Martin Marincin good, too much else bad

Jonathan Willis
January 24 2014 10:55PM

 

Martin Marincin continues to impress just over 100 games into his professional career. He was asked to take on heavy minutes in the Oilers' 4-3 loss to Phoenix on Friday, and unlike so many others on the team he didn't disappoint. 

Marincin picked up his first career NHL point against the Coyotes and played a career-high 23:53, the third time in the last six games that the rookie has topped the 20:00 mark. He finished the game plus-one, which makes him one of very few Oilers to be a plus on the season. The Oilers were excellent with him on the ice, out-chancing Phoenix 8-3 when he skated at even-strength. He was a bright spot in a loss, and he's been a bright spot in a losing season. 

Scoring Chances & Brief Thoughts

  • The Oilers' top line had a pretty good evening, all things considered. Or, at least, they did at even-strength - those kids also powered a misfiring power play that failed to manage even one chance per opportunity and went 0-for-6 in the goals department.
  • The second line was a problem. Ryan Smyth has been good in a third line role and showed flashes, but his foot speed is a problem on a scoring line and without any kind of shot he seems better off in the bottom-six. This is particularly so when Sam Gagner continues to flounder.
  • Matt Hendricks took three penalties but looked good when he wasn't offending the officials. The third line overall, as it has been for much of this season, was a strength. 
  • It was a mixed night from the fourth line. Mark Arcobello is a favourite but had a quiet evening, while both Nail Yakupov and Jesse Joensuu had nice offensive moments and bad defensive moments.
  • Andrew Ference left the game early and Justin Schultz's transition to low-event play in major minutes continues. Mostly, the defence wasn't terrible against Phoenix - though Anton Belov sticks out like a sore thumb, doesn't he?
  • Ilya Bryzgalov was awful. He faced 11 scoring chances total on the night and surrendered four goals and two posts. The Oilers made quite a few mistakes against the Coyotes but if they'd had even semi-competent goaltending they would likely have earned at least a point.
  • Also: be sure to check out Lowetide's look this evening at Aaron Ekblad. 

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Jonathan Willis is a freelance writer. He currently works for Oilers Nation, Sportsnet, the Edmonton Journal and Bleacher Report. He's co-written three books and worked for myriad websites, including Grantland, ESPN, The Score, and Hockey Prospectus. He was previously the founder and managing editor of Copper & Blue.
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#51 Guy Lafleur
January 25 2014, 09:18AM
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I dont know why they dont call up the Oklahoma defence and send the Oiler defemce to Oklahoma .

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#52 K_Mart
January 25 2014, 01:00PM
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For those of you wondering what good firing Klowe would do... It's preventative. It won't save this season, but it will prevent Lowe from whispering the names of players like Belov and Joensuu in the ear of MacT next season and for seasons to come.

I'm not saying Lowe was the reason the oilers were high on those players, but he's the constant and there's a good chance he's been the one that's behind several bad moves.

Who liked Ryan Whitney more than Vis? Who pushed Souray out of town? Who wanted stoll and greene gone? Who liked belov? Joensuu? Labarara? Belanger? Eager?

I don't know how many of the bad moves were due to Lowe, Tambo, or MacT, but I do know that Lowe was here the whole time. Katz can't blame Lowe for the performance of the players, that's on them, but he can prevent him from making poor decisions in the future by getting rid of him. My hope is that MacT just ignores him if Katz refuses to get rid of him.

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#53 Rick Stroppel
January 25 2014, 02:29PM
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He Who Knows wrote:

Who is trashing this dude's comments???? Sick, twisted people out there. Maybe it's the paid shills trashing comments that speak the truth about how fans feel.

A LITTLE ORIGINALITY PLEASE

The people who trashed that comment do not support Lowe. They are just TIRED of seeing the same comment posted OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

" Fire Lowe " means nothing to me. Please give us something unique, insightful, and/or funny.

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#54 Danger Pay
January 25 2014, 02:06AM
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Thanks for the defensive brite spot JW! On a completely unrelated conversation I had tonight, I was hoping to obtain your perspective.

As a sports writer I imagine you've traveled to other arena's... and I was curious what your opinion on the Ole Rexall Arena itself was? It has to be out dated by now, compared to other Barn's.

Can the new arena/building help erase this Losing Culture Stench? Ray Ferraro himself has stated, on air, that "when he enter's Rexall, he can literally feel the negative energy in the building."

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#55 Huskamania
January 25 2014, 06:17AM
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David S wrote:

Yeah Gagner had an off game but holy cow putting Smyth on his line is the kiss of death. Sam lasered a cross-ice pass onto his stick and he broke it on the shot attempt right in the freakin' slot.

