TRADING MARINCIN

Lowetide
August 02 2013 07:36AM

 

Martin Marincin is developing as a very nice prospect for future NHL employment. His progress from junior to pro this past season had some bumpy moments, but by season's end he was well inside the top 4D at evens and a feature player for much of the year 5x4. Martin Marincin has a problem though: he's boxed in. Klefbom ahead of him, Nurse behind, and man there's not a lot of room.  

In junior, Marincin stories surrounded his height and lack of lower body strength, and the subpar team he played for in Prince George. Early in his first pro season, he caught an enormous break--being paired with Justin Schultz--and for a time the spotlight shone on Marincin in a big way:

  • Steve Tambellini in October: “His natural instincts for the game are very good … coming into the Saturday game, he was leading the American (Hockey) League in plus minus. That speaks to his hockey sense. When I look at Martin, I also see a strong ability to pass the puck. His body has to get stronger from a defensive standpoint. He’s a six-foot-four, six-foot-five kid, but is he is pretty lean (187 pounds). That said, when you watch him, he has an excellent stick for poke-checking.”

The Hockey News has an excellent scouting report on most of the NHL players and prospects we talk about, and I like their summary on Marincin (here).

  • The Hockey News: Is quite lanky, with a very projectable 6-5 frame. Boasts great puck-moving qualities and offensive acumen. Also displays plenty of shutdown upside. Doesn't play enough of a physical game, which he will have to improve upon in order to maximize his all-round potential at the National Hockey League level.

Marincin's size, skill set and youth (he's 21) make him an attractive option for any team, including the Oilers. In fact, if they could mail him back to 2008 chances are Marincin would have an exceptional future with the Oilers.

WE HAVE A PROBLEM

Marincin, 21 and a few defensive sorties from being ready for his first NHL game (which is followed by a longer period in the NHL and then finally arrival), is being passed by players procured after he was selected (2nd round, 2010). It's not his fault--Marincin is a terrific defensive prospect--but he's in a zone where he may be 'available' for trade.

When the Oilers took Marincin--Frank Musil pushed hard for his selection--the prospect depth chart was rail thin. Here's what the Oilers had bubbling under on the blue in 2010 summer: Jeff Petry, Theo Peckham, Marincin (just drafted), Alex Plante, Taylor Chorney, Johan Motin, Troy Hesketh and Kyle Bigos. 

Fast forward to the current prospect list, and it's truly insane:

  • Darnell Nurse
  • Oscar Klefbom
  • Martin Marincin
  • Martin Gernat
  • Dillon Simpson
  • David Musil

That's kind of my point, this list right here.  If the Edmonton Oilers begin the season and decide they badly need something, teams will be asking after someone on this list (it's the area of greatest strength for the Oilers, so MacT would probably be more open to a deal for a defender, too). 

One assumes Nurse and Klefbom are untouchable, but what about Marincin? Is he a lock for future employment or will the team move forward with a future top 4 of Nurse, Petry, Klefbom, J Schultz? 

WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?

The Oilers finally have a prospect depth chart on defense that is clearly going to produce legit big league talent. My question for you is this: WHERE is the line in the sand for untouchables? Before or after Martin Marincin? Because I'd bet money he's going to receive a lot of interest in the next 12 months, and you can't play everybody. 

(Marincin photos by Rob Ferguson, all rights reserved)

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Lowetide has been one of the Oilogosphere's shining lights for over a century. You can check him out here at OilersNation and at lowetide.ca. He is also the host of Lowdown with Lowetide weekday mornings 10-noon on Team 1260.
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#101 Clyde Frog
August 02 2013, 10:15AM
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I would keep him, if we graduate him at 23 or 24 that is not an extreme delay.

The roster is ever shifting and if he steps up in the AHL he may give us no choice but to find room. If not who knows how injuries or trades will affect our line up in the next 3 seasons.

If certain current roster players regress, get injured or just plain don't pan out it would be nice to replace from within; as opposed to trying to "win" a trade.

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#102 Mo Deet
August 02 2013, 10:19AM
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Things I don't see/hear anyone saying, so I'll see if it's worth anything:

The Oilers' current stock of blueline prospects could supply the bulk of the team's value contracts moving forward. Barring the one or two current blueliners the Oilers deem indispensable, Edmonton is in a position to slowly move out established D *at top dollar* and substitute young talent on entry level or lower earning contracts. Even assuming that half these D prospects are busts, and that others will flee due to lack of opportunity (real or perceived [e.g. Simpson]), there's still enough in the cupboard to maintain a steady influx of young, cap-friendly players. The longer development curve of defenders plays into it, and the acquisition of Nurse, IMO, secured this as a long term strategy option.

