HORCOFF TO DALLAS...

Jason Gregor
July 04 2013 06:24PM

 

Craig MacTavish's first major move happened today when he traded Shawn Horcoff to the Dallas Stars. Bob McKenzie tweeted that Horcoff is off to Dallas. We found out later via Darren Dreger that Horcoff was moved for D-man Philip Larsen and a 7th round pick in 2016. The Oilers didn't have to eat any salary in the deal, so they just freed up $5.5 million in cap space.
 
This deal isn't a major surprise. MacTavish made it clear a month ago that Horcoff likely wasn't coming back, and Jim Nill told me on my radio show a few weeks ago that he wanted to add a veteran centre.

With the Oilers buying out Belanger and trading Horcoff, it is obvious MacTavish will be adding a centre in free agency or via trade. 

Larsen was a 5th round pick in 2008, and he's played 95 games, including 32 last year. He shots right and is a decent puck mover. This will push Corey Potter further down the depth chart, and should end the speculation that Tom Gilbert will return. The Oilers don't need another non-hitting right-shooting D-man.

This trade allows the Oilers to swing big for David Clarkson, if they choose.

David Clarkson was in Edmonton today to meet with the Oilers, according to Aaron Ward. Price point is going to be the issue with Clarkson. I think most agree he is the type of player the Oilers need, but not at $6 million/year.

Stay tuned.. 

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One of Canada's most versatile sports personalities. Jason hosts The Jason Gregor Show, weekdays from 2 to 6 p.m., on TSN 1260, and he writes a column every Monday in the Edmonton Journal. You can follow him on Twitter at twitter.com/JasonGregor
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#151 DSF
July 04 2013, 08:31PM
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WhattaMike wrote:

Okay now I am getting confused...Is Horcoff traded for 7th round pick and (D) Larsen? or a 7th rounder and (D) Trevor Daley?

Can anyone clarify please???

Larssen.

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#152 Lochenzo
July 04 2013, 08:33PM
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With a spare buyout, maybe you can approach Philly about Coburn with the added incentive of taking one of their undesirable contracts and then buying it out. Deadline for buyouts is tonight tho, I believe.

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#153 Crackenbury
July 04 2013, 08:34PM
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Why does anyone care what any given player makes? Does it somehow affect your everyday life?

If you're hoping for a certain player to be signed, just leave it that and hope they sign them.

I could give a rats a$$ what the Oilers decide they are willing to pay a player to play here. They have a cap to work within and certain players that are willing to come play in Edmonton. They pay whatever they need to and no more to get the player they want.

Inevitably some D-bag will come along afterwards and say what a terrible deal it is and MacT"s an idiot for paying so much.

Book it!

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#154 Ca$h-Money!
July 04 2013, 08:37PM
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@Crackenbury

When you pay someone more than they are worth it hurts your team. For example, if you theoretically pay your third line centre 5.5 million for lots of years, it becomes difficult to add more top 6 forwards to improve your team once you run into the cap.

Not that anyone would ever pay their 3rd line centre 5.5 million with lots of term. It's just a theoretical example to illustrate a point.

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#155 Clyde Frog
July 04 2013, 08:39PM
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@DSF

Ouch, that hurt...

On the inside....

But you forget he is replacing 5.5 million in salary... That means he is actually getting paid -4.5 mil for cap reasons.

I still haven't heard you explain how Horcoff went from unmovable in your eyes at half salary to us picking up 1 year and 1 million in cap in a 23 year old defence man with 1 great year and 1 poor year in the NHL.

Don't worry I'll wait patiently.

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#156 madjam
July 04 2013, 08:40PM
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The nightmare deal ,one of the worst we have ever done . We sell salary cap , but have to take on a garbage part they want to get rid of and toss ,giving us an additional contract and a 7th round pick to make us feel better . Why even bother with that useless contract ? We got to go that low in additions we'll be lucky to reach 29th spot next year . Discusting .

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#157 Lochenzo
July 04 2013, 08:43PM
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Musta sold Nill on the fact that Seguin needs a mentor.

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#158 WhattaMike
July 04 2013, 08:43PM
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@DSF

Thanks for the carification of Larsen..