And the powerplay. The g*d d*mn powerplay. What the hell has Eakins done to those guys? Used to be we had some kick ass firepower in that part of the game and now you wish we could decline them.

lol that is funny and I agree dont know why Smyth is even playing he does nothing with his wooden stick he's stuck in the 80s slow style he wouldnt be able to keep up to my son on an Atom team , dont worry if Smyth leaves he will be back as an assistant coach sooner then later

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#56 MessyEH
January 25 2014, 07:01AM
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It's been speculated at before. JSchultz must have been riding MM coat tales last year.

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#57 nunyour
January 25 2014, 09:38AM
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I also thought petry looked brutal,my brother hasn't liked him from day one but I defended him,i think my brother was right.Our top line has to play better starting the game,and not wait till we are down.With so much talent our power play should be feared.

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#58 samurai003
January 25 2014, 12:11PM
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This just goes to show the poor decisions made by KBlowe, MacT and Eakins. Notice Eakins never pulls the goalie? Just makes them stay in net and suffer, instead of send a message to the team. Why keep doing the same things over and over. Obviously not working.

I say, get an NHL coach, I think Eakins could be an assistant. But whos' available as a head coach?? If KLowe were fired, who'd be a good replacement? There is no way any UFA would re-sign or come to EDM with the management and coaching record right now. Really, they are making the future success tougher on themselves.

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#59 Paq Twinn
January 25 2014, 06:16AM
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I think if we had semi competent defence then our semi competent goalies would look better. Marincin is a welcome sight, need more like him but older with more experience.

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#60 Randaman
January 25 2014, 09:59AM
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Show me da Money wrote:

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE

Please don't let Martin Marincin become RUINED by his Oiler team mates.

I look forward to see how Dubnyk turns out in a few months having been traded from the Oilers. If he greatly improves that might say something about the team.

Right now it seems to poison almost everyone who plays there the exceptions being Perron and Gordon.

Hendricks, Perron & Gordon should be left alone to build chemistry which it seems Hendricks & Gordon already have from before. That line is real good. Hall, Eberle & Nuge should be left alone as well with the exception of putting some weight on the line once in a while when other teams take liberties with them. The other two lines (2 & 4) really need work! Not to get ahead of ourselves here but #85 looks like he will be an excellent #3/4 option for a long time and with a little more weight will be a force! I really like his game. I'm tired of the negative thoughts (mentally draining). Let's try to focus on the positive we see going into the draft and next year. Wait, where have I heard that before. LOL One more thing, I seriously hope that if Eakins gets fired that the assistants don't survive again or the revolving door will continue. That is the real reason Eakins was hired because a coach with experience will not want an inherited staff! Plain and simple. My thoughts...

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#62 Bucknuck
January 25 2014, 11:22AM
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If your goalie lets in a bunch of easy shots in this league, you are most likely going to lose. I understand why MacT is spending so much energy on the goalie position, because without it you are dead in the water.

I actually thought the Oilers played pretty well, except Bryz, who seemed better later on in the game, but by then it was too late. The goalies have lost a lot of gmaes for the Oil this year, but can't remember them stealing any.

They are due.

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#63 Hall the time
January 25 2014, 12:45PM
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oilersd wrote:

Somehow i doubt that MacT got his business degree and then decided to base the rest of his decisions on coin flips and a magic eight ball. Krueger was a fine coach but you can't blame MacT for putting his own stamp on this organization. It's not like Krueger could have made gags 5 inches taller and 20 lbs heavier. It is difficult to compare the two coaches anyway as the sample size for both is just too narrow. If Krueger had remained at the helm the team may well have been improved this year, but only because he would have been picking up where he left off. Continuity is the answer. Patience and continuity. And i will preemptively state that i am NOT an oilers employee or contractor. Just a regular schmo like the rest of you. I just don't live in the land of negativity that many people do.

I'm well pasted negativity. How about we just keep doing the same stuff and see if things will change magically , to me it's laughable at this point.

Negative?....... I have a smile on my face every time the Oilers get scored on and I don't know why, I'm well pasted negative bud.

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#64 oilersd
January 25 2014, 09:33AM
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@michael

The things Eakins is coaching are not much different than any other coach in the nhl. And while the improvements on the ice have definitely not been easy to find they are there. Taylor Hall, RNH, and Eberle have actually started to learn what playing a 200 ft game means, and they do a much better job of sustaining pressure with and creating scoring chance off the cycle. Over the last number of games they have been far more consistent in all areas of the ice. Other guys have not seen as much improvement, but if you want to look to some reasons how about the fact that Yak, for example, is only in his second year with the team and looks about as defensively sound as a 20 year old kid in his 2nd season. Except that he is behind a bunch of other highly touted skilled prospect who have more experience than he does. Unlike Hall who had (lol) Ethan Moreau and Shawn Horcoff to leap frog. I'm yak may be frustrated but I don't think he is shsttered. The mistake with yak was in not putting him in the minors I think. If Yak had spent last season in the minors the two things would be different for him and the team. One, he would have been a big fish learning to play both sides of the puck in a little pond, and, two, the oilers would have freed up a roster spot that could have been taken short term by a more veteran player. This could have significantly changed the fortunes of both the team and the player. IMO that hangs on management, but you don't make it to 1st overall pick in the nhl without dealing with a little adversity and employing a great deal of perseverance. Yak will be fine. But the last thing any of them or us needs at this point is yet another coach or gm. They need continuity. We need continuity. And if you are going to tell me that this rebuild started with Robbie Shremp and Robert Nillson then I've got a bridge to sell you...

