HARD TARGET SEARCH: BRIAN CAMPBELL

Lowetide
January 30 2014 08:26AM

 

In our continuing look at possible solutions to the Oilers defensive woes, our attention turns to sunny Florida and the Miami entry, the Panthers. Brian Campbell's career as a journeyman obscures his status as a top flight defenseman who has driven results for a long period of time. Now deep into his career, can Brian Campbell help the Oilers? 

TRADES

Brian Campbell has been around a long damn time. Drafted by Buffalo in 1997, he arrived as a regular in 2002 and began delivering terrific offensive seasons after the first lockout. He was sent to San Jose as a rental at the 2008 deadline and signed in Chicago that summer. Wins Stanley, 'Hawks can't afford him anymore, ship him to Florida 2011 summer. 

Campbell's offense has been fairly consistent over the years (he's had a down year or two, as well) and fans who have seen him know exactly what to expect: a fine puck moving defenseman who can help a power play, a defender who can be exposed and a man who once won the Lady Byng. 

That isn't the ideal resume for an Edmonton Oiler defenseman. Oiler fans like their blue tough and physical, and things like hits and blocked shots are very important to the Rexall fan. However, the math tells us winning games is a lot about possession and Campbell's been a killer in this regard for eons. 

THE VOLLMAN SLEDGEHAMMER

This year's sledgehammer shows Campbell in his natural habitat (as you'll see in a minute). He gets a zone start pus (52%) but he also plays tough opposition—and even at 34, having an average season offensively—he still delivers a fine blue bubble. That's a valuable player. 

This is the shortened season, Campbell had even more of a zone start push but once again faced tough opposition. Blue bubble, just as sure as sunrise.  

Crazy, isn't it? It's like he's born to do this: get the zone start push, play tough opponents and flourish! Campbell's consistency flies in the face of what we think of him as a player, but there he is in all his incredibly consistent glory. Sure as sunrise. 

Here's his numbers on a line, and isn't the consistency of the Corsi For % exceptional? Man, that's the good stuff right there. Three years in a row, just rolling these things out like they're nothing. Lordy. Breathtaking. 

HIS CONTRACT IS STUPID

Yes. Campbell has two more years after this one (at $7,142,875!!!!) and that's a consideration. However, that also knocks some off the asset price to acquire him and Campbell isn't 40 (he's 35 in May). 

He's also averaging 27:51 a game (!!!) this year and could serve as an outstanding mentor to young puck movers like Justin Schultz. 

WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?

There  are some real concerns with Campbell. He's an older player, the contract number is high and he's bringing many elements the Oilers already have in a guy like Schultz the younger. 

Still, those possession stats don't lie, he could mentor J Schultz and the dollars will be easier to endure with the new cap (and it's only two seasons). I think Campbell is a player worth considering.  

Up next: a brilliant option closer to home. 

C2a6955161684b5e3189319acfa5ebe4
Lowetide has been one of the Oilogosphere's shining lights for over a century. You can check him out here at OilersNation and at lowetide.ca. He is also the host of Lowdown with Lowetide weekday mornings 10-noon on TSN 1260.
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#1 Ben Scrivens
January 30 2014, 08:40AM
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Ben Scrivens

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#2 RDS
January 30 2014, 08:42AM
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If it means the Oilers won't give up 0.983333 shots per minute, then lets get him!

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#3 superhall
January 30 2014, 08:48AM
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Ben Scrivens wrote:

Ben Scrivens

I also Ben Scrivens

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#4 ColourMeImpressed
January 30 2014, 09:10AM
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How could you possibly think the Oilers need help on the blue, after last night's result?

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#5 YEGFan
January 30 2014, 10:14AM
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Ricky's Jalapeno Chips wrote:

5'10" 190 lbs. Age 34 Cap Hit $7.14 million Really, you would consider this? Opportunity cost…

So the FACT that he is a successful and effective number one defenseman in the NHL is less important than his size? The cap hit is what makes him a legitimate possibility. He'd be considered one of the leagues most valuable assets at a 5-6M cap hit.

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#6 Sliderule
January 30 2014, 08:43AM
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Do we need another small puck mover? This time with a big contract. The oilers need D that can break the cycle. The sharks showed us we don't have that.

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#7 freelancer
January 30 2014, 09:32AM
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@Sisyphys

A big bag of money. But seriously. Overpay for guys like Campbell who can give you 2 solid years of player, work as a mentor, and play your top minutes until guys like Nurse can take the load.

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#9 Rama Lama
January 30 2014, 10:32AM
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Hold it stop everyone.......have we all lost our minds here??

