BIG OPPORTUNITY

Lowetide
February 07 2014 09:13PM

The trade for Ben Scrivens looks like a quality move by Oilers GM Craig MacTavish. However, Oiler fans have gone from "well, maybe Scrivens will be okay" to "why didn't they sign him right away!?!?!" and Oiler management is being cast as incompetent in a whole new way. The Oilers have something of value for young Srivens—beyond money. That one thing is probably the key to signing him, and doing it in due time.

WORK!

The Oilers can offer Ben Scrivens work, and plenty of it. Now, he might not get 50+ shots a night, but he'll be busy until these young players mature and begin pushing back against good NHL teams (all of the good NHL teams are in the Pacific Division—I'm kidding but only a little).

Edmonton could go to Scrivens during the Olympic break and offer a lucrative contract that goes beyond his resume. If they extended a two or three-year offer with dollars between $2M and $3M a season, I can't imagine the young man turning it down. There's some real security in that contract for Scrivens.

It's still a risky contract for the Oilers, as Scrivens doesn't have a lot of experience and the club just went through a disaster in goal early this season. What if Scrivens is unable to repeat his season in 2014-15? Once bitten, twice shy is a cliche for a reason.

WHAT ABOUT SIGNING SCRIVENS TO A ONE-YEAR DEAL?

If he signs a one year deal, wins the #1 job and kills it, you're paying a lot of money for additional free agent seasons. Then again, if the Oilers have another poor season that may not be MacTavish's problem. Among decisions to be made in the next six months, starting goaltender is pretty damn big.

DAMMIT MAN, WHAT'S THE BETTER PLAN?

A good General Manager looks to solve the problem longer term, so a multi-year deal is likely the better plan. A two-year deal—and a veteran backup with plenty of experience—may be the route to take. However, I believe MacTavish would be wise to wait until the rest of this season rolls out, and for the Oilers to play Ben Scrivens in 15 (or so) games after the Olympics. His price may go up, but the Oilers have to be sure on this one.

WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?

I believe Craig MacTavish was on his way to signing a Jonas Hiller in the offseason before Scrivens happened. The Oilers may still sign a veteran starter, but the opportunity to solve a massive problem with a player in his prime is very attractive. The asset cost was low, the dollar investment (money and term) should still be reasonable.

Edmonton and Scrivens may be a very good match. The carrot is the money married to the opportunity. Ben Scrivens will probably be as interested in a multi-year deal and the #1 job in the spring as he is now, and the Oilers will get a longer look before committing to another masked man before they are completely convinced he can succeed as a starting goalie.

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Lowetide has been one of the Oilogosphere's shining lights for over a century. You can check him out here at OilersNation and at lowetide.ca. He is also the host of Lowdown with Lowetide weekday mornings 10-noon on TSN 1260.
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#1 DSF
February 07 2014, 09:31PM
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Hi Jay (Fee).

This is Brian (Burke).

I don't have any established goaltenders on my roster for next season so, if you have any clients you think I might be interested in, or if you have any goaltending clients who would like an offer on July 1st, please let me know.

(Fee) Hahahahahaha

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#2 gus1000
February 07 2014, 09:31PM
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There are a couple of big ifs there. Does he want to stay? I sure hope so, and if the team chemistry works, we don't truly know what goes on in the room, then sign him to a two or three year deal. He is consistent, whichever team, be it Toronto, LA or here, his numbers are relatively steady.

Before anyone says he hasn't played enough, well I give you exhibit A, J. Bernier, in Toronto. He had a small resume, and is doing what needs to be done. He had pedigree sure, but not many proven starts.

I think the professor should be signed, if it works in the room and he wants to stay.

I also think we should sign Bryz too. Now hear me out. His numbers aren't atrocious, another good night tonight, with our mediocre defense. I think this is a solid tandem, both guys could play 40 games, or close to it. If an injury pops up, the other guy is good. Think Vernon Osgood. It truly could be a good deal, if we get some defense.

Again, not sure how his circus act is in the room, but if it is working, keep running. I like Hiller, but he has had vertigo issues, a groin the pops now and again, and he is easily $5 mil a season, especially here. I'd rather two $3 mil guys than one $5 mil guy and Bachmann or whomever backing him up, and have the injury bus hit.

Save money, work on the defense. Sign what we have and keep building.