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#65 toprightcorner
January 25 2014, 12:53PM
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Oilglob wrote:

All those fans that think it is worth keeping Eakins next year.....please stand up and be counted so that when the chaos continues next year you can pat your self on the back for stopping progress dead....

*standing*

The players play the game, not the coach so time for them to be accountable.

The obvious on ice holes far outweigh the effects of the coach.

Defense is terrible, how about looking at the defense coach, Smith.

ES execution suspect? how about looking at the coach in charge of on ice systems play - Buchberger.

If Babcock had terrible assistant coaches he wouldn't have been half as successful.

Let's at least let a coach pick his own staff before running him out of town.

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#66 @Oilanderp
January 25 2014, 02:32PM
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@Serious Gord

To those who have tied themselves to the rhetorical mast that we have fired so many that to fire another is counterproductive I ask: you would fire him if that wasn't the situation because he is incompetent, why would you keep because it is the situation? In either circumstance he is incompetent.

Your argument here seems to be:

1. Eakins is incompetent.

2. One should fire an incompetent coach regardless of past coach performance.

3. Eakins should be fired.

While I completely agree with #2, I really don't know about the truth of #1, and you've done nothing to show me that this is the case. However, there is at least a bit of evidence that #1 is NOT the case.

Assume P=Players, C=Coach.

If P+C1 = fail, P+C2=fail, P+C3=fail, P+C4=fail, P+C5=fail ....

Are you SERIOUSLY suggesting to me that P + C6 = success?!?!?!? It seems to me that any reasonable person would have a look at 'P'.

Look at a game and tell me with a straight face there isn't a problem with P, or am I just 'P'ing in the wind here?

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#67 @mbrunihockey
January 25 2014, 09:40AM
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TopRight wrote:

I thought Ryan Jones had a real good game. Showed some pace and grit.

Did you see his post game interview? About time we see some fire and honesty around the room.

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#68 dman
January 25 2014, 09:47AM
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oilersd wrote:

The things Eakins is coaching are not much different than any other coach in the nhl. And while the improvements on the ice have definitely not been easy to find they are there. Taylor Hall, RNH, and Eberle have actually started to learn what playing a 200 ft game means, and they do a much better job of sustaining pressure with and creating scoring chance off the cycle. Over the last number of games they have been far more consistent in all areas of the ice. Other guys have not seen as much improvement, but if you want to look to some reasons how about the fact that Yak, for example, is only in his second year with the team and looks about as defensively sound as a 20 year old kid in his 2nd season. Except that he is behind a bunch of other highly touted skilled prospect who have more experience than he does. Unlike Hall who had (lol) Ethan Moreau and Shawn Horcoff to leap frog. I'm yak may be frustrated but I don't think he is shsttered. The mistake with yak was in not putting him in the minors I think. If Yak had spent last season in the minors the two things would be different for him and the team. One, he would have been a big fish learning to play both sides of the puck in a little pond, and, two, the oilers would have freed up a roster spot that could have been taken short term by a more veteran player. This could have significantly changed the fortunes of both the team and the player. IMO that hangs on management, but you don't make it to 1st overall pick in the nhl without dealing with a little adversity and employing a great deal of perseverance. Yak will be fine. But the last thing any of them or us needs at this point is yet another coach or gm. They need continuity. We need continuity. And if you are going to tell me that this rebuild started with Robbie Shremp and Robert Nillson then I've got a bridge to sell you...

Yak could not have played in the AHL last season.

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#69 Randaman
January 25 2014, 10:09AM
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the rake wrote:

It has been a painful season, but at least Marincin has been a bright spot, and hopefully will put on some weight in the offseason and continue to develop at the rate he is. We all know they need a top d-man, but at what cost do you obtain one? If they end up with a chance to get Eckblad, that gives them Eckblad, Nurse, and Klefbom. Now they may be 2-3 years away, and who knows if they turn out, but i think 2 out of 3 will for sure. Throw in Justin Schultz (still has a lot to prove) and Marincin and there is a definite upside in the future. So, are they maybe better off to go after guys like Seabrooke or Karl Alzner? Not Norris trophy type guys, but solid 2-3 guys that could help bring the young guys around. Cost would be less for these type of guys and yet still be a drastic upgrade. Ference can be a very effective d-man as a number 4 guy, he is not a top 2 guy. Then if they don't have to spend as much on acquiring a d-man they can maybe have something left to acquire an NHL caliber 2nd line center. Still think Couterier could be got. Goaltending is a whole other issue, but Brossiant has 6 shutouts in 12 games this year, maybe there is some hope there.

