HEARTBREAKS AND NEW LIFE (GAGNER BROKEN JAW)

Lowetide
September 22 2013 11:03AM

Sam Gagner's broken jaw added to RNH's recovery puts the Oilers in a big hole. How does this week look now? Click through and see.

TRANSACTIONS BEFORE THE GAGNER INJURY

I thought the Oilers might IR Corey Potter, Denis Grebeshkov and Ryan Nugent-Hopkins to start things, and then go into full cut down mode:

  • Return Darnell Nurse and Jujhar Khaira to their junior teams.
  • Demote to OKC G Richard Bachman.
  • Sign G Ty Rimmer and send him to Barons camp.
  • Send down Oscar Klefbom, Martin Marincin, Brad Hunt and Taylor Fedun.
  • Send down Anton Lander, Mark Arcobello, Andrew Miller, Ryan Martindale, Linus Omark, Curtis Hamilton and Tyler Pitlick.

OPENING NIGHT 23 MAN ROSTER AFTER THE GAGNER INJURY

  • Goal (2): Devan Dubnyk and Jason LaBarberta
  • Defense (7): Jeff Petry, Ladislav Smid, Andrew Ference, Justin Schultz, Nick Schultz, Anton Belov, Phil Larsen
  • Center (4): Taylor Hall, Mark Arcobello, Boyd Gordon, Will Acton, Anton Lander
  • Left Wing (5): David Perron, Jesse Joensuu, Ryan Smyth, Ryan Hamilton, Ben Eager
  • Right Wing (5): Jordan Eberle, Ales Hemsky, Nail Yakupov, Ryan Jones, Mike Brown

After the Gagner injury, I think Arcobello and Lander may make the team.There's no Gagner replacement out there and the Oilers top center is also on the shelf. This is a massive item for the Edmonton Oilers season. I would guess this could be bad news for Ben Eager, Ryan Hamilton or Ryan Jones. Ryan Smyth may be asked to play center.

WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?

It's a bitter bitter pill. Wow.

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Lowetide has been one of the Oilogosphere's shining lights for over a century. You can check him out here at OilersNation and at lowetide.ca. He is also the host of Lowdown with Lowetide weekday mornings 10-noon on Team 1260.
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#51 Geoff
September 22 2013, 11:10AM
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Why Larsen over Fedun? After last nights performance I'd definitely give him a chance.

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#53 hallsyoilerforever5
September 22 2013, 11:15AM
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Kassian should be suspended. Same with Weise. How there's nothing on them getting a hearing with Shanahan is truly discouraging. Especially with Gagner out with a broken jaw from a intentional stick from that cheapshot Kassian.

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#54 Crackenbury
September 22 2013, 11:41AM
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I think another temporary answer for a top-2 centre is already on the roster. Perron has the smarts and is already fairly good on the dot. He can fill in for a couple of weeks without missing a beat. I believe he played a bit last night after Gagner went down.

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#55 Rama Lama
September 22 2013, 11:57AM
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Just how many players do we need to lose from cheap shots and overly aggressive plays before we finally agree that deterrence is required. In fact I would say if we do not get some "real physical deterrence", more of our star players will get hurt.

Imagine the greatest Oilers team during Gretzky's era, not having Semenko, Mclleland, McSorley, Brown, etc. You get the idea Gretzky had a say in the make up of the team, and always respected and promoted what they did. Now we have all these politically correct knuckleheads telling us we do not need toughness......pathetic .

Just because you have a gun and never use it does not mean it's not doing it's job.

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#57 The Soup Fascist
September 22 2013, 12:22PM
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DSF wrote:

Much longer ago than last summer.

While drafting all those wingers and, then, defensemen, other teams who are following the mantra of building down the middle, have been loading up on centres.

So we should still place you firmly in the Seguin > Hall camp?

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#58 Mikey
September 22 2013, 02:59PM
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Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty) wrote:

Yes David ...time is a continuim.....thank you for that...

Point is, we'd be taking matters into our own hands.

I'm guessing you had you older sister fight your fights for you on the play ground?

You're right it would have happened after the fact. But, maybe there wouldn't be a next time? I'm an eye for an eye guy. I would have no issue with someone smashing one of the twins teeth in.

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#59 Jordan Nugent-Hallkins
September 22 2013, 03:01PM
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Spydyr wrote:

You are right Yak should have acknowledged the sweet pass from Khaira and the hard work in the corner from Hamilton. He looked like a me player.

