HORCOFF SAYS GOODBYE

Jason Gregor
July 09 2013 07:49AM

Shawn Horcoff is the most prolific 99th draft pick in NHL history. Don't scoff at that. The other 12 players picked 99th have combined for 457 points in 2082 games (418 games came from goalies, Marco Baron, Ray Emery and James Reimer). Horcoff tallied 447 points since the Oilers drafted him in the 4th round in 1998, and he's played 796 games. He's actually one of the best draft picks in Oiler history. Only ten Oiler draft picks have scored more points than Horcoff: Messier, Coffey, Kurri, Anderson, Arnott, Smyth, Satan, Tikkanen, Rucinsky and Hemsky and only Satan (111th) was drafted later than Horcoff.

Horcoff was the Oilers #1 centre and best forward during their 2006 Cup run, but that feels like decades ago for most fans and when Horcoff was traded last week many said, "good riddance." I'll never understand why fans got so upset with Horcoff's contract, yes it was an overpayment, but it never hindered the Oilers from signing other players.

Horcoff was far from perfect during his time as an Oiler, and during his tenure as Captain the Oilers struggled. It was time for him and the Oilers to part ways, and I believe Horcoff will go down as one of the most underappreciated Oilers of all-time.

Horcoff and I spoke after he was traded to Dallas and here is what he had to say about his time in Edmonton.

Gregor : Craig MacTavish said he had a conversation with you at the end of the season that maybe it was the right time for both parties to move on. Is that accurate?  

Horcoff : It is. We had a really good talk at the end of the year. I could tell the organization probably felt it was time to move in a different direction, to try something new. Then really for me too, I felt the same way. The last seven years have been tough. The last time I was in the playoffs, we were in the Stanley Cup Finals and one game away. It’s been hard, but I think at the same time it’s just time for a new start. It’s just time to start a new chapter, it felt right. I was pretty much sold on the fact that my time in Edmonton was done right at the end of the season.

Gregor : 2006 was a hell of a run, but since then it has been frustrating. How does a guy mentally try to push forward, when at times, it looks like there’s no light at the end of the tunnel?

Horcoff : It’s tough; I mean it’s really tough. You play this game in order to get into the playoffs first and foremost, because anyone who has ever been there before knows just how special it is- especially playing in Edmonton with our fans. I still vividly remember those game back in ‘06. I think it’s time that those fans- they’re so loyal, deserve another reason to cheer. Unfortunately I’m not going to be there to be a part of it but I am looking forward to starting something new.

Gregor : When you signed that big contract, did you put more pressure on yourself?

Horcoff: I think probably at first, ya for sure. I’m a proud guy and I want to go out there and earn it. As time wore on and as you get older, more mature, I can honestly say I put everything I could into that jersey for thirteen years. I came to the rink everyday and put all my effort I had to not just be the best player I could, but be the best person I could and really represent the Oilers the way that I felt that team should be represented. Do I have regrets? Absolutely. Would I have liked it to have gone better? For sure. But at the same time, I leave holding my head high.

Gregor: Some people think that no one wants to come to Edmonton because the fans are hard on guys. You took the brunt of it from fans on the internet and on radio. Did that impact you at all?

Horcoff : Not me. Listen, I’ve said it before, I have no problem with the fans being the way they were. I think it’s valid. It’s a blue collar town, they’re hard working people, they pay good money to come see the Oilers play and they have a right to say whatever they want. I don’t think it bothered me as much as people think it did just because I was aware of the fact and I was fine with it. I was fine with them saying things like that. I’ve been a fan once and I complained about players on the ice, so I get it. I really didn’t take it that personally, to tell you the truth.

Having said that, Edmonton is known for being tough on guys. It is known for that around the league, it is a hard place to play with the fans. You really have to have strong people to come in there. I’ve seen players and teammates that have come and gone, strictly because they couldn’t handle that pressure. I was always in the belief that you didn’t want those types of players anyway. You wanted really strong people, that when push comes to shove, they are the kind of guys you can lean on.

NEW CAPTAIN?

Gregor: With you leaving, there’s a vacancy for the Captain. There’s a lot of pressure that goes into being a Captain, maybe more than people realize. It’s not just wearing the “C” it’s trying to coordinate the locker room. Do you think one of the young guys is ready for that, or would you give it to a veteran like Ference, rather than put that much pressure on a twenty-one or twenty-two year old?

