Trading Sam Gagner to the Los Angeles Kings Would Likely be a Mistake

Jonathan Willis
February 05 2014 09:33PM

Everybody and their dog seems to want the Edmonton Oilers to move Sam Gagner for whatever the team can get and the sooner the better. That’s why comments by Hockey Night in Canada’s Elliotte Friedman suggesting the Los Angeles Kings had serious interest in Gagner have attracted significant attention in Edmonton.

Clifford & Nolan

Bob Stauffer of Oilers Now was asked on Wednesday’s show about the Gagner rumours. He said the return was “going to be a guy like a [Kyle] Clifford or a [Jordan] Nolan or a [Dwight] King,” and that “there’s going to be a financial component involved” in this scenario, hinting that the Oilers would be retaining salary in the deal.

Let’s look at those players. Among Kings forwards with more than 20 games played, Clifford ranks 12th in even-strength ice-time per game and Nolan ranks 13th. Neither of them kills penalties. Basically, they’re both big, young fourth-liners who contribute almost nothing beyond a physical game. The Oilers have some experience grabbing fourth-liner off high-end teams – guys like Colin Fraser and Ben Eager. Those guys looked great in Chicago, and looked terrible in Edmonton.

Would Clifford or Nolan be an upgrade on, say, Jesse Joensuu? Absolutely. Are they going to play top-nine minutes? Probably not. Nolan couldn’t score in the AHL, and Clifford had 28 points in the OHL in his draft year. They’re fourth-line guys.

If Luke Gazdic and Jesse Joensuu and Teemu Hartikainen and Lennart Petrell and Ben Eager and all the rest of the big forwards the Oilers have run through their fourth line show anything, it’s that adding a big, physical guy to the bottom of the roster doesn’t do anything to fix the problems in the top-six. So trading a guy like Gagner, who has problems but is a proven NHL scorer, for a younger version of Ben Eager or a better version of Luke Gazdic is kind of a stupid thing to do.

Dwight King

Dwight King is a better player, but he’s also a guy who had 17 points in 28 AHL games last year and had 33 in 79 AHL games two seasons ago. He has 23 points this season, playing primarily with Anze Kopitar and Jeff Carter. He’s a big (6’4”, 230 pounds), young (he turns 25 this summer) left wing that can play top-nine minutes and kill penalties and add a physical presence. If the Oilers are moving Gagner for a forward, that’s the guy who the Kings might be willing to move and who is in the same value-range.

Now, the problems. If Gagner goes, that means Edmonton is relying on a Mark Arcobello or Anton Lander to play centre on the second line. As a guy who likes both players, I’d enjoy watching that but as an NHL G.M. I wouldn’t be at all comfortable with it. Maybe Gagner needs to be replaced anyway, but moving him for King means that Edmonton now has a second-line centre slot to fill. Is it easier to add a guy like King in free agency, or a guy like Gagner? If the Oilers need a big guy who can be plugged in on the second line, they can sign a Nikolai Kulemin or David Moss in the summer. There simply aren't second-line centres available, unless they can somehow talk Paul Stastny into moving to Edmonton. 

The second problem is salary. Sam Gagner has this season and two more with a $4.8 million cap hit. King has this season and one more at $750,000. So Edmonton would need to take another contract back, and probably need to eat half of Gagner’s contract. Yes, the salary cap is going up but this is also an Oilers team that needs to add significantly on defence and on the third line; spending $2.4 million for the next two seasons so that L.A. can have a cheap Gagner seems misguided.

I like King a lot, and he’s a nice fit for Edmonton. He’s just not a nice enough fit to justify dumping Gagner and retain half his salary in the process. Toss Jake Muzzin or Tyler Toffoli in, and there might be something to think about – but it’s not likely that the Kings are going to do that. 

Recently by Jonathan Willis

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Jonathan Willis is a freelance writer. He currently works for Oilers Nation, the Edmonton Journal and Bleacher Report. He's co-written three books and worked for myriad websites, including Grantland, ESPN, The Score, and Hockey Prospectus. He was previously the founder and managing editor of Copper & Blue.
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#151 Lochenzo
February 06 2014, 01:08PM
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This Gagner trade rumour story is on TSN again. I'm getting real worried that the Oilers are going to get pummeled in this trade.

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#152 2004Z06
February 06 2014, 01:16PM
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Serious Gord wrote:

get back to me in a year or so when the oil is payinghim 1.85 mill to play in the AHL.

Why you think this guys salary is an issue is beyond me? In 2 years it will be the league minimum the way the cap is rising.

