TRADING MARINCIN

Lowetide
August 02 2013 07:36AM

 

Martin Marincin is developing as a very nice prospect for future NHL employment. His progress from junior to pro this past season had some bumpy moments, but by season's end he was well inside the top 4D at evens and a feature player for much of the year 5x4. Martin Marincin has a problem though: he's boxed in. Klefbom ahead of him, Nurse behind, and man there's not a lot of room.  

In junior, Marincin stories surrounded his height and lack of lower body strength, and the subpar team he played for in Prince George. Early in his first pro season, he caught an enormous break--being paired with Justin Schultz--and for a time the spotlight shone on Marincin in a big way:

  • Steve Tambellini in October: “His natural instincts for the game are very good … coming into the Saturday game, he was leading the American (Hockey) League in plus minus. That speaks to his hockey sense. When I look at Martin, I also see a strong ability to pass the puck. His body has to get stronger from a defensive standpoint. He’s a six-foot-four, six-foot-five kid, but is he is pretty lean (187 pounds). That said, when you watch him, he has an excellent stick for poke-checking.”

The Hockey News has an excellent scouting report on most of the NHL players and prospects we talk about, and I like their summary on Marincin (here).

  • The Hockey News: Is quite lanky, with a very projectable 6-5 frame. Boasts great puck-moving qualities and offensive acumen. Also displays plenty of shutdown upside. Doesn't play enough of a physical game, which he will have to improve upon in order to maximize his all-round potential at the National Hockey League level.

Marincin's size, skill set and youth (he's 21) make him an attractive option for any team, including the Oilers. In fact, if they could mail him back to 2008 chances are Marincin would have an exceptional future with the Oilers.

WE HAVE A PROBLEM

Marincin, 21 and a few defensive sorties from being ready for his first NHL game (which is followed by a longer period in the NHL and then finally arrival), is being passed by players procured after he was selected (2nd round, 2010). It's not his fault--Marincin is a terrific defensive prospect--but he's in a zone where he may be 'available' for trade.

When the Oilers took Marincin--Frank Musil pushed hard for his selection--the prospect depth chart was rail thin. Here's what the Oilers had bubbling under on the blue in 2010 summer: Jeff Petry, Theo Peckham, Marincin (just drafted), Alex Plante, Taylor Chorney, Johan Motin, Troy Hesketh and Kyle Bigos. 

Fast forward to the current prospect list, and it's truly insane:

  • Darnell Nurse
  • Oscar Klefbom
  • Martin Marincin
  • Martin Gernat
  • Dillon Simpson
  • David Musil

That's kind of my point, this list right here.  If the Edmonton Oilers begin the season and decide they badly need something, teams will be asking after someone on this list (it's the area of greatest strength for the Oilers, so MacT would probably be more open to a deal for a defender, too). 

One assumes Nurse and Klefbom are untouchable, but what about Marincin? Is he a lock for future employment or will the team move forward with a future top 4 of Nurse, Petry, Klefbom, J Schultz? 

WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?

The Oilers finally have a prospect depth chart on defense that is clearly going to produce legit big league talent. My question for you is this: WHERE is the line in the sand for untouchables? Before or after Martin Marincin? Because I'd bet money he's going to receive a lot of interest in the next 12 months, and you can't play everybody. 

(Marincin photos by Rob Ferguson, all rights reserved)

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Lowetide has been one of the Oilogosphere's shining lights for over a century. You can check him out here at OilersNation and at lowetide.ca. He is also the host of Lowdown with Lowetide weekday mornings 10-noon on TSN 1260.
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#1 cableguy - 2nd Tier Fan
August 02 2013, 08:15AM
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Woogie63 wrote:

Wow...it must be July.

Marincin has not played a game in the NHL and we are trading him, so we can protect two players that have not played a pro game in their life.

Truly we don't have a depth chart, we have six hopefuls, and about 5 very average NHL defenseman.

Lets not trade anyone until they have played 20-30 NHL games so we can see what we have got.

since it is actually August is it ok for us to discuss trading prospects again?

asking for a friend.

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#2 Matt Henderson
August 02 2013, 08:01AM
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I am not of the mind that Marincin HAS to be traded at all, but the truth is that any team who would be a willing trade partner with Edmonton HAS to be asking for this player.

He is the best prospect who isnt off limits. He has a lot of things that are desireable to other teams. Some draft pedigree, size, youth, and now pro experience.

When the Oilers upgrade their defense it may come from a (1 NHLer + 1 Prospect + 1 Pick) = Top Pairing Defender type equation. If that's the case then Marincin's name will be asked for to fill the Prospect spot.

