Comparing Coaches

Jonathan Willis
January 22 2014 10:32AM

Coaching has been an oft-discussed potential reason for the Edmonton Oilers’ collapse this season. While nobody claims that it is coaching and coaching alone that has the Oilers where they are, some wonder whether general manager Craig MacTavish didn’t make a mistake when he chose Dallas Eakins to replace Ralph Krueger.

How does Eakins’ team compare with that of Krueger, and of Tom Renney at five-on-five?

The Comparison

What is needed for a fair comparison between coaches? A level playing field. Because Ralph Krueger’s Oilers only played against Western Conference teams, we will only consider Oilers games played against Western opponents in 2011-12 and this season.

That introduces another problem. Eakins’ Oilers have played 19 games on the road against Western teams, but only 11 at home. To compensate for that, we will be weighting his home and road games equally so out analysis isn’t impacted by an unbalanced schedule.

What should we compare? We’ll run the gamut of five-on-five statistics: shots, Fenwick (shots + missed shots), Corsi (all shot attempts) and good old goals. All numbers will be expressed as a percentage of total events – in other words, 50 percent represents the break-even mark and a higher number is better. We will also include shooting percentage and save percentage.

Tom Renney

Ralph Krueger

Dallas Eakins

Head-To-Head-To-Head

Tom Renney comes out looking awfully good here. Steve Tambellini never offered an actual explanation of what he thought Renney was doing wrong behind the bench when he fired the veteran coach, but it is abundantly clear in hindsight that canning Renney was the wrong move. The Oilers did a better job at getting shot attempts, and getting shot attempts through without them being blocked, of getting shots on net, and of scoring goals under Renney than they would under either of his successors. If one believes (as I do) that Renney had the weakest roster of the three coaches, it’s impossible to look at this without thinking he did an awfully good job.

Ralph Krueger vs. Dallas Eakins is where it gets interesting. Eakins’ team did a better job of generating shot attempts, but Krueger’s did better work getting them through to the opposition net. Krueger’s teams also did a better job of winning the goals battle, in large part because the team shooting and save percentages were better.

Eakins’ home/road splits are compelling. At home, Eakins’ team is pretty competitive with Renney’s in the shot metrics, but on the road the numbers fall apart to a degree not seen under previous coaches. I don’t have an explanation for that; it’s something I’m going to watch for in future games but the difference suggests that whatever Eakins is doing on the road isn’t working at all.

The other item to note here is the save percentage splits – that the goalies’ terrible play isolated to home games suggests to me that the bad goaltending this year isn’t necessarily driven by team defence. By that, I mean that while the Oilers allow way more shots than the league average, there seems to be little reason to believe that they’re consistently allowing higher quality chances than other teams. Certainly they weren’t under Renney or Krueger; it’s possible that Eakins is doing something bizarre but I don’t think it’s likely.

Would Edmonton be better off with Tom Renney behind the bench? I think so, yes, potentially much better off (particularly given the benefits of continuity). Would they be better off with Krueger than Eakins? I don’t know, but I believe there’s a strong learning curve for any rookie NHL head coach, and Krueger already had a year under his belt. That has to be balanced against MacTavish getting a guy suited to his style of managing, so I’m not sure there’s a definite answer here.

Both Eakins and Krueger strike me as intelligent, motivated coaches; I think Krueger would have figured things out eventually and I believe Eakins still will, but the big mistake here was making Renney a scapegoat for problems that weren’t of his creation.

Recently by Jonathan Willis

74b7cedc5d8bfbe88cf071309e98d2c3
Jonathan Willis is a freelance writer. He currently works for Oilers Nation, Sportsnet, the Edmonton Journal and Bleacher Report. He's co-written three books and worked for myriad websites, including Grantland, ESPN, The Score, and Hockey Prospectus. He was previously the founder and managing editor of Copper & Blue.
Avatar
#151 admiralmark
January 22 2014, 07:01PM
Trash it!
25
trashes
Cheers
5
cheers

So what you are is Renney and Krueger likely would of done as well or better then the Coaches they were fired for.

I'd like every single poster on here that screams "yearly" for the coach to be fired to possibly give your head a shake.

ITS NOT THE COACH! its the lack of NHL talent on the Oilers roster. Especially on D.

Avatar
#152 junior
January 22 2014, 07:51PM
Trash it!
16
trashes
Cheers
5
cheers
Max wrote:

Firing Eakins will send the message that it's not the team's fault. He should stay and give continuity. In some ways it's not ENTIRELY their fault. The fault lies with the goalie coach, the special teams' coach and the defense coach. Read as KB, SS and FC. THEY have been around for the losing seasons, they are the ones who can't seem to develop the younger players (read as Gagner x 7 years) and others. I think Eakins is on the right track, but the assistants are NOT his choice, and need to be replaced, along with the amateur AND pro scouting teams. Truth be known - it broke my heart when Tom was fired - he did nothing wrong - I think it was Bumbellini's call, if HE had been fired first, probably Tom would still be with us, and we'd be a damned sight higher in the standings this year.

