Oilers acquire Mark Fraser from Toronto

Jonathan Willis
January 31 2014 09:06AM

TSN's Darren Dreger reports that the Oilers have added some size to their blue line, adding Mark Fraser from Toronto.

What The Oilers Sent Away

The players going the other way in the deal were both outside of the organization's plans, so the cost on this isn't especially dear.

Teemu Hartikainen is having a pretty good season in Russia and has to be the guy the Leafs were interested in on this deal. He's a big winger with some skill who couldn't do much in 23 NHL games last season with the Oilers; he wasn't interested in staying in the organization on a two-way deal and so he went off to Russia. I've been told down the line that this isn't a player that Edmonton really had plans for, but that doesn't mean he might not break out with the Leafs. 

Cameron Abney, the other guy in the trade, has negative value; he's an ECHL enforcer taking up a spot on Edmonton's 50-man list. In the Oilers' organization he was passed as a player by Erick Lizon (currently with the CHL's Wichita Thunder). 

What the Oilers Added

Everybody hoping Edmonton would add a big, physical defenceman for the third pair got their wish today.

Fraser is listed at 6'4", 220 pounds. He has had three fights in the NHL this season; last year he had nine fights in the majors and eight in the AHL. He's a stay-at-home defenceman who plays a throwback style; the new Theo Peckham on Edmonton's blue line. 

As for what he is as a player? Theo Peckham isn't far-off as a comparison there, either. Fraser has struggled badly this year, with regular partners Paul Ranger and Morgan Rielly both faring better without him than with him. Of interest, though, is the way he and Cody Franson played together last season, and the way his regular partners in New Jersey (primarily Andy Greene and Johnny Oduya) played with and without him. He has had a measure of success in the NHL before, even if he isn't enjoying that this season.

For the time being the pending unrestricted free agent can provide the Oilers with physical play in the six/seven slot and provide the Oilers with a warm body if they choose to move other free agents like Anton Belov or Nick Schultz or Corey Potterat the deadline. He has familiarity with Dallas Eakins from time spent with the Marlies, so he should slot in to the Oilers system with relative ease, and his skillset is a nice fit alongside any of Potter, Philip Larsen or Taylor Fedun on that bottom pair.

This is a small trade, but it adds a dimension the Oilers were lacking at the cost of players the team didn't really care about anyway. The player with the most potential to be an NHL difference-maker went to Toronto, but Hartikainen wasn't going to be that guy in Edmonton and the trade market for 'tweeners who want one-way deals isn't as robust as it could be. 

Update - via @Steve_Dangle of Leafs Nation comes this Hockey Night in Canada segment on Fraser:

Additionally, Jeff Veillette - who covered Fraser in person when Fraser played for the AHL's Toronto Marlies - wrote a piece on the trade for Leafs Nation.

Recently by Jonathan Willis

74b7cedc5d8bfbe88cf071309e98d2c3
Jonathan Willis is a freelance writer. He currently works for Oilers Nation, the Edmonton Journal and Bleacher Report. He's co-written three books and worked for myriad websites, including Grantland, ESPN, The Score, and Hockey Prospectus. He was previously the founder and managing editor of Copper & Blue.
Avatar
#251 Walter Sobchak
January 31 2014, 05:16PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers
DisappointedFan wrote:

See my major problem with this trade is that it is taking the spot of guys who could "try-out" for next year. (Fedun/Klefbom/Gernat)Unless MacT is doing this because he doesn't want to see them and would rather they take the Barons to a "successful" playoff run.

Valid!

I would far rather Klefbom get some time up playing with the big club, get him use to the systems Eakins wants now so it's not so foreign when training camp opens next season.

By the time the Oilers season ends Klefbom will be ready for the Barons run, similar to what they did with Paajarvi & Lander.

Avatar
#252 toprightcorner
January 31 2014, 06:50PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers
vetinari wrote:

It was the other guy who took up the roster space... Harti's rights don't count against the 50 man contract list. We also unloaded a ECHL fighter who didn't likely have a chance to ever see the NHL in the process.

Thanx for confirming, thats what I thought so we didnt gain a contract spot but we didnt add one either.

Thanks again

Avatar
#253 DAVE
January 31 2014, 08:00PM
Trash it!
15
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers

I for one would have like to see Pitlick and Harti in the top 9 next year at the beginning of the season. WHY IN THE WIDE WORLD OF SPORTS is MacT loading up on AHL D, I know MacT. quit the booze, but, Fraser is not a regular roster player at 28, so why make this trade in the first place.

