Oscar Klefbom might be most valuable to the Edmonton Oilers as a trade chip

Jonathan Willis
January 02 2014 08:24AM

It sounds decidedly counterintuitive. The Oilers need defencemen, so why would they trade a big 20-year-old blue-liner with a range of skills just as he’s learning the North American professional game?

There are reasons why it may make sense.

Availability

The simple fact is that Edmonton desperately needs at least one top-pairing calibre defenceman. The modern incarnation of Chris Pronger would be the dream here, which is why Shea Weber’s name never dies, but that may not be possible and if it isn’t Edmonton has to fill the void somehow.

The names that might be available on the trade market are generally some distance south of Weber. Players like Christian Ehrhoff and Brian Campbell and Dustin Byfuglien are the ones people speculate about; good, useful defenders either underrated by their current teams or playing out the string on a roster miles away from contending.

All of those guys have some warts, but all of them would represent a massive upgrade for an Edmonton team leaning on the trio of Jeff Petry, Andrew Ference and Justin Schultz. If MacTavish can’t bring in a Pronger, he needs to find at least a Boris Mironov or Janne Niinimaa or Roman Hamrlik. And given the meagre free agent pickings available, odds are good he’ll have to do it via trade.

Perfect Storm

In this hypothetical trade for a good defenceman, Edmonton needs a package of certain quality to trade. It has to be good enough to get the other team interested. It has to be non-vital enough that it isn’t going to crush the team to lose it. And finally it needs to be fair value for the Oilers, a team that needs to put meat on the table for every shot they fire.

The 2014 first round draft pick might have fit those bills, but at this point the Oilers would need eight more points than they have just to get outside the top-five of the draft. It’s still a moveable piece, but the return on it needs to be something bigger than Mironov or Niinimaa and those returns are hard to land.

Some of the young forwards (Taylor Hall and Ryan Nugent-Hopkins) are too vital to make the list; the others (Jordan Eberle and Nail Yakupov) fall into the same boat as that 2014 pick, where the guy coming the other way needs to be a lot bigger than he’s likely to be. Sam Gagner’s tradable but opens up an ugly hole at centre, and the only plausible internal replacement has all of 32 career games under his belt.

What about Darnell Nurse? Team Canada may not be in love with him but he’s a 6’4” 18-year-old with a mean streak and a near point-per-game scoring run under his belt in junior this year. He’s not going to be good enough soon enough to plug the hole on defence himself, but he’s Edmonton’s best prospect by a country mile and a perfect fit for long-term need.

Which is where Klefbom comes in. He’s a good player, with that nice blend of skills and a combination of size and speed that’s awfully hard to find. He was a first round draft pick. So he has value. But at the same time, he’s also 27 games into his AHL career, 20 years old and a guy who barely played last season; he isn’t going to fix Edmonton’s blue line problems any time soon. He can move the puck but his offensive ability has a definite ceiling; he might evolve into a very, very good shutdown guy but that’s years away and not impossible to find. He’s a left-shooting defenceman on a team with Nurse, Martin Marincin, Martin Gernat, Brandon Davidson and Dillon Simpson, so the Oilers have both quality and depth at the position.

Put it all together and it’s hard not to wonder if Klefbom is moved at some point. He has enough value to be the key asset in return for a good NHL player, much like he was when Edmonton moved Dustin Penner out. His absence doesn’t hurt the Oilers now, and they have a wealth of prospects at the position. And while an excellent prospect he’s not the kind of player likely to embarrass the team by winning a Norris Trophy five years down the road.

Recently by Jonathan Willis

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Jonathan Willis is Managing Editor of the Nation Network. He also currently writes for the Edmonton Journal's Cult of Hockey, Grantland, and Hockey Prospectus. His work has appeared at theScore, ESPN and Puck Daddy. He was previously founder and managing editor of Copper & Blue. Contact him at jonathan (dot) willis (at) live (dot) ca.
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#101 PutzStew
January 02 2014, 01:50PM
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TigerUnderGlass wrote:

Weber aside, what makes you think a player like Hall or RNH needs to be moved to get a #1 defenseman?

They have been traded before, so why don't you take a second and look at what high end defenseman usually go for.

hint: It is NEVER players like Hall and RNH.

I agree that Weber is likely not on the table right now, but your apparent belief that everyone else is an idiot because they don't think it will cost Hall to get a top shelf defenseman is absurd.

The conversation does not involving a # 1 dman, it is involving Webber and Webber's value is going to be much higher then most number one Dmen.

Thinking you could steal Webber for anything less then one of Hall or RNH is absurd.

And no I don't think everyone is an idiot, just people thinking they are going to win a sweepstakes for Webber, using bit parts. If you read the comments I'm not the only one that thinks so.

Here something fun. Fnd some Nashville blog sites and offer them Eberle, Klefbom and this years first for Webber.

Let me know how you make out.

