Taylor Hall, Olympian

Jonathan Willis
August 28 2013 10:03AM

No less an authority than the TSN panel has predicted that the Edmonton Oilers best player, Taylor Hall, will be sitting at home watching the Olympic games rather than representing Canada in Sochi.

Here’s why they’re wrong.

TSN’s Roster

TSN’s left wing depth chart consists of Chris Kunitz, Rick Nash, converted centre Logan Couture, and Patrick Sharp. With all due respect to those four, there’s simply no way that Hall shouldn’t be part of that group.

The Competition

Chris Kunitz bafflingly gets the top left wing position on the team. The only possible defence of that ranking is that he has familiarity playing with Sidney Crosby, and it’s a terrible defence because presumably it isn’t difficult to look good playing on a line with the best player in the world. Kunitz has spent approximately 75% of his even-strength the last three years centered by either Sidney Crosby or Evgeni Malkin; Taylor Hall has done it with Ryan Nugent-Hopkins and Sam Gagner and Shawn Horcoff, players that aren’t exactly comparable. Despite being in the prime of his career and on a line with two of hockey’s five best players, somehow Kunitz has a worse point-per-game rate over the last three seasons than Hall, who was breaking into the league and playing in a tougher conference to boot. In three previous seasons Kunitz has hovered around a 60-point pace, so this last year was likely a one-off and if his scoring drops back to his established level nobody will be talking about him as an Olympian.

Rick Nash is likely a better choice for the top left wing position than Chris Kunitz. The 29 year-old is a veteran of international play, having represented Canada at two Olympic games, four World Championships and a World Junior tournament. Interestingly, like Kunitz, his points-per-game rate is actually less than Hall’s over the last three seasons, but he is more of a goal-scorer and arguably more of a complete player at this point in time.

Logan Couture, the converted centre, is another player who finds himself falling just short of Hall’s point-per-game pace over the last three seasons. He has an advantage in that he’s perceived as a better positional defender than Hall but a disadvantage in being a lesser skater and having less experience internationally (Couture has represented Canada only at the under-18’s back in 2006-07). Couture is an exceptional player – and a Corsi monster – but he both doesn’t tilt the ice the way Hall does in terms of out-shooting the opposition and he doesn’t come close to having the same level of offensive dynamism that Hall does. On a team loaded to the gills with converted centres, Couture’s positional strengths defensively shouldn’t trump Hall’s superior ability to drive results in his natural position.

Patrick Sharp should, barring a major drop-off, be on this team. A versatile skater who can play any position, he is both a dynamic offensive player and a skilled defensive forward. He’s coming off a tough year – he really struggled on a line with Dave Bolland for half the season, though he was fine with other centres – but he’s been excellent in the past and shouldn’t be a controversial choice.

Taylor Hall

Taylor Hall is coming off a remarkable season, even by Canadian Olympic team standards. No Canadian player in the lower-scoring Western Conference put up more points than Hall; in terms of even-strength scoring per hour only Jonathan Toews (3.19 PTS/60) had a better rate than Hall (3.15 PTS/60) in the West. Hall finished eighth overall in Relative Corsi league-wide last season and was 20th overall the year before that. In his first three seasons in the league, he’s clear of every Canadian left wing other than 41 year-old Ray Whitney in terms of points-per-game, despite the fact that he’s just started his career and has played for a pretty awful team.

Hall is a special player. He’s Canada’s best scoring left wing at the age of 21 despite playing in the West and there’s a pretty decent case that no other Canadian left wing drives out-shooting the way he does when he’s on the ice. He took a leap forward last year and was the best left wing in the NHL, despite Chris Kunitz's nod as first-team All-Star.

Hall will, barring injury, be a fixture on future Canadian Olympic teams but he’s good enough to play for them right now, and if he picks up where he left off the team’s management will have no choice but to include him.

Recently around the Nation Network

At Jets Nation, Kevin McCartney steps in from his vacation to imagine what the team's lines might look like if Mark Scheifele is ready to go at training camp:

Despite the many claims (even by me) that Jokinen and Schiefele will be auditioning for the same job of 2C, we can imagine this team organized in such a way as to reveal a hole at centre. Moving Tangradi outside the top-9, Frolik could take his LW role - if only the team had another centre. Does Eric O'Dell get a look for a soft-minutes assignment there? Is that Nic Petan's job down the line? What does the team do when Grabovski is a free agent again next year?

