ROCK BOTTOM: WAITING ON THE BOUNCE

Robin Brownlee
January 05 2014 03:19PM

When a team hits rock bottom in the standings like the Edmonton Oilers have twice since the NHL lockout of 2004-05, the silver lining for fans is the expectation short-term pain will result in long-term gain and that the team will eventually pick itself up off the floor.

After seven straight years out of the playoffs, soon to be eight, the Oilers, as everybody is acutely aware, have been selling that hope to the faithful folks who buy their tickets and jerseys for years now – the bounce off the bottom, a rise back to respectability and playoff contention.

If you look at teams that have hit the bottom of that elevator shaft in the eight seasons since the lockout – I'm leaving out the Florida Panthers, who finished 30th overall in 2012-13 because we don't know where they'll finish this season -- the expectation better times are ahead isn't unfounded.

Except for fans of the Oilers, of course, who've looked on as their team has gone from being Stanley Cup finalists in 2006 to finishing 2009-10 and 2011-12 dead-last, where they have pretty much stayed.

Where's the bounce?

LONG WAY DOWN

Here's a look at the teams that have finished 30th since the lockout and where they've finished in NHL overall standings in subsequent seasons.

2005-06: ST. LOUIS BLUES 21-46-15 for 57 points

  • 2006-07: 34-35-13 for 79 points – 22nd
  • 2007-08: 33-36-13 for 79 points – 27th
  • 2008-09: 41-31-10 for 92 points – 15th
  • 2009-10: 40-32-10 for 90 points – 15th
  • 2010-11: 38-33-11 for 87 points – 20th
  • 2011-12: 49-22-11 for 109 points – 3rd
  • 2012-13: 29-17-2 for 60 points – 6th

2006-07: PHILADELPHIA FLYERS 22-48-12 for 56 points

  • 2007-08: 42-29-11 for 95 points – 11th
  • 2008-09: 44-27-11 for 99 points – 9th
  • 2009-10: 41-35-6 for 88 points – 18th
  • 2010-11: 47-23-12 for 106 points – 3rd
  • 2011-12: 47-26-9 for 103 points – 6th
  • 2012-13: 23-22-3 for 49 points – 20th

2007-08: TAMPA BAY LIGHTNING 31-42-9 for 71 points

  • 2008-09: 24-40-18 for 66 points – 29th
  • 2009-10: 34-36-12 for 80 points – 25th
  • 2010-11: 46-25-11 for 103 points – 8th
  • 2011-12: 38-36-8 for 84 points – 21st
  • 2012-13: 18-26-4 for 40 points – 28th

2008-09: NEW YORK ISLANDERS 26-47-9 for 61 points

  • 2009-10: 34-37-11 for 79 points – 26th
  • 2010-11: 30-39-13 for 73 points – 27th
  • 2011-12: 34-37-11 for 79 points – 27th
  • 2012-13: 24-17-7 for 55 points – 16th

2009-10: EDMONTON OILERS 27-47-8 for 62 points

  • 2010-11: 25-45-12 for 62 points – 30th
  • 2011-12: 32-40-10 for 74 points – 29th
  • 2012-13: 19-22-7 for 45 points – 24th

2011-12: COLUMBUS BLUE JACKETS 29-46-7 for 65 points

  • 2012-13: 24-17-7 for 55 points – 17th

THIS ABOUT THAT . . .

Philadelphia's last-place finish was a blip on the radar as they enjoyed the biggest bounce in a season after finishing 30th when they improved by 39 points. St. Louis is next with a 24-point improvement. The Blues best season since finishing last is 109 points, an improvement of 52 points. Philly is next with a 50-point jump in 2010-11.

Coming into this season, the Flyers have made the playoffs in four of six seasons since finishing 30th. The Blues have made it in three of seven seasons. Even Tampa Bay and the Islanders, who have floundered almost as badly as the Oilers, have made the playoffs once each, and the Bolts are poised to get in again this season.

Listen to Robin Brownlee Wednesdays and Thursdays from 3 p.m. to 5 p.m. on the Jason Gregor Show on TEAM 1260.