Besides, he will be traded for a pick if need be.

The Oilers have much bigger issues to deal with than how to fit Hendricks under their cap.

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#153 tabs
February 06 2014, 01:22PM
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Zarny wrote:

Good grief, drivel about "addition by subtraction".

Sorry but when you take a guy who has averaged 50 pts over 82 games and was on pace for 65 pts last year before ever hitting his prime off a team you are adding nothing.

Merely suggesting it is beyond stupid.

Give it a rest Z

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#154 Truth
February 06 2014, 01:25PM
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Ryan14 wrote:

Gagner isn't the player that the Oilers and media want him to be or think he is.

His best season (2011-12) had him 43rd amongst centers in points with 47, tied with Tyler Bozak (the same Tyler Bozak that is considered by many to be grossly overpaid at 4.2), Frans Nielsen and Kyle Wellwood. Kyle Brodziak and Derek Roy were three points back of Gagner.

Gagner is a slightly above average point producer, below average face off man and has below average defensive ability.

If he was putting up 55, 65 points, then you could argue that he is worth more. As it stands now, with his current (and career) production levels, his inability to play anywhere that is not in the offensive zone, and poor face-off ability, the value for him is not that high. Add in his near $5 million cap hit and his inability to remain consistent at any degree, and his value diminishes even more.

He is what he is.

Gagner was 37th in points in all of the NHL last year. 18th among centers. On pace for 65 pts.

What he is not is the player he was for a month while recovering from a broken jaw that he received in the pre-season.

If he averaged out as a 50-60 point center in the NHL he is a second line center on most teams in the league.

But might as well give him up for Zach Stortini 2.0.

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#155 GriffCity
February 06 2014, 01:27PM
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Gagner to CBJ for Nikita Nikitin is the song im singing. Columbus already has a very decent 1 & 2 d-men in Johnson and Murray (who thus far has way outplayed Yak) so Nikitin would be a movable piece of the deal was right. CBJ is in the playoff hunt and looking to add scoring depth since they are almost certainly going to try and dump Gaborik at or before the deadline. This is the move the Oilers should look at doing.

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#156 mike
February 06 2014, 01:28PM
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[quote]Gagner was 37th in points in all of the NHL last year. 18th among centers. On pace for 65 pts.[/quote] What did the centers one or two places above him and below him earn? And what was their draw % and plus minus? Arcobello was every bit as good as Gagner at a fraction of the cost, but we really need a more physical / defensive center given the make up of our top 6. It hurts to realize a top pick the Oilers made has minimal value to other teams, but thanks to his contract (which overpays him given his flaws), that's the reality.

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#157 Zarny
February 06 2014, 01:31PM
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Mike wrote:

"Good grief, drivel about "addition by subtraction".

Sorry but when you take a guy who has averaged 50 pts over 82 games and was on pace for 65 pts last year before ever hitting his prime off a team you are adding nothing."

How many points did he give away during this period? How many draws did he lose? He is a small body on a team full of small bodies, we need a large or physical 2nd line center.

Between some big bodies on LA he "might" be OK (albeit an expensive OK, not one I would give up a decent asset for), but on the Oilers he is a very poor fit. We were just as good with Arcobello but had $4 to $5million more cap space.

I've maintained for years Gagner isn't the right fit for the Oilers because he doesn't compliment Nuge well. He's basically the same small, skilled C but not as good.

The suggestions however that Gagner has "negative value" or no value is beyond delusional. It's evidence of how some have completely lost touch with reality and all perspective.

As an undersized C who shouldn't have played in the NHL till he was 20, Gagner's pt/gm average is 50 pt over 82 games. Last year he was on pace for 65 pt and that's all before he played a single game in his prime.

It's unfortunate Gagner had his face caved in to start the year. He's certainly not having his best year with the missed time and injury. Sort of like Getzlaf didn't have his best year in 2011-12 when he only got 57 pt. It happens.

The reality is even the best teams only have 4 or 5 players who top 45 pts in a season and Gagner is in that class with his entire prime ahead of him.

"Negative" or no value is beyond ridiculous I'm afraid.

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#158 Serious Gord
February 06 2014, 01:37PM
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2004Z06 wrote:

Why you think this guys salary is an issue is beyond me? In 2 years it will be the league minimum the way the cap is rising.

Besides, he will be traded for a pick if need be.

The Oilers have much bigger issues to deal with than how to fit Hendricks under their cap.

obviously there are bigger issues.

However Hendricks is an overpay. And every dollar off of the cap hurts as does the loss of a roster spot.