Yes Brian Campbell is the right size for our team and with no real defensive game, he would be a natural fit for this team but even us OIlers fans have some standards.

For anyone to consider this as an option, please check yourself into a mental clinic, you are part of the problem, not part of the solution. We are looking for size, meaness, and the ability to play defence, non of which BC has on his resume.

Please people do NOT give KLowe and more stupid ideas!

LT.......what have you been smoking?

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#10 pelhem grenville
January 30 2014, 08:48AM
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...that's sooooooo much money for a 35 year old for still waaaaaay too long no?

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#11 **
January 30 2014, 01:54PM
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@Oilanderp wrote:

The following is a list of ALL defencemen with more than 20 GP and who average more than 18 minutes of 5on5 per night for their clubs, ranked by CorsiRelQoC, followed by their cap hit in millions:

1. Shea Weber (NSH - $7.85)
2. Roman Josi (NSH- $4)
3. Jan Hejda (COL - $3.25)
4. Erik Johnson (COL - $3.75)
5. Zdeno Chara (BOS - $6.916)
6. Ryan McDonagh (NYR - $4.7)
7. Dan Hamhuis (VAN - $4.5)
8. Alex Pietrangelo (STL - $6.5)
9. T.J. Brodie (CGY - $2.125)
10. Andrew Macdonald (NYI - $0.55)
11. Ryan Suter (MIN - $7.538462)
12. Justin Faulk (CAR - $0.84)
13. Travis Hamonic (NYI - $3.875)
14. Dustin Byfuglien (WPG - $5.2)
15. Calvin DeHaan (NYI - $0.87)
16. Jonas Brodin (MIN - $0.894167)
17. Paul Martin (PIT - $5)
18. Brian Campbell (FLA - $7.142875)
19. Erik Karlsson (OTT - $6.5)
20. P.K. Subban (MTL - $2.875)
21. Drew Doughty (LA - $7)
22. Duncan Keith (CHI - $5.538462)
23. Kris Russell (CGY - $1.5)
24. Mike Green (WSH - $6.083333)
25. Dennis Seidenberg (BOS - $3.25)
26. Keith Yandle (PHX - $5.25)
27. Dmitri Orlov (WSH - $0.69)
28. Dennis Wideman (CGY - $5.25)

Just FYI the Oilers don't have anyone who meets this criteria but they have 3 d-men playing over 17 mins of 5v5 a night: Jultz, Ference, Petry.

Great job. I would like to add their age for my own argument:

1. Shea Weber (NSH - $7.85) 28 yo 2. Roman Josi (NSH- $4) 23 yo 3. Jan Hejda (COL - $3.25) 35 yo 4. Erik Johnson (COL - $3.75) 25 yo 5. Zdeno Chara (BOS - $6.916) 36 yo 6. Ryan McDonagh (NYR - $4.7) 24 yo 7. Dan Hamhuis (VAN - $4.5) 31 yo 8. Alex Pietrangelo (STL - $6.5) 24 yo 9. T.J. Brodie (CGY - $2.125) 23 yo 10. Andrew Macdonald (NYI - $0.55) 27 yo 11. Ryan Suter (MIN - $7.538462) 29 yo 12. Justin Faulk (CAR - $0.84) 21 yo 13. Travis Hamonic (NYI - $3.875) 23 yo 14. Dustin Byfuglien (WPG - $5.2) 28 yo 15. Calvin DeHaan (NYI - $0.87) 22 yo 16. Jonas Brodin (MIN - $0.894167) 20 yo 17. Paul Martin (PIT - $5) 32 yo 18. Brian Campbell (FLA - $7.142875)34 19. Erik Karlsson (OTT - $6.5) 23 yo 20. P.K. Subban (MTL - $2.875)24 yo 21. Drew Doughty (LA - $7) 24 yo 22. Duncan Keith (CHI - $5.538462) 30 yo 23. Kris Russell (CGY - $1.5) 26 yo 24. Mike Green (WSH - $6.083333) 28 yo 25. Dennis Seidenberg (BOS - $3.25) 32 yo 26. Keith Yandle (PHX - $5.25) 27 yo 27. Dmitri Orlov (WSH - $0.69)22 yo 28. Dennis Wideman (CGY - $5.25) 30 yo.

So from this list, let's discount anyone over 34, because there have been numerous articles saying that around that age d men decline: three player over that age on this list, no surprise. Now anyone under 25, because the Oilers don't need more youth: that's 12 players, some of them franchise players who will be unavailable anyways.