@Lochenzo

Other than hearing Clarkson is in Edm right now to negotiate and tour, I think you may be right...and I am wondering now about a top 3rd line centre too... (cause I believe Gagner is here this yr at least for sure now)

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#159 DSF
July 04 2013, 08:44PM
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madjam wrote:

The nightmare deal ,one of the worst we have ever done . We sell salary cap , but have to take on a garbage part they want to get rid of and toss ,giving us an additional contract and a 7th round pick to make us feel better . Why even bother with that useless contract ? We got to go that low in additions we'll be lucky to reach 29th spot next year . Discusting .

There's another way to look at it.

The Oilers have moved Horcoff's $5.5M cap hit for a $1.1M cap hit.

So, they, on the surface, have saved $4.4M.

Now, they need to acquire another centre to replace Horcoff.

If they have to pay him $3.5M, they only saved $900K.

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#160 DSF
July 04 2013, 08:48PM
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Clyde Frog wrote:

Ouch, that hurt...

On the inside....

But you forget he is replacing 5.5 million in salary... That means he is actually getting paid -4.5 mil for cap reasons.

I still haven't heard you explain how Horcoff went from unmovable in your eyes at half salary to us picking up 1 year and 1 million in cap in a 23 year old defence man with 1 great year and 1 poor year in the NHL.

Don't worry I'll wait patiently.

Horcoff was moveable because Dallas was able to dump a player with a $1.1M cap hit.

Horcoff is only getting paid $4M this season so the Oilers only save $2.9M in real dollars.

Good work by MacT in my opinion.

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#161 Crackenbury
July 04 2013, 08:49PM
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@Ca$h-Money!

Really? I never would have guessed that. Maybe you should get on the phone and let MacT know so he doesn't make the same mistake.

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#162 Crackenbury
July 04 2013, 08:50PM
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Jordan Nugent-Hallkins wrote:

People care about salaries because we have 5 big names that are gonna need 5 big paychecks to stay here. Overpaying one guy could mean we have no cap room to re-sign the young talent we just gained from being the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked.

You better get on the phone too! MacT is about to blow it big time.

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#163 WhattaMike
July 04 2013, 08:52PM
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@madjam

ya seem disturbed about the horcoff trade dude...were ya not one of the many who have complained about horcoff's contract being overpaid and have added the oilers must dump Horcoff/

If not then i take this back bud..

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#164 Jordan Nugent-Hallkins
July 04 2013, 08:52PM
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@Crackenbury

You're the one posting idiotic comments asking why people care about salaries. Put your helmet on and go back to watching baseball.

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#165 DSF
July 04 2013, 08:54PM
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John Chambers wrote:

Right, but they also save the $1M on a 7th Dman from having in effect replacing Peckham.

So if, for instance, they signed Grabovski for $3.5M they just a) got a better 3rd line C, b) improved their defensive depth, albeit marginally, and c) still shaved $2M off the cap.

It's a very good outcome.

Sure.

If the Oilers could sign Grabovski for $3.5M, but he won't sign for that.

He'd be off to the KHL in a heartbeat if that was the best offer.

Your castle has a foundation of sand.

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#166 WhattaMike
July 04 2013, 08:55PM
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@Lochenzo

hey Bud...Colorado made Landeskog the captain very soon...and Crosby was made captian quickly too.. and so I think Hall is ready after 3 yrs on this team..

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#167 Naky
July 04 2013, 08:59PM
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The acquisition of Larsen means Potter should be nervous. I know someone else said that he basically takes Peckham's place on the roster, but I don't think so as they don't play the same style of game. He does, however, seem like a perfect person to put pressure on Potter who I would assume the organization is neither pleased nor displeased with. Potter was Renney's man and since his extension he hasn't played like he did to earn that extension.

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#168 dunk7
July 04 2013, 08:59PM
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I don't get how people are ripping on Larsen...he's a young D-Man (23) that had a good rookie season and a sub par 2nd year.

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#169 DSF
July 04 2013, 09:11PM
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dunk7 wrote:

I don't get how people are ripping on Larsen...he's a young D-Man (23) that had a good rookie season and a sub par 2nd year.

In his 23 year old season, Cam Barker scored 6 goals and 40 points.

Barker is 6'3" 215 while Larssen is 6'1' 183.

