Nugent-Hopkins Non-Starter

Jonathan Willis
February 26 2014 08:39AM

93-RNH-16

I don’t really believe in untouchable players. If the right deal comes along, any player is moveable.

But it has to be the right deal, and I don’t think there’s one out there involving Ryan Nugent-Hopkins.

The Speculation

Craig MacTavish2

On Monday, Oilers Now host Bob Stauffer asked guest Jim Matheson if he’d be open to a trade that would send one of Ryan Nugent-Hopkins or Taylor Hall, plus Jeff Petry, plus the Oilers’ 2014 first round draft pick, to Nashville in exchange for Shea Weber.

Our own Robin Brownlee wrote his take here, saying he’d make that deal but preferably with Hall rather than Nugent-Hopkins. Matheson provided his own write-up a day later, one with a little more ambiguity, but seemed to indicate that he’d be willing to consider that deal too.

In Craig MacTavish’s shoes, I wouldn’t make that deal with Nugent-Hopkins. For that matter, I wouldn’t make any deal that involved sending Nugent-Hopkins away for a top defenceman.

Robbing Peter to Pay Paul

93-RNH-10

Trades should address areas of weakness from areas of strength. Failing that, they should address hard-to-fix areas of weakness from easier-to-fix areas of weakness.

That isn’t what’s being discussed in the speculation above. The proposed deal involves blowing a massive hole in the Oilers’ centre ice depth chart in exchange for patching the massive hole in their defensive depth chart. That isn’t progress; that’s trading one problem for another.

Actually, it’s even worse than that. At least on defence, the organization has some internal candidates. Darnell Nurse is a blue chip prospect. Martin Marincin’s been exceptional as a rookie. Oscar Klefbom and Martin Gernat and Dillon Simpson are all waiting in the wings. These guys are all some distance away and none may ever be the equal of Weber, but there’s room for growth here.

At centre? Who can replace Ryan Nugent-Hopkins? Sam Gagner’s not the answer, and with all due respect to Mark Arcobello and Anton Lander, neither of them is ever likely to even approximate what Ryan Nugent-Hopkins will be at the peak of his career. There’s nobody else in the system, and if that wasn’t enough the proposed deal would send away Edmonton’s 2014 first round pick, which would be the team’s only realistic place to find a replacement for Nugent-Hopkins. Maybe fans here are resigned to drafting Connor McDavid next year, but it’s not going to get any easier for the Oilers to put distance between themselves and the bottom of the league if they stay there another season.

Nugent-Hopkins is scoring at a 60-point pace in a power-vs.-power role at the age of 20; he’s already a first line pivot and he’s probably three-to-five years away from hitting his peak level of performance. The player he’s going to become is extremely difficult to find; the No. 1 centre tree is as non-existent as the No. 1 defenceman tree.

Deals!

64-Yakupov-5

There is no Ryan Nugent-Hopkins trade that makes sense for the Oilers that doesn’t include a first line centre coming back the other way.

Jordan Eberle or Nail Yakupov can be moved in the right deal because the Oilers have both of them. In a perfect world, they’re both kept, but it isn’t insanity to try and patch holes elsewhere from a strong right wing depth chart. There’s less of a case to trade Hall, who is the best forward on the team today, but left wing is less critical than centre or defence and Edmonton has the option of moving Yakupov over and some depth there in the person of David Perron.

What about that 2014 first round pick? Sure, that’s a possibility too. The Oilers will get a good young player if they draft there, and a team can never have enough good young players, but in the right deal trading a draft pick like that isn’t going to hurt Edmonton’s already paper thin NHL depth chart.

Recently by Jonathan Willis

74b7cedc5d8bfbe88cf071309e98d2c3
Jonathan Willis is a freelance writer. He currently works for Oilers Nation, the Edmonton Journal and Bleacher Report. He's co-written three books and worked for myriad websites, including Grantland, ESPN, The Score, and Hockey Prospectus. He was previously the founder and managing editor of Copper & Blue.
Avatar
#1 DT
February 26 2014, 08:52AM
Trash it!
5
trashes
Cheers
46
cheers

For the sake of argument, let's say they move Hall in that deal. Hall, Petry, and the first round pick is way too much for one player, even if it is Shea Weber. Lowe got Pronger for Brewer, Lynch, and Woywitka. That may be an under payment, but a similar deal could be worked out for Weber. But, including the first round pick from the upcoming draft, and a first overall pick from a few years ago, would be a vast over payment.