These cutoffs leave 13 players:

1. Shea Weber (NSH - $7.85) 28 yo 4. Erik Johnson (COL - $3.75) 25 yo 7. Dan Hamhuis (VAN - $4.5) 31 yo 10. Andrew Macdonald (NYI - $0.55) 27 yo 11. Ryan Suter (MIN - $7.538462) 29 yo 14. Dustin Byfuglien (WPG - $5.2) 28 yo 17. Paul Martin (PIT - $5) 32 yo 22. Duncan Keith (CHI - $5.538462) 30 yo 23. Kris Russell (CGY - $1.5) 26 yo 24. Mike Green (WSH - $6.083333) 28 yo 25. Dennis Seidenberg (BOS - $3.25) 32 yo 26. Keith Yandle (PHX - $5.25) 27 yo 28. Dennis Wideman (CGY - $5.25) 30 yo.

Going by @Oilanderp's criteria and my age criteria, these are the best d men the Oilers should go after:

Shea Weber: would take a lot of pieces to get him.

Erik Johnson: size, performance, age, decent salary cap for a top 2 dman. Given that Hedja is going to hit a wall soon, I doubt the Avs would let go of Johson, specially when the Oilers have nothing they might need.

Dan Hamhius: great fit, but I don't see how he can be taken out of Vancouver to a division rival.

Andrew Macdonald: just enough size, age, ability, UFA, due for his first big contract, from an eastern opponent looking for answers, this is the guy I think the Oilers should go hard after.

Ryan Suter: similar case as Dan Hamhuis.

Dustin Byfuglien: he is currently playing as a winger, if Winnipeg is willing to trade, I say get him. I think it is easier to find ways to motivate than to make someone grow or put on so many pounds while at the same time have skill.

Paul Martin: another option similar to Macdonald, albeit older and with a higher price tag. He could be the veteran need to anchor the Oilers blue line. With the depth of young blue liners, the penguins might be willing to part with Martin, he has just one more year at 5 mill after this season.

Duncan Keith: he's a bigger pipe dream than Shea Webber.

Kris Russell: undersized, not a top pairing guy.

Mike GReen: If Washington misses the playoffs they might consider trading him, he would have one more year at 5 mill. Has size, skill, high salary though. Not sure he can be a top guy night in night out.

Dennis Seidenberg: ideal, like Paul Martin, but just signed an extension with Boston, so I think he is unattainable.

Keith Yandle: same situation as Hamhuis, but a good target to go after. Like Mike green though, may not quite be a top pairing guy.

Dennis Wideman: with Calgary for 3 more years, not a top 3 guy.

Based on these criteria, there's really only 4 guys the Oilers could realistically go after: MacDonald, Martin Green and Bifuglyen. It is going to be hard for Mac T to improve the blue line without moving important pieces. Sorry for the long post.

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#12 Mikey
January 30 2014, 09:13AM
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superhall wrote:

I don't think we gotta look to much for d. We have a lot of depth coming in the system I think we need a solid number one just to help bring the young d into to the nhl. Not sure if Brian Campbell fits that role. Lowetide?

I would say he defiantly fills that role. The oilers need mentor ship, which they could have used 3 years ago. Let's face it the oilers won't win the cup in the next 3 years. There is just no way. So let's spend some money and get someone in here who can teach.

Not only could he help Schultz, but Marincin could also benefit from him. Who cares about his cap hit, we need a #1 D.

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#14 Freewheeling Freddie
January 30 2014, 09:54AM
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Campbell overpaid overrated. Dont ever do it mac T

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#15 vetinari
January 30 2014, 09:27AM
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I don't think that Campbell's asking price would be too steep-- likely a couple of prospects and/or a pick? Everyone hates his contract but with the cap projected to go up, it won't feel as bad of a hit over the next two years.

Also, look at it this way-- if Hemsky walks or gets traded, Campbell is only about $1.6M more per season than Hemmer's current contract and we need to rebalance the roster to get some help on the blueline. Ideally, we'd still have a Fistric or Matt Greene type of player on the backend but those ships have sailed.

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#16 Taylor Gang
January 30 2014, 11:03AM
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fasteddy wrote:

Give your head a shake....Yandle is softer than butter, on the downside, and one dimensional. I'd take him, but not for one of the kids.

1) He may be an offensive defenseman, but he is not one dimensional. He would be a clear upgrade over every defenseman we have.

2) On the downside? He was snubbed off the Team USA roster! He is also on pace for 53 points, which is great for a defenseman.

3) I never said one of the kids, I was referring to perhaps Gagner and a good prospect. Not once did I say Eberle or Yakupov or any one of the fab five.

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#17 fasteddy
January 30 2014, 10:32AM
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@Taylor Gang

Give your head a shake....Yandle is softer than butter, on the downside, and one dimensional. I'd take him, but not for one of the kids.