Horcoff : Well that’s not really my decision anymore, I don’t have a say in that.When  I left, MacT and I met for almost an hour and talked about almost every aspect of the team that you could possibly have. We went over that a little bit, but I don’t really know what they’re feeling. If they decide to go young, Nuge, Ebs, and Hallsy, all are different players and different people but they’d all be excellent candidates. If they decide to go older, it’s a personel decision. I think it really depends on what road the management wants to take and that will be up to the. Ultimately, I’m sure you guys will find by September, what the direction will be.

Gregor : You did have a No Movement Clause. When you heard ‘Dallas,’was it an easy one, or did you tell Craig MacTavish you were open to going anywhere?

Horcoff : No, with my contract I had some options. At one point I did submit a ten team list, more so because it was mandatory just because of the contract. As time wore on here, there were a couple different options that arose, that I won’t really get into. When I heard Dallas, and heard of the opportunity that I was going to have, it was a no-brainer for me. The good thing is, it was an easy decision for me and for my family. It was somewhere where we really wanted to go and it also worked out really well for the team. It was a win-win for both sides.

Gregor: Your new team added Horcoff, Peverly and Seguin all in a span of less than twenty-four hours. You win with strength down the middle, and on the blueline. What do you think of your new team?

Horcoff : I like how we look. First off, I’m comfortable there. I played for Lindy Ruff at the World Championships, Jim Nill was the General Manager and I know the owner. I know a lot of the players on the team. For me, it’s going to be as seamless as you can get. It’s going to be really comfortable for me to make the change. I look at the roster; I think the one thing that I’m confident in is that I believe in Jim Nill. I believe in his ability to put a winner together. I think he’s proven that he’s not afraid to make bold moves. I like the moves he’s made. The defence is strong and there’s some real talent up front. We’re going to be a real competitive team and I look forward to making the push for those playoffs, getting in, and trying to do some damage.

Gregor : You were a number one center in Edmonton for a long time, but you told me at the end of last year that you struggled accepting your role. At this stage of your career, do you see yourself going into Dallas as a number two guy, or more of a number three guy?

Horcoff : I don’t know. I’m going to go in and try to prove I can play. I still think I have lots of good hockey left in me. So I’m going to go in and fight. I think obviously looking at the center position; they want Tyler to fill that number one spot. It seems like they want Jamie to play the wing, so there are definitely open spots up the middle. I’m going in with the attitude that I’m really motivated this summer to go and prove I can still play some real good hockey. I’m not that old yet.

In Edmonton the last couple years they’ve given the younger guys the majority of the offensive minutes. Like I said, I was ok with that. I never complained once about the situation I was in. It’s just now I look forward to going in and trying to play and play myself into a situation where I can get more of those minutes.

Gregor : You’ve always been a guy who was in great shape. In today’s game, if you can’t skate and aren’t conditioned, you really don’t have a prayer to stay in the game. What about learning how to play competitively? You did that very well. Could you define playing hard and how you learned to do it at the NHL level, which is a lot different than doing it in college or junior?

Horcoff : Yeah, well it’s not that easy to learn. I think, for me, playing hard came natural. It’s kind of just a part of me. My Dad was always, from a young age, stressing the importance of playing on both sides of the puck and work ethic. Work ethic being the main focus.

I think too, once I got to University, my coach was always really stressful on playing both sides of the puck. I just always thought when I came to the NHL, the first couple years, when you’re a young player you kind of sit around and watch a little bit at times because you’re just kind of in awe of what’s going on out there.

But I always noticed how the best players in the game were always the guys you hated playing against because they were relentless, they never gave up, they were always on the puck. They hounded you; they were physical when they needed to be- not so much bone crushing hits they were just always there. They were always in your face and they always played hard, went to the hard areas.

I think as the game gets harder, and you get into the playoffs, one thing that has never changed is where the goals are scored. That is always in front of the net, in the tough areas. You’ve got to pay a price for success in this league and especially once the games become more important, that becomes even more prevalent. It’s definitely something you can learn from watching the people around you and watch how they play, but it has to be a personal decision to change your game or attitude of game to become successful in those areas.