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#3 MessyEH!
August 02 2013, 08:25AM
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Unless it's a proven top pairing dman, I wouldn't trade any of them.

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#4 I tried it at home
August 02 2013, 12:03PM
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Whre exactly does it say we cant hold onto prospects for a few years even if theyre apparently ready for the show? I keep hearing how that's how the Red Wings do it... maybe its worth trying

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#5 CaptainLander
August 02 2013, 09:19AM
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Draft develop, draft develop. Chicago's d core was all drafted and developed. Maybe Marincin plays 3 more seasons in the AHL before making the jump because is behind in the depth chart. Not a bad problem to have. I think this kid will be a good NHler. Just not yet. Trading 21 year players that have shown growth is silly.

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#6 They're $hittie
August 02 2013, 09:51AM
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No DSF comments since the trash button has been introduced?

Mission accomplished.

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#7 Smokey
August 02 2013, 08:02AM
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I've looked at Nurse, Klefbom, Marincin, Gernat as untouchables unless in a deal for a number 1 defender. When people "throw in" Gernat and Marincin into deals they want. Let all theses defenders develop slowly, and in 3 years we will have the best group of young defence in the league.

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#8 Citizen David
August 02 2013, 12:08PM
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I say keep him until we know what we've actually got in him, Klefbom, and Nurse.

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#9 Woogie63
August 02 2013, 08:12AM
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Wow...it must be July.

Marincin has not played a game in the NHL and we are trading him, so we can protect two players that have not played a pro game in their life.

Truly we don't have a depth chart, we have six hopefuls, and about 5 very average NHL defenseman.

Lets not trade anyone until they have played 20-30 NHL games so we can see what we have got.

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#10 HardBoiledOil
August 02 2013, 11:58AM
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no chance do i want Marincin dealt. if one of our prospect d-men have to go, i'd rather it be David Musil.

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#11 Silver Streak
August 02 2013, 09:35AM
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If we move Marincin it had better be for one hell of a big centre prospect....These big puck moveing D men are the fruit that we paid dearly for over the past 8 years...organizational depth takes time....do not trade them away now.

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#12 Mo Deet
August 02 2013, 10:19AM
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Things I don't see/hear anyone saying, so I'll see if it's worth anything:

The Oilers' current stock of blueline prospects could supply the bulk of the team's value contracts moving forward. Barring the one or two current blueliners the Oilers deem indispensable, Edmonton is in a position to slowly move out established D *at top dollar* and substitute young talent on entry level or lower earning contracts. Even assuming that half these D prospects are busts, and that others will flee due to lack of opportunity (real or perceived [e.g. Simpson]), there's still enough in the cupboard to maintain a steady influx of young, cap-friendly players. The longer development curve of defenders plays into it, and the acquisition of Nurse, IMO, secured this as a long term strategy option.

What you've also got, in Marincin/Gernat/Nurse/Klefbom, is a mad stable of tall, lanky, multi-tool defenders. Not one of those guys would I move. Remember the effectiveness of the reach of CFP, and how people would gripe that the league should crack down on stick length? Now imagine facing a blueline where it seems like every guy you skate against has that reach, and can follow you north-south east-west. THAT is what I think about when I hear Mac T talk gap control and 'mobility' on the blue. It would be a nightmare, and it would be wonderful. The fact that none of these D is heralded as a lights-out offensive talent is actually an advantage, as it helps you keep the cost of the whole more manageable. They'll chip in on the O here and there, no question, but it's not like anyone needs them to do any heavy lifting outside of puck recovery and possession.

Side Note: I'm curious to see the effect on development, if any, of having Gernat and Marincin as teammates. I hear tell that language was a real issue for Marincin when first landing in OKC, and now you have not only an AHL vet to Gernat's rook, you have a fellow countryman in to boot, so maybe that smooths things out a little. Maybe not. But I'm curious.

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#13 Spydyr
August 02 2013, 12:34PM
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August 9th marks the 25th anniversary of the saddest day in Oiler history.Anyone can be traded or sold.Anyone.

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#14 Sliderule
August 02 2013, 08:07AM
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Marincin is our most advanced defense prospect.He has played very well as a rookie in the AHL . Our next best prospect Klefbom has hardly played in the last two years. Our bright new prospect Nurse is skinny as a rail and is at least three years away from a sniff at NHL. So it is not logical that MacT will be suckered into trading our most NHL ready prospect for a Ben Eager clone that a lot of folks are salivating about. Right!