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#3 Curcro
February 07 2014, 09:33PM
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Quite a number of teams have a back-up goalie at/or near $2M. Scrivens definitely seems to be at the very least capable of being an NHL back-up goalie. With the Salary Cap going up significantly this year as well as next (when the TV Deal kicks in). I think you could take a bit of a gamble on Scrivens if you can get him in the $2M range over 3 years. If he doesn't pan out as a starter he would still be in the salary price point of a back up goalie.

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#4 Comrade GT
February 07 2014, 09:34PM
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What if he has a kid and he tanks like Dubby and Kiprusoff? Just saying, there's a trend happening here.

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#5 vetinari
February 07 2014, 09:35PM
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Still think that sooner may be better than later... I think the worry is that the season will end, both goalies will walk and there are only a couple of worthwhile starting goalies who may hit the UFA market and we are unlikely to be their first destination choice. Go with the devil you know.

Also, with the March trade deadline, if Scrivens won't sign an extension, you can likely flip him again and recoup a first or second rounder or a decent prospect or a depth role player for his services as a playoff rental.

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#6 DSF
February 07 2014, 09:36PM
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vetinari wrote:

Still think that sooner may be better than later... I think the worry is that the season will end, both goalies will walk and there are only a couple of worthwhile starting goalies who may hit the UFA market and we are unlikely to be their first destination choice. Go with the devil you know.

Also, with the March trade deadline, if Scrivens won't sign an extension, you can likely flip him again and recoup a first or second rounder or a decent prospect or a depth role player for his services as a playoff rental.

I think you're right and both goalies will walk.

The Oilers need to flip both of them.

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#8 **
February 07 2014, 09:42PM
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gus1000 wrote:

There are a couple of big ifs there. Does he want to stay? I sure hope so, and if the team chemistry works, we don't truly know what goes on in the room, then sign him to a two or three year deal. He is consistent, whichever team, be it Toronto, LA or here, his numbers are relatively steady.

Before anyone says he hasn't played enough, well I give you exhibit A, J. Bernier, in Toronto. He had a small resume, and is doing what needs to be done. He had pedigree sure, but not many proven starts.

I think the professor should be signed, if it works in the room and he wants to stay.

I also think we should sign Bryz too. Now hear me out. His numbers aren't atrocious, another good night tonight, with our mediocre defense. I think this is a solid tandem, both guys could play 40 games, or close to it. If an injury pops up, the other guy is good. Think Vernon Osgood. It truly could be a good deal, if we get some defense.

Again, not sure how his circus act is in the room, but if it is working, keep running. I like Hiller, but he has had vertigo issues, a groin the pops now and again, and he is easily $5 mil a season, especially here. I'd rather two $3 mil guys than one $5 mil guy and Bachmann or whomever backing him up, and have the injury bus hit.

Save money, work on the defense. Sign what we have and keep building.

The whole team has been a big if for 8 years now, and management keeps banking on those ifs. I had a change of mind so I edited this post, I now agree with you that Scrivens needs to be re signed ASAP, and BRyz too for that matter. I just made a long post further down explaining my reasoning. In the end though, if the d corps is not improved before next season opener, it will matter little who's on net. Just ask Ryan Miller.

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#9 **
February 07 2014, 09:48PM
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vetinari wrote:

Still think that sooner may be better than later... I think the worry is that the season will end, both goalies will walk and there are only a couple of worthwhile starting goalies who may hit the UFA market and we are unlikely to be their first destination choice. Go with the devil you know.

Also, with the March trade deadline, if Scrivens won't sign an extension, you can likely flip him again and recoup a first or second rounder or a decent prospect or a depth role player for his services as a playoff rental.

The smart thing to do is probably what you are saying: make an offer to Scrivens (and Bryzgalov for that matter), whatever it is, and give him until the trade deadline to accept it. The biggest risk here is that these 2 decide they don't want to stay in Edmonton and walk away for nothing, given their performances as of late, if they keep it up after the olympic break, they can bring something useful back in a trade if they are walking away for nothing anyways. Mac T. is going to have to thread lightly and think fast on this one. It should be fun to watch unravel.

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#10 DSF
February 07 2014, 09:49PM
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Lowetide wrote:

Oh Good Christ. MacTavish just traded for a guy who he wanted to look at, and so far the young man has delivered. I don't think there's any harm in signing him now, but would suggest seeing more of him. Trading him now is nuts, unless he absolutely has no interest in being an NHL starting goalie in Edmonton.

I trust he's got the gumption to dream big.