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#102 Serious Gord
January 02 2014, 01:52PM
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Wayne Reynolds wrote:

The quote regarding Sather hiring someone out of prison is the most discusting piece I have read on this site. Bringing up a regrettable incident from over thirty years ago is classless and ignorant. This should not exemplifily an Oiler fan #57 please go cheer for Calgary.

Why is it disgusting? It is 100% true. And it is a credit to both Sather and MacT what happened because Sather took a chance and MacT made the most of it - the number of people who are convicted and jailed for vehicular homicide and actually make something of their lives is very very few.

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#103 Sisyphus
January 02 2014, 02:03PM
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I see a lot of comments who seem to be rather more interested in staying the course, developing our prospects and picks, etc. Don't trade away our star assets for pieces now, just be patient.

And while I can understand this, I really can--because it will HURT to say goodbye to a quality piece or two to solve needs now--I think people miss the point. That if you DON'T do this now, you take the patient, slow-moving, build for the future approach, you may lose those stars anyways.

By the time our prospects, picks, etc. develop into (hopefully) top-notch NHL quality players, our core guys contracts will be coming up. Anyone here want to tell me they see Hall, or RNH, or Eberle, re-signing here if they've been in a crappy re-build, finishing last or close to it, for the last 5-6 years?

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#104 chuck biscuits
January 02 2014, 02:09PM
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Hi cynic!!!!

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#105 TigerUnderGlass
January 02 2014, 02:14PM
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PutzStew wrote:

The conversation does not involving a # 1 dman, it is involving Webber and Webber's value is going to be much higher then most number one Dmen.

Thinking you could steal Webber for anything less then one of Hall or RNH is absurd.

And no I don't think everyone is an idiot, just people thinking they are going to win a sweepstakes for Webber, using bit parts. If you read the comments I'm not the only one that thinks so.

Here something fun. Fnd some Nashville blog sites and offer them Eberle, Klefbom and this years first for Webber.

Let me know how you make out.

I take it then that you had no luck finding a trade like the one you are suggesting?

So essentially your position is that Weber would be the best defenseman ever traded in the NHL so if he was traded it would be like no other trade we have ever seen?

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#106 Walter Sobchak
January 02 2014, 02:14PM
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If I'm MacTavish Weber is really the only player I move at.

Weber instantly makes the defence better as a group & the Oilers players better. I doubt Campbell or Ehrhof would have the same effect overall on a team.

Both Ehrhof & Campbell are ultra butter soft payers who on good teams are 2-3 D-players much like Campbell in Chicago & Ehrhof in Vancouver, this doesn't help the Oilers.

The Oilers need to get bigger, meaner & better.

The Oilers need Weber almost as much for an identity as they need him to anchor a brutal defence & play 27 a night.

The other is term, whether you hate it or not Weber is locked up for a long time, his salary in three years won't look as bad as it does to some people now.

To me getting any other defensemen is just getting more of the same.

It's the intangible's that Weber brings that very few other can match, the respect he is given on the PP open up plays all over the ice. His aggressive play in the front is exactly what this team lacks, his PK work & ability to shut other teams top players down on a poor team.

I hate to speculate what it would take to get Weber, it might be high? It might be right down the Pronger type deal?

One thing is for certain, with J.Schultz you don't need another Ehrhof or Campbell

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#107 michael
January 02 2014, 02:17PM
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pkam wrote:

I know of 3 types of trades.

1st type is playoff teams trade their futures for immediate help to push for the playoff and the cup. Usually, you give up more in this kind of trade. Since we are not a playoff team so so I don't think we are looking at the 1st type of trade.

2nd type is exchange of garbage. Hopefully your garbage may work better than mine. I don't think this type of trade is going to help us but at least it will quiet some fans with new faces.

3rd type is two teams trade away their redundant strength to fill a hole of their own.

I know we have needs in at least one 1st pairing D, more likely 2. A big 2C, a starting goalie, bigger 3rd line winger, and a 4C. But where is our redundant strength?

The only position we may have some redundancy is top 2 RW in Eberle, Yak and Hemsky. But some suggests that Eberle has already reached his maximum potential, Yak is still a big gamble, and Hemsky has no more value and we should let him walk UFA. So even our deepest position is not that deep. If we have so many holes and no real redundancy, what does it mean?

Some suggest packaging RNH/Hall for Weber. So we fill the top D hole with a new hole in 1C or 1LW? How is this helping our team?

So how can we improve the team but filling one hole with another?

I don't know about you, IMO, we are not ready yet. No trade is going to fix the problem. If we can't lure UFA to come here, the only option we have is to be patient and fill up our cupboard first.

If we are to trade away our young core players for some immediately help to push for playoff, we will never have a team good enough for the cup. Isn't it what we we did prior to 2010?

This is exactly what we did. I agree with your reasoning. It reflects what I have been saying about drafting and developing.

I totally disagree with those who feel that making the playoffs is the goal. Yup we've seen where that path lead year after year. Losses to Dallas/Detroit/Colorado and so on.