Gonna have to disagree with you here. Yak worked his ass off for 60 minutes last night, driving the play every time he touched the puck. That goal was his reward for being the best player on the ice, I think he deserved a bit of spotlight after his performance. Plus, the swagger he brings to the ice is something the Oilers have lacked for far too long.

Sweet Jesus, Gags better not be out till the end of October. I like the idea someone above floated of putting Eberle in at 2C, what have they got to lose?

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#60 ed in edmonton
September 22 2013, 06:23PM
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thebiggestmanintheworld wrote:

Every team has a reputation.

It doesn't matter what we, as fans, think of them. The players know each team and their players.

Vancouver's rep for being greasy divers is well deserved.

Edmonton's rep for being butter soft and easy to play against is as well.

Enforcer, goons, pests, a good death stare are all well and good, and I have no clue what the "answer" is, but make no mistake about it....

No team fears playing the Oilers.

That has to change if this team is going to win.

Do you think teams "feared" playing Chicago last year (in a physical sense)?

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#61 JB
September 22 2013, 11:33AM
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Get on the phone, MacT, you have some work to do.

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#62 Sliderule
September 22 2013, 11:54AM
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There was a reason that Torts didn't dress his skill players.

After getting thumped at home against oil he dressed his goon squad lineup..He didn't want oil to retaliate against sisters so he sat them.

Torts coaches dirty hockey just ask any player in eastern conference.

A few years ago the isles answered his goons by bringing up goons from minors and had a huge brawl.

The only way to answer him is to break a sisters ankle.

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#63 They're $hittie
September 22 2013, 12:01PM
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no ones stick swings like that out of carelessness. Blatant cheap shot.

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#64 Ari Gold
September 22 2013, 12:38PM
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This is why the Oil should have signed Grabo. Now MacT will pay the price for lacking centre depth. There isn't even one true C in the top 6 now.

Also, Oil need to get a whole lot more mean. Feed them bowls of blood before the game or whatever. If Hall or Gags are even looked at the wrong way, Brown should be out there crushing skulls.

I'd be happy if Omark was on the team, but I'd like to see Eager & Brown on the 4th line. Oilers need their own nuclear deterrent.

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#65 The Soup Fascist
September 22 2013, 12:41PM
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DSF wrote:

Yes. I have been all along.

Since young players mature and develop at different rates, it's too early to decide which player will have the better career but I would expect Seguin will open a few eyes this season in Dallas.

Wow. That is one juicy looking worm! But I don't think I will bite.

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#66 Craig1981
September 22 2013, 12:48PM
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After watching the game I had the following thoughts:

-Belov was a smooth with they puck as Grebs was, but didn't give me a heart attack every time he has it in our zone.

-Hope we sign Rimmer as he would be our best goaltending prospect in the system.

-Wish instead of twirling his stick and looking into the crowd Yak, would of gave some props to Khaira for his pass (I'm not faulting him , but would of been nice)

-hope it is only a hairline fracture and not a total break. With 10 days before the start of the season and Crosby missing only 13 games for a major break, maybe its only single digit games he will miss.

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#67 Peter
September 22 2013, 12:56PM
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Dregor just tweeted that Sam will probably have surgery as early as tomorrow to fix his jaw. Man I hope he doesn't miss too many games, we're screwed at center.

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#68 Craig1981
September 22 2013, 12:57PM
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DSF wrote:

Yes he is but, obviously drafting a centre in the first round every 5 years is not enough.

Might be time to explore what it would take to pry Paul Statsny out of Colorado.

Colorado is loaded at C.

Given the cap situation, any deal would likely have to involve Hemsky and I would imagine the AVs would want an actual NHL D as part of the trade.

I don't see huge worry here. I'm not sure how bad of break he has, but as i said Crosby (who had a bad break) only missed 13 games and we have 10 days before the start of the season. Before game 10 the Oil might have their top 2 centers back and Hall as a replacement is one does go down again.

Don't see any reason to feel our hand is forced in pulling off a big trade.

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#69 JJ
September 22 2013, 01:12PM
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No Snowpants? No problem.

Perron - Hall - Hemsky Omark - Eberle - Yakupov Smyth - Gordon - Joensuu Eager - Lander - Brown

I hope Omark makes the team just to see the reaction from all you haters of our swedish youtube sensation.

