be the going rate. The Oilers would likely need to pay at least a 10% premium just to get him to sign here.

Jagr may be a good short term option - if he would sign here. He could roll from the 2nd to the 3rd line pretty easily.

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#157 oliveoilers
July 04 2013, 09:25PM
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This just in, according to Sportsnet tonight: Everybody can go and do other things rather than follow free agent frenzy as the Leafs already have every single UFA, RFA and trades with Dallas locked up, so nobody needs to bother to see what their team is doing.

I was a bit sick in my mouth just watching the T.O./eastern propagander.

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#158 Naky
July 04 2013, 09:27PM
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BTW, the Barker to Larsen comparisons are stupid. Barker was drafted like third overall in his draft class while Larsen was probably never really expected to make the NHL at all. He's shown he can produce and is worth a continued look at while providing competition to our depth defensemen like Potter and the now ex-Oiler depth callup options like Peckham/Teubert. Barker, on the other hand, is almost a total bust years after he had his initial success. Honestly, were it not for his size, initial success, and high draft position he'd have been out of this league a couple years ago.

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#159 Jordan Nugent-Hallkins
July 04 2013, 09:28PM
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@Crackenbury

Well part of the reason Oiler fans care so much is, most of us are nervously eyeing the horizon for when the rest of the young gun's ELCs expire. We have a limited window to win here, salary-wise, before the raw talent of Hall, Yak, et al forces pay raises and causes the team to (at least partially) explode, as the Hawks did after their first cup win. In a cap world, I'd argue salary is equally important as the player earning it.

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#160 WhattaMike
July 04 2013, 09:28PM
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@madjam

Ok..thanks for the refreshed opinion ya had..

But, i say that larsen only needs to prove where he is at before getting ripped as just being a watsed contract. Now...that being said..his contract is much less (even more so 2 way in AHL) than Horcoff too>

Also...as for the Horcoff to Dallas deal, no one here (or no one very much) has mentioned the truth too that Horcoff dictated where he would be dealt to with the NTC or NMC...

Now to everyone out here..., even if Clarkson costs quite a bit for the Oilers..if he can be given a smaller term contract and he does produce pts and leads the team with mentorship and he does have very good seasons during his term here...then he won't be a disaster at all.. but I really do hope myself that he does not get $6 mil or plus per yr...

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#161 BURROWSHASCRABS
July 04 2013, 09:30PM
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madjam wrote:

The nightmare deal ,one of the worst we have ever done . We sell salary cap , but have to take on a garbage part they want to get rid of and toss ,giving us an additional contract and a 7th round pick to make us feel better . Why even bother with that useless contract ? We got to go that low in additions we'll be lucky to reach 29th spot next year . Discusting .

DUDE! Shut your stupid mouth!!

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#162 Tom
July 04 2013, 09:30PM
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madjam wrote:

No I was not . On the contrary ,I thought it best to keep him till at least his final year and deal him at the trade deadline to maximize the return if you recall . At half his salary cap hit he is still a very good and effective player - Dallas really lucked out and got a steal of a deal . We , on the other hand , took on a useless contract for a player probably as effective as Plante or Teubert -both slated to get rid of by the sounds of it . I cringe to think what Hemsky might only bring ,they should wait till trade deadline with him as well to get maximum value . we are still going in a negative direction from Hoecoff deal and that's disturbing . Even if we kept Horc and Hemsky we were fine with cap space with enough left over to start improving . Now we hacve more cap space but I defy you to find where we are better with this trade included . Happy 4th of July .

Come on man, you really think that this move is not part of a bigger plan. Free up more cap space then bring in a couple of solid players. Maybe you overpay but it's all about the end result. I am very happy that this shows MacT might actually have a plan. Next up.....

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#163 Shifty
July 04 2013, 09:31PM
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John Chambers wrote:

Hall was born ready. That's why they had to pick him over Seguin - he's a champion to the bone.

I have a feeling he won't get the C. I don't know what he's like in the locker room, but based on what I see of him on the bench and ice, he's a little too hot headed to talk to the ref's, and he doesn't look very vocal with the players other than RNH and Eb's.