Aceb4a1816f5fa09879a023b07d1a9b4
A sports writer since 1983, including stints at The Edmonton Journal and The Sun 1989-2007, I happily co-host the Jason Gregor Show on TSN 1260 twice a week and write when so inclined. Have the best damn lawn on the internet. Most important, I am Sam's dad. Follow me on Twitter at Robin_Brownlee. Or don't.
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#1 Josh Oiler
January 05 2014, 04:25PM
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PLAY BAD FOR EKBLAD

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#2 Josh Oiler
January 05 2014, 06:34PM
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PLAY BAD FOR EKBLAD

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#3 John Chambers
January 05 2014, 04:04PM
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Hey if you're not going to make it to the dance you may as well add another elite player.

The Sedins were drafted in 99 and yet didn't register their first 50 pt season until their draft +5 year. That would be next season for Hall, and the year after for Nuge.

This team is going to b very good at some point - they're amassing the talent. This season is a real test of our patience, but if we can trade Gagner and the pick fr help on defense an a 2nd line C who can check, they'll turn it around eventually.

At some point this is going to pay off and when it does we can look back at these days and roll our eyes.

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#4 DigDeepNBleedBlue
January 05 2014, 03:48PM
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Help is on the way – Lyric from a TSN opening song for an Oilers' game earlier this year.

Help would be nice. I think we may have to sacrifice virgins at this point. Always a sad day when virgins get sacrificed....

For the stats guys:

Drank three beer in the first period, two in the second and four in the third during the last game. I like to spread the scoring around...

On the sports deal:

No more missing the first ten minutes of an Oilers' game. Priceless! ....well, not priceless. Cost over a billion dollars.

In regards to the broadcasters talent level? Have Evanka Osmak cover everything. I could watch her read the phone book. Wow!

“All I got to do is just shoot it.” - Yakupov

With that “Boom Stick”? Yes.... and play defence, not give the puck away, finish your checks and keep the puck down low in the O-zone. One out of five is not bad, I guess. That said, he's been doing good things recently.

Disclaimer: DO NOT TRADE YAKUPOV!

Gagner needs to own that center ice in front of his own goalie. Needs to. But, he just can't.

Wobbly pop armchair time:

Trade Deadline Chips that require a respectable return: F Hemsky, Gagner D N. Schultz G Dubnyk

May have to eat some contract, but do what you need to. I'd prefer younger prospects 20 – 23 years old and not picks.

Trade Deadline Chips, the rest (get what you can, if anything): F Jones, Abney, Eager, MacIntyre D Potter, Grebeshkov, Larson G Backman

Draft picks, maybe take a chance on a middling prospect, etc.

TDCs if you can't get them under a reasonable contact for 14/15: F Smyth D Belov G Bryzgalov

Bryz? He's been good in net. Looks like he's on the verge of bat sh*t crazy, though.

Disclaimer: He's a goalie.....

Trade what you can and play the sh*t out of the youth the rest of the way. See what you got there. Use what picks you get in some of these deals as chips for trades in the off-season for established heavy vets.

Tough choice: dangle Eberle. But, only for a number one or one B defenceman. It's not just a need, it would be a game changer.

Coach is a rook. That's been on display so far this season. But, I think he warrants another year behind the bench. He's learning and I believe he can be that guy to bring this team into the playoffs.

And that's it. The sky's not falling. It's just a season that fell off the rails early. Very early. Maybe even more of a train wreck. But, the main pieces are in place.

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#5 Josh Oiler
January 05 2014, 06:53PM
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6 ring circus wrote:

Do you want my Oilers account number?

All I know is I will be 10k richer come May,I should've known better to renew this year, I will no longer buy tickets as long as Lowe and the old boys club are involved with the Oilers and I've been a season seat holder since 1999.

Yes I will take that Oilers Account Number

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#6 DigDeepNBleedBlue
January 05 2014, 03:59PM
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1983 and This Year wrote:

Is that you NewAgeSys?

Lol

That's what you got? Well, it is a very in-depth hockey perspective.

Thanks for sharing.

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#7 bulldog12
January 05 2014, 06:52PM
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Quit your whining and crying in your beer. The Oilers need what everyone else either has, wants or needs. If you already have the big Centremen,bigger bodies or the #1 dman the only reason you trade them is if you have cap issues. See Pronger and Perron. With the cap going up that's not going to happen anytime soon. The only way to build is thru the draft and every manager will tell you that. Now you want to trade a 24 year old Gagner and complain because they traded a young Cogliano. You don't think MacT knows this and tried all summer to acquire these types of players. Patience you idiots. Half you guys are either really stupid or just like complaining and reading each others dumb repetitive comments.

