Comparing Coaches

Jonathan Willis
January 22 2014 10:32AM

Coaching has been an oft-discussed potential reason for the Edmonton Oilers’ collapse this season. While nobody claims that it is coaching and coaching alone that has the Oilers where they are, some wonder whether general manager Craig MacTavish didn’t make a mistake when he chose Dallas Eakins to replace Ralph Krueger.

How does Eakins’ team compare with that of Krueger, and of Tom Renney at five-on-five?

The Comparison

What is needed for a fair comparison between coaches? A level playing field. Because Ralph Krueger’s Oilers only played against Western Conference teams, we will only consider Oilers games played against Western opponents in 2011-12 and this season.

That introduces another problem. Eakins’ Oilers have played 19 games on the road against Western teams, but only 11 at home. To compensate for that, we will be weighting his home and road games equally so out analysis isn’t impacted by an unbalanced schedule.

What should we compare? We’ll run the gamut of five-on-five statistics: shots, Fenwick (shots + missed shots), Corsi (all shot attempts) and good old goals. All numbers will be expressed as a percentage of total events – in other words, 50 percent represents the break-even mark and a higher number is better. We will also include shooting percentage and save percentage.

Tom Renney

Ralph Krueger

Dallas Eakins

Head-To-Head-To-Head

Tom Renney comes out looking awfully good here. Steve Tambellini never offered an actual explanation of what he thought Renney was doing wrong behind the bench when he fired the veteran coach, but it is abundantly clear in hindsight that canning Renney was the wrong move. The Oilers did a better job at getting shot attempts, and getting shot attempts through without them being blocked, of getting shots on net, and of scoring goals under Renney than they would under either of his successors. If one believes (as I do) that Renney had the weakest roster of the three coaches, it’s impossible to look at this without thinking he did an awfully good job.

Ralph Krueger vs. Dallas Eakins is where it gets interesting. Eakins’ team did a better job of generating shot attempts, but Krueger’s did better work getting them through to the opposition net. Krueger’s teams also did a better job of winning the goals battle, in large part because the team shooting and save percentages were better.

Eakins’ home/road splits are compelling. At home, Eakins’ team is pretty competitive with Renney’s in the shot metrics, but on the road the numbers fall apart to a degree not seen under previous coaches. I don’t have an explanation for that; it’s something I’m going to watch for in future games but the difference suggests that whatever Eakins is doing on the road isn’t working at all.

The other item to note here is the save percentage splits – that the goalies’ terrible play isolated to home games suggests to me that the bad goaltending this year isn’t necessarily driven by team defence. By that, I mean that while the Oilers allow way more shots than the league average, there seems to be little reason to believe that they’re consistently allowing higher quality chances than other teams. Certainly they weren’t under Renney or Krueger; it’s possible that Eakins is doing something bizarre but I don’t think it’s likely.

Would Edmonton be better off with Tom Renney behind the bench? I think so, yes, potentially much better off (particularly given the benefits of continuity). Would they be better off with Krueger than Eakins? I don’t know, but I believe there’s a strong learning curve for any rookie NHL head coach, and Krueger already had a year under his belt. That has to be balanced against MacTavish getting a guy suited to his style of managing, so I’m not sure there’s a definite answer here.

Both Eakins and Krueger strike me as intelligent, motivated coaches; I think Krueger would have figured things out eventually and I believe Eakins still will, but the big mistake here was making Renney a scapegoat for problems that weren’t of his creation.

Recently by Jonathan Willis

74b7cedc5d8bfbe88cf071309e98d2c3
Jonathan Willis is a freelance writer. He currently works for Oilers Nation, Sportsnet, the Edmonton Journal and Bleacher Report. He's co-written three books and worked for myriad websites, including Grantland, ESPN, The Score, and Hockey Prospectus. He was previously the founder and managing editor of Copper & Blue.
Avatar
#201 I AM KEVIN L.
January 23 2014, 04:39AM
Trash it!
29
trashes
Cheers
8
cheers

So what? Comparing coaches now? Really? What does it accomplish? Oh my! Eakins is not the better coach of the last 5 head coaches? Wanna bring back someone? Rubbish!!! You have the team you all deserve!!! Suck it up oilers fans! Maybe we will get better by 2017-18.......