Avatar
#3 D
February 26 2014, 08:45AM
Trash it!
6
trashes
Cheers
41
cheers

I'd like to see a good chunk of the core retire as Oilers.

Avatar
#4 Bicepus Maximus - Huge fan boy!
February 26 2014, 09:26AM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
38
cheers

Trade the heart of the team (Hall) or our only first line center (Nuge, who's going to be one heck of a player) and one of our only two NHL calibre defensemen (Petry) and our first round pick (2nd overall) for Shea Weber?

If I was Jim, I would have kindly told Bob two things:
1. Shea Weber is a great player
2. Please put the pipe down and slowly back away from the microphone

Self-imposed cap on listening to Oilers Now: maximum of 5 minutes per day and no more than two days in a row. Anything more than that may cause mental damage.

Avatar
#5 Sliderule
February 26 2014, 09:06AM
Trash it!
5
trashes
Cheers
35
cheers

Shea Weber is a hell of a good defenceman who is minus10 on a better team than oilers. The proposal to trade our better players and a golden draft pick for him is just so stupid I can't believe those media guys would even debate it let alone agree with it. You become a better team by adding good players not by going sideways and creating big holes in the rest of lineup.

Avatar
#6 MKE
February 26 2014, 09:22AM
Trash it!
7
trashes
Cheers
35
cheers

I know Webber is a good dman, but it's not like he's won anything for Nashville. Even Webber and Suter together couldn't win anything for Nashville.

I might be in the minority here, but I wouldn't even give up Hall straight up for Webber, Because i think this team needs to ADD via the draft and free agents.

If you traded Hall, Petry and a top 5 pick...just for Webber...you create an even bigger hole the the one the Oilers already have.

With Nurse on the way, and the chance to get someone like Ekblad or Reinhart, no way would I make that deal.

It's like...would you rather have Kessel...or Segin, and Dougie Hamilton? I'd take the latter. All day long

Avatar
#8 Benny Botts
February 26 2014, 09:46AM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
27
cheers

Call me crazy, but Hall and RNH aren't going anywhere. Hall at the age of 21 or 22 is one of the best LW in the game and the potential is endless and RNH will be one of the best centres in the NHL in 3 or 4 years.

If its me and I am making a hard push for a top flight dman I am dangling our 1st and one of our RW's with a defensive prospect.

Avatar
#9 MKE
February 26 2014, 09:32AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
25
cheers

When Nashville can't win anything with Webber AND Suter, that makes it clear you have to have other elite pieces to win.

Getting rid of an elite piece(Hall), plus a top pick for another elite piece (Webber) just doesn't add up.

Avatar
#10 @Oilanderp
February 26 2014, 09:35AM
Trash it!
4
trashes
Cheers
25
cheers

Omark!

Avatar
#11 pkam
February 26 2014, 10:12AM
Trash it!
3
trashes
Cheers
17
cheers
Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things wrote:

I guess he's just a two-time olympic gold medalist, then. Totally worthless.

Are you seriously ignoring the fact that he puts up 40-50 points per year on a team that is starved for offense? What about the fact that he would instantly slot into the top line of 28 of the 29 teams not located in Tennessee?

Canada will probably wins 2 gold medals even without Shea Weber, PK probably will get the job done too.

But Shea Weber won't win even one gold medal if he is playing for Czech or Swiss. Didn't Slovakia have Chara?

Avatar
#12 MKE
February 26 2014, 09:56AM
Trash it!
5
trashes
Cheers
16
cheers
Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things wrote:

Can we please stop downplaying Shea Weber? He is better than everyone in the Oilers organization at the moment. He's better than everyone in most teams' organizations at the moment.

And yet Nashville still hasn't won a thing with him. Even if he is a great player you still don't over pay for him. Ever. Period.

Avatar
#13 TigerUnderGlass
February 26 2014, 11:32AM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
14
cheers
Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things wrote:

Let's apply this formula to a few other teams - all of whom are better than the Oilers:

Winnipeg Little, Enstrom, and a 1st? All day every day.

Phoenix Boedker, Z. Michalek, and a 1st? Yes please

Carolina Tlusty, Hainsey, and a 1st? Without hesitation.

I could keep going, but I think you'll find that most teams would do this.

Wait - did you just say:

Tlusty-Hainsey-#8 = Hall-Petry-#2?

What madness is this?

Avatar
#14 Time Travelling Sean
February 26 2014, 12:03PM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
14
cheers

I hate when people bring up trades that happened 30 years ago. Even without the cap it's a different league.