I know that the Smid trade upset a lot of people but Brossiant was the available piece that triggered that deal. I really liked him in junior and he will be an Oiler in my view! His season thus far has been amazing. Hey, another positive. What do you know

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#70 toprightcorner
January 25 2014, 01:01PM
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JW, I like stats, but would you sat Hendricks is proving they don't tell the whole picture?

His intensity, leadership, character and positive energy is exactly what the team needs and can have an unmeasurable positive impact on the team.

I still believe he was a good addition and even though he is being paid $750k more than he should, that's a cheap price to pay out of next years $70 mill cap hit to teach these attributes to the younger players.

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#71 K_Mart
January 25 2014, 01:03PM
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toprightcorner wrote:

JW, I like stats, but would you sat Hendricks is proving they don't tell the whole picture?

His intensity, leadership, character and positive energy is exactly what the team needs and can have an unmeasurable positive impact on the team.

I still believe he was a good addition and even though he is being paid $750k more than he should, that's a cheap price to pay out of next years $70 mill cap hit to teach these attributes to the younger players.

If somehow Hendricks can rub off on the others and get players to amp up the intensity even while he's on the bench, than that's invaluable. But it's also impossible to measure.

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#72 S cottV
January 25 2014, 02:00PM
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Lets see how the next several games go because it really doesn't look good and if the trend continues - omg - you cant keep Eakins for the sake of keeping him.

It doesn't take much to read between the lines that Eakins has either lost or is very close to losing the room.

If an or when this happens - there really is no other choice.

The Coach must be able to influence a buy in of his concepts, achieve implementation and in turn, extract over achievement from the player group. There is not one facet of over achievement that anyone including Eakins can point to, here - there or anywhere and declare over achievement.

If somehow - the d zone coverage starts coming together or the pp starts to click, or the team starts looking more steady - or - heaven forbid the Oilers start winning some games, maybe you extend things to see if the positive trends continue.

But - at this point and continued negative trending, geez - let him go at the Olympic break.

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#73 S cottV
January 25 2014, 06:17PM
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@Oilanderp wrote:
To those who have tied themselves to the rhetorical mast that we have fired so many that to fire another is counterproductive I ask: you would fire him if that wasn't the situation because he is incompetent, why would you keep because it is the situation? In either circumstance he is incompetent.

Your argument here seems to be:

1. Eakins is incompetent.

2. One should fire an incompetent coach regardless of past coach performance.

3. Eakins should be fired.

While I completely agree with #2, I really don't know about the truth of #1, and you've done nothing to show me that this is the case. However, there is at least a bit of evidence that #1 is NOT the case.

Assume P=Players, C=Coach.

If P+C1 = fail, P+C2=fail, P+C3=fail, P+C4=fail, P+C5=fail ....

Are you SERIOUSLY suggesting to me that P + C6 = success?!?!?!? It seems to me that any reasonable person would have a look at 'P'.

Look at a game and tell me with a straight face there isn't a problem with P, or am I just 'P'ing in the wind here?

At a certain point it doesn't matter about the P, because the C - must reach the P, no matter whether or not the P is in the right or in the wrong.

The C must win over the P - period.

A reasonable time to accomplish this is a given and by anyones standards you really have to be thinking that present conditions warrant that time is just about up.

I am the first to acknowledge that this player group must be a major challenge. Young core of hot shot first overalls and first round draft picks that don't know how to play yet and have big egos. Too many small skill forwards. A weak d corp and weak goaltending. Frustration amongst the group from several years of failure and big time pressure to turn it around. It's all very tough - no question.

Still - the Coaches job is to win them over, take what is handed to him and extract over achievement.

Over achievement is subjective, but I really believe that even the most favourable to Eakins, would be hard pressed to identify even a morsel that qualifies. Those harshest to Eakins would declare that there is not a damn thing that represents any indication of over achievement with this player group.

It did not take Paul Maurice - more than a week and a half to produce some evidence of over achievement from the Jets player group. We have had Dallas Eakins for 6 months and I really cant point to anything that comes close to a comparison.

The C is a very tough job, given the P that is in place. Only the very best of the C stands a chance. Our C - is not even close to being one of the very best C's out there.

He has no chance.

