Oscar Klefbom might be most valuable to the Edmonton Oilers as a trade chip

Jonathan Willis
January 02 2014 08:24AM

It sounds decidedly counterintuitive. The Oilers need defencemen, so why would they trade a big 20-year-old blue-liner with a range of skills just as he’s learning the North American professional game?

There are reasons why it may make sense.

Availability

The simple fact is that Edmonton desperately needs at least one top-pairing calibre defenceman. The modern incarnation of Chris Pronger would be the dream here, which is why Shea Weber’s name never dies, but that may not be possible and if it isn’t Edmonton has to fill the void somehow.

The names that might be available on the trade market are generally some distance south of Weber. Players like Christian Ehrhoff and Brian Campbell and Dustin Byfuglien are the ones people speculate about; good, useful defenders either underrated by their current teams or playing out the string on a roster miles away from contending.

All of those guys have some warts, but all of them would represent a massive upgrade for an Edmonton team leaning on the trio of Jeff Petry, Andrew Ference and Justin Schultz. If MacTavish can’t bring in a Pronger, he needs to find at least a Boris Mironov or Janne Niinimaa or Roman Hamrlik. And given the meagre free agent pickings available, odds are good he’ll have to do it via trade.

Perfect Storm

In this hypothetical trade for a good defenceman, Edmonton needs a package of certain quality to trade. It has to be good enough to get the other team interested. It has to be non-vital enough that it isn’t going to crush the team to lose it. And finally it needs to be fair value for the Oilers, a team that needs to put meat on the table for every shot they fire.

The 2014 first round draft pick might have fit those bills, but at this point the Oilers would need eight more points than they have just to get outside the top-five of the draft. It’s still a moveable piece, but the return on it needs to be something bigger than Mironov or Niinimaa and those returns are hard to land.

Some of the young forwards (Taylor Hall and Ryan Nugent-Hopkins) are too vital to make the list; the others (Jordan Eberle and Nail Yakupov) fall into the same boat as that 2014 pick, where the guy coming the other way needs to be a lot bigger than he’s likely to be. Sam Gagner’s tradable but opens up an ugly hole at centre, and the only plausible internal replacement has all of 32 career games under his belt.

What about Darnell Nurse? Team Canada may not be in love with him but he’s a 6’4” 18-year-old with a mean streak and a near point-per-game scoring run under his belt in junior this year. He’s not going to be good enough soon enough to plug the hole on defence himself, but he’s Edmonton’s best prospect by a country mile and a perfect fit for long-term need.

Which is where Klefbom comes in. He’s a good player, with that nice blend of skills and a combination of size and speed that’s awfully hard to find. He was a first round draft pick. So he has value. But at the same time, he’s also 27 games into his AHL career, 20 years old and a guy who barely played last season; he isn’t going to fix Edmonton’s blue line problems any time soon. He can move the puck but his offensive ability has a definite ceiling; he might evolve into a very, very good shutdown guy but that’s years away and not impossible to find. He’s a left-shooting defenceman on a team with Nurse, Martin Marincin, Martin Gernat, Brandon Davidson and Dillon Simpson, so the Oilers have both quality and depth at the position.

Put it all together and it’s hard not to wonder if Klefbom is moved at some point. He has enough value to be the key asset in return for a good NHL player, much like he was when Edmonton moved Dustin Penner out. His absence doesn’t hurt the Oilers now, and they have a wealth of prospects at the position. And while an excellent prospect he’s not the kind of player likely to embarrass the team by winning a Norris Trophy five years down the road.

Recently by Jonathan Willis

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Jonathan Willis is a freelance writer. He currently works for Oilers Nation, Sportsnet, the Edmonton Journal and Bleacher Report. He's co-written three books and worked for myriad websites, including Grantland, ESPN, The Score, and Hockey Prospectus. He was previously the founder and managing editor of Copper & Blue.
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#51 Spydyr
January 02 2014, 03:01PM
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Wayne Reynolds wrote:

The quote regarding Sather hiring someone out of prison is the most discusting piece I have read on this site. Bringing up a regrettable incident from over thirty years ago is classless and ignorant. This should not exemplifily an Oiler fan #57 please go cheer for Calgary.

Some people cannot handle the truth.

Why would the truth be classless and ignorant?

It happened a human being sadly lost their life.Putting your head in the sand and ignoring it will not change that fact.Pretending it did not happen does not mean that it did not happen.

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#52 thefoz
January 02 2014, 03:21PM
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@Spydyr

I'm also probably in the minority here, but all things equal, I think a 24 year old Subban might be a more valuable asset (assuming he can be signed for an $8x8MM type deal) than a 28 year old Weber signed for an AAV of $7.87MM until he's 40.

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#53 Spydyr
January 02 2014, 03:49PM
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thefoz wrote:

Yeah it certainly might be - but it being an overpay doesn't necessarily mean it's not what the market is for that player. You think Eberle+1st would get it done?

