The Road Gets a Little Bumpier

Jason Strudwick
September 23 2013 09:33AM

Saturday night, in a preseason game against the Vancouver Canucks there was a stupid stick swinging incident involving the Canucks Zack Kassian. The result has really put a dent in the Oilers ability to have a strong start to this season.

Sam Gagner was hit by Kassian's stick in the mouth and by all reports he will miss a yet to be determined number of regular season games thanks to a broken jaw. The timing of this is very frustrating for any player.

All players work very hard in the summer to be fine tuned to get off to a good start. Hours in the gym and on the ice make sure they are ready to go. There is never a good time to be injured but I always felt that getting hurt in preseason was brutal.

The rest of the NHL continues right along and a player injured in exhibition is left behind. It is inevitable that Gagner will lose the fine edge he was worked on all summer. His level of conditioning will be challenged in two ways:

One, I would not expect a lot of training for him while the injury is acute. Two, his calorie and diet intake will be altered. After losing teeth and breaking your jaw would you feel like consuming the necessary calories to maintain your weight and energy levels?

I once took a puck to the mouth the morning after our team's rookie party (great times by the way). The dentist described the state of my mouth like this... "it looks like a grenade went off on your lips." Not what I wanted to hear, especially after a late night. A bunch of teeth were loose and I had to wear a brace across my top row of teeth. I lived on soup and protein shakes for a few weeks. Until I could eat whole foods again I was losing weight faster then Gregor was losing his hair at the age of eighteen.

This isn't good news for Gagner. In time he will get to the level he wants to be but it will not be right away. I know how competitive he is and the high expectations he puts on himself. The longer his down time, the longer it will take for him to get back to playing at his self imposed high level.

For the Oilers, the Gagner injury will leave them without their top two centers to start the season. Due to the Olympic break the Oilers have a full month of games in October. Wins will be harder to come by without both Gagner and Nuge. Take the top two centers off any team and that team will struggle.

As for Zach Kassian this was a very stupid play. I honestly don't understand how his stick could end up hitting Gagner in the face. I feel that a player is always responsible for his stick. Always. I do not think it was by accident that it flew up and hit Gagner in the face. It was on or near the ice and then flies up? Makes no sense to me.

The Consequences

Kassian will probably be suspended. If I am the Oilers why do I care about that? It doesn't bring back Gagner any sooner. One, two, 5, 10 games...doesn't make a difference. Even for the Canucks, at this stage in Kassian's development their team will move on without him.

I think the issue is with the lack of overall toughness in the Oilers lineup. Players like Kassian have no fear in playing the Oilers extra tough. Who outside of Mike Brown can stand up to a guy like Kassian or Andrew Alberts? Both these guys were running around Saturday night in Edmonton like there was no reason to be afraid! They're big guys, but nothing to lose sleep over unless a team like the Oilers doesn't have guys to match up to them with.

I know Edmonton got a lot of power plays against the Canucks Saturday. The plan is to score on those PP attempts frequently enough that the opponent will have to tone down the physical play. I get that, but at some point doesn't the team need to have the ability to stand up for itself?

When is enough enough? And when they get to that point who will be the guy to do it? I really like Brown as a player, he played very well saturday, but it is unfair to ask one undersized guy to fight the whole team's battles. I am not saying go out and bring in a Steve MacIntyre type player, just bring in someone who can play and step up when needed.

Last summer the Canadians signed Brandon Prust to a nice contract. He plays hard and fought most of the team's battles when needed. He did a good job but it is a lonely job if you are the only one doing it and you are undersized. Marc Bergevin saw the need to get him some help. This off season he brought in George Parros to take the pressure off Prust. I guarantee all the Habs are walking taller this season.

I don't care if Kassian gets suspended for one or ten games. I do care how the Oilers respond when they play him again. It is important for the team to not brush this over like nothing happened or it was an accident. The Oiler team can make a statement to not only the Canucks but all the teams in the league with some kind of a response.

Will someone stand up and say enough is enough?