Avatar
#202 Stranger
January 23 2014, 06:37AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
33
cheers

Who is the Oilers goalie coach?

Interesting Devon D's new coach talked about some bad habits that DD has and as a result the coach is getting his goalie coach to start doing some extensive work with DD to correct these bad habits.

Avatar
#203 The Towel Boy
January 23 2014, 08:17AM
Trash it!
7
trashes
Cheers
7
cheers

This article makes me so MAD!!!

Avatar
#204 Hemmercules
January 23 2014, 08:36AM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
20
cheers

The Oilers need a new coach, a different system, new assistant coaches, new goalie coaches, a new defense, more bigger better forwards, new goalies and new management. They can do all that in one summer right?? right???

What a mess. The Oilers make me sad but after investing the better part of my life being a fan its impossible to start liking other teams now. I just want to love hockey again and right now I can barely watch this train wreck.

Avatar
#205 outdoorzguy
January 23 2014, 08:41AM
Trash it!
5
trashes
Cheers
10
cheers

Mr. Katz has more pressing problems to worry about in real life than his fantasy hockey world regarding the theft of medical information;

Katz Group of Companies bought Medicenters, they also own thousands of pharmacies, Rexal for instance. They hired ZoomMed to link the two through technology...The "ZRx Prescriber" is a Web application that runs on a pocket computer or a PC. The tool is used by physicians to fill out prescriptions and make them available to pharmacists, who can view them online via unique barcodes and confirm them using the physician's signed copy. The " ZRx Prescriber " also gives physicians access to a portable source of medical information generated by the pharmaceutical companies...Katz profits from the Medicenters and ensures that prescriptions are filled at Katz pharmacies.

There's no rush right now to fire Lowe or Eakins. Maybe if we could get Katz to fire Redford and Horne, then that would be progress!!

Boycott all Katz owned properties.

Avatar
#206 outdoorzguy
January 23 2014, 08:48AM
Trash it!
3
trashes
Cheers
17
cheers
Stranger wrote:

Who is the Oilers goalie coach?

Interesting Devon D's new coach talked about some bad habits that DD has and as a result the coach is getting his goalie coach to start doing some extensive work with DD to correct these bad habits.

Fred Chabot. Played 32 NHL games in a 17 year pro career. Sounds like the perfect qualifications for the Oilers!!

Avatar
#207 goodidea
January 23 2014, 08:50AM
Trash it!
5
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers

The coach has to make all the players in the dressing room carry their sticks everywhere they go all the time until we make the playoffs,I'm serious!!!!.......it will help.it doesn't matter if your wife doesn't like it or you look funny carrying it all over town, people will understand.

This tactic will help form a team so it doesn't matter that you played almost 20years of hockey you should be first to grab your stick and do this, this team needs to get better and it starts buy acting like a team and playing like a team.

The Oiler need to practice there shots 12hrs a day no kidding, this is not a summer job it's a career and if winning is important then do this, the oilers will get so good at taking shoots and everyone on the team will want to show what they got.

I know they have lives but why not enjoy it by winning, I know at first its not a fun thing to do but when we start winning you wont want to let go of your stick, then the cup.

Avatar
#208 Wonger
January 23 2014, 08:52AM
Trash it!
35
trashes
Cheers
14
cheers

Ten years ahead Dallas Eakins will be regarded as an elite,very successful NHL coach like his mentor Roger Nielson. I hope and pray it is here with the Oilers. MacT and Eakins will fix this mess! They are both WINNERS with CHARACTER second to none. You can't teach that. You are born with it! I am as frustrated as any Oiler fan, but I believe in these men and see many positive changes coming at this years trade deadline and over the summer! I think some of the moves, or the number of moves, will shock us and amaze us! Go Oilers! I am staying the course! I believe in the Oiler's future because I believe in MACT and EAKINS!!!