Gregor : When you were a young guy coming out of college, you started on the fourth line and then eventually worked your way up to the first line. Did that make you a better player? Did it make you hungrier when you had to work for it?

Horcoff : Ya, I think so. I’m kind of an old school believer in that mentality. When I first came into the league, it was different. The CBA was different. You had to earn your right to play. The veterans were just kind of given their roles and as a young guy you had to come in and earn any offensive minutes that you got, or earn any power play minutes and you really earned your contracts.

You didn’t really make any big money until you were older. Now it’s a lot different. The CBA has changed and the younger players get big contracts kind of early, right out of their first deals. A lot of times, teams are forced to put these players into these situations to produce because of the amount of money that is given to them. A lot of times when that happens, you lose that- they don’t go through that step of having to fight for something.

With top players, they’ve just been so good at every level that they’ve never really had to fight for anything in their life. I’m not saying that happens to every player. I think Edmonton’s really fortunate with the guys that they’ve got there because these are guys who really care about the game. They put in the time; they do the work necessary to better themselves. You do see that in certain guys throughout the league at times.

NUMBER ONE CENTRE

Gregor : Give me your assessment of Ryan Nugent-Hopkins. He’s a very young guy who seems to have put an onus on the defensive side of the game. Are you impressed by how much he can do at both ends of the rink at his young age?

Horcoff : Ya, I am impressed. I really think he’s got potential to be just an outstanding hockey player. I really, really like Nuge’s game and the fact that he does play both side of the puck. He reminds me a little bit of Datsyuk, who is just so offensively gifted, but at the same time he’s just a dog to play against on the ice. Nuge has that ability. Obviously it’s going to take him a little time and he’s gotta get a little stronger. But he’s just so young that there’s really no ceiling for him. I definitely think he has the potential of being one of the better two-way forwards in the game.

Gregor : For most of your time in Edmonton the team either missed the playoffs or barely made it in. Then you come out of the lockout and there was that miracle run. How much did that year mean to your career, and did it make the past seven years even more disappointing because of that great run?

Horcoff : Personally, it was a pivotal time in my career. I was able to establish myself, I was able to play against some of the top players in the game and out-duel them in the important times, in important games. It really gave me a belief in my abilities. It was important for me, personally. I think even team-wise. That was kind of when you first started seeing the bottom teams, all you had to do was get into the playoffs, actually having a chance at winning.

When I first came into the league, there were powerhouses- Detroit, Dallas, Colorado, all in the west- it was almost impossible if you were the sixth, seventh, eighth seed to get by these teams. If you got by one, you had another one the next round because they were just stacked. Now you have a lot more parity in the league. Just by getting in, anyone has a good chance of winning the Cup.

Gregor : What do you think of the new Stars’ jersey?

Horcoff : I like them, I really like them. I went to school in Michigan State in college, so I’m fond of the green. I think it’s really cool and they seem to be getting some pretty good press about it too. I think a lot of other people like it.

Gregor : You’re a big sports fan, and I know you were always involved in golf and football pools. Have you ever been to a Dallas Cowboys game?

Horcoff : Well I haven’t, but I can’t wait. I’m a big NFL guy so it’s something that I’m really looking forward to.

Gregor : Who is your team?

Horcoff : I don’t really have a team. Honestly, I like the Lions, I always have, but I’ve kind of always been a Steelers fan. Those are probably the two teams I follow the most.

Gregor : Anything you would like to say to the Edmonton fans, after thirteen years with the Oilers?

Horcoff: I appreciate everything and I appreciate all the support they’ve given. I really believe that they are some of the best fans in the league. Like I said, I hope that the team does make it into the playoffs because they deserve something to cheer. They’ve been really good over the last little while.

RECENTLY BY JASON GREGOR

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One of Canada's most versatile sports personalities. Jason hosts The Jason Gregor Show, weekdays from 2 to 6 p.m., on TSN 1260, and he writes a column every Monday in the Edmonton Journal. You can follow him on Twitter at twitter.com/JasonGregor
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#51 Bushed
July 09 2013, 10:17AM
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Smokey wrote:

The Oilers should of been able to figure out that Horcoff was carried by Hemsky to those point totals. We all knew, how on earth could they not know?