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#15 John Chambers
August 02 2013, 09:36AM
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@borisnikov

I agree about trading Gernat over Marincin b/c Gernat's offensive skill set is duplicated with Schultz and possibly Nurse.

6'5" defenders who are poised with the puck don't exactly grow on trees.

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#16 MessyEH!
August 02 2013, 08:38AM
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Lowetide why do you hate Martin Marincin?

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#17 15w40
August 02 2013, 08:28AM
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Couple things....

Distribution of resources and cheap labour.

For all of the top end forward picks the Oilers have had, their biggest need is still a centremen.

If one of the top end defensive guys can be dealt for a top end centremen with the attributes the team needs - then you do it.

The only exception to me as of right now is maybe Nurse because he seems to have a real mean streak and there isn't enough of that either on the roster. Klefbom is a smooth skating, good first pass defensemen by all reports - they have some of that now and a real hole up the middle.

The 2nd part is the cheap labour part.

Right now the Oilers are running with the big dogs in terms of payrole. Unfortunately, the success at winning is down with the "have-nots" in terms of financial resources. They have cast their lot with the guys they have with the big dollar contracts and obviously envision the internal maturity and growth just by getting more NHL experience causing the ship to turn around.

That said, the winning teams always get contributions from the guys making $2M and less to maybe tip the balance in their favour. Keeping guys like Marincin may be the key to that type of scenario.

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#18 OilClog
August 02 2013, 12:17PM
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Nurse, Klef.. untouchable

Marincin.. Almost untouchable.

The rest.. In play.

I wouldn't be moving Marincin anywhere unless the return is one of those returns where Oiler fans are always wondering how we could of pulled a trade off like that.

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#19 Big J
August 03 2013, 06:36AM
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@rickithebear

Just because you can post a comment doesn't mean you should.

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#20 Mark-LW
August 02 2013, 08:39AM
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I don't think trading him makes sense. Sure that is where we have prospect depth at the moment, but if you look at our NHL defense right now it suggests that we might want to hold on to those prospects.

In two years it's reasonable to expect N. Schultz gone, Belov gone, Grebeshkov gone and Larsen not panning out.

Then you're left with J. Schultz, Klefbom, Petry, Smid, Nurse, and Ference (who will be fighting for the 6 spot at that point). I would prefer to hold on to Marincin because having that size with the projected tools he carries filling in Ference's roster spot seems to round out an attractive D-lineup.

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#21 DSF
August 02 2013, 11:05AM
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They're $hittie wrote:

No DSF comments since the trash button has been introduced?

Mission accomplished.

Nope.

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#22 Spydyr
August 02 2013, 12:27PM
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Madjam would trade Marincin straight up for Weber.

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#23 GNikkles
August 03 2013, 12:27AM
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@rickithebear

Buddy... Get it together.

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#24 BigDawg
August 02 2013, 09:15AM
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So develop him then trade him???im not exactly sold on our D as it is.. so trading a Dman that we have been grooming for years seems counter productive... he cant play in Grebishkovs spot? in a year? Keep him.. unless there is a better d man coming back..

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#25 smiliegirl15
August 02 2013, 12:37PM
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and what about Taylor Fedun? Has he completely dropped off or did I miss something this past week or so?

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#26 Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach
August 02 2013, 12:29PM
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I'd trade any of our prospects for the right price.

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#27 godot10
August 02 2013, 09:53AM
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A team needs more than 4 defensmen. It needs six good ones at least.

Petry, JSchultz, Klefbom, and Nurse are not enough. More than enough room for Marincin.

Klefbom breaks in the 2nd half of this year. Marincin in the the 2nd half of the following year. Nurse, the year after that.

They don't even overlap. One can do one at a time.

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#28 borisnikov
August 02 2013, 10:22AM
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John Chambers wrote:

I agree about trading Gernat over Marincin b/c Gernat's offensive skill set is duplicated with Schultz and possibly Nurse.

6'5" defenders who are poised with the puck don't exactly grow on trees.

It is a nice problem for the Oilers to have. A surplus of defensive prospects who all appear to have somewhat rounded skill sets (give or take), size and mobility.

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#29 The Soup Fascist
August 02 2013, 10:31AM
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book¡e wrote:

Did anyone else try to work through the chess game to see if Black could force a stalemate?

Edit - Unless White is an idiot, Black is doomed.

Why are the checker pieces shaped all funny?

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#30 gcw_rocks
August 03 2013, 08:58AM
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A couple of reactions:

1) I think the Oilers need to see if Klefbom can stay healthy before they punt Marincin

2) I dream of the day the Oilers defence is so good a player of Marincin's skill is on the bottom pairing.