Avatar
#209 China town man
January 23 2014, 09:23AM
Trash it!
6
trashes
Cheers
9
cheers

My buddy from Calgary text me. Hey China town man What is the difference between your Oilers and my flames I replied what is it, he tells me both our team sucks but the only difference is the flames organization has more brains than ours. I haven't replied..

Avatar
#210 Bloodsweatandoil
January 23 2014, 09:26AM
Trash it!
8
trashes
Cheers
19
cheers
Wonger wrote:

Ten years ahead Dallas Eakins will be regarded as an elite,very successful NHL coach like his mentor Roger Nielson. I hope and pray it is here with the Oilers. MacT and Eakins will fix this mess! They are both WINNERS with CHARACTER second to none. You can't teach that. You are born with it! I am as frustrated as any Oiler fan, but I believe in these men and see many positive changes coming at this years trade deadline and over the summer! I think some of the moves, or the number of moves, will shock us and amaze us! Go Oilers! I am staying the course! I believe in the Oiler's future because I believe in MACT and EAKINS!!!

Are you kidding me? You are drowning in your koolaid that you just puked up....

Avatar
#211 pkam
January 23 2014, 09:43AM
Trash it!
8
trashes
Cheers
5
cheers
Mack Strong wrote:

Pkam

Do you read the posts or do you just get defensive as soon as you see that people reply to you?

All I was trying to say was Renney went to a team that sees his knowledge and patience and it fit their philosophy.

I never implied that the Oilers don't have a philosophy…i only said that the one they have is very confusing and seems to lack direction.

I don't even know how to address the rest of the vomit you spewed onto that post. So i won't…..

Love the OIL. Love the NATION

Your first reply to my speculation why Tambo didn't renew Renney's contract is

'The implication is that we dropped him and it was not long after that Detroit picked him up.', followed up by how well Detroit manage, draft, trade and develop.

And follow with this: 'Sure you can say its Holland or Babcock or Zetterberg or Datsyuk (both of which were 7th and 6th round picks and developed from within) and the list goes on and on. They add to and develop. WE ARE NOT DOING EITHER!!'

So the implication I get is the Oilers are so clueless that we let go a quality coach that an organization which is excellent in management, drafting , trading and development has no hesitation to recruit.

I disagree with my argument that many teams, including conference finalist and recent SC winners, not just the Oilers did the same. And the coach they let go immediately get a new head coach job, not just an associate coach job. And my point is in most cases the firing of the coach has nothing to do with the quality of the coach, but the fact that the GM is under fire to do something or he is the one canned.

I also disagree with your example of Datsyuk and Zetterberg to prove that the Wings draft well. They did draft exceptionally well in 1989, but not in the two years they draft Datsyuk and Zetterberg. In 1998, they have 10 picks, only their 1st rounder and Datsyuk become NHLer. Datsyuk was 6th rounder so it looks like they did a good job. But Datsyuk was their 8th pick in that draft, and only one of the 7 picks before him makes it to NHL? There were 2 2nd, a 3rd, and I don't care about the picks after the 3rd round, I just don't think it is really that good.

Then you said they develop the 2 players within. Neither of them played one AHL game. They came right from Europe to the big club.

You said they develop and we don't. The fact is Lander and Klefbom are currently in OKC, while Datsyuk and Zetterberg had not spent one game in AHL.

You said they made bold trades and we don't. So Pronger trade is not bold? We even tried to force a trade with an offersheet which gave 4 1st rounder to Sabres for Vanek but Sabres matched it. We tried to get Heatley but stopped by his NTC. The fact is the management did try but it didn't work out for various reasons.

