Trading Sam Gagner to the Los Angeles Kings Would Likely be a Mistake

Jonathan Willis
February 05 2014 09:33PM

Everybody and their dog seems to want the Edmonton Oilers to move Sam Gagner for whatever the team can get and the sooner the better. That’s why comments by Hockey Night in Canada’s Elliotte Friedman suggesting the Los Angeles Kings had serious interest in Gagner have attracted significant attention in Edmonton.

Clifford & Nolan

Bob Stauffer of Oilers Now was asked on Wednesday’s show about the Gagner rumours. He said the return was “going to be a guy like a [Kyle] Clifford or a [Jordan] Nolan or a [Dwight] King,” and that “there’s going to be a financial component involved” in this scenario, hinting that the Oilers would be retaining salary in the deal.

Let’s look at those players. Among Kings forwards with more than 20 games played, Clifford ranks 12th in even-strength ice-time per game and Nolan ranks 13th. Neither of them kills penalties. Basically, they’re both big, young fourth-liners who contribute almost nothing beyond a physical game. The Oilers have some experience grabbing fourth-liner off high-end teams – guys like Colin Fraser and Ben Eager. Those guys looked great in Chicago, and looked terrible in Edmonton.

Would Clifford or Nolan be an upgrade on, say, Jesse Joensuu? Absolutely. Are they going to play top-nine minutes? Probably not. Nolan couldn’t score in the AHL, and Clifford had 28 points in the OHL in his draft year. They’re fourth-line guys.

If Luke Gazdic and Jesse Joensuu and Teemu Hartikainen and Lennart Petrell and Ben Eager and all the rest of the big forwards the Oilers have run through their fourth line show anything, it’s that adding a big, physical guy to the bottom of the roster doesn’t do anything to fix the problems in the top-six. So trading a guy like Gagner, who has problems but is a proven NHL scorer, for a younger version of Ben Eager or a better version of Luke Gazdic is kind of a stupid thing to do.

Dwight King

Dwight King is a better player, but he’s also a guy who had 17 points in 28 AHL games last year and had 33 in 79 AHL games two seasons ago. He has 23 points this season, playing primarily with Anze Kopitar and Jeff Carter. He’s a big (6’4”, 230 pounds), young (he turns 25 this summer) left wing that can play top-nine minutes and kill penalties and add a physical presence. If the Oilers are moving Gagner for a forward, that’s the guy who the Kings might be willing to move and who is in the same value-range.

Now, the problems. If Gagner goes, that means Edmonton is relying on a Mark Arcobello or Anton Lander to play centre on the second line. As a guy who likes both players, I’d enjoy watching that but as an NHL G.M. I wouldn’t be at all comfortable with it. Maybe Gagner needs to be replaced anyway, but moving him for King means that Edmonton now has a second-line centre slot to fill. Is it easier to add a guy like King in free agency, or a guy like Gagner? If the Oilers need a big guy who can be plugged in on the second line, they can sign a Nikolai Kulemin or David Moss in the summer. There simply aren't second-line centres available, unless they can somehow talk Paul Stastny into moving to Edmonton. 

The second problem is salary. Sam Gagner has this season and two more with a $4.8 million cap hit. King has this season and one more at $750,000. So Edmonton would need to take another contract back, and probably need to eat half of Gagner’s contract. Yes, the salary cap is going up but this is also an Oilers team that needs to add significantly on defence and on the third line; spending $2.4 million for the next two seasons so that L.A. can have a cheap Gagner seems misguided.

I like King a lot, and he’s a nice fit for Edmonton. He’s just not a nice enough fit to justify dumping Gagner and retain half his salary in the process. Toss Jake Muzzin or Tyler Toffoli in, and there might be something to think about – but it’s not likely that the Kings are going to do that. 

Recently by Jonathan Willis

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Jonathan Willis is a freelance writer. He currently works for Oilers Nation, the Edmonton Journal and Bleacher Report. He's co-written three books and worked for myriad websites, including Grantland, ESPN, The Score, and Hockey Prospectus. He was previously the founder and managing editor of Copper & Blue.
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#151 BabyNuge's_Baby
February 06 2014, 07:15AM
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@Al Low

What you are saying makes sense, bit Reihhart is not the right prospect to be targeting, he is way too small. There are ither , bigger centers in the top ten we could take. Time to draft based on organizational need rather than best player available, Yak was a mistake and we should learn from it.