Click the link above to read more (includingthe lines Mccartney settled on), or check out some of my recent stuff:

74b7cedc5d8bfbe88cf071309e98d2c3
Jonathan Willis is Managing Editor of the Nation Network. He also currently writes for the Edmonton Journal's Cult of Hockey, Grantland, and Hockey Prospectus. His work has appeared at theScore, ESPN and Puck Daddy. He was previously founder and managing editor of Copper & Blue. Contact him at jonathan (dot) willis (at) live (dot) ca.
Avatar
#51 The Last Big Bear
August 28 2013, 02:30PM
Trash it!
3
trashes
+1
26
props

In the same way that chemistry between players in juniors rarely translates into chemistry at the NHL level, chemistry at the NHL doesn't seem to contribute much at the Olympics.

Witness Seabrook in 2010, who was half of the NHL's best pairing, but was clearly way over his head at the Olympics even when paired with Keith. As a result, he had the least ice time of any defenceman on TC (and not just a little, IIRC he had less than half the TOI of anyone else).

Which is to say there's no way in heck Kunitz should be on this team.

Especially not because "he has chemistry with Crosby", that's just retarded. A green rubbermaid garbage bin placed at the hashmarks (no doubt provided by CWD) would have great chemistry with Crosby.

Hall deserves a definite look at that spot, but so do a lot of transplanted centremen. I know he's a natural winger, but if that roster position comes down to something like Hall vs Giroux, it could be a tough call.

Avatar
#52 geoilersgist
August 28 2013, 02:33PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
+1
15
props

@jetsfan

Not to sure how Hall is over-rated but ok. I wish he and Eberle could be on the team but that's a pipe dream. If Hall doesn't make this team something is wrong. You claim Ladd is so much better but I'm not buying what your selling. What is their age difference and years in the league. Not many other players have ever torn it up the way Hall is at his age. Also HE is the best LW in Canada if not the NHL. That is something that can't be ignored.

Avatar
#53 Impartial Oilers Fan
August 28 2013, 02:37PM
Trash it!
16
trashes
+1
5
props

Why does no one bring up Taylor Halls UNSUSTAINABLE 94.3% IPP when talking about his PTS/G and how he did so well last year?? For a reference point, Hall had a 75.6% the year previously.

The best superstars in the league are around 80-85% on a consistent year to year basis, and yet Taylor Hall projections are being based on a lot of "lucky" points that he received.

Don't get me wrong, he's a tremendous player, but come on please, use a little perspective!! Making last season a baseline for projections and comparing to established players like Toews is absurd.

(Individual Points Percentage - The percentage of goals scored by players team while player is on the ice that the player had a point on.

Avatar
#54 Taylor Gang
August 28 2013, 02:48PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
+1
5
props

It doesn't matter if TSN doesn't think Hall will make it. If he truly is as good as we say he is (which he is) then he will bully his way onto the team. He'll make it no doubt.

Avatar
#55 Taylor Gang
August 28 2013, 02:51PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
13
props

The only thing that stops him from being noticed is the fact that the Oilers stink. Once the Islanders made the playoffs Tavares was being heralded as a top 5 player in the NHL for crying out loud!

Avatar
#56 Rob...
August 28 2013, 02:56PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
15
props

I think this is the best thing that could have happened to Hall. You thought he was an intense, beast of a player before? Brace yourself for a dude who will do everything in his power to prove to the decision makers that they need him on their Olympic team. The Oilers benefit big time from Hall not being a lock for the team.

Avatar
#57 Wäx Män Riley
August 28 2013, 03:36PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
+1
14
props
The Last Big Bear wrote:

In the same way that chemistry between players in juniors rarely translates into chemistry at the NHL level, chemistry at the NHL doesn't seem to contribute much at the Olympics.

Witness Seabrook in 2010, who was half of the NHL's best pairing, but was clearly way over his head at the Olympics even when paired with Keith. As a result, he had the least ice time of any defenceman on TC (and not just a little, IIRC he had less than half the TOI of anyone else).