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#70 Spydyr
September 22 2013, 01:46PM
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Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty) wrote:

Oh...I'm sorry....did that offend you?

Not me.

Fight your own battles. Back in the day you learned that in elementary school.

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#71 pkam
September 22 2013, 02:44PM
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The best way to payback, with interest, is to do the same to the Sedins (I mean Sedins, not just Sedin). If we are going to get a game misconduct or suspension, make sure one of the star players will be out longer than the suspension.

We have many players, Jones, Eager, Joensuu, Brown, Acton, Hamilton, Lander, who should be good candidates of doing it, just need more practice so they don't miss it when the opportunity comes.

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#72 Kevrock
September 22 2013, 02:48PM
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Vancouver and Calgary as the work their way to the basement are very much going to be Monsters INC. League office better come down hard and fast on Vancouver for the gong show they put on last night.

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#73 pkam
September 22 2013, 03:33PM
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Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty) wrote:

Four things...

One, maybe you're right, maybe McIntyre wasn't the right guy

Two, its not a zero sum game.....it may well have deterred them......perhaps it would have been worse had he not been there..

Three, you'd rather be the guy/team getting run over as opposed to the guy/team doing the running over?

And Four, and I've said it before, you can't statistic your way to a Stanley Cup....it's a game of emotion...fear, courage, elation, rage, etc....and when some Canuck like Kassian takes Gagner out of the lineup for two months, or elbows Hall in the head and concusses him, or knees RNH and blows his knee out, I don't care what the league does....I want to smash his face in or see one of my teammates smash his face in.....It makes me feel better....so sue me.

If McIntyre is not the right guy, who can be the right guy?

If you have an enforcer like McIntyre in your line up and other teams still run your star players, what have you accomplished with the enforcer? How does it help our team to win the Stanley cup? In the last 5 years, which Stanley Cup winners have an enforcer in their roster?

What good does it do if we smash Kassian face or Wiese face? Why don't we run their star players like the Sedins? He took one of our stars out, we will take two of theirs out. And we can do it even with our 3rd/4th liners or even call up from the minors. Why do we need an enforcer to beat their pest?

If all the enforcer can do is beat the hell out of their pest (and I doubt you can sucker punch him without getting suspended if he hides behind the referees), but couldn't stop them from running our star players, who good does it do? Are you going to trade our star players for their pest players?

And what happen after our enforcer get suspended? Open season for all teams to run our star players?

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#74 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
September 22 2013, 03:41PM
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pkam wrote:

Okay, Ben Eager is not the answer. How about Steve McIntyre? Would he be scary enough to be the deterrent?

The Oilers injury report: 2009-10: 530 man games 2010-11: 281 man games 2011-12: 246 man games 2012-13: 118 man games (202 prorated for 82 games)

So we had McIntyre in 09-10 and 10-11, but we had more man games lost in those 2 years.

McIntyre KO the Flames enforcer Ivanans in game 1 but our young stars were still being run and finally Hall to fight Dorsett and end his season early. Isn't the same year that Raffi elbow Eberle at his head?

Can you explain why having McIntyre didn't stop the other teams from running our young stars?

I have seen Pest Cooke, Avery, Clutterbuck, etc running star players all these years and never have to fight an enforcer once.

After Nolan hit his teammate, Bissonnette jumped the bench to fight Nolan and got a game misconduct and 10 game suspension, let's see if this will stop the Kings from running their players. I really doubt it.

Question for you Pkam....no sarcasm....no ill will intended.....

When a guy like Mike Brown steps in and takes matters into his own hands by fighting someone on the opposition, Why do the rest of his teammates stand up and bang their sticks on the boards?

Why, after winning a car at an all star game, did Wayne Gretzky give that car to Dave Semenko? Semenko didn't play in that game.

If you can understand the answer to those two questions, you'll understand, at least in part, the arguments I'm making in this thread.

To misqoute Yogi Berra....the game is 2/3's mental...the other half is physical.

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#75 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
September 22 2013, 03:54PM
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michael wrote:

Arcobello and Omark play the first month. No way should Eakins be thinking of sending either to OKC. We need their skill. Balance their size with Hamilton and Jonesuu.

