HORCOFF TO DALLAS...

Jason Gregor
July 04 2013 06:24PM

 

Craig MacTavish's first major move happened today when he traded Shawn Horcoff to the Dallas Stars. Bob McKenzie tweeted that Horcoff is off to Dallas. We found out later via Darren Dreger that Horcoff was moved for D-man Philip Larsen and a 7th round pick in 2016. The Oilers didn't have to eat any salary in the deal, so they just freed up $5.5 million in cap space.
 
This deal isn't a major surprise. MacTavish made it clear a month ago that Horcoff likely wasn't coming back, and Jim Nill told me on my radio show a few weeks ago that he wanted to add a veteran centre.

With the Oilers buying out Belanger and trading Horcoff, it is obvious MacTavish will be adding a centre in free agency or via trade. 

Larsen was a 5th round pick in 2008, and he's played 95 games, including 32 last year. He shots right and is a decent puck mover. This will push Corey Potter further down the depth chart, and should end the speculation that Tom Gilbert will return. The Oilers don't need another non-hitting right-shooting D-man.

This trade allows the Oilers to swing big for David Clarkson, if they choose.

David Clarkson was in Edmonton today to meet with the Oilers, according to Aaron Ward. Price point is going to be the issue with Clarkson. I think most agree he is the type of player the Oilers need, but not at $6 million/year.

Stay tuned.. 

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One of Canada's most versatile sports personalities. Jason hosts The Jason Gregor Show, weekdays from 2 to 6 p.m., on TSN 1260, and he writes a column every Monday in the Edmonton Journal. You can follow him on Twitter at twitter.com/JasonGregor
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#201 StHenriOilBomb
July 04 2013, 11:02PM
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Smokey wrote:

Ya,I agree when has Seguin put up 73 points abd been a first line center on a team that went to the Stanley cup.

I know, eh? All Seguin has done is score 29 goals and 67 points on a cup winning team... Too bad he's not in the final years of his career and getting worse by the week, otherwise we could compare him to Horc...

By your logic, should we have gotten rid of RNH instead of Horcoff? He's only put up 52 ONCE!

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#202 MKE
July 04 2013, 11:04PM
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madjam wrote:

No I was not . On the contrary ,I thought it best to keep him till at least his final year and deal him at the trade deadline to maximize the return if you recall . At half his salary cap hit he is still a very good and effective player - Dallas really lucked out and got a steal of a deal . We , on the other hand , took on a useless contract for a player probably as effective as Plante or Teubert -both slated to get rid of by the sounds of it . I cringe to think what Hemsky might only bring ,they should wait till trade deadline with him as well to get maximum value . we are still going in a negative direction from Hoecoff deal and that's disturbing . Even if we kept Horc and Hemsky we were fine with cap space with enough left over to start improving . Now we hacve more cap space but I defy you to find where we are better with this trade included . Happy 4th of July .

And yet you've been freaking out all day that MacT hadn't made any moves....

Again.....give MacT and chance and see what happens over the next three weeks.

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#203 TeeVee
July 04 2013, 11:05PM
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WhattaMike wrote:

@Smokey

I agree on that he was pissed and was against Carlyle mainly.. but I agree with ya and hope the Oilers not get him and they instead go straight for Boyd Gordon and/or Zack Smith (trade deal???) right away as the next 3rd line centre.

Smith is young enough to grow with this team for one to two yrs himself.

I also Like Lapiere for 4th line at a cheaper contract too as he does win faceoffs, pisses of players and he does PK duty too.

LOL...I hope Brown has his back cause Brownie is gonna be very busy with that kind of teammate (if Lapiere is signed)

I'm a huge hater/fan of Lapierre :-)

We can use him on our 4th line.

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#204 Zach
July 04 2013, 11:10PM
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Smokey wrote:

Ya,I agree when has Seguin put up 73 points abd been a first line center on a team that went to the Stanley cup.