Broke your heart? Two coaches ago? Are you okay now? Should we hold a vigil for ya? Maybe a fun-run with profits going to your re-hab sessions?

Nut up buttercup, next you'll be regaling us with your thoughts on love story vampire movies...tissue?

Avatar
#153 madjam
January 22 2014, 09:45PM
Trash it!
3
trashes
Cheers
5
cheers

When you spend 3 years deliberately tanking , while keeping your lineup weak so as the youth develops only a losing attitude and play ,your unlikely to ever get them to develop properly . Defence is of little value throughout entire futility period , but offence has yet to make much progress toward scoring more than the opposition .

Our problem is we still do not create enough offence to win games . We are not outscoring the opposition ! That results in many to most games .

Avatar
#154 Jaroslav Pouzar
January 22 2014, 10:51PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
5
cheers

I know it's off topic but Kassian scoring the GWG yesterday... why are the hockey gods such d_cks?

Avatar
#155 K_Mart
January 22 2014, 11:15PM
Trash it!
3
trashes
Cheers
5
cheers

Hall, Nuge, Ebs, Yak, Jultz, Nurse, Perron... These are good pieces. They just aren't as good as many fans originally thought. Combine that with their youth, inexperience, and brutal supporting cast and you get the oilers . Some NHL average offense with nothing else.

At this point... Ekblad this year and McDavid next year would be better for this team than trading Eberle for a short fix that results in more long term failure.

Avatar
#156 john
January 23 2014, 02:45AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
5
cheers

In Edmonton Sun, Eakins admitted that most players said they were used to playing that way last year. So Eakins didn't meet them half way, he wanted them to play this way. Oilers were near the top in power plays and penalty kills, goals against was middle of the pack last year. Now they are dead last in goals against, power plays allowed so many short handed goals against. Second last in NHL, screwing up stars developement. Why don't you just go back to the AHL and sell your swarm defense scheme Eakins, it's not working here.

Avatar
#157 john
January 23 2014, 03:06AM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
5
cheers

Eakins, a rookie coach is not happy when Barry Trotz said Dubnyk has bad habits and not playing well. Trotz was right on, look at the Oilers players stats, the whole team is in minus with plus/minus. How is that possible? I have never seen an entire team all minus and allowed 50 more goals scored against than for. How can a team win games that way? Fire Eakins is what people should chant at the game with signs 'Fire Eakins'. We cannot stand to see this losing ways.

Avatar
#158 pkam
January 23 2014, 09:43AM
Trash it!
8
trashes
Cheers
5
cheers
Mack Strong wrote:

Pkam

Do you read the posts or do you just get defensive as soon as you see that people reply to you?

All I was trying to say was Renney went to a team that sees his knowledge and patience and it fit their philosophy.

I never implied that the Oilers don't have a philosophy…i only said that the one they have is very confusing and seems to lack direction.

I don't even know how to address the rest of the vomit you spewed onto that post. So i won't…..

Love the OIL. Love the NATION

Your first reply to my speculation why Tambo didn't renew Renney's contract is

'The implication is that we dropped him and it was not long after that Detroit picked him up.', followed up by how well Detroit manage, draft, trade and develop.

And follow with this: 'Sure you can say its Holland or Babcock or Zetterberg or Datsyuk (both of which were 7th and 6th round picks and developed from within) and the list goes on and on. They add to and develop. WE ARE NOT DOING EITHER!!'

So the implication I get is the Oilers are so clueless that we let go a quality coach that an organization which is excellent in management, drafting , trading and development has no hesitation to recruit.

I disagree with my argument that many teams, including conference finalist and recent SC winners, not just the Oilers did the same. And the coach they let go immediately get a new head coach job, not just an associate coach job. And my point is in most cases the firing of the coach has nothing to do with the quality of the coach, but the fact that the GM is under fire to do something or he is the one canned.

I also disagree with your example of Datsyuk and Zetterberg to prove that the Wings draft well. They did draft exceptionally well in 1989, but not in the two years they draft Datsyuk and Zetterberg. In 1998, they have 10 picks, only their 1st rounder and Datsyuk become NHLer. Datsyuk was 6th rounder so it looks like they did a good job. But Datsyuk was their 8th pick in that draft, and only one of the 7 picks before him makes it to NHL? There were 2 2nd, a 3rd, and I don't care about the picks after the 3rd round, I just don't think it is really that good.

Then you said they develop the 2 players within. Neither of them played one AHL game. They came right from Europe to the big club.