This trade has no relavance on this season, or any past this one, except unless Harti goes to T.O. and becomes a energy player on the third line, and want's to hurt anybody wearing a oiler's jersey.

Avatar
#254 Josh Oiler
January 31 2014, 09:02PM
Trash it!
21
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers
Rick Stroppel wrote:

OMG WHAT HAVE I DONE!

Please forgive me! I woke up the real "Josh Oiler"!

I'm flattered as you should be as well as I'm not monetarily charging for my presence or wide knowledge of hockey an the Oilers.

Your Welcome!

Avatar
#255 Shaner
January 31 2014, 11:38PM
Trash it!
13
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers

I think this comment sums it up best.......oh how I miss these days!

Thank you rheumatoid arthritis--I am on Twitter.I have only used it a few times and am still new,i cant get on it now as I forgot my password and havent reset it yet,but I am learning and will do that soon.I dont really know how it all works yet.I set it up during the playoffs last year to acess a specific team ASAP but didnt really use the account after that I think I made 4 tweets.I am not a Tweeter by nature.I am nervous using it because I am not sure exactly who the tweets go to --all I know is I get tons of Twitter stuff in my e-mail--time to sharpen up I guess.

I dont really prefer a social media format as I dont play well with others who arent into winning 100% and unless I start a blog I need to use proper forum manners which I find to confining when I am trying to problem solve.I am on ATS "moma2s NewAge Hockey System" its not an organised blog but its a NHS thread you can respond on.Right now its pretty much a maze of random posts,all NHS related,but not in chronological order at all.I was a player/coach through high school-coached 3 teams and played on one myself so I have some very basic competative tactics and philosophys to share,not much but some.It seems in many cases the tactics and ideas fit really well into a hockey mindset.But anything new is always denied until it proves itself to be superior to the old.To be quite honest I am used to competing and in that environment I am in control and a constant communicator and very verbally involved,I was a quiet leader in practises and a loud verbal one in competition,as a result I am used to people just trusting me based on results they are personally witnessing that prevent them from questioning me and my tactics.It saves tons of time when you can just do it and show someone.I am very ill-prepared to handle the constant questions and debates from people that i am forced to accept when I cant just go out and do it as an answer to their inquiries or simply have them comply first and experience the results and ask questions later??So I end up writing huge volumes of text because if i was on the ice I would be considering all of these things--so how can I justifiably leave anything out if I am playing to win or teaching to win???

90% of the time the questions are the same from people,the sticking points are the same and it is soooo frustrating because hockey is so well coached from such a young age that players are indoctrinated and really handcuffed into conforming to convention and tradition or they just dont ever hit the ice.And my lack of basic hockey knowledge drives people batty especially when after two thousand words they finally get it--they couldnt define the dynamic situations but they had all of the data all along--which I wasnt getting,ha ha ha.I think and communicate in dynamic terms always,I cant change that anymore than I could throw any type of game on purpose,its just not possible.

If a G.M just told a team I was a consultant with carte-blanche and didnt give any more dynamic data other than I was untouchable as per managment then Players would listen and learn new dynamic tactics faster than in other sports because then that deep and complete coaching system would be working in my favor even if some of what i said was counter to conventional thinking.But if there is even the slightest chance that conventional thinking and tradition can be used to trump or impede me ,all is lost because those steel trap hockey minds will instinctively revert to their lifetime of teaching.I personally would have paid attention as a competitor to the freaking janitor just out of curiosity and the understanding that critical data can come from literally anywhere. Social forums are a death-trap for my methods.But alas I need the hockey brains because I have no technical baseline as a non-player--just a dynamic baseline from being a winner at many other sports.I NEED the people who fight new ideas so i can learn what they are thinking and seeing dynamicly.The problem starts after we communicate and I begin to introduce non-traditional dynamic actions,because all hockey players do is demand results or shut down,they are seriously not even willing to explore anything that isnt 100% results based,they are like storm-troopers.So I hit and run,post and duck,make a point and retreat to let the smoke clear--and do it again.Its the long way but without the basic hockey knowledgebase to properly do a blog I need hockey peoples perspectives controversy or not.

I love coming here because of the direct and short manner in which hockey people make their points and counterpoints based in large on each ones paralell personel experience,I learn a tremendous amount from them.I know that even a pee-wee player outguns me here but it is a learning environment for me not them,I know I am the one asking strange questions and presenting strange ideas to them.But I also know that places like this are the BEST resource if you are trying to learn about the game and how it works aside from just watching games on TV. Hope to see you on the moma2 thread when I straighten out Twitter I will post the name there.But I am here the most where I can learn the most.