Avatar
#16 Virtual_Xi
February 26 2014, 11:40AM
Trash it!
6
trashes
Cheers
13
cheers
Oilerfan wrote:

A fair trade would be Bryzgalov (Nashville needs to bolster their goalie depth) + Petry (a solid No. 2 NHL Dman) + Sam Gagner (he'll flourish once out of Edmonton) for Weber and Legwand. I think the Oilers could win 4 or 5 Cups with the new lineup.

why oh why can I only trash once! tell me CWD truck!!!!

Avatar
#17 toprightcorner
February 26 2014, 03:02PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
13
cheers
Benny Botts wrote:

Call me crazy, but Hall and RNH aren't going anywhere. Hall at the age of 21 or 22 is one of the best LW in the game and the potential is endless and RNH will be one of the best centres in the NHL in 3 or 4 years.

If its me and I am making a hard push for a top flight dman I am dangling our 1st and one of our RW's with a defensive prospect.

I agree, Nuge is untouchable and Hall is a close second. Eberle is probably the best candidate to get us the best return without leaving a glaring hole in our line up. Yak is not Eberle but he definitly will have 1st line ability.

We also don't need one of the top 3 dmen in the league, I would be estatic to have someone that would be considered top 15-20 in the league and that person would cost half of what it would take to get Weber.

Eberle, Petry, 1st and an average prospect should get you 2 of McDonough, Giordano, Kronwall, Yandle, Josi, Carlson, Edler, Erhoff, Byfuglien, Tyutin, Jack Johnson, Beauchemin, Bieska, Myers, Voynov, Cowan, Bogosian, Hljarmasson, Methot, Gorges, Niskanen, Franson, Girardi, Martin or Hamonic to name what I could think of. I would rather have 2 of the above than one Weber and I beleive the team would be better as well.

Don't need home runs, just a few doubles!

Avatar
#18 MKE
February 26 2014, 10:15AM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
12
cheers

There was some dude named Wayne who played hockey here for some time. I recall he didn't win a thing when he didn't have elite players around him either.

Michael Jordan proved the same.

YOU NEED MORE THEN JUST SHEA WEBBER!!!!

Avatar
#19 Dawn
February 26 2014, 11:12AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
12
cheers

Who's brilliant idea was that to trade our #1 centre? Did they not see what happened at the beginning of the season when young Nuge was out and we had no NHL centres available to step in. Mad respect to Arcobello for surprising us all. But he's no Nuge.

Avatar
#20 Eulers
February 26 2014, 08:53AM
Trash it!
3
trashes
Cheers
11
cheers

Amen!

Avatar
#21 Taylor Gang
February 26 2014, 10:54AM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
11
cheers

I just don't see why it would take Hall/Nuge, the 2014 first rounder, AND a bit more! It's not like Hall and Nuge have no value. Even for Weber it's an overpayment.

Avatar
#23 derrickhands
February 26 2014, 08:53AM
Trash it!
28
trashes
Cheers
10
cheers

Dillon Simpson, doesn't have a good shot, doesn't play a physical game, and his skating is still well below par needed to make the NHL. How does this make him a good prospect D for the Oilers?

Avatar
#24 Cody anderson
February 26 2014, 09:40AM
Trash it!
4
trashes
Cheers
10
cheers

If the question was straight Nuge for Webber we do the deal every day of the week, but Nashville doesn't touch it.

If you are looking at a trade that Nashville would entertain then we should not touch it.

Any trade to get the best in the league when the team trading him is not being forced to trade him is going to be a huge overpay. I would guess it would take 2 elite players, a prospect and our 1st rounder. That would decimate our team. No way I touch a deal like this.

Avatar
#25 Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things
February 26 2014, 09:53AM
Trash it!
12
trashes
Cheers
10
cheers

Can we please stop downplaying Shea Weber? He is better than everyone in the Oilers organization at the moment. He's better than everyone in most teams' organizations at the moment.

Avatar
#26 MKE
February 26 2014, 10:00AM
Trash it!
4
trashes
Cheers
10
cheers

@Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things

NASHVILLE isn't an Olympic team :). I didn't say he was worthless. I said you never over pay for a player.