Just getting there is and should not be the end all and be all. It should be about being competitive long term like those Sharks were playing tonight.

The experience factor is so huge. And what do our top 6 lack vs the top 6 teams in the WC. Experience. Teows and Kane are 4 years ahead of Hall and Ebs and RNH. Minimum.

Yup we should be their equal because we say so.Does not happen. Hall has made great strides as a player. But it takes more than Hall to win. It will take time and patience.

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#108 TigerUnderGlass
January 02 2014, 02:19PM
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@PutzStew

Philly was willing to give up 4 firsts they expected to be in the high 20s. This is a very different creature.

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#109 Spaceman Spiff
January 02 2014, 02:51PM
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MessyEH! wrote:

Please give examples of 1st overalls who went back to junior?

Mike Modano 23 years ago is the last example.

As for Yak playing in the KHL please explain how that was holding anything above anyone's head. The kid went to his home town to play. To play the Pro game.

Hmm…OK… I accept your challenge. I went as far back to 1980, because before that, the WHA and NHL were in such a battle for underage players that there were 18-year-olds playing professional hockey everywhere from Birmingham, Alabama to Edmonton, Ala-berta.

Admittedly, not all of these are “pure” examples, but that’s only because not everyone who was drafted No. 1 overall came from a Canadian junior team (and, thus, had different rules apply to them in terms of being sent down to the AHL).

So, here we go…

- JOE MURPHY (1986) played five games in his rookie season and 71 in the minors with Adirondack (1986-87). Yes, I know, that’s not “junior,” it’s minor pro. But Murphy was a college kid and he could be sent down to the minors.

- MATS SUNDIN (1989) didn’t make his debut until the fall of 1990. He stayed in Sweden for one more year after his draft year. Again, I know that’s not “junior,” but the point is, he didn’t make the big club straight off his draft year (1989) and did a developmental year back with his drafted team.

- ERIC LINDROS (1991), as we all remember, didn’t make his debut until a year after his draft year. In 1991-92, he played with his junior team in Oshawa, the Canadian national team (this was back when there was one), the Olympic team and the world junior team. Of course, he wasn’t “sent” down. He held out for a trade because that’s what Bonnie and Carl told him to do. But he actually got a pretty decent developmental year in junior and international hockey after he went first overall and before he turned pro.

- ED JOVANOWSKI (1994) went back to the Windsor Spitfires for another year (1994-95, which was a lockout half-year).

- BRYAN BERARD (1995), was sent back to junior after his draft year … which was a small miracle, given that, on the draft floor, he was traded to the Islanders, who traditionally rush picks to the NHL.

- CHRIS PHILLIPS (1996) played another full season in the WHL – in fact, he was traded from Prince Albert to Lethbridge about halfway through it.

- RICK DIPIETRO (2000) played 14 games in the minors in his rookie year, 59 in his second year, and 34 in his third year. Just like Joe Murphy, they could send him to the minors because he was a college kid, not a junior player.

- MARC-ANDRE FLEURY (2003) played 10 games in Cape Breton during his rookie year.

- ALEX OVECHKIN. Oveckin played in Russia for another year. OK, it was the lockout year (2004-05), but again, another case of a buffer year between his draft and his pro year.

- ERIK JOHNSON (2006) played his freshman year at the U of Minnesota after he was drafted from the U.S. Under-18 national development team.

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#110 Spydyr
January 02 2014, 02:56PM
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RexHolez wrote:

I think letting Yak play his game would help too

Unfortunately there are two ends in hockey.

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#111 Spydyr
January 02 2014, 03:01PM
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Wayne Reynolds wrote:

The quote regarding Sather hiring someone out of prison is the most discusting piece I have read on this site. Bringing up a regrettable incident from over thirty years ago is classless and ignorant. This should not exemplifily an Oiler fan #57 please go cheer for Calgary.

Some people cannot handle the truth.

Why would the truth be classless and ignorant?

It happened a human being sadly lost their life.Putting your head in the sand and ignoring it will not change that fact.Pretending it did not happen does not mean that it did not happen.

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#112 thefoz
January 02 2014, 03:03PM
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So what do you guys think a reasonable return for a package like this:

Eberle+Klefbom+2014 1st (with best shot at either of Ekblad or Reinhart or whoever else they're pimping by then)

I would think that could form the basis of a deal that might land a player of Subban's calibre. I love me some Shea Weber, but I would be targeting Subban before him given his current contract situation, his insane talent, and his age.

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#113 Spydyr
January 02 2014, 03:06PM
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thefoz wrote:

So what do you guys think a reasonable return for a package like this:

Eberle+Klefbom+2014 1st (with best shot at either of Ekblad or Reinhart or whoever else they're pimping by then)

I would think that could form the basis of a deal that might land a player of Subban's calibre. I love me some Shea Weber, but I would be targeting Subban before him given his current contract situation, his insane talent, and his age.

That is an over pay for Subban.