I'd be inclined to agree that a lesser deal could be found if the Oilers were willing to wait until Subban's contract situation potentially deteriorated, but I think this is a package that would be hard to turn down and would make the Oilers significantly better immediately, and for the next 10 years.

It should but again I would not trade the first until I knew what it was.Ekblad may end up being a better player then Subban and you have given them Eberle also.

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#54 thefoz
January 02 2014, 04:07PM
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Spydyr wrote:

It should but again I would not trade the first until I knew what it was.Ekblad may end up being a better player then Subban and you have given them Eberle also.

As for this part:

He may, he may also end up being a bust. Subban is a Norris winner with a proven record of excellence for going on three seasons now. He's the real deal, and the Oilers need a few more of those and a few less 'could be great's' in the organization at this time.

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#55 Spydyr
January 02 2014, 04:11PM
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thefoz wrote:

To be honest, I don't watch enough of either player to make a truly informed opinion, but by the numbers Subban is more impressive in all three game states, and the MTL blog circuit has pretty much nothing but heaping praise for him while casting aside opinions about his character as being uninformed.

I'm not saying you are, but that narrative just doesn't seem to jive with what smarter people than me usually say about him. What kind of stuff have you seen/read that makes you think that way about him anyway?

I seen highlights of him doing some things in previous years that make him look like a me player. His extended contract battles lean that way too.

Like you I have not seen either player a whole bunch but what I do know is most experts have Pietrangelo as a lock for the Olympic team and Subban is on the bubble.

That shows people with higher a hockey IQ and more information then us think Pietrangelo is the better player.

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#56 Oilerz4life
January 02 2014, 08:57PM
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^To many people writing essays. 11 paragraphs is 10 paragraphs to many.

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#57 Chet134
January 02 2014, 10:28AM
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U can't trade Nug or hall. If we have a chance to draft Ekblad it's a no brainier. The kid is a stud. Imagine having weber, nurse, Ekblad, Schultz, petry, ?. Much improved D.

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#58 John Chambers
January 02 2014, 10:37AM
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Jonathan Willis wrote:

We don't actually know Winnipeg has any interest in moving him; it seems possible given the state of the organization, the warts on the player, and the angry columns in the local paper but it's all speculation.

Byfuglien is the guy I would target instead of Ehrhoff because he has both offensive abilities as well as size and nastiness that this team hasn't had since Souray.

Although Ehrhoff's contract is a bargain, and worth trading for in and of itself.

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#59 Lloyd B.
January 02 2014, 10:54AM
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Teams that are competing for the post season or adding a missing piece or two for a cup run will not be trading actual NHL players at the deadline. MacT. will likely trade some pieces on the edge, aka N. Schultz, and others to stock pile draft picks which he will then turn into real NHL players as part of a package at the draft. Only way it works to maximize value of the assets. Flipping it around and trading picks for assets at the TD is what contenders do. We're not there.

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#60 mr common sense
January 02 2014, 11:01AM
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I think Buffalo would take Gagner for Steve Ott straight and if Im MacT, I do that in 1.5 seconds. Ott, a ufa, becomes the C to monitor Thornton, Getz and the other big C's in our division.

Next, do whatever the heck is necessary to land Webber, I think Eberle/Klefbom will do it.

Once you have Webber, then I honestly think we use J. Schultz as an asset to move out for a golden C....im thinking, J. Shultz/Alice/#2 for Coutourier/Simmonds

so we have added:

Ott, Webber, Coutourier and Simmonds and we delete gagner, alice, eberle, kelfbom....now that is frickin bold and our team is meteorically better.

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#61 Sal-Sational
January 02 2014, 11:14AM
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With his contract @ $6M i think Jordan Eberle should be the kid used as trade Bait. Sam Gagner Needs to go but the problem is he's got no trade Value.

These are the Guys id Try to Target Next summer:

Centers Joe Thorton 34(2nd Line Center), David Bolland 27 (2nd Line Center)Boyle Brian 29(4th Line Center)

Defencemen: Dan Girardi 29 making around $3.5M Andrej Meszaros 28 making $4.00M Andrei Markov 35 making 5.75M

LW: Dustin Penner 31 making $2M Matt Moulson 30 Making $3.3M

RW: Ryan Callahan 28 Making $4.275M Jarome Iginla 36 Making $6M

Goalies: Jaroslav Halak, 28 making $3.7M Jonas Hiller, 31 Making $4.5M Ryan Miller , 33 Making $6.250M (but he wouldnt sign here)

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#62 Harry
January 02 2014, 11:15AM
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Serious Gord wrote:

In light of the Gleason trade and the Phaneuf and ference signings I think it's fair to say that the position that is undergoing the highest appreciation rate is the seasoned top four defenseman. (ference isn't even a solid top four and he got paid pretty big dough for being a 4-5 player)

That teams who lack strength in said top 1-4 players are all struggling in the standings justifies the rapid inflation rate and that is exacerbated by the looming big jump in cap room.