You said they develop and we don't. The fact is Lander and Klefbom are currently in OKC, while Datsyuk and Zetterberg had not spent one game in AHL.

You said they made bold trades and we don't. So Pronger trade is not bold? We even tried to force a trade with an offersheet which gave 4 1st rounder to Sabres for Vanek but Sabres matched it. We tried to get Heatley but stopped by his NTC. The fact is the management did try but it didn't work out for various reasons.

Most of those bold move that you quote, if it is available to the Oilers management, I don't think they will hesitate to make it. For example, Kozlov (1st rd) for Hasek. Kozlov is a small 50 pts forward, right? What would be an equivalent player in our current roster? How about Sam Gagner? The Wings draft pick was a very late 1st rounder, it will be similar to our very early 2nd rounder. Hasek at that time will be today's Lundqvist Or Rinne or Rask. If the Rangers or the Preds or the Bruins are willing to trade their starting goalie to us for Gagner and our 2nd, I doubt our management will hesitate. It will be the steal of the year. Too bad such trade is not available to us. Canucks traded away Schneider for a 9th overall, but asked us a 7th plus the 37th plus a high prospect for the same goalie. I guess it is also the fault of our management for not willing to hugely overpay to make that bold move.

I just disagree with your opinions and with my own reasons. If you to think that is defensive, so be it. I am not going to swallow your vomit.

Avatar
#159 pkam
January 23 2014, 09:49AM
Trash it!
5
trashes
Cheers
5
cheers
outdoorzguy wrote:

Mr. Katz has more pressing problems to worry about in real life than his fantasy hockey world regarding the theft of medical information;

Katz Group of Companies bought Medicenters, they also own thousands of pharmacies, Rexal for instance. They hired ZoomMed to link the two through technology...The "ZRx Prescriber" is a Web application that runs on a pocket computer or a PC. The tool is used by physicians to fill out prescriptions and make them available to pharmacists, who can view them online via unique barcodes and confirm them using the physician's signed copy. The " ZRx Prescriber " also gives physicians access to a portable source of medical information generated by the pharmaceutical companies...Katz profits from the Medicenters and ensures that prescriptions are filled at Katz pharmacies.

There's no rush right now to fire Lowe or Eakins. Maybe if we could get Katz to fire Redford and Horne, then that would be progress!!

Boycott all Katz owned properties.

Boycott Medicenter? Are you nuts? What do you do if you don't have a family doctor? Go to the emergency and die there?

Avatar
#160 tileguy
January 23 2014, 10:27AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
5
cheers
Johnnydapunk wrote:

So.... How many balls do we get in the lottery to try and win Ekblad?

I don't know what the Oil should do now, I mean there is nothing to play for, pride was long gone and there are no more loser records to play for (fewest points in a season or most losses or fewest wins) so I don't really know what is best here.

Do the Oil just poop the bed properly and make sure they end up at the bottom for the best chance at winning the lottery of try to build something for next year and risk ruining their chances for Ekblad, or try to make the Oil a semi decent option for UFAs (potential and all that blah blah) ?

I'm kindof torn at this point, losing doesn't phase me anymore and a win now just papers over the horrible cracks and makes it harder for certain management types to see what the problems are.

It's not easy being an Oil fan nowadays. I miss the 80s.

Well said, looks like we are at the stage of acceptance although some are still at denial and anger.

Avatar
#161 DisappointedFan
January 22 2014, 11:10AM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
4
cheers

I think we can paint the coaching picture however we want to on the history of the coaching. But plain and simple, MacT didn't fire Tom Renney or hire Ralph.

Maybe a suitable comparison we should be looking at isn't the numbers on how their systems performed (easy to compare) but rather what is it on the ice that they are doing differently. Was the set up of the power play and how they position themselves or how they pass really that different from coach to coach or is this a factor of personal on the ice. Is their positioning and coverage 5v5 in their own zone and in the offensive zone so different from coach to coach that it is causing these differences or is it the players on the ice who can't follow these systems.

Next how do their systems compare to other teams in the league, are they really that different at handling the coverage in our zone and in the offensive zone compared to say the Canucks or even the Blackhawks or is there something else personal wise at play.

My point is that let's look at what exactly he's doing differently compared to other coaches before we continue saying he's a problem (I'm not saying he's possibly not). I'd personally just like to see if he has really had that big an impact or if we just have a completely different and inconsistent team.

Avatar
#162 Keri Kettle
January 22 2014, 11:39AM
Trash it!
9
trashes
Cheers
4
cheers

Rookie NHL coaches have a very steep learning curve, which is why it is not fair to contrast Krueger vs. Eakins at this point. Krueger was on the Oilers' bench as Associate Coach under Renney for two full seasons before he took the reigns, which gives him both (1) greater NHL experience and (2) greater knowledge of the Oilers' roster.