I'm not he saying he definatley shouldn't get it, I'd just be a tiny bit suprised if he did.

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#164 TeeVee
July 04 2013, 09:31PM
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John Chambers wrote:

Right, but they also save the $1M on a 7th Dman from having in effect replacing Peckham.

So if, for instance, they signed Grabovski for $3.5M they just a) got a better 3rd line C, b) improved their defensive depth, albeit marginally, and c) still shaved $2M off the cap.

It's a very good outcome.

After the swear-fest that Grabovski went on today about being stuck on the 3rd/4th line, I sure hope the Oil don't sign him.

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#165 madjam
July 04 2013, 09:34PM
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Comparibles : Seguin was thought to be making far to much cap money to keep him as Bruins slated 3rd line center . He's a very good player like Horcoff is . Difference is we got nothing of consequence for a good talent like Horcoff and the Bruins (cudos to them ) did for Seguin . You really think we didn't get hosed?

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#166 dunk7
July 04 2013, 09:35PM
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madjam wrote:

No I was not . On the contrary ,I thought it best to keep him till at least his final year and deal him at the trade deadline to maximize the return if you recall . At half his salary cap hit he is still a very good and effective player - Dallas really lucked out and got a steal of a deal . We , on the other hand , took on a useless contract for a player probably as effective as Plante or Teubert -both slated to get rid of by the sounds of it . I cringe to think what Hemsky might only bring ,they should wait till trade deadline with him as well to get maximum value . we are still going in a negative direction from Hoecoff deal and that's disturbing . Even if we kept Horc and Hemsky we were fine with cap space with enough left over to start improving . Now we hacve more cap space but I defy you to find where we are better with this trade included . Happy 4th of July .

What kind of return are you hoping to get for a 35 y/o 3rd line sub 40 point player? I think we are the ones that got the steal. Once the starting lineup is set, I think I'll be able to find how we got better with this trade.

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#167 Crackenbury
July 04 2013, 09:35PM
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@Jordan Nugent-Hallkins

There is little to worry about. Teams find a way to pay their stars and build complementary players around them. The Blackhawks are a good example of what successful teams do to keep their core together and make multiple runs at Stanley Cups. I look forward to the day the Oilers become winners and need to do the same.

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#168 WhattaMike
July 04 2013, 09:35PM
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Was briefly listening to Dan Tencer's show earlier..and Bob Stauffer came on. He seemed to be hinting that both Clarkson and goalie Bryzgalov may be here with the Oilers...

I am not trying to push wrong statements or bring rumours up to mislead but....

Stauffer's thoughts and/or insights usually come true so these can be pretty good possibilities at this time...but it also sounds like a big contract may be given to Clarkson...

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#169 Tom
July 04 2013, 09:36PM
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BURROWSHASCRABS wrote:

DUDE! Shut your stupid mouth!!

Agreed... Dude shut your stupid mouth...

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#170 John Chambers
July 04 2013, 09:36PM
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TeeVee wrote:

After the swear-fest that Grabovski went on today about being stuck on the 3rd/4th line, I sure hope the Oil don't sign him.

Call it vulgarity / call it passion.

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#171 dunk7
July 04 2013, 09:37PM
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@madjam

Please tell me you aren't comparing Seguin to Horcoff...how do we block a persons comment on here? ;-)

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#172 WhattaMike
July 04 2013, 09:41PM
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@TeeVee

LMAO...yeah that was a lot of swearing by Grabovski eh...Didn't Bruce Boudrea talk like that not too long ago???

At least Bragger showed passion...and tomorrow was his wedding day too...so now all his guests (many Leaf players) are giving him and new wife a wedding gift and now new house warming gifts too I suppose

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#173 WhattaMike
July 04 2013, 09:42PM
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OOPS...LOL..I meant Grabber (Grabovski)not Bragger

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#174 Naky
July 04 2013, 09:43PM
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Hall should definitely get the captaincy out of any of the kids, should the kids get it. Why? Because on the ice, he shows more fire than any of them and never quits. Anyone remember that game against Calgary where the Oilers pulled their goalie and they scored the empty netter when Hall had to basically play goalie? I do. For whatever reason, the entire team had given up on the game at that point. Everyone except Hall. You could tell he was furious at the rest of the team for playing like a bunch of losers and giving up.