Cut it out....You're making Lowtide giddy here.....his eyes are welling up at the thought of it.......Arcobello and Hamilton?!.... ;)

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#76 michael
September 22 2013, 03:58PM
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Semenko works for the Oilers and is and always will be one of the top 10 Oilers in terms of who people will always remember. He is as iconic as Messier or Gretzky. Who will remember that Louis Debrusk was an Oiler in 20 years? Mike Brown has earned a job on this roster because he not only fights but he has earned his teammates respect for his play. What has Eager done? Zip. Gotta step up and earn your spot.

Fedun? Has stepped up. Deserves a spot. Rimmer? Deserves a contract in Bakersfield.

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#77 pkam
September 22 2013, 04:26PM
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Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty) wrote:

Question for you Pkam....no sarcasm....no ill will intended.....

When a guy like Mike Brown steps in and takes matters into his own hands by fighting someone on the opposition, Why do the rest of his teammates stand up and bang their sticks on the boards?

Why, after winning a car at an all star game, did Wayne Gretzky give that car to Dave Semenko? Semenko didn't play in that game.

If you can understand the answer to those two questions, you'll understand, at least in part, the arguments I'm making in this thread.

To misqoute Yogi Berra....the game is 2/3's mental...the other half is physical.

Because they enjoy watching fighting like some of the fans do?

They can fight all they want, my point is it won't stop the other team from cheap shot by winning a few meaningless fights. And it definitely will not win you any game.

To some fans, they feel they get some value back if there is a few fights even if their team lose, not me. I couldn't care how many fights we win if we lose the game.

If an enforcer or some fighting can keep the other teams playing honest, I am all for it. But so far I am not convinced.

If you enjoy to watch fighting, that is fine with me. But if you argue that fighting can protect our star players, you have to support your argument with some facts, not just opinion.

I support my argument with facts why I don't think it will work. Where is the facts of your argument?

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#78 thebiggestmanintheworld
September 22 2013, 06:01PM
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Every team has a reputation.

It doesn't matter what we, as fans, think of them. The players know each team and their players.

Vancouver's rep for being greasy divers is well deserved.

Edmonton's rep for being butter soft and easy to play against is as well.

Enforcer, goons, pests, a good death stare are all well and good, and I have no clue what the "answer" is, but make no mistake about it....

No team fears playing the Oilers.

That has to change if this team is going to win.

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#79 thebiggestmanintheworld
September 22 2013, 07:16PM
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ed in edmonton wrote:

Do you think teams "feared" playing Chicago last year (in a physical sense)?

Yes, I do think teams "feared" playing Chicago last year. Physically and mentally feared it.

Chasing the puck all night is not fun. Skating hard for every loose puck is draining. Scrambling in your own zone is exhausting. Getting hit every time you touch the puck wears you down...

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#80 Wax Man Riley
September 22 2013, 07:26PM
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Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty) wrote:

Nor have they addressed what caused the deficiency...LOL

I know! An errant stick and a rut I the ice need to be addressed!

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#81 Oiler Al
September 22 2013, 11:03PM
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Why are these loogans even out there during preseason game. They certainly don't dress them for playoff games?

Tortorella dressed all his goonies for a preseason game ...knowing full well that the Oilers play skilled players only.Shows you what class this coach has... none.

Not any different than Scott showboating against the Leafs.. Why are these guys even on the ice at this time of the year... more bush league stuff from the NHL.

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#82 Geoff
September 22 2013, 11:12AM
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Also last nights game was SICK. Even though the nucks were without their big guns. There were times when the skill of our team made a laughing stock of the nucks lol. Yakupov was just scary lol.

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#83 Spydyr
September 22 2013, 11:22AM
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Lowetide wrote:

Gagner broken jaw. Will update

Bad news. They really need to pick up a center or two now.

Looks like your final roster is bang on IMO even though I really liked Hunt and Fedun this camp.

Maybe it is Sunday morning but I can't see Grebeshkov any where. Is he out getting fitted for a tin foil hat?

Edit found Grebeshkov on the IR.

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#84 Spydyr
September 22 2013, 11:29AM
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DSF wrote:

Craig MacTavish ‏@FakeOilersGM 1m

Taylor Hall will start the year at center for us.. on all four lines.

Retweeted by mc79hockey

I wish he could.Maybe just double shift him.

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#85 Crackenbury
September 22 2013, 11:30AM
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It's nice to actually have legitimate discussion about who the Oilers should keep and who they should demote.