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#31 DSF
August 02 2013, 08:37PM
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Pajamah wrote:

DSF posts that L.A. and Kyle Clifford have a deal in place, citing a tweet.

TRASH COMMENT 67 TIMES!!!!

I'm all for trashing a comment if the you disagree with the content, but just because you don't like the guy? Really?

Forgive them for they know not what they do.

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#32 The Last Big Bear
August 02 2013, 12:07PM
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Marincin is a prospect, who may or may not make The Show, and will probably top out as a middle-pairing guy if all goes well.

He's the kind of prospect that virtually every NHL team has, and is probably the Oilers' 5th best defender aged 25 or under. He's also unlikely to overtake any of the guys above him.

So how does this warrant putting him on an 'untouchables' list? It's not as if 'depth defencemen' is an organizational weakness, and it's certainly not as if they're hard to come across (heck, the Oilers just added three middle-pairing guys this off season).

Marincin is a perfectly tradeable asset.

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#33 K_Mart
August 02 2013, 07:53AM
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No one is untouchable except Kevin Costner and Sean Connery. ... And Darnell Nurse. Klefbom can be dealt

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#34 TigerUnderGlass
August 02 2013, 03:55PM
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godot10 wrote:

Fact. The Oilers are currently basically at the cap.

Weber would put them way over the cap. So any trade for Weber, even if it is only Marincin, involves getting rid of a lot of other stuff at bargain prices.

Now, if you are another GM, and go way over the cap in the off-season, are you going to let MacT off the hook. You aren't going to be able to dump junk. GM's are going to be asking for 1st round draft picks to go with junk, or they are going to be asking for one of the fab 5 at a bargain price.

The Oilers cannot give Ales Hemsky away at the moment. If you go 10% over, which a Marincin for Weber trade would do at this moment, then MacT is basically dropping his pants, bending over, and ...

You cannot divorce cap considerations from trade considerations in actual reality, like you can in the blogosphere.

One cannot discuss a trade for Weber without discussing how to fit him under the cap.

Wait - you were serious?

That's even more hilarious.

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#35 westcoastoil
August 02 2013, 05:05PM
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There's a high probability that any return for Marincin in the next 2 years would be selling low.

Just for giggles why not hang on to our top 4 D prospects until someone decides to overpay us for a change.

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#36 Sliderule
August 02 2013, 09:02AM
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kelvjn wrote:

"...strong ability to pass the puck. His body has to get stronger from a defensive standpoint. He’s a six-foot-four, six-foot-five kid, but is he is pretty lean (187 pounds). That said, when you watch him, he has an excellent stick for poke-checking.”

So basically second coming of Poti?

The oilers website lists Marincin as 6 ft 5 and 196 lbs.

He is filling out and probably will be over 200 lbs this season.

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#37 TigerUnderGlass
August 02 2013, 04:03PM
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@Spydyr

He was rushed because he earned his job at camp. He just wasn't ready for it.

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#38 DSF
August 02 2013, 08:38PM
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justDOit wrote:

Does anyone know why the trash button is about 4 times larger than the props? And with text and an exclamation point to boot! The props button gets no benefit of literary devices like these.

The Trash Truck ® takes up that many pixels.

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#39 Hags9k
August 02 2013, 08:04AM
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Good post LT. My untouchable list would include only Nurse. If the club feels there isn't a big gap from Klefbom to Marincin, then maybe Klefbom is the trade piece. It all depends on the return but my line in the sand is Darnell.

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#40 WhattaMike
August 02 2013, 09:37AM
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The Oilers have done this wrong type thing before...trade a player/prospect before realizing/knowing his "Actual Full Skill level and value".... some examples are those such as Matt Greene, J. Stoll, K. Brodziak, Maltby, Cleary, Satan, Tobias Reider (recently), etc.

With this Blog Article in mind - LT - I would rather (very strongly.. BTW)keep the top 6 defence prospect kids for awhile longer and properly develop them (Fedun, Klefbom, Marancin, Gernat, Nurse, Musil) before issuing trade passes.

My biggest problem here is that...on many occasions...the so called Oilers' Pro-Scouts either suggest or push for trading our excellent prospects and draft picks for what????....has-beens?players with issues and no trade equal balanced skills?

We (the Oilers) have a surefire type top 6 offence now that is very young with such great future potential and now the defence end is starting to finally produce and catch up...and we are talking of letting a top 3/4 type kid go already?

If putting Marancin in a trade for one of a Weber, Suter, Petro-angelo, etc, type player, or for an established foward of the same high end proven calibre...then don't even go there.