Cap inflation is not a sure thing given exchange rates and the continued softness of the US economy.

And Nashville couldn't unload him on any other team, what makes you think a year from now when he's in the AHL anyone is going to give up a pick for him?

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#159 Zarny
February 06 2014, 01:37PM
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mike wrote:

[quote]Gagner was 37th in points in all of the NHL last year. 18th among centers. On pace for 65 pts.[/quote] What did the centers one or two places above him and below him earn? And what was their draw % and plus minus? Arcobello was every bit as good as Gagner at a fraction of the cost, but we really need a more physical / defensive center given the make up of our top 6. It hurts to realize a top pick the Oilers made has minimal value to other teams, but thanks to his contract (which overpays him given his flaws), that's the reality.

The C who finished directly ahead of Gagner last year was Joe Thornton...he earned $7 million.

The C who finished directly below Gagner last year was Logan Couture who earned $2.85 million but resigned for $6 million starting next season.

Arcobello was every bit as good as an injured Gagner coming back too early from a broken jaw, missed training camp and sucking food threw a straw for 3-4 weeks.

Yes, I'm sure dropping 10-15 lbs on a liquid diet did wonders for a small F like Gagner who already struggles against big C like Getzlaf and Toews.

Absolutely no explanation whatsoever why he wouldn't be having a career year. Totally baffling.

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#160 Spydyr
February 06 2014, 01:50PM
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Truth wrote:

Gagner was 37th in points in all of the NHL last year. 18th among centers. On pace for 65 pts.

What he is not is the player he was for a month while recovering from a broken jaw that he received in the pre-season.

If he averaged out as a 50-60 point center in the NHL he is a second line center on most teams in the league.

But might as well give him up for Zach Stortini 2.0.

I don't care how many points he scores. He is a career -58. Yes, plus-minus is not the best stat, but when you are minus year after year it shows something.

Getting a player back that scores less, but is constantly a plus player helps the team more.

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#161 Serious Gord
February 06 2014, 01:52PM
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Zarny wrote:

I've maintained for years Gagner isn't the right fit for the Oilers because he doesn't compliment Nuge well. He's basically the same small, skilled C but not as good.

The suggestions however that Gagner has "negative value" or no value is beyond delusional. It's evidence of how some have completely lost touch with reality and all perspective.

As an undersized C who shouldn't have played in the NHL till he was 20, Gagner's pt/gm average is 50 pt over 82 games. Last year he was on pace for 65 pt and that's all before he played a single game in his prime.

It's unfortunate Gagner had his face caved in to start the year. He's certainly not having his best year with the missed time and injury. Sort of like Getzlaf didn't have his best year in 2011-12 when he only got 57 pt. It happens.

The reality is even the best teams only have 4 or 5 players who top 45 pts in a season and Gagner is in that class with his entire prime ahead of him.

"Negative" or no value is beyond ridiculous I'm afraid.

Negative Value is not a difficult concept. If they are delivering less than they are getting paid - they have negative value.

Could the oil - if they had the 5 mill and the roster spot - find a better player than gagner? Given time - absolutely.

Comparing Getzlaf to Gagner via just points is ridiculous and does little to enlighten the discussion.

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#162 Serious Gord
February 06 2014, 01:53PM
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Zarny wrote:

The C who finished directly ahead of Gagner last year was Joe Thornton...he earned $7 million.

The C who finished directly below Gagner last year was Logan Couture who earned $2.85 million but resigned for $6 million starting next season.

Arcobello was every bit as good as an injured Gagner coming back too early from a broken jaw, missed training camp and sucking food threw a straw for 3-4 weeks.

Yes, I'm sure dropping 10-15 lbs on a liquid diet did wonders for a small F like Gagner who already struggles against big C like Getzlaf and Toews.

Absolutely no explanation whatsoever why he wouldn't be having a career year. Totally baffling.

Thornton and Couture are vastly better players than Gagner and are worth every penny. Again just looking at points is silly. By that metric Bob Gainey wouldn't be in the HOF.

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#163 pkam
February 06 2014, 01:55PM
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Spydyr wrote:

I don't care how many points he scores. He is a career -58. Yes, plus-minus is not the best stat, but when you are minus year after year it shows something.

Getting a player back that scores less, but is constantly a plus player helps the team more.

The only 2 Oilers forwards who are + this year are Ryan Jones and Ben Eager, the next is Acton at -1. One thing for sure, they score less. I didn't know you like these 3 players so much.

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#164 Serious Gord
February 06 2014, 01:56PM
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Truth wrote:

Gagner was 37th in points in all of the NHL last year. 18th among centers. On pace for 65 pts.