Which is to say there's no way in heck Kunitz should be on this team.

Especially not because "he has chemistry with Crosby", that's just retarded. A green rubbermaid garbage bin placed at the hashmarks (no doubt provided by CWD) would have great chemistry with Crosby.

Hall deserves a definite look at that spot, but so do a lot of transplanted centremen. I know he's a natural winger, but if that roster position comes down to something like Hall vs Giroux, it could be a tough call.

You know, for a Flames fan you're alright!

Avatar
#58 Smokey
August 28 2013, 03:39PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
+1
7
props

Leaving the second best left winger in the NHL off the team is something only Canada would do. Its like leaving the NHL's best goal scorer in Stamkos off in 10' albeit it did not matter are decisions you hope you don't pay for. Granted that was Stevie Y. I'm tired off the World Jr's. constantly not taking their best players because there 17, and then paying the price.

Hall should be just outside a lock. He should have to prove himself, but he has an element that you need which is flat out speed. Frankly a line of Hall, Tavares, Eberle would be decent but won't happen. Put Hall in TO, are we even debating this? Hall is easily without debate or question Canada's best dynamic left winger. On pace for 90 points of all things. Top ten scorer in the league. Second best 5x5 player that drives possession. Two time Memorial Cup MVP. WTH

Kunitz was invited cause he plays with Crosby, Couture is a center, and you don't need Sharpe.

Avatar
#59 Dan 1919
August 28 2013, 04:01PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
+1
10
props

@Smokey

That's exactly why TSN panelists are panelists.

If Hockey Canada learnt their lesson from Turin 2006's Gretzky & Friends Team like they said they did, Hall will be one of the first 6 forwards picked no doubt about it (assuming he plays as well this season as last).

Avatar
#60 Rheal1
August 28 2013, 04:24PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
+1
13
props

Kunitz will be a liability. Ever saw his stats while he was a Duck? Pffeeewww... The Toronto Sports Network (TSN) are like dinosaurs. Rick Nash should be the 3rd LW, Kunitz should not even be on the roster. Hall a definite 1st LW. WTF gives, TSN? I'm not an oil fan; I'm a Habs fan. If Hall is not on this team, look for bronze at best Yzerman & coy go with it...

Avatar
#61 cableguy - 2nd Tier Fan
August 28 2013, 04:52PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
+1
6
props
Impartial Oilers Fan wrote:

Why does no one bring up Taylor Halls UNSUSTAINABLE 94.3% IPP when talking about his PTS/G and how he did so well last year?? For a reference point, Hall had a 75.6% the year previously.

The best superstars in the league are around 80-85% on a consistent year to year basis, and yet Taylor Hall projections are being based on a lot of "lucky" points that he received.

Don't get me wrong, he's a tremendous player, but come on please, use a little perspective!! Making last season a baseline for projections and comparing to established players like Toews is absurd.

(Individual Points Percentage - The percentage of goals scored by players team while player is on the ice that the player had a point on.

not sure. post the exact same thing in another 7 comment sections and see what you come up with. posting it in 4 or 5 hasn't been successful for you yet.

Avatar
#62 Oiler Al
August 28 2013, 04:54PM
Trash it!
4
trashes
+1
6
props
jetsfan wrote:

There's no bragging.. That was as a response to an Oiler fan (past four seasons placing 30th, 30th, 29th, 24th) referring to other teams as lowly.

Ya, but you forgot to mention that the Jets have the ugliest uniforms in NHL.! Hope no war breaksout, as they would have to turn the jerseys into Arms Canada.

Great Fans in Wpg, but the city is a snore.

Avatar
#63 OutDoorRink
August 28 2013, 05:13PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
+1
2
props

If Taylor can maintain his current level of defensive attention and play to his strengths he's going to Sochi.

His speed should be the clarion call for Stevie Y. We've seen what he can do on the Oly-sized rink before but that was when he was a boy.

Avatar
#64 Serious Gord
August 28 2013, 05:14PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
2
props

Is TSN picking based on what they think is the correct group OR the group that they think HC will pick? Big difference.

If its the latter then they may be right. I have not been a big fan of how the cloistered and cliquey HC committee has been in the past and I suspect that they could very well not pick TH to join the club.