Chris Kunitz was the third leading scorer in the NHL this year. He's being paid 4 million. The reality is he is not a superstar, hes good player playing on a stacked team. Contract reflects that. Horcoff should of made tops 4.

The only thing I will say in the Oilers defence was that they did not know how to pay such a players. Teams were all over in terms of contract values and terms.

^ This.

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#52 Bushed
July 09 2013, 10:20AM
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rickithebear wrote:

Oilers who were: 1. Captain of the team 2. lead the forwards in scoring to a cup final 3. NHL Allstar

Gretzky! Messier! Horcoff!

Nuf said!

The main reason Horc played in the all-star game was to take Hemsky's place; you know, the guy that actually earned it.

Rode Hemsky's coat-tails on that one, too.

'Nuf said...

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#53 mr common sense
July 09 2013, 10:23AM
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Rama Lama wrote:

Great read........I have always been critical of Horcoff, due to his general lack of hockey talent.

As a player I always appreciated his work ethic, and now we can clearly see that as a person he was special.

Wish him all the best!

agreed. useless player but good man, would make a great neighbor and camping buddy

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#54 Spydyr
July 09 2013, 10:33AM
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rickithebear wrote:

Oilers who were: 1. Captain of the team 2. lead the forwards in scoring to a cup final 3. NHL Allstar

Gretzky! Messier! Horcoff!

Nuf said!

Oilers who were: 1. Captain of the team 2. Lead the forwards in scoring to a CUP 3. NHL Allstar

Gretzky! Messier!

Nuf said!

One of them is not like the others.

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#55 bazmagoo
July 09 2013, 10:40AM
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I've been Horcoff's harshest critic but I've never been mad at the player for the contract, I've been made at the manager who offered the contract - Kevin Lowe.

Anyone who has been mad at the player for the contract is a fool.

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#57 Top Cheddar
July 09 2013, 10:47AM
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Regardless of all the negative attention, he was a good Oiler and hard working teammate; thanks for the great interview Jason. But if this deal shows us anything is how overvalued our key veterans are; contracts aside. MacT getting away from this contract is unreal. Receiving a live minor league body and what amounts to some hockey tape and a bag of pucks three years from now is very satisfactory. Horc will do well in Dallas.

On to Ales...would love to see what sort of team equipment we can get in return for him on the market while keeping at least half of his salary. I still think he's serviceable here but he'll need to remain healthy which is something he's never been able to do. Gregor, any thoughts on realistic deals/offers for Hemsky?

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#58 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
July 09 2013, 10:52AM
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Smokey wrote:

Too things. Never understood the notion that people have said the Horcoff contract did not hurt the Oilers. Yes it did. There arguement was based on not being a cap team. Frankly it did, we could of paid for other talent, plain and simple. I'm not saying we should of gone whale hunting, but I believe it limited talent coming here.

Secondly I always wondered what Horcoff's camp asked for if he got what 33 mil over 6 years. Did they start at 42 over 7. What on earth was Lowe thinking? So many bad contracts such as Staios, Pisani, Moreau, Horcoff and Lowe's inability to understand the marketplace hurt this team.

^^^This, all day long^^^

For what they bring to the table, the contract was one of Lowes many mistakes in the court of fan opinion. Gagner may soon be walking a few miles in those same boots. Players are brought into that dressing room based on their capabilities on the ice. Being a productive NHL player is afterall, a perishable skill.

Best wishes to the Horcoffs as they enter into the next chapter of their lives.

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#59 madjam
July 09 2013, 11:00AM
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Bushed wrote:

The main reason Horc played in the all-star game was to take Hemsky's place; you know, the guy that actually earned it.

Rode Hemsky's coat-tails on that one, too.

'Nuf said...

I think you might find over the years they complimented one another , and a case could be made Hemsky rode the coattails of Horcoff just as easily .If they both play elsewhere you might find out your summation flawed .

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#60 oliveoilers
July 09 2013, 11:08AM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

Thanks Botts,

I like interviewing players and the more comfortable they feel, the better the interview goes. Thanks for listening.

They desperately need a LW with some grit to his game, regardless of size. If rumours are true that Marchand is available I'd look at him.