It's time that we had a captain that took the team on his back and drove them forward. The last two captains we've had were chosen because they were supposed to be good mentors who had the respect of the room with their professionalism and could talk a good game. Moreau only drove the team into the penalty box and Horcoff couldn't walk the walk after talking the talk on most given nights. It'd be nice to see a captain who can up the ante and lead the charge for once.

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#175 Johe
July 04 2013, 09:44PM
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madjam wrote:

Comparibles : Seguin was thought to be making far to much cap money to keep him as Bruins slated 3rd line center . He's a very good player like Horcoff is . Difference is we got nothing of consequence for a good talent like Horcoff and the Bruins (cudos to them ) did for Seguin . You really think we didn't get hosed?

What the heck are you talking about? *facepalm*

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#176 TeeVee
July 04 2013, 09:44PM
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John Chambers wrote:

Call it vulgarity / call it passion.

All I'm saying is he only has a spot on the 3rd line, tops, here so he most likely will not like it ;-)

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#177 Zach
July 04 2013, 09:44PM
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madjam wrote:

Comparibles : Seguin was thought to be making far to much cap money to keep him as Bruins slated 3rd line center . He's a very good player like Horcoff is . Difference is we got nothing of consequence for a good talent like Horcoff and the Bruins (cudos to them ) did for Seguin . You really think we didn't get hosed?

I have never commented previously to this, however I feel compelled to do so in order to ridicule one of the worst "comparibles" (sic) anyone has ever had the audacity to propose.

Seguin as a comparable to Horcoff... seriously? That is manifestly ridiculous, requires no counter-argument, and disqualifies you from any further discussion.

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#178 WhattaMike
July 04 2013, 09:45PM
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@Naky

I agree with ya and applaud your support of Hall for Captain..He is READY TO LEAD!!!!

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#179 TeeVee
July 04 2013, 09:46PM
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WhattaMike wrote:

@TeeVee

LMAO...yeah that was a lot of swearing by Grabovski eh...Didn't Bruce Boudrea talk like that not too long ago???

At least Bragger showed passion...and tomorrow was his wedding day too...so now all his guests (many Leaf players) are giving him and new wife a wedding gift and now new house warming gifts too I suppose

Not knocking him at all for not wanting to be stuck in a position that he can't contribute the way he knows he can.

I'd be pissed too.

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#180 WhattaMike
July 04 2013, 09:49PM
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@madjam

Bud....the money that was going to Horcoff is now going to another younger very good player that the Oilers will sign (who yet-???) and that is the big trade factor...That salary money determines the trade value for of Horcoff...plus the 7th rounder and P. Larsen...

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#181 madjam
July 04 2013, 09:51PM
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There goes the wow factor , cause it's as wowsey as a trade can get .

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#182 WhattaMike
July 04 2013, 09:52PM
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@TeeVee

I hearb ya and agree...I would be pissed too. I don't think Grabovski was actually bitchin about being on 3rd to 4th line...it was more how Carlyle treated him...

He will be going hard against Tor in future games ...

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#183 Jordan Nugent-Hallkins
July 04 2013, 09:54PM
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@Naky

This, this, so much this. Couldn't have said it better.

Hall's a guy who'll block a shot in the last minute of a hopeless game, then turn around and beat Gretzky's fastest hat trick record.

That screams captain to me.

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#184 WhattaMikew
July 04 2013, 09:55PM
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New Question...

Does the letting go of Belanger and the trade of Horcoff lead the Oilers into now trying Hall at centre???

IMO, I would try it thru training campo at least...Messier did it!!!

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#185 Rocket
July 04 2013, 09:56PM
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@WhattaMike

Yeah I caught his show too.

My thoughts: Just say no to breezy!

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#186 Rocket
July 04 2013, 09:57PM
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WhattaMikew wrote:

New Question...