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#18 Oiler63
January 30 2014, 11:09AM
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He has a NTC. No way he would accept a trade to Edmonton.

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#19 The Last Big Bear
January 30 2014, 02:37PM
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Is this the best place to point out that the Oilers had a physical defenceman that they couldn't be bothered to re-sign last year, who just got locked-up with a 3 year extension by the best team in the NHL?

Not saying Fistric is a candidate for the #1 spot, but suggests that the Oilers might not be appropriately valuing NHL-capable physical defencemen.

Oh, and he's 2nd among Ducks defencemen in Corsi Rel, and has the hardest Corsi QoC of any player on the team. For all you Corsi buffs. But not worth the time of day to the Oilers.

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#20 freelancer
January 30 2014, 08:52AM
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I would definitely agree that he is worth a long look. I think I would be more effective if we could acquire him AND an additional top 4 guy. If we're looking for guys who can "fix" the Oilers blue line, I don't see him doing that alone.

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#21 Mikey
January 30 2014, 10:20AM
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Sisyphys wrote:

We tried the big bag of money approach. With a guy like Hendricks, no less. He passed. A 4th line grinder passed on a big bag of money so he wouldn't have to come here. Granted, he ended up getting traded her anyways, but the point is...I'm not sure big bags of money are going to do it for guys who may be getting offered decent sized bags of money from other teams

Or he passed so he could stay in a city he knows and is familiar with, where his wife and kids live and go to school. You picked a very poor example.

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#22 Mikey
January 30 2014, 10:45AM
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Rama Lama wrote:

Hold it stop everyone.......have we all lost our minds here??

Yes Brian Campbell is the right size for our team and with no real defensive game, he would be a natural fit for this team but even us OIlers fans have some standards.

For anyone to consider this as an option, please check yourself into a mental clinic, you are part of the problem, not part of the solution. We are looking for size, meaness, and the ability to play defence, non of which BC has on his resume.

Please people do NOT give KLowe and more stupid ideas!

LT.......what have you been smoking?

I can agree Brian is small and isn't mean but he can play some D. Right now he is playing with Tom Gilbert (who is tied for team lead in points at an amazing 24) and is only -1 on a team that has only scored 129 goals (good for 26th)

Also he is a realistic player Edm could acquire.

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#23 Ricky's Jalapeno Chips
January 30 2014, 09:44AM
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5'10" 190 lbs. Age 34 Cap Hit $7.14 million Really, you would consider this? Opportunity cost…

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#24 OF17
January 30 2014, 10:07AM
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I don't see why Florida would trade him. They feel just as much pressure as we do to make the playoffs, and they really don't have much besides Campbell to carry the defensive load. Add to that the fact that Campbell's contract is actually a positive for them in helping them reach the floor, and that Tallon has consistently sung Campbell's praises across two separate organizations, and the Oilers would be in tough to acquire him.

What do we have to offer? Gagner +? Can't see Florida going for that. I'd think about a Klefbom for Campbell trade, but I'm not sure that they would, and even then, that's giving up a young, promising asset for 2 years of Campbell. The 1st rounder is too much.

I'd absolutely love to see Campbell as an Oiler, absolutely love it, but I don't see a way to make it happen.

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#25 Citizen David
January 30 2014, 12:57PM
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Rama Lama wrote:

Do you really want another small, non-physical, defenceman? I would contend we have enough of these types of players?

I want a top pairing defenseman. Which Brian Campbell is. We get one of those it pushes everyone down a level of competition they face. I don't care one bit about the size of players just if they can play and Campbell can play.

BTW our prospects that are starting to knock on the door (or in Marincin's case, kick it down) are towers. Size on the back end will not be a problem much longer.

Besides it isn't even size but skill and compete level. Nik Lindstrom wasn't a bull dog, wasn't big but I would take a 35 year old Lindstrom on our team in a second regardless our our "size"

We need better players not bigger players. See Brian Campbell.

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#26 Harry
January 30 2014, 01:22PM
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Rama Lama wrote:

Hold it stop everyone.......have we all lost our minds here??

Yes Brian Campbell is the right size for our team and with no real defensive game, he would be a natural fit for this team but even us OIlers fans have some standards.

For anyone to consider this as an option, please check yourself into a mental clinic, you are part of the problem, not part of the solution. We are looking for size, meaness, and the ability to play defence, non of which BC has on his resume.

Please people do NOT give KLowe and more stupid ideas!

LT.......what have you been smoking?

Some people just never learn. 5'10" 190 is just too damn small no matter how you look at it. I could see if we already had big dmen buy we dont.

What is it going to take for people to realize that Edm needs size?