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#152 camdog
February 06 2014, 07:58AM
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Jonathan Willis wrote:

Because they had a stretch where they scored three goals in six games.

As for who makes it up, that would be Dean Lombardi, unless you think Elliotte Friedman was lying through his teeth.

Dean Lombardi, is that the same guy that got into that nasty fight with the Oilers a few years back?

A few years back Lombardi got all hot and bothered over Hemsky and ended up with Penner. This season the talk will be Gags and they will end up with Hemsky. Of course that's if they can't get anybody else first.

Seen this soap opera once before...

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#153 Spydyr
February 06 2014, 08:32AM
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Newj wrote:

What's next from Dave?...probably a video from his 8 pt game.

Time to move away from being the worst GA team in the league. Time to move Sam.

Although I do wonder how Sam will do in Sutter's world of back pressure and finishing checks?

You mentioned Gagner back pressure and finishing checks in the same sentence.

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#154 j
February 06 2014, 08:45AM
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camdog wrote:

Dean Lombardi, is that the same guy that got into that nasty fight with the Oilers a few years back?

A few years back Lombardi got all hot and bothered over Hemsky and ended up with Penner. This season the talk will be Gags and they will end up with Hemsky. Of course that's if they can't get anybody else first.

Seen this soap opera once before...

"...and ended up with Penner."

And won the Cup. I agree - Lombardi has played this game before. Much better than we have. He has fleeced the Oil for Stoll, Greene, Penner to date.

Gagner has value in this league. Every other GM is aware of how poor the team is currently performing and the lack of defensive structure. Sam is 24 years old and has the second highest point total of his draft class. This alone has value. The question is how to maximize this value. I can't see the Oil winning any exchange at this point unless the desperation out there starts to ramp up. There are some teams that are in 'win now' mode so you never know what they are willing to sacrifice but we have to keep a poker face through to the last minute. I think MacT has done a great job on this front. He hasn't mentioned Gagner's name at all.

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#155 DisappointedFan
February 06 2014, 10:36AM
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@Shifty203

As a fellow arm-chair GM I can tell you with certainty that not all arm-chair GM's would not make for real GM's...and just because their NHL14 team has an 82-0 record doesn't mean they're ready for the big leagues!

Hence all the infini-build proposition trades out here...

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#156 Al77
February 06 2014, 11:15AM
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A-Mc wrote:

I'm almost angry at the prospect of a Gagner for Clifford move. Clifford is a clear 4th liner. I can't see any way that the deal makes sense for us.

I agree,but the oil have a love for these type of players,the problem is they don't target top six players in this mode I.e Simmonds,Marcus Foligno!

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#157 pkam
February 06 2014, 12:03PM
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Serious Gord wrote:

Gagner has negative value. If the oil could just make him and his contract disappear they would be better off. So if they get "spare parts" back for very little money then it is a win for the oil.

How about Stephen Weiss?

Ken Holland just signed him this offseason to a 5 year 4.9M contract to be their 2nd center.

If we can trade our negative asset Gagner straight for a 2nd center from the Wings should be a big win for us, right? Perhaps we should package a pick or a prospect just to sweeten the pot.

I know we shouldn't trust MacT but we should be able to trust Holland, right?

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#158 michael
February 06 2014, 12:22PM
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Mark Spector states that we need to be realistic in our expectations on the return for Sam Gagner.

I'd say that LA has to be realistic what they are offering.

Kyle Clifford? and a 3rd? Not on MacT's watch.I like to get kissed before I get screwed. But wow isn't a trade suppose to be good for both parties?

If what is rumored is the deal.I'd rather do nothing.Stick with the devil you know I say.

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#159 Ryan14
February 06 2014, 12:39PM
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Gagner isn't the player that the Oilers and media want him to be or think he is.

His best season (2011-12) had him 43rd amongst centers in points with 47, tied with Tyler Bozak (the same Tyler Bozak that is considered by many to be grossly overpaid at 4.2), Frans Nielsen and Kyle Wellwood. Kyle Brodziak and Derek Roy were three points back of Gagner.

Gagner is a slightly above average point producer, below average face off man and has below average defensive ability.