Avatar
#256 Bucknuck
February 01 2014, 12:03AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers
KSC10032 wrote:

A decent analogy, although only time will tell just how much upside young Fraser will eventually display.

The same circumstances -- almost exactly -- also apply to the acquisition of one Craig Muni, who was also a Leafs castoff.

Luke Richardson was also a leafs cast off, though he was in his early 20's when the Oil acquired him. same kind of player.

I see a trend.

Avatar
#257 Chainsawz
February 01 2014, 12:04AM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers
Will wrote:

Hmm, I see a lot of fans on here that watch hockey, but maybe don't really follow it. By that I mean anyone on here who thinks they never should have let Mark Fistric walk clearly does not understand that a guy like that is simply not worth the money he wanted. Big checking bottom pairing stay at home defenders are a dime a dozen in this and the AHL. An Nhl team should never be paying more than 1 mill per year for a guy who doesn't contribute offensively.

Fistric aside, I liked Smid, but I don't even think he was worth the money.

Anyone saying Mac T is a bad GM after only a year in the chair is crazy. Compared to Bambi this guy has been great. His expensive moves have paid off (Perron, Gordon). Most have his low risk moves have been good (Gazdic, Belov, Scrivens, Bryz). And the ones that have been bad, well they aren't signed long term for any amount of money so who cares (Macntyre, the other russian defenseman, Larsen). If anything the only questionable one was Ferrence, and really Mac T needed to bring in something and he knew he'd have to overpay to do it.

He is doing exactly what he said he'd do, build a tougher team around our top talent. The guy maybe hasn't yet pulled of a huge block buster, but so far I think he's done way more good than bad, and in a very short amount of time.

The only reason I trashed this comment is because you compared Tambellini to MacTavish. So what? A brick with a dunce cap could manage a team better. Doesn't make that brick a good manager.

MacTavish has been busy but let's not confuse busy with productive. This is still a basement team.

Avatar
#258 Lawndemon
February 01 2014, 01:16AM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers

You know your team is bad when a blog post about the Oilers acquiring a press box castaway from the Leafs generates 295 posts debating the merit of the addition.

What would happen here if MacT actually made a significant move?

Avatar
#259 MessyEH
February 01 2014, 06:26AM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers

300 posts over a nothing trade?

Avatar
#260 YEGFan
January 31 2014, 10:12AM
Trash it!
9
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
Sal-Sational wrote:

Im ok with the deal.Our Back End is Kind of looking Big and strong and tough to play against. J.Schultz (6'2) - N.Schultz (6'1) / A.Ference (5'11); Petry (6'3) - Marinčin (6'4); now Belov (6'4) - Fraser (6'4)

Is anybody surprised that the league's worst defense isn't all that small?

Avatar
#261 YEGFan
January 31 2014, 10:14AM
Trash it!
9
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
Kenta wrote:

I guess the Oilers don't need Giordano now. LOL.

6'0 200lbs?! Too small. Not what the Oilers need.

Avatar
#262 DisappointedFan
January 31 2014, 10:54AM
Trash it!
9
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
oilersd wrote:

Fistric wanted 2 mil to sign with oilers. Ducks got him for 900 000. Third pairing dmen are not that hard to come by as evidenced by the current crop of oilers d. This move is strategy for a later deal IMO.

So you're telling me that the current crop of oilers d make hits and are physical?

Avatar
#263 Oasis
January 31 2014, 11:20AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers

@Oasis

Never got to page 2 of the comments and just saw Zarney's #60. Sorry for the repost.

Avatar
#264 Serious Gord
January 31 2014, 11:45AM
Trash it!
26
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
Hemmercules wrote:

The only reason you buy out Hemmer in that situation is if you have a player as good or better coming in. They didn't have that obviously. Sure they could have just bought him out and hoped they could find another equal player somewhere between the start of the season and the trade deadline but I guess that wasnt a gamble they wanted to take.

Now they can maybe get something for him at the deadline rather than pay him millions to walk away.

None other than bill belechik has said that the most important thing in a cap league to have is plenty of cap room during the season. Having it enables one to fill holes due to injury or other unforeseen things but also to have the space to pick up players from other teams under cap space pressure - like Philly was early this season.

Having lots of cap space would have given the oil much more options. Buying out hemsky didn't require another move to be done - it should have been done in order to be ready to take advantage of future opportunities.