What he is not is the player he was for a month while recovering from a broken jaw that he received in the pre-season.

If he averaged out as a 50-60 point center in the NHL he is a second line center on most teams in the league.

But might as well give him up for Zach Stortini 2.0.

Please tell us which teams in the league would have Gagner as a 2C? I would guess that pretty much every team that is in the top 16 wouldn't which means that fewer than half would - IOW not "most".

And of course one needs to factor in his price tag...

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#165 David S
February 06 2014, 01:59PM
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Wonger wrote:

King for Gagner would be the best thing that ever happened to the Oilers!!! King- Nuge- Hall first line/ Simmonds- ????-Perron second line!!! Wooooo!

^ THIS is why we can't have nice things.

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#166 David S
February 06 2014, 02:02PM
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Serious Gord wrote:

Negative Value is not a difficult concept. If they are delivering less than they are getting paid - they have negative value.

Could the oil - if they had the 5 mill and the roster spot - find a better player than gagner? Given time - absolutely.

Comparing Getzlaf to Gagner via just points is ridiculous and does little to enlighten the discussion.

So by that logic MacT should have dumped RNH when he was recovering from his shoulder injury - because he wasn't performing up to his contract. Nevermind the whole "coming back from surgery/needs time to get back to 100%" crap, right?

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#167 Serious Gord
February 06 2014, 02:04PM
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Spydyr wrote:

I don't care how many points he scores. He is a career -58. Yes, plus-minus is not the best stat, but when you are minus year after year it shows something.

Getting a player back that scores less, but is constantly a plus player helps the team more.

On an epically and consistently bad team like EDM plus minus is an irrelevant stat. Hell, Bobby Orr would have a hard time being a plus player on this team.

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#168 Cowbell_Feva
February 06 2014, 02:06PM
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This could be a classic case of an Oiler going elsewhere and becoming grabbing a Cup ring. Gagner could be one of the best producing 2nd line centers in the league if the Kings play him with some of their big dogs. It's something he doesn't have here in Edmonton.

Saying that, his numbers are what they are, and his faceoffs and defensive ineptitudes are very real, so to my mind, no matter what, the Oilers may lose the trade due to the fact that he is almost guaranteed to do better in LA.

However, gaining a big body (I would hope for Toffoli or King) that could play top 6 in Edmonton would very quickly change the whole dynamic of the Oilers forwards. No more would opposition defenseman have the luxury of easily pushing the small kids around and not have a net presence, outside the 4th line. Intangibles that win hockey games.

Definetly not a solution to the defensive issues, but a good start in my opinion. P.S. Kyle Clifford was a guy I wish the Oilers would have pursued a lot harder as a Free Agent this past summer. He signed for just over $1 mill/per. To trade Gagner for him just doesn't make sense, when you could have had him for as little as he signed for in L.A.

Hope MacT knows what he's doing.

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#169 Spydyr
February 06 2014, 02:11PM
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Serious Gord wrote:

On an epically and consistently bad team like EDM plus minus is an irrelevant stat. Hell, Bobby Orr would have a hard time being a plus player on this team.

Funny Hall is a career -12.That is a long ways form Gagners -58

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#170 Serious Gord
February 06 2014, 02:12PM
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David S wrote:

So by that logic MacT should have dumped RNH when he was recovering from his shoulder injury - because he wasn't performing up to his contract. Nevermind the whole "coming back from surgery/needs time to get back to 100%" crap, right?

Even a healthy Gagner has negative value. I wanted him traded not signed. I was right. MAct and presumably you, were wrong.

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#171 Serious Gord
February 06 2014, 02:16PM
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Spydyr wrote:

Funny Hall is a career -12.That is a long ways form Gagners -58

This is the first you have mentioned a negative player being considered good - "Getting a player back that scores less, but is constantly a plus player helps the team more."

Yes, relative plus minus ON THE SAME team is relevant and worthy of comparison. Between teams the usefulness as a comparative stat is far less and in many cases misleading rather than informative.

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#172 Serious Gord
February 06 2014, 02:18PM
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Cowbell_Feva wrote:

This could be a classic case of an Oiler going elsewhere and becoming grabbing a Cup ring. Gagner could be one of the best producing 2nd line centers in the league if the Kings play him with some of their big dogs. It's something he doesn't have here in Edmonton.

Saying that, his numbers are what they are, and his faceoffs and defensive ineptitudes are very real, so to my mind, no matter what, the Oilers may lose the trade due to the fact that he is almost guaranteed to do better in LA.