Memo to the Oilers - To finally get one step forward with all the strong future young defence depth there now is after all these years and then to now be possibly looking at going three steps backwards again by trading one to two???....THIS IS NON-NEGOTIABLE...IMO

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#41 MessyEH!
August 02 2013, 10:01AM
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godot10 wrote:

A team needs more than 4 defensmen. It needs six good ones at least.

Petry, JSchultz, Klefbom, and Nurse are not enough. More than enough room for Marincin.

Klefbom breaks in the 2nd half of this year. Marincin in the the 2nd half of the following year. Nurse, the year after that.

They don't even overlap. One can do one at a time.

In fact, I hope they all push for NHL roster spots. That is what will make for internal competition. Competition in practice, in games, each pushing and challenging for roster spots. No more free rides.

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#42 TigerUnderGlass
August 02 2013, 02:54PM
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godot10 wrote:

Please list all the other players you would have to get rid of at bargain prices to fit Weber under the cap.

Winning in a hard cap system is all about value for money.

My favorite thing about this comment is the implication that you would not trade Marincin for Weber because of cap concerns.

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#43 Reg Dunlop
August 02 2013, 09:29PM
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DSF wrote:

Forgive them for they know not what they do.

Oh, I am confident that we all know what we're doing.

Also, Pouzar99 hit the nail on the head with comment 81. Realistically we should expect one of Klefbom, Nurse, Marincin, Gernat etal to pan out as hoped; two if we are fortunate. Don't go trading them until we know what we are getting rid of.

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#44 justDOit
August 02 2013, 09:32PM
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DSF wrote:

Forgive them for they know not what they do.

And they cast lots to divide his garments.

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#45 Tim in Kelowna
August 02 2013, 11:14PM
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Good piece LT, but can we go ahead and never use a Tambellini quote ever again. He is clearly the dumbest and most embarrassing GM the Oilers have ever had.

Your take on Marincin is something I had never considered but when you laid out the D prospect depth chart I was very encouraged. It seems that one of these Dmen would make a good piece in a trade to fill another hole in the big league roster (i.e. toughness, size).

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#46 madjam
August 02 2013, 08:17AM
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Let them keep developing in minors to replace the ones on parent club . We want depth , then we keep all of them until the age of 25-26 . If they haven't cracked parent club by then , then they go the way of Plante and Teubert ,Peckham , and others . Not sure about Simpson , and do not know if he would carry any value in a trade at this stage .

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#47 borisnikov
August 02 2013, 09:30AM
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The content for this piece can almost be applied directly to Gernat as well. The added problem he has is that the hill he's climbing is even steeper being a year younger and that he plays without the edge that Marincin has. I have a crazy idea about what to do with Gernat to help stifle the D logjam peaking over the horizon, if anyone cares to read.

http://hnrv.blogspot.ca/2013/07/conversion-factor.html

(Sorry for the shameless self promoting)

Edit: For the record I'm for keeping Marincin to see what the Oilers have in him. Only if there are dire needs on the big team that pop up quickly during the season do you entertain trading him. This is obviously a very real possibility though. Depth up front is still an issue.

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#48 John Chambers
August 02 2013, 09:33AM
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Craig1981 wrote:

A prospect is just that. Nurse and kelfbom could turn out to be busts. And his offense could turn out to be toop shelf.

Indeed. It makes sense to wait 24 months to make a trade in order to a) see what kind of players Klefbom, Nurse, Marincin, & Gernat turn into, and b) hopefully augment their trade value between now and then.

Marincin could turn into Roman Josi, and could be a very useful value contract while the big boys are getting paid.

That said, Marincin + N Schultz + a pick for Byfuglien or Enstrom puts this team into the playoffs.

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#49 vetinari
August 02 2013, 09:42AM
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If Marincin is the difference maker on whether a trade is done or not for a top 2 defenceman, a high quality centre or a legitimate power forward, then wish him well, package him up with some other players and send him off.

Otherwise, there is no rush to deal him-- let him develop in the AHL and give him a serious shot next fall or use him as a solid call-up option in the meantime. At some point, we are going to need some economical support players to help out the kids.

Frankly, I don't mind the idea of a blueline patrolled by both Nurse and Marincin (both over 6'4") in a few years. Now, if only Marincin would learn to play with a bit more of an edge to his game and punish forwards in front of the net, I would be ecstatic.

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#50 vetinari
August 02 2013, 10:06AM
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Oiltimer wrote:

I still like the idea of combining that stellar sport of wife carrying with cheese rolling.

A new Olympic challenge sport !!

I guess that's better than the sport of Cheese Carrying and Wife Rolling...

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