Part of the reason why all of MacT's in-season deals have been such small ball is because he lacks the cap room roster space to make a big ones.

Avatar
#265 Oiler Al
January 31 2014, 12:42PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers

No harm done, if the guy isnt part of the future he is gone at the end of season if need be. Oiler get to audition the guy for remainder of the season.

Hendricks sandpaper rubbed off on almost all of the team, and Fraser may add to this demension. Heck he might even drop the gloves if need be. Certainly Gadzic hasnt done much of it lately, and has left it up to guys like Jones and Hendricks.

Different postitions but Fraser will add more to this team than Gadzic, for what its worth.

Avatar
#266 Taylor Gang
January 31 2014, 12:48PM
Trash it!
14
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
Jonathan Willis wrote:

Less than the combination of Ales Hemsky and Nick Schultz. The Oilers have the room to add him.

Nick Schultz is worth a million less than what he's paid and Hemsky is worth about 2.5 million as well. You're comparing two overpaid players to one.

Avatar
#267 Serious Gord
January 31 2014, 01:00PM
Trash it!
3
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
YEGFan wrote:

The cap has not hindered the Oilers this season.

Right now it is Bill Belichick's "during the season" and the Oilers have plenty of cap flexibility. They are free and clear to fill all the holes caused by injury and unforeseeable circumstances... Mission accomplished!

I keep getting conflicting interpretations regarding how much space the oil has.

The rookie bonus issue apparently leaves the oil with very little truly FREE cap space.

And thus MacT hasn't and isn't in line with belechiks strategy.

Avatar
#268 DisappointedFan
January 31 2014, 01:01PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers

@Joe Mamma

So we complain all year because we have no one who lays the body and then defend the decisions not to pay a guy who lays the body and plays the same level of Defense that other players on this team do.

Okay so don't compare a forward and defensemen, let's compare him to the current 5-6 defensemen or even 3-4 defensemen who don't lay the body, are complete pushovers in their own zone, and are the constant reason why we get man handled in every board play in our own zone. Maybe you can show a few Oilers D-men (exception Marincin) who are actually meeting expectations at something.

If the only reason is bang for you buck on, I think you're forgetting just how bad Oilers management is a paying players their worth (Sam Gagner).

Avatar
#269 Johnnydapunk
January 31 2014, 01:40PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
michael wrote:

Hemsky's 5 million looks great next season off the books. Add Eager,N.Shultz(3.75),Smyth at 2.25(I think he is resigned at 1.5).Grebby,Belov,Potter,Larsen(1.1)and whole whack of other guys.We'll save on the goaltending.DD was 3.75. think you can sign Scrivens and one other goalie for a lot less than that.I see Gagner being shown his hat at the draft.There goes 4+million.

My point is that cap space even with having to sign RFA's will be plentiful.Hemsky's return if its a 3rd is fine by me.Its better than nothing.

Eakins quote "Fraser adds a growl back there"

I'm 50/50 on some of your points, but 2 goalies for under 3.75mill ? I think the Oil currently have the lowest payroll for goalies as of now, Scrivens is even having part of his contract paid by the Leafs, but for a proper number one and backup, you are looking at minimum 6 mill, realistically I would think 7 mill.

As for the RFA hunt, it depends on what year the compensation draft picks are for, as the Oil don't have any picks in the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round for 2014 and compensation for signing an RFA is usually one of those, so depending on the year those compensatory picks are for, would determine if the Oil can make any RFA offers.

Avatar
#270 Lochenzo
January 31 2014, 01:41PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
Serious Gord wrote:

Whether buying out hemsky would have helped is unknowable. Having lots of room early in the season could have gotten the oil a good piece from the flyers early in the season when they were really struggling, but who knows? It's impossible to prove either way. It's whether the strategy is sound that is the question. I think it is.

And then what, sign David Clarkson to an $8 million dollar contract for 7 years, and then wish we still had a compliance buyout to get rid of him this summer.

Val Filppula you could make the argument for signing. But Val had a limited resume in terms of being a high level player, so the signing wasn't without risk.