However, gaining a big body (I would hope for Toffoli or King) that could play top 6 in Edmonton would very quickly change the whole dynamic of the Oilers forwards. No more would opposition defenseman have the luxury of easily pushing the small kids around and not have a net presence, outside the 4th line. Intangibles that win hockey games.

Definetly not a solution to the defensive issues, but a good start in my opinion. P.S. Kyle Clifford was a guy I wish the Oilers would have pursued a lot harder as a Free Agent this past summer. He signed for just over $1 mill/per. To trade Gagner for him just doesn't make sense, when you could have had him for as little as he signed for in L.A.

Hope MacT knows what he's doing.

Well put.

Unfortunately I don't think MacT has a clue. Certainly the evidence thus far is strongly in my favour.

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#173 Zarny
February 06 2014, 02:22PM
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Serious Gord wrote:

Negative Value is not a difficult concept. If they are delivering less than they are getting paid - they have negative value.

Could the oil - if they had the 5 mill and the roster spot - find a better player than gagner? Given time - absolutely.

Comparing Getzlaf to Gagner via just points is ridiculous and does little to enlighten the discussion.

I wasn't trying to compare or suggest Gagner and Getzlaf were similar players or had similar value.

Simply pointing out that players have up years and down years. 2 years ago Getzlaf only had 57 pt in 82 games. This year he's sitting at 64 pt in 55 games.

Was Getzlaf worthless or did he have "negative value" 2 years ago? No.

And sorry but I don't agree with your definition of "negative value". I think that concept is actually quite silly.

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#174 Stamsky Hemkos
February 06 2014, 02:23PM
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I'm sick of hearing these lopsided rumors. Frodo is having a poor year but is normally a top 6 forward. Trading him for a 4th line winger is the kind of move that will set this franchise back even further. MacT won't do anything that foolish. Lombardi has already fleeced us too many times.

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#175 geeker99
February 06 2014, 02:23PM
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I still don't feel like you will get a proper evaluation on many players till meaningful hockey is played. Watching the Kings in the playoffs the last couple of years saying to a buddy "thats the type of player this club needs".(King, Nolan and Clifford) I have a feeling if they come here and we are not competitive they will turn into Penner. wicked circle with the oil and it's gonna take something special to break it. I am so sick of waiting fofr meaningful hockey I say try anything.

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#176 Zarny
February 06 2014, 02:29PM
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Spydyr wrote:

I don't care how many points he scores. He is a career -58. Yes, plus-minus is not the best stat, but when you are minus year after year it shows something.

Getting a player back that scores less, but is constantly a plus player helps the team more.

John Tavares is a career -43. Hopefully he never wears an Oilers jersey either I guess.

Ovechkin is currently -19 for the season. I suppose you'd be disappointed if the Oilers acquired him too?

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#177 Serious Gord
February 06 2014, 02:40PM
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Zarny wrote:

I wasn't trying to compare or suggest Gagner and Getzlaf were similar players or had similar value.

Simply pointing out that players have up years and down years. 2 years ago Getzlaf only had 57 pt in 82 games. This year he's sitting at 64 pt in 55 games.

Was Getzlaf worthless or did he have "negative value" 2 years ago? No.

And sorry but I don't agree with your definition of "negative value". I think that concept is actually quite silly.

Getzlaf struggled for a short period perhaps, Gagner has consistently underperformed - or rather has performed below the expectations/dreams of many on oilers management and omany more oilers fans.

Gagner wasn't getting 4.8 mill two years ago.

negative value is very simple and common:

You own a car that is appraised at $10000 and you outstanding loan is $15000. The car has a negative value of $5000.

Gagner is worth maybe 3mill/yr over 3 years (let's say) - in other words he could be replaced by a player of equal benefit for $3mill. and he's signed for 4.8 for 3 years. Thus he has a negative total value of 5.4 mill or 1,8 mill/year.

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#178 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
February 06 2014, 02:42PM
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Serious Gord wrote:

exactly. Have they ever sold High? Paajarvi maybe?

Agreed. Paajarvi maybe.

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#179 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
February 06 2014, 02:48PM
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King or Clifford is risky business in that average players can look good on a good well coached team. And then look like crap on a team like the Oilers.

No way the deal is Clifford for Gagner straight up. It would be Clifford and a pick or prospect. So the real question in the potential LA deal is are you good with trading proven NHL talent for a lesser talent and future prospects? Or do you pray that MacT can get back established talent for established talent somewhere else?