That begets two things:

1. Getting a player of the quality EDM needs cannot be done via Free agency - no potential candidate is coming of their own free will to a team that has so many non-monetary liabilities.

2. It is going to take some stones on MacT's part to consummate a deal as he will have to give up assets and take on cap commitments that will be viewed by the vast majority of oil fans as being a massive overpay. MacT has already shown a chronic tendency to overvalue the assets he has or knows - gagner, grebs and many many others - so I doubt he is prepared to take the plunge unless its prospects like klefbom or perhaps a player who is at odds with management (yak). And the latter has happened several times before so i suspect it may happen again.

And, while there is some merit to making a move at the deadline - motivated trade partners, time during this season to acclimatize the team and get a better start next year - i think it would be a big mistake.

Like it or not tanking for the rest of the season should be the goal - sadly the only advantage to having a disastrous season - the remainder of the year. to play their way out of a top five pick - a pick that could get that high-end defenseman or some other desperately needed asset would be a silly, face-saving gesture that goes against the long-term interests of the team.

That and the fact that there will be many more options available in the off-season than there will be at the trade deadline.

Your a complete idiot.

You think these guys need MORE losing!? Tanking on purpose for the sake of a draft pick is 100% loser talk. Try and tell the to Hall or Eakins.

Further more you say Mac's signings have been questionable. How good are Hall and RNH and hopefully Ebs going to look at 6 mil when the cap is approaching 80mill in 3-4 years?

I dont fully put the blame on yourself however for this assinine opinion. Years of bad management and losing clouds people judgement.

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#63 Ryan2
January 02 2014, 11:24AM
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@ Jonathan Willis - Rushing a deal with any of the young d-men right now would be a mistake. The Oilers are dealing from a serious position of weakness. Klefbom's value is likely at its lowest - if they were going to deal him it should have been at the beginning of last season (pre-injury) when every team was high on him. Now that his warts are showing as he learns the North American game, and coming off an injury, his value is diminished. They need to let him correct them in OKC and make up for the development season he lost before looking at dealing him IMHO.

Besides, a #1 d-man will not fix a roster with this many holes. It will take at least two seasons to do that.

Right now the smarter approach would be to let Klefbom, Marincin, Gernat et. al develop further before dealing them. This team lacks NHL calibre blueline depth, and the only way to get that cost effectively is to draft and develop. Where did pairings like Weber and Suter or Seabrook and Keith come from? Drafting and developing. The problem is that it takes time to do so. Fans need to accept that the supporting player cupboard was so bare due to inept drafting/development and/or letting valuable NHLers go due to GM/coaches' favoritism (how would Greene, Brodziak, Cogliano, etc. look on the team now?).

As I have been saying since the deal was done, wasting the one young forward with size and value at the end of last year in a deal for Perron instead of for a #1 or #2 d-man was a mistake. Regardless of how many points Perron scores against weak competition (notice how he does not do as well against bigger teams?), he does not improve the team anywhere near as much as a #1 or #2 d-man would have. The fact that MacT wasted the one expendable young forward with value at the end of the season speaks volumes about his ability to identify and address needs as a GM, as well as assess and value talent (the overpays for Ference and Gagner being exhibits B and C).

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#64 Serious Gord
January 02 2014, 11:26AM
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Harry wrote:

Your a complete idiot.

You think these guys need MORE losing!? Tanking on purpose for the sake of a draft pick is 100% loser talk. Try and tell the to Hall or Eakins.

Further more you say Mac's signings have been questionable. How good are Hall and RNH and hopefully Ebs going to look at 6 mil when the cap is approaching 80mill in 3-4 years?

I dont fully put the blame on yourself however for this assinine opinion. Years of bad management and losing clouds people judgement.

Let me clarify a bit. As the team is currently constituted there is almost no chance they will finish out of the bottom five. It would be more likely that they finish worse (30th) than they are now as buffalo seems to be getting a bit better and is playing most of its games against the east whereas EDM will be getting its teeth kicked in most games against the western powerhouses.

Thus making significant additions - improvements - is pointless and risky. Better to stand pat and see what the current group can do and not give Eakins any excuse to avoid being fired for continued incompetency.

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#65 Lochenzo
January 02 2014, 11:34AM
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Hey look! Konopka on waivers today for all of you banging that drum last year.

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#66 Lochenzo
January 02 2014, 12:02PM
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I'd suspect that they are already looking to move Sam Gagner. His NTC kicks in this summer. Maybe that's why we saw Roman Horak get a looksee at centre.

I don't think I've seen anybody mention Kulikov here. He's risky in terms of his development and risk of flight to the KHL, but if Sam Gagner's value is as low as some of you suggest it is, then maybe that's the deal you could complete without surrendering too much.

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#67 PutzStew
January 02 2014, 12:04PM
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I only read a few comments but that was enough.

Eberle, Prospect and Pick will not get you Weber. Thats not even up for debate.