If he was putting up 55, 65 points, then you could argue that he is worth more. As it stands now, with his current (and career) production levels, his inability to play anywhere that is not in the offensive zone, and poor face-off ability, the value for him is not that high. Add in his near $5 million cap hit and his inability to remain consistent at any degree, and his value diminishes even more.

He is what he is.

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#160 Mike
February 06 2014, 12:46PM
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Gagner only has value to a select few teams, his contract is too high, he is a deeply flawed center (who can't take draws, and can't defend). The Oilers will be much better off drafting a larger body for center next year, or finding one through another trade. This means Gagner has to be moved. We aren't dealing from a position of any strength, if anything, Gagner has negative value as he is overpaid for what he does, and will be for some years moving forward.

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#161 Serious Gord
February 06 2014, 01:37PM
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2004Z06 wrote:

Why you think this guys salary is an issue is beyond me? In 2 years it will be the league minimum the way the cap is rising.

Besides, he will be traded for a pick if need be.

The Oilers have much bigger issues to deal with than how to fit Hendricks under their cap.

obviously there are bigger issues.

However Hendricks is an overpay. And every dollar off of the cap hurts as does the loss of a roster spot.

Cap inflation is not a sure thing given exchange rates and the continued softness of the US economy.

And Nashville couldn't unload him on any other team, what makes you think a year from now when he's in the AHL anyone is going to give up a pick for him?

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#162 Cowbell_Feva
February 06 2014, 02:06PM
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This could be a classic case of an Oiler going elsewhere and becoming grabbing a Cup ring. Gagner could be one of the best producing 2nd line centers in the league if the Kings play him with some of their big dogs. It's something he doesn't have here in Edmonton.

Saying that, his numbers are what they are, and his faceoffs and defensive ineptitudes are very real, so to my mind, no matter what, the Oilers may lose the trade due to the fact that he is almost guaranteed to do better in LA.

However, gaining a big body (I would hope for Toffoli or King) that could play top 6 in Edmonton would very quickly change the whole dynamic of the Oilers forwards. No more would opposition defenseman have the luxury of easily pushing the small kids around and not have a net presence, outside the 4th line. Intangibles that win hockey games.

Definetly not a solution to the defensive issues, but a good start in my opinion. P.S. Kyle Clifford was a guy I wish the Oilers would have pursued a lot harder as a Free Agent this past summer. He signed for just over $1 mill/per. To trade Gagner for him just doesn't make sense, when you could have had him for as little as he signed for in L.A.

Hope MacT knows what he's doing.

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#163 Rod from Viking
February 06 2014, 03:07PM
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Serious Gord wrote:

obviously there are bigger issues.

However Hendricks is an overpay. And every dollar off of the cap hurts as does the loss of a roster spot.

Cap inflation is not a sure thing given exchange rates and the continued softness of the US economy.

And Nashville couldn't unload him on any other team, what makes you think a year from now when he's in the AHL anyone is going to give up a pick for him?

Gord, I usually agree but not this time, this team needs some gritty players that will protect the skill guys and hold others accountable until the Mitch Moroz/Kyle Chase/Darnell Nurse get here, is it not ideal and neither is the Ference contract but it is essential to building a "team".

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#164 Rod from Viking
February 06 2014, 03:10PM
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Truth wrote:

2nd line C's

Anaheim - Mathieu Perrault

Buffalo - Cody Hodgson

Calgary - Sean Monohan/Matt Stajan

Chicago - Michael Handzus

Columbus - Artem Anisimov

Dallas - Cody Eakin

Florida - Nick Bjustad

Minnesota - Charlie Coyle (1st) Granlund (2)

Montreal - David Desharnais

Nashville - David Legwand

New Jersey - Travis Zajac

NYI - Frans Nielsen (career year)

Philadelphia - Brayden Schenn

Phoenix - Martin Hanzal

Toronto - Bozak/Kadri

Washington - Casey Wellman

Winnipeg - Mark Scheifele

I have not included the obvious ones (Det, Pit,LA) because Gagner would not be a 2C there, but you can make the case that a healthy Gagner is a better player than all of the above.

I would take Martin Handsel or Brayden Schenn with their physical presence, face off % and two way play in a heartbeat over Mr Gagner.