5cf6b487166aced0cd781e41bfef915e
Jason hosts the Jason Strudwick show from 9pm to 12am, weeknights on the team 1260. He is an instructor at Mount Carmel Hockey Academy and loves working with the kids. Having played over 650 games in the NHL, Jason has some great stories and unique takes on life in the NHL. He loves Slurpees and Blizzards. Dislikes baggy clothes and close talkers.
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#101 madjam
September 23 2013, 11:26AM
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Zamboni Driver wrote:

Surely SURELY TO GOD "1m" does not mean they're paying

STEVE MACINTYRE

A million dollars????????

It's called asset management acquisition . Protection for your stars players is paramount and necessary . Small price to pay if it saves and deters injuries to star players in the future .

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#102 Czar
September 23 2013, 11:28AM
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Spydyr wrote:

He takes the fourth line centers roster spot. Then you double shift Hall as the fourth line center between Brown and Eager who hit everything in sight.

Smac comes out to play when needed. When someone has to bleed.

Easy huh?

And bleed they will!

The folks who don't see the need for an enforcer are the same bitches who are left holding coats and purses when sh+t goes down.

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#103 WONGER
September 23 2013, 11:29AM
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THANK YOU MAC T!!!!!!! I LOVE YOU!!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! PLEASE TELL DALLAS TO LET HIM DO HIS JOB EVEN IF IT MEANS A FEW EXTRA PENALTIES!!!!!!!!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!!! THANK YOU!!!! THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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#104 Reinman
September 23 2013, 11:29AM
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Justice would be for Vancouver to give us Kesler until Gagner returns. :-)

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#105 DSF
September 23 2013, 11:30AM
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Romulus' Apotheosis wrote:

I'm not melding anything.

I'm changeling claims made. People can't make a bunch of claims and then turtle when asked to confront reality.

If you want to leave it at some amorphous quality like the players "feel tougher" on the bench when SMac is around, fine.

When you claim having a player like SMac around leads to tangible results you have to confront the reality that this simply isn't the case.

When did I advocate for SMac?

The guy can't play hockey. At all.

Another dumb move by MacT in my opinion.

Setting that up as your straw man is not all that helpful.

Other more enlightened GM's have, instead placed an emphasis on team toughness and have been acquiring big, tough players who can play.

Despite what happened last night, the Leafs acquisition of David Clarkson is an excellent example of that.

MacT also apparently recognized Clarkson's value when trying to sign him in the offseason, but he failed and didn't produce an alternative while many existed in a the marketplace.

For example, Brendan Morrow signed with the Blues today for $1.5M.

Who do you think would add more value to the Oilers lineup this season...Morrow or Grebs, Larsen, Belov or Potter?

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#106 Romulus' Apotheosis
September 23 2013, 11:30AM
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So, what is the fantasy here...

SMac is put on the ice against the Sedins.

If.. and this is a big if, he manages to catch up to one of them without the Oil getting scored on, he smashes one.

A Sedin is out for x amount of time.

SMac is suspended for x amount of time.

The Oilers don't improve having the Nucks lose a player. Probably lose the game. And now they are without their hulking beast.

You gain nothing other than violence and are back to square one.

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#107 Truth
September 23 2013, 11:31AM
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Romulus' Apotheosis wrote:

He should have been looking for a C from day one.

SMac is a bad pick up regardless of the situation.

There are options remaining for Cs... every second counts.

MacIntyre is a free pick up. Play him in the rest of the preseason games, if he's horrible and someone else warrants a spot ahead of him then cut him. If he provides value keep him. There is no doubt the Oilers would be better with Couturier, or B. Schenn, or J. Staal on the team, but they aren't cheap to acquire. At this point the best bet for MacT is to see who falls through on waivers or who could potentially become available with new hires coming out of pre-season.

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#108 **
September 23 2013, 11:31AM
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why is Dave Steckel not on an oilers jersey yet?

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#109 Romulus' Apotheosis
September 23 2013, 11:32AM
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Bicepus Maximus - Peter, The Great. Potter, the Goat. wrote:

WHAT?? MACT COULD HAVE CLAIMED LUCIC BUT PICKED UP SMAC INSTEAD?? WHAT AN IDIOT!

This makes less sense than your last comment.

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#110 Bill
September 23 2013, 11:34AM
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Reinman wrote:

Justice would be for Vancouver to give us Kesler until Gagner returns. :-)

Justice would be sidelining Kesler or one of the Sedins for a month or two.

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#111 JJ
September 23 2013, 11:34AM
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DSF wrote:

When did I advocate for SMac?