Does the letting go of Belanger and the trade of Horcoff lead the Oilers into now trying Hall at centre???

IMO, I would try it thru training campo at least...Messier did it!!!

Um... no. Hall is fine where he is.

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#187 Smokey
July 04 2013, 10:08PM
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TeeVee wrote:

After the swear-fest that Grabovski went on today about being stuck on the 3rd/4th line, I sure hope the Oil don't sign him.

Grabby is not smart. Hes going to get 10 mil in a buyout and he probably reduced his suitors. Like seriously, you get you 10 mil. Sign a 4 year deal for 4 mil. You've just made better coin. For an extra few mil, I'd staple my lips to Carlyles fat ass.

He has had so many priblems you and with all the culture issues, I think you pass. I love the player not the person.

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#188 David S
July 04 2013, 10:11PM
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madjam wrote:

The nightmare deal ,one of the worst we have ever done . We sell salary cap , but have to take on a garbage part they want to get rid of and toss ,giving us an additional contract and a 7th round pick to make us feel better . Why even bother with that useless contract ? We got to go that low in additions we'll be lucky to reach 29th spot next year . Discusting .

I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

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#189 WhattaMike
July 04 2013, 10:14PM
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@Smokey

I agree on that he was pissed and was against Carlyle mainly.. but I agree with ya and hope the Oilers not get him and they instead go straight for Boyd Gordon and/or Zack Smith (trade deal???) right away as the next 3rd line centre.

Smith is young enough to grow with this team for one to two yrs himself.

I also Like Lapiere for 4th line at a cheaper contract too as he does win faceoffs, pisses of players and he does PK duty too.

LOL...I hope Brown has his back cause Brownie is gonna be very busy with that kind of teammate (if Lapiere is signed)

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#190 Smokey
July 04 2013, 10:15PM
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Zach wrote:

I have never commented previously to this, however I feel compelled to do so in order to ridicule one of the worst "comparibles" (sic) anyone has ever had the audacity to propose.

Seguin as a comparable to Horcoff... seriously? That is manifestly ridiculous, requires no counter-argument, and disqualifies you from any further discussion.

Ya,I agree when has Seguin put up 73 points abd been a first line center on a team that went to the Stanley cup.

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#191 Oilers4ever
July 04 2013, 10:39PM
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John Chambers wrote:

Hall was born ready. That's why they had to pick him over Seguin - he's a champion to the bone.

Agreed. Hallsy is the heart and soul of this team and if he's flying the team tends to go as he does. Nobody else should be the captain of this team for the next 15 years except Hall.

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#192 Oilers4ever
July 04 2013, 10:51PM
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madjam wrote:

Comparibles : Seguin was thought to be making far to much cap money to keep him as Bruins slated 3rd line center . He's a very good player like Horcoff is . Difference is we got nothing of consequence for a good talent like Horcoff and the Bruins (cudos to them ) did for Seguin . You really think we didn't get hosed?

I don't know what you are smoking, but I want some of it. As others have said, Seguin's been to the cup twice in his career. Won it once (yes they had other players obviously that made Boston awesome). But seriously, comparing Seguin with Horcoff, not even close. I loved Horcs passion, but he can't hold Seguin's jock strap. Not even comparable talent.

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#193 madjam
July 04 2013, 10:56PM
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Before you all run Horcoff out the door maybe you should all view Horcoff's accomplishments here over the years . Points , W/Championships lock out year and playoffs . Seguin will have to be pretty good to do so well . We were still a much better club with Horc in lineup last season . Horcoff's also had 73 points in a season by the way and occasionally was close to a point a game . He can be proud, and we should be proud of what he did and accomplished here . Captain and special team player every team needs , also union rep and very well spoken . And yes , he does have character despite some that don't care for him and what he has bought us all these years . One thing to run me down , but disrespectfull to be running Horcoff down .

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#194 StHenriOilBomb
July 04 2013, 11:02PM
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Smokey wrote:

Ya,I agree when has Seguin put up 73 points abd been a first line center on a team that went to the Stanley cup.