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#74 former Notre Dame Hound
January 25 2014, 08:50AM
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S cottV wrote:

Difficult to understand the kind of money thrown at Gagner, given that the guy just cannot cut it as a 2C.

This revelation just didn't all of a sudden appear?

I mean he isn't even close to being effective.

OMG...there may be a cure for my Gagneritous...last count 36 to 1 on the above article...I cant even watch when "Gags" is on the ice...wait..I need some comedy in my World...maybe he might make the worst top ten list of players ever to skate in the NHL...there is ALWAYS hope...ha

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#75 oilersd
January 25 2014, 11:56AM
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@Oilanderp wrote:

*sigh*

*stands up*

Have you ever considered the possibility that the players might have something to do with the on-ice product?

I imagine these players to be like spoiled brats who have managed to get all of their previous babysitters fired. They are great in front of their mommy and daddy and they say all the right things. As soon as the parents go out for dinner BAM! it's babysitter hell. They do whatever they want whenever they want and how can you blame them? Mommy and daddy continue to blame the babysitter. They are never punished or held accountable.

I hope for once these babies are made to understand that they are going to have to learn to play a 200ft game, and that crying and pouting to get the babysitter fired simply won't work anymore. It's time for mommy and daddy's little superstars to grow up.

There. I stood up to be counted.

They're just not very good at hockey against the best in the world right now. See you next year.

I'm in. Eakins needs a better mix of tools in his tool box. MacT needs to trade for and/or sign better mix of players. If he does that and Eakins still flounders next year then I will be happy to pick up a torch and join the lynch mob.

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#76 toprightcorner
January 25 2014, 12:17PM
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Mr common sense wrote:

Why is Mact not pursuing Steve ott? He is the 2nd line C we need, tough sob and a ufa.

I like Ott and would love to see him on the team. He will be a deadline trade for a pick (which Edmonton doesn't have a 2nd or 3rd) More likely to get him as UFA, Ott playing with the Oil (any pending UFA) down the stretch won't convince them to sign.

I would prefer Ott as 3rd line. How good would our bottom 6 look with Gordon, Hendricks and Joneson the 4th line?

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#77 K_Mart
January 25 2014, 02:21PM
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fasteddy wrote:

Your point would make more sense if you were referring to front line players.......I look and wonder where the major blunders have been, and dont see much. Certainly nothing more than most other teams. I realize we all want a pound of flesh, but the screamers on here calling for Lowe's head are fools for thinking things would have been drastically different with someone else at the helm.

I would say that the value we got for Visnovsky and Souray was a disgrace. And those two players represent the front line of a once average d core. Those blunders were huge, and I'm fearful that there will be more.

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#78 oilersd
January 25 2014, 09:38PM
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Serious Gord wrote:

This is something that I and others have been musing about ever since he was hired. How a coach can consider himself a conditioning expert is the height of arrogance and ignorance.

I think this is a bit of a reach. The issues the team has is with their lack of size and an inability to manage puck possession. It's genetics and between the ears that's the problem. Not quick reflex muscles.

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#79 James
January 25 2014, 12:43AM
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Nothing about Cams fluff piece in the EJ?

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#80 the rake
January 25 2014, 09:32AM
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It has been a painful season, but at least Marincin has been a bright spot, and hopefully will put on some weight in the offseason and continue to develop at the rate he is. We all know they need a top d-man, but at what cost do you obtain one? If they end up with a chance to get Eckblad, that gives them Eckblad, Nurse, and Klefbom. Now they may be 2-3 years away, and who knows if they turn out, but i think 2 out of 3 will for sure. Throw in Justin Schultz (still has a lot to prove) and Marincin and there is a definite upside in the future. So, are they maybe better off to go after guys like Seabrooke or Karl Alzner? Not Norris trophy type guys, but solid 2-3 guys that could help bring the young guys around. Cost would be less for these type of guys and yet still be a drastic upgrade. Ference can be a very effective d-man as a number 4 guy, he is not a top 2 guy. Then if they don't have to spend as much on acquiring a d-man they can maybe have something left to acquire an NHL caliber 2nd line center. Still think Couterier could be got. Goaltending is a whole other issue, but Brossiant has 6 shutouts in 12 games this year, maybe there is some hope there.

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#81 K_Mart
January 25 2014, 12:52PM
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Bucknuck wrote:

If your goalie lets in a bunch of easy shots in this league, you are most likely going to lose. I understand why MacT is spending so much energy on the goalie position, because without it you are dead in the water.

I actually thought the Oilers played pretty well, except Bryz, who seemed better later on in the game, but by then it was too late. The goalies have lost a lot of gmaes for the Oil this year, but can't remember them stealing any.

They are due.

The goalies have stolen 3 i'd say. Bachman against LA stole us a point. Dubnyk against Ottawa, and bryz against Nashville.

However, the goaltending has cost this team at least 10 games this year.