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#8 Gerald R. Ford
January 05 2014, 05:45PM
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@Serious Gord

He makes money. A LOT of it.

With respect, you, sir, have no clue, whatsoever, what it takes to run a corporation the size of the Oilers. If built-in fanbases were all it took to be successful, Steve Jobs would never have been fired from Apple in the 80s. Or John Scully in the 90s, for that matter.

Monopolies, contrary to the disparaging cries of Joe. Q. Public, do NOT succeed without talented human capital.

LaForge, is VERY good at what he does. If you think the fire MacT rally was a bust, I wish you good luck with the fire LaForge rally. Heh.

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#9 Mac962
January 05 2014, 04:05PM
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Oh - and GO OILERS GO ! i am still with you, why i have no idea but i am with ya. Most of us still are.

Just play hard all out - win or lose, i am happy with that for now.

Note: FOR NOW.

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#10 RexHolez
January 05 2014, 07:34PM
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RexHolez wrote:

Imitation is the best form of flattery, my life's goals are now fulfilled

If only Lowe drafted Cory Schneider instead of Rob Schremp, the oilers wouldnt be tied 3-3 right now. Taylor Hall will never make the olympic team because Kevin Lowe ruined him already.

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#11 Oilbaron
January 05 2014, 10:42PM
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Rotten Ron wrote:

2 guys in my section carried jerseys in tonight. Looks like theyve been getting them ready to go since goal#3

god what douchebags

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#12 Larry
January 05 2014, 03:31PM
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The Oilers are an absolute disaster. They drafted too many small forwards before any defencemen or centers. By the time there dmen develop to the point where they will make an impact all the kids will have moved on. They did it all backwards and they missed there opportunity. They will never be good.

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#13 Sandra
January 05 2014, 03:50PM
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@RobinBrownlee Your point is?

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#14 Cold Hard Truth
January 05 2014, 04:11PM
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@John Chambers

Are you on the Oilers payroll?

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#15 TayLordBalls
January 05 2014, 05:47PM
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Rock Bottom is trying to read this dribble about how the Oilers have peed in your cereal.

I can assure you this, MacT is doing all he can to find value players without emptying the cupboard.

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#16 Cold Hard Truth
January 05 2014, 04:11PM
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@John Chambers

Are you on the Oilers payroll?

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#17 RexHolez
January 05 2014, 07:42PM
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RexHolez wrote:

Remember that trade Kevin Lowe made to get rid of Eric Brewer???? Knuckle head move getting rid of such a solid d-man! Ban Lowe!

Remember when Kevin Lowe helped out the Christmas Bureau that one time? What a loser.

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#18 Gerald R. Ford
January 05 2014, 07:49PM
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@Serious Gord

Apple HAD a monopoly, and it was eroded. THAT'S the point. It takes the right person, with the right plan, at the right time to make a business successful. You don't rest on your laurels, and you don't just make money on a brand. If you're a successful businessman, you should know that there's no luck involved. It's hard work, preparation, and constant learning and adaptation. A legacy only gets you so far.

Gord, considering how much of your life you waste plaguing us and the Edmonton airwaves with your incessant, epic whining, I have a pretty good idea you're not running a Fortune 500 company. Or maybe you have a dim-witted lackey running it for you whilst you're gracing us with your insights?

Now, THAT would totally validate your theory, in which case, I humbly apologize! A pox upon me for a clumsy lout, sir.

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#19 Serious Gord
January 05 2014, 07:57PM
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Gerald R. Ford wrote:

Apple HAD a monopoly, and it was eroded. THAT'S the point. It takes the right person, with the right plan, at the right time to make a business successful. You don't rest on your laurels, and you don't just make money on a brand. If you're a successful businessman, you should know that there's no luck involved. It's hard work, preparation, and constant learning and adaptation. A legacy only gets you so far.

Gord, considering how much of your life you waste plaguing us and the Edmonton airwaves with your incessant, epic whining, I have a pretty good idea you're not running a Fortune 500 company. Or maybe you have a dim-witted lackey running it for you whilst you're gracing us with your insights?

Now, THAT would totally validate your theory, in which case, I humbly apologize! A pox upon me for a clumsy lout, sir.

And no, I don't work for a fortune five hundred company, but I do retail products for some of the largest insurance companies in the world and consult to them on marketing initiatives in western Canada and the country as a whole.