Although I definitely agree with your assertion that firing Renney was not the right move, and I think that firing Krueger was an even worse more (if for no other reason than a need for continuity), I think that Eakins needs more time before we can assert that he is a worse/better coach than either of those two gentlemen.

Avatar
#163 Mack Strong
January 22 2014, 12:10PM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
4
cheers

It is in my humble opinion that the firing of Tom and Ralph were premature. The two of them together as Head and Associate coach had the right approach. I am guilty of being part of the mob that called for their lynching but I feel I may have been hasty.

Tom is doing well as an assistant coach in Det (one point out of wild card in the ultra competitive Western Conference) and Ralph has been asked by hockey Canada to help with our coveted Team Canada…Quite the honor for a guy we ran out of Edmonton - myself included

All three are asked to make chicken salad out of chicken $hit!

Management needs to step forward and do there job in getting guys that will help this team. We have problems all over out roster. Defence brutal….our forwards are smaller with no compliment of size at all. And we bring in young guys and expect that they become stars in a season. Remember when we were 18 19 20 years old playing sports against 28 29 30 yr olds….not easy. Add your buddy who is 28 29 30 and you compliment him…different game.

I posted it earlier but (don't like cap hit) Nash isn't having a stellar year but is big and fast. He could compliment our young guys. We took a chance on Perron (struggling at time of trade, and coming off injury) and he turned out pretty good. Lucic could fit in well here…we would have to move some of our young guys and picks (but not 2014 1st) but I don't believe thats mortgaging our future…thoughts?

I think D is going to have to be done in draft, UFA and development.

Love the Oil love the Nation!

Avatar
#164 Dallylamma
January 22 2014, 02:03PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
4
cheers

Trotz: Dubnyk had ‘bad habits’ with Oilers http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/trotz-dubnyk-picked-up-bad-habits-with-oilers/

Avatar
#165 Kr55
January 22 2014, 02:07PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
4
cheers

My mistake in my original post. Good job only considering western teams in the comparison.

I think Renney + Krueger as an associate was a good situation for us. It's pretty obvious Krueger took all the special teams brains with him when he left. And Renney seems to be the most effective overall coach of the 3.

Renney and Krueger with the current team we have...might have been fighting for a spot.

Avatar
#166 camdog
January 22 2014, 02:31PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
4
cheers

@camdog

Korn explained working on Dubnyk’s game to Trotz this way: “It’s like trying to fuel up in an IndyCar race but there’s no pit stops.”

From sportsnet, I guess DD needs to get in better shape. I don't think their's a better quote to express what's going on in Edmonton in respect to our coaching staff.

Avatar
#167 TayLordBalls
January 22 2014, 06:01PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
4
cheers
pkam wrote:

You can do some of that with your offense.

We will need a few big guns who can one-timer from the blueliners. Now the other teams just collapse before the net and box out our forwards. Hard to get to the net without a few canons to pull their players out.

Without size, it is very hard to win the puck battle along the board and the corners. So the only way is to cycle the puck very fast and accurately.

And without size, how are you going to defend? Unless we are going to possess the puck for all 60 minutes.

Hockey is real simple:

Score more goals than the other team.

In other words - spend more time on offense and less time on defense.

Avatar
#168 oilcountryforlife
January 22 2014, 06:45PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
4
cheers

All I hear is fire Kevin Lowe who is useless and keep Eakins for another year to see if he is useless as he has been thus far. Lowe has had 8 years of failure, Eakins is only halfway through year one....maybe MacT can overhaul this team so the coach can have something to work with. Nobody can help Lowe.

Avatar
#169 Sevenseven
January 22 2014, 09:38PM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
4
cheers

I just feel bad for anyone who has to head coach this group. Sure there are some talented players but the worst defence in tgr league and a bunch of tiny forwards. I know Mac T likes Eakins, but I hope he sees they need a better assistants. And judging by tge comments out of Nashville, a new goalie coach would be a great start.

Avatar
#170 Chad Bannister
January 22 2014, 11:37PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
4
cheers

Fish rot from the head! I have seen first hand how an organization changes with a charismatic leader, taken a bunch of individualistic, selfish players and implemented a vision with process in how to win. I also know that when you are in charge and there is no support for change, how ineffective you become. Somewhere, Daryl Katz has got to step in and tell the boyz that this is how we run...this is what we stand for, it is my business, my money, and if you don't agree there is the door. I highly doubt that DAryl got to where he was by not throwing his weight around. I also know, from experience to stick with what you know, If the Oilers were a public company they would make Blackberry look good.