We didn't trade the Horcoff from seven years ago. I fully agree that in 2006 the value of Horcoff exceeded that of the then 14 y.o. Seguin. The Horcoff I was referencing scored 34 points in his last complete season (while 20 y.o. Seguin was scoring 67 points). None of this is to say that Horcoff is worthless. It is only to say that his value is negated at his cap hit. For a team like Dallas, Seguin is a good bet as a first-line centre at his cap hit. Horcoff will be on their third line. So they traded the appropriate assets for a first line centre and then (appropriately) traded less for their new third line centre. Both have the same cap hit. One will likely improve and the other will likely decline. Both can play but one can be great and the other is there to support that potential greatness. One is now essential to the team's future and the other is (at best) a bridge to that future.

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#205 bazmagoo
July 04 2013, 11:15PM
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Does anyone know if this trade was confirmed or not?

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#206 MKE
July 04 2013, 11:16PM
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bazmagoo wrote:

Does anyone know if this trade was confirmed or not?

I was under the impression it would be announced tomorrow because the Oilers brain trust was busy trying to woo David Clarkson

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#207 Smokey
July 04 2013, 11:17PM
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StHenriOilBomb wrote:

I know, eh? All Seguin has done is score 29 goals and 67 points on a cup winning team... Too bad he's not in the final years of his career and getting worse by the week, otherwise we could compare him to Horc...

By your logic, should we have gotten rid of RNH instead of Horcoff? He's only put up 52 ONCE!

I was trolling, thought it was obvious. I think Madjam is trolling u guys hard and thought I would sa something ridiculous. .Seguin never put up 67 ponts on a cup winning team though. He did it last year.

Ill take Seguin all nite long

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#208 Oilcruzer
July 04 2013, 11:23PM
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DSF wrote:

There's another way to look at it.

The Oilers have moved Horcoff's $5.5M cap hit for a $1.1M cap hit.

So, they, on the surface, have saved $4.4M.

Now, they need to acquire another centre to replace Horcoff.

If they have to pay him $3.5M, they only saved $900K.

I'm confused.

I thought I read that Horcoff couldn't be moved to the minors or if he could, his salary would count against the cap because of his age.

With Larsen's age and/or a two way contract, could he not be moved to the minors for zero cap hit?

Even if I'm wrong, and if Larson's a legit 7 defender, is that not a net savings on what another defender would likely cost (or at least break even) as an NHL starter?

It's a legit number of questions - not provoking here.

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#209 bazmagoo
July 04 2013, 11:24PM
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MKE wrote:

I was under the impression it would be announced tomorrow because the Oilers brain trust was busy trying to woo David Clarkson

Oh man, that would be a bummer if it wasn't confirmed and didn't happen. I've been happy all evening with the thought that the Oilers are moving on from 2006.

It's time for the young dudes to take control of this team, they are all super competitive and Horcoff isn't at this stage of his career.

Man I would be super bummed if this didn't happen.

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#210 MKE
July 04 2013, 11:27PM
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@bazmagoo

I believe its a done deal, it just hasn't been officially announced.

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#211 bazmagoo
July 04 2013, 11:28PM
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@Oilcruzer

Horcoff's salary would definitely still count against the cap.

Larsen likely would be on a two way contract, which would mean he could be sent down to the A.

Even it he was on a way one contract, I think there is a minimum amount you can bury in the minors because of his age.

Don't quote me on that though, I'm high and hungry right now after playing hockey so not a great combination, ha.

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#212 bazmagoo
July 04 2013, 11:29PM
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MKE wrote:

I believe its a done deal, it just hasn't been officially announced.

Thank goodness, wow the Oilers actually might be competitive this year. Crazy thought, I was bummed out after the lack of moves at the draft, now I'm excited!

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#213 Rocket
July 04 2013, 11:51PM
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bazmagoo wrote:

Thank goodness, wow the Oilers actually might be competitive this year. Crazy thought, I was bummed out after the lack of moves at the draft, now I'm excited!

Hopefully The Oilers will get another centreman. Otherwise I don't think they will be too competitive.

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#214 reaperfunkss (2nd tier fan)
July 04 2013, 11:51PM
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First positive thought i have had for the Oilers in a Long time. I like this deal in the sense that although not spectacular it dumps a bad contract for a prospect type d-man and a pick, The more picks the better I say.