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#114 Spaceman Spiff
January 02 2014, 03:14PM
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Um… I think you folks might be over-estimating Shea Weber’s value a tad.

There are a lot of names being thrown around and it seems like most of you think it’ll take two of Hall, Nuge, Eberle, and J-Schultz, along with Klefbom and the No. 1 pick.

But I can quote some case-law that suggests that a deal for Weber could be done for less than that. And it’s a case involving another trade the Oilers made for adefenceman.

In the summer of 2005, the Oilers traded Eric Brewer, Doug Lynch and Jeff Woywitka for a 30-year-old Chris Pronger.

The Oilers got the league’s best defenceman for a decent No.3/4 defenceman, plus two mid-level prospects.

Yes, I know – the Oilers were taking advantage of some Blues’ cap troubles. But, upon closer examination, the Blues’ troubles weren’t actually that bad.

You’ll recall that, about five minutes after trading for Pronger, the Oilers signed him to a five-year contract worth $31.5 million US ($6.25 million US annually). But what is sometimes forgotten is that, before the trade, the Blues had tendered a qualifying offer to Pronger that would have paid him $7.22 million-per. Their problem was they also made similar offers to Keith Tkachuk and Doug Weight which would have meant that three players would have eaten up almost $20 million of their cap space (at the time, the cap was $39 million).

In other words, the Blues weren’t really in “cap trouble,” but more “cap-inconvenience.” It's my opinion that they could have lived with that arrangement and probably done OK ... but I'm not a GM, and whoever was at the time obviously thought that Pronger was worth one quality NHL rearguard and two middling defensive prospects in a cap-motivated trade.

I’d argue that the Predators could be in the same boat with Weber. And, I’d take it one step further and say that the Preds have a chance to do a better “hockey deal” than the Blues did eight years ago.

Last time I checked, the Preds score at a rate of one goal a week. Eberle plus Klefbom plus the No. 1 pick should just about do it. Honestly. These are the deals that get made nowadays.

Hall plus Nuge plus Klefbom plus the No. 1 pick? Don’t be silly, people. The Oilers didn’t get that for No. 99.

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#115 thefoz
January 02 2014, 03:18PM
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@Spydyr

Yeah it certainly might be - but it being an overpay doesn't necessarily mean it's not what the market is for that player. You think Eberle+1st would get it done?

I'd be inclined to agree that a lesser deal could be found if the Oilers were willing to wait until Subban's contract situation potentially deteriorated, but I think this is a package that would be hard to turn down and would make the Oilers significantly better immediately, and for the next 10 years.

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#116 thefoz
January 02 2014, 03:21PM
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@Spydyr

I'm also probably in the minority here, but all things equal, I think a 24 year old Subban might be a more valuable asset (assuming he can be signed for an $8x8MM type deal) than a 28 year old Weber signed for an AAV of $7.87MM until he's 40.

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#117 Spydyr
January 02 2014, 03:39PM
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thefoz wrote:

I'm also probably in the minority here, but all things equal, I think a 24 year old Subban might be a more valuable asset (assuming he can be signed for an $8x8MM type deal) than a 28 year old Weber signed for an AAV of $7.87MM until he's 40.

My choice would be Alex Pietrangelo 6 ft 3 in 205 lb signed for seven-years worth $45.5 million ($6.5 million per season)He is 23 fits right into the group age wise.I would trade anyone not named Hall or Nuge but good luck getting him .

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#118 Spydyr
January 02 2014, 03:49PM
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thefoz wrote:

Yeah it certainly might be - but it being an overpay doesn't necessarily mean it's not what the market is for that player. You think Eberle+1st would get it done?

I'd be inclined to agree that a lesser deal could be found if the Oilers were willing to wait until Subban's contract situation potentially deteriorated, but I think this is a package that would be hard to turn down and would make the Oilers significantly better immediately, and for the next 10 years.

It should but again I would not trade the first until I knew what it was.Ekblad may end up being a better player then Subban and you have given them Eberle also.

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#119 thefoz
January 02 2014, 03:51PM
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@Spydyr

I like Pietrangelo too but I think Subban is more of a complete player. The extra $1.5MM per in cap space would be nice though, but I think he'd be a harder get because of that cap-friendly deal.

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#120 Spydyr
January 02 2014, 03:54PM
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thefoz wrote:

I like Pietrangelo too but I think Subban is more of a complete player. The extra $1.5MM per in cap space would be nice though, but I think he'd be a harder get because of that cap-friendly deal.

Funny, I think Pietrangelo is the more complete player.Subban is to much a me guy for my liking.Also to much of a hot dog but to each their own.

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#121 Ryan2
January 02 2014, 03:56PM
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A-Mc wrote:

Sorry, you weren't going to get a #1/2 Dman for Magnus PRV.

If anyone was given the option of trading PRV for a #1/2 Dman OR Perron, it's a no brainer to take the Dman. That option wasn't presented because there's no way PRV was part of a trade for that calibre of player.