Oh!! And thanks for listening and reading!!

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#20 Serious Gord
January 05 2014, 05:01PM
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“She was alone and still, gazing out to sea; and when she felt his presence and the worship of his eyes her eyes turned to him in quiet sufferance of his gaze, without shame or wantonness. Long, long she suffered his gaze and then quietly withdrew her eyes from his and bent them towards the stream, gently stirring the water with her foot hither and thither. The first faint noise of gently moving water broke the silence, low and faint and whispering, faint as the bells of sleep; hither and thither, hither and thither; and a faint flame trembled on her cheek.

Excerpt From: Joyce, James. “A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man.” iBooks. This material may be protected by copyright.

Dude could write...

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#22 Serious Gord
January 05 2014, 07:54PM
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Gerald R. Ford wrote:

Apple HAD a monopoly, and it was eroded. THAT'S the point. It takes the right person, with the right plan, at the right time to make a business successful. You don't rest on your laurels, and you don't just make money on a brand. If you're a successful businessman, you should know that there's no luck involved. It's hard work, preparation, and constant learning and adaptation. A legacy only gets you so far.

Gord, considering how much of your life you waste plaguing us and the Edmonton airwaves with your incessant, epic whining, I have a pretty good idea you're not running a Fortune 500 company. Or maybe you have a dim-witted lackey running it for you whilst you're gracing us with your insights?

Now, THAT would totally validate your theory, in which case, I humbly apologize! A pox upon me for a clumsy lout, sir.

Apple has never had a monopoly in any of its endeavors. In the halcyon days of the personal computer they maybe got to 20%. The "I"s - pods, phones etc have never had much more than that.

Meanwhile Edmonton has the contractual monopoly for nhl level hockey in this region and the Katz group owns the only other pro hockey team in the area. Now that's a monopoly.

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#23 Serious Gord
January 05 2014, 08:32PM
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Gerald R. Ford wrote:

Apple dominated the academic and creative markets for years. If you were a teacher in the late 70s or throughout the 80s, you had an Apple computer. If you were a designer, you had an Apple computer.

If you don't buy that one, ever hear of Canada Post? How many years even BEFORE email and UPS did they run massive deficits?

I don't know what else to say, Gord. If you really think any random idiot can generate that much revenue simply based on having an allegedly captive audience, we are at an impasse, sir.

Apple's dominance of a small slice of the PC market was transitory. And they abused their clients and lost them even faster as a result.

Canada post is a crown corp and loses money for two reasons - unions and political imperatives like keeping to the door service in place. Its 'owner' was prepared to stroke a check to cover the losses rather than let the corp charge the real cost for postage. With the cpc in place that has finally begun to change. Also the monopoly it has - is far less powerful than it once was in no small part because of its marketing incompetence.

True monopolies are very rare particularly ones that aren't regulated. The oilers are one. It is telling when a monopoly gets broken - as it did in telecoms - or in a monopsony like the cwb and the sloth and incompetence is exposed. In fact outside of pro sports there are almost no such unregulated situations.

In sports an example would be the Yankees in the sixties when they lost their monopoly when the mets were created. In a very short time the mets became the bigger draw - so inept were the Yankee owners CBS. That all changed when a new owner group led by Steinbrenner bought the Yankees for 8.3 million.

One wonders what would happen if a second nhl team moved to EDM...

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#24 Brian
January 05 2014, 03:26PM
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GDP: Yzerman wants Stamkos ready for Olympics. So, Stamkos needs to skate and hone his passing and shooting skills. And he needs a safe environment where there is no danger of being hit or hurt. Stamkos plays tonight.

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#25 D-Unit
January 05 2014, 03:33PM
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Seems more like this is what is happening with the Oilers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6bo7sLCqd0&sns=em

Seems like there will never be a bounce.

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#26 outdoorzguy
January 05 2014, 04:11PM
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On a totally unrelated note, how many people knew the Rush season had started already? They won their opener on Dec 28th. No media coverage? No marketing? All I've heard is the GSP ad (in which you can't understand a word he says) for the home opener.

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#27 Cold Hard Truth
January 05 2014, 04:16PM
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The people who continue to buy season tickets year after year are the problem.

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#28 Rod from Viking
January 05 2014, 06:07PM
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6 ring circus wrote:

Do you want my Oilers account number?