Don't forget there would be 29 teams in on the bidding. One of those would have to be Philly too. What do you think they would give up to get him.

So if if I was Nashville, I would be asking Hall/RNH, Nurse and this years 1st for Weber.

If you think different then keep drinking the Koolaid. At then least you will have an excuse for not having a clue.

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#68 PutzStew
January 02 2014, 12:39PM
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mr common sense wrote:

I think Buffalo would take Gagner for Steve Ott straight and if Im MacT, I do that in 1.5 seconds. Ott, a ufa, becomes the C to monitor Thornton, Getz and the other big C's in our division.

Next, do whatever the heck is necessary to land Webber, I think Eberle/Klefbom will do it.

Once you have Webber, then I honestly think we use J. Schultz as an asset to move out for a golden C....im thinking, J. Shultz/Alice/#2 for Coutourier/Simmonds

so we have added:

Ott, Webber, Coutourier and Simmonds and we delete gagner, alice, eberle, kelfbom....now that is frickin bold and our team is meteorically better.

Lets start here.

Ott will be a good deadline pick up and someone will probably over pay for him. Gagner needs to be behind a good top center so Buffalo isn't a good place for him.

See above about Webber.

And why would Philly want Shultz? Especially if Webber is available. Do you really think Nashville would juts let the Oilers know that Webber is available? Do you think they fell sorry for Edmonton and would just give Webber away, with out seeing what else was being offered??? Or that Philly would settle with Shultz as a runner up gift???

How about this....I will give you a 2x$5bills for one $20bill?

Come on. You get 2 for the price of one. I'll only do it for you though because you are special.

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#69 pkam
January 02 2014, 01:42PM
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I know of 3 types of trades.

1st type is playoff teams trade their futures for immediate help to push for the playoff and the cup. Usually, you give up more in this kind of trade. Since we are not a playoff team so so I don't think we are looking at the 1st type of trade.

2nd type is exchange of garbage. Hopefully your garbage may work better than mine. I don't think this type of trade is going to help us but at least it will quiet some fans with new faces.

3rd type is two teams trade away their redundant strength to fill a hole of their own.

I know we have needs in at least one 1st pairing D, more likely 2. A big 2C, a starting goalie, bigger 3rd line winger, and a 4C. But where is our redundant strength?

The only position we may have some redundancy is top 2 RW in Eberle, Yak and Hemsky. But some suggests that Eberle has already reached his maximum potential, Yak is still a big gamble, and Hemsky has no more value and we should let him walk UFA. So even our deepest position is not that deep. If we have so many holes and no real redundancy, what does it mean?

Some suggest packaging RNH/Hall for Weber. So we fill the top D hole with a new hole in 1C or 1LW? How is this helping our team?

So how can we improve the team but filling one hole with another?

I don't know about you, IMO, we are not ready yet. No trade is going to fix the problem. If we can't lure UFA to come here, the only option we have is to be patient and fill up our cupboard first.

If we are to trade away our young core players for some immediately help to push for playoff, we will never have a team good enough for the cup. Isn't it what we we did prior to 2010?

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#70 thefoz
January 02 2014, 03:03PM
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So what do you guys think a reasonable return for a package like this:

Eberle+Klefbom+2014 1st (with best shot at either of Ekblad or Reinhart or whoever else they're pimping by then)

I would think that could form the basis of a deal that might land a player of Subban's calibre. I love me some Shea Weber, but I would be targeting Subban before him given his current contract situation, his insane talent, and his age.

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#71 RexHolez
January 02 2014, 04:32PM
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Spydyr wrote:

Unfortunately there are two ends in hockey.

Sometimes you gotta just accept the Ovechkins of the world. He's not gonna be a strong 2way player. All were doing is lowering his value, taking away his passion and turning this into a soap opera.

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#72 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
January 02 2014, 04:35PM
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oilerjed wrote:

@JW, My question for a big trade to happen is WHEN? Ive said it before and Ill say it again, sooner is better if this team wants to gain some momentum to start next season. I hate the thought of another summer of a few tweaks and then letting it roll. Why not get it started today, most teams we are talking about already know the score on these players too.

In your opinion is MacT working it now or is he bidng his time until the trade deadline and draft. I hope not.

There have been reports from credible sources that MacT and his team have been communicating with pretty much every team in the league for many weeks now. On the one hand they should be prepared for the deadline. On the other hand, GMs in today's league seem to like the confidence they get by waiting for the deadline. They get to see what market value looks like....they get to peruse the players they want in order of priority, they get to save a few bucks in salary by not buying until the last minute, etc.....and the sellers perceive their leverage to be highest right at the deadline.....so lots of forces at play to make an early trade less likely.

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#73 Andrew
January 02 2014, 05:06PM
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Stupidest proposed trade EVER!! That's why it will likely happen. If any other NHL team owned Klefbom it would not even be considered. This disfunctional and incompetent management are just liiable to do it.