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#215 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
July 04 2013, 11:54PM
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I don't care how much money Clarkson will be making for the next 5 yrs. I'm not paying him. I'm just glad he's an Oiler.

....just getting warmed up for tomorrow, sorry;)

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#216 bazmagoo
July 04 2013, 11:55PM
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Is it just me or should the Oilers go after Grabovski? I watched a fair amount of the Boston-Toronto series and I think Grabovski was a) pretty unlucky with his scoring chances and b) a total game changer when on the ice. Pretty big momentum swings when he was on the ice, a fairly dominant player considering he was getting 3rd line minutes. He played in a checking role, was effective in that role, and has some major wheels in addition to experience playing in the top 6. He whined a little bit after getting bought out, but it's a pretty insulting thing to do when you consider he was 1 year into a 4 year contract. Sounds like a high skill level with a chip on this shoulder, sign me up! (at around $3.5 million for 3 years.)*edit) and he was throwing his body (however small) whenever he had the chance in the playoffs.

I keep saying one thing, which I'm going to say again. Size in the top 6 isn't the problem on the Oilers, it's size and grit in the bottom 6. Our bottom six have been pretty whatever the political correct word is for p u $ $ ies over the last few years. We don't need goons, we need guys who don't like getting pushed around and will stand up for themselves (fight) when pushed. Would love to include Hall in that mix, lol, he's the second coming of Messier if he ever has the balls to do it.

Just my opinion.

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#217 David S
July 04 2013, 11:57PM
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Rocket wrote:

Hopefully The Oilers will get another centreman. Otherwise I don't think they will be too competitive.

#MasterOfUnderstatement

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#218 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
July 04 2013, 11:59PM
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MKE wrote:

I believe its a done deal, it just hasn't been officially announced.

The players involved are already capgeeked. If its on there, that's pretty official, isn't it?

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#219 bazmagoo
July 05 2013, 12:00AM
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@Next up, is Connor McJesus.

I don't know man, why hasn't TSN confirmed it? Does Horcoff have to waive his no-trade clause?

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#220 MKE
July 05 2013, 12:04AM
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Next up, is Connor McJesus. wrote:

The players involved are already capgeeked. If its on there, that's pretty official, isn't it?

I would think so. Shawn was also told the deal was done

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#221 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
July 05 2013, 12:05AM
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bazmagoo wrote:

I don't know man, why hasn't TSN confirmed it? Does Horcoff have to waive his no-trade clause?

I believe his N/M was reduced July 1st. The Stars were already on his list though. I did wonder what the ++ meant in the original tweet though.

Maybe Nill's trying to grind MacTavish for half his salary still.

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#222 MKE
July 05 2013, 12:09AM
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@Next up, is Connor McJesus.

I think the delay in announcing the deal had more to do with Clarkson being in town and getting every ounce of managements attention.

Plus i think Nill actually sees value in Horcoff

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#223 bazmagoo
July 05 2013, 12:09AM
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David S wrote:

#MasterOfUnderstatement

Come on, I'm ok with Ladner starting in the 3rd line center position, ha maybe someday but not right now.

Hemsky for Zack Smith (as 4th line centre) and sign Boyd Gordon as the 3rd. Problem solved.

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#224 bazmagoo
July 05 2013, 12:10AM
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@MKE

Horcoff is a valuable 3rd line centre, plus the new owner gets an inflated cap hit while not paying the full amount, giving the impression he's "paying to the full salary cap" to create a winning team. Might sell tickets, who knows. *edit* The Oil just need to move on.

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#225 MKE
July 05 2013, 12:14AM
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@bazmagoo

I agree.

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#226 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
July 05 2013, 12:17AM
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Maybe the timing is right to land another first for Hemsky in a week, for teams that miss out on Filppula and Clarkson?

Hemsky and a first for Dustin Brown and Matt Greene (salary dump)

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#227 bazmagoo
July 05 2013, 12:19AM
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@Next up, is Connor McJesus.