Avatar
#27 admiralmark
February 26 2014, 11:23AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
9
cheers

I have said this in arguments before of course usually involving a trade to get Weber. It seems there is a extreme focus on Weber as the target to fix this teams D issues. Why i ask?? There are 29 other teams in this league of which there are likely a solid 15-20 1st pairing D that are phenomenal at their position. Now after spending the last 7 craptastic years acquiring assets i.e. Yak, Hall, Nuge.... whats the point in trading for a fix only to open up a gaping problem some where else.

Mmmmmmmaybe if we had an actual 2nd line C i could see it somehow working out to improve the team. But Nuge is THE only 1st and 2nd line center this team has. Gagner is a joke at the 2C position. So good luck with Weber on the back end and Gagner as your 1C with Boyd as your 2C. Sounds like the same game plan as the Nashville Predators if you ask me?

Avatar
#28 pkam
February 26 2014, 11:48AM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
9
cheers
Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things wrote:

The Kings acquired Dionne for Dan Maloney and Terry Harper, along with a 2nd and a pile of cash. At the time, I think you'll find that a lot of people thought this was an overpay. Dionne went on to play more than half of his HHOF career with the Kings.

Sometimes you have to overpay to acquire top-end talent, and sometimes they cover the bet.

So Hall and RNH is not top-end talent? Hall or RNH may be Dionne in this trade. Perhaps the Preds should overpay to get one of them, like Weber + their 1st rounder for Hall/RNH?

Avatar
#29 george99
February 26 2014, 08:58AM
Trash it!
23
trashes
Cheers
8
cheers

Not so sure about robbing Peter to pay Paul. Granted RNH is a young phenom and our forward core would be less talented w/ out his services but boy when you consider who we would get in return. I know it's a pipe dream but seeing Shea Weber play in the Olympics reminded me instantly of how valuable Pronger was on our back end in '06. Completely and utterly controlled the play, calm the entire team down; and dicatated the pace and feel of each shift he was on the ice. I would miss RNH, or Hall for that matter but if Weber was the prize...I might do it.

Avatar
#30 pkam
February 26 2014, 10:58AM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
8
cheers
Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things wrote:

My comment on downplaying his effectiveness was originally directed at these comments:

#10 MKE

I know Webber is a good dman, but it's not like he's won anything for Nashville. Even Webber and Suter together couldn't win anything for Nashville.

#8 Sliderule

Shea Weber is a hell of a good defenceman who is minus10 on a better team than oilers.

Nowhere in my comments have I said anything about that trade being one that would benefit the Oilers. He is probably worth a top line player, a 2nd-pairing D-man, and a 1st rounder, though.

I don't get the feeling that they are downplaying Weber when I read those 2 comments. The message I get is Weber couldn't single handedly help us to be a playoff or cup contender. Giving up Hall/RNH and our 1st rounder for Weber will probably make us the Preds.

Agree that Weber worth a top 6 forward, a 2nd pairing d-man and a 1st rounder. But not a top 6 forward who was a 1st overall who is trending to be an elite franchise player, and that 1st rounder is a top 3 overall pick. That is an overpayment.

I will do it if it is Eberle/Perron + Petry + a mid to late 1st rounder.

Avatar
#31 Oilerfan
February 26 2014, 11:18AM
Trash it!
8
trashes
Cheers
8
cheers
Taylor Gang wrote:

I think that Messier was the single greatest captain that has ever played in this league.

Messier was the greatest human who ever put on skates.

Avatar
#32 Virtual_Xi
February 26 2014, 11:43AM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
8
cheers

what everyone seems to think is this is a fair deal. anyone who wants weber better pony up. On that note, it's a sad pipe dream, because you're not getting him without giving up one of Hall or RNH. And those are the two guys I would never give up on.

Avatar
#33 TigerUnderGlass
February 26 2014, 12:22PM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
8
cheers
Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things wrote:

The Kings acquired Dionne for Dan Maloney and Terry Harper, along with a 2nd and a pile of cash. At the time, I think you'll find that a lot of people thought this was an overpay. Dionne went on to play more than half of his HHOF career with the Kings.

Sometimes you have to overpay to acquire top-end talent, and sometimes they cover the bet.

1. "Overpay" still doesn't mean what you think it means. If you have overpaid then by definition you have paid too much. There are no means whereby an "overpay" can ever be the right move.

2. Re: Dionne: The Kings must have really dominated the league once they made that deal. If only there was some way to find out. Oh wait - In 74-75, the year before the trade, LA had 105 points. They next year with Dionne they had 85, and they never broke 100 again until 90-91.

The year before the trade Dionne had more points than all three guys he was traded for combined. In other words, it was probably only a slight overpay, and it still helped sink the team for a decade and a half.