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#74 Stack Pad Save
January 02 2014, 09:01AM
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Willis I have a question for you that you might be able to figure out for me.

Does the value for players actually go up or down at trade deadline? Is there a trend of players being over valued in trades or undervalued? The reason I ask, is if the Oilers are waiting to trade deadline to sell-off pieces again is it better to sell early and get more value or alternative if they are going for BOLD moves, can they get a better player on the cheap at trade deadline?

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#75 They're $hittie
January 02 2014, 09:21AM
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JW

you forgot to add Ekblad to the list of Oilers D Depth, (happy or sad dont know how to feel)

Who has more trade value, Klefbom or Marancin?

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#76 OilDieHard
January 02 2014, 10:41AM
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fans must come to the realization that some players they may feel are vital to this team, but may not actually be....like Eberle, Gagner, Hemsky, Yak...may be the ones that need to go (no not all together), when looking at #1 d-men coming here, as well as the 1st rounder, though if i'm the Oilers, with very little in the cupboard for GOOD forwards in the system, i'm still keeping the pick and taking a forward if outside the top 2.

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#77 Harry
January 02 2014, 11:17AM
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EHH Team wrote:

You're dreaming if you think Nashville moves Webber for Eberle & Klefbom

Eberle, Klefbom, J Shultz and our 2014 1st.

If that trade is on the table id do it in a second.

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#78 Ed in PV
January 02 2014, 11:20AM
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Spydyr wrote:

But, but he scored eight points in a game once.

All kidding aside anyone is tradable and GM's value draft postilion and youth.

The bigger concern to me is why was Gagner signed to that contract in the first place.Including a partial no trade clause.Easy answer is yes management here is that bad.It is mind numbing the incompetence of this management group.

It is better to trade him for whatever you can get between now and the trade deadline then to buy him out for no return this summer.

The sad,scary part is it looks like management here still believe he is part of the solution not part of the problem.

His game and the teams record states otherwise.

If you put yourself in the shoes of the other team's GM, would you even take Gangner for zero? You are stuck with the $4.8 mill for another 2 years. Why would anyone do that?

Why was he signed is one of the key problems with the Oil. Can't seem to evaluate player's abilities. I think they often see "talent" as the same as a player's ability to play the game.

If they could get the same deal as they got for Omark (which might be zero) they should do it.

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#79 Rama Lama
January 02 2014, 11:44AM
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Webber would be nice to add to our team but come on people check out Nashville? Last time I checked the standings having Webber on their team has not really done much for their team.

I would say that within a year Seth Jones will be the talk of the town there and Webber a aging talent. I for one would not give up what will be demanded for Webber and I would be more inclined to find a a defensive/shutdown hard hitting defenceman. This is what we need and IMHO, webber is a little over rated at this juncture of his career.

Mac T has some difficult decisions to make but giving up a shot at a player like Ekblad is nothing short of myopic madness!! Maybe trade Oscar Klefblom for another first round draft pick, so that we have some chips to use for the upcoming draft?

I think in short order Mac T will need to concentrate his energies on finding another goaltender and coach.

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#80 Spydyr
January 02 2014, 12:01PM
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Stack Pad Save wrote:

I doubt the coyotes would do a straight across deal of Yak for Yandle.

You would have to give up something considerable plus Yak to get Yandle.

Unless you are getting a fabulous return I would not move Yak yet. He is just a kid he needs time and a coach too teach him the pro game.His whole life he owned the puck and never had to worry about defence.

Too bad he held the KHL over the teams head last year. A year more in junior then some time in the AHL learning the pro game would have been better for him.

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#81 Spydyr
January 02 2014, 12:31PM
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MessyEH! wrote:

Please give examples of 1st overalls who went back to junior?

Mike Modano 23 years ago is the last example.

As for Yak playing in the KHL please explain how that was holding anything above anyone's head. The kid went to his home town to play. To play the Pro game.

Yak said he would not report back to junior if he was not playing here he was going to the KHL.

You don't think Yak could of used some time learning the pro game?One more year of junior then the AHL would of helped with that.

It sure hurt Modano eh.If he needed seasoning he needed seasoning does not matter where he was drafted.

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#82 PutzStew
January 02 2014, 01:02PM
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Harry wrote:

Eberle, Klefbom, J Shultz and our 2014 1st.

If that trade is on the table id do it in a second.

Sigh.....

Ok Start with Hall or RNH....

Add a Nurse.....or maybe a Klefbom...

Probably a first rounder....I would want 2014 myself...maybe both 2013 and 2014....

and you might need to include a second rounder...maybe Yak....or Ebs...Gagner...Petry....who knows....

Just think "What would Philly give up for Webber?".....Or NYR?.....San Jose?....Etc......Now you have to beat that.

Eberle is a decent player but not impact enough to be the major part of the trade. Shultz...Same, but worse. Klefbom. He's not even an impact in the AHL and has barely played in the past two seasons. And this years first isn't going to be worth that much, unless it is #1 or #2.