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#27 Mikey
January 30 2014, 02:47PM
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The Last Big Bear wrote:

Is this the best place to point out that the Oilers had a physical defenceman that they couldn't be bothered to re-sign last year, who just got locked-up with a 3 year extension by the best team in the NHL?

Not saying Fistric is a candidate for the #1 spot, but suggests that the Oilers might not be appropriately valuing NHL-capable physical defencemen.

Oh, and he's 2nd among Ducks defencemen in Corsi Rel, and has the hardest Corsi QoC of any player on the team. For all you Corsi buffs. But not worth the time of day to the Oilers.

Not sure what your point is. Are you saying the oilers should have kept him? His cap hit at 1.2, suggest he is a 5-7 D man. His games played suggest more of a 7. For the record I would rather him than potter.

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#28 Mikey
January 30 2014, 08:49AM
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Hey LT, what do you think the asking price would be?

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#29 Al Low
January 30 2014, 09:01AM
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Campbell could be a good option until a guy like Nurse is ready to be the 1st pairing guy we are all projecting him to be.

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#30 big slick
January 30 2014, 09:44AM
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With floor being and issue would Hemsky for Campbell work? They could keep some of his salary too.

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#31 The Last Big Bear
January 30 2014, 11:19AM
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Look at the top 10 Corsi Rel defencemen in the NHL.

Oh look, Martin Marincin leads the league. As you would expect for any reasonable measure of defenceman ability.

Followed in a close second by Jean-Phillipe Cote. And rounding out the top-10 are perennial Norris candidates like Anton Strahlman, Matt Donovan, James Wisniewski, and Jake Muzzin.

How can anyone can claim with a straight face that we should be using Corsi numbers to evaluate defencemen? There are maybe 4 guys in the top-30 Corsi defencemen who would be on a list of the top-30 actual defencemen. That's literally what picking a random list of 30 defencemen would produce. If we're using Corsi as a measuring stick for defencemen, then this series is unnecessary, as the Oilers already have two guys who are currently performing as #1 defenders, in Marincin and Larsen, both top-30 in the league.

I'm all on board with using Corsi measures to evaluate forwards. And I totally feel the nations-network love for underrated Corsi stars like Mikael Backlund and Mikhail Grabovski.

But Corsi numbers do not correlate with defenceman performance. You might expect them to, just like you might expect blocked shots, or on-ice Sv% to be reflective of a defenceman's ability. But just like those other numbers, Corsi measures bear no relation to a player's performance as a defender.

Corsi numbers mean about as much in evaluating defencemen as they do in evaluating goalies. If you think I'm kidding, look up the top Corsi goalies in the NHL, and tell me that list is worse than the top Corsi defencemen.

.

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#32 Tikkanese
January 30 2014, 01:57PM
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Rama Lama wrote:

You must be talking about a different Nick Lidstrom.......I remember him being over 6'2" ( 210 lbs) not 5'8' (175 lbs) like BC is.

Why do fans like you believe you cant get size and skill in the same package? I for one do not want anymore small, physically incapable defencemen on our team. We play in a different division where size matters.......unlike the eastern conferences.

Mac T already found the smallest defenceman available in Ference and you want more.........no wonder this team is spinning it's wheels!!

Size isn't everything. Your "behemoth" example of Lidstrom is silly. He couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag. Neither can Campbell for that matter but that's not the point. He's a top pairing defencemen, that is attainable and that is something the Oilers need badly.

Ference may be on the smaller side, but he plays big. That matters. Size isn't everything. Petry and Gilbert are both big but do not play big if you want a couple examples.

Not every defencemen is the prototypicle big, plays big, great passer, great leader, minute eater that would solve every problem the Oilers have. Not many teams have two of those let alone one. Campbell would solve most of those issues and at only two years left isn't really a risk at all.

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#33 Citizen David
January 30 2014, 04:43PM
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Rama Lama wrote:

You must be talking about a different Nick Lidstrom.......I remember him being over 6'2" ( 210 lbs) not 5'8' (175 lbs) like BC is.

Why do fans like you believe you cant get size and skill in the same package? I for one do not want anymore small, physically incapable defencemen on our team. We play in a different division where size matters.......unlike the eastern conferences.

Mac T already found the smallest defenceman available in Ference and you want more.........no wonder this team is spinning it's wheels!!

Do you every remember Lindstrom throwing his weight around? Ever? No one was afraid of him physically dominating anyone. I would love a Chris Pronger that is the whole package but I don't want to pay the price that would cost. Campbell just might be actually available. And he's a darn good defenseman.

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#34 Sisyphys
January 30 2014, 09:14AM
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Although I think its good to start looking at D options, given how our entire d corps gets blown up this off-season, I think we're getting ahead of ourselves.