TH is going to have to prove them wrong by scorching up the place from now until New Years and shame the ba$tards into picking him.

Avatar
#65 Will
August 28 2013, 05:14PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
6
props

This is another example of advance stats making an argument that shouldn't be there. Kunitz was the highest point producing LW in the NHL last year. The fact he has chemistry with Crosby combined with his point production is why he was listed at first line centre.

Having said that I think Zack Stortini could be the best Candian LW on a line with Crosby, but that doesn't change the fact that the he would still be the highest point producing LW in Canada.

Having said all of that, I still think Hall is the best Canadian LW, especially for the big ice. His speed is way more explosive than any other candidate, and that will show when it comes time to make the selection.

If / When Hall makes the team, I don't see him on the top line. I want to see him on a line with Giroux and Tavares. Or, if Crosby and Stamkos don't have chemistry, imagine a Hall, Stamkos.... anyone else line? That would be incredible.

Avatar
#66 Harlie
August 28 2013, 05:35PM
Trash it!
12
trashes
+1
3
props

I love Hall but I think Eberle will be the one going.

Avatar
#67 Rocket
August 28 2013, 05:46PM
Trash it!
3
trashes
+1
19
props

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if TSN picks Ben Affleck & Miley Cyrus to make the Olympic team instead of an Oilers player.

Avatar
#68 Spydyr
August 28 2013, 06:07PM
Trash it!
2
trashes
+1
5
props

Anyone with eyes know what Hall brings offensively.What will keep him off the team is his age,his play away from the puck,his play at both blue lines,and his defensive play.

Hopefully for the Oilers sake he will improve these things.I believe he will he is too competitive to driven not too.

If he does become a 200 foot player, again I would not bet against him.He will be on the Olympic team for at least the next two games ,after this one.

Avatar
#69 justDOit
August 28 2013, 06:12PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
+1
0
props

@Spydyr

But they're saying this might likely be the last Olympics with NHL participation.

I agree with you though - I don't see Hall being selected after what happened at the worlds last spring. Unless he goes supernova.

Avatar
#70 Spydyr
August 28 2013, 06:16PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
+1
4
props

@justDOit

Don't they say this is the last Olympics for the NHL every Olympics.Could be just a bargaining tool,No?

Man,Sure hope he does go supernova.

Avatar
#71 OilClog
August 28 2013, 07:13PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
4
props

Hall is the best Canadian Left Wing in the league, he will be on the team. "Vicious" will take people out back if he has too..

Avatar
#72 DSF
August 28 2013, 08:35PM
Trash it!
30
trashes
+1
3
props

The team Canada brass made it pretty clear what they are looking for...scoring and a 200 foot game.

That would best be expressed by +- ON/60.

Here are the numbers for the LW camp invitees and those TSN has pegged to make the team:

Chris Kunitz - +2.93

Rick Nash - +1.65

Andrew Ladd - +0.91

Patrick Sharp - +0.91

Milan Lucic - +0.89

Logan Couture - +0.84

Taylor Hall - +0.45

As you can see, Hall isn't really in the conversation.

Avatar
#73 Racki
August 28 2013, 08:52PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
+1
12
props

One stat (especially one that is highly influenced by teammates) should not make or break a player.

Please try again.

Avatar
#74 DSF
August 28 2013, 09:16PM
Trash it!
20
trashes
+1
3
props
Racki wrote:

One stat (especially one that is highly influenced by teammates) should not make or break a player.

Please try again.

All players on all teams in hockey are "influenced by teammates".

Are you suggesting that Hopkins, Eberle, Dubnyk and the Oiler D are all stiffs that Hall has to rise above?

I would argue Andrew Ladd plays for a worse team but manages to outperform Hall significantly.

Good management would also look at how players perform at even strength. (and Hall would likely get very little PP time on the Olympic team.)

Using those same players, here are the 5V5 goal scoring numbers:

Nash - 17

Ladd - 15

Couture - 14

Kunitz - 13

Hall -12

Lucic - 7

Sharp - 5 (only played 28 games)

Appears to me that the selection committee has this about right.