Avatar
#271 DisappointedFan
January 31 2014, 01:59PM
Trash it!
9
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
Joe Mamma wrote:

Where did the Oilers finish in the standings with Fistric in the lineup? What were Fistric's stats last year (Points, +/-, Corsi, Fenwick, etc.)? He was an inneffective 6-7 defensemen or worse, and other than a couple of memorable hits, did little or nothing to improve this team. In fact his penchant for selfish play hurt them more than helped most nights. I'm not arguing the Oilers don't need toughness and grit on the back end, this is why I'm very happy with this trade. I am arguing that Fistric at 2mil per is frikken lunacy, and the right move was made. Anyone arguing otherwise has a man crush, should put down the crack pipe when it gets hot, or has the last name Fistric.

Sorry, but when someone references Corsi or Fenwick, you lose credibility in your argument entirely. Those are poor representatives of a players performance, and hardly tell how a guy is playing especially defensemen (who on Edmonton never look good in Corsi). But since we're on the topic, he had a +6 rating in Edmonton and +8 rating in Anaheim. Since we're looking at "helping the team" he had 6 assists and was +6 for the Oilers while Nick Schultz was -13 and had 1g 8a. So if you want to go by your "effectiveness" rating scale, Mark Fistric looks a lot better than Nick Schultz does.

Sorry but your feelings towards his "selfish play" can be said about most players, let's look at all the times Justin Schultz pinches or moves up to the slot for a shot putting himself far out of position blows it and the other team goes down and scores or gets a break away, he does it every game. Or Jeff Petrys soft play on the puck EVERY game where he gives it away in our own zone, or because he doesn't stand in position or cover guys in front of his net. Or we could talk about Potter deflecting every shot into our own net. Or we could talk about how a rookie prospect is the best looking defender on the team who wasn't even supposed to play on the Oilers this year.

Reducing your argument to petty attempts at telling me to "put down the crack pipe" or "man crush" prove just how little strengthen your argument is.

Avatar
#272 DisappointedFan
January 31 2014, 02:28PM
Trash it!
6
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers

@Zarny

They also state that those are loose numbers they use for reference but hardly tell the story. Are you the same person preaching Hall is on the down slide? Just laughable. Corsi and Fenwick on defense are terrible measures of performance and fairly bad estimates on forwards. Plain and simple.

Another cheap shot attempt at saying I'm dumb, good to know you can find the facts and numbers to back up your claims at "hockey analytics".

I believe your entire comment is a "beautifully" written example of irony to the nth degree. Congratulations.

Avatar
#273 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
January 31 2014, 02:45PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
Zarny wrote:

Keep in mind the 2nd year of that expensive deal coincides with the 1st year of Yak's next contract.

As well, MacT is not going to get all of the pieces required by next season. He's going to be looking for more pieces in 2015-2016.

I agree you can't have blinders on looking for perfection but Campbell's cap hit could be a serious hindrance to adding other required players give he's not the ideal D the Oilers need.

You're right that managing a roster in the cap era is more like completing a Rubix Cube than it is a two dimensional board game. At the two dimensional level, I was thinking that all the expiring contracts we have which is about ten I think, and the increase in the Cap for next year would accommodate a couple of $7 mil contracts and Yak, but I could be wrong...really I haven't done the math.

Edit: just had a quick look...we actually have 16 contracts expiring at the of this season.

Avatar
#274 DisappointedFan
January 31 2014, 02:51PM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
Joe Mamma wrote:

Aww, you mad bro? Guess what buddy, I could care less what you think. If you think a guy with 0G 6A that spends half the season in the pressbox is worth 2mil a year, well let's all be thankful you're not running the team.

Nick Shultz was signed. Fistric was a UFA. What the hell does any of the drivel you just posted have to do with Fistric? You're arguments are a disjointed pile of circle reasoning, constantly degrading into blather on tripe that has little or nothing to do with the subject matter. Judging by the hearty helping of trashes and lack of props on your mundane arguments, I'm guessing I'm not in the minority.

Well I guess there's a reason neither of us is getting paid to manage the team.

It's a circular argument by the way, a circle argument is one about...well a circle.

So people don't agree with my statements, I didn't know this was about who can get the most popular replies? Is there some sort of prize for getting the most props?

Avatar
#275 DisappointedFan
January 31 2014, 03:19PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
Joe Mamma wrote:

What in the hell are you even talking about? OOOOkay, well this was fun. Let's never do it again, shall we.

Because you're fairly uncertain of common phrases used in every day conversation or because you don't know how the voting system on this site works?

Avatar
#276 toprightcorner
January 31 2014, 03:20PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers

@Joe Mamma

my bad Joe Mamma, I missed 1 comment out of 200, and I agree $2 mill was too much for Fistric if that is what he was asking for.

