Oscar Klefbom might be most valuable to the Edmonton Oilers as a trade chip

Jonathan Willis
January 02 2014 08:24AM

It sounds decidedly counterintuitive. The Oilers need defencemen, so why would they trade a big 20-year-old blue-liner with a range of skills just as he’s learning the North American professional game?

There are reasons why it may make sense.

Availability

The simple fact is that Edmonton desperately needs at least one top-pairing calibre defenceman. The modern incarnation of Chris Pronger would be the dream here, which is why Shea Weber’s name never dies, but that may not be possible and if it isn’t Edmonton has to fill the void somehow.

The names that might be available on the trade market are generally some distance south of Weber. Players like Christian Ehrhoff and Brian Campbell and Dustin Byfuglien are the ones people speculate about; good, useful defenders either underrated by their current teams or playing out the string on a roster miles away from contending.

All of those guys have some warts, but all of them would represent a massive upgrade for an Edmonton team leaning on the trio of Jeff Petry, Andrew Ference and Justin Schultz. If MacTavish can’t bring in a Pronger, he needs to find at least a Boris Mironov or Janne Niinimaa or Roman Hamrlik. And given the meagre free agent pickings available, odds are good he’ll have to do it via trade.

Perfect Storm

In this hypothetical trade for a good defenceman, Edmonton needs a package of certain quality to trade. It has to be good enough to get the other team interested. It has to be non-vital enough that it isn’t going to crush the team to lose it. And finally it needs to be fair value for the Oilers, a team that needs to put meat on the table for every shot they fire.

The 2014 first round draft pick might have fit those bills, but at this point the Oilers would need eight more points than they have just to get outside the top-five of the draft. It’s still a moveable piece, but the return on it needs to be something bigger than Mironov or Niinimaa and those returns are hard to land.

Some of the young forwards (Taylor Hall and Ryan Nugent-Hopkins) are too vital to make the list; the others (Jordan Eberle and Nail Yakupov) fall into the same boat as that 2014 pick, where the guy coming the other way needs to be a lot bigger than he’s likely to be. Sam Gagner’s tradable but opens up an ugly hole at centre, and the only plausible internal replacement has all of 32 career games under his belt.

What about Darnell Nurse? Team Canada may not be in love with him but he’s a 6’4” 18-year-old with a mean streak and a near point-per-game scoring run under his belt in junior this year. He’s not going to be good enough soon enough to plug the hole on defence himself, but he’s Edmonton’s best prospect by a country mile and a perfect fit for long-term need.

Which is where Klefbom comes in. He’s a good player, with that nice blend of skills and a combination of size and speed that’s awfully hard to find. He was a first round draft pick. So he has value. But at the same time, he’s also 27 games into his AHL career, 20 years old and a guy who barely played last season; he isn’t going to fix Edmonton’s blue line problems any time soon. He can move the puck but his offensive ability has a definite ceiling; he might evolve into a very, very good shutdown guy but that’s years away and not impossible to find. He’s a left-shooting defenceman on a team with Nurse, Martin Marincin, Martin Gernat, Brandon Davidson and Dillon Simpson, so the Oilers have both quality and depth at the position.

Put it all together and it’s hard not to wonder if Klefbom is moved at some point. He has enough value to be the key asset in return for a good NHL player, much like he was when Edmonton moved Dustin Penner out. His absence doesn’t hurt the Oilers now, and they have a wealth of prospects at the position. And while an excellent prospect he’s not the kind of player likely to embarrass the team by winning a Norris Trophy five years down the road.

Recently by Jonathan Willis

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Jonathan Willis is a freelance writer. He currently works for Oilers Nation, the Edmonton Journal and Bleacher Report. He's co-written three books and worked for myriad websites, including Grantland, ESPN, The Score, and Hockey Prospectus. He was previously the founder and managing editor of Copper & Blue.
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#51 oilerjed
January 02 2014, 08:58AM
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@JW, My question for a big trade to happen is WHEN? Ive said it before and Ill say it again, sooner is better if this team wants to gain some momentum to start next season. I hate the thought of another summer of a few tweaks and then letting it roll. Why not get it started today, most teams we are talking about already know the score on these players too.

In your opinion is MacT working it now or is he bidng his time until the trade deadline and draft. I hope not.

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#52 They're $hittie
January 02 2014, 09:21AM
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JW

you forgot to add Ekblad to the list of Oilers D Depth, (happy or sad dont know how to feel)

Who has more trade value, Klefbom or Marancin?

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#54 S4H1
January 02 2014, 09:48AM
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A major deal for a top defenseman would, I think, be more likely in the summer.