Avatar
#75 Racki
August 28 2013, 09:27PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
11
props

@DSF

I just personally thought your singling out one stat and talking matter-of-factly like it proved Hall couldn't hold a candle to the other names was an incredibly weak argument. Why don't you go dig up Jarome Iginla's +/- ON/60 back in 2010.. I seem to recall no regrets with the Canadian team selecting him.

Avatar
#76 DSF
August 28 2013, 09:33PM
Trash it!
20
trashes
+1
1
props
Racki wrote:

I just personally thought your singling out one stat and talking matter-of-factly like it proved Hall couldn't hold a candle to the other names was an incredibly weak argument. Why don't you go dig up Jarome Iginla's +/- ON/60 back in 2010.. I seem to recall no regrets with the Canadian team selecting him.

I didn't realize Iginla was under consideration.

Any other straw men you want to present?

Avatar
#77 jetsfan
August 28 2013, 09:35PM
Trash it!
5
trashes
+1
1
props
DSF wrote:

All players on all teams in hockey are "influenced by teammates".

Are you suggesting that Hopkins, Eberle, Dubnyk and the Oiler D are all stiffs that Hall has to rise above?

I would argue Andrew Ladd plays for a worse team but manages to outperform Hall significantly.

Good management would also look at how players perform at even strength. (and Hall would likely get very little PP time on the Olympic team.)

Using those same players, here are the 5V5 goal scoring numbers:

Nash - 17

Ladd - 15

Couture - 14

Kunitz - 13

Hall -12

Lucic - 7

Sharp - 5 (only played 28 games)

Appears to me that the selection committee has this about right.

I was with you up until this point

"Andrew Ladd plays for a worse team"

Clearly you only watch Canuck and Oil games otherwise you'd know that not to be true.

Avatar
#78 TigerUnderGlass
August 28 2013, 10:17PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
19
props
DSF wrote:

I didn't realize Iginla was under consideration.

Any other straw men you want to present?

Did the guy who just presented =/-ON/60 as the definitive metric declaring Taylor Hall unfit for the Olympic team just accuse somebody of erecting straw men?

Avatar
#79 Racki
August 28 2013, 10:35PM
Trash it!
2
trashes
+1
13
props
DSF wrote:

I didn't realize Iginla was under consideration.

Any other straw men you want to present?

I have no problems with you or anyone doubting that Hall is a good candidate for the Olympic team.. I personally am unsure he'll make it on to the team (solely based on the fact that Canada has a lot of solid players to choose from). If your argument was that he was too green to the NHL to make the Canadian team, I would have accepted that, however your argument was basically "Taylor Hall has a less awesome +/- than the other guys so he won't make the team, book it".

Provide a paper thin argument, and people will call you on it. Looking at +/- ON/60 is a huge waste of time.

Avatar
#80 Dangilitis
August 28 2013, 10:43PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
+1
13
props
DSF wrote:

The team Canada brass made it pretty clear what they are looking for...scoring and a 200 foot game.

That would best be expressed by +- ON/60.

Here are the numbers for the LW camp invitees and those TSN has pegged to make the team:

Chris Kunitz - +2.93

Rick Nash - +1.65

Andrew Ladd - +0.91

Patrick Sharp - +0.91

Milan Lucic - +0.89

Logan Couture - +0.84

Taylor Hall - +0.45

As you can see, Hall isn't really in the conversation.

So I suppose Hall, like Gagner, is "mediocre", too? Moron...

Avatar
#81 dougtheslug
August 28 2013, 11:09PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
9
props
DSF wrote:

The team Canada brass made it pretty clear what they are looking for...scoring and a 200 foot game.

That would best be expressed by +- ON/60.

Here are the numbers for the LW camp invitees and those TSN has pegged to make the team:

Chris Kunitz - +2.93

Rick Nash - +1.65

Andrew Ladd - +0.91

Patrick Sharp - +0.91

Milan Lucic - +0.89

Logan Couture - +0.84

Taylor Hall - +0.45

As you can see, Hall isn't really in the conversation.

I wonder what Taylor Hall's +-ON/60 would have been if he had played a season with Sidney Crosby as his center?

Avatar
#82 OilFanInVan
August 28 2013, 11:38PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
4
props

Team Canada has a hard decision to make regarding many players, including Hall. And they probably won't get everything right... (Still remembering Ray Borque in the shootout..........)