Most of those bold move that you quote, if it is available to the Oilers management, I don't think they will hesitate to make it. For example, Kozlov (1st rd) for Hasek. Kozlov is a small 50 pts forward, right? What would be an equivalent player in our current roster? How about Sam Gagner? The Wings draft pick was a very late 1st rounder, it will be similar to our very early 2nd rounder. Hasek at that time will be today's Lundqvist Or Rinne or Rask. If the Rangers or the Preds or the Bruins are willing to trade their starting goalie to us for Gagner and our 2nd, I doubt our management will hesitate. It will be the steal of the year. Too bad such trade is not available to us. Canucks traded away Schneider for a 9th overall, but asked us a 7th plus the 37th plus a high prospect for the same goalie. I guess it is also the fault of our management for not willing to hugely overpay to make that bold move.

I just disagree with your opinions and with my own reasons. If you to think that is defensive, so be it. I am not going to swallow your vomit.

Avatar
#212 pkam
January 23 2014, 09:49AM
Trash it!
5
trashes
Cheers
5
cheers
outdoorzguy wrote:

Mr. Katz has more pressing problems to worry about in real life than his fantasy hockey world regarding the theft of medical information;

Katz Group of Companies bought Medicenters, they also own thousands of pharmacies, Rexal for instance. They hired ZoomMed to link the two through technology...The "ZRx Prescriber" is a Web application that runs on a pocket computer or a PC. The tool is used by physicians to fill out prescriptions and make them available to pharmacists, who can view them online via unique barcodes and confirm them using the physician's signed copy. The " ZRx Prescriber " also gives physicians access to a portable source of medical information generated by the pharmaceutical companies...Katz profits from the Medicenters and ensures that prescriptions are filled at Katz pharmacies.

There's no rush right now to fire Lowe or Eakins. Maybe if we could get Katz to fire Redford and Horne, then that would be progress!!

Boycott all Katz owned properties.

Boycott Medicenter? Are you nuts? What do you do if you don't have a family doctor? Go to the emergency and die there?

Avatar
#213 S cottV
January 23 2014, 09:54AM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
10
cheers

It's not looking good for Eakins, when he comes out in the paper - declaring that his job is on the line.

That is pretty much pleading with the player group to buy in / step it up and save his @ss.

I doubt that the player group responds to the extent that might be necessary.

All indications are that the player group is under achieving to at least some degree. Coach leadership is the major factor that governs where performance falls between the spectrum of under achievement and over achievement.

The coaches job is to get the most out of the player group - to extract over achievement. Eakins has had enough time to try and get his message across, to achieve buy in and to extract at least some signs of player group over achievement.

I am not sure that there is even one aspect surrounding the way the club is playing, that you can point at and declare some over achievement in this area or that area.

The overall record certainly points to under achievement by anyones standards. Oilers are at .346 and the Sabres at .344

Over achievement and the club is probably pushing on a .500 record.

Pushing his suspect agenda on the player group from the get go and having it blow up to the point that he needed to backpeddle out of things, really hurt his credibility. He bit off way more than was necessary or appropriate for the circumstances at hand and ended up having to throw it up - let alone chew it.

Like others - I have been saying for a long time that Eakins is in over his head and never should have been put in this position in the first place.

The right Coach with the right stuff - could do a lot better.

Avatar
#214 pkam
January 23 2014, 10:04AM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
6
cheers
Zarny wrote:

The only real difference between the Avs and the Oilers is the top pairing D.

Just in case anyone was curious what a real top pairing D can do for a young team.

Erik Johnson is a beast. A 6'4" 232 lb beast who can skate.

Jan Hejda isn't a sexy name, but he's better than any D in Edm. He also happens to be 6'4" 237 lbs.

Roy isn't the difference. Roy's ability to throw Hejda-Johnson out for half the game is.

Eakins gets to counter with Ference-Petry.