Before you folks make these silly proposals please stop and try to imagine yourself as a fan of the other team....I know it may be hard because no other team has sucked as bad as the Oilers in a really long time....but think to yourself "Would I be willing to accept those Oilers Players in return for this player?"

This line of thinking will make a few of you look much more knowledgeable than you are causing yourselves to look.

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#83 TigerUnderGlass
January 02 2014, 01:17PM
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PutzStew wrote:

Sigh.....

Ok Start with Hall or RNH....

Add a Nurse.....or maybe a Klefbom...

Probably a first rounder....I would want 2014 myself...maybe both 2013 and 2014....

and you might need to include a second rounder...maybe Yak....or Ebs...Gagner...Petry....who knows....

Just think "What would Philly give up for Webber?".....Or NYR?.....San Jose?....Etc......Now you have to beat that.

Eberle is a decent player but not impact enough to be the major part of the trade. Shultz...Same, but worse. Klefbom. He's not even an impact in the AHL and has barely played in the past two seasons. And this years first isn't going to be worth that much, unless it is #1 or #2.

Before you folks make these silly proposals please stop and try to imagine yourself as a fan of the other team....I know it may be hard because no other team has sucked as bad as the Oilers in a really long time....but think to yourself "Would I be willing to accept those Oilers Players in return for this player?"

This line of thinking will make a few of you look much more knowledgeable than you are causing yourselves to look.

Weber aside, what makes you think a player like Hall or RNH needs to be moved to get a #1 defenseman?

They have been traded before, so why don't you take a second and look at what high end defenseman usually go for.

hint: It is NEVER players like Hall and RNH.

I agree that Weber is likely not on the table right now, but your apparent belief that everyone else is an idiot because they don't think it will cost Hall to get a top shelf defenseman is absurd.

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#84 Westcoastoil
January 02 2014, 01:19PM
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They will have to include one of Klefbom or Marincin (depending on which is valued higher by the trading partner) to get some value back.

They should also try and make some smaller like for like kind of trades with some forwards where the players may be more or less a wash, but the incoming player is coming from a successful team that plays the way the Oilers should be playing. Guys who will finish a check and go into the hard areas. This was apparently a big part of the Ference signing. We just need more of them even if they are of the 3 line variety.

I can't imagine Hall wants to wait for Nurse, Klembom, Marincin etc. to impact an NHL game

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#85 TigerUnderGlass
January 02 2014, 02:14PM
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PutzStew wrote:

The conversation does not involving a # 1 dman, it is involving Webber and Webber's value is going to be much higher then most number one Dmen.

Thinking you could steal Webber for anything less then one of Hall or RNH is absurd.

And no I don't think everyone is an idiot, just people thinking they are going to win a sweepstakes for Webber, using bit parts. If you read the comments I'm not the only one that thinks so.

Here something fun. Fnd some Nashville blog sites and offer them Eberle, Klefbom and this years first for Webber.

Let me know how you make out.

I take it then that you had no luck finding a trade like the one you are suggesting?

So essentially your position is that Weber would be the best defenseman ever traded in the NHL so if he was traded it would be like no other trade we have ever seen?

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#86 michael
January 02 2014, 02:17PM
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pkam wrote:

I know of 3 types of trades.

1st type is playoff teams trade their futures for immediate help to push for the playoff and the cup. Usually, you give up more in this kind of trade. Since we are not a playoff team so so I don't think we are looking at the 1st type of trade.

2nd type is exchange of garbage. Hopefully your garbage may work better than mine. I don't think this type of trade is going to help us but at least it will quiet some fans with new faces.

3rd type is two teams trade away their redundant strength to fill a hole of their own.

I know we have needs in at least one 1st pairing D, more likely 2. A big 2C, a starting goalie, bigger 3rd line winger, and a 4C. But where is our redundant strength?

The only position we may have some redundancy is top 2 RW in Eberle, Yak and Hemsky. But some suggests that Eberle has already reached his maximum potential, Yak is still a big gamble, and Hemsky has no more value and we should let him walk UFA. So even our deepest position is not that deep. If we have so many holes and no real redundancy, what does it mean?

Some suggest packaging RNH/Hall for Weber. So we fill the top D hole with a new hole in 1C or 1LW? How is this helping our team?

So how can we improve the team but filling one hole with another?

I don't know about you, IMO, we are not ready yet. No trade is going to fix the problem. If we can't lure UFA to come here, the only option we have is to be patient and fill up our cupboard first.

If we are to trade away our young core players for some immediately help to push for playoff, we will never have a team good enough for the cup. Isn't it what we we did prior to 2010?

This is exactly what we did. I agree with your reasoning. It reflects what I have been saying about drafting and developing.

I totally disagree with those who feel that making the playoffs is the goal. Yup we've seen where that path lead year after year. Losses to Dallas/Detroit/Colorado and so on.