Avatar
#83 Harry
August 28 2013, 11:39PM
Trash it!
3
trashes
+1
8
props
dougtheslug wrote:

I wonder what Taylor Hall's +-ON/60 would have been if he had played a season with Sidney Crosby as his center?

Classic stat geek in DSF. This guy prove ho little he knoes about hockey day after day. Kunitz over Hall is rediculous.

Avatar
#84 oilerman53
August 29 2013, 01:44AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
3
props

Hall was the best Canadian player in the West last year. On some nights this dude absolutely dominated the competition, one glaring hole I see with these Team Canada predictions is always at forward. Who here would like to see a line of three centers or three left wings and so on so forth?

TSN has always had a major hate on for the Oil, clearly as healthy as DSF's. Even if the Oilers don't send one player for Canada or any other team I'm not complaining hard. Sochi is at least a ten hour flight, and the boys will be bagged when they return. The talking heads need something to talk about now, rather then picking natural positions they went for star power. Hall could easily burn any of these players on the ice, first and foremost on his to do list is to lead our team to the playoffs.

Avatar
#85 MOOG35
August 29 2013, 02:49AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
14
props

When it comes to Kunitz vs. Hall, it's as simple as this. If MacT phoned Ray Shero tomorrow and offered Hall straight up for Kunitz in a trade, what do you think Shero would say?

Avatar
#86 Serious Gord
August 29 2013, 04:47AM
Trash it!
3
trashes
+1
5
props
dougtheslug wrote:

I wonder what Taylor Hall's +-ON/60 would have been if he had played a season with Sidney Crosby as his center?

DSFs point is valid - if a bit overstated. TH has some weakness in his two way play. We have all seen it. The stats cited indicate it.

There is no denying at this point that TH has yet to demonstrate that he is capable of it.

But he has his instructions from Crawford and yzerman on what they need to see and TH has 25 - 30 games to demonstrate that he is able to add that dimension.

If he does then he's going to Russia.

Avatar
#87 Harry
August 29 2013, 07:18AM
Trash it!
2
trashes
+1
5
props
DSF wrote:

I didn't realize Iginla was under consideration.

Any other straw men you want to present?

Thats all this moron does is pick stats cause he clearly knows "F" all about hockey. Im sure if it were up to him Burrows would be first line center

Avatar
#88 madjam
August 29 2013, 08:12AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
3
props

Stats can be misleading many a time . Although most are individual stats , most sre the result of team play and system players are playing under . If team play is weak , coaching erratic , and weak support to boot , then stats can be ballooned higher than they should under normal circumstances . Such seems to be the case in defensive stats for a lot of Oiler players . Players doing what they are told , but system and lack of support letting them down .

Avatar
#89 Clyde Frog
August 29 2013, 08:16AM
Trash it!
3
trashes
+1
20
props

@DSF

Letting out a sob of relief DSF took a moment to quietly reflect on his absolute victory!

The last 12 hours of Googling had worked, he finally had definitive proof that Taylor Hall is a Canadian bust! It had taken a lot of work to look past and ignore all the other "stats" his "fans" kept bringing out... Such as points and a full suite of other advanced stats; but he had done it!

Finally he had a stat that proved what he knew deep down in his heart, Taylor Hall just isn't any good.

Hitting refresh 17 more times, he contentedly waits for his new internet worshipers to heap praise and other accolades on his mighty shoulders.

His eyes light up with a mad gleam, "What!?!" he bellows... Someone has dared to look at how his mighty stat factored into the past!? This will not stand!

Writing out his well thought out response he clicks the post button and trundles off to his secret thoughts journal, where he promptly places a single bold line through the name Racki; forever removing him from friend contention... That is if he ever sees the need to leave the mighty bachelor pad he has built that is his mother's basement.

Cracking a new can of Dr.Pepper he savors the sweet aroma and contentedly starts planning out the parade Oilers Nation will throw him once they come to recognize his utter genius in all things Hockey.

Avatar
#90 Romulus' Apotheosis
August 29 2013, 09:59AM
Trash it!
1
trashes
+1
5
props
Serious Gord wrote:

DSFs point is valid - if a bit overstated. TH has some weakness in his two way play. We have all seen it. The stats cited indicate it.