If he has the gumption to dream big he will likely look elsewhere,

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#11 Quicksilver ballet
February 07 2014, 09:49PM
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Not a lot of miles on this goaltender. He could be another late bloomer/Dwayne Roloson. Both Bryzgalov and Scrivens ended up here hoping to use this opportunity to find work elsewhere. Ben has seized this opportunity and will surely land on his feet again this summer.

As in courting any other UFA pending player, a 10 million over 4 yrs may appear to be the overpay that could get him to hang around a few more yrs. If he doesn't sign that during the Olympic break, trade him at the deadline to the highest bidder. He's played over his head behind this swiss cheese group of blueliners here. I'm sure his last couple weeks haven't gone unnoticed. If they don't force this issue now, after March 5th he'll hold all the cards.

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#13 emonkee
February 07 2014, 10:02PM
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@Lowetide

Canucks in 9th spot, Phoenix has 2 games in hand @ 8th. You have Dallas 1 pt back of Van with 2 games in hand, Jets 2 pts behind and Nashville 3 pts back with 1 game in hand. Vancouver = free falling....

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#14 gus1000
February 07 2014, 10:03PM
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** wrote:

The whole team has been a big if for 8 years now, and management keeps banking on those ifs. I had a change of mind so I edited this post, I now agree with you that Scrivens needs to be re signed ASAP, and BRyz too for that matter. I just made a long post further down explaining my reasoning. In the end though, if the d corps is not improved before next season opener, it will matter little who's on net. Just ask Ryan Miller.

Ryan Miller is an excellent example of why we need to fix the defense in front of the net first. He is an Olympian, great goaltender, on the worst team in the league. He isn't getting much help, and neither are our guys.

Keep what we have, and build with some veteran guys on the back end.

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#15 DSF
February 07 2014, 10:10PM
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Lowetide wrote:

Scrivens signs here for two or three years, he's going to notch a few W's against that failing Vancouver team of yours.

Teams likely in the market for goaltending next season:

Chicago

Pittsburgh

Detroit

Philadelphia

St. Louis

New Jersey

Buffalo

CALGARY

NYI

Florida

I would wager that picking up a couple of wins against Vancouver won't factor into Scrivens decision at all.

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#16 Quicksilver ballet
February 07 2014, 10:11PM
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With the Blues going after Ryan Miller. It could free up a guy like Chris Stewart. His stock in St. Louis appears to have fallen this yr. With Miller signed long term it could force the Blues to unload some salary/Stewart. Could be another Perron type opportunity this coming summer for a team. Offer up both Lander and Musil.

Scrivens and Hemsky to the Penguins at the deadline for a first rounder and a prospect.

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#17 D
February 07 2014, 10:26PM
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This Scrivens goaltending situation will make for a great Game Theory study down the road.

Four quadrants - (1) Oilers pay a lot for Scrivens and get great goaltending, (2) Oilers pay a lot for Scrivens and get poor goaltending, Oilers watch him walk and Scrivens (3) provides great goaltending elsewhere, or (4) provides poor goaltending elsewhere.

How do you price a contract when a scenario like this presents itself?

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#18 @Oilanderp
February 07 2014, 10:33PM
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DSF wrote:

If he has the gumption to dream big he will likely look elsewhere,

It was so nice when you were gone. Unfortunately it was not as easy to enjoy as the Oilers were dive-bombing headfirst into the toilet. Now they actually seem to be trying to play team defence and are getting some great goaltending. They've strung some points together and... you're back you grumpy rain cloud.

Am I not permitted to enjoy anything in this gord-forsaken world?

*shakes fist at the sky*

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#19 Oilcruzer
February 07 2014, 10:40PM
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Welcome back DSF. BTW, do you know Cam Cole?

The way I see it, Scrivens is fighting to show he's option 1 over Bryz. He's also toiled for years as the second or third option.

Here, and certainly more than anywhere else, his style fits with the Oilers style. It goes that way for goalies. Sometimes it's just a good fit.

He would be crazy to risk trying to be the guy for another team. The fans in Edmonton will cut him slack, as they have adopted him. If he goes on a Tier 1 team, there's too much pressure. Conversely, if he goes to a crap team to be their saviour, and especially one that has a down arrow *cough* Calgary *cough*, he's under a different pressure in a bad situation.

He's been the number two guy on LA. That's not what he wants.

Signing is a good deal for both sides.