Avatar
#171 Mac
January 23 2014, 12:43AM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
4
cheers

I thought The Katz letter could have been worded better and pitched with a more empathy for the fans. Still it was a statement from the owner of what his plan is which basically involves staying the course. He's the owner and he gets to decide. That's business. It also clarified who is in charge of this team. I think MacTavish is a smart guy who has been steadily but cautiously improving the roster. The bold moves he promised are simply not out there because he's dealing from a position of extreme weakness with a nervous group of underachievers who haven't figured out how the game is played at the NHL level. I would not want him to deal promising and developing talent away for little return just to sastify angry fans. That said I believed firing Krugeur was a huge mistake from the minute it happened. It demoralized the players who clearly enjoyed playing for him and I believe with Ralph at the helm, their record would have improved this season. Eakins has and continues to make all kind of rookie mistakes but I lets face it management has painted themselves into a corner. Firing Eakins at this stage would likely do more harm than good. I have been a fan from day one and will stick with the Oilers through thick and thin. I'll continue to wear my jersey and you won't be seeing me hurl it on the ice anytime soon. And I won't be suggesting some young player is personally to blame for an Oilers loss. Does the losing hurt? Hell yes it does! But I am willing to give MacT additional time to get it right and hopefully Eakins isn't too proud to admit his mistakes and learn from them. Otherwise, he needs to be shown the door at season' end.

Avatar
#172 Wonger
January 23 2014, 10:21AM
Trash it!
9
trashes
Cheers
4
cheers
Bloodsweatandoil wrote:

Are you kidding me? You are drowning in your koolaid that you just puked up....

By next year at this time you will know I was right on the money!!!! P.S. I don't drink koolaid - I prefer Heineken or expensive scotch like Bushmills!

Avatar
#173 pkam
January 23 2014, 10:25AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
4
cheers
BingBong wrote:

Sorry, this is off-topic...but I was reading today about how Pitt should consider trading Letang for a legitimate top line forward.

What do people think of Eberle for Letang? Obviously don't like losing Ebs, but Letang is a legitimate top pairing guy who brings offense and plays lots of minutes.

I'll even add a 3rd rounder, or next year 2nd rounder to sweeten the pot. But I doubt that will be enough.

IMO, Letang is a mature version of J. Schultz, if J. Schultz pans out. The only thing I don't like is his 7.5M contract.

Avatar
#174 Wonger Again
January 23 2014, 10:31AM
Trash it!
15
trashes
Cheers
4
cheers
Wonger wrote:

By next year at this time you will know I was right on the money!!!! P.S. I don't drink koolaid - I prefer Heineken or expensive scotch like Bushmills!

If you talk to high level NHL insiders, like I do on a regular basis, you would know that no GM outworks MACT - he is relentless, on a daily basis ,trying to pursue trades to make this team better. He regularly puts in 16-18 hour days! Eakins is also a tireless worker - trying to better himself, and a a result, benefit the Oilers! THESE MEN WILL NOT GIVE UP TRYING TO MAKE THIS TEAM BETTER!!!! I have all of the RESPECT in the world for both of them - like many ppeople in the hockey world do and more Oiler Nation Bloggers should! THEY WILL NOT QUIT and THEY WILL BE SUCCESSFUL!!!!

Avatar
#175 Bloodsweatandoil
January 23 2014, 10:47AM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
4
cheers

@Wonger

Well Wonger, Patience has run thin to nil with good reason. The tone of these threads and posts are greatly warranted. I just feel that your post was something that a Carebear would say, and that it was way too late and the wrong place. What kind of response did you hope to illicit? Go to Leafs Nation, they probably have a good glee club.

Avatar
#176 Wonger
January 23 2014, 01:11PM
Trash it!
4
trashes
Cheers
4
cheers
DSF wrote:

What if the Wonger is Hitch??? Anything is possible!

I may be rich and famous, and have more chins than a Vancouver phone book - but I am definitely not Hitch! That being said - I love Hitch as a person and coach - he could coach or manage my team any day!!!!!!

Avatar
#177 DisappointedFan
January 22 2014, 11:11AM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
3
cheers

I do like the comparison of stats by the way Willis, it does portray the evidence of drop in numbers quite well.

Avatar
#178 ubermiguel
January 22 2014, 11:33AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
3
cheers
Mustangheart wrote:

JW, I your option, should Katz make the move to remove KLowe, who would be a great fit to move the Oilers ahead?

What exactly does Lowe do? Do they need to replace him at all?

Avatar
#179 pkam
January 22 2014, 01:25PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
3
cheers
hatrock wrote:

Don't forget that Renney had to deal with a hugely injured team and a whole pile of AHL callups the team almost looked like the entire Barons roster.

And yet he STILL posts better numbers than Eakins who's had a relatively healthy team.

Why Lowe didn't hire Hitchcock is beyond me. He's completely turned around the Blues into the best defense team in the league and one of the top 3 offensive teams.