What we really need to be asking is--why would any decent veteran dman want to come to Edmonton to play? Put yourself in their shoes--yes, if they're traded here they don't have a choice, but we cant afford to trade for all the d slots we're going to need to fill. In fact, we can trade for about one dman, and that's it. The rest will need to come via free agency. Assuming, of course, we wont touch our young studs.

So lets say we don't put any of the young guys up on the block. How are we supposed to convince anyone to come here? Look at how we play, at the dysfunction, at the forwards who wont be defensively responsible, etc. I'm just thinking its going to be very, very hard to get any FA's who are worth a thing to sign here.

Vote me down all you want, but I'm still on the trade a big name player kick. Hall, RNH, or Eberle. To get back a solid dman to help mentor our youngsters on D, to help them hopefully not fester and flail all the way to another bottom finish next year

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#35 Taylor Gang
January 30 2014, 10:06AM
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If we strike out on the big fish defenseman in the summer, I say what the heck?

A stop gap is EXACTLY what this team needs. Nurse is at least a year from being an NHL regular, and probably 4 years away from being a top 2 stud. Might as well teach the kids how to win before Nurse and Klefbom show up.

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#36 Taylor Gang
January 30 2014, 10:12AM
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LT, my question is what if the Oilers decided to get even more bold than that? I've mentioned on this site before that Yandle would be a perfect addition to the Oilers blueline. His cap hit is 5.25 million and he's worth every penny of it. Do you think the Oilers may consider parting ways with one of our better forwards for him?

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#37 Mikey
January 30 2014, 10:28AM
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OF17 wrote:

I don't see why Florida would trade him. They feel just as much pressure as we do to make the playoffs, and they really don't have much besides Campbell to carry the defensive load. Add to that the fact that Campbell's contract is actually a positive for them in helping them reach the floor, and that Tallon has consistently sung Campbell's praises across two separate organizations, and the Oilers would be in tough to acquire him.

What do we have to offer? Gagner +? Can't see Florida going for that. I'd think about a Klefbom for Campbell trade, but I'm not sure that they would, and even then, that's giving up a young, promising asset for 2 years of Campbell. The 1st rounder is too much.

I'd absolutely love to see Campbell as an Oiler, absolutely love it, but I don't see a way to make it happen.

I have to agree with you. I don't know what edmonton could trade to get him. They would likely want a roster D in the trade and if were to trade Klefbom, it had better be for a younger player than Campbell.

Maybe to get the deal done you enfold more players?

Campbell + BJUGSTAD for Gagner, Klafbom and some other pieces. But I still don't think Florida would do it.

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#38 Citizen David
January 30 2014, 10:30AM
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Campbell would be number one on my list. If we get him that's a major win.

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#39 wintoon
January 30 2014, 10:50AM
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This may fall within the parameters of "beggars can't be overly choosy". The Oilers need a player to fill the mentorship role because it is obvious our Assistant Coach (Smith) is incapable of providing this. Furthermore, with his consistent blue bubble, he should be able to provide good service to our top offensive players. This, in itself, would be a huge uptick. Providing the price is doable, this is a hard target worth pursuing.

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#40 Rama Lama
January 30 2014, 01:28PM
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Ricky's Jalapeno Chips wrote:

The Oil are (generally) small and easy to play against. Last night's game was a good example. In my opinion (I go to a lot of games) they need to get bigger and harder to play against, i.e. grittier. His cap hit is 7.14 for two more years. It would probably take a lot of good assets (players/picks) to get him.

In my opinion, he is too small, too expensive to acquire, and takes up to much cap space ($2.14 million for two more years). The Oil cannot compete with bigger, "heavier" teams. I would favour one or two cheaper, tougher d-men to be the transition until some of the younger guys in the pipeline are here and settled into important roles. Last night was a good sample of how easy the Oil are to play against. I don't think Brian Campbell will help us compete with L.A., St. Louis, Anaheim, etc. I agree that Campbell is a valuable asset, but, all things considered, he is not what we need.

Thank You........well said.

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#41 Mikey
January 30 2014, 01:42PM
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Rama Lama wrote:

You must be talking about a different Nick Lidstrom.......I remember him being over 6'2" ( 210 lbs) not 5'8' (175 lbs) like BC is.

Why do fans like you believe you cant get size and skill in the same package? I for one do not want anymore small, physically incapable defencemen on our team. We play in a different division where size matters.......unlike the eastern conferences.

Mac T already found the smallest defenceman available in Ference and you want more.........no wonder this team is spinning it's wheels!!