I disagree. Their defense core is better than ours but still one of the weakest group.

The 2 main reasons in my opinion,

1. Their top 6 are bigger, more physical, more mature, and more responsible defensively

2. Their 2 goalies are playing out of their mind this year, especially at the beginning of the season.

Avatar
#215 Wonger
January 23 2014, 10:21AM
Trash it!
9
trashes
Cheers
4
cheers
Bloodsweatandoil wrote:

Are you kidding me? You are drowning in your koolaid that you just puked up....

By next year at this time you will know I was right on the money!!!! P.S. I don't drink koolaid - I prefer Heineken or expensive scotch like Bushmills!

Avatar
#216 BingBong
January 23 2014, 10:21AM
Trash it!
7
trashes
Cheers
7
cheers

Sorry, this is off-topic...but I was reading today about how Pitt should consider trading Letang for a legitimate top line forward.

What do people think of Eberle for Letang? Obviously don't like losing Ebs, but Letang is a legitimate top pairing guy who brings offense and plays lots of minutes.

Avatar
#217 pkam
January 23 2014, 10:25AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
4
cheers
BingBong wrote:

Sorry, this is off-topic...but I was reading today about how Pitt should consider trading Letang for a legitimate top line forward.

What do people think of Eberle for Letang? Obviously don't like losing Ebs, but Letang is a legitimate top pairing guy who brings offense and plays lots of minutes.

I'll even add a 3rd rounder, or next year 2nd rounder to sweeten the pot. But I doubt that will be enough.

IMO, Letang is a mature version of J. Schultz, if J. Schultz pans out. The only thing I don't like is his 7.5M contract.

Avatar
#218 tileguy
January 23 2014, 10:27AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
5
cheers
Johnnydapunk wrote:

So.... How many balls do we get in the lottery to try and win Ekblad?

I don't know what the Oil should do now, I mean there is nothing to play for, pride was long gone and there are no more loser records to play for (fewest points in a season or most losses or fewest wins) so I don't really know what is best here.

Do the Oil just poop the bed properly and make sure they end up at the bottom for the best chance at winning the lottery of try to build something for next year and risk ruining their chances for Ekblad, or try to make the Oil a semi decent option for UFAs (potential and all that blah blah) ?

I'm kindof torn at this point, losing doesn't phase me anymore and a win now just papers over the horrible cracks and makes it harder for certain management types to see what the problems are.

It's not easy being an Oil fan nowadays. I miss the 80s.

Well said, looks like we are at the stage of acceptance although some are still at denial and anger.

Avatar
#219 Wonger Again
January 23 2014, 10:31AM
Trash it!
15
trashes
Cheers
4
cheers
Wonger wrote:

By next year at this time you will know I was right on the money!!!! P.S. I don't drink koolaid - I prefer Heineken or expensive scotch like Bushmills!

If you talk to high level NHL insiders, like I do on a regular basis, you would know that no GM outworks MACT - he is relentless, on a daily basis ,trying to pursue trades to make this team better. He regularly puts in 16-18 hour days! Eakins is also a tireless worker - trying to better himself, and a a result, benefit the Oilers! THESE MEN WILL NOT GIVE UP TRYING TO MAKE THIS TEAM BETTER!!!! I have all of the RESPECT in the world for both of them - like many ppeople in the hockey world do and more Oiler Nation Bloggers should! THEY WILL NOT QUIT and THEY WILL BE SUCCESSFUL!!!!

Avatar
#220 Ed in Edmonton
January 23 2014, 10:43AM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
8
cheers
Wonger Again wrote:

If you talk to high level NHL insiders, like I do on a regular basis, you would know that no GM outworks MACT - he is relentless, on a daily basis ,trying to pursue trades to make this team better. He regularly puts in 16-18 hour days! Eakins is also a tireless worker - trying to better himself, and a a result, benefit the Oilers! THESE MEN WILL NOT GIVE UP TRYING TO MAKE THIS TEAM BETTER!!!! I have all of the RESPECT in the world for both of them - like many ppeople in the hockey world do and more Oiler Nation Bloggers should! THEY WILL NOT QUIT and THEY WILL BE SUCCESSFUL!!!!