The guy can't play hockey. At all.

Another dumb move by MacT in my opinion.

Setting that up as your straw man is not all that helpful.

Other more enlightened GM's have, instead placed an emphasis on team toughness and have been acquiring big, tough players who can play.

Despite what happened last night, the Leafs acquisition of David Clarkson is an excellent example of that.

MacT also apparently recognized Clarkson's value when trying to sign him in the offseason, but he failed and didn't produce an alternative while many existed in a the marketplace.

For example, Brendan Morrow signed with the Blues today for $1.5M.

Who do you think would add more value to the Oilers lineup this season...Morrow or Grebs, Larsen, Belov or Potter?

Your first DSF fallacy is assuming Morrow would sign with the Oil. Pretty sure he wanted to play for a 'cup contender' (Hence the Blues).

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#112 Romulus' Apotheosis
September 23 2013, 11:35AM
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** wrote:

Dude, he actually said the opposite of that: http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2013/09/23/edmonton-oilers-claim-steve-macintyre-on-waivers/

Who is the "he" here?

Bruce or MacT?

I'm pretty sure Bruce isn't contradicting himself here... not sure what your beef is in contrasting his tweets with his articles.

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#113 Cold Hard Truth
September 23 2013, 11:35AM
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If the Oilers do not make the playoffs this year, pundits will point to MacTavish's failure to address the depth a center as the reason in their post-season autopsy.

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#114 DSF
September 23 2013, 11:38AM
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JJ wrote:

Your first DSF fallacy is assuming Morrow would sign with the Oil. Pretty sure he wanted to play for a 'cup contender' (Hence the Blues).

Yes.

If we assume no one wants to sign with the Oilers...MacT is a genius.

Jeebus....there is more than 1 player in the league who is tough to play against.

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#115 Truth
September 23 2013, 11:38AM
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** wrote:

why is Dave Steckel not on an oilers jersey yet?

He and Mac skate at about the same pace.

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#116 Bloodsweatandoil
September 23 2013, 11:40AM
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Awesome post Dan!!

Mac T had to do something,and that is the great thing about him. He has not been the manager for very long and he has moved the right peices in and out very quickly with what was available,combined with if the aquisistion wants to play here. I do not think he has missed the boat on anything yet as his juggling is not done. This is one of those knee-jerk reactions that I respect and agree with. This Oiler team is now playing for serious along with a proper manager and a coach moulding it. The makeup and the character of this team has just changed for the better again,and their respect level from other clubs has also just elevated that much more.

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#117 Truth
September 23 2013, 11:42AM
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@Cold Hard Truth

There's truth, and then there's the cold hard truth

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#118 The Soup Fascist
September 23 2013, 11:43AM
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** wrote:

why is Dave Steckel not on an oilers jersey yet?

Because Dave Steckel would become(with the exception of Steve MacIntyre) the slowest skater on the Oilers roster. And remember that is a roster that includes Ryan Smyth.

Sorry Smytty.

Edit: Man I am slow in coming out with an original thought today. Better up my caffeine intake. "Truth" speaks the truth.

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#119 Lochenzo
September 23 2013, 11:44AM
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I betcha that Oilers' lockerroom feels better after the pickup of MacIntyre. That alone makes this a good move.

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#120 Romulus' Apotheosis
September 23 2013, 11:45AM
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DSF wrote:

When did I advocate for SMac?

The guy can't play hockey. At all.

Another dumb move by MacT in my opinion.

Setting that up as your straw man is not all that helpful.

Other more enlightened GM's have, instead placed an emphasis on team toughness and have been acquiring big, tough players who can play.

Despite what happened last night, the Leafs acquisition of David Clarkson is an excellent example of that.

MacT also apparently recognized Clarkson's value when trying to sign him in the offseason, but he failed and didn't produce an alternative while many existed in a the marketplace.

For example, Brendan Morrow signed with the Blues today for $1.5M.

Who do you think would add more value to the Oilers lineup this season...Morrow or Grebs, Larsen, Belov or Potter?

Is this a one-off or a conversation. Honest question?

If the latter, you should be able to discern that we are (and have been unless you suffer from some form of isolated amnesia) talking about the argument put forward by many, specifically here Struds, that having some kind of intimidation factor leads to real world results.