Perron was a steal and we were lucky to get that. The only reason we did was because of STL's money situation.

Sorry if it sounded that way, but I did not mean to insinuate that MPS would get us a #1/#2. He is worth a #5 at best alone. No one is giving us a #1 unless Hall, Ebs or Nuge are in the mix.

What I was trying to say is that he was a an expendable asset and trading chip of value that could have been used in a package to land one. Instead, MacT wasted one of the few tradeable assets with value that he had for a player that does not noticeably improve the team.

Perron can score and plays with a bit of an edge (he picks his spots), but his skill set is redundant. As a second line forward his ability to make the team better is limited (his defensive lapses are common as well which is why Hitchcock was eager to deal him), but a true #2 d-man, let alone a #1, would have. Now, if MacT had sweetened the pot with MPS + pick (2nd or 3rd round)/prospect and taken a top 4 d-man in return from St. Louis then it would have been a good trade.

Building a team means filling all the holes in your roster, not just trading for the BPA with a redundant skill set. MacT won the Perron for MPS trade in the short term, but it did not improve the team as much as #2 d-man would have. Maybe he can package Perron + young gun + pick(s)/prospect(s) into a #1 or #2, but if not then it was a waste of an asset (just like Smid for a 6th round pick to clear phantom cap space.......).

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#122 thefoz
January 02 2014, 04:06PM
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@Spydyr

To be honest, I don't watch enough of either player to make a truly informed opinion, but by the numbers Subban is more impressive in all three game states, and the MTL blog circuit has pretty much nothing but heaping praise for him while casting aside opinions about his character as being uninformed.

I'm not saying you are, but that narrative just doesn't seem to jive with what smarter people than me usually say about him. What kind of stuff have you seen/read that makes you think that way about him anyway?

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#123 thefoz
January 02 2014, 04:07PM
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Spydyr wrote:

It should but again I would not trade the first until I knew what it was.Ekblad may end up being a better player then Subban and you have given them Eberle also.

As for this part:

He may, he may also end up being a bust. Subban is a Norris winner with a proven record of excellence for going on three seasons now. He's the real deal, and the Oilers need a few more of those and a few less 'could be great's' in the organization at this time.

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#124 Spydyr
January 02 2014, 04:11PM
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thefoz wrote:

To be honest, I don't watch enough of either player to make a truly informed opinion, but by the numbers Subban is more impressive in all three game states, and the MTL blog circuit has pretty much nothing but heaping praise for him while casting aside opinions about his character as being uninformed.

I'm not saying you are, but that narrative just doesn't seem to jive with what smarter people than me usually say about him. What kind of stuff have you seen/read that makes you think that way about him anyway?

I seen highlights of him doing some things in previous years that make him look like a me player. His extended contract battles lean that way too.

Like you I have not seen either player a whole bunch but what I do know is most experts have Pietrangelo as a lock for the Olympic team and Subban is on the bubble.

That shows people with higher a hockey IQ and more information then us think Pietrangelo is the better player.

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#125 Spydyr
January 02 2014, 04:14PM
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thefoz wrote:

As for this part:

He may, he may also end up being a bust. Subban is a Norris winner with a proven record of excellence for going on three seasons now. He's the real deal, and the Oilers need a few more of those and a few less 'could be great's' in the organization at this time.

IMO Subban was not the best defencemen last year Suter was my guy.The Olympic player committee may agree if they leave him off team Canada.

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#126 Rod from Viking
January 02 2014, 04:14PM
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Jonathan Willis wrote:

Hedican.

I'm mostly just kidding but felt it had to be said.

That's a good one, plus Mike Commodore, Aron Ward and an aging Glen Wesley, Cam Ward made up for their average defense. Johnathan, if he isn't traded for Weber, Subban or Duncan Keith by the deadline won't Klefbom be called up to replace a traded veteran like Nick Schultz and the team and fans will get a good look at him.

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#127 15w40
January 02 2014, 04:16PM
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Eberle & the 2014 1st should be enough to get the conversation started on Weber. Right now I don't think there is any urgency to get anything done before the draft - the playoffs are gone.

I still believe the preference is to try and get Yakupov to play good hockey and trade him not Eberle.

Nashville may not want to go down that road with a Russian player again though. Weber is a long shot to complete a transaction I think but I think Poile would listen.

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#128 thefoz
January 02 2014, 04:21PM
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@Spydyr

Those same experts with higher hockey IQs than us tried to, and did, pay David Clarkson almost $7MM per annum to play hockey. David Clarkson. I'm not going to hang my hat on anything anyone of those mouthpieces who are paid to spout off has to say.

I'm no expert, far from it, but I'm fairly satisfied with my opinion about PK and how I got there. Using the same criteria, Pietrangelo is below him in almost every way.

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#129 Spydyr
January 02 2014, 04:23PM
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15w40 wrote:

Eberle & the 2014 1st should be enough to get the conversation started on Weber. Right now I don't think there is any urgency to get anything done before the draft - the playoffs are gone.