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#180 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
February 06 2014, 02:53PM
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On a secondary note, the Oilers have four basic needs the priority of which changes slightly over time but includes, Two-way play making centre, 1-2 Dman, #1 Goalie, Toughness/Grit.

We only have so many chips to use to get the four things. Do we really want to use one of our top 3 trading chips in Gagner for a return that does not address Center, D, or Goalie?

I want Gagner gone and I want tougher more gritty players but there is an opportunity cost if we don't utilize the Gagner chip (combined with other chips) to fill one of our gaping holes.

It really depends on managements view of what they think is possible at the deadline, in free agency, and in the summer trade market.

But of course, as usual, we are a bit hand cuffed with the no trade clause in Gags new contract. We may be forced to move him sooner than is optimal.

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#181 A-Mc
February 06 2014, 02:56PM
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@Serious Gord

ok so do you sell your 10,000 car and then bus it to work while paying off the remaining 5k? or do you keep it and sit on it until the money makes sense?

Also, appreciation on that 10k car (Player) is quite good and at some point, the assessed value will equal what you're currently paying (Cap going up and players starting to make more $).

Your scenario poorly supports your stance and if anything it gives credit to the group of people who say to keep him.

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#182 Truth
February 06 2014, 02:57PM
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@Serious Gord

2nd line C's

Anaheim - Mathieu Perrault

Buffalo - Cody Hodgson

Calgary - Sean Monohan/Matt Stajan

Chicago - Michael Handzus

Columbus - Artem Anisimov

Dallas - Cody Eakin

Florida - Nick Bjustad

Minnesota - Charlie Coyle (1st) Granlund (2)

Montreal - David Desharnais

Nashville - David Legwand

New Jersey - Travis Zajac

NYI - Frans Nielsen (career year)

Philadelphia - Brayden Schenn

Phoenix - Martin Hanzal

Toronto - Bozak/Kadri

Washington - Casey Wellman

Winnipeg - Mark Scheifele

I have not included the obvious ones (Det, Pit,LA) because Gagner would not be a 2C there, but you can make the case that a healthy Gagner is a better player than all of the above.

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#183 Rod from Viking
February 06 2014, 03:07PM
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Serious Gord wrote:

obviously there are bigger issues.

However Hendricks is an overpay. And every dollar off of the cap hurts as does the loss of a roster spot.

Cap inflation is not a sure thing given exchange rates and the continued softness of the US economy.

And Nashville couldn't unload him on any other team, what makes you think a year from now when he's in the AHL anyone is going to give up a pick for him?

Gord, I usually agree but not this time, this team needs some gritty players that will protect the skill guys and hold others accountable until the Mitch Moroz/Kyle Chase/Darnell Nurse get here, is it not ideal and neither is the Ference contract but it is essential to building a "team".

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#184 Cubsfan
February 06 2014, 03:09PM
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Everyone says the Oilers are dealing from a position of weaknes...sure they are but, their fate is sealed:

1. LA Knings can not score....they are desperate.....i would argue they are also in a weak position

2 Sure Gagne has a big contract.....but with the Cap moving up quite a bit next year, his contract is proportionally less of a noose around the organisations neck

3 I still dont think hes quite right since the broken jaw

4. If he goes to LA and plays with those big bodies and has some room, and get feeds from their D-men, we'll all be wondering how MacT go robbed and we'll want him fired for doing tis dumb deal.....Cogliano is benifiting

I just think the oilers should do the trade after the year during free agency.....or they should realize, that other team are in a WORSE postion of weakness than they are

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#185 pkam
February 06 2014, 03:10PM
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Truth wrote:

2nd line C's

Anaheim - Mathieu Perrault

Buffalo - Cody Hodgson

Calgary - Sean Monohan/Matt Stajan

Chicago - Michael Handzus

Columbus - Artem Anisimov

Dallas - Cody Eakin

Florida - Nick Bjustad

Minnesota - Charlie Coyle (1st) Granlund (2)

Montreal - David Desharnais

Nashville - David Legwand

New Jersey - Travis Zajac

NYI - Frans Nielsen (career year)

Philadelphia - Brayden Schenn

Phoenix - Martin Hanzal

Toronto - Bozak/Kadri

Washington - Casey Wellman

Winnipeg - Mark Scheifele

I have not included the obvious ones (Det, Pit,LA) because Gagner would not be a 2C there, but you can make the case that a healthy Gagner is a better player than all of the above.

Detroit just signed Steven Weiss this offseason to 5 years @4.9M per. He is 30 so he is not going to get any better, most likely going downhill in a couple of years.. So far 4 pts and -4 in 26 games this year.