Those people need to back up their claims.

I never said you personally advocated for SMac. I said those people claiming x happens in the real world when y is present need to acknowledge that claim.

SMac is a huge blunder by MacT. On that we agree.

Clarkson was a huge blunder by MacT. On that we apparently disagree... though I'd wager in another context you'd acknowledge offering him a massive contract at his age and rate of production is a big mistake. The Leafs have a fine player, who is also eating too much cap hit and for too much term.

Morrow is too slow to do anything for this team. I'd happily take Larsen, Potter and Belov over him. Grebs... meh. toss-up.

Not sure why we are comparing D to Fs again though.

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#121 Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things
September 23 2013, 11:46AM
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Bill wrote:

Justice would be sidelining Kesler or one of the Sedins for a month or two.

That's not justice - just so you know.

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#122 2004Z06
September 23 2013, 11:47AM
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DSF wrote:

No one is disputing that having D depth is a good thing but given the organizational depth at the position adding Ference, Belov, Grebs, Larsen and Hunt while totalling ignoring C is not defensible.

Only an apogolist would call that a "blind spot".

It's dumb.

I often try to back up your point of view here as I think you generally provide a reasonable alternative perspective.

In this case you and several others continue to speak to Mac T's lack of addressing center depth as being "dumb".

Do you honestly believe that Mac T does not recognize the lack of depth especially after seeing what happened last year with injuries?

I don't care what Jim Nill did. It takes 2 to tango. I assume there were no trade partners and/or players did not want to come here. I.E Clarkson even after offered the big money.

I really do not think that a GM with Mac T's background would just "overlook" this item.

I suspect that plan B was to see what we had in the system after no other options were available with the intent of seeing what was available after teams finalized their rosters, or closer to the deadline.

You cannot turn over half of your roster in one summer anyways. No GM could.

Top flight physical, gritty centers and 1-2 D men do not grow on trees.

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#123 michael
September 23 2013, 11:48AM
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Romulus' Apotheosis wrote:

So, what is the fantasy here...

SMac is put on the ice against the Sedins.

If.. and this is a big if, he manages to catch up to one of them without the Oil getting scored on, he smashes one.

A Sedin is out for x amount of time.

SMac is suspended for x amount of time.

The Oilers don't improve having the Nucks lose a player. Probably lose the game. And now they are without their hulking beast.

You gain nothing other than violence and are back to square one.

RA. What impact has Ben Eager or Ryan Jones had on the lineup? Ryan Jones. Soft. Eager. Hard but lacks impact on the game consistently.

How do you see Smacks role on this team? A 82 game kinda guy? Not even close. He at best will be 20-25 game guy. 2-6 minutes a night. A guy who is known as a role player with whom the teams 6 million dollar men have a comfort level built in.

This is not about Smack scoring a single point on the season. Its about ensuring the team has a guy who will bring the hammer when needed to give space to those guys who need it.

Let Smack play his 2-6 minutes. Let Yak take the extra 4-5 minutes.

If I had my druthers I'll take Smack over RJ or BE. All day.Every Day.

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#124 2004Z06
September 23 2013, 11:49AM
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Oh and it was reported today that Morrow was courted by many teams. He chose to go to St.Louis. He didn't want to come here.

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#125 Michael
September 23 2013, 11:50AM
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Lochenzo wrote:

I betcha that Oilers' lockerroom feels better after the pickup of MacIntyre. That alone makes this a good move.

Ask Wayne Gretzky why he wanted Marty MCSorley with him in LA.

Hall and Ebs will giving Smack their All Star cars.

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#126 The Oilers Shot Clock
September 23 2013, 11:53AM
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I hope we get to revisit all these happy comments 3 months from now. I suspect a lot of you will remember MacIntyre sucks by then. He won't fight Kassian once this year.

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#127 DSF
September 23 2013, 11:53AM
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Dan Murphy ‏@sportsnetmurph 5m

Kassian on #oilers picking up MacIntyre as a deterrent, "Perfect. I don't think he can skate, that's the last thing on our mind."

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#128 Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things
September 23 2013, 11:54AM
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Michael wrote:

Ask Wayne Gretzky why he wanted Marty MCSorley with him in LA.

Hall and Ebs will giving Smack their All Star cars.