Awww Jason, now you've gone and done it! Getting my hopes up with a little comment about Marchand casually thrown in! One of my favourite players of that type. Who else can agitate AND put up top 6 minutes AND has hands like that. Awesome power to weight ratio, like a Honey Badger. Only question his size, as we do need someone to look after the kids. That's why I'm a downer on Penner. Seeing him skate off with teammates in a scrum was not cool. Still, pursue all avenues, eh?

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#61 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
July 09 2013, 11:13AM
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So, should we stand and applaud, or just applaud after the video tribute his first trip back as a Star?

Pretty sure Seguin and Marchand were side by side party buddies. Many a picture tweeted of these two party brothers. Pass on Marchand for me. That dressing room would have to be expanded to make further room for Brads ego.

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#62 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
July 09 2013, 11:29AM
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@Clarko

Chiarellis actions/dealing Seguin, may say otherwise. Cell phone cameras have revealed players off ice conduct considerably, since the 80's.

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#63 2004Z06
July 09 2013, 11:29AM
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Smokey wrote:

The Oilers should of been able to figure out that Horcoff was carried by Hemsky to those point totals. We all knew, how on earth could they not know?

Chris Kunitz was the third leading scorer in the NHL this year. He's being paid 4 million. The reality is he is not a superstar, hes good player playing on a stacked team. Contract reflects that. Horcoff should of made tops 4.

The only thing I will say in the Oilers defence was that they did not know how to pay such a players. Teams were all over in terms of contract values and terms.

This year is not 2007. Have a look back at 2006-2007 salaries and compare to another forward with 80 pts. You are not making your comparison on a level field. We all know in todays NHL Horcoff would be a 4 mil/yr guy if he was in his prime today.

I am asking you to look at what the market was in 2006-2007.

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#64 Darrell
July 09 2013, 11:32AM
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On another topic - the more I read about Grabvoski, the more I like him as a 3/4 center man on the Oilers. He wants to suTOa so I see no better place to have a good year than here ? Have anyone heard interest from either party ?

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#65 oliveoilers
July 09 2013, 11:38AM
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Next up, is Connor McJesus. wrote:

So, should we stand and applaud, or just applaud after the video tribute his first trip back as a Star?

Pretty sure Seguin and Marchand were side by side party buddies. Many a picture tweeted of these two party brothers. Pass on Marchand for me. That dressing room would have to be expanded to make further room for Brads ego.

Well, the party dream team of Stoll and Torres did ok. Not to mention the boys on the bus. Carter and Richards? Different times I know, but it happens more than people realise. And he IS a considerable up-grade and a WOW factor signing. I would be concerned about getting Boston's reject parts though.

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#66 2004Z06
July 09 2013, 11:38AM
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My question now is who goes to the front of the net? Our top 6 are all perimeter players.

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#67 MrBacon
July 09 2013, 11:44AM
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Sy what you will but he's a class act. A lot of guys (Grabovski) would've taken this opportunity to slam the coaching and management.

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#68 50 in 39
July 09 2013, 11:53AM
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@Next up, is Connor McJesus.

While on the surface I tend to agree, I doubt LA regrets re-uniting party brothers Richards and Carter. If I were Holmgren, I would definitely be second guessing those two trades (even given the return was pretty good).

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#69 Clarko
July 09 2013, 11:54AM
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Next up, is Connor McJesus. wrote:

Chiarellis actions/dealing Seguin, may say otherwise. Cell phone cameras have revealed players off ice conduct considerably, since the 80's.

Again, I think most young players probably party when they are away from the rink. Ask the Sedins how much they would like to play against Marchand a few more times a year.

Marchand might have a big ego, but that is great for the role he plays. This team needs a pest that other teams absolutely hate. Nobody hates the Oilers right now because they are easy to play against. We need a couple of jerks on this team.

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#70 Clarko
July 09 2013, 11:55AM
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And also Marchand is a jerk who can actually play in your top 9...big difference from a 4th line scrub that a coach can't trust with more than 5 minutes a night.

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#71 madjam
July 09 2013, 12:04PM
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Sanaa Montana wrote:

Since you say it can easily be done, please-go ahed and make the case that Hemsky rode the tails of Horcoff. Please and Thank You.

Better yet , lets see you make a claim and explain it as you see it . Not worth my effort , is it worth yours ?

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#72 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
July 09 2013, 12:05PM
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@Clarko

You're right Clarko. Rule no.1. It's what the player can achieve on the ice that is the singlemost important factor.