You don't think they would take Gagner 4.8M 3 years contract over Weiss?

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#186 Rod from Viking
February 06 2014, 03:10PM
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Truth wrote:

2nd line C's

Anaheim - Mathieu Perrault

Buffalo - Cody Hodgson

Calgary - Sean Monohan/Matt Stajan

Chicago - Michael Handzus

Columbus - Artem Anisimov

Dallas - Cody Eakin

Florida - Nick Bjustad

Minnesota - Charlie Coyle (1st) Granlund (2)

Montreal - David Desharnais

Nashville - David Legwand

New Jersey - Travis Zajac

NYI - Frans Nielsen (career year)

Philadelphia - Brayden Schenn

Phoenix - Martin Hanzal

Toronto - Bozak/Kadri

Washington - Casey Wellman

Winnipeg - Mark Scheifele

I have not included the obvious ones (Det, Pit,LA) because Gagner would not be a 2C there, but you can make the case that a healthy Gagner is a better player than all of the above.

I would take Martin Handsel or Brayden Schenn with their physical presence, face off % and two way play in a heartbeat over Mr Gagner.

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#187 Serious Gord
February 06 2014, 03:11PM
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Truth wrote:

2nd line C's

Anaheim - Mathieu Perrault

Buffalo - Cody Hodgson

Calgary - Sean Monohan/Matt Stajan

Chicago - Michael Handzus

Columbus - Artem Anisimov

Dallas - Cody Eakin

Florida - Nick Bjustad

Minnesota - Charlie Coyle (1st) Granlund (2)

Montreal - David Desharnais

Nashville - David Legwand

New Jersey - Travis Zajac

NYI - Frans Nielsen (career year)

Philadelphia - Brayden Schenn

Phoenix - Martin Hanzal

Toronto - Bozak/Kadri

Washington - Casey Wellman

Winnipeg - Mark Scheifele

I have not included the obvious ones (Det, Pit,LA) because Gagner would not be a 2C there, but you can make the case that a healthy Gagner is a better player than all of the above.

Better than hanzal, bozak, Monahan legwand handzus? Really?

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#188 Serious Gord
February 06 2014, 03:13PM
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Rod from Viking wrote:

Gord, I usually agree but not this time, this team needs some gritty players that will protect the skill guys and hold others accountable until the Mitch Moroz/Kyle Chase/Darnell Nurse get here, is it not ideal and neither is the Ference contract but it is essential to building a "team".

He will be a distant memory but still drawing a paycheck oct '15.

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#189 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
February 06 2014, 03:16PM
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I would take at least 10 of the guys on the list in trade for Gagner.

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#190 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
February 06 2014, 03:20PM
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Heard on radio show that LA has requested Gagner's health records. Not sure of the source.

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#191 cccsberg
February 06 2014, 03:25PM
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Truth wrote:

2nd line C's

Anaheim - Mathieu Perrault

Buffalo - Cody Hodgson

Calgary - Sean Monohan/Matt Stajan

Chicago - Michael Handzus

Columbus - Artem Anisimov

Dallas - Cody Eakin

Florida - Nick Bjustad

Minnesota - Charlie Coyle (1st) Granlund (2)

Montreal - David Desharnais

Nashville - David Legwand

New Jersey - Travis Zajac

NYI - Frans Nielsen (career year)

Philadelphia - Brayden Schenn

Phoenix - Martin Hanzal

Toronto - Bozak/Kadri

Washington - Casey Wellman

Winnipeg - Mark Scheifele

I have not included the obvious ones (Det, Pit,LA) because Gagner would not be a 2C there, but you can make the case that a healthy Gagner is a better player than all of the above.

wow, just wow... when I started reading the list I was thinking, yeah, here's a bunch of 2C and I wouldn't take Gagner over many/any of these, and you think Gagner is better than them all? Forget the points, man, defensive ability & face-offs COUNT in the NHL!! Gagner can give you some points, but his other liabilities are major problems lowering his overall value. Forget even mentioning the contract... and forget also mentioning he's definitely not a good fit for the Oilers. This rumoured LAK trade may have its issues (if it happens) but the Oilers definitely need to make changes and Gagner going is part of the solution.

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#192 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
February 06 2014, 03:26PM
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Also, no matter who we trade with, unless we are taking back an overpriced contract, we will be eating 1 to 1.5 million of the Gagner contract.

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#193 Zarny
February 06 2014, 03:27PM
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Serious Gord wrote:

Better than hanzal, bozak, Monahan legwand handzus? Really?