Because Hitchcock didn't need a job when we wanted to hire a coach.

Avatar
#180 westcoastoil
January 22 2014, 01:44PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
3
cheers
fasteddy wrote:

I see where Barry Trotz says 3 of the 5 goals Dubey gave up in his debut should have been stopped by an NHL goalie. .....maybe it wasn't all the fault of our inept defense after all....

Funny question: If the Oilers say went out and got Bill Ranford as a new goalie coach and Charlie Huddy as a new D coach - 2 coaches that by all accounts are very well respected in their field. Would the howls of "old boys network again" rain down from the rafters in Rexall?

Not saying Eakins would do that because of optics, but I suspect the team D and G positions would have been markedly better today of those 2 guys had been around the last 2 years.

For the life of me I never understood why Bucky survived the purge when Huddy did not. Huddy by all accounts was, and has been since, pretty good at developing D. Did they know Huddy would have a better time of getting a job.

As for new assistants - I would love to see them get Todd Reirden in.

Avatar
#181 Mack Strong
January 22 2014, 01:55PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
3
cheers

@pkam

The implication is that we dropped him and it was not long after that Detroit picked him up.

Detroit is a well run well managed organization that picks well trades well and develops amazingly!!! Period.

Detroit and Ken Holland "know a little about winning" and would not bring in a person who is A. going to upset the balance that they have achieved B. Is not going to compliment and add to what is already a model system and organization.

Sure you can say its Holland or Babcock or Zetterberg or Datsyuk (both of which were 7th and 6th round picks and developed from within) and the list goes on and on. They add to and develop. WE ARE NOT DOING EITHER!!

There is no doubt that we have some assets here that could be great! but thats where its going to stay - in the "could be" category.

This all comes down to Management…imagine if we had Detroit's organization and management right down to coaching………me thinks you'd keep reading then…. =)

Love the OIL Love the Nation!

Avatar
#182 Bucknuck
January 22 2014, 02:19PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
3
cheers

No coach in this league would win more games than it's lost with the Defense the Oil have had the last five years. It's hard to grade coaches who find themselves in that position.

In my mind, the players need some continuity. If they need to shake things up a little bit, then maybe an assistant should move on, but keep Eakins, even if he isn't the long term answer. Until they get a top pairing defenseman, they will be in the bottom third of the league.

Avatar
#183 Tikkanese
January 22 2014, 04:30PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
3
cheers

@Gordie Wayne

I wouldn't want anything to do with Laraque. He's being sued left and right for questionable business practises.

Avatar
#184 oilerman53
January 22 2014, 04:54PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
3
cheers

This organization has been totally devoid of everything from vocal leaders to vocal coaches. Anyone who doesnt preach the word of Lowe will not have a job here. 3 playoff appearances i 13 years and in the midst of another failed season where everyone took a huge step back. If this wasn't embarassing before now its getting ridiculous.

These are all grown men with some sort of pride somewhere right? No one in the whole organization can keep pulling the wool over our eyes! Lowe is the puppet master and everyone knows it! If he has any decency he will step down and take his old boys club with him and help usher in a new era of Oilers hockey. Prolonging this is just making him look even more worst. Food for thought, Ken Hitchcock was out of work for a period of time, Edmonton boy maybe would have liked to come home and restore glory. Why wasnt he picked up? All hes done since the firing from Philly is taken St Louis and turn them into a powerhouse team.

Avatar
#185 David S
January 22 2014, 05:11PM
Trash it!
3
trashes
Cheers
3
cheers

Nice #FancyStats but nowhere do I see wins and losses, nor W's estimated per 82 game schedule (in Krueger's case).

Corgi doesn't get you points in the standings, wins do.

Avatar
#186 Mack Strong
January 22 2014, 05:41PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
3
cheers

@pkam

My implication is that Detroit had a philosophy and model. They follow this philosophy and model in everything they do. Including bringing in Renney who we let go…Renny and Ralph were good for the young guys. He was patient with them. How is Eakins punitive mentality working with Yak?? He's 20 and thinks his $hit don't stink…maybe not the best mentality but Ralph brought a better side out of Yak.

You are 100 % correct that Detroit made a decision to scout European and and European style players because they broke away from the chip and chase philosophy and utilized the puck possession philosophy in the mid 90's.

MANAGEMENT implemented a philosophy and followed up by getting the personnel to follow it. They traded I believe 8 1st round picks:

Primeau plus 1st for Paul Coffey

Eriksson plus 2 more 1st picks for Chelios

Kozlov (1st rd) for Hasek

1st and Fleischman for Lang

1st and roster player for Schneider.

Those are BOLD MOVES!