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#165 Serious Gord
February 06 2014, 03:11PM
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Truth wrote:

2nd line C's

Anaheim - Mathieu Perrault

Buffalo - Cody Hodgson

Calgary - Sean Monohan/Matt Stajan

Chicago - Michael Handzus

Columbus - Artem Anisimov

Dallas - Cody Eakin

Florida - Nick Bjustad

Minnesota - Charlie Coyle (1st) Granlund (2)

Montreal - David Desharnais

Nashville - David Legwand

New Jersey - Travis Zajac

NYI - Frans Nielsen (career year)

Philadelphia - Brayden Schenn

Phoenix - Martin Hanzal

Toronto - Bozak/Kadri

Washington - Casey Wellman

Winnipeg - Mark Scheifele

I have not included the obvious ones (Det, Pit,LA) because Gagner would not be a 2C there, but you can make the case that a healthy Gagner is a better player than all of the above.

Better than hanzal, bozak, Monahan legwand handzus? Really?

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#166 cccsberg
February 06 2014, 03:25PM
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Truth wrote:

2nd line C's

Anaheim - Mathieu Perrault

Buffalo - Cody Hodgson

Calgary - Sean Monohan/Matt Stajan

Chicago - Michael Handzus

Columbus - Artem Anisimov

Dallas - Cody Eakin

Florida - Nick Bjustad

Minnesota - Charlie Coyle (1st) Granlund (2)

Montreal - David Desharnais

Nashville - David Legwand

New Jersey - Travis Zajac

NYI - Frans Nielsen (career year)

Philadelphia - Brayden Schenn

Phoenix - Martin Hanzal

Toronto - Bozak/Kadri

Washington - Casey Wellman

Winnipeg - Mark Scheifele

I have not included the obvious ones (Det, Pit,LA) because Gagner would not be a 2C there, but you can make the case that a healthy Gagner is a better player than all of the above.

wow, just wow... when I started reading the list I was thinking, yeah, here's a bunch of 2C and I wouldn't take Gagner over many/any of these, and you think Gagner is better than them all? Forget the points, man, defensive ability & face-offs COUNT in the NHL!! Gagner can give you some points, but his other liabilities are major problems lowering his overall value. Forget even mentioning the contract... and forget also mentioning he's definitely not a good fit for the Oilers. This rumoured LAK trade may have its issues (if it happens) but the Oilers definitely need to make changes and Gagner going is part of the solution.

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#167 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
February 06 2014, 03:32PM
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I would take Monohan, Anisimov, Granlund, Desharnais, Zajac, Neisen,Kadri, and Scheifele over Gagner today.

I would take a couple more if they weren't so old.

I'd even take a few of the old guys like Legwand if you threw in a second rounder.

But I understand that there is a huge range of valuation for Gagner in the Oilers fan base. So it's just opinions which is fine. I'm not even that familiar with several guys on the list, like Bjugstad, Eakin, Coyle, Wellman.

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#168 Truth
February 06 2014, 04:21PM
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Everyone does realize that Gagner has played on the worst performing team in the league for his entire career, right?

The team is -258 in goal differential since he joined the team. Being a plus player on this team for that entire stretch would either a) be a miracle, or b) be a player that plays an extremely limited role.

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#169 A-Mc
February 06 2014, 04:30PM
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Doctor Smashy wrote:

And for what it's worth, Zarny is owning ever Gagner-hating clown on this board today.

Agreed, and i'm glad he is. i was getting tired of repeating myself.

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#170 big slick
February 06 2014, 05:47PM
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@Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)

When does Gagner's NTC kick in, July 1st?

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#171 Danger Pay
February 06 2014, 07:57PM
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Terrible, terrible, terrible trade...unless Gagner has checked out. Even then I'm sure he'd waive his no- trade and No Way should the Oilers retain any salary. I am sick and tired of the Oilers paying a player to play for another team! I'd rather gamble and showcase Gagner next year.

*I'm talking about the Clifford for Gags and the Oilers retain salary rumour* If there's more to the deal and there better be, I'll update my opinion on it at that time

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#172 Doctor Smashy
February 06 2014, 09:47PM
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Saytalk wrote:

Have any of you actually watched Gagner play? Or do you only judge a player by his box scores and how he compares to players from the same draft year (a weak year to boot)?

A small one-dimensional forward who contributes nothing beyond his pedestrian point at a ~0.6 PPG rate. Watch him backcheck in his own zone and you can see what a joke of a player he is. You can say he's bad because he's part of a bad team, but as the current 2C and a veteran among most of the forwards, Gagner is more the cause than the effect of this team's awfulness.