I still believe the preference is to try and get Yakupov to play good hockey and trade him not Eberle.

Nashville may not want to go down that road with a Russian player again though. Weber is a long shot to complete a transaction I think but I think Poile would listen.

You do understand if they let Weber go to Philadelphia the would have received four first-round draft picks. They also payed Weber many millions in bonus.

Now even if they wanted to trade him after all that the Oilers would be bidding against every other team for his services.

Eberle & the 2014 1st would get the phone hung up on you.

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#130 Spydyr
January 02 2014, 04:25PM
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thefoz wrote:

Those same experts with higher hockey IQs than us tried to, and did, pay David Clarkson almost $7MM per annum to play hockey. David Clarkson. I'm not going to hang my hat on anything anyone of those mouthpieces who are paid to spout off has to say.

I'm no expert, far from it, but I'm fairly satisfied with my opinion about PK and how I got there. Using the same criteria, Pietrangelo is below him in almost every way.

You can't compare a free agent signing to a trade scenario. Teams over pay for free agents because they don't have to give up assets.

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#131 thefoz
January 02 2014, 04:27PM
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@Spydyr

Not my intent to compare anything, but to provide an example of how 'smart' these so-called 'experts' can be sometimes.

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#132 RexHolez
January 02 2014, 04:32PM
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Spydyr wrote:

Unfortunately there are two ends in hockey.

Sometimes you gotta just accept the Ovechkins of the world. He's not gonna be a strong 2way player. All were doing is lowering his value, taking away his passion and turning this into a soap opera.

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#133 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
January 02 2014, 04:35PM
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oilerjed wrote:

@JW, My question for a big trade to happen is WHEN? Ive said it before and Ill say it again, sooner is better if this team wants to gain some momentum to start next season. I hate the thought of another summer of a few tweaks and then letting it roll. Why not get it started today, most teams we are talking about already know the score on these players too.

In your opinion is MacT working it now or is he bidng his time until the trade deadline and draft. I hope not.

There have been reports from credible sources that MacT and his team have been communicating with pretty much every team in the league for many weeks now. On the one hand they should be prepared for the deadline. On the other hand, GMs in today's league seem to like the confidence they get by waiting for the deadline. They get to see what market value looks like....they get to peruse the players they want in order of priority, they get to save a few bucks in salary by not buying until the last minute, etc.....and the sellers perceive their leverage to be highest right at the deadline.....so lots of forces at play to make an early trade less likely.

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#134 Wayne Reynolds
January 02 2014, 04:36PM
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The reason I find spyors quote discusting has nothing to do with whether it is true or not. It really has nothing to do with hockey. It is a cowardly comment hiding behind a pen name. I would let you wouldn't,t say that to MacT,s face

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#135 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
January 02 2014, 04:40PM
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Jonathan Willis wrote:

We don't actually know Winnipeg has any interest in moving him; it seems possible given the state of the organization, the warts on the player, and the angry columns in the local paper but it's all speculation.

I would take Byfuglien in a heartbeat......but I don't think he's what the Oilers mgt is looking for....too tough, too much of a rebel for their tastes and eats too many doughnuts.......for Oilers mgt it's Penner and Souray all over again....and they don't like, and can't seem to manage,outspoken players who go against the grain......unfortunately ...

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#136 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
January 02 2014, 04:52PM
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Serious Gord wrote:

In light of the Gleason trade and the Phaneuf and ference signings I think it's fair to say that the position that is undergoing the highest appreciation rate is the seasoned top four defenseman. (ference isn't even a solid top four and he got paid pretty big dough for being a 4-5 player)

That teams who lack strength in said top 1-4 players are all struggling in the standings justifies the rapid inflation rate and that is exacerbated by the looming big jump in cap room.

That begets two things:

1. Getting a player of the quality EDM needs cannot be done via Free agency - no potential candidate is coming of their own free will to a team that has so many non-monetary liabilities.

2. It is going to take some stones on MacT's part to consummate a deal as he will have to give up assets and take on cap commitments that will be viewed by the vast majority of oil fans as being a massive overpay. MacT has already shown a chronic tendency to overvalue the assets he has or knows - gagner, grebs and many many others - so I doubt he is prepared to take the plunge unless its prospects like klefbom or perhaps a player who is at odds with management (yak). And the latter has happened several times before so i suspect it may happen again.

And, while there is some merit to making a move at the deadline - motivated trade partners, time during this season to acclimatize the team and get a better start next year - i think it would be a big mistake.

Like it or not tanking for the rest of the season should be the goal - sadly the only advantage to having a disastrous season - the remainder of the year. to play their way out of a top five pick - a pick that could get that high-end defenseman or some other desperately needed asset would be a silly, face-saving gesture that goes against the long-term interests of the team.

That and the fact that there will be many more options available in the off-season than there will be at the trade deadline.