The package we received for Pronger was a skill player, a first round pick and a defensive prospect. A package of Eberle, 2014 1st(top 5), and Klefbom is a superior mix and could, maybe, be enough to get Nashville intrigued.

For a lesser D such as Ehrhoff I imagine a team like Buffalo would like a prospect the caliber of Klefbom and may be happy to dump that contract and trade straight across. I'm not sure that we have the right pieces to include in such a deal.

JW, do you think the oilers have the necessary assets to gain an Ehrhoff caliber defenseman without over paying?

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#55 Ed in PV
January 02 2014, 09:57AM
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Spydyr wrote:

"Sam Gagner’s tradable but opens up an ugly hole at centre,"

Acro can fill that hole short term until the summer.It is not like they are going to make the playoffs.

Gagner is not tradeable at the moment. Do you think any GM would take on $4.8 million for a center who is on track for less the 40 points and trending to a -30? Unless he starts playing better, a buy out will be the Oil's only option. You are falling into the common fault of the Edmonton Sport's media of over valuing the Oil's players abilities.

If you think of the Penner to LA trade a few years ago, the Oil got two first rounders for Penner ( Teubert and a pick who became Klefbom). If this is a metric it will take more than just a lower 1st round pick who has yet to show much as a pro for a higher end D man. I would suggest the Oil would need offer up at least at much as the got for Penner.

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#56 RexHolez
January 02 2014, 10:36AM
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Who cares how we get new players or who we trade. Pick names out of a hat, this team is pathetic and I find it hard to imagine they could get any worst

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#57 John Chambers
January 02 2014, 10:37AM
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Jonathan Willis wrote:

We don't actually know Winnipeg has any interest in moving him; it seems possible given the state of the organization, the warts on the player, and the angry columns in the local paper but it's all speculation.

Byfuglien is the guy I would target instead of Ehrhoff because he has both offensive abilities as well as size and nastiness that this team hasn't had since Souray.

Although Ehrhoff's contract is a bargain, and worth trading for in and of itself.

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#58 oilerjed
January 02 2014, 10:40AM
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@JW Or anyone who knows

What is the deal with Yakimov? Is he legit and how far away is he from the nhl? Looks like an excellent candidate for 2C to me, without even having to give up anyone that could be used for a Dman.

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#59 Lochenzo
January 02 2014, 10:58AM
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I think I would need to know what the 1st round pick is before I deal it, meaning nothing will happen until the summer. If the pick is top 2 (Reinhart or Ekblad), the pick should be off the table. And no way you give up a shot at Connor McDavid next year.

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#60 Harry
January 02 2014, 11:36AM
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Serious Gord wrote:

Let me clarify a bit. As the team is currently constituted there is almost no chance they will finish out of the bottom five. It would be more likely that they finish worse (30th) than they are now as buffalo seems to be getting a bit better and is playing most of its games against the east whereas EDM will be getting its teeth kicked in most games against the western powerhouses.

Thus making significant additions - improvements - is pointless and risky. Better to stand pat and see what the current group can do and not give Eakins any excuse to avoid being fired for continued incompetency.

Have you looked at Edms record in their last 20? Dont kid yourself the preperations for next year begin now! Not at the draft or the trade deadline. Losing is never an option. I am impressed what ive seen from our top players in the past 10 games ( other than st louis of course). So these guys should be playing pissed off and carry that over to training camp. Not recieving the message from management or the fans that losing is the goal in order to get a "potential" difference maker via a top 5 pick. Give your head a shake!!!!

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#61 A-Mc
January 02 2014, 12:11PM
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PutzStew wrote:

I only read a few comments but that was enough.

Eberle, Prospect and Pick will not get you Weber. Thats not even up for debate.

Don't forget there would be 29 teams in on the bidding. One of those would have to be Philly too. What do you think they would give up to get him.

So if if I was Nashville, I would be asking Hall/RNH, Nurse and this years 1st for Weber.

If you think different then keep drinking the Koolaid. At then least you will have an excuse for not having a clue.

That's likely what they would be asking for, but it's not something that would get done.

1st overall, 7th overall and likely top 3 overall, all likely to make 6m+/yr (by todays standards) for Weber? No way.

I guess I'm drinking the Koolaid, but i think at least 1 of those pieces needs to be of lower caliber than top 10 pick: ie: Ebs, Klef and our 1st.

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#62 Sisyphus
January 02 2014, 12:15PM
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Oh thank goodness Putz, another voice of reason! (And I mean that, no sarcasm).

Oiler fans tend to forget that there are going to be a bunch of other teams in play for any players that provide actual skill and value. Why fans here seem to think that Gagner for anyone other than perhaps a prospect is going to happen is beyond me.