Heck, we just want anyone with a pulse here to help fill out the roster. Marchand would have other options besides Edmonton I'm sure.

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#73 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
July 09 2013, 12:08PM
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@Spydyr

Lol. How many of the players were actually involved in that cruise, do you remember? There's obviously a need there if players are going out of their way to pursue it.

[edit]: wow, a third of the team, 17 players implicated. So it is established there is a need for a service such as this. By all means, get Marchand here now! There's is no Rave, like an NHL team sponsored Rave.

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#74 Taylor Gang
July 09 2013, 12:36PM
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In other news, Gagner may be heading to arbitration. Bold move: Gagner for Thornton straight up? Big size in the centre position, plus a surreal playmaker for Yakupov.

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#75 Walter Sobchak
July 09 2013, 12:43PM
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Taylor Gang wrote:

In other news, Gagner may be heading to arbitration. Bold move: Gagner for Thornton straight up? Big size in the centre position, plus a surreal playmaker for Yakupov.

I like it, think it could be done with a GM like Wilson, however, San Jose in the same conference and Thorton NMC tied in with zero term might be a problem on MacTavish side of things.

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#76 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
July 09 2013, 12:55PM
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Taylor Gang wrote:

In other news, Gagner may be heading to arbitration. Bold move: Gagner for Thornton straight up? Big size in the centre position, plus a surreal playmaker for Yakupov.

If they just keep differing on Gags. Do you think someone would send the Oilers a first second and third dp by signing him to an offer sheet. That would be best case scenario for me.

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#77 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
July 09 2013, 12:58PM
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OilersBrass wrote:

Cell phone cameras in the 80's????

Put your glasses on OB.

since the 80's.

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#78 Bushed
July 09 2013, 01:03PM
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madjam wrote:

I think you might find over the years they complimented one another , and a case could be made Hemsky rode the coattails of Horcoff just as easily .If they both play elsewhere you might find out your summation flawed .

If Hemmer rode Horc's coat-tails, as you suggest, why did all the all-star votes go to Hemsky and not Horcoff?

Guess all the all-star voters got it backwards, too, huh?

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#79 madjam
July 09 2013, 01:06PM
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Brad Hunt signed. Another collegiate defenceman , but 5Ft. 9In.. Apparently Lee Moffite not signed yet , we have only exclusive rights till Aug.15 .

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#80 Lochenzo
July 09 2013, 01:33PM
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Horcoff: Great gentleman and player. I'm proud to call him an Oiler.

I would use the Horcoff example to negotiate Sam Gagner's salary. You've been in front of the firing squad for a few years now. Do you really want to give the critics a $5 million dollar cannon? Let's keep it under that number...for your sake!

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#81 Bushed
July 09 2013, 01:40PM
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Next up, is Connor McJesus. wrote:

If they just keep differing on Gags. Do you think someone would send the Oilers a first second and third dp by signing him to an offer sheet. That would be best case scenario for me.

The picks would be nice, but we need some players for next season, too.

If the picks are easier to trade (now) for real NHL players and the return is higher than for Gags alone, then I'm OK with that.

If Gags is filing for arbitration, I wonder if it's to put the brakes on a trade, rather than the usual money/term items? Players can't be trading if there is a pending arbitration hearing, right?

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#82 madjam
July 09 2013, 01:40PM
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Bushed wrote:

If Hemmer rode Horc's coat-tails, as you suggest, why did all the all-star votes go to Hemsky and not Horcoff?

Guess all the all-star voters got it backwards, too, huh?

My argument was I did not believe Horcoff rode the tailcoat of Hemsky , which I still believe . Horcoff and Hemsky over the years here were goal to assists @ 1-2 most of the time. You could make a case that Smyth carried them both in their , in his/ their top years . Smyth was the better of all 3 in scoring goals most of the time . In team play and special teams both Smyth and Horcoff shone above Hemsky , and I doubt many if any would not agree to that . One must consider all aspects of the game and their contributions to argue Hemsky was better than either one overall . Satisfied ?

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#83 Smokey
July 09 2013, 01:42PM
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2004Z06 wrote:

This year is not 2007. Have a look back at 2006-2007 salaries and compare to another forward with 80 pts. You are not making your comparison on a level field. We all know in todays NHL Horcoff would be a 4 mil/yr guy if he was in his prime today.