I wasn't aware that me missing one comment was so much worse than making up stats, to support your case when the actual stats disproves your point.

I guess I will try to be more like you and make stuff up to prove my point.

Avatar
#277 Will
January 31 2014, 03:37PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers

Hmmm, team is slowly getting big and tough. Anyone think Steve Downie could play top six minutes on the wing? Maybe then trade one of the wonder kids for a top 2 D man?

Avatar
#278 2004Z06
January 31 2014, 03:47PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty) wrote:

Doing a quick add, it looks like you are correct Zarny. The numbers are tight.

In the last year of Campbell's contract, assuming we sign Yak to something like a two year bridge deal at $5 million a year, with our current roster minus Hemmer we will be spending approx $42 million on the forwards, $16 million on Defense, and $3 million on Goaltending. Total approx $61 million against a projected $70 mill cap.

Of course, this does not include paying for a #1 Goalie or a 1-2 Dman like Campbell

So is we add in $7 mil for Campbell and an additional $5 mil for Goaltending then subtract Gags $5 mil.....it all looks doable...we'd be in around $68 mil

But like I said, mine is a very simplistic 2 dimensional view of things.

Don't forget to remove the salary of the player(s) that will have to go to Florida to get Campbell. The cap will be 71 mil next year and at least 76 mil the following. There is lots of room.

Avatar
#279 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
January 31 2014, 04:03PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
me wrote:

NO...you are you to me.

Don't bring you into this.......you is on second!

Avatar
#280 Wow
January 31 2014, 04:10PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
me wrote:

I admitted I was a troll..but why does it actually bother you?...I do really think if u take ur posting serious u really are a loser...im getting paid while getting entertained by your reactions so it's even funnier to me...does this place give you the sense of belonging to part of a team u have nothing to do with?

Kinda.

Avatar
#281 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
January 31 2014, 04:28PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
Alsker wrote:

Actually, "what's" on second.

Shhh....me doesn't know that....keep it under your hat....wink wink nudge nudge.

Avatar
#282 toprightcorner
January 31 2014, 04:53PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
Joe Mamma wrote:

This is a super mature discussion. What are you, 12?

What did I make up? Show me where I made anything up. Quote it. What disproved my point that Fistric isn't worth 2 mil? YOU JUST AGREED WITH MY POINT! Good lord, is it Idiot Day on the nation?

Feel free to go climb back under the bridge, Troll.

I know I should just ignore you but I cant let you remain under the delusion that you didn't try to use stats to make your point when the actual stats contradict your argument.

you wrote "What were Fistric's stats last year (Points, +/-, Corsi, Fenwick, etc.)? He was an inneffective 6-7 defensemen or worse"

implying Fitric ranked terrible in these areas and thats why I corrected you in comment 198

Fistric ranked 2nd in +/- last year, lead defense in Corsi and in hits per game. He also led the team in blocked shots per minute played so Fenwick is irrelevant. In fact his stats show he was an effective bottom pairing defenseman.

You tried to use these stats to prove Fistric was ineffective where he played, when they actually show the opposite.

This, my friend, is called MAKING THINGS UP, as you call it. If you want to use stats to make your point at least respect the readers by looking them up first.

So, I admitted my oversight with Fistrics salary demands as soon as you pointed them out and even corrected that post as to not mislead others.

You then called me out when I said you made up stats to prove your point and wanted me to quote you, which I did above.

The question is are you going to be a man and admit it or are you going to run upstairs and cry to Joe Mamma.

What will you do?

Avatar
#283 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
January 31 2014, 05:21PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
Walter Sobchak wrote:

Not to point something obvious out as well, but Hartiakinen is 22 years old having a terrific season in the KHL playing a tone of minutes.

Should we completely give up on all 22 year old prospects by the logic "he was never going to part of the equation here" or is it not incumbent on this organization to see development through?

Cause I can give you a list as long as your arm about the "doesn't fit the equation" here of players the Oilers washed away with that same logic.

Not trying to be a prick here, but is this not a huge issue with this org?

All fair questions Wes. And I get that you're pointing out a pattern here. I'm just saying that so far the reaction while mixed seems to be considerably more positive than negative. I get your point that that doesn't make it right.

I liked Fistric, but I didn't know he demanded two million. Not sure what the market was for Smid but maybe his contract was viewed as prohibitive by some teams? Maybe Broissoit and Horak was market value? I mean really, what else makes sense? Dumping Abneys contract was clearly a plus. So for me that leaves Hartikainen.....and you're point about being 22 is a reasonable question...my guess is 1) they think they gave him a fair shot and he didn't make the cut, combined with he wouldn't accept a two way deal, combined with I'm sure they shopped him and like Linus Omark, their were few, in fact maybe only one taker. Do you have an alternative explanation that makes sense?