What you've also got, in Marincin/Gernat/Nurse/Klefbom, is a mad stable of tall, lanky, multi-tool defenders. Not one of those guys would I move. Remember the effectiveness of the reach of CFP, and how people would gripe that the league should crack down on stick length? Now imagine facing a blueline where it seems like every guy you skate against has that reach, and can follow you north-south east-west. THAT is what I think about when I hear Mac T talk gap control and 'mobility' on the blue. It would be a nightmare, and it would be wonderful. The fact that none of these D is heralded as a lights-out offensive talent is actually an advantage, as it helps you keep the cost of the whole more manageable. They'll chip in on the O here and there, no question, but it's not like anyone needs them to do any heavy lifting outside of puck recovery and possession.

Side Note: I'm curious to see the effect on development, if any, of having Gernat and Marincin as teammates. I hear tell that language was a real issue for Marincin when first landing in OKC, and now you have not only an AHL vet to Gernat's rook, you have a fellow countryman in to boot, so maybe that smooths things out a little. Maybe not. But I'm curious.

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#103 borisnikov
August 02 2013, 10:22AM
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John Chambers wrote:

I agree about trading Gernat over Marincin b/c Gernat's offensive skill set is duplicated with Schultz and possibly Nurse.

6'5" defenders who are poised with the puck don't exactly grow on trees.

It is a nice problem for the Oilers to have. A surplus of defensive prospects who all appear to have somewhat rounded skill sets (give or take), size and mobility.

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#104 Mo Deet
August 02 2013, 10:35AM
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@The Soup Fascist

To my way of thinking, this is a perfect reason to keep both, and take the time to see what you really have in Gernat. There's room for growth all around. It might take longer in Gernat's case than in Marincins, but if it works out in the end who cares? There no room for Gernat the next two years anyhow. Three years from now? Bam.* Polished rookie, cheap cheap contract.

* best case scenario

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#105 MessyEH!
August 02 2013, 10:48AM
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cableguy - 2nd Tier Fan wrote:

since it is actually August is it ok for us to discuss trading prospects again?

asking for a friend.

Congratulations your comment has won... the internet.

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#106 Rama Lama
August 02 2013, 11:40AM
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So just when the guy seems to trending up and ready to make the leap to the NHL, we want to trade him??

It seems to me that all he is lacking is about 20lbs.......someone need to introduce him to mashed potatoes and voila we have a big defenseman. I for one do not want to start trading prospects unless we have written them off and this guy seems far from it. If you want to trade a prospect, trade someone who has no chance to crack the line-up ( Rajala) due to their size projections.

Keep the cupboards full!

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#107 Spydyr
August 02 2013, 12:34PM
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August 9th marks the 25th anniversary of the saddest day in Oiler history.Anyone can be traded or sold.Anyone.

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#108 westcoastoil
August 02 2013, 05:05PM
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There's a high probability that any return for Marincin in the next 2 years would be selling low.

Just for giggles why not hang on to our top 4 D prospects until someone decides to overpay us for a change.

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#109 justDOit
August 02 2013, 09:32PM
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DSF wrote:

Forgive them for they know not what they do.

And they cast lots to divide his garments.

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#110 Kevrock
August 02 2013, 10:07PM
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NO,NO,NO..This kid is a future Chara with more offence. You can't teach size, let him fill out and then earn his way up the depth chart but under no circumstance do you trade him. I don't care if a top pairing/first liner is offered this guy is legit just a question of how long it takes. For those that are laughing how many years did Chara take to become the beast he's credited as now!

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#111 Taylor Gang
August 03 2013, 07:54PM
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I am the Liquor wrote:

Where's the steaming pile of crap option?

Go home Lahey, you're drunk

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#112 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
August 03 2013, 11:37PM
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YFC Prez wrote:

Am I the only one who doesn't think Sean couturier is all that and a bag of chips? I don't know if I just haven't been watching enough but so far I don't really want him anywhere near an oilers jersey.

What's the appeal? Especially if you putting him in gagners spot?

Yeah....not sure how Couturier became so highly rated over the last few months....I mean the guy signed in Philly for 2 or 3 years for a buck 75...I mean how good is he if he signs for half of what Ottawa paid Kyle Turris?

I think Oilers fans may have got overhyped at the prospect of Holmgren and MacT talkin things over at the draft....