All I know is I will be 10k richer come May,I should've known better to renew this year, I will no longer buy tickets as long as Lowe and the old boys club are involved with the Oilers and I've been a season seat holder since 1999.

What if they go on a 37-2-1 streak and make the play-offs and win the Cup? The chances are 1 in a million but I/m telling you there's a chance. I share my tickets and I am out for sure unless Katz gets to see lots of jerseys on the ice on National T.V. and decides to make a change at the top or a minimum of the assistant coaches get canned.( 1 in a billion)

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#29 Zamboni Driver
January 05 2014, 04:22PM
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@John Chambers

You know, other than the first rounders (who were all no-brainers...though Yak was probably a mistake in retrospect...anyway...)

The Oilers have been terrible drafters FOREVER.

Sather road on the coat-tails of accidentally getting Anderson and Kurri in the 2nd round (or whatever), so thought (and still thinks) he's just a little smarter than everyone else.

This 'braintrust' thinks the exact same thing. Based on 'knowing a little about winning', I guess.

Like the useless D-man they took first round a couple of years back (don't know his name, don't care) - Jesse Bustamakki - the might-have-been-dead Russian guy.

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#30 Kr55
January 05 2014, 03:26PM
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How many of these teams didn't change leadership (Lowe for us) within 3-4 years of a last place finish? Has there ever been a team to keep their top leader through 8 years of no playoffs? Without a doubt Lowe will become the new record holder of keeping a job through futility when the Oilers break Florida's 10 year playoff drought record.

Zero accountability at the top results in no accountability throughout the rest of our organization. The players know by now that the real problem is at the top and all the head coaches and puppet GM firings mean absolutely nothing to the big picture. The Oilers are trying to do something never done before, turn a franchise around from being at the absolute bottom of the barrel without a real change of leadership. It's not going to work.

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#31 vetinari
January 05 2014, 03:41PM
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Remember:

"This season was brought to you by the fine folks at Rexall Pharmacies.

And the number "30" and the letters "R" and "X"."

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#32 LoweBlows
January 05 2014, 03:44PM
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LOWE HAS GOT TO GO! He keeps drafting identical players! If it wasn't for his bff owning this sorry sack organization, he'd be out of a job! I can only pray to the hockey gods that KLowe isnt around next year to draft another forward we dont need!

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#33 MAC962
January 05 2014, 04:02PM
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Guess we get a post game day blog instead.

I have read 6 too many of the same kind of blogs. Of course what else is there to talk about. Same crap over and over and over.

Ice a nasty up just for the f--k of it. Mac - Abney - Gazdic , just to piss other teams off and beat the sheet out of a few teams just for the hell of it. The losses really dont matter anymore. Toss SMAC on the first line and park his big a$$ in front of the net, see what happens. Even on the PP. Who is going to move him ? no one.

Nothing to lose.

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#34 Zamboni Driver
January 05 2014, 04:12PM
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John Chambers wrote:

Hey if you're not going to make it to the dance you may as well add another elite player.

The Sedins were drafted in 99 and yet didn't register their first 50 pt season until their draft +5 year. That would be next season for Hall, and the year after for Nuge.

This team is going to b very good at some point - they're amassing the talent. This season is a real test of our patience, but if we can trade Gagner and the pick fr help on defense an a 2nd line C who can check, they'll turn it around eventually.

At some point this is going to pay off and when it does we can look back at these days and roll our eyes.

I bet you $1000 you said the exact same thing last year.

It's unacceptable, yet we keep guzzling the koolaid and shelling out thousands of dollars ever year.

At some point Einstein's oft-misquoted 'insanity' definition does come to mind.

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#35 Serious Gord
January 05 2014, 04:34PM
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In terms of what would be the best score for the oil tonight I would say 6-0 Tampa with the end being a stoppage of play for all of the jerseys and other oilers paraphernalia littering the ice.

That just might trigger a move by Katz.

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#36 RexHolez
January 05 2014, 07:54PM
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bulldog12 wrote:

So which one are you of the last sentence. Stupid, like complaining or reading the same dumb repetitive comments??

Well I'm the one that trashed your comment and I'm also the one that blames everything on Lowe right down to the type of sock tape Jeff Petry wears. So quit making douche bag statements and check your spelling.

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#37 RexHolez
January 05 2014, 07:59PM
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bulldog12 wrote:

So which one are you of the last sentence. Stupid, like complaining or reading the same dumb repetitive comments??