Edit: Agreed Wes. It is all good....it is why we're here.

Avatar
#284 OilDieHard
January 31 2014, 09:37PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
Naky wrote:

To all those saying that the Oilers gave up on Harti, allow me to ask why it is that you feel free to assume that the Oilers didn't have discussions with Teemu's agent and/or the player himself throughout the year to get a feel of his mindset of playing for the Oilers in the future? Perhaps he wanted to move on. If that's the case, the asset's gone sour and it's best to move him for a decent return before it goes public.

So in other words, stop assuming that the Oilers didn't do their best to convince him and consider that maybe it was the player himself that had no intentions of coming back. Until we know otherwise, it's just as valid a consideration as the opposite.

you should read the bickering and whining at Copper and Blue over this trade....it will make your head spin!!!

Avatar
#285 pkam
February 01 2014, 02:08PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
camdog wrote:

I'd take Brown over Fraser. Oilers traded a third rounder for Fistric. Not sure what you are saying about the organization that traded a third for a guy you state nobody would trade a 4th for?

How many minutes does Brown play per game? 5? The only reason he is iced is to stand up for his teammate and fight. Fraser will do the same and play the #6 D. But before Fraser even plays one game for us, you already like Brown more. What else can I say?

What I think about the trade for Fistric, never like the trade for Fistric and Smithson.

Avatar
#286 Still Hopeful
February 02 2014, 01:33PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
Hemmercules wrote:

I don't understand the MacT hate. The guy took on a last place team of smurfs 6 months ago from a passive GM. He added Ference, Gordon, Perron, Scrivens, Brysgalov, Belov, Hendricks and now Fraser. Tried to get Bernier, Schneider, Clarkson and probably others in trade attempts we never heard about. He shipped out some underachievers in Duby, Paajarvi and Smid.

The guy is active, more so than most GM's out there as far as I can see. Not all moves will be great, not all will work out, but the guy is trying.

I seems to me a lot of people think its as easy as calling up GM's and demanding they trade their great players to us for our junk. Not gonna happen.

I want playoffs next year as much as anyone but it likely wont happen that fast. Tambloweini's team will take time to correct and I think MacT has the potential to do it.

All Mac - T has done is trade 4 liners and nobody's for 4th liners or nobodies. You could put the 4th line of the Oilers on any NHL team and their record and standings would not change.

It is the first 3 lines and the top 4 D, that make the difference.

It is called ICE Time.

The reason no free agent will come here is because the Oilers have the worst management team and record to show for that in the league. The players know this, the agents (who know more inside information than the players) also know this. If I were an agent, would I give advice for any of my players to go to the worst team in the league over the past 14 years who have the same management or choose another team for the same salary.

People, use your heads. This is Lowe's team. He has been in charge of everything since he took over as GM and has been involved in every decision with the GM who he has hired since. The Oilers are going nowhere until Lowe, Mac-T, et. all are gone.

Avatar
#287 Lochenzo
January 31 2014, 11:42AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Wonder if Cody Franson's name ever came up in the MacT-Nonis discussion? Here's a guy that everybody thought would easily be a top 4 guy. But then he'd crap the bed just as you started to get excited about him.

Avatar
#288 Rama Lama
January 31 2014, 12:03PM
Trash it!
26
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Fresh Mess wrote:

I can't agree more or prop this enough. I am so sick of hearing about Fistric.

News flash people: HE DIDN'T WANT TO PLAY HERE.

Fistric is a marginal 6-7 dman, who badly priced himself out from playing here. He was willing to sign with a good team for half the money he demanded from Edmonton.

No he would have signed here but at the time we were obsessed with skill and he knew that.

Avatar
#289 Taylor Gang
January 31 2014, 12:18PM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Jonathan Willis wrote:

None of those guys are better than Campbell.

Especially not MacDonald.

I'm just saying there are other ways of upgrading the defense other than Campbell.

Avatar
#290 Serious Gord
January 31 2014, 01:14PM
Trash it!
3
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Ed in Edmonton wrote:

That is why players are bought out, i.e. they have zero value as a trade (other than a unique situation like Souray).

There is, however, an interesting point wrt to Hemsky. He might fetch more at the trading dealine that he would have last summer as his boat anchor contract is now almost done.