The Oilers need serious, veteran, immediate help. And you aren't going to get the kind of help you need without giving up some serious skill in return. Frankly, I see two options.

1. Give up a Yak, Gagner, Hemmer, Schultz, maybe the pick, and piece-meal approach to fix all the glaring holes in the organization, one trade at a time.

2. Bite the bullet, put Hall or RNH, plus the pick (or similar) on the line, and go after a team that can provide pieces to fix quite a few of the holes at once--i.e. a dman, a gritty BUT ALSO SKILLED veteran forward, and a goalie.

I'm in favor of #2, because at least you'd get it all done at once, rather than thinking "oh sure, we fixed one hole, we're done now, right?"

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#63 PutzStew
January 02 2014, 12:20PM
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Chet134 wrote:

U can't trade Nug or hall. If we have a chance to draft Ekblad it's a no brainier. The kid is a stud. Imagine having weber, nurse, Ekblad, Schultz, petry, ?. Much improved D.

?????????????

This makes no sense??????

How did you end up with Weber??????

You think Nashville will just give him to you for Magic Beans?????

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#64 Chet134
January 02 2014, 12:48PM
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PutzStew wrote:

?????????????

This makes no sense??????

How did you end up with Weber??????

You think Nashville will just give him to you for Magic Beans?????

It makes total sense. So out of Eberle, yak, nurse, kleffbom, and Schultz, u can't get a deal done. Are u scouting for the Oilers.

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#65 Sisyphus
January 02 2014, 12:59PM
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If Weber were to really be available, no way the Oilers land him for anything short of Hall/RNH. Never going to happen--there are enough teams in the league that would want him, that we'd have to pay/offer top dollar/value for him. Teams aren't going to be interested in our prospects and our busted-prospects for a dman like Weber--pipe dream.

I wish it wasn't the case, but there's no way to fix this besides 1) a painful, blockbuster trade of RNH or Hall, etc., or 2) a lot more time/patience. And sadly, the Oiler nation doesn't have the stomach for another 4 years of finishing last in the league, which is what option 2 sets up

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#66 PutzStew
January 02 2014, 01:31PM
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A-Mc wrote:

That's likely what they would be asking for, but it's not something that would get done.

1st overall, 7th overall and likely top 3 overall, all likely to make 6m+/yr (by todays standards) for Weber? No way.

I guess I'm drinking the Koolaid, but i think at least 1 of those pieces needs to be of lower caliber than top 10 pick: ie: Ebs, Klef and our 1st.

So when making a trade, teams base the grading of potential player on their draft position.

That would mean PVR would be higher then Webber.

Just saying.

My point is that Philly was willing to give up 4 first round picks to get Webber. They even tried to sweeten the pot to get him. If he is available, what do you think they would give Nashville to get him? The only one I think they would not trade, would be Giroux.

So lets see. If I was Nashville....how about Couturier, Coburn, Voracek....picks.....prospects.....??? I don't think Philly will hold back if they have a chance to get Webber.

So my point is that you have to beat someone like Philly if you are going to win a sweepstakes for Webber, you are not going to be able to skimp. Edmonton would have to be all in to get him. Eberle, Klefbom and this years first is not all in.

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#67 Spydyr
January 02 2014, 02:56PM
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RexHolez wrote:

I think letting Yak play his game would help too

Unfortunately there are two ends in hockey.

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#68 Spydyr
January 02 2014, 04:11PM
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thefoz wrote:

To be honest, I don't watch enough of either player to make a truly informed opinion, but by the numbers Subban is more impressive in all three game states, and the MTL blog circuit has pretty much nothing but heaping praise for him while casting aside opinions about his character as being uninformed.

I'm not saying you are, but that narrative just doesn't seem to jive with what smarter people than me usually say about him. What kind of stuff have you seen/read that makes you think that way about him anyway?

I seen highlights of him doing some things in previous years that make him look like a me player. His extended contract battles lean that way too.

Like you I have not seen either player a whole bunch but what I do know is most experts have Pietrangelo as a lock for the Olympic team and Subban is on the bubble.

That shows people with higher a hockey IQ and more information then us think Pietrangelo is the better player.

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#69 voom04
January 02 2014, 09:46PM
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its like the phil colins song throwin it all away, just start getting the team close to respectability and everybody wants to throw it all away!! go figure

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#70 Spydyr
January 02 2014, 10:15PM
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Wayne Reynolds wrote:

The reason I find spyors quote discusting has nothing to do with whether it is true or not. It really has nothing to do with hockey. It is a cowardly comment hiding behind a pen name. I would let you wouldn't,t say that to MacT,s face

First off look up how to copy and paste.That way you can spell peoples handles properly.

Second off you know nothing about me.