I think MacT is prepared to overpay and I don't think he thinks he can afford to let any opportunity go untapped.....I believe he will be in the thick of things at the deadline in both directions....moving players out and moving players in......of course many other teams will be trying to outbid him...we'll see if the prep work he's doing now pays off or not.

It's almost certain that the majority of Oilers fans will not be happy with the overpays....but it will take an overpay to make anything significant happen in our favour.

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#137 Dangilitis
January 02 2014, 05:02PM
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Who would you package with Klefbom, Jonathan? Nick Schultz? Or would you throw in more D prospects (we have a lot of them)?

And who would you target?

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#138 Andrew
January 02 2014, 05:06PM
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Stupidest proposed trade EVER!! That's why it will likely happen. If any other NHL team owned Klefbom it would not even be considered. This disfunctional and incompetent management are just liiable to do it.

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#139 Harry
January 02 2014, 06:45PM
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Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Um… I think you folks might be over-estimating Shea Weber’s value a tad.

There are a lot of names being thrown around and it seems like most of you think it’ll take two of Hall, Nuge, Eberle, and J-Schultz, along with Klefbom and the No. 1 pick.

But I can quote some case-law that suggests that a deal for Weber could be done for less than that. And it’s a case involving another trade the Oilers made for adefenceman.

In the summer of 2005, the Oilers traded Eric Brewer, Doug Lynch and Jeff Woywitka for a 30-year-old Chris Pronger.

The Oilers got the league’s best defenceman for a decent No.3/4 defenceman, plus two mid-level prospects.

Yes, I know – the Oilers were taking advantage of some Blues’ cap troubles. But, upon closer examination, the Blues’ troubles weren’t actually that bad.

You’ll recall that, about five minutes after trading for Pronger, the Oilers signed him to a five-year contract worth $31.5 million US ($6.25 million US annually). But what is sometimes forgotten is that, before the trade, the Blues had tendered a qualifying offer to Pronger that would have paid him $7.22 million-per. Their problem was they also made similar offers to Keith Tkachuk and Doug Weight which would have meant that three players would have eaten up almost $20 million of their cap space (at the time, the cap was $39 million).

In other words, the Blues weren’t really in “cap trouble,” but more “cap-inconvenience.” It's my opinion that they could have lived with that arrangement and probably done OK ... but I'm not a GM, and whoever was at the time obviously thought that Pronger was worth one quality NHL rearguard and two middling defensive prospects in a cap-motivated trade.

I’d argue that the Predators could be in the same boat with Weber. And, I’d take it one step further and say that the Preds have a chance to do a better “hockey deal” than the Blues did eight years ago.

Last time I checked, the Preds score at a rate of one goal a week. Eberle plus Klefbom plus the No. 1 pick should just about do it. Honestly. These are the deals that get made nowadays.

Hall plus Nuge plus Klefbom plus the No. 1 pick? Don’t be silly, people. The Oilers didn’t get that for No. 99.

Eberle/Yakupov, Klef and our 2014 1st for wither Weber or Subban. Over payment or not it would instantly make Edm much better

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#140 Oilerz4life
January 02 2014, 08:57PM
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^To many people writing essays. 11 paragraphs is 10 paragraphs to many.

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#141 voom04
January 02 2014, 09:46PM
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its like the phil colins song throwin it all away, just start getting the team close to respectability and everybody wants to throw it all away!! go figure

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#142 pelhem grenville
January 02 2014, 09:50PM
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Rick Stroppel wrote:

MACTAVISH THE RIVERBOAT GAMBLER

I would love to play cards with MacTavish. He would probably say things like "this hand is crappy, I am probably going to fold" or "man, this is a great hand, you would be foolish to bet against me!".

Consider his recent statements. "We are getting rid of Horcoff and Hemsky, we don't want them anymore". That is like going to the used car lot and saying "this car of mine is a piece of junk, I would take anything if you would just take it off my hands".

Or "we are building around a core of 8 or 9 or 10 players". Oh yeah? Are Dubnyk, Justin Schultz and Gagner on that 'protected list'? The 'for sale' should be hung (privately) on every player except Hall and RNH.

And "we will probably trade our first round pick, no matter how high it is". Wouldn't it be better to say "this is a fantastic draft year, if anyone wants that pick they better come with a very special offer". If MacTavish was an NFL GM, I think he would have made Tim Tebow the number one overall pick.

Seriously. This team is at a crossroads, BIG TIME. The next big trade may be the the most important one of the last 25 years. For the sake of the team, I hope he gets it right.

...dammit man who's in the trade?!!!

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#143 Spydyr
January 02 2014, 10:15PM
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Wayne Reynolds wrote:

The reason I find spyors quote discusting has nothing to do with whether it is true or not. It really has nothing to do with hockey. It is a cowardly comment hiding behind a pen name. I would let you wouldn't,t say that to MacT,s face

First off look up how to copy and paste.That way you can spell peoples handles properly.