There is no denying at this point that TH has yet to demonstrate that he is capable of it.

But he has his instructions from Crawford and yzerman on what they need to see and TH has 25 - 30 games to demonstrate that he is able to add that dimension.

If he does then he's going to Russia.

You have no clue what you are talking about.

TH is one of the best two-way players in the game. He destroys his competition and pushes the river. All relevant stats are beyond clear on this. Beyond clear.

Any one doubting this is buying into bias and bs narratives about "chemistry" "playoff faceoffs" etc.

garbage.

Avatar
#91 Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things
August 29 2013, 10:08AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
5
props
Clyde Frog wrote:

Letting out a sob of relief DSF took a moment to quietly reflect on his absolute victory!

The last 12 hours of Googling had worked, he finally had definitive proof that Taylor Hall is a Canadian bust! It had taken a lot of work to look past and ignore all the other "stats" his "fans" kept bringing out... Such as points and a full suite of other advanced stats; but he had done it!

Finally he had a stat that proved what he knew deep down in his heart, Taylor Hall just isn't any good.

Hitting refresh 17 more times, he contentedly waits for his new internet worshipers to heap praise and other accolades on his mighty shoulders.

His eyes light up with a mad gleam, "What!?!" he bellows... Someone has dared to look at how his mighty stat factored into the past!? This will not stand!

Writing out his well thought out response he clicks the post button and trundles off to his secret thoughts journal, where he promptly places a single bold line through the name Racki; forever removing him from friend contention... That is if he ever sees the need to leave the mighty bachelor pad he has built that is his mother's basement.

Cracking a new can of Dr.Pepper he savors the sweet aroma and contentedly starts planning out the parade Oilers Nation will throw him once they come to recognize his utter genius in all things Hockey.

I'm really glad you brought this back, Clyde Frog.

Avatar
#93 DSF
August 29 2013, 10:28AM
Trash it!
10
trashes
+1
0
props
Romulus' Apotheosis wrote:

You have no clue what you are talking about.

TH is one of the best two-way players in the game. He destroys his competition and pushes the river. All relevant stats are beyond clear on this. Beyond clear.

Any one doubting this is buying into bias and bs narratives about "chemistry" "playoff faceoffs" etc.

garbage.

"All relevant stats"?

Which ones?

Let's start with CorsiOn.

Taylor Hall - +2.79.

183rd in the league.

124th among forwards.

31st among left wingers.

How about CorsiRel QofC?

Taylor Hall - .585

185th in the league

124th among forwards

36th among left wingers.

There's no doubt Hall can score...his P/60 5V5 is 6th best among forwards in the league behind Crosby, Staal, Kadri (hmmm), Kunitz, and Toews.

But I'm curious what "relevant stats" you are using to support your narrative that Hall is one of the best two way players in the game?

Avatar
#94 Romulus' Apotheosis
August 29 2013, 10:50AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
4
props
DSF wrote:

"All relevant stats"?

Which ones?

Let's start with CorsiOn.

Taylor Hall - +2.79.

183rd in the league.

124th among forwards.

31st among left wingers.

How about CorsiRel QofC?

Taylor Hall - .585

185th in the league

124th among forwards

36th among left wingers.

There's no doubt Hall can score...his P/60 5V5 is 6th best among forwards in the league behind Crosby, Staal, Kadri (hmmm), Kunitz, and Toews.

But I'm curious what "relevant stats" you are using to support your narrative that Hall is one of the best two way players in the game?

Hilarious that you know nothing about a stat you disdain only to trot out when it "appears" convenient to a trifling non-argument.

Enjoy thinking Hall isn't amazing!

Avatar
#95 DSF
August 29 2013, 10:57AM
Trash it!
9
trashes
+1
0
props
Jonathan Willis wrote:

Oh, gosh. How could I forget +/-ON/60, the only stat that matters!

I guess it was premature to establish Shea Weber and Drew Doughty as locks; as you can see, they aren't really even in the conversation:

Jake Muzzin: +1.50

Subban: +1.49

Letang: +1.33

Keith: +1.13

Garrison: +1.10

Seabrook: +0.85

Staal: +0.58

Boyle: +0.53

Hamhuis: +0.45

Pietrangelo: +0.07

Weber: -0.06

Doughty: -0.06

Look at that gap between Doughty and Muzzin - on the same team no less! Clearly, if Canada's looking for two-way play, they should stop fooling around with these pretenders and just bring Jake Muzzin.