When you're as bad as the Oilers you need at least a .920 sv% backing you to even get a sniff of the playoffs.

A top end goaltender could definitely hide a ton of the problems this team has, but i'm not sure that luongo, lundqvist, rinne ... or any of the top goalies could get this team to the playoffs.

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#82 Serious Gord
January 25 2014, 06:07PM
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Ed in Edmonton wrote:

Someone put a bug in my ear yesterday about Eakins intense aerobic program for the players may be having a negative impact. The players are apparently doing a lot of off ice work to increase their aerobic capacity and stamina. On first blush this seems like a good thing. However, the theory proposed to me is that exercises designed to improve stamina are great for marathon runners but counter-productive for hockey players. Quick reflex muscles regress is such programs and therefore hockey performance regresses. If games were 6 periods long you might see a benefit.

Does anyone know if there is any validity to this? Could this explain why so many players seem off tis year?

This is something that I and others have been musing about ever since he was hired. How a coach can consider himself a conditioning expert is the height of arrogance and ignorance.

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#83 Dave
January 25 2014, 09:53PM
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Shouldn't the Oilers with all of their "talent" have a better power play ? Does the poor power play the result of poor coaching ? I think it does.

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#84 Romanus
January 25 2014, 09:33AM
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Mr common sense wrote:

Why is Mact not pursuing Steve ott? He is the 2nd line C we need, tough sob and a ufa.

How do you know he isn't?

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#85 Danger Pay
January 25 2014, 11:02AM
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book¬°e wrote:

Wait, now the building is making them lose? Now I have heard everything

I have been in about 15 NHL buildings both old and new and find that watching the game is pretty similar in all of them (with the exception of MLG where I had to look around a support post). The difference between buildings is mostly in the concession area.

The losing culture has nothing to do with the city or the building.

Congratulations, you've watched games at other arena's. But did you go to the locker rooms to get interviews a those 15 Buildings? I've heard, that behind the scenes at Rexall is "Dusty""Old" " Dingy" and " Played Out".

When a business is run in an Old, Out Dated Building your telling me it doesn't have an overall effect on the business or it's employees? I'm pretty sure everyone would rather come to work in a building constructed in 2016, and was Clean, Modern, Fresh and Updated as apposed to 1977, Old, Dingy, Dusty,Overall Embarrassing.

Ray Ferraro has said, On Air " He can feel the negative energy when he enters the building" I was hoping JW could confirm what Ferraro has experienced as plausible or BS.

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#86 Hall the time
January 25 2014, 02:55PM
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@Oilanderp wrote:
To those who have tied themselves to the rhetorical mast that we have fired so many that to fire another is counterproductive I ask: you would fire him if that wasn't the situation because he is incompetent, why would you keep because it is the situation? In either circumstance he is incompetent.

Your argument here seems to be:

1. Eakins is incompetent.

2. One should fire an incompetent coach regardless of past coach performance.

3. Eakins should be fired.

While I completely agree with #2, I really don't know about the truth of #1, and you've done nothing to show me that this is the case. However, there is at least a bit of evidence that #1 is NOT the case.

Assume P=Players, C=Coach.

If P+C1 = fail, P+C2=fail, P+C3=fail, P+C4=fail, P+C5=fail ....

Are you SERIOUSLY suggesting to me that P + C6 = success?!?!?!? It seems to me that any reasonable person would have a look at 'P'.

Look at a game and tell me with a straight face there isn't a problem with P, or am I just 'P'ing in the wind here?

Are you talking about Buckberger and SSmith in c1 though c5.

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#87 MessyEH
January 25 2014, 03:55PM
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http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/puck-daddy-presents-kiss-lowe-frustrated-oilers-fans-201608374--nhl.html

Check it out. It's funny cause it's true.

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#88 Ed in Edmonton
January 25 2014, 04:55PM
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Someone put a bug in my ear yesterday about Eakins intense aerobic program for the players may be having a negative impact. The players are apparently doing a lot of off ice work to increase their aerobic capacity and stamina. On first blush this seems like a good thing. However, the theory proposed to me is that exercises designed to improve stamina are great for marathon runners but counter-productive for hockey players. Quick reflex muscles regress is such programs and therefore hockey performance regresses. If games were 6 periods long you might see a benefit.

Does anyone know if there is any validity to this? Could this explain why so many players seem off tis year?

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#89 Rod from Viking
January 25 2014, 07:17PM
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MessyEH wrote:

Before they fire Eakins, they should fire Bucky, Smith and the damn goalie coach. Let Eakins hire his own assistants.

The only way that ever happens is when Lowe is removed from this operation.

I'll give MacT and Eakins a fair chance.

But Lowes gotta go.