Second off you know nothing about me.

Third off the comment was brought up in context to Sather taking chances on reclamation projects.That has to do with hockey.

Finally your quote "I would let you wouldn't,t say that to MacT,s face"

I believe you mean I bet you wouldn't say that to Mac-T's face.

I would not unless it came up in the conversation.Say like talking about second chances.One would hope he wishes he could change that day and thinks about it often.

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#144 Harry
January 02 2014, 10:35PM
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A-Mc wrote:

You're blurring the lines between the different perspectives on the team.

From the Players perspective, you're right, losing CAN'T be the mandate. But from the GM's perspective (Serious Gord's position) getting the highest draft pick possible is best if you're going to suck anyway.

You're using insulting words by calling him a complete idiot and then you're arguing a position that is from a perspective NOT related to personnel acquisition.

The Subject matter of the original article suggests that we are to put our GM thinking caps on so please drop the crap about player mentality.

If you.are a gm whos team has finished in the bottom of the standings 5years running and your still.saying we should lose more and more and more that is what constitutes a complete idiot.

Arent you sick of losing?

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#145 Jamie E
January 03 2014, 12:18AM
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I'm not an Edmonton fan but I was perusing this comment thread out of general interest.

All of you are criminally underrating Ehrhoff. His numbers in Vancouver were terrific. He was the straw that stirred the best power play in hockey. His numbers in Buffalo have been nothing short of remarkable given how horrible that team is. He is a possession, play driving monster.

Preferring Byfuglien over him is just plain wrong. And crazy and silly.

Your solution to your problem on D is a defenseman who isn't good at defence?

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#146 john
January 03 2014, 02:03AM
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Why everybody want Weber so much? Nashville is not in a playoff spot with Weber on the team, having a good Dman but the rest of the team don't play defense will not win you games. With Pronger we didn't win game 7 of Cup Finals in 2006. Stop being stupid and wake up all of you. This team will get better just be patient and bring in some bigger players in. An experienced coach will do too, instead of this AHL coach in training.

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#147 Rdubb
January 03 2014, 06:10AM
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Question for you Gregor; We (Oiler fans & media alike) run down the Oilers defense, almost daily these days, so why doesn't MacT bring up more of these guys from OKC and see what they can do in the NHL? Some guys who are average minor leaguers, to above average minor leaguers can turn out to be very good guys @ the top level of their profession. Look @ Nascar for one, Jimmy Johnson was less than an average driver in the Nationwide series but turned out to be the greatest driver of this generation in Nascars main series. I am also positive that you could find SEVERAL NHL'ers who are in the same boat (the only problem is that I cannot think of any off hand, mostly because I have never really followed the AHL, sorry, & I do not really know how to find these stats so quickly to put into here), & for a guy who follows the AHL like yourself, you most likely can put some names in here... So, why not give 2 or 3 or even 4 of these a chance, perhaps all @ once and see how they do. They few times some of them have been called up they have done extremely well in their game or two stint, so let's give them an extended look. The season's a loss anyway, so why not see what we have coming up? Greb's (although in OKC last I knew), Belov, N.Schultz can all sit, as should J.Schultz for all his costly turnovers and mistakes, it'd do him some good to sit & watch for a while anyway. Even Petry could take a seat for a game or two. Really, Ference is the only guy who we cannot afford to sit @ this time... What are your thoughts Gregor?

Peck

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#148 Ryan Smyth's Old Wooden Stick
January 03 2014, 06:14AM
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Since we're throwing around trade ideas, this one just may be crazy enough to work! Call up Glen Sather and send him Gagner along with a DVD of his 8 point game, Nick Schultz and one of our prospects and we get back Brad Richards and one of their young defenseman (DelZotto maybe). We keep half of Gagner's and Schultz's salary this year, the Rangers keep half of Richard's this year.

Rangers need cap space this year and going forward, get a 2C back, a UFA defenseman to replace who they traded and a prospect to even things out. We get a good defensive centre to teach the kids the 200 foot game that has some offense, an upgrade on defense moving the puck and take some salary cap crunch off the Rangers and save them a buyout.

Thoughts?

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#149 Neal
January 03 2014, 11:49AM
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I must say I'm astonished at how many posters do not seem to realize that it takes another GM to agree to make a trade.

And that all the other GM's are fully aware of what our players are worth. And also fully aware of the pressure Mac is under to get something done.

Mac is the carcass and the other GM's are the vultures.

Bold can turn into Stupid pretty fast. I think we should be realizing an elephant this big ain't gonna be eaten in one or two gulps...

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#150 Casey
January 03 2014, 12:32PM
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I've said this since last season. Klefbom won't be traded. Management sent him here all the way from Europe(yes MacT was with us. They made him a normal occurrence in the dressing room, he met the whole team,all of management, and even some fans. They clearly see him in our future. If they trade a defensive prospect it will most certainly be Marty Marincin(as much as I hate it)

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