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#20 srelio
February 07 2014, 10:50PM
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Scivens will want to establish himself as a starting goaltender, no one wants to sit on the bench 70 games a season. Edmonton is the first and best chance hes had at that and if he keeps playing like he is he'll get payed. Plus we've been doing a lot less losing since he got here so he shouldn't be too eager to leave town just because of our record. Sure we get out shot badly almost every game but unlike the players the only chance Scrivens gets to touch the puck is when the play is in our end. Nothing feels better as a goalie than getting way out shot and still managing to pull out the win. Hopefully he signs for a couple years at a couple mill and turns out to be as good as hes been playing.

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#21 book¡e
February 07 2014, 10:52PM
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A lot depends on the insights that the coach and GM have on the player and his fit. If everything seems good and your instincts tell you that he could be a good one, then there is no harm in signing him for 3 years, even if the cost is $3 million per.

Worst case scenerio is a low cost buyout or an expensive back up. I think the risk is worth it for a team having trouble attracting free agents.

If this guy turns out to be golden, then you are well on your way to contending. If not, no harm done.

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#22 RexLibris
February 07 2014, 10:57PM
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DSF wrote:

Teams likely in the market for goaltending next season:

Chicago

Pittsburgh

Detroit

Philadelphia

St. Louis

New Jersey

Buffalo

CALGARY

NYI

Florida

I would wager that picking up a couple of wins against Vancouver won't factor into Scrivens decision at all.

You've left Edmonton off your list, and presumably have Calgary in bold as a point of emphasis.

On your topic of Scrivens going to Calgary, something reminiscent of the Glencross issue, why not look at Burke's long history of chasing goaltending through trade and free-agency. He doesn't always do very well (Potvin, Auld, Weekes, Cloutier, Gustavsson).

This isn't to say that he wouldn't be interested in signing Scrivens, but please provide a reason why would Scrivens choose Calgary over Edmonton - without using Brian Burke as some sort of managerial deus ex machina who can simply will players to his side.

Let's look at it from a less subjective point of view:

If team A has traded to acquire backup goaltender X after his having been moved twice in less than a calendar year because neither of his previous employers felt he was capable of a starting job, what leads you to believe that after having been given a chance to prove that he is capable of being a starting goaltender, X would then decide to eschew team A's contract offer and pursue free-agency amongst a market that has otherwise been less than welcoming to this point in his career?

I don't remember you being this cynical about a player's interests or a manager's abilities so quickly.

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#23 Max
February 07 2014, 10:57PM
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Sign him - please. He has family here, he seems like a real good locker room fit, he's not a big brash know-it-all, he seems very well grounded. LA might be glamorous, but Edmonton is his hometown and wife and children would still be able to go back to LA in the off season. Grandparents all get to spend time with the kids and Oilers fans will surely embrace him fully. (I think we have already!) Stay Ben, be our hero, we needed hope, and you have given it - the best goal tending for the Oilers since Roli.

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#24 Quintana
February 07 2014, 10:57PM
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DSF wrote:

Teams likely in the market for goaltending next season:

Chicago

Pittsburgh

Detroit

Philadelphia

St. Louis

New Jersey

Buffalo

CALGARY

NYI

Florida

I would wager that picking up a couple of wins against Vancouver won't factor into Scrivens decision at all.

Out of those teams only Buffalo and NYI will be looking for starters . Scrievens wants to be a numero uno!! Are you Stupid? Oh...Welcome back DSF!!!!!

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#25 Sevenseven
February 07 2014, 11:00PM
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Bryz is playing good.

Scrivens is playing good.

No one in the nhl is banging at our door to play here.

Maybe this is a viable tandem. And you honestly have to give mac t some credit. Bryz/scrivens is so far ahead of dubnyk/labarbera. All he gave up was a third round pic, and got an asset back in hendricks! So hell sign them cheap. Save money and other tradable assets for a other holes in the team (Defense, big top six center) Bryz and scrivens would be an excellent tandem on a team with a decent defense.

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#26 The Beaker
February 07 2014, 11:03PM
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DSF wrote:

Teams likely in the market for goaltending next season:

Chicago

Pittsburgh

Detroit

Philadelphia

St. Louis

New Jersey

Buffalo

CALGARY

NYI

Florida

I would wager that picking up a couple of wins against Vancouver won't factor into Scrivens decision at all.

yes... all of those teams have spots open for #1 goalies. Not like any of them have signed goalies to longer term deals.