I am asking you to look at what the market was in 2006-2007.

Your right. There was a 49 million dollar cap or something.

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#84 Smokey
July 09 2013, 01:57PM
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rubbertrout wrote:

I can't see the part in my comment where I suggested that the GM of the Oilers did a good job during that period of time. Probably because I didn't say that.

Lowe and Tambo made many many errors over the course of building this team. I've been exceptionally critical of both of them during my entire tenure as a commenter on this site.

I've never suggested that Horc wasn't overpaid. Overpaying Horcoff was one of the mistakes but not the only one.

Your point was that the team was unable to get the services of players because of Horc's contract. I asked for something to back that up and you can't show anything remotely coming close to this--not even a rumour.

You can't say to the contrary either. Its an opinion. I already infered I am not privy to the inner workings of the Oilers office and I'm sorry you need some factual evidence. We need Snowden to release some NSA/ CIA transcripts.

In all seriousness all I ever heard was that Horc contract did not inhibit the Oilers ability to get quality free agents because they were not against the cap. I questioned the validity. I'm wearing a tin foil hat mostly due to not having any trust in the management.

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#85 Smokey
July 09 2013, 02:17PM
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Jason, I'll be a big man an admit the possibility of being wrong. Horc's contract did not stop us from trying to sign the Hossa's.

Whale hunting doesn't work anyways.

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#86 EHH Team
July 09 2013, 02:24PM
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Smokey wrote:

Too things. Never understood the notion that people have said the Horcoff contract did not hurt the Oilers. Yes it did. There arguement was based on not being a cap team. Frankly it did, we could of paid for other talent, plain and simple. I'm not saying we should of gone whale hunting, but I believe it limited talent coming here.

Secondly I always wondered what Horcoff's camp asked for if he got what 33 mil over 6 years. Did they start at 42 over 7. What on earth was Lowe thinking? So many bad contracts such as Staios, Pisani, Moreau, Horcoff and Lowe's inability to understand the marketplace hurt this team.

Give it a rest. It's time to move on.

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#87 Mr common sense
July 09 2013, 02:35PM
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@EHH Team

Lol you guys are hilarious.

Hey did MacT hold a presser?

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#88 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
July 09 2013, 02:37PM
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Bushed wrote:

The picks would be nice, but we need some players for next season, too.

If the picks are easier to trade (now) for real NHL players and the return is higher than for Gags alone, then I'm OK with that.

If Gags is filing for arbitration, I wonder if it's to put the brakes on a trade, rather than the usual money/term items? Players can't be trading if there is a pending arbitration hearing, right?

Especially for teams looking to cut salary. I'm sure two firsts would fetch a handsome reward, let alone the couple seconds/thirds or versions thereof. There's more than one way to bring in what's needed. Let Sam sit, and hopefully find someone even more desperate as the Oilers are.

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#89 Bushed
July 09 2013, 02:37PM
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@madjam

I`m sure the all-star voters were looking at all aspects of the game and all contributions when they voted--that`s presumably how the all-stars are chosen.

Barring Hemsky`s injury at the time, Horcoff would never have played an all-star game.

In spite of that, if you want to believe Horcoff was better than Hemsky, go ahead--we`re all entitled to our own opinions. We`ll just agree to disagree on this one.

I liked Horcoff fine until the big overpay. Even he doesn`t come out and say he earned the money in the interview with Gregor; he says he tried his best in many ways to live up to it, which isn`t quite the same thing.

And the overpay doesn`t mean he didn`t continue to make contributions to the team--just that he was overpaid to do so.

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#90 Truth
July 09 2013, 02:53PM
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Prior to the arrival of the kids, Horcoff could have been replaced by a sheet of plywood on the PP. Hemsky would consistently put the puck on a platter to Horcoff for an easy tap in. No way Horcoff would have been in the All-star game if Hemsky was healthy.

Horcoff did have value in his defensive game, faceoffs, work ethic, and leadership, not to mention his involvement in the community. He should be remembered for that. I wish him all the best in Dallas and feel that it will be a win-win for both Horcoff and the Oilers.