Muzzin - Subban

Keith - Seabrook

Garrison - Letang

Staal - Boyle

/endcrazy.

No one suggested it is the "only stat that matters" but it is likely one that the team brass are looking at.

You used primarily scoring and Corsi Rel to make your original point while ignoring a host of other factors.

No one disputes Hall's scoring ability but Corsi Rel, as you know, measures how Hall stacked up against his own team mates.

That doesn't tell us much of anything since the rest of the team was dreadful.

If you're, then basing your argument merely on scoring prowess, I wonder how you feel about Corey Perry not being selected?

Over the past 3 seasons:

Perry: 102G 98A 300P

Hall: 65G 80A 145P

Clearly, team management is making their decisions based on more than pure scoring ability which is likely wise.

The "chemistry" argument being used to support the Kunitz selection is a little weak in my opinion but I think it'll take a little more than scoring to overcome it.

I have no doubt that Hall can play his way onto the team if he improves his 200 foot game and I'm sure they've told Hall what he needs to do so now it's up to him.

Avatar
#96 DSF
August 29 2013, 11:00AM
Trash it!
6
trashes
+1
0
props
Romulus' Apotheosis wrote:

Hilarious that you know nothing about a stat you disdain only to trot out when it "appears" convenient to a trifling non-argument.

Enjoy thinking Hall isn't amazing!

Suggesting I "know nothing about a stat" is nothing more than thinly veiled ad hominem attack.

Poking holes in those stats is relatively easy

Still waiting for your "all relevant stats" so we can move this discussion beyond a "trifling non argument"

Fire away.

What have you got?

Avatar
#97 Romulus' Apotheosis
August 29 2013, 11:05AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
4
props
DSF wrote:

Suggesting I "know nothing about a stat" is nothing more than thinly veiled ad hominem attack.

Poking holes in those stats is relatively easy

Still waiting for your "all relevant stats" so we can move this discussion beyond a "trifling non argument"

Fire away.

What have you got?

statements of fact.

you both don't understand the stat, or ignore its context. And, you don't put any stock in it when you perceive some non-hockey benefit, i.e., a weird emotional high from being silly online.

fun!

Avatar
#98 DSF
August 29 2013, 11:14AM
Trash it!
5
trashes
+1
0
props
Romulus' Apotheosis wrote:

statements of fact.

you both don't understand the stat, or ignore its context. And, you don't put any stock in it when you perceive some non-hockey benefit, i.e., a weird emotional high from being silly online.

fun!

Oh, I understand the stats just fine and "context" has replaced patriotism as the last refuge of the scoundrel when it comes to discussion about them.

Now, put on your Big Boy Pants® and support your sweeping conclusion that Hall is "one of the best two way players in the game".

Please feel free to add all the "context" you like.

Giddyup.

Avatar
#99 Romulus' Apotheosis
August 29 2013, 11:21AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
6
props
DSF wrote:

Oh, I understand the stats just fine and "context" has replaced patriotism as the last refuge of the scoundrel when it comes to discussion about them.

Now, put on your Big Boy Pants® and support your sweeping conclusion that Hall is "one of the best two way players in the game".

Please feel free to add all the "context" you like.

Giddyup.

If you were an honest broker all manor of conversations would be possible.

As it stands, you are not and have never demonstrated a serious interest in understanding any facts not serving your own emotional needs.

Avatar
#100 Zamboni Driver
August 29 2013, 11:27AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
2
props

I think the 'trashes' addition is the funniest thing I've seen in a while.

Anyone who DARES say Hall will not make (not does not belong, but will not make) the team gets trashed.

Okay here's what I think we should do.

ENTIRE OILERS LINEUP, get citizenship for anyone not from Canada especially for Omark (*girlgasm*) - add in Sidney Crosby, because I hear he's almost as good as the Nuge, and go take on the Ruskies.

To make room, we'll have to drop Smytty though.

Comments are closed for this article.