Third off the comment was brought up in context to Sather taking chances on reclamation projects.That has to do with hockey.

Finally your quote "I would let you wouldn't,t say that to MacT,s face"

I believe you mean I bet you wouldn't say that to Mac-T's face.

I would not unless it came up in the conversation.Say like talking about second chances.One would hope he wishes he could change that day and thinks about it often.

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#71 john
January 03 2014, 02:03AM
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Why everybody want Weber so much? Nashville is not in a playoff spot with Weber on the team, having a good Dman but the rest of the team don't play defense will not win you games. With Pronger we didn't win game 7 of Cup Finals in 2006. Stop being stupid and wake up all of you. This team will get better just be patient and bring in some bigger players in. An experienced coach will do too, instead of this AHL coach in training.

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#72 Rdubb
January 03 2014, 06:10AM
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Question for you Gregor; We (Oiler fans & media alike) run down the Oilers defense, almost daily these days, so why doesn't MacT bring up more of these guys from OKC and see what they can do in the NHL? Some guys who are average minor leaguers, to above average minor leaguers can turn out to be very good guys @ the top level of their profession. Look @ Nascar for one, Jimmy Johnson was less than an average driver in the Nationwide series but turned out to be the greatest driver of this generation in Nascars main series. I am also positive that you could find SEVERAL NHL'ers who are in the same boat (the only problem is that I cannot think of any off hand, mostly because I have never really followed the AHL, sorry, & I do not really know how to find these stats so quickly to put into here), & for a guy who follows the AHL like yourself, you most likely can put some names in here... So, why not give 2 or 3 or even 4 of these a chance, perhaps all @ once and see how they do. They few times some of them have been called up they have done extremely well in their game or two stint, so let's give them an extended look. The season's a loss anyway, so why not see what we have coming up? Greb's (although in OKC last I knew), Belov, N.Schultz can all sit, as should J.Schultz for all his costly turnovers and mistakes, it'd do him some good to sit & watch for a while anyway. Even Petry could take a seat for a game or two. Really, Ference is the only guy who we cannot afford to sit @ this time... What are your thoughts Gregor?

Peck

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#73 Neal
January 03 2014, 11:49AM
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I must say I'm astonished at how many posters do not seem to realize that it takes another GM to agree to make a trade.

And that all the other GM's are fully aware of what our players are worth. And also fully aware of the pressure Mac is under to get something done.

Mac is the carcass and the other GM's are the vultures.

Bold can turn into Stupid pretty fast. I think we should be realizing an elephant this big ain't gonna be eaten in one or two gulps...

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#74 Stack Pad Save
January 02 2014, 09:01AM
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Willis I have a question for you that you might be able to figure out for me.

Does the value for players actually go up or down at trade deadline? Is there a trend of players being over valued in trades or undervalued? The reason I ask, is if the Oilers are waiting to trade deadline to sell-off pieces again is it better to sell early and get more value or alternative if they are going for BOLD moves, can they get a better player on the cheap at trade deadline?

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#76 They're $hittie
January 02 2014, 09:32AM
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Jonathan Willis wrote:

I'd guess Klefbom has more cachet, but I could be wrong.

I think it comes down to which one you would rather keep. Marincin is a little older and seems a little bit more ready.

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#77 vetinari
January 02 2014, 09:50AM
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I could easily see MacT packaging up one of either Eberele (the most trade value with a locked in long term contract) or Yakupov (the red-headed stepchild) together with Klefbom for some veteran defensive help and then use the 2014 first rounder to pick yet another forward to replace the outgoing forward. Just a hunch given that we hate to "waste" top 5 picks on defencemen...

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#78 A-Mc
January 02 2014, 10:16AM
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@oilerjed

I would really like to see Klefbom play for a couple years before he gets traded away. Based on MacT's comments, it sounded like Klefbom was going to make the team sometime THIS year; which obviously hasn't happened.

I suppose the ultimate goal is a major D addition and if Klefbom has to be a piece of the trade, then so be it. But imo, he doesnt get moved unless it's part of a package trade that has a significant piece coming the other way.

No Klefbom for Horak + Goalie prospects, please...

PS: Not sure why it says i replied to you OilerJed. I didn't mean to!

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#79 oilerjed
January 02 2014, 10:24AM
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@ Serious Gord "Like it or not tanking for the rest of the season should be the goal - sadly the only advantage to having a disastrous season - the remainder of the year. to play their way out of a top five pick - a pick that could get that high-end defenseman or some other desperately needed asset would be a silly, face-saving gesture that goes against the long-term interests of the team."

Maybe this should read POTENTIAL high end defencemen, unless you meant that you wanted the top 5 as a trade asset.