"Hemsky and a first for Dustin Brown and Matt Greene (salary dump)"

Sorry dude, that's delusional. You think LA is going to trade their captain for a draft pick and Ales Hemsky? bahahahahahahah

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#228 Walter Sobchak
July 05 2013, 12:20AM
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bazmagoo wrote:

I don't know man, why hasn't TSN confirmed it? Does Horcoff have to waive his no-trade clause?

The NHL can't approve it until the start of UFA season.

It's a done deal, both teams have agreed and the "paper" work has been filed, won't be approved until 3pm our time....could be 2.

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#229 Walter Sobchak
July 05 2013, 12:29AM
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I want the Philadelphia trade that brings us Couturier and Colburn.

Then I'll eat crow on MacTavish.

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#230 MKE
July 05 2013, 12:35AM
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@Walter Sobchak

Maybe its just me but I don't get why everyone is so high on Couturier. If he scored 4 goals in 46 games in Edmonton, everyone would want to get rid of him.

He has potential. But he hasn't shown anything to get me excited thus far

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#231 **
July 05 2013, 12:37AM
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@Walter Sobchak

as of midnight july 5th it is already listed on the tsn trade list

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#232 Rocket
July 05 2013, 12:54AM
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MKE wrote:

Maybe its just me but I don't get why everyone is so high on Couturier. If he scored 4 goals in 46 games in Edmonton, everyone would want to get rid of him.

He has potential. But he hasn't shown anything to get me excited thus far

Stats aside, Couterier has a lot that The Oilers (or any team) would want.

He's big, physical, good hands, good shot, 2-way checking centre that's still on his ELC playing with legit great older player mentors. Everyone is waiting for him to break out. Like you said, potential.

Every team could use a player like him in their system.

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#233 TDSM31
July 05 2013, 12:56AM
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madjam wrote:

Before you all run Horcoff out the door maybe you should all view Horcoff's accomplishments here over the years . Points , W/Championships lock out year and playoffs . Seguin will have to be pretty good to do so well . We were still a much better club with Horc in lineup last season . Horcoff's also had 73 points in a season by the way and occasionally was close to a point a game . He can be proud, and we should be proud of what he did and accomplished here . Captain and special team player every team needs , also union rep and very well spoken . And yes , he does have character despite some that don't care for him and what he has bought us all these years . One thing to run me down , but disrespectfull to be running Horcoff down .

FFS...try actually watching both of these players. It clear to anyone with a set of functioning eyeballs that Seguin is far more talented and has far more tools than Horc. No one is running Horc into the ground by saying he can't carry Seguins jockstrap...its just the laws of physics.

The only logic I can make of your comments is that you are actually Horcoff's mother...otherwise I'm at a loss.

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#234 marty62
July 05 2013, 01:22AM
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If we can pay Shaun horcoff $5.5 million a year to do nothing but ruin our powerplay and be a cancer in the dressing room, why cant we pay Clarkson $6 mill a year to score 12 to 18 goals and run some guys over....? just sayin....

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#235 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
July 05 2013, 01:24AM
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@bazmagoo

Whats the difference, this summer or next?

Captains get traded all the time, I do believe one was even traded today if I remember correctly.

Brown, like Seguin, didn't have a stellar playoffs either. It's not a matter of if, its when he gets moved.

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#236 nuge2nail
July 05 2013, 01:24AM
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Oiler Domination To Follow

Horcoff(5.5), Hemsky(5), Whitney(4), Khabibulan(3.75), Belanger(1.75), Sutton(1.75), Souray(1.5)

= 23.5 Million off the books

I'm looking forward to seeing who MacT spends it on.

Shocked he was able to get rid of Horcoff without a buyout. If he can dump Horcoff a 100% negative asset, what can he do with Hemsky a decent skilled player on a one year deal.

Smart to move him mid-july. With the kind of money The oilers have freed up Clarkson at 5 years 25 million wouldn't be so bad.

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#237 bazmagoo
July 05 2013, 01:28AM
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@**

I get a sense that's just the start - can't wait until Hall beats up a guy like Marchand or some other rat around the league. Here's hoping he can keep his temper in check and pick his battles like the Moose used to be able to do.

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#238 bazmagoo
July 05 2013, 01:32AM
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@Next up, is Connor McJesus.