We haven't seen enough competition against actual NHL players to get a good feel for where some of the players belong, but based on actual play to date Fedun and even Hunt outplay Larsen all day long for the final D spot. Grebeshkov wasn't as bad as I thought he would be last night. The guy can definitely make a pass. Please send down Nurse, I don't care how good he looks. Give it at least a year and then have another look at him and Khaira. Man that lineup is going to be huge in a year or two!

Mike Brown has outplayed Jones by a wide margin based on the role he needs to play. There is no point in keeping Jones on the roster for a fourth line role. He doesn't fit the position as defined by his coach. Opposition players certainly have no fear of Jones when he jumps over the boards. Brown, Eager and Acton could be hell on skates and exactly what Eakins is looking for.

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#86 lostdog82
September 22 2013, 11:33AM
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Not tradeing from a position of strenght but MacT has to find a real NHL centre man. October will be a long month for the Oilers with these injury problems.

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#87 Ivan Drago
September 22 2013, 11:42AM
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Congrats you have just won the award for dumbest and most irrelevant comment of the month. Good job.

We all knew C depth was gonna be a problem, thought we'd at least make it to the regular season though.

MacT, over to you, I have faith.

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#89 godot10
September 22 2013, 12:02PM
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Taylor Fedun is a better defensemen than Larsen and Grebeshkov and Potter.

He may be doomed by wavier eligibility, and that he shouldn't be in the press box. Larsen and Grebeshkov are qualified to sit in the pressbox.

But Taylor Fedun is the real #7 D.

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#90 Spydyr
September 22 2013, 12:10PM
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Rama Lama wrote:

Just how many players do we need to lose from cheap shots and overly aggressive plays before we finally agree that deterrence is required. In fact I would say if we do not get some "real physical deterrence", more of our star players will get hurt.

Imagine the greatest Oilers team during Gretzky's era, not having Semenko, Mclleland, McSorley, Brown, etc. You get the idea Gretzky had a say in the make up of the team, and always respected and promoted what they did. Now we have all these politically correct knuckleheads telling us we do not need toughness......pathetic .

Just because you have a gun and never use it does not mean it's not doing it's job.

Could not agree more.

It was nice to see Brown waiting for the knucklehead that tried to take Hall's head off.

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#91 The Oilers Shot Clock
September 22 2013, 12:20PM
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@rock-et

Well we know what Shero would do if he were down them both don't we? I've liked everything MacT has done this summer except not addressing this. Hindsight is always 20/20 but in this case it's even worse. RNH has spent the summer injured and Sam was in a contract dispute, MacT had better have some embers still warm from some conversations he better have had this summer.

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#92 The Soup Fascist
September 22 2013, 12:32PM
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DSF wrote:

BPA is nothing more than an opinion and often the results don't match that opinion.

While the 3 players you mention are all fine young hockey players, if the decision is close you should draft the centre.

Perhaps even more to the point, drafting a D in the top 10 is foolish unless the players is a slam dunk franchise defenseman who can make an impact very quickly.

Alex Galchenyuk would look pretty good in an Oilers jersey right about now.

While I typically agree with your view on drafting D-men early, taking Horvat over Nurse this year would not materially improve the position the Oilers find themselves in right now. A veteran center is what is needed .... Stat!

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#94 olderthendirt
September 22 2013, 12:51PM
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This should settle who is the best #4 center. a trial by fire. Was it just me or was Yak moving so fast there seemed to be two of him at times. Unlike previous years there was always one or more oilers near the puck. Who needs an enforcer just have Yak hit them with a shot. I might have to change my wind over who is the best #1 pick.

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#95 freelancer
September 22 2013, 01:00PM
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So if we're looking at Gagner out the next couple weeks at least. Any chance they try and move Eberle to center as well, he has shown interest in moving there to help out. Smyth-Hall-Hemsky Perron-Eberle-Yak Not ideal may be better than going with an Arcobello or a Lander

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#96 Dennis
September 22 2013, 01:55PM
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Terrible news for Sam and the team. Hopefully they can find a way to pull through until RNH comes back. I thought Hall's comment was fitting that if you're swinging your stick around that carelessly, it's totally your fault. McKenzie is saying that the league is going to look at both the Kassian play and the Weiss play on Hall, but nothing definitive about hearings.