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#170 John Chambers
July 04 2013, 09:12PM
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Lochenzo wrote:

Having a debate with myself about Hall being captain. He's going to be a great captain. But part of me worries whether it's too soon. It's hockey country. People were on MacT's back on his first day on the job as GM.

Hall was born ready. That's why they had to pick him over Seguin - he's a champion to the bone.

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#171 madjam
July 04 2013, 09:17PM
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WhattaMike wrote:

@madjam

ya seem disturbed about the horcoff trade dude...were ya not one of the many who have complained about horcoff's contract being overpaid and have added the oilers must dump Horcoff/

If not then i take this back bud..

No I was not . On the contrary ,I thought it best to keep him till at least his final year and deal him at the trade deadline to maximize the return if you recall . At half his salary cap hit he is still a very good and effective player - Dallas really lucked out and got a steal of a deal . We , on the other hand , took on a useless contract for a player probably as effective as Plante or Teubert -both slated to get rid of by the sounds of it . I cringe to think what Hemsky might only bring ,they should wait till trade deadline with him as well to get maximum value . we are still going in a negative direction from Hoecoff deal and that's disturbing . Even if we kept Horc and Hemsky we were fine with cap space with enough left over to start improving . Now we hacve more cap space but I defy you to find where we are better with this trade included . Happy 4th of July .

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#172 J.R.
July 04 2013, 09:19PM
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I know its been said already but...

Look at Clarkson's stats. There is no way he is even worth 5m/season....let alone 6m.

MacT is on crack if he even considers this kind of "bold" move.

4m tops for a guy who has scored 30 what...once?

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#173 Naky
July 04 2013, 09:27PM
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BTW, the Barker to Larsen comparisons are stupid. Barker was drafted like third overall in his draft class while Larsen was probably never really expected to make the NHL at all. He's shown he can produce and is worth a continued look at while providing competition to our depth defensemen like Potter and the now ex-Oiler depth callup options like Peckham/Teubert. Barker, on the other hand, is almost a total bust years after he had his initial success. Honestly, were it not for his size, initial success, and high draft position he'd have been out of this league a couple years ago.

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#174 Jordan Nugent-Hallkins
July 04 2013, 09:28PM
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@Crackenbury

Well part of the reason Oiler fans care so much is, most of us are nervously eyeing the horizon for when the rest of the young gun's ELCs expire. We have a limited window to win here, salary-wise, before the raw talent of Hall, Yak, et al forces pay raises and causes the team to (at least partially) explode, as the Hawks did after their first cup win. In a cap world, I'd argue salary is equally important as the player earning it.

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#175 WhattaMike
July 04 2013, 09:28PM
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@madjam

Ok..thanks for the refreshed opinion ya had..

But, i say that larsen only needs to prove where he is at before getting ripped as just being a watsed contract. Now...that being said..his contract is much less (even more so 2 way in AHL) than Horcoff too>

Also...as for the Horcoff to Dallas deal, no one here (or no one very much) has mentioned the truth too that Horcoff dictated where he would be dealt to with the NTC or NMC...

Now to everyone out here..., even if Clarkson costs quite a bit for the Oilers..if he can be given a smaller term contract and he does produce pts and leads the team with mentorship and he does have very good seasons during his term here...then he won't be a disaster at all.. but I really do hope myself that he does not get $6 mil or plus per yr...

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#176 Shifty
July 04 2013, 09:31PM
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John Chambers wrote:

Hall was born ready. That's why they had to pick him over Seguin - he's a champion to the bone.

I have a feeling he won't get the C. I don't know what he's like in the locker room, but based on what I see of him on the bench and ice, he's a little too hot headed to talk to the ref's, and he doesn't look very vocal with the players other than RNH and Eb's.

I'm not he saying he definatley shouldn't get it, I'd just be a tiny bit suprised if he did.

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#177 madjam
July 04 2013, 09:34PM
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Comparibles : Seguin was thought to be making far to much cap money to keep him as Bruins slated 3rd line center . He's a very good player like Horcoff is . Difference is we got nothing of consequence for a good talent like Horcoff and the Bruins (cudos to them ) did for Seguin . You really think we didn't get hosed?