Your memory is shot. Lidstrom is 6'1 190. Campbell is 5'10 190.

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#42 Mikey
January 30 2014, 01:45PM
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Ricky's Jalapeno Chips wrote:

The Oil are (generally) small and easy to play against. Last night's game was a good example. In my opinion (I go to a lot of games) they need to get bigger and harder to play against, i.e. grittier. His cap hit is 7.14 for two more years. It would probably take a lot of good assets (players/picks) to get him.

In my opinion, he is too small, too expensive to acquire, and takes up to much cap space ($2.14 million for two more years). The Oil cannot compete with bigger, "heavier" teams. I would favour one or two cheaper, tougher d-men to be the transition until some of the younger guys in the pipeline are here and settled into important roles. Last night was a good sample of how easy the Oil are to play against. I don't think Brian Campbell will help us compete with L.A., St. Louis, Anaheim, etc. I agree that Campbell is a valuable asset, but, all things considered, he is not what we need.

How do you know he is expensive to acquire? So you would rather have more 5-7 Dmen instead of a true #1? We tried that, it didn't work.

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#43 Sisyphys
January 30 2014, 09:44AM
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@freelancer

We tried the big bag of money approach. With a guy like Hendricks, no less. He passed. A 4th line grinder passed on a big bag of money so he wouldn't have to come here. Granted, he ended up getting traded her anyways, but the point is...I'm not sure big bags of money are going to do it for guys who may be getting offered decent sized bags of money from other teams

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#44 Fish
January 30 2014, 11:37AM
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You missed spelled Brian Campbell, in the sentence Brian Campbell should be a consideration. Its spelled, Kulikov.

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#45 @Oilanderp
January 30 2014, 11:53AM
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The Last Big Bear wrote:

Look at the top 10 Corsi Rel defencemen in the NHL.

Oh look, Martin Marincin leads the league. As you would expect for any reasonable measure of defenceman ability.

Followed in a close second by Jean-Phillipe Cote. And rounding out the top-10 are perennial Norris candidates like Anton Strahlman, Matt Donovan, James Wisniewski, and Jake Muzzin.

How can anyone can claim with a straight face that we should be using Corsi numbers to evaluate defencemen? There are maybe 4 guys in the top-30 Corsi defencemen who would be on a list of the top-30 actual defencemen. That's literally what picking a random list of 30 defencemen would produce. If we're using Corsi as a measuring stick for defencemen, then this series is unnecessary, as the Oilers already have two guys who are currently performing as #1 defenders, in Marincin and Larsen, both top-30 in the league.

I'm all on board with using Corsi measures to evaluate forwards. And I totally feel the nations-network love for underrated Corsi stars like Mikael Backlund and Mikhail Grabovski.

But Corsi numbers do not correlate with defenceman performance. You might expect them to, just like you might expect blocked shots, or on-ice Sv% to be reflective of a defenceman's ability. But just like those other numbers, Corsi measures bear no relation to a player's performance as a defender.

Corsi numbers mean about as much in evaluating defencemen as they do in evaluating goalies. If you think I'm kidding, look up the top Corsi goalies in the NHL, and tell me that list is worse than the top Corsi defencemen.

.

Try 5v5 Corsi Rel QoC (Relative Corsi Quality of Competition), which is the average Relative Corsi of opposing players, weighted by head-to-head ice time.

THIS¹ list might look a little more like what you would expect to see.

If I were looking for a #1 d-man I would take that list I linked to and scroll down and look hard at guys with more than 18 minutes of 5v5 ice-time. I haven't done it but I would imagine it would be a list to drool over.

EDIT: Now that I think of it I wonder how LT generated his list of hopefuls? Probably something similar before crossing off the names that have no chance to be traded or would cost to much to acquire.

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#46 Rama Lama
January 30 2014, 12:30PM
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Citizen David wrote:

Correction we're looking for a top pairing defenceman that might be attainable. See Campbell.

Do you really want another small, non-physical, defenceman? I would contend we have enough of these types of players?

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#47 Rama Lama
January 30 2014, 01:14PM
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Citizen David wrote:

I want a top pairing defenseman. Which Brian Campbell is. We get one of those it pushes everyone down a level of competition they face. I don't care one bit about the size of players just if they can play and Campbell can play.

BTW our prospects that are starting to knock on the door (or in Marincin's case, kick it down) are towers. Size on the back end will not be a problem much longer.

Besides it isn't even size but skill and compete level. Nik Lindstrom wasn't a bull dog, wasn't big but I would take a 35 year old Lindstrom on our team in a second regardless our our "size"

We need better players not bigger players. See Brian Campbell.