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#80 Manfly
January 02 2014, 10:51AM
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The Soup Fascist wrote:

With the new liberal cannabis laws in Colorado which came into effect January 1st, expect 'ol Dusty to end up with the Avs in the not too distant future.

Byfuglien's list of teams in a limited NTC: Colorado Avs, Seattle (upon being granted a expansion team) and Jamaica.

if the Hawks made a little more cap room, and with the cap going up next year, i could easily see the Hawks trying to re-acquire him.

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#81 A-Mc
January 02 2014, 10:51AM
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RexHolez wrote:

Who cares how we get new players or who we trade. Pick names out of a hat, this team is pathetic and I find it hard to imagine they could get any worst

lol. I'd hazard a guess that this is how a significant portion of Oilers fans feel these days. Right or wrong, it's how we feel!

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#82 Spydyr
January 02 2014, 11:09AM
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mr common sense wrote:

I think Buffalo would take Gagner for Steve Ott straight and if Im MacT, I do that in 1.5 seconds. Ott, a ufa, becomes the C to monitor Thornton, Getz and the other big C's in our division.

Next, do whatever the heck is necessary to land Webber, I think Eberle/Klefbom will do it.

Once you have Webber, then I honestly think we use J. Schultz as an asset to move out for a golden C....im thinking, J. Shultz/Alice/#2 for Coutourier/Simmonds

so we have added:

Ott, Webber, Coutourier and Simmonds and we delete gagner, alice, eberle, kelfbom....now that is frickin bold and our team is meteorically better.

You over value Oiler players almost as much as the Oilers management group does.

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#83 EHH Team
January 02 2014, 11:14AM
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mr common sense wrote:

I think Buffalo would take Gagner for Steve Ott straight and if Im MacT, I do that in 1.5 seconds. Ott, a ufa, becomes the C to monitor Thornton, Getz and the other big C's in our division.

Next, do whatever the heck is necessary to land Webber, I think Eberle/Klefbom will do it.

Once you have Webber, then I honestly think we use J. Schultz as an asset to move out for a golden C....im thinking, J. Shultz/Alice/#2 for Coutourier/Simmonds

so we have added:

Ott, Webber, Coutourier and Simmonds and we delete gagner, alice, eberle, kelfbom....now that is frickin bold and our team is meteorically better.

You're dreaming if you think Nashville moves Webber for Eberle & Klefbom

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#84 A-Mc
January 02 2014, 11:36AM
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@Ryan2

Sorry, you weren't going to get a #1/2 Dman for Magnus PRV.

If anyone was given the option of trading PRV for a #1/2 Dman OR Perron, it's a no brainer to take the Dman. That option wasn't presented because there's no way PRV was part of a trade for that calibre of player.

Perron was a steal and we were lucky to get that. The only reason we did was because of STL's money situation.

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#85 A-Mc
January 02 2014, 11:42AM
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Harry wrote:

Have you looked at Edms record in their last 20? Dont kid yourself the preperations for next year begin now! Not at the draft or the trade deadline. Losing is never an option. I am impressed what ive seen from our top players in the past 10 games ( other than st louis of course). So these guys should be playing pissed off and carry that over to training camp. Not recieving the message from management or the fans that losing is the goal in order to get a "potential" difference maker via a top 5 pick. Give your head a shake!!!!

You're blurring the lines between the different perspectives on the team.

From the Players perspective, you're right, losing CAN'T be the mandate. But from the GM's perspective (Serious Gord's position) getting the highest draft pick possible is best if you're going to suck anyway.

You're using insulting words by calling him a complete idiot and then you're arguing a position that is from a perspective NOT related to personnel acquisition.

The Subject matter of the original article suggests that we are to put our GM thinking caps on so please drop the crap about player mentality.

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#86 MessyEH!
January 02 2014, 12:20PM
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Spydyr wrote:

Unless you are getting a fabulous return I would not move Yak yet. He is just a kid he needs time and a coach too teach him the pro game.His whole life he owned the puck and never had to worry about defence.

Too bad he held the KHL over the teams head last year. A year more in junior then some time in the AHL learning the pro game would have been better for him.

Please give examples of 1st overalls who went back to junior?

Mike Modano 23 years ago is the last example.

As for Yak playing in the KHL please explain how that was holding anything above anyone's head. The kid went to his home town to play. To play the Pro game.