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#113 The Soup Fascist
August 02 2013, 11:48AM
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Mo Deet wrote:

To my way of thinking, this is a perfect reason to keep both, and take the time to see what you really have in Gernat. There's room for growth all around. It might take longer in Gernat's case than in Marincins, but if it works out in the end who cares? There no room for Gernat the next two years anyhow. Three years from now? Bam.* Polished rookie, cheap cheap contract.

* best case scenario

I agree it would be cool to have the Slovak version of the "Twin Towers" albeit a lot less physical than the original Beukeboom / Smith duo of the late 80's. although the fact they both are LH shots could be problematic.

If I had to pick one right now it is clearly Marincin. But Gernat has the tools. Maybe Todd Nelson will be successful in adding defensive zone play to Gernat's resume. The D to F conversion thing is interesting should Gernat not adapt to defense at the next level. The kid has a heavy shot and loves to score. As mentioned above, that would be out-of-the-box.

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#114 The Soup Fascist
August 02 2013, 11:48AM
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Mo Deet wrote:

To my way of thinking, this is a perfect reason to keep both, and take the time to see what you really have in Gernat. There's room for growth all around. It might take longer in Gernat's case than in Marincins, but if it works out in the end who cares? There no room for Gernat the next two years anyhow. Three years from now? Bam.* Polished rookie, cheap cheap contract.

* best case scenario

I agree it would be cool to have the Slovak version of the "Twin Towers" albeit a lot less physical than the original Beukeboom / Smith duo of the late 80's. although the fact they both are LH shots could be problematic.

If I had to pick one right now it is clearly Marincin. But Gernat has the tools. Maybe Todd Nelson will be successful in adding defensive zone play to Gernat's resume. The D to F conversion thing is interesting should Gernat not adapt to defense at the next level. The kid has a heavy shot and loves to score. As mentioned out-of-the-box.

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#115 Reg Dunlop
August 02 2013, 09:29PM
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DSF wrote:

Forgive them for they know not what they do.

Oh, I am confident that we all know what we're doing.

Also, Pouzar99 hit the nail on the head with comment 81. Realistically we should expect one of Klefbom, Nurse, Marincin, Gernat etal to pan out as hoped; two if we are fortunate. Don't go trading them until we know what we are getting rid of.

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#116 justDOit
August 02 2013, 10:07PM
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Citizen Alpha wrote:

It's a new and sponsored feature, so we wanted to give it some emphasis. The dimensions may change over time.

Thanks for the frank reply - and I swear that TD wasn't from me.

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#117 YFC Prez
August 02 2013, 10:51PM
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Am I the only one who doesn't think Sean couturier is all that and a bag of chips? I don't know if I just haven't been watching enough but so far I don't really want him anywhere near an oilers jersey.

What's the appeal? Especially if you putting him in gagners spot?

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#118 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
August 04 2013, 12:00AM
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I'm more than a little concerned about the Oilers inability to develop prospects......how many non-first round picks ....have the Oilers drafted and developed and are on the NHL roster??!?

Dubnyk, Petry,...(Lander sort of)....anyone else?

Or is their batting average the same as most other teams?

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#119 TV6
August 04 2013, 04:14AM
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Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty) wrote:

I'm more than a little concerned about the Oilers inability to develop prospects......how many non-first round picks ....have the Oilers drafted and developed and are on the NHL roster??!?

Dubnyk, Petry,...(Lander sort of)....anyone else?

Or is their batting average the same as most other teams?

FYI ➜ D.D. was a 1st round 14th over~all pick in 2004...

x6

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#120 EHH Team
August 04 2013, 11:26AM
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Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty) wrote:

Seems a bit strange that the props button has always been there...but now all of a sudden some comments are getting 15...25.. even...35 or more props....when prior to the change....9 or 10 props was a lot.......what changed?

I think what changed, is that now it works. Before, if I clicked the props button, nothing happened.

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#121 Milli
August 04 2013, 07:38PM
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No untouchables in the right deal, especially when talking about prospects. Hall, the only UNTOUCHABLE!

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#122 Mo Deet
August 02 2013, 06:58PM
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@The Last Big Bear

Sure, no one is untradeable, and Marincin may 'only' be a depth defenceman on a competitive NHL roster (if he makes the show at all). Two things though:

If he does make it, Marincin is a different type of depth defender than say Mark Fistric or Teddy Peckman, in that he projects as a guy who can take and make a pass.

In a cap world, there's value in having guys whose level of play falls within, but rarely above, their position in the lineup (and whose skill set fits team need/philosophy). Even with all the pieces in place, no one anymore can afford to be the Habs of old. Not for more than a season or two. Chicago's the closest we'll see, and they've been both smart and lucky.

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