Those had better be Deloreans, because that argument belongs in the pre-1992 NHL.

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#129 Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things
September 23 2013, 11:54AM
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DSF wrote:

Dan Murphy ‏@sportsnetmurph 5m

Kassian on #oilers picking up MacIntyre as a deterrent, "Perfect. I don't think he can skate, that's the last thing on our mind."

KASSIAN WILL BE THINKING TWICE BEFORE TRYING THAT SHIZ AGAIN

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#130 Romulus' Apotheosis
September 23 2013, 12:01PM
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michael wrote:

RA. What impact has Ben Eager or Ryan Jones had on the lineup? Ryan Jones. Soft. Eager. Hard but lacks impact on the game consistently.

How do you see Smacks role on this team? A 82 game kinda guy? Not even close. He at best will be 20-25 game guy. 2-6 minutes a night. A guy who is known as a role player with whom the teams 6 million dollar men have a comfort level built in.

This is not about Smack scoring a single point on the season. Its about ensuring the team has a guy who will bring the hammer when needed to give space to those guys who need it.

Let Smack play his 2-6 minutes. Let Yak take the extra 4-5 minutes.

If I had my druthers I'll take Smack over RJ or BE. All day.Every Day.

If he's not even on the bench how is he deterring anything?

I want hockey players not facepunchers.

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#131 JJ
September 23 2013, 12:02PM
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Lines for tonight:

Omark - Gordon - Yakupov

Joensuu - Arcobello - Pitlick

Jones - Lander - Hamilton

Eager - Acton - Brown

Excellent. The swedish sensation is in tonight. One of his last chances to prove everyone wrong.

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#132 Smokey
September 23 2013, 12:02PM
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wazy08 wrote:

Where is Jody Shelley? Literally dress him for 30 games this season with the understanding that if someone gets looked at funny he knows his role. If someone pulls a Kassian on Gagner, that not only is Kassian responsible but perhaps the Sedins or Kesler are also held accountable for Kassian/Weises actions. The Oilers need to rock a Brown/Shelley type of players in their lineup. Tired of a soft team thats gonna keep having players injured because they dont stand up for themselves. I agree 100% with you Strudwick. PP's are nice, but what are you gonna do when your star PP players are all on LTR.

These types of arguments born outta watching Semenko in the 80's and the broad street bullies doesn't mean a nuclear detterant work today. It works only when a player can play actual shift with your skill lines. Guys like Bob Probert, Semenko, Chris Simon could actually play regular shifts. MacIntire, Hordichuk, Shelley play 3-6 minutes a night on a fourth line and are lucky to make it on the ice usually against other fourth liners.

A Brandon Prust or Hartnell are examples of guys who can play. There have gotten to be too few Darcy Tucker types who can play with skill and drop mitts with middling heavies. The Clutterbuck's and Cooke's don't ever fight the Big Mac's and would turtle in a millisecond. They know when the Boogeyman or Shelley's come over the boards and it never deters the cheep shots.

The instigator got rid of the effective Nuclear Deterrent. Steve Mac was useless cause he rarely could ever get to the cheep shot artists and was generally ineffective at playing eye for an eye. The Boogeyman was one example of a knuckle dragger who did not have the skill in most Senior Men's Leagues that was effective. The Boogeyman could skate enough to run ya, and chop ya, or knee ya. To me he was the one Nuclear deterrent that could deter cause he did not care who he went after, and was arswhole when he did. However Lemaire was smart enough to get him shifts on top lines from time to time, and the team was so sound defensively that he could run guys without costing the team the other way.

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#133 David S
September 23 2013, 12:05PM
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I'm just as p!ssed as everybody (who's sane) about MacT adding a useless facepuncher to the roster.

But you have to remember we have essentially ZERO cap space so SMac was the only realistic "grit" option as he only costs $625K. All you guys lobbying for an actual NHL'er who is tough as nails and can play need to think about how much that guy will cost - if he even wanted to come here or some team would be dumb enough to give up a guy like that.

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#134 DSF
September 23 2013, 12:05PM
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Romulus' Apotheosis wrote:

Is this a one-off or a conversation. Honest question?

If the latter, you should be able to discern that we are (and have been unless you suffer from some form of isolated amnesia) talking about the argument put forward by many, specifically here Struds, that having some kind of intimidation factor leads to real world results.