You must be talking about a different Nick Lidstrom.......I remember him being over 6'2" ( 210 lbs) not 5'8' (175 lbs) like BC is.

Why do fans like you believe you cant get size and skill in the same package? I for one do not want anymore small, physically incapable defencemen on our team. We play in a different division where size matters.......unlike the eastern conferences.

Mac T already found the smallest defenceman available in Ference and you want more.........no wonder this team is spinning it's wheels!!

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#48 Ricky's Jalapeno Chips
January 30 2014, 01:15PM
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YEGFan wrote:

So the FACT that he is a successful and effective number one defenseman in the NHL is less important than his size? The cap hit is what makes him a legitimate possibility. He'd be considered one of the leagues most valuable assets at a 5-6M cap hit.

The Oil are (generally) small and easy to play against. Last night's game was a good example. In my opinion (I go to a lot of games) they need to get bigger and harder to play against, i.e. grittier. His cap hit is 7.14 for two more years. It would probably take a lot of good assets (players/picks) to get him.

In my opinion, he is too small, too expensive to acquire, and takes up to much cap space ($2.14 million for two more years). The Oil cannot compete with bigger, "heavier" teams. I would favour one or two cheaper, tougher d-men to be the transition until some of the younger guys in the pipeline are here and settled into important roles. Last night was a good sample of how easy the Oil are to play against. I don't think Brian Campbell will help us compete with L.A., St. Louis, Anaheim, etc. I agree that Campbell is a valuable asset, but, all things considered, he is not what we need.

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#49 @Oilanderp
January 30 2014, 02:02PM
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@G bear

Since people want size, I have modified the list I made earlier in the thread.

I made a list of ALL defencemen with more than 20 GP and who average more than 18 minutes of 5on5 per night for their clubs, ranked by CorsiRelQoC, followed by their cap hit in millions. Then I crossed out the guys who are shorter than 6'2" or less than 200lbs. Then, as Gbear has suggested I crossed off guys who are 34 years or older:

1. Shea Weber (NSH - $7.85)
2. Roman Josi (NSH- $4)
3. Jan Hejda (COL - $3.25)
4. Erik Johnson (COL - $3.75)
5. Zdeno Chara (BOS - $6.916)
6. Ryan McDonagh (NYR - $4.7)
7. Dan Hamhuis (VAN - $4.5)
8. Alex Pietrangelo (STL - $6.5)
9. T.J. Brodie (CGY - $2.125)
10. Andrew Macdonald (NYI - $0.55)
11. Ryan Suter (MIN - $7.538462)
12. Justin Faulk (CAR - $0.84)
13. Travis Hamonic (NYI - $3.875)
14. Dustin Byfuglien (WPG - $5.2)
15. Calvin DeHaan (NYI - $0.87)
16. Jonas Brodin (MIN - $0.894167)
17. Paul Martin (PIT - $5)
18. Brian Campbell (FLA - $7.142875)
19. Erik Karlsson (OTT - $6.5)
20. P.K. Subban (MTL - $2.875)
21. Drew Doughty (LA - $7)
22. Duncan Keith (CHI - $5.538462)
23. Kris Russell (CGY - $1.5)
24. Mike Green (WSH - $6.083333)
25. Dennis Seidenberg (BOS - $3.25)
26. Keith Yandle (PHX - $5.25)
27. Dmitri Orlov (WSH - $0.69)
28. Dennis Wideman (CGY - $5.25)

Just for reference, Scott Stevens was 6' 200lbs, and so would be "too small"™ to make this list.

If we want a d-man who is big and plays a lot of minutes against tough competition, that leaves 5 players on this list.

EDIT: If we use Gbear's 'likelihood of getting that player' criterion, then it reduces this list to ONE player: Big Buf. Lord, what have we done? Do we want him? What would WPG want?

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#50 YEGFan
January 30 2014, 03:23PM
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Harry wrote:

Some people just never learn. 5'10" 190 is just too damn small no matter how you look at it. I could see if we already had big dmen buy we dont.

What is it going to take for people to realize that Edm needs size?

You are arguing on the premise that size is the most important criterion when determining a player's value. I will never agree with you because your premise has been proven irrefutably wrong countless times. I have friends that are 6 4" 240lbs, they should NOT be in the NHL.

I really like the Scott Stevens reference. He is the perfect example of a player "playing big." "Playing big" is just a way of describing skill. It's mostly body positioning and it's a talent. You are wrong if you think physical size is necessary to achieve that talent.

Anybody claiming this team must have players of a certain size or weight is willfully ignoring obvious facts and evidence (doing something like that is usually described as stupidity).

Size can be helpful, but it is only helpful because it enhances the actually necessary skills to play hockey.

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