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#97 pkam
September 22 2013, 02:36PM
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Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty) wrote:

This is the first real test of our new coach. He sat up high and watched our young stars get butchered......lets see how he reacts......does he pull a Lowetide and keep/add Hamilton on the roster....or does he make some demands on his GM to get muscle added to the lineup?

Ben Eagre is not the answer....Ben Eagre has been seriously concussed and has no desire (and rightfully so) to risk another more serious head injury.

And all you pretty things out there that are counting on the league (Brendan Shanahan) to protect you after the fact are FRANKING CLUELESS....this is a man's game....either you step up or you get stepped on....you fight your own battles...so cut the intellectualizing and the whining that follows..".oh those other teams are so mean"...."oh the refs are so unfair"...."oh the league should do something".....CLUELESS FRANKING PANSIES!

Okay, Ben Eager is not the answer. How about Steve McIntyre? Would he be scary enough to be the deterrent?

The Oilers injury report: 2009-10: 530 man games 2010-11: 281 man games 2011-12: 246 man games 2012-13: 118 man games (202 prorated for 82 games)

So we had McIntyre in 09-10 and 10-11, but we had more man games lost in those 2 years.

McIntyre KO the Flames enforcer Ivanans in game 1 but our young stars were still being run and finally Hall to fight Dorsett and end his season early. Isn't the same year that Raffi elbow Eberle at his head?

Can you explain why having McIntyre didn't stop the other teams from running our young stars?

I have seen Pest Cooke, Avery, Clutterbuck, etc running star players all these years and never have to fight an enforcer once.

After Nolan hit his teammate, Bissonnette jumped the bench to fight Nolan and got a game misconduct and 10 game suspension, let's see if this will stop the Kings from running their players. I really doubt it.

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#98 quintana
September 22 2013, 03:01PM
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bob mackenzie@.NHL reviewing VAN Dale Weise's hit on EDM Taylor Hall/VAN Zack Kassian high stick on EDM Sam Gagner. No word yet on if hearings will follow.

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#99 Wax Man Riley
September 22 2013, 03:16PM
Trash it!
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Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty) wrote:

Four things...

One, maybe you're right, maybe McIntyre wasn't the right guy

Two, its not a zero sum game.....it may well have deterred them......perhaps it would have been worse had he not been there..

Three, you'd rather be the guy/team getting run over as opposed to the guy/team doing the running over?

And Four, and I've said it before, you can't statistic your way to a Stanley Cup....it's a game of emotion...fear, courage, elation, rage, etc....and when some Canuck like Kassian takes Gagner out of the lineup for two months, or elbows Hall in the head and concusses him, or knees RNH and blows his knee out, I don't care what the league does....I want to smash his face in or see one of my teammates smash his face in.....It makes me feel better....so sue me.

I think the biggest part of the debate is that having a huge heavyweight face puncher doesn't stop Nuge's knee being blown out, Hall being concussed, or Gagner being hi-sticked.

That still happens no matter how many SMacs, McGrattans, or Lucic's you have in the lineup.

As you said:

it's a game of emotion...fear, courage, elation, rage, etc....and when some Canuck like Kassian takes Gagner out of the lineup for two months, or elbows Hall in the head and concusses him, or knees RNH and blows his knee out, I don't care what the league does....I want to smash his face in or see one of my teammates smash his face in.....It makes me feel better....so sue me.

The injuries still happen.

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#100 marty62
September 22 2013, 03:36PM
Trash it!
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trashes
Cheers
8
cheers

wanted to comment on a couple things. I am as angry as the next fan on what happened with Gagner, and picking up a McIntyre or some other nuclear deterrent is a feel good reaction, but it wont work. If having a goon worked in todays NHL then we wouldnt be constantly on these blogs bitching about the Torres, Tootoo and other morons in the league because the goon deterrent would, if it worked, neutralize them. But it doesnt. THese guys wont engage with fighters or dont have to because its at a time in the game when you dont want to take an instigator penalty. these guys will continue to do what they do until they take away the instigator and then ANYONE on the ice can kick their ass after they do something stupid. i see people are still yammering about Yak and his celebrations. Whats the big deal? lots of players are like that. You have to remember, hes a kid! he is living his dream! I admire how much passion for the game he has and I hope he never stops. Its players like him that make us want to watch. give me more players like him instead of guys that go through the motions and never show anything, and yes Im looking at you Horcoff.....

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