Its great if they work hard, it is very admirable. However, they must deliver the goods. Your comment sounds much like the SN talking heads on Tuesday that were aghast that anyone could be upset with Lowe. After all he is a pillar of the community, bleeds copper and blue. This all might be true, but if you don't deliver the goods...

In my real life I have had employees who worked their butts off but just couldn't deliver the goods. Ultimately you can't keep them as they will drag down the entire group.

I have not called for MacT or Eakins head, as I see them as no more than possible symptoms, the root cause lies higher up.

P.S. Old Retire Guy, do you still think I work for the Oil?

Avatar
#221 Bloodsweatandoil
January 23 2014, 10:47AM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
4
cheers

@Wonger

Well Wonger, Patience has run thin to nil with good reason. The tone of these threads and posts are greatly warranted. I just feel that your post was something that a Carebear would say, and that it was way too late and the wrong place. What kind of response did you hope to illicit? Go to Leafs Nation, they probably have a good glee club.

Avatar
#222 Mustangheart
January 23 2014, 10:48AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
Woogie63 wrote:

Bob Nicholson is the best available candidate for our POHO.

POHO should work with + 5 year contract, so he can set the strategy for the long term.

Good Choice, but how to pull him out of Calgary when they are in a rebuild stage? Who else??

Avatar
#223 outdoorzguy
January 23 2014, 10:50AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
8
cheers
pkam wrote:

Boycott Medicenter? Are you nuts? What do you do if you don't have a family doctor? Go to the emergency and die there?

Well the slow death of the Oilers is just as bad as waiting at a Medicentre!!

Avatar
#224 outdoorzguy
January 23 2014, 10:51AM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers
China town man wrote:

My buddy from Calgary text me. Hey China town man What is the difference between your Oilers and my flames I replied what is it, he tells me both our team sucks but the only difference is the flames organization has more brains than ours. I haven't replied..

You can't!!

Avatar
#225 Mustangheart
January 23 2014, 10:52AM
Trash it!
7
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers
BingBong wrote:

Sorry, this is off-topic...but I was reading today about how Pitt should consider trading Letang for a legitimate top line forward.

What do people think of Eberle for Letang? Obviously don't like losing Ebs, but Letang is a legitimate top pairing guy who brings offense and plays lots of minutes.

I personally would hate to loose Hall, Eberle, Hopkins, Perron, JShultz, but I would use the rest of the team as trade bait to get Letang. He would be an excellent asset.

Avatar
#226 Wonger
January 23 2014, 10:56AM
Trash it!
13
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers
Bloodsweatandoil wrote:

Well Wonger, Patience has run thin to nil with good reason. The tone of these threads and posts are greatly warranted. I just feel that your post was something that a Carebear would say, and that it was way too late and the wrong place. What kind of response did you hope to illicit? Go to Leafs Nation, they probably have a good glee club.

Ask Ken Hitchcock what he thinks of MACT and EAKINS! He feels exactly like I do! ....and there are dozens more in the hockey world who agree 100% with me as well. YOU CAN GO TO LEAFS NATION and take all of your NEGATIVITY with you!!!!

Avatar
#227 Joe Mamma
January 23 2014, 11:40AM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
10
cheers
Wonger wrote:

Ask Ken Hitchcock what he thinks of MACT and EAKINS! He feels exactly like I do! ....and there are dozens more in the hockey world who agree 100% with me as well. YOU CAN GO TO LEAFS NATION and take all of your NEGATIVITY with you!!!!

Hitch is notorious for pumping the tires of the competition to lull them into a false sense of security, so even assuming you do actually know what hitchcock has to say about these two, it's not exactly a ringing endorsement.