Just getting there is and should not be the end all and be all. It should be about being competitive long term like those Sharks were playing tonight.

The experience factor is so huge. And what do our top 6 lack vs the top 6 teams in the WC. Experience. Teows and Kane are 4 years ahead of Hall and Ebs and RNH. Minimum.

Yup we should be their equal because we say so.Does not happen. Hall has made great strides as a player. But it takes more than Hall to win. It will take time and patience.

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#87 Spaceman Spiff
January 02 2014, 02:51PM
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MessyEH! wrote:

Please give examples of 1st overalls who went back to junior?

Mike Modano 23 years ago is the last example.

As for Yak playing in the KHL please explain how that was holding anything above anyone's head. The kid went to his home town to play. To play the Pro game.

Hmm…OK… I accept your challenge. I went as far back to 1980, because before that, the WHA and NHL were in such a battle for underage players that there were 18-year-olds playing professional hockey everywhere from Birmingham, Alabama to Edmonton, Ala-berta.

Admittedly, not all of these are “pure” examples, but that’s only because not everyone who was drafted No. 1 overall came from a Canadian junior team (and, thus, had different rules apply to them in terms of being sent down to the AHL).

So, here we go…

- JOE MURPHY (1986) played five games in his rookie season and 71 in the minors with Adirondack (1986-87). Yes, I know, that’s not “junior,” it’s minor pro. But Murphy was a college kid and he could be sent down to the minors.

- MATS SUNDIN (1989) didn’t make his debut until the fall of 1990. He stayed in Sweden for one more year after his draft year. Again, I know that’s not “junior,” but the point is, he didn’t make the big club straight off his draft year (1989) and did a developmental year back with his drafted team.

- ERIC LINDROS (1991), as we all remember, didn’t make his debut until a year after his draft year. In 1991-92, he played with his junior team in Oshawa, the Canadian national team (this was back when there was one), the Olympic team and the world junior team. Of course, he wasn’t “sent” down. He held out for a trade because that’s what Bonnie and Carl told him to do. But he actually got a pretty decent developmental year in junior and international hockey after he went first overall and before he turned pro.

- ED JOVANOWSKI (1994) went back to the Windsor Spitfires for another year (1994-95, which was a lockout half-year).

- BRYAN BERARD (1995), was sent back to junior after his draft year … which was a small miracle, given that, on the draft floor, he was traded to the Islanders, who traditionally rush picks to the NHL.

- CHRIS PHILLIPS (1996) played another full season in the WHL – in fact, he was traded from Prince Albert to Lethbridge about halfway through it.

- RICK DIPIETRO (2000) played 14 games in the minors in his rookie year, 59 in his second year, and 34 in his third year. Just like Joe Murphy, they could send him to the minors because he was a college kid, not a junior player.

- MARC-ANDRE FLEURY (2003) played 10 games in Cape Breton during his rookie year.

- ALEX OVECHKIN. Oveckin played in Russia for another year. OK, it was the lockout year (2004-05), but again, another case of a buffer year between his draft and his pro year.

- ERIK JOHNSON (2006) played his freshman year at the U of Minnesota after he was drafted from the U.S. Under-18 national development team.

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#88 A-Mc
January 02 2014, 10:16AM
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@oilerjed

I would really like to see Klefbom play for a couple years before he gets traded away. Based on MacT's comments, it sounded like Klefbom was going to make the team sometime THIS year; which obviously hasn't happened.

I suppose the ultimate goal is a major D addition and if Klefbom has to be a piece of the trade, then so be it. But imo, he doesnt get moved unless it's part of a package trade that has a significant piece coming the other way.

No Klefbom for Horak + Goalie prospects, please...

PS: Not sure why it says i replied to you OilerJed. I didn't mean to!

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#89 Sammy27
January 02 2014, 11:31AM
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Is our overall win - loss record in the last 10 years worse than the mighty Islanders? Hang your head

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#90 Spydyr
January 02 2014, 11:50AM
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Quintana wrote:

I wonder what de Coyotes would want for Yandle? or Sammuelson? Would something like Snowpants plus Yak going to Arizona for Yandle, Murphy and Sammuelson work?

Don't think that works for the Coyotes.

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#91 OilDieHard
January 02 2014, 12:01PM
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Sal-Sational wrote:

With his contract @ $6M i think Jordan Eberle should be the kid used as trade Bait. Sam Gagner Needs to go but the problem is he's got no trade Value.

These are the Guys id Try to Target Next summer:

Centers Joe Thorton 34(2nd Line Center), David Bolland 27 (2nd Line Center)Boyle Brian 29(4th Line Center)

Defencemen: Dan Girardi 29 making around $3.5M Andrej Meszaros 28 making $4.00M Andrei Markov 35 making 5.75M

LW: Dustin Penner 31 making $2M Matt Moulson 30 Making $3.3M

RW: Ryan Callahan 28 Making $4.275M Jarome Iginla 36 Making $6M

Goalies: Jaroslav Halak, 28 making $3.7M Jonas Hiller, 31 Making $4.5M Ryan Miller , 33 Making $6.250M (but he wouldnt sign here)

if we ever managed to sign a 27 year old Bolland, then that for sure would be the end of Gagner as the 2nd line center here, though they'd likely drop him to 3rd line center or move him to the wing with Hemsky likely gone as a UFA.