Captain of a team that won the Stanley cup two seasons ago, and made it to the conference finals this year. Just a little bit of a different scenario when you compare him to a guy who captained a team who finished bottom 2 three years in a row and is getting pushed out by the young core of the Oilers and necessity.

Just a little bit of a difference dude, lol.

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#239 bazmagoo
July 05 2013, 01:33AM
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marty62 wrote:

If we can pay Shaun horcoff $5.5 million a year to do nothing but ruin our powerplay and be a cancer in the dressing room, why cant we pay Clarkson $6 mill a year to score 12 to 18 goals and run some guys over....? just sayin....

Fair point, but not a recipe for a winning franchise

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#240 bazmagoo
July 05 2013, 01:37AM
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@marty62

I do feel for Horcoff in a way though, even though I'd his harshest critic. He was given an inflated contract which he wasn't able to fulfill (not his fault), was also given the captaincy on a team that was tanking (on purpose). Overall I think he's a victim of circumstance and will likely thrive in Dallas.

Oilers just need to move on, plain and simple.

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#241 bazmagoo
July 05 2013, 01:38AM
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If/when Alfredsson signs in Boston tomorrow, Hemsky will be unloaded to Ottawa for Zack Smith. Book it! No salary dump needed again, beauty.

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#242 Slyers
July 05 2013, 01:52AM
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madjam wrote:

Comparibles : Seguin was thought to be making far to much cap money to keep him as Bruins slated 3rd line center . He's a very good player like Horcoff is . Difference is we got nothing of consequence for a good talent like Horcoff and the Bruins (cudos to them ) did for Seguin . You really think we didn't get hosed?

Forget Tattoo you are now officially mr. Rork Welcome to Fanasy Island!

Lol you just compared SEGUIN TO HORCOFF and became part of the dumbest post hall of fame. Lol. Talk to DSF about what you should do next.

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#243 Reg Dunlop
July 05 2013, 02:36AM
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Well, as critical of our GM as was I want to take this opportunity to credit MacT with making a miracle happen. Of course, if he can't fill the canyon at centre I reserve the right to go spider-monkey on him again; meanwhile, congrats MacT on a difficult job well done.

As for tear stained farewells for #10, look elsewhere. He raked in heavy scratch and the eggs in his pockets still aren't broken.

Finally, please stop grinding @Madjam. He is being reasonable in comparing Seguin to Horc, they were very similar in most areas until Tyler reached puberty.

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#244 TV6
July 05 2013, 05:39AM
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DSF wrote:

In his 23 year old season, Cam Barker scored 6 goals and 40 points.

Barker is 6'3" 215 while Larssen is 6'1' 183.

There is no doubt that Larsen is still a project for the River City Oilmen, but since you like to "run your numbers", how about comparing Larsen to Kronwall in the size department & the points department at their same ages then..?

Kronwalled is only 5'11', & when he was 24yrs old he was still bouncing from the AHL to the NHL & only played 27 games for the Winged Wheel & registered a whopping 9pts.

Good Grief... ('o')

x6

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#245 TV6
July 05 2013, 05:47AM
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DSF wrote:

God, it must suck to be you.

The Canucks paid Cam Barker $700K to be their 9th defenseman.

The Oilers are on the hook for Larssen to be their AHL level defenseman for $1.1M.

That's a difference of 50%.

Did you fail math class?

So $700K is 50% of $1.1mill then..?

What math class are you taking DSF..?

Pot Meet Kettle Missy...

x6

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#246 oilerjed
July 05 2013, 08:28AM
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Damn some of you peeps stayed up late over this. What is the hold up, why hasnt this been announced yet?? No waiting period so why not annouonce unless Kypreos? went off his rocker trying to outdo tsn lackies. Put us out of our misery already!

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#247 DrDave
July 05 2013, 09:17AM
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It's been announced on the Oiler's official Twitter and Facebook page. It's done!

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#248 The Fish
July 05 2013, 09:25AM
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Best of luck to Horcoff. He was a true professional and any sane person would have signed the same contract he did. Not his fault.

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