I agree, Eakins and Mac T were brought in to try to change the culture, and it seems like the "core" have had their way with the previous coaches and management by being involved in decision 's they shouldn't have been. This along with premature 7 year contracts handed out by management has the room in a turmoil. I have faith in Hall and Nuge but I think Eberle and Gagner need to traded to shake up the core and more importantly bring in a player or two that will improve this team. I am so disappointed that Mac T, Katz and some of the Edmonton. Media I are telling us how critical K Lowe is to the teams future. If Kevin Lowe wants to call the hounds off he needs to be a man and tell the fans he has made a lot of mistakes and has learned by them and 06' and the rings he got as a player have nothing to do with 2014, he is not a good presser person because of his temper and competitiveness so even doing it on Oilers Now would work. This would be far from perfect but even a long time season ticket holder li e my self doesn't,t feel it is right for his family to be run out of town.

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#90 oilersd
January 25 2014, 10:44AM
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dman wrote:

Yak could not have played in the AHL last season.

I stand corrected. But my point is that he was pushed into the majors too soon and it shows this season. I maintain that he will persevere and just needs time and a more experienced and defensive 2nd line to play with.

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#91 Hall the time
January 25 2014, 11:28AM
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My list of players that I would not trade has shrunk a lot this year.

With the coach's not doing their job's I'm willing to trade Ebs, Yak, JSchultz, Kefblom, Nurse and any first round picks away, not because I don't like them or think they cant become great players, it's because they can't do it here theirs no development going on here at all.

Sure Halls doing good but I'm sure he's put it on himself to get better no matter what we need a whole team like him but we don't so that's where coaching comes in.

Oil need Vets ASPA so they can make our coach's look like they know what their doing.

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#92 oilersd
January 25 2014, 12:29PM
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dougtheslug wrote:

Is there any evidence that the player's wouldn't listen to what their last coach, Ralph Krueger, had to say? My recollection is that with arguably a worse roster, they competed pretty hard, won more games in a 48 game schedule than they are likely to this year in 82 games, and were in striking distance of a playoff spot in April. Both special teams last year were top 10 in the league. In fact the progress they made under Ralph was the reason there was so much hope this season, that many hockey people thought the corner had been turned on the rebuild. The players didn't get Ralph fired. It was Mac, acting on a whim. Without due diligence,he hired a minor league coach who thought what worked in the AHL would work in the big leagues. Under Eakins' guidance, the team has regressed in every imaginable way. Player development has stalled and gone backward. Under Eakin's AHL coaching, the team looks more like an AHL team with each game.

Management and coaches. Have. To. Go.

Somehow i doubt that MacT got his business degree and then decided to base the rest of his decisions on coin flips and a magic eight ball. Krueger was a fine coach but you can't blame MacT for putting his own stamp on this organization. It's not like Krueger could have made gags 5 inches taller and 20 lbs heavier. It is difficult to compare the two coaches anyway as the sample size for both is just too narrow. If Krueger had remained at the helm the team may well have been improved this year, but only because he would have been picking up where he left off. Continuity is the answer. Patience and continuity. And i will preemptively state that i am NOT an oilers employee or contractor. Just a regular schmo like the rest of you. I just don't live in the land of negativity that many people do.

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#93 Dan
January 25 2014, 03:08PM
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I think we need to be more patient with Lowe and Eakins and MacT just took over Tambo's mess. We've only been rebuilding for 4 yrs and already this team is competitive on a nightly basis. We almost beat Vancouver and Phoenix. Definite moral victories!! We are going to turn the corner next year and push for a playoff spot.

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#94 Johnnydapunk
January 25 2014, 03:35PM
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On a semi unrelated note, despite all the bitterness and anger and stuff, it seems like the skills competition was quite nice and maybe a welcome break from everything. I like seeing that stuff as there were quite a few kids in the crowd and it's good to see the players looking like they were having some fun out there.

Despite all the bad stuff going on, it's little breaks like that from the pressure that must be good for the team and fans, especially the younger ones. I feel that if you can complain about the bad, you should also praise the good when it happens and this event I will say was good for the Oil to do.

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#95 oilersd
January 25 2014, 03:35PM
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dougtheslug wrote:

In golf we say, "Don't follow up a bad shot with a stupid shot."

Hiring Eakins was the bad shot.

Keeping him despite the evidence that he can't do the job, and preaching patience as the rationale, will be the stupid shot.

While I agree with your little golf quote I think I prefer to wait until the shot has a chance to land before I throw away my clubs.

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#96 MessyEH
January 25 2014, 03:47PM
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@Oilanderp wrote:
To those who have tied themselves to the rhetorical mast that we have fired so many that to fire another is counterproductive I ask: you would fire him if that wasn't the situation because he is incompetent, why would you keep because it is the situation? In either circumstance he is incompetent.