You're delusional.

Avatar
#228 pkam
January 23 2014, 11:47AM
Trash it!
5
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
outdoorzguy wrote:

Well the slow death of the Oilers is just as bad as waiting at a Medicentre!!

The slow death of the Oilers was between 2007 and 2010. Now it is a slow recovery. It may not as fast as you want but it is still a recovery.

Avatar
#229 Bloodsweatandoil
January 23 2014, 11:53AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
6
cheers
Wonger wrote:

Ask Ken Hitchcock what he thinks of MACT and EAKINS! He feels exactly like I do! ....and there are dozens more in the hockey world who agree 100% with me as well. YOU CAN GO TO LEAFS NATION and take all of your NEGATIVITY with you!!!!

I will continue to be a realist

Avatar
#230 S cottV
January 23 2014, 12:57PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
9
cheers
Joe Mamma wrote:

Hitch is notorious for pumping the tires of the competition to lull them into a false sense of security, so even assuming you do actually know what hitchcock has to say about these two, it's not exactly a ringing endorsement.

You're delusional.

Absolutely agee.

Hitch is a master at mind games.

So much so - that some consider it a weakness.

He is no doubt blowing smoke on the MacT / Eakins support.

While second hand, I dont doubt the source who said Hitch told him some time ago, that he would have loved an opportunity to Coach the Oilers.

Further said that it would never happen because the Oilers would not let him do it his way...

Avatar
#231 DSF
January 23 2014, 01:08PM
Trash it!
3
trashes
Cheers
3
cheers

What if the Wonger is Hitch??? Anything is possible!

Avatar
#232 Wonger
January 23 2014, 01:11PM
Trash it!
4
trashes
Cheers
4
cheers
DSF wrote:

What if the Wonger is Hitch??? Anything is possible!

I may be rich and famous, and have more chins than a Vancouver phone book - but I am definitely not Hitch! That being said - I love Hitch as a person and coach - he could coach or manage my team any day!!!!!!

Avatar
#233 Bryzarro World
January 23 2014, 01:24PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
6
cheers
pkam wrote:

Your first reply to my speculation why Tambo didn't renew Renney's contract is

'The implication is that we dropped him and it was not long after that Detroit picked him up.', followed up by how well Detroit manage, draft, trade and develop.

And follow with this: 'Sure you can say its Holland or Babcock or Zetterberg or Datsyuk (both of which were 7th and 6th round picks and developed from within) and the list goes on and on. They add to and develop. WE ARE NOT DOING EITHER!!'

So the implication I get is the Oilers are so clueless that we let go a quality coach that an organization which is excellent in management, drafting , trading and development has no hesitation to recruit.

I disagree with my argument that many teams, including conference finalist and recent SC winners, not just the Oilers did the same. And the coach they let go immediately get a new head coach job, not just an associate coach job. And my point is in most cases the firing of the coach has nothing to do with the quality of the coach, but the fact that the GM is under fire to do something or he is the one canned.

I also disagree with your example of Datsyuk and Zetterberg to prove that the Wings draft well. They did draft exceptionally well in 1989, but not in the two years they draft Datsyuk and Zetterberg. In 1998, they have 10 picks, only their 1st rounder and Datsyuk become NHLer. Datsyuk was 6th rounder so it looks like they did a good job. But Datsyuk was their 8th pick in that draft, and only one of the 7 picks before him makes it to NHL? There were 2 2nd, a 3rd, and I don't care about the picks after the 3rd round, I just don't think it is really that good.

Then you said they develop the 2 players within. Neither of them played one AHL game. They came right from Europe to the big club.

You said they develop and we don't. The fact is Lander and Klefbom are currently in OKC, while Datsyuk and Zetterberg had not spent one game in AHL.