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#87 PutzStew
January 02 2014, 12:25PM
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wintoon wrote:

There are 2 gaping and critical holes to fill with the Oilers line up. The first is a top pairing D man and the second is a 2C. As many have said, filling the top pairing D man is very challenging and would be at a premium cost wise. Perhaps the first step should be to explore a trade for a 2C such as O'Rielly from the Avs. Given the acrimony generated last year perhaps he could be available. This might be achieved using assets such as Gagner, Hemsky, Jones, Klefbom, Marincin and our 2015 first rounder to acquire a proven upgrade on the D. The Oilerws would then still have their 2014 top 5 lottery pick to fill either the 2C hole or combine it with Eberle or Yakupov to obtain that coveted top pairing D man. In any event, this coming trade deadline and the 2014 draft will be key to the Oilers and MacT's future. I wish them both every success.

What is wrong with you people?????

Why would Colorado trade O'Reilly for anything with Hemsky, Gagner or Jones???

Do you really think that Colorado couldn't find a better deal then anything with one of those player in it?

Have you looked at Colorado's center depth??? They have to gray Centers already. Hemsky and Jones are UFA's so why would they want to trade them.

Seriously what are you people drinking???

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#88 Spydyr
January 02 2014, 12:31PM
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MessyEH! wrote:

Please give examples of 1st overalls who went back to junior?

Mike Modano 23 years ago is the last example.

As for Yak playing in the KHL please explain how that was holding anything above anyone's head. The kid went to his home town to play. To play the Pro game.

Yak said he would not report back to junior if he was not playing here he was going to the KHL.

You don't think Yak could of used some time learning the pro game?One more year of junior then the AHL would of helped with that.

It sure hurt Modano eh.If he needed seasoning he needed seasoning does not matter where he was drafted.

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#89 Sisyphus
January 02 2014, 12:37PM
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What are you people on? I mean it--what good drugs do you clearly have?

The Oilers players are, on the whole, only of value to the Oilers. On a REAL hockey team, sadly, most of these players would be fringe/injury insurance at best.

No one wants Gags, even if we did decide to trade before the NTC kicks in. Certainly not for a player of value, even in a package (unless part of that package is RNH, Hall, or maaaybe Ebs). No one really wants Hemmer, and if they do, they'll sit tight until off-season, then pick him up without having to give us a thing.

Most teams aren't going to give us a solid dman, a 2C, a goalie, etc, etc. etc. for any of our prospects or even possibly the pick. You want improvement, you have to give to get. And we can't afford more seasons of giving crap to get different crap.

We can continue to try that, or wait on our prospects, but it wont be long until the "trade me out of this hell hole please" rumblings start from RNH, Ebs, Hall, Perron, etc.

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#90 DoubleJ
January 02 2014, 12:53PM
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I'm all over getting a better d instantly. I also think Klefbom has been over hyped from day one. So I have no problems using him to get one.

I do think the oilers will get a better dman at the draft. I keep saying Yandle is the guy. Phoenix is loaded on d, but there's no way hey're going to give him up this season.

The Oilers have the forwards to make this move. Plus Yandle is the best dman that could be available.

So as much as I hate not having a better d. we would get a better dman in the offseason.

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#91 TigerUnderGlass
January 02 2014, 01:17PM
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PutzStew wrote:

Sigh.....

Ok Start with Hall or RNH....

Add a Nurse.....or maybe a Klefbom...

Probably a first rounder....I would want 2014 myself...maybe both 2013 and 2014....

and you might need to include a second rounder...maybe Yak....or Ebs...Gagner...Petry....who knows....

Just think "What would Philly give up for Webber?".....Or NYR?.....San Jose?....Etc......Now you have to beat that.

Eberle is a decent player but not impact enough to be the major part of the trade. Shultz...Same, but worse. Klefbom. He's not even an impact in the AHL and has barely played in the past two seasons. And this years first isn't going to be worth that much, unless it is #1 or #2.

Before you folks make these silly proposals please stop and try to imagine yourself as a fan of the other team....I know it may be hard because no other team has sucked as bad as the Oilers in a really long time....but think to yourself "Would I be willing to accept those Oilers Players in return for this player?"

This line of thinking will make a few of you look much more knowledgeable than you are causing yourselves to look.

Weber aside, what makes you think a player like Hall or RNH needs to be moved to get a #1 defenseman?

They have been traded before, so why don't you take a second and look at what high end defenseman usually go for.

hint: It is NEVER players like Hall and RNH.

I agree that Weber is likely not on the table right now, but your apparent belief that everyone else is an idiot because they don't think it will cost Hall to get a top shelf defenseman is absurd.

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#92 Sisyphus
January 02 2014, 02:03PM
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I see a lot of comments who seem to be rather more interested in staying the course, developing our prospects and picks, etc. Don't trade away our star assets for pieces now, just be patient.

And while I can understand this, I really can--because it will HURT to say goodbye to a quality piece or two to solve needs now--I think people miss the point. That if you DON'T do this now, you take the patient, slow-moving, build for the future approach, you may lose those stars anyways.