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#178 dunk7
July 04 2013, 09:35PM
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madjam wrote:

No I was not . On the contrary ,I thought it best to keep him till at least his final year and deal him at the trade deadline to maximize the return if you recall . At half his salary cap hit he is still a very good and effective player - Dallas really lucked out and got a steal of a deal . We , on the other hand , took on a useless contract for a player probably as effective as Plante or Teubert -both slated to get rid of by the sounds of it . I cringe to think what Hemsky might only bring ,they should wait till trade deadline with him as well to get maximum value . we are still going in a negative direction from Hoecoff deal and that's disturbing . Even if we kept Horc and Hemsky we were fine with cap space with enough left over to start improving . Now we hacve more cap space but I defy you to find where we are better with this trade included . Happy 4th of July .

What kind of return are you hoping to get for a 35 y/o 3rd line sub 40 point player? I think we are the ones that got the steal. Once the starting lineup is set, I think I'll be able to find how we got better with this trade.

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#179 Crackenbury
July 04 2013, 09:35PM
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@Jordan Nugent-Hallkins

There is little to worry about. Teams find a way to pay their stars and build complementary players around them. The Blackhawks are a good example of what successful teams do to keep their core together and make multiple runs at Stanley Cups. I look forward to the day the Oilers become winners and need to do the same.

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#180 WhattaMike
July 04 2013, 09:35PM
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Was briefly listening to Dan Tencer's show earlier..and Bob Stauffer came on. He seemed to be hinting that both Clarkson and goalie Bryzgalov may be here with the Oilers...

I am not trying to push wrong statements or bring rumours up to mislead but....

Stauffer's thoughts and/or insights usually come true so these can be pretty good possibilities at this time...but it also sounds like a big contract may be given to Clarkson...

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#181 Tom
July 04 2013, 09:36PM
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BURROWSHASCRABS wrote:

DUDE! Shut your stupid mouth!!

Agreed... Dude shut your stupid mouth...

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#182 John Chambers
July 04 2013, 09:36PM
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TeeVee wrote:

After the swear-fest that Grabovski went on today about being stuck on the 3rd/4th line, I sure hope the Oil don't sign him.

Call it vulgarity / call it passion.

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#183 dunk7
July 04 2013, 09:37PM
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@madjam

Please tell me you aren't comparing Seguin to Horcoff...how do we block a persons comment on here? ;-)

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#184 WhattaMike
July 04 2013, 09:41PM
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@TeeVee

LMAO...yeah that was a lot of swearing by Grabovski eh...Didn't Bruce Boudrea talk like that not too long ago???

At least Bragger showed passion...and tomorrow was his wedding day too...so now all his guests (many Leaf players) are giving him and new wife a wedding gift and now new house warming gifts too I suppose

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#185 WhattaMike
July 04 2013, 09:42PM
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OOPS...LOL..I meant Grabber (Grabovski)not Bragger

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#186 Naky
July 04 2013, 09:43PM
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Hall should definitely get the captaincy out of any of the kids, should the kids get it. Why? Because on the ice, he shows more fire than any of them and never quits. Anyone remember that game against Calgary where the Oilers pulled their goalie and they scored the empty netter when Hall had to basically play goalie? I do. For whatever reason, the entire team had given up on the game at that point. Everyone except Hall. You could tell he was furious at the rest of the team for playing like a bunch of losers and giving up.

It's time that we had a captain that took the team on his back and drove them forward. The last two captains we've had were chosen because they were supposed to be good mentors who had the respect of the room with their professionalism and could talk a good game. Moreau only drove the team into the penalty box and Horcoff couldn't walk the walk after talking the talk on most given nights. It'd be nice to see a captain who can up the ante and lead the charge for once.

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#187 TeeVee
July 04 2013, 09:44PM
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John Chambers wrote:

Call it vulgarity / call it passion.

All I'm saying is he only has a spot on the 3rd line, tops, here so he most likely will not like it ;-)

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#188 WhattaMike
July 04 2013, 09:45PM
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@Naky

I agree with ya and applaud your support of Hall for Captain..He is READY TO LEAD!!!!

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#189 TeeVee
July 04 2013, 09:46PM
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WhattaMike wrote:

@TeeVee

LMAO...yeah that was a lot of swearing by Grabovski eh...Didn't Bruce Boudrea talk like that not too long ago???

At least Bragger showed passion...and tomorrow was his wedding day too...so now all his guests (many Leaf players) are giving him and new wife a wedding gift and now new house warming gifts too I suppose

Not knocking him at all for not wanting to be stuck in a position that he can't contribute the way he knows he can.