This was a terrible example for you.

Avatar
#34 TigerUnderGlass
February 26 2014, 12:30PM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
8
cheers

Why is everyone assuming Edmonton has to give up one of their best players to get a top pairing defenseman?

When #1 defensemen move it is rarely for high end players, it is usually for packages of picks and prospects with 1 or 2 competent roster guys added.

So why suddenly do they need to give up one of their best players? It doesn't even make sense.

Avatar
#35 Oiler Al
February 26 2014, 09:12PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
8
cheers

Funny how Colorado turned their team around in a couple of years and have a chance to go deep into the playoffs.. They too are shallow on defense, but you dont see their organization, trading off all their top young forwards to acquiire Weber etc.

Its time Oilers stop chasing shinny beans, as its always their excuse as to why they cannot make the playoffs. Pittsburgh won two Stanely cups without a Weber on the back end.

Not saying they dont need to fix the defense, but it dosnt have to happen with the shinest bean on the plant.

Teams needs to learn to play defense on all 200 ft of ice by ALL players. Time for the Kids to grow up and play like men for a change, this is not longer junior hockey.

Avatar
#36 redhot1
February 26 2014, 08:53AM
Trash it!
4
trashes
Cheers
7
cheers

If you trade RNH, who would be the first line centre next year? Assuming Gagner is traded, that would be Gordon.

On the other hand, it would almost assuredly guarantee McDavid. But theres already pretty good chance for him based on the current trajectory.

I'm not jealous of Mac T

Avatar
#37 Will
February 26 2014, 09:40AM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
7
cheers

Why are there so many articles about trading for Shea Weber? It would be great to have a top end D man mentoring our young prospects, but moving out on of our two best players on forward does not make the team better.

Avatar
#38 TayLordBalls
February 26 2014, 09:53AM
Trash it!
17
trashes
Cheers
7
cheers

I wouldn't trade 2 Webbers for 1 Nuge.

Avatar
#39 MKE
February 26 2014, 10:04AM
Trash it!
4
trashes
Cheers
7
cheers

@Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things

Yes it would have.

Avatar
#40 GoCanadaGo
February 26 2014, 10:11AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
7
cheers
Bicepus Maximus - Huge fan boy! wrote:

Trade the heart of the team (Hall) or our only first line center (Nuge, who's going to be one heck of a player) and one of our only two NHL calibre defensemen (Petry) and our first round pick (2nd overall) for Shea Weber?

If I was Jim, I would have kindly told Bob two things:
1. Shea Weber is a great player
2. Please put the pipe down and slowly back away from the microphone

Self-imposed cap on listening to Oilers Now: maximum of 5 minutes per day and no more than two days in a row. Anything more than that may cause mental damage.

well said!

99.9% of sports talk radio is used to drive up water cooler talk among its listener base. Its ridiculous ideas like this that gets people talking. 630 and 1260 each have shows where "ideas" are floated around that sometimes snowball into rumours which the listeners sometimes think is the word of the bible.

its trade suggestions like this which makes oilers talk radio come off like a TMZ type gossip show. its bad. really really bad.

Avatar
#41 Joy S. Lee
February 26 2014, 10:28AM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
7
cheers

I'm with the others. Not a chance I'd deal away all of that talent for one guy, unless it were Doughty, Stamkos, or Price.

Perhaps a better question: What did Gretzky fetch, and how does that compare to what the media is now suggesting for Weber? Holy cow, is this Weber guy some kind of God? Around here, he sure sounds like it. Well, at least until he's been here for a month, then we'd be wondering what we could get back for him, because the team has so many new holes to fill.

We need a #1 D, I know. But we've been building organically for what seems like forever. We have good potential in the system. Is now the ideal time to sell the farm? If we wanted to do that, shouldn't we have done so at the beginning of this process, and not AFTER all of the pain?

Avatar
#42 MKE
February 26 2014, 10:54AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
7
cheers
Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things wrote:

Let's apply this formula to a few other teams - all of whom are better than the Oilers:

Winnipeg Little, Enstrom, and a 1st? All day every day.

Phoenix Boedker, Z. Michalek, and a 1st? Yes please

Carolina Tlusty, Hainsey, and a 1st? Without hesitation.

I could keep going, but I think you'll find that most teams would do this.

So why has no other GM done this if its such a good idea?

We are talking about Hall...who has a chance to be in the top 20 in scoring every year, and a potential top 3 pick!