If King is on the table, then I'd make the deal happen, even if it means retaining some salary. Better yet, trade Gagner to the Canucks so we can sabotage their chances of making the playoffs next year.

SO the thesis of your argument is that the Oilers are bad because Gagner is on the team. Ok, so have you checked to see what our record was before he returned at the end of October? We must have been doing great! Oh right, we were 3-10. Our record suggests we were better with him. I appreciate the fact that you are trying to fit in with this very fashionable 'Gagner as the source of all of our problems' thing but it is just getting very old. It is plain to see he has had some VERY bad games. Getzlaf had a very bad season. Ovechkin had a very bad season. Am I equating them with Gagner? No. I am comparing the scenarios of turning on a 1.0 PPG player because of one bad season and turning on a 0.6 PPG player because of one bad season. It is the same thing and it is stupid in both cases. Gagner is worth A LOT more more than Clifford. Period. He may not fit on our team because of all the other players we have that bring the same thing...sure. But let's not drive this guy out of town because of this meme that is dominating the collective Oiler mind.

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#173 horndog77
February 05 2014, 10:20PM
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Perhaps Edmonton wants to clear cap space. There is a lot of players to sign or resign next year. Just looked at this years free agents ....yikes! Any trade for Gagner should involve a decent defenseman because there isn't much too Like in free agency

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#174 Rod from Viking
February 05 2014, 10:46PM
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Jonathan Willis wrote:

I think a contending team needs to do better than Bolland as its 2C; he'd be a place-holder, just like Gagner is now.

Funny thing about Bolland, too: he's actually the same size as Gagner.

I agree with that but he has a better two way game and has won two cups(I think he knows a little about winning),on a contending team he is a third line center. I would be very happy if the switch flipped on Sam and he became a 200ft player but I don't see that happening, we need a true 2-3 shutdown d man and a true #2 center if this team is going to go anywhere. Do we have any future # 2 centers for prospects? If you don't like Bolland who would you like to see them target?

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#175 **
February 05 2014, 10:55PM
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Trading to a division rival is bad, but if there ar no other takers, what can one do?. Mac T. must be close to a deal for a second line center if he is willing to partake with Gagner. Best way to get Gagner out of town should be a package deal for a quality player, not for coke machines.

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#176 Tim in Kelowna
February 06 2014, 08:31AM
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For once I agree with JW, at least on one point. I like Clifford and Nolan, and they have more upside than Willis suggests, but a team weak down the middle trading their 2nd line centre for a winger makes no sense.

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#177 oilfanincalgary
February 06 2014, 09:09AM
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if we keep Gags we have a gaping hole at #2 centre.addition by subtraction. take anything you can get. The team gets better as soon as he is not on the roster.

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#178 BingBong
February 06 2014, 09:16AM
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And for those saying we won't have a 2nd line center if we trade Gagner, why can't Arcabello just take his place? Similar offensive production this year, much better defensively, harder worker, much cheaper contract, etc.

I'm guessing Eakins wants Arco there anyway.

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#179 S cottV
February 06 2014, 10:47AM
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Only way to showcase Gagner is to put players around him, that will push zone time forward - as much as is possible.

Gagner and Yak - together, is not good for either of them. Both require support around them to play in the offensive end. Keeping them together is sure to minimize the chances of moving Gagner, in any kind of reasonable deal.

If showcasing is an objective - the premier guys to play him with, would be Perron and Hall. Maybe send RNH a signal at the same time,to up his game by mixing up that top line.

If that can't be justified, then at least don't make Gagner look any worse than neccesary, by giving him Perron and Hemsky or Smyth and Hemsky.

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#180 Zamboni Driver
February 06 2014, 11:04AM
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@Spydyr

Yeah...I mean if they did it right now they might go on a 6-game losing streak or something!

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#181 Serious Gord
February 06 2014, 11:28AM
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ubermiguel wrote:

Dubnyk for Hendricks was overvaluing him?

get back to me in a year or so when the oil is payinghim 1.85 mill to play in the AHL.

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#182 Serious Gord
February 06 2014, 11:35AM
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Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty) wrote:

Unfortunately, the Oilers management team has never had the courage or conviction that it takes to sell high. They are both not courageous enough and operating from a position of desperation.

exactly. Have they ever sold High? Paajarvi maybe?