Hanzal has never topped 36 pts so yes.

Bozak has hit 40 pts once and trailed Gagner by 10 pts last year so yes once again.

Monahan is a rookie who is on pace for 35 pts. In his rookie year Gagner had 49 pts.

Legwand is 33, past his prime, and has only ever topped 50 pts twice. Most years he's in the 30's or 40's. Legwand's career pt/gm is less than Gagner's too and his career FO% is only 0.46 compared to Gagner's 0.448. By the time he's 33 Gagner will have been a much better NHLer.

Handzus will be 37 this year and has only topped 50 pts twice. The last was in 2003-04...a decade ago. Since then he's averaged between 20-42 pts and has a career pt/gm well below Gagner.

For a bunch of whiners complaining Gagner doesn't produce enough you sure come up with a pile of sh*tducks who you think are better.

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#194 Rod from Viking
February 06 2014, 03:31PM
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Serious Gord wrote:

He will be a distant memory but still drawing a paycheck oct '15.

That may be long enough but I'm thinking October 16 and then joining the coaching staff(lol)

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#195 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
February 06 2014, 03:32PM
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I would take Monohan, Anisimov, Granlund, Desharnais, Zajac, Neisen,Kadri, and Scheifele over Gagner today.

I would take a couple more if they weren't so old.

I'd even take a few of the old guys like Legwand if you threw in a second rounder.

But I understand that there is a huge range of valuation for Gagner in the Oilers fan base. So it's just opinions which is fine. I'm not even that familiar with several guys on the list, like Bjugstad, Eakin, Coyle, Wellman.

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#196 cccsberg
February 06 2014, 03:33PM
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Zarny wrote:

Hanzal has never topped 36 pts so yes.

Bozak has hit 40 pts once and trailed Gagner by 10 pts last year so yes once again.

Monahan is a rookie who is on pace for 35 pts. In his rookie year Gagner had 49 pts.

Legwand is 33, past his prime, and has only ever topped 50 pts twice. Most years he's in the 30's or 40's. Legwand's career pt/gm is less than Gagner's too and his career FO% is only 0.46 compared to Gagner's 0.448. By the time he's 33 Gagner will have been a much better NHLer.

Handzus will be 37 this year and has only topped 50 pts twice. The last was in 2003-04...a decade ago. Since then he's averaged between 20-42 pts and has a career pt/gm well below Gagner.

For a bunch of whiners complaining Gagner doesn't produce enough you sure come up with a pile of sh*tducks who you think are better.

pts, pts, points... all about points.

That's what's got the Oilers in this mess in the first place, rather than building a well-rounded team.

Hey, if that's what you want, fine. Keep him! Finishing 29th-30th for a few more years looks good on ya...

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#197 Slapschtick
February 06 2014, 03:33PM
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Just because TSN says gagner doesn't make it so... It's Hemmer that's going with Clifford coming back, but that's just my opinion

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#198 Rod from Viking
February 06 2014, 03:43PM
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It is sure easy to tell which posters actually played the game and who looks up stats to justify their usually weak arguments.

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#199 Dan
February 06 2014, 03:49PM
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Zarny wrote:

John Tavares is a career -43. Hopefully he never wears an Oilers jersey either I guess.

Ovechkin is currently -19 for the season. I suppose you'd be disappointed if the Oilers acquired him too?

Let's see. Ovechkin Olympic team. Tavares Olympic team. I don't think if every player on team Canada was injured as well as everyone on the reserved list was injured would Yzerman even be thinking about Gagner. So lets stay focused.

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#200 Serious Gord
February 06 2014, 03:50PM
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Zarny wrote:

Hanzal has never topped 36 pts so yes.

Bozak has hit 40 pts once and trailed Gagner by 10 pts last year so yes once again.

Monahan is a rookie who is on pace for 35 pts. In his rookie year Gagner had 49 pts.

Legwand is 33, past his prime, and has only ever topped 50 pts twice. Most years he's in the 30's or 40's. Legwand's career pt/gm is less than Gagner's too and his career FO% is only 0.46 compared to Gagner's 0.448. By the time he's 33 Gagner will have been a much better NHLer.

Handzus will be 37 this year and has only topped 50 pts twice. The last was in 2003-04...a decade ago. Since then he's averaged between 20-42 pts and has a career pt/gm well below Gagner.

For a bunch of whiners complaining Gagner doesn't produce enough you sure come up with a pile of sh*tducks who you think are better.

Nothing you say takes into account contract and other tangible and intangible aspects of their games. And those things HAVE to be accounted for.

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