By the time our prospects, picks, etc. develop into (hopefully) top-notch NHL quality players, our core guys contracts will be coming up. Anyone here want to tell me they see Hall, or RNH, or Eberle, re-signing here if they've been in a crappy re-build, finishing last or close to it, for the last 5-6 years?

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#93 chuck biscuits
January 02 2014, 02:09PM
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Hi cynic!!!!

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#94 TigerUnderGlass
January 02 2014, 02:14PM
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PutzStew wrote:

The conversation does not involving a # 1 dman, it is involving Webber and Webber's value is going to be much higher then most number one Dmen.

Thinking you could steal Webber for anything less then one of Hall or RNH is absurd.

And no I don't think everyone is an idiot, just people thinking they are going to win a sweepstakes for Webber, using bit parts. If you read the comments I'm not the only one that thinks so.

Here something fun. Fnd some Nashville blog sites and offer them Eberle, Klefbom and this years first for Webber.

Let me know how you make out.

I take it then that you had no luck finding a trade like the one you are suggesting?

So essentially your position is that Weber would be the best defenseman ever traded in the NHL so if he was traded it would be like no other trade we have ever seen?

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#95 Spaceman Spiff
January 02 2014, 02:51PM
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MessyEH! wrote:

Please give examples of 1st overalls who went back to junior?

Mike Modano 23 years ago is the last example.

As for Yak playing in the KHL please explain how that was holding anything above anyone's head. The kid went to his home town to play. To play the Pro game.

Hmm…OK… I accept your challenge. I went as far back to 1980, because before that, the WHA and NHL were in such a battle for underage players that there were 18-year-olds playing professional hockey everywhere from Birmingham, Alabama to Edmonton, Ala-berta.

Admittedly, not all of these are “pure” examples, but that’s only because not everyone who was drafted No. 1 overall came from a Canadian junior team (and, thus, had different rules apply to them in terms of being sent down to the AHL).

So, here we go…

- JOE MURPHY (1986) played five games in his rookie season and 71 in the minors with Adirondack (1986-87). Yes, I know, that’s not “junior,” it’s minor pro. But Murphy was a college kid and he could be sent down to the minors.

- MATS SUNDIN (1989) didn’t make his debut until the fall of 1990. He stayed in Sweden for one more year after his draft year. Again, I know that’s not “junior,” but the point is, he didn’t make the big club straight off his draft year (1989) and did a developmental year back with his drafted team.

- ERIC LINDROS (1991), as we all remember, didn’t make his debut until a year after his draft year. In 1991-92, he played with his junior team in Oshawa, the Canadian national team (this was back when there was one), the Olympic team and the world junior team. Of course, he wasn’t “sent” down. He held out for a trade because that’s what Bonnie and Carl told him to do. But he actually got a pretty decent developmental year in junior and international hockey after he went first overall and before he turned pro.

- ED JOVANOWSKI (1994) went back to the Windsor Spitfires for another year (1994-95, which was a lockout half-year).

- BRYAN BERARD (1995), was sent back to junior after his draft year … which was a small miracle, given that, on the draft floor, he was traded to the Islanders, who traditionally rush picks to the NHL.

- CHRIS PHILLIPS (1996) played another full season in the WHL – in fact, he was traded from Prince Albert to Lethbridge about halfway through it.

- RICK DIPIETRO (2000) played 14 games in the minors in his rookie year, 59 in his second year, and 34 in his third year. Just like Joe Murphy, they could send him to the minors because he was a college kid, not a junior player.

- MARC-ANDRE FLEURY (2003) played 10 games in Cape Breton during his rookie year.

- ALEX OVECHKIN. Oveckin played in Russia for another year. OK, it was the lockout year (2004-05), but again, another case of a buffer year between his draft and his pro year.

- ERIK JOHNSON (2006) played his freshman year at the U of Minnesota after he was drafted from the U.S. Under-18 national development team.

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#96 Spaceman Spiff
January 02 2014, 03:14PM
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Um… I think you folks might be over-estimating Shea Weber’s value a tad.

There are a lot of names being thrown around and it seems like most of you think it’ll take two of Hall, Nuge, Eberle, and J-Schultz, along with Klefbom and the No. 1 pick.

But I can quote some case-law that suggests that a deal for Weber could be done for less than that. And it’s a case involving another trade the Oilers made for adefenceman.

In the summer of 2005, the Oilers traded Eric Brewer, Doug Lynch and Jeff Woywitka for a 30-year-old Chris Pronger.

The Oilers got the league’s best defenceman for a decent No.3/4 defenceman, plus two mid-level prospects.