Your argument here seems to be:

1. Eakins is incompetent.

2. One should fire an incompetent coach regardless of past coach performance.

3. Eakins should be fired.

While I completely agree with #2, I really don't know about the truth of #1, and you've done nothing to show me that this is the case. However, there is at least a bit of evidence that #1 is NOT the case.

Assume P=Players, C=Coach.

If P+C1 = fail, P+C2=fail, P+C3=fail, P+C4=fail, P+C5=fail ....

Are you SERIOUSLY suggesting to me that P + C6 = success?!?!?!? It seems to me that any reasonable person would have a look at 'P'.

Look at a game and tell me with a straight face there isn't a problem with P, or am I just 'P'ing in the wind here?

You have failed to note that the variable P has changed substantially in the last 4 seasons. Hell the Roster turned over by better then half in the last 2 years.

The only variable that has never changed is the Lowest one.

At the top.

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#97 Ed in Edmonton
January 25 2014, 08:42AM
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David S wrote:

Yeah Gagner had an off game but holy cow putting Smyth on his line is the kiss of death. Sam lasered a cross-ice pass onto his stick and he broke it on the shot attempt right in the freakin' slot.

And the powerplay. The g*d d*mn powerplay. What the hell has Eakins done to those guys? Used to be we had some kick ass firepower in that part of the game and now you wish we could decline them.

Still waiting for the buzz bombing.

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#98 Randaman
January 25 2014, 10:15AM
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Hey JW, any more updates on the progress of Klefbom since returning from injury?

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#99 K_Mart
January 25 2014, 01:32PM
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Serious Gord wrote:

The question is: Is Eakins a part of the problem or is he a victim/innocent/part of the solution?

I think he is very much a part of the problem. A prototypical example of the dysfunction in management that plagues this team. Exaggerated ability - over paid/contracted not nhl quality - at least not yet.

To those who have tied themselves to the rhetorical mast that we have fired so many that to fire another is counterproductive I ask: you would fire him if that wasn't the situation because he is incompetent, why would you keep because it is the situation? In either circumstance he is incompetent. There is not one thing one can point to that he has done better than the previous coaches and that is better than what an average nhl coach would have done. He has failed in virtually every respect. The team is playing/underperforming as badly now as it was at the start of the season.

My second question to that groups is: if not now, when? At what point in this failure would you fire him? 15 games into the next season? The end of next season? After hall and nuge and eberle and yak have demanded to be traded?

I think it is remote in the extreme that this team will be any better than it is now at the end of this season. And if it remains terrible and underperforming, why waste another year with this pompous, arrogant fool of a coach by letting him start next season?

He isn't incompetent. He's a smart guy. The fact that the team has regressed can fall on the players. They are the ones regressing. To put all their shortcomings on the shoulders of a coach that you've labelled incompetent is a little too presumptuous.

He's pompous, and he's arrogant, but those are not qualities that necessarily make for a bad coach. Scotty Bowman was the same way.

The oilers overall play 5x5 this year isn't far off from last year.

http://nhlnumbers.com/2013/8/8/western-conference-1213-rolling-team-corsi

In fact, the depth players appear to be superior this year when compared to last. The biggest drop off in play (as far as possession goes) that i've seen has been Hall. I really don't think a player as dynamic as hall will be stuck in this rut for long, and he's still finding ways to score despite the poor shot differential numbers.

While the team is as bad now as it was at the beginning of the season, eventually the accountability has to fall on the players.

The PP% isn't all that far off from last year, although the SH goals against is a definitive problem. And the PK looks to be coming around.

To spend another year with the same roster would be a bigger mistake than spending another year with the same coach.

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#100 fasteddy
January 25 2014, 02:01PM
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K_Mart wrote:

For those of you wondering what good firing Klowe would do... It's preventative. It won't save this season, but it will prevent Lowe from whispering the names of players like Belov and Joensuu in the ear of MacT next season and for seasons to come.

I'm not saying Lowe was the reason the oilers were high on those players, but he's the constant and there's a good chance he's been the one that's behind several bad moves.

Who liked Ryan Whitney more than Vis? Who pushed Souray out of town? Who wanted stoll and greene gone? Who liked belov? Joensuu? Labarara? Belanger? Eager?

I don't know how many of the bad moves were due to Lowe, Tambo, or MacT, but I do know that Lowe was here the whole time. Katz can't blame Lowe for the performance of the players, that's on them, but he can prevent him from making poor decisions in the future by getting rid of him. My hope is that MacT just ignores him if Katz refuses to get rid of him.

Your point would make more sense if you were referring to front line players.......I look and wonder where the major blunders have been, and dont see much. Certainly nothing more than most other teams. I realize we all want a pound of flesh, but the screamers on here calling for Lowe's head are fools for thinking things would have been drastically different with someone else at the helm.

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