Those people need to back up their claims.

I never said you personally advocated for SMac. I said those people claiming x happens in the real world when y is present need to acknowledge that claim.

SMac is a huge blunder by MacT. On that we agree.

Clarkson was a huge blunder by MacT. On that we apparently disagree... though I'd wager in another context you'd acknowledge offering him a massive contract at his age and rate of production is a big mistake. The Leafs have a fine player, who is also eating too much cap hit and for too much term.

Morrow is too slow to do anything for this team. I'd happily take Larsen, Potter and Belov over him. Grebs... meh. toss-up.

Not sure why we are comparing D to Fs again though.

Why does an NHL player with 674 games to his credit have to "back up his claims" to you?

Thinking that physical intimidation has zero impact on results is not only counter intuitive but will be quickly refuted by anyone who has played competitive hockey, football or basketball.

That you can't measure it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

"Not all that can be measured, counts.

Not all that counts, can be measured."

- Albert Einstein

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#135 DieHard
September 23 2013, 12:07PM
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Just because MacT gets Smac from the wire doesn't mean he stays with the team. If another, better option becomes available, he'll try to grab him and waive Smac. MacT is just getting in the game that he needs to be in. We need an enforcer that can play (somewhat) and preferably a center.

No one will fight Smac except another superheavywight, so really what's the point. He's not fast enough to catch someone like a Sedin and that is the type that should be targeted. If the Oil manage to put a Sedin on the shelf for the season as payback, then maybe the league with do what it should do with these goons. 40 games for that ignorant stick swing and big fines to the Canucks.

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#136 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
September 23 2013, 12:09PM
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Romulus' Apotheosis wrote:

So, what is the fantasy here...

SMac is put on the ice against the Sedins.

If.. and this is a big if, he manages to catch up to one of them without the Oil getting scored on, he smashes one.

A Sedin is out for x amount of time.

SMac is suspended for x amount of time.

The Oilers don't improve having the Nucks lose a player. Probably lose the game. And now they are without their hulking beast.

You gain nothing other than violence and are back to square one.

Enough already....we get that you don't get it!

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#137 Rod from Viking
September 23 2013, 12:09PM
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Truth wrote:

He and Mac skate at about the same pace.

John Shannon made the statement on Oilers Now a while ago that David Steckle has easily the lowest hockey IQ of any one in the league, this probably why NO ONE has signed him.

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#138 The Soup Fascist
September 23 2013, 12:09PM
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DSF wrote:

Dan Murphy ‏@sportsnetmurph 5m

Kassian on #oilers picking up MacIntyre as a deterrent, "Perfect. I don't think he can skate, that's the last thing on our mind."

Kassian SHOULD have other things on his mind like missing (hopefully) 7 games or so and a couple of paycheques.

If it was "accidental" I would feel bad that I seriously injured another person, through my actions. Fat chance. A reckless move from a classless player. He is the perfect Canuck.

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#139 Romulus' Apotheosis
September 23 2013, 12:15PM
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DSF wrote:

Why does an NHL player with 674 games to his credit have to "back up his claims" to you?

Thinking that physical intimidation has zero impact on results is not only counter intuitive but will be quickly refuted by anyone who has played competitive hockey, football or basketball.

That you can't measure it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

"Not all that can be measured, counts.

Not all that counts, can be measured."

- Albert Einstein

Arguments from authority have limited value at best and are mostly fallacious.

No one should be concerned to have to back up their empirical claims. It is not an onerous request.

I don't recall saying anything resembling: "physical intimidation has zero impact on results."

I've said that "All one need do is watch hockey to understand that the crippling injuries suffered by freak accident or horrible goonery have nothing to do with whether the offending team/player concerns themselves/himself with the tough guys opposite."

Freak accidents and horrible goonery are remarkably ignorant of deterrents.

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#140 2004Z06
September 23 2013, 12:15PM
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Hey at least it may be a stop gap until a Colton Orr type of player comes available.

As for Kassian's comment. He is right, Macyntire's skating ability should be the furthest thing from his mind. Keeping that last tooth in his head however will be.

The only way this works is if Mac goes over the boards, grabs Kassian and pounds the crap out of him regardless of whether Kassian wants to go or not.