That's much difference then Tlusty and a top 15 pick or Boedker and a top 20 pick!

Avatar
#43 Taylor Gang
February 26 2014, 10:56AM
Trash it!
5
trashes
Cheers
7
cheers
Will wrote:

This all day. I would also like to add that the team with the two top point getters last year were one of the worst teams in the league. One man does not a good team make.

And to the other point about Wayne, I try and bring this up all the time and get shot down. The man's numbers are off the charts. However, I think a lot of that was the team he was on. That Oilers dynasty was insane. The mark of a dominant player is that he'll be dominant anywhere. And Gretz never lead another team to the cup. Messier did, twice.

I think that Messier was the single greatest captain that has ever played in this league.

Avatar
#44 Ricky
February 26 2014, 11:09AM
Trash it!
12
trashes
Cheers
7
cheers

Don't worry there will be no trades for the Oilers. Fans and Management overestimate the value of any player ..Teams won't give much for Hemsky or Gagner or Schultz so no trades will happen. Oilers are a bad team with overrated players. If you don't believe me look at their record for the last 8 years.

Avatar
#45 Freud
February 26 2014, 11:32AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
7
cheers

All I know is this team better stop being so pathetic. They're worse than bad, and they better do somthing to figure it out. Enough is enough. Either turn this thing around or get new guys at the helm. No more waiting no more excuses

Avatar
#46 The Last Big Bear
February 26 2014, 04:07PM
Trash it!
3
trashes
Cheers
7
cheers
creep wrote:

http://www.ontheforecheck.com/2014/2/24/5444626/nashville-predators-trade-rumors-shea-weber-edmonton-oilers

I agree its not scheming, just an interesting read of how Preds fans see the rumour. Some seem to agree that having Weber with no forwards makes you....well it makes you Nashville.

As far as I can see, pretty much all the Nashville fans on there who were willing to make a deal agreed that it would take Hall AND Nugent-Hopkins AND assets such as 1sts/Eberle/etc.

Having Weber with no forwards makes you Nashville, but having forwards with no Weber makes you... well it makes you Edmonton. And nobody wants to be Edmonton, not even Edmonton.

Avatar
#47 MKE
February 26 2014, 09:46AM
Trash it!
1
trashes
Cheers
6
cheers

@Cody anderson

I agree with everything except you can't trade Nuge because that leaves you with no #1 center. It's a lateral move at best.

Avatar
#48 pkam
February 26 2014, 10:30AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
6
cheers
Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things wrote:

That's exactly the point I'm making. Downplaying a player's effectiveness because they haven't won a team award that involves 22 other moving pieces is laughable.

It's just as laughable as suggesting that a player has value because they're playing for a team that's going to win those awards with or without them.

We just don't think trading Hall/RNH + Petry + our 1st 2014 for Weber will benefit the team. And it is an overpayment for Weber, is this downplaying Weber? You honestly think he worth that much to acquire?

Avatar
#49 Taylor Gang
February 26 2014, 11:06AM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
6
cheers
pkam wrote:

I don't get the feeling that they are downplaying Weber when I read those 2 comments. The message I get is Weber couldn't single handedly help us to be a playoff or cup contender. Giving up Hall/RNH and our 1st rounder for Weber will probably make us the Preds.

Agree that Weber worth a top 6 forward, a 2nd pairing d-man and a 1st rounder. But not a top 6 forward who was a 1st overall who is trending to be an elite franchise player, and that 1st rounder is a top 3 overall pick. That is an overpayment.

I will do it if it is Eberle/Perron + Petry + a mid to late 1st rounder.

True. Picture another team trading away a budding superstar, a decent defenseman, and a top 3 pick in next years draft for Weber. You'd probably be yelling overpayment, which it would be.

Avatar
#50 pkam
February 26 2014, 12:17PM
Trash it!
2
trashes
Cheers
6
cheers
Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things wrote:

Dionne was a known quantity by the time he was traded to LA. In 1975 he was 3rd overall in points behind Bobby Orr and Phil Esposito, and he was top-15 in points for the 3 years prior.

You could probably make the case that Hall is a known quantity as far as scoring is concerned, but I don't think all 30 GMs would agree that RNH is a lock to be a top 10 player in the league from 2015 through 2026.

If they don't like RNH, they can have Hall.

My point is why is it always us overpay to acquire other team's top end talent? Can't we expect the other teams to overpay for our top end talents, or just a fair trade?

Comments are closed for this article.