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#27 ugggh
February 07 2014, 11:06PM
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it was so nice while that DSF troll was gone, im done again

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#28 OilClog
February 07 2014, 11:09PM
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DSF wrote:

Teams likely in the market for goaltending next season:

Chicago

Pittsburgh

Detroit

Philadelphia

St. Louis

New Jersey

Buffalo

CALGARY

NYI

Florida

I would wager that picking up a couple of wins against Vancouver won't factor into Scrivens decision at all.

All these teams could of had Scrivens multiple times.

He's not going to sign in Calgary.

He'll sign in Edmonton if he keeps playing the way he does and enjoys the fandom he's going to receive here like nowhere else in the league ;)

You also forgot to put Vancouver on your list, Luongo won't be there. Lol.

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#29 gus1000
February 07 2014, 11:18PM
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DSF wrote:

Teams likely in the market for goaltending next season:

Chicago

Pittsburgh

Detroit

Philadelphia

St. Louis

New Jersey

Buffalo

CALGARY

NYI

Florida

I would wager that picking up a couple of wins against Vancouver won't factor into Scrivens decision at all.

Chicago - Why? Raanta and Crawford seem like a competent duo. Emery is still kicking around.

Pittsburgh - Backup, possibly fight for 25 games. Unless Fleury is traded, he is number 2

Detroit - Must have missed the guy going to the Olympics as the starter. A backup spot is there, but you must have missed Mrzac as an up and comer. Likely the backup there.

Philadelphia - Mason just signed a massive extension, starter at least until November, second worst place for a goalie to get killed behind E-town. Back up position open.

St. Louis - They have two starters right now, one is likely gone, but that only leaves a back up spot.

New Jersey - Brodeur retires, and they got this other guy, looked pretty good tonight against us... So there is a back up spot here.

Buffalo - Miller leaves, they have Enroth. Poor season, but worst team, so he is the defacto starter, but there is a competition here.

CALGARY - Exact same situation as here. Rebuilding team. Only difference is they have guys named Stepniak and Stajan to build around. We have guys like Hall and RNH. Going forward they are a year behind us after Burke guts the team at the deadline and the draft to bring in young truculence.

NYI - My guess is they back the truck up to land Miller, or Hiller. Maybe even trade for Ward. At this second there is a starting position free for next season, but Snow is bat sh&t crazy. He will make a deal.

Florida - Thomas has already stated he likes where the club is going, is thinking about sticking around. Markstrom is the guy anyone who comes in has to battle for the starter spot if Timmy T leaves. It is a possibility.

Edmonton - You forgot a town with the real only starters spot open besides cowtown. Winter sucks, but hey Spruce Grove has the same winters, he understands. He is working on that starters role now. He has a long history with Eakins, who looks like we are stuck with for awhile yet, and we have a top six that has major potential, some already that have arrived see Hall, over a ppg, RNH, every game starts looking more and more like a Toews type player, and Perron, cheaply signed, likes it here and can score. I am worried Eberle or Yak get dangled for defense, but if not, they are pretty goo too ;)

So I think we have a scenario where we are willing to spend to the cap to build a team, we have opportunity, as in he gets handed the role, and we have nowhere to go but up. I say that tongue in cheek as we all know the situation here.

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#30 **
February 07 2014, 11:22PM
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D wrote:

This Scrivens goaltending situation will make for a great Game Theory study down the road.

Four quadrants - (1) Oilers pay a lot for Scrivens and get great goaltending, (2) Oilers pay a lot for Scrivens and get poor goaltending, Oilers watch him walk and Scrivens (3) provides great goaltending elsewhere, or (4) provides poor goaltending elsewhere.

How do you price a contract when a scenario like this presents itself?

Scrivens holds all the cards really, he is getting a pay day either here or elsewhere. The oilers are going to play a chicken game until the deadline, after that they risk losing scrivens for nothing. If Scrivens doesn't get traded and walks in the summer, the Oilers will be forced to pay big time to land a top goalie, which is not a sure thing they will.

In the end, the Oilers will have to offer big money either to Scrivens or to someone available in the summer. The least risky move for the Oilers is to offer a somewhat inflated contract to Scrivens before the march trade deadline.

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#31 **
February 07 2014, 11:30PM
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ugggh wrote:

it was so nice while that DSF troll was gone, im done again

r u kidding? not even 2 hours back and he made lowetide get his panties in a bunch:

NOW, THAT'S WHAT I CALL ENTERTAINMENT!!

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#32 Chainsawz
February 07 2014, 11:32PM
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Haha, can Josh please reply to DSF's list of teams that are apparently