Take the instigator penalty, take the suspension. The rest of the league then knows that while it may not happen again, it CAN happen again. You only have to push the button once before people realize that you will if need be.

There is your nuclear deterrent.

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#141 Spydyr
September 23 2013, 12:17PM
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Hey DSF and Romulus' Apotheosis why don't you guys go rent a barn or something?

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#142 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
September 23 2013, 12:18PM
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Rod from Viking wrote:

John Shannon made the statement on Oilers Now a while ago that David Steckle has easily the lowest hockey IQ of any one in the league, this probably why NO ONE has signed him.

SARCASM ALERT.......

But Rod........that can't be true.....it can't be true because you can't measure it.

Non Sarcasm......it's a good example of the types of things that GMs know that we may not......

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#143 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
September 23 2013, 12:21PM
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Romulus' Apotheosis wrote:

Arguments from authority have limited value at best and are mostly fallacious.

No one should be concerned to have to back up their empirical claims. It is not an onerous request.

I don't recall saying anything resembling: "physical intimidation has zero impact on results."

I've said that "All one need do is watch hockey to understand that the crippling injuries suffered by freak accident or horrible goonery have nothing to do with whether the offending team/player concerns themselves/himself with the tough guys opposite."

Freak accidents and horrible goonery are remarkably ignorant of deterrents.

Seriously Rom....call it day on this one....you're rebuttals are getting weaker and it's getting difficult to stay respectful.

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#144 CaptainLander
September 23 2013, 12:23PM
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@Michael

McSorley was good for jumping in but also dirty enough for "eye for an eye". SMAC will never catch anyone but a similar player to himself. Pointless, unless players in the room just wan him there. The league is the only one that can really protect it's stars. A guy like Wiess will never care about hurting a star playing or whether he gets punch in the face a couple time for doing so. But for him it is a catch 22, if he doesn't headhunt he has no job. Until the league gets rid of this player al together how can you blame him for just doing his job. As for a solution? (maybe suspend the teams top point getter for the length of the suspension given to the goon)

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#145 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
September 23 2013, 12:23PM
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David S wrote:

I'm just as p!ssed as everybody (who's sane) about MacT adding a useless facepuncher to the roster.

But you have to remember we have essentially ZERO cap space so SMac was the only realistic "grit" option as he only costs $625K. All you guys lobbying for an actual NHL'er who is tough as nails and can play need to think about how much that guy will cost - if he even wanted to come here or some team would be dumb enough to give up a guy like that.

David....can you hold my coat for a minute.....

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#146 DSF
September 23 2013, 12:24PM
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@Romulus' Apotheosis

"Freak accidents and horrible goonery are remarkably ignorant of deterrents."

On that we can agree.

But the failure to respond to physical play has consequences that you cannot and will not ever be able to measure.

And yet you are still trying to use your high school logic classes to refute the knowledge of those with far more insight into the issue at hand.

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#147 james_dean
September 23 2013, 12:25PM
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Dear mac t

Proactive > reactionary

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#148 DieHard
September 23 2013, 12:25PM
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2004Z06 wrote:

I often try to back up your point of view here as I think you generally provide a reasonable alternative perspective.

In this case you and several others continue to speak to Mac T's lack of addressing center depth as being "dumb".

Do you honestly believe that Mac T does not recognize the lack of depth especially after seeing what happened last year with injuries?

I don't care what Jim Nill did. It takes 2 to tango. I assume there were no trade partners and/or players did not want to come here. I.E Clarkson even after offered the big money.

I really do not think that a GM with Mac T's background would just "overlook" this item.

I suspect that plan B was to see what we had in the system after no other options were available with the intent of seeing what was available after teams finalized their rosters, or closer to the deadline.

You cannot turn over half of your roster in one summer anyways. No GM could.

Top flight physical, gritty centers and 1-2 D men do not grow on trees.

You should have added. Good Grief.

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#149 DSF
September 23 2013, 12:29PM
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DieHard wrote:

You should have added. Good Grief.

Good grief.

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#150 Don W
September 23 2013, 12:35PM
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SAT, 12 APR 2014 - Vancouver better hope the Oilers have something to play for. Otherwise, I would suggest MacT acquire as many thugs as he can and play all of them that night.

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