Nonetheles,s I don't see any good argument as to how not buying out Hemsky has hurt the Oil this year.

Whether buying out hemsky would have helped is unknowable. Having lots of room early in the season could have gotten the oil a good piece from the flyers early in the season when they were really struggling, but who knows? It's impossible to prove either way. It's whether the strategy is sound that is the question. I think it is.

Avatar
#291 Serious Gord
January 31 2014, 01:46PM
Trash it!
21
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
A-Mc wrote:

If it is unknown how it would have affected the team by buying out Hemsky, then by that same logic you can't possibly conclude that it was a bad move to NOT buy him out; so please drop it.

You've said your piece. We've all read it in many of your posts prior to the ones in this article. There is no reason to continually repeat yourself.

Flawed logic on your part. The strategic aspect of buying out hemsky should not be measured by the tangible tactical result.

Not having ample cap room during the season is a big - strategic - mistake.

Avatar
#292 Serious Gord
January 31 2014, 01:50PM
Trash it!
4
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Lochenzo wrote:

And then what, sign David Clarkson to an $8 million dollar contract for 7 years, and then wish we still had a compliance buyout to get rid of him this summer.

Val Filppula you could make the argument for signing. But Val had a limited resume in terms of being a high level player, so the signing wasn't without risk.

I have never said anything about clarkson.

Avatar
#293 DisappointedFan
January 31 2014, 02:53PM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@Joe Mamma

Just didn't want you going out there into the world thinking it was a circle argument or a "Pre-Madonna" (as opposed to the "Prima donna" which is correct) and looking uneducated to your friends.

Avatar
#294 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
January 31 2014, 03:04PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Zarny wrote:

Keep in mind the 2nd year of that expensive deal coincides with the 1st year of Yak's next contract.

As well, MacT is not going to get all of the pieces required by next season. He's going to be looking for more pieces in 2015-2016.

I agree you can't have blinders on looking for perfection but Campbell's cap hit could be a serious hindrance to adding other required players give he's not the ideal D the Oilers need.

Doing a quick add, it looks like you are correct Zarny. The numbers are tight.

In the last year of Campbell's contract, assuming we sign Yak to something like a two year bridge deal at $5 million a year, with our current roster minus Hemmer we will be spending approx $42 million on the forwards, $16 million on Defense, and $3 million on Goaltending. Total approx $61 million against a projected $70 mill cap.

Of course, this does not include paying for a #1 Goalie or a 1-2 Dman like Campbell

So is we add in $7 mil for Campbell and an additional $5 mil for Goaltending then subtract Gags $5 mil.....it all looks doable...we'd be in around $68 mil

But like I said, mine is a very simplistic 2 dimensional view of things.

Avatar
#295 DisappointedFan
January 31 2014, 03:39PM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@Joe Mamma

You also neglected clear information and evidence that made your "clear and concise" points incorrect. So I'm not sure how exactly you can get that as a take away from the discussion but sure, you're absolutely correct, can't fix stupid.

Sorry I didn't know my "ill-fated" attempts were perceived as being gibberish, I can send an English tutor your way so you can better understand and comprehend the language for future conversations.

Says the certified comedian by trade?

Avatar
#296 Wow
January 31 2014, 04:00PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
me wrote:

NO...you are you to me.

Uh-oh ... I'm gonna need a chart...

Avatar
#297 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
January 31 2014, 04:00PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
2004Z06 wrote:

Don't forget to remove the salary of the player(s) that will have to go to Florida to get Campbell. The cap will be 71 mil next year and at least 76 mil the following. There is lots of room.

I hope you're right because if you are then things look pretty good on the financial part of the equation.

Avatar
#298 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
January 31 2014, 04:01PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Wow wrote:

Uh-oh ... I'm gonna need a chart...

Ok ...that's allowed...as long as it's not CORSI or Fenwick.

Avatar
#299 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
January 31 2014, 04:22PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
me wrote:

I admitted I was a troll..but why does it actually bother you?...I do really think if u take ur posting serious u really are a loser...im getting paid while getting entertained by your reactions so it's even funnier to me...does this place give you the sense of belonging to part of a team u have nothing to do with?

Just curious me....what are you a part of?......and by me I mean me not me....uh..you know what I mean...

Avatar
#300 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
January 31 2014, 04:26PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@Zarny

Is the risk that bothers you the risk of the overspend bringing us up against the cap and thereby limiting our future options? Or, the risk of the player himself?

Comments are closed for this article.