You said they made bold trades and we don't. So Pronger trade is not bold? We even tried to force a trade with an offersheet which gave 4 1st rounder to Sabres for Vanek but Sabres matched it. We tried to get Heatley but stopped by his NTC. The fact is the management did try but it didn't work out for various reasons.

Most of those bold move that you quote, if it is available to the Oilers management, I don't think they will hesitate to make it. For example, Kozlov (1st rd) for Hasek. Kozlov is a small 50 pts forward, right? What would be an equivalent player in our current roster? How about Sam Gagner? The Wings draft pick was a very late 1st rounder, it will be similar to our very early 2nd rounder. Hasek at that time will be today's Lundqvist Or Rinne or Rask. If the Rangers or the Preds or the Bruins are willing to trade their starting goalie to us for Gagner and our 2nd, I doubt our management will hesitate. It will be the steal of the year. Too bad such trade is not available to us. Canucks traded away Schneider for a 9th overall, but asked us a 7th plus the 37th plus a high prospect for the same goalie. I guess it is also the fault of our management for not willing to hugely overpay to make that bold move.

I just disagree with your opinions and with my own reasons. If you to think that is defensive, so be it. I am not going to swallow your vomit.

I stopped reading this after the pronged trade. Ya... REALLY BOLD!! The bold move would have been to sit his crying ass and get a good return, not cave and trade for garbage....

Avatar
#234 pkam
January 23 2014, 04:02PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
Bryzarro World wrote:

I stopped reading this after the pronged trade. Ya... REALLY BOLD!! The bold move would have been to sit his crying ass and get a good return, not cave and trade for garbage....

I mean the trade for Pronger. That is not bold?

Avatar
#235 Bryzarro World
January 23 2014, 05:45PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
6
cheers
pkam wrote:

I mean the trade for Pronger. That is not bold?

Sorry, I misunderstood.

Just so fired up with this garbage that I'm seeing red. I stopped spending a dime on them, barely watch anymore and I'm almost to the point where I'm saying goodbye forever if Katz doesn't straighten out.

Lowe has to go. His poison has spread throughout the Org and he has shown that he isn't right to spearhead a franchise. I am willing to give MacT a chance but it is hard for me to overlook the way he screwed Ralph. Eakins, we'll, I don't think he is right for the NHL, at least not right now. He is an arrogant ass that thought the Ahl was the same and got his ass fed to him. He needs to step.away and take the two pylons with him. I won't even get started on the players but they are all the product of Lowe...

As for the trade to bring Pronger here, yes it was a bold move but blew up in his face just like everything else.

Avatar
#236 Death Metal Nightmare
January 24 2014, 10:38AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Renney ran a boring, cold and calculated defensive system. they wanted an identity change to fit the teams "direction" of high speed offense. let the leash off a little. Renney was closer to a Mac-T clone in philosophy of the game. he also came across as a robot (similar to Eakins macho robot facade at age 40-million. get over yourself.) who tried to sound smart using a dull/inaccurate DNA metaphor as often as possible.

i really enjoy the "under these coaches players decide to throw the puck into shin pads more" stat. what a crock of garbage for correlation = causation. you'd think dudes who have been on skates since 4+ years old would know to find lanes, shoot around defenders, etc...

"nope, it all comes down to who is coaching them and the system theyre in that generates how stupid players become."

there's so many things to factor in here (over the course of all these coaches) other than just straight statistical comparisons. reduction to numbers = fallacy... even though the author wants it to be his lens to absolute abstracted knowledge.

Avatar
#237 shaddup
January 24 2014, 05:36PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
shaddup wrote:

Your sarcasm is either so subtle,so cunning and passive aggressive that it went over my head in it's implausible ironic tone...or, you have just written, by far, the most naive comment to grace this forum...

Either way, I am in utter awe...well done Sir.

edit. very well done

Avatar
#238 Fire the coach!
January 24 2014, 08:18PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers

PATHETIC! How long will it take to get rid of Aikiens?

Comments are closed for this article.