Point is they had a philosophy implemented by MANAGEMENT, made moves for players that would fit the philosophy, moves made by MANAGEMENT, and brought in Babcock a possession minded coach. They also have a philosophy that players that enter that organization from draft will "Do time in the AHL to learn the game" and patience and mentoring is exercised with them.

What philosophy do you see here in Edmonton? Are they picking players that fit a philosophy? Are they making trades that fit a philosophy? Many of us in the Nation would argue that there seem to be a lack of direction or T. fortitude to make the type of moves Detroit did in the mid 90's. This organization rushes players then slows others, says they'll trade players then keeps them, etc…

Lack of direction from the top bring what we have…Leadership, mentorship, and direction is what brings what they have. Renney is right there with them and so is Ralph just with Team Canada - which by the way is essentially the brain trust of the Red Wings.

Love the OIL Love the Nation

Avatar
#187 Dog Train
January 22 2014, 10:55PM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
3
cheers

I never felt like Renney was given a fair shake. The problem runs deeper than Eakins though. The roster is not good enough. I don't think I need to point out our many deficiencies because they have been beaten to death but until the roster is improved, the coach should not be the scapegoat.

Avatar
#188 Retsinnab5
January 22 2014, 10:56PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
3
cheers

Found this... http://www.jibjab.com/view/laR9kbx0RMa7QVV5WHrNNQ?

Avatar
#189 Romanus
January 23 2014, 12:10AM
Trash it!
3
trashes
Cheers
3
cheers
Drowning in Oil wrote:

THE LAUGHABLE THING IN THIS ENTIRE SITUATION IS HOW IT SEEMS THAT ONLY NOW, WE NEED CONTINUITY. WHY NOT WITH RENNEY, OR PERHAPS WITH KRUGER. IT IS ONLY WHEN CRAIG MACTAVISH GETS HIS HOLD ON THE REINS AND MAKES A MESS OF THE WHOLE THING, THAT CONTINUITY BECOMES AN ISSUE.

IT IS ALL JUST A SMOKE SCREEN BY MANAGEMENT TO COVER THIS COACHING STAFF'S FLAWS FOR AS LONG AS POSSIBLE!!

THIS ORGANIZATION IS THE BIGGEST JOKE AROUND. NO OTHER ORGANIZATION IN PRO SPORTS WOULD PUT UP WITH THIS MEDIOCRITY!!

I can't hear you!

Avatar
#190 DSF
January 23 2014, 01:08PM
Trash it!
3
trashes
Cheers
3
cheers

What if the Wonger is Hitch??? Anything is possible!

Avatar
#192 Lochenzo
January 22 2014, 11:34AM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers

I think there must be continuity within your organization as well. Guys that share in the leaders vision and who are capable at executing it. MacT finds his guy in Eakins. I was surprised that Eakins didn't get to bring in new Asst Coaches. Maybe Steve Smith and Kelly Buchberger are the right guys. Or maybe these guys are a part of the old boys club, an argument the Fire Kevin Lowe crowd would adopt.

I don't know the answer to this one.

Avatar
#193 RyMosh4
January 22 2014, 11:46AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers

Knowing new General Managers like to bring in their own coaches, do we think MacT would have kept Renney around? I am on the 'We should have kept Renney around' team, but I wonder if it's not worth worrying about, as a new GM (which we all agree was needed) was always going to bring in his own guy, anyway.

Avatar
#194 ubermiguel
January 22 2014, 11:53AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers
pkam wrote:

This is tricky. Who do you consider top-end players?

I can list the ones who have 8 or more man games lost last season and let you decide if they are top-end players:

Ben Eager: 9 games Shawn Horcoff: 17 games Eric Belanger: 20 games Mark Fistric: 10 games Anton Lander: 16 games Nikolai Khabibulin: 8 games Ales Hemsky: 10 games

That is 90 of the 118 man games lost. Who on this list do you think is top-ended player?

Top 6 forwards included Hemsky and Horcoff and our #1 goalie. I'm not saying these guys should have been top 6 forwards or #1 goalie, but on that team they were and they lost a huge % of time.

Avatar
#195 pkam
January 22 2014, 12:18PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers
ubermiguel wrote:

Top 6 forwards included Hemsky and Horcoff and our #1 goalie. I'm not saying these guys should have been top 6 forwards or #1 goalie, but on that team they were and they lost a huge % of time.

That's why I said it is tricky to determine who is top-ended players.

Larsen is 2nd in PPG among all our defense, just after J. Schultz. Before he got hurt, he is in our PP unit. But is he a top end player? He is out 24 games this year, does it count?

Avatar
#196 Romanus
January 22 2014, 01:08PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers
Oil Can wrote:

As we compare coaches and try to figure out which one was better or we should have kept. How about maybe we just haven't hired the right guy yet. Montreal, Ottawa, New Jersey, Colorado, ect. Have all done pretty good and have not needed to give their coaches years of loosing records to see if they are the right coach for the job. GO OUT AND GET AN EXPERIENCED CHOACH and let him bring in his own assistants.