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#91 Benny Botts
July 09 2013, 03:23PM
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Taylor Gang wrote:

In other news, Gagner may be heading to arbitration. Bold move: Gagner for Thornton straight up? Big size in the centre position, plus a surreal playmaker for Yakupov.

Really..? You would rather trade a player, although small, but plays a gritty game and can put up points, for a player who is 34 and on the wrong side of his career??

I do agree, I think they would be better off with a bigger number 2 center that brings the same things that gagner brings, but there are much better options in the trade market the Jumbo Joe. In my opinion you can package Sam up with something and get a great number 2 center at a good age.

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#92 2004Z06
July 09 2013, 03:51PM
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Smokey wrote:

Your right. There was a 49 million dollar cap or something.

All I am saying is his contract was comparable to other similar point producing players at the time. Not too mention the Oilers couldn't get anyone to sign here long term so yes they may have overpaid for a guy who wanted to be here to stay.

In any case, you have made your feelings well known. You didn't like Horcoff, his contract or Oilers management.....We get it, that horse is long dead, you can stop beating it now.

I am sure Clarkson will be in the same boat with Leafs fans in 2 years once he has outlived his usefullness.

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#93 Rusty Patenaude
July 09 2013, 03:59PM
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Just a note Jason. It is spelled "yeah" not "ya'. When you do that it makes me think of an Eastern European accent. YEAH MAN! YA COMRADE.

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#94 Sanaa Montana
July 09 2013, 04:16PM
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madjam wrote:

Better yet , lets see you make a claim and explain it as you see it . Not worth my effort , is it worth yours ?

So, now you are saying it is not easy and that it would be a lot of effort for you to do so?

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#95 Pucker - B class
July 09 2013, 04:27PM
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Rusty Patenaude wrote:

Just a note Jason. It is spelled "yeah" not "ya'. When you do that it makes me think of an Eastern European accent. YEAH MAN! YA COMRADE.

ya - I think you're right there.

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#96 WhattaMike
July 09 2013, 05:01PM
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Man O Man...some people out here just can't let Horcoff say a great goodbye to Edmonton in an interview and leave with class.

Also, his contract is gone and he is gone offically so leave the issue alone eh... Today is a new day with a changed team somewhat so far....focus on today....tomorrow...not yesterday.

The Oilers need to do the following, as most agree already...Get a top 2nd line LW and 2nd line centre.

These are to trade for and my bet is that the Oilers and Flyers do a BIGGIE!!! I think it will be a packaged defenceman and centre of...Coburn or L. Schenn with Couturier or B. Schenn...for the Oilers' 2014 or 15 first rounder, MPS, Smid or N. Schultz plus Marancin,...at the least... Never Know????

If Gagner don't sign now or soon he is definitely gonna be traded from now to within the year cause MacT ain't letting him go free agent style for nothing next yr.

Hemsky being traded brings in a third line tough winger...

BTW, I even could see possibly there being 3 other teams talking to the Oilers more so now for a trade potential...the NYI, Columbus, and maybe Nashville...

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#97 Sanaa Montana
July 09 2013, 05:24PM
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Jagr, Gordon, Hemsky; will be the best 3rd line in the NHL this upcoming season.

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#98 ceeraig
July 09 2013, 05:25PM
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Bushed wrote:

If Hemmer rode Horc's coat-tails, as you suggest, why did all the all-star votes go to Hemsky and not Horcoff?

Guess all the all-star voters got it backwards, too, huh?

Horcoff was an all star as well i remember very well. Mighta been backwards and hilarious but theres one coattails argument

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#99 fig pucker
July 09 2013, 05:33PM
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horcoff was a good player, he had character and was a good leader during a difficult period for the oilers (not an easy job). was his contract to big for his skillset, absolutly. that's not his fault though, managment gave him the contract under preasure from katz. horcoff only did what any sane person would (worth it or not), accept it. if his cap hit was 2 million how many of us would complain? i for one wish him the best, good luck horc.

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#100 madjam
July 09 2013, 05:53PM
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Taylor Gang wrote:

In other news, Gagner may be heading to arbitration. Bold move: Gagner for Thornton straight up? Big size in the centre position, plus a surreal playmaker for Yakupov.

Dream on . San Jose would never go for it . Besides , Gagner has only once in his 6 year career here had a positive +- .

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