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#183 Ed in Edmonton
February 06 2014, 12:54PM
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The King's deal might might be as good as it gets for Gags. The Kings are desperate for scoring and might be forced into doing something they wouldn't normally.

The oil fans and media often over value the Oilers players. The fans are fans and is understandable. However, the media should now better, thay are supposed to have some expertise in these matters. How many in the media heralded Hemsky at 5 million year as a good deal?

Gagner is a marginal 2C (because he is too small and too defensively weak to be played at 3C) getting paid way above his ability. He is exactly what the Oil need to rid themselves of.

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#184 mike
February 06 2014, 01:28PM
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[quote]Gagner was 37th in points in all of the NHL last year. 18th among centers. On pace for 65 pts.[/quote] What did the centers one or two places above him and below him earn? And what was their draw % and plus minus? Arcobello was every bit as good as Gagner at a fraction of the cost, but we really need a more physical / defensive center given the make up of our top 6. It hurts to realize a top pick the Oilers made has minimal value to other teams, but thanks to his contract (which overpays him given his flaws), that's the reality.

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#185 pkam
February 06 2014, 01:55PM
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Spydyr wrote:

I don't care how many points he scores. He is a career -58. Yes, plus-minus is not the best stat, but when you are minus year after year it shows something.

Getting a player back that scores less, but is constantly a plus player helps the team more.

The only 2 Oilers forwards who are + this year are Ryan Jones and Ben Eager, the next is Acton at -1. One thing for sure, they score less. I didn't know you like these 3 players so much.

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#186 Serious Gord
February 06 2014, 02:12PM
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David S wrote:

So by that logic MacT should have dumped RNH when he was recovering from his shoulder injury - because he wasn't performing up to his contract. Nevermind the whole "coming back from surgery/needs time to get back to 100%" crap, right?

Even a healthy Gagner has negative value. I wanted him traded not signed. I was right. MAct and presumably you, were wrong.

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#187 geeker99
February 06 2014, 02:23PM
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I still don't feel like you will get a proper evaluation on many players till meaningful hockey is played. Watching the Kings in the playoffs the last couple of years saying to a buddy "thats the type of player this club needs".(King, Nolan and Clifford) I have a feeling if they come here and we are not competitive they will turn into Penner. wicked circle with the oil and it's gonna take something special to break it. I am so sick of waiting fofr meaningful hockey I say try anything.

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#188 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
February 06 2014, 02:42PM
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Serious Gord wrote:

exactly. Have they ever sold High? Paajarvi maybe?

Agreed. Paajarvi maybe.

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#189 pkam
February 06 2014, 03:10PM
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Truth wrote:

2nd line C's

Anaheim - Mathieu Perrault

Buffalo - Cody Hodgson

Calgary - Sean Monohan/Matt Stajan

Chicago - Michael Handzus

Columbus - Artem Anisimov

Dallas - Cody Eakin

Florida - Nick Bjustad

Minnesota - Charlie Coyle (1st) Granlund (2)

Montreal - David Desharnais

Nashville - David Legwand

New Jersey - Travis Zajac

NYI - Frans Nielsen (career year)

Philadelphia - Brayden Schenn

Phoenix - Martin Hanzal

Toronto - Bozak/Kadri

Washington - Casey Wellman

Winnipeg - Mark Scheifele

I have not included the obvious ones (Det, Pit,LA) because Gagner would not be a 2C there, but you can make the case that a healthy Gagner is a better player than all of the above.

Detroit just signed Steven Weiss this offseason to 5 years @4.9M per. He is 30 so he is not going to get any better, most likely going downhill in a couple of years.. So far 4 pts and -4 in 26 games this year.

You don't think they would take Gagner 4.8M 3 years contract over Weiss?

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#190 Old Retired Guy (A.K.A. Die-Nasty)
February 06 2014, 03:16PM
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I would take at least 10 of the guys on the list in trade for Gagner.

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#191 Dan
February 06 2014, 03:49PM
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Zarny wrote:

John Tavares is a career -43. Hopefully he never wears an Oilers jersey either I guess.

Ovechkin is currently -19 for the season. I suppose you'd be disappointed if the Oilers acquired him too?

Let's see. Ovechkin Olympic team. Tavares Olympic team. I don't think if every player on team Canada was injured as well as everyone on the reserved list was injured would Yzerman even be thinking about Gagner. So lets stay focused.