I'd be pissed too.

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#190 WhattaMike
July 04 2013, 09:49PM
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@madjam

Bud....the money that was going to Horcoff is now going to another younger very good player that the Oilers will sign (who yet-???) and that is the big trade factor...That salary money determines the trade value for of Horcoff...plus the 7th rounder and P. Larsen...

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#191 madjam
July 04 2013, 09:51PM
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There goes the wow factor , cause it's as wowsey as a trade can get .

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#192 WhattaMike
July 04 2013, 09:52PM
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@TeeVee

I hearb ya and agree...I would be pissed too. I don't think Grabovski was actually bitchin about being on 3rd to 4th line...it was more how Carlyle treated him...

He will be going hard against Tor in future games ...

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#193 Jordan Nugent-Hallkins
July 04 2013, 09:54PM
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@Naky

This, this, so much this. Couldn't have said it better.

Hall's a guy who'll block a shot in the last minute of a hopeless game, then turn around and beat Gretzky's fastest hat trick record.

That screams captain to me.

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#194 WhattaMikew
July 04 2013, 09:55PM
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New Question...

Does the letting go of Belanger and the trade of Horcoff lead the Oilers into now trying Hall at centre???

IMO, I would try it thru training campo at least...Messier did it!!!

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#195 Rocket
July 04 2013, 09:56PM
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@WhattaMike

Yeah I caught his show too.

My thoughts: Just say no to breezy!

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#196 Rocket
July 04 2013, 09:57PM
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WhattaMikew wrote:

New Question...

Does the letting go of Belanger and the trade of Horcoff lead the Oilers into now trying Hall at centre???

IMO, I would try it thru training campo at least...Messier did it!!!

Um... no. Hall is fine where he is.

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#197 Smokey
July 04 2013, 10:08PM
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TeeVee wrote:

After the swear-fest that Grabovski went on today about being stuck on the 3rd/4th line, I sure hope the Oil don't sign him.

Grabby is not smart. Hes going to get 10 mil in a buyout and he probably reduced his suitors. Like seriously, you get you 10 mil. Sign a 4 year deal for 4 mil. You've just made better coin. For an extra few mil, I'd staple my lips to Carlyles fat ass.

He has had so many priblems you and with all the culture issues, I think you pass. I love the player not the person.

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#198 WhattaMike
July 04 2013, 10:14PM
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@Smokey

I agree on that he was pissed and was against Carlyle mainly.. but I agree with ya and hope the Oilers not get him and they instead go straight for Boyd Gordon and/or Zack Smith (trade deal???) right away as the next 3rd line centre.

Smith is young enough to grow with this team for one to two yrs himself.

I also Like Lapiere for 4th line at a cheaper contract too as he does win faceoffs, pisses of players and he does PK duty too.

LOL...I hope Brown has his back cause Brownie is gonna be very busy with that kind of teammate (if Lapiere is signed)

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#199 Oilers4ever
July 04 2013, 10:51PM
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madjam wrote:

Comparibles : Seguin was thought to be making far to much cap money to keep him as Bruins slated 3rd line center . He's a very good player like Horcoff is . Difference is we got nothing of consequence for a good talent like Horcoff and the Bruins (cudos to them ) did for Seguin . You really think we didn't get hosed?

I don't know what you are smoking, but I want some of it. As others have said, Seguin's been to the cup twice in his career. Won it once (yes they had other players obviously that made Boston awesome). But seriously, comparing Seguin with Horcoff, not even close. I loved Horcs passion, but he can't hold Seguin's jock strap. Not even comparable talent.

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#200 madjam
July 04 2013, 10:56PM
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Before you all run Horcoff out the door maybe you should all view Horcoff's accomplishments here over the years . Points , W/Championships lock out year and playoffs . Seguin will have to be pretty good to do so well . We were still a much better club with Horc in lineup last season . Horcoff's also had 73 points in a season by the way and occasionally was close to a point a game . He can be proud, and we should be proud of what he did and accomplished here . Captain and special team player every team needs , also union rep and very well spoken . And yes , he does have character despite some that don't care for him and what he has bought us all these years . One thing to run me down , but disrespectfull to be running Horcoff down .

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