And I'm the original in all his glorious glory. Now go learn how to construct sentences

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#38 Gerald R. Ford
January 05 2014, 08:10PM
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@Serious Gord

Apple dominated the academic and creative markets for years. If you were a teacher in the late 70s or throughout the 80s, you had an Apple computer. If you were a designer, you had an Apple computer.

If you don't buy that one, ever hear of Canada Post? How many years even BEFORE email and UPS did they run massive deficits?

I don't know what else to say, Gord. If you really think any random idiot can generate that much revenue simply based on having an allegedly captive audience, we are at an impasse, sir.

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#39 6 ring circus
January 05 2014, 07:38PM
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There's a Kevin Lowe has to go page on Facebook ,it was started 2 hours ago and it has over 1200 likes,let's get this page to over 100,000 like's and see if the Oilers start paying attention.

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#40 2ndteir
January 05 2014, 07:39PM
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Cold Hard Truth wrote:

You know what amazes me? After all this miserable losing, not one Edmonton journalist/media member has the nerve to call out Kevin Lowe or Craig MacTavish (with the slight exception of Robin Brownlee).

Also, I just heard Stauffer say that MacTavish should not trade his 1st overall pick for help, and that it is on the team to perform. Really, Bob? What is MacTavish's job, then, if it is not to help the team?

Agree. But why are you listening to the game? Its on TV?

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#41 Bryzarro World
January 05 2014, 07:58PM
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Gerald R. Ford wrote:

Apple HAD a monopoly, and it was eroded. THAT'S the point. It takes the right person, with the right plan, at the right time to make a business successful. You don't rest on your laurels, and you don't just make money on a brand. If you're a successful businessman, you should know that there's no luck involved. It's hard work, preparation, and constant learning and adaptation. A legacy only gets you so far.

Gord, considering how much of your life you waste plaguing us and the Edmonton airwaves with your incessant, epic whining, I have a pretty good idea you're not running a Fortune 500 company. Or maybe you have a dim-witted lackey running it for you whilst you're gracing us with your insights?

Now, THAT would totally validate your theory, in which case, I humbly apologize! A pox upon me for a clumsy lout, sir.

You're out to lunch....

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#42 Gerald R. Ford
January 05 2014, 08:14PM
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Serious Gord wrote:

And no, I don't work for a fortune five hundred company, but I do retail products for some of the largest insurance companies in the world and consult to them on marketing initiatives in western Canada and the country as a whole.

Oh!! And thanks for listening and reading!!

Insurance?!!

Oh, well that changes everything.

Forget everything I said.

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#43 RexHolez
January 05 2014, 10:30PM
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bulldog12 wrote:

Obviously your your your you're you're you're one of the above as well. Except I bet YOU'RE the nerd that got picked on in school

haha, the old "you're the nerd that got picked on in school" jab. That's taking it way too far Bulldog! I'm sure yessir will never be the same! I can only imagine how much fatter you were than all the other 6th graders you beat up!

How is the sanitation department these days? keeping busy?

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#44 1983 and This Year
January 05 2014, 03:53PM
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@DigDeepNBleedBlue

Is that you NewAgeSys?

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#45 outdoorzguy
January 05 2014, 04:13PM
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Mac962 wrote:

Oh - and GO OILERS GO ! i am still with you, why i have no idea but i am with ya. Most of us still are.

Just play hard all out - win or lose, i am happy with that for now.

Note: FOR NOW.

And therein lies the biggest problem.

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#46 master of my domain
January 05 2014, 04:13PM
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I'm sure this is somehow still Horcoff's fault.

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#47 Serious Gord
January 05 2014, 04:26PM
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GDP - an east coast team means the oil have a chance 3-2 oil.

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#48 RexHolez
January 05 2014, 04:28PM
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The only reason I can think of to watch this game is to count how many jerseys hit the ice! Don't let me down oil fans

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#49 Quintana
January 05 2014, 04:30PM
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I would like to see a Jersey Ice Night again.........I hope Dubnyk is on tonight!!!

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#50 DigDeepNBleedBlue
January 05 2014, 04:47PM
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Serious Gord wrote:

The number of people who have actually read all of Ulysses versus those who tried to is 10000:1. That is likely better than your SOC post.

Two words: "me" and "blow". I would, however, suggest you change the order of them. lol

Just playin', brotha!

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