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#192 David S
February 06 2014, 08:27PM
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camdog wrote:

The problems on this team are higher than Sam Gagner. When he had big, defensively reliable Penner on his wing he played a good game.

Problem is he doesn't work with small, defensively unreliable wingers. It's been 8 years of the same team make up. Doesn't seem to matter who the GM is, they still try the same things. That tells me the problem is higher than the GM, who would have thunk it?

^ THIS - and why he's gonna rip it up in LA.

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#193 Chris
February 07 2014, 01:07AM
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Too bad we didn't trade Gagner after his 8 point night.

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#194 Mr common sense
February 05 2014, 10:29PM
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Smokey wrote:

Kings had a small fiester winger/center by the name of Mike Cammalleri they dumped a few years ago when they were crap. Why would they want Sam Gagner? Why do they even need him? Who makes this stuff up?

100% correct.

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#195 Mr common sense
February 05 2014, 10:40PM
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Woogie63 wrote:

Does Friedman ever use "s when he throws suggestions out to the audience? He is on just about every cities morning drive sport radio program one or two times a week; on HNIC; blogging ....he needs material to fill all those time slots.

Listen closer to how he say things;

It has been suggested to me....

I have been texting with GM and there some common thought ....

Lots of interesting feelings, dressed up to sound like facts.

"" obviously omitted

Lol exactly. It's the subconscious want of everyone in edm to want Gagner gone, we say it straight whereas others hang off the words of marginal sources

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#196 ubermiguel
February 06 2014, 09:17AM
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Serious Gord wrote:

First let's get some facts agreed upon:

Signing gagner was a big mistake by MacT.

Trading gagner - like trading Horcoff - gets this mistake out of view and thus remarkably out of the memories of many oilers fans.

MacT overvalues many of his assets - none more so than gagner (hemsky and dubnyk aren't far behind). Thus he will struggle to move him.

As for the return from LA; gagner could indeed work out better there than he does here because of the supporting cast he would be with in LA being able to cover his manifold deficiencies. Ditto the players the oil might get in return. Scoring stats simply don't tell the whole story.

In sum, gagner has negative value. That means the oil will get negative value back or have to carry a big chunk of his salary for the rest its term. And he is not the only negative value player that this team has...

Dubnyk for Hendricks was overvaluing him?

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#197 Serious Gord
February 06 2014, 12:02PM
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A-Mc wrote:

Ya i dont agree, so there is no way we can discuss Mr Samwise.

The only problem with Sam is that he doesnt fit what this team needs badly. That's a far cry from "negative" value.

The cap is going up folks - Players like Callahan are looking to make ~7mill/yr. Gagner is NOT Callahan, but you can see how the $/value ratio is about to get ugly.

4.8 for samwise isn't a big deal and isn't preventing the team from signing good players.

He is being paid more than he is worth. There is no other team in the league that would pay as much. Thus he has negative value.

The cap is going up for everyone so cap room will continue to be an issue. Gagner is an overpay now and will continue to be one.

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#198 Mike
February 06 2014, 01:07PM
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"Good grief, drivel about "addition by subtraction".

Sorry but when you take a guy who has averaged 50 pts over 82 games and was on pace for 65 pts last year before ever hitting his prime off a team you are adding nothing."

How many points did he give away during this period? How many draws did he lose? He is a small body on a team full of small bodies, we need a large or physical 2nd line center.

Between some big bodies on LA he "might" be OK (albeit an expensive OK, not one I would give up a decent asset for), but on the Oilers he is a very poor fit. We were just as good with Arcobello but had $4 to $5million more cap space.

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#199 Serious Gord
February 06 2014, 02:04PM
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Spydyr wrote:

I don't care how many points he scores. He is a career -58. Yes, plus-minus is not the best stat, but when you are minus year after year it shows something.

Getting a player back that scores less, but is constantly a plus player helps the team more.

On an epically and consistently bad team like EDM plus minus is an irrelevant stat. Hell, Bobby Orr would have a hard time being a plus player on this team.

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#200 Spydyr
February 06 2014, 02:11PM
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Serious Gord wrote:

On an epically and consistently bad team like EDM plus minus is an irrelevant stat. Hell, Bobby Orr would have a hard time being a plus player on this team.

Funny Hall is a career -12.That is a long ways form Gagners -58

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