I know, eh? All Seguin has done is score 29 goals and 67 points on a cup winning team... Too bad he's not in the final years of his career and getting worse by the week, otherwise we could compare him to Horc...

By your logic, should we have gotten rid of RNH instead of Horcoff? He's only put up 52 ONCE!

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#195 quintana
July 04 2013, 11:04PM
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madjam wrote:

Before you all run Horcoff out the door maybe you should all view Horcoff's accomplishments here over the years . Points , W/Championships lock out year and playoffs . Seguin will have to be pretty good to do so well . We were still a much better club with Horc in lineup last season . Horcoff's also had 73 points in a season by the way and occasionally was close to a point a game . He can be proud, and we should be proud of what he did and accomplished here . Captain and special team player every team needs , also union rep and very well spoken . And yes , he does have character despite some that don't care for him and what he has bought us all these years . One thing to run me down , but disrespectfull to be running Horcoff down .

SHUT UP...

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#196 MKE
July 04 2013, 11:04PM
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madjam wrote:

No I was not . On the contrary ,I thought it best to keep him till at least his final year and deal him at the trade deadline to maximize the return if you recall . At half his salary cap hit he is still a very good and effective player - Dallas really lucked out and got a steal of a deal . We , on the other hand , took on a useless contract for a player probably as effective as Plante or Teubert -both slated to get rid of by the sounds of it . I cringe to think what Hemsky might only bring ,they should wait till trade deadline with him as well to get maximum value . we are still going in a negative direction from Hoecoff deal and that's disturbing . Even if we kept Horc and Hemsky we were fine with cap space with enough left over to start improving . Now we hacve more cap space but I defy you to find where we are better with this trade included . Happy 4th of July .

And yet you've been freaking out all day that MacT hadn't made any moves....

Again.....give MacT and chance and see what happens over the next three weeks.

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#197 TeeVee
July 04 2013, 11:05PM
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WhattaMike wrote:

@Smokey

I agree on that he was pissed and was against Carlyle mainly.. but I agree with ya and hope the Oilers not get him and they instead go straight for Boyd Gordon and/or Zack Smith (trade deal???) right away as the next 3rd line centre.

Smith is young enough to grow with this team for one to two yrs himself.

I also Like Lapiere for 4th line at a cheaper contract too as he does win faceoffs, pisses of players and he does PK duty too.

LOL...I hope Brown has his back cause Brownie is gonna be very busy with that kind of teammate (if Lapiere is signed)

I'm a huge hater/fan of Lapierre :-)

We can use him on our 4th line.

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#198 Zach
July 04 2013, 11:10PM
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Smokey wrote:

Ya,I agree when has Seguin put up 73 points abd been a first line center on a team that went to the Stanley cup.

We didn't trade the Horcoff from seven years ago. I fully agree that in 2006 the value of Horcoff exceeded that of the then 14 y.o. Seguin. The Horcoff I was referencing scored 34 points in his last complete season (while 20 y.o. Seguin was scoring 67 points). None of this is to say that Horcoff is worthless. It is only to say that his value is negated at his cap hit. For a team like Dallas, Seguin is a good bet as a first-line centre at his cap hit. Horcoff will be on their third line. So they traded the appropriate assets for a first line centre and then (appropriately) traded less for their new third line centre. Both have the same cap hit. One will likely improve and the other will likely decline. Both can play but one can be great and the other is there to support that potential greatness. One is now essential to the team's future and the other is (at best) a bridge to that future.

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#199 MKE
July 04 2013, 11:13PM
Trash it!
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madjam wrote:

The nightmare deal ,one of the worst we have ever done . We sell salary cap , but have to take on a garbage part they want to get rid of and toss ,giving us an additional contract and a 7th round pick to make us feel better . Why even bother with that useless contract ? We got to go that low in additions we'll be lucky to reach 29th spot next year . Discusting .

Do you ever have a positive outlook on anything? Ever?

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#200 bazmagoo
July 04 2013, 11:15PM
Trash it!
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trashes
+1
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props

Does anyone know if this trade was confirmed or not?

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