Girardi would be another good vet to sign for our sad defense, though we need more than just him.

Hiller or Halak would also be a great signing and I think MacT is likely targeting one of those two in the off season.

I don't feel Callahan will sign here at his age, he along with Bolland will likely sign with contenders.

but we could have a chance at Brian Boyle, though don't expect much more than a 4th line center with enormous size.

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#92 MessyEH!
January 02 2014, 12:20PM
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Spydyr wrote:

Unless you are getting a fabulous return I would not move Yak yet. He is just a kid he needs time and a coach too teach him the pro game.His whole life he owned the puck and never had to worry about defence.

Too bad he held the KHL over the teams head last year. A year more in junior then some time in the AHL learning the pro game would have been better for him.

Please give examples of 1st overalls who went back to junior?

Mike Modano 23 years ago is the last example.

As for Yak playing in the KHL please explain how that was holding anything above anyone's head. The kid went to his home town to play. To play the Pro game.

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#93 Dan the Man
January 02 2014, 12:25PM
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John Chambers wrote:

Byfuglien is the guy I would target instead of Ehrhoff because he has both offensive abilities as well as size and nastiness that this team hasn't had since Souray.

Although Ehrhoff's contract is a bargain, and worth trading for in and of itself.

It's also a bonus that Byfuglien is a few years younger than Erhoff.

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#94 A-Mc
January 02 2014, 12:30PM
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Lochenzo wrote:

Offer sheet Subban and surrender 4 1st round picks.

I mean, what are the chances that the Oilers finish out of the playoffs next year and win the Connor McDavid sweepstakes?!?!?

Oh it's almost a LOCK that McDavid comes to the Mighty Oilers next year! =D

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#95 Sisyphus
January 02 2014, 12:59PM
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If Weber were to really be available, no way the Oilers land him for anything short of Hall/RNH. Never going to happen--there are enough teams in the league that would want him, that we'd have to pay/offer top dollar/value for him. Teams aren't going to be interested in our prospects and our busted-prospects for a dman like Weber--pipe dream.

I wish it wasn't the case, but there's no way to fix this besides 1) a painful, blockbuster trade of RNH or Hall, etc., or 2) a lot more time/patience. And sadly, the Oiler nation doesn't have the stomach for another 4 years of finishing last in the league, which is what option 2 sets up

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#96 Chet134
January 02 2014, 01:05PM
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@DoubleJ

Give this kid time. Two years ago, he was named top defensemen at the world jrs as a 18 yr old at a 20 yr old tourney. Never played last year due to injury. Now ur expecting him to step into the NHL. Hes as good as Brodin from Minny.

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#97 Sisyphus
January 02 2014, 01:06PM
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This is totally off topic, BUT....

Does anyone else wonder, just a little, if maybe Gagner isn't playing so terribly this season on purpose? He's always been thrown up as trade bait, and once he got his NTC for next season..

Maybe he realized that since he apparently wants to stay in Edmonton, the only way to really be sure he wasn't getting shipped out of town before his NTC kicked in, was to tank his value. The injury helped, for sure, but he's been playing far below form for even him

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#98 PutzStew
January 02 2014, 01:50PM
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TigerUnderGlass wrote:

Weber aside, what makes you think a player like Hall or RNH needs to be moved to get a #1 defenseman?

They have been traded before, so why don't you take a second and look at what high end defenseman usually go for.

hint: It is NEVER players like Hall and RNH.

I agree that Weber is likely not on the table right now, but your apparent belief that everyone else is an idiot because they don't think it will cost Hall to get a top shelf defenseman is absurd.

The conversation does not involving a # 1 dman, it is involving Webber and Webber's value is going to be much higher then most number one Dmen.

Thinking you could steal Webber for anything less then one of Hall or RNH is absurd.

And no I don't think everyone is an idiot, just people thinking they are going to win a sweepstakes for Webber, using bit parts. If you read the comments I'm not the only one that thinks so.

Here something fun. Fnd some Nashville blog sites and offer them Eberle, Klefbom and this years first for Webber.

Let me know how you make out.

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#99 TigerUnderGlass
January 02 2014, 02:19PM
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@PutzStew

Philly was willing to give up 4 firsts they expected to be in the high 20s. This is a very different creature.

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#100 thefoz
January 02 2014, 03:51PM
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@Spydyr

I like Pietrangelo too but I think Subban is more of a complete player. The extra $1.5MM per in cap space would be nice though, but I think he'd be a harder get because of that cap-friendly deal.

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