Using your team examples, someone like Patrick Roy?

Avatar
#197 pkam
January 22 2014, 01:22PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers

My speculation why Renney was not renewed.

Tambellini realized his days were on the wall when MacT returned as the VPOHO. He knew the only chance he could extend his job was to make the playoff.

So he went all the way to meet Renney and asked him if he could bring the young Oilers to playoff. When he didn't get the promise from Renney, he had no option. He knew the only chance he might keep his job if the Oilers failed to make the playoff was to make some significant change. At least it showed he tried instead of doing nothing. Elite UFAs do not want to sign here. Teams wouldn't trade us their elite players unless they could freeze us. So his only option is a coaching change.

Pretty much what Gillis did in Vancouver. He knew if he didn't get a new coach, then the club will get a new GM. So one guy lost his job is better than 2 guys lost their jobs.

Avatar
#198 Zipdot
January 22 2014, 01:35PM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers
Moog's helmet wrote:

After Renney's final season as Oilers coach he held a press conference where he had no idea if he was coming back. Then Tambellini and Lowe made him re apply for his job. Then he was terminated. Disgraceful. Why would anyone be in favour of mercy for Kevin Lowe after how he handled Renney's dismissal?

Some people thought Renney didn't play the kids enough. (I remember Stauffer being one of them.) Obviously Renney was right to shelter them. If there was a faction of fans who wanted him fired, it was for this misguided reason.

When Krueger took over the feeling was his technical expertise would improve Edmonton's defence. Then when he got skyped out of town in favour of Eakins the feeling was Krueger's system had flaws and other teams were exposing him. I wonder what we'll hear when Eakins gets fired?

Bottom line is Eakins was brought in to improve this team's compete level. Their compete level has clearly and I mean clearly not increased. The experiment has already failed. He's not an upgrade over Krueger. Just like Krueger wasn't an upgrade over Renney. Only good news is the Oilers failure buzzwords have changed from "culture change" to "compete" I was getting tired of culture change. Compete is getting old too come to think of it.

Krueger should still be here. Although it is hard to feel sorry for him once you've seen the face he makes on the cover of his dumb motivation speaking book. I believe it was called "Switzerland can tie Canada and so can you!"

I strongly disagree.

1. When Krueger was fired, no one that I know of said anything about system flaws leading to exposure. What MacT said was that he didn't agree with the approach that Krueger took and that while initially looking for an X and O assistant coach, he ended up deciding to outright replace Krueger with Eakins. Between the lines, we read at the time that MacT prefers a possession game while Krueger was all about the run-and-gun.

2. Eakins was NOT brought in to improve the team's compete level. Obviously, Krueger was the motivational guy. Eakins talked about fitness and about having a plan to get the puck back, mostly. He may have also mentioned compete but the original plan was "X's and O's".

3. You may remember that Renney was always complaining about compete. That's when that became a big buzzword, really. Remember the time he called out his players, saying "suck it up and play! You're millionaires!"...

Just my two cents.

Avatar
#199 pkam
January 22 2014, 01:50PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers
westcoastoil wrote:

Funny question: If the Oilers say went out and got Bill Ranford as a new goalie coach and Charlie Huddy as a new D coach - 2 coaches that by all accounts are very well respected in their field. Would the howls of "old boys network again" rain down from the rafters in Rexall?

Not saying Eakins would do that because of optics, but I suspect the team D and G positions would have been markedly better today of those 2 guys had been around the last 2 years.

For the life of me I never understood why Bucky survived the purge when Huddy did not. Huddy by all accounts was, and has been since, pretty good at developing D. Did they know Huddy would have a better time of getting a job.

As for new assistants - I would love to see them get Todd Reirden in.

I believe Smith is defense assistant, not Bucky.

Avatar
#200 camdog
January 22 2014, 02:25PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers

"Certainly they weren’t under Renney or Krueger; it’s possible that Eakins is doing something bizarre but I don’t think it’s likely."

The "SWARM" was bizarre. But another thing is happening in Edmonton this season. In years past Renney and Krueger protected their young star players, they sheltered their minutes. Eakins has refused to shelter the minutes to the extent that other coaches have. It's more of a sink or swim approach. Don't know if it's helping or not?

I also think our defense is worse than it ever has been. Mact sure did make a lot of moves, but the moves haven't fixed the defense, in fact I would say it's worse than it ever has been. Last night I don't think Eakins had much confidence in Potter or N. Schultz. On any given night at most he's got 4 reliable d-man. Of course part of this is his fault for giving Mact the thumbs up to trade Smid.

Comments are closed for this article.