Yes, I know – the Oilers were taking advantage of some Blues’ cap troubles. But, upon closer examination, the Blues’ troubles weren’t actually that bad.

You’ll recall that, about five minutes after trading for Pronger, the Oilers signed him to a five-year contract worth $31.5 million US ($6.25 million US annually). But what is sometimes forgotten is that, before the trade, the Blues had tendered a qualifying offer to Pronger that would have paid him $7.22 million-per. Their problem was they also made similar offers to Keith Tkachuk and Doug Weight which would have meant that three players would have eaten up almost $20 million of their cap space (at the time, the cap was $39 million).

In other words, the Blues weren’t really in “cap trouble,” but more “cap-inconvenience.” It's my opinion that they could have lived with that arrangement and probably done OK ... but I'm not a GM, and whoever was at the time obviously thought that Pronger was worth one quality NHL rearguard and two middling defensive prospects in a cap-motivated trade.

I’d argue that the Predators could be in the same boat with Weber. And, I’d take it one step further and say that the Preds have a chance to do a better “hockey deal” than the Blues did eight years ago.

Last time I checked, the Preds score at a rate of one goal a week. Eberle plus Klefbom plus the No. 1 pick should just about do it. Honestly. These are the deals that get made nowadays.

Hall plus Nuge plus Klefbom plus the No. 1 pick? Don’t be silly, people. The Oilers didn’t get that for No. 99.

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#97 thefoz
January 02 2014, 03:18PM
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@Spydyr

Yeah it certainly might be - but it being an overpay doesn't necessarily mean it's not what the market is for that player. You think Eberle+1st would get it done?

I'd be inclined to agree that a lesser deal could be found if the Oilers were willing to wait until Subban's contract situation potentially deteriorated, but I think this is a package that would be hard to turn down and would make the Oilers significantly better immediately, and for the next 10 years.

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#98 thefoz
January 02 2014, 04:07PM
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Spydyr wrote:

It should but again I would not trade the first until I knew what it was.Ekblad may end up being a better player then Subban and you have given them Eberle also.

As for this part:

He may, he may also end up being a bust. Subban is a Norris winner with a proven record of excellence for going on three seasons now. He's the real deal, and the Oilers need a few more of those and a few less 'could be great's' in the organization at this time.

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#99 Spydyr
January 02 2014, 04:14PM
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thefoz wrote:

As for this part:

He may, he may also end up being a bust. Subban is a Norris winner with a proven record of excellence for going on three seasons now. He's the real deal, and the Oilers need a few more of those and a few less 'could be great's' in the organization at this time.

IMO Subban was not the best defencemen last year Suter was my guy.The Olympic player committee may agree if they leave him off team Canada.

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#100 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
January 02 2014, 04:52PM
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Serious Gord wrote:

In light of the Gleason trade and the Phaneuf and ference signings I think it's fair to say that the position that is undergoing the highest appreciation rate is the seasoned top four defenseman. (ference isn't even a solid top four and he got paid pretty big dough for being a 4-5 player)

That teams who lack strength in said top 1-4 players are all struggling in the standings justifies the rapid inflation rate and that is exacerbated by the looming big jump in cap room.

That begets two things:

1. Getting a player of the quality EDM needs cannot be done via Free agency - no potential candidate is coming of their own free will to a team that has so many non-monetary liabilities.

2. It is going to take some stones on MacT's part to consummate a deal as he will have to give up assets and take on cap commitments that will be viewed by the vast majority of oil fans as being a massive overpay. MacT has already shown a chronic tendency to overvalue the assets he has or knows - gagner, grebs and many many others - so I doubt he is prepared to take the plunge unless its prospects like klefbom or perhaps a player who is at odds with management (yak). And the latter has happened several times before so i suspect it may happen again.

And, while there is some merit to making a move at the deadline - motivated trade partners, time during this season to acclimatize the team and get a better start next year - i think it would be a big mistake.

Like it or not tanking for the rest of the season should be the goal - sadly the only advantage to having a disastrous season - the remainder of the year. to play their way out of a top five pick - a pick that could get that high-end defenseman or some other desperately needed asset would be a silly, face-saving gesture that goes against the long-term interests of the team.

That and the fact that there will be many more options available in the off-season than there will be at the trade deadline.

I think MacT is prepared to overpay and I don't think he thinks he can afford to let any opportunity go untapped.....I believe he will be in the thick of things at the deadline in both directions....moving players out and moving players in......of course many other teams will be trying to outbid him...we'll see if the prep work he's doing now pays off or not.

It's almost certain that the majority of Oilers fans will not be happy with the overpays....but it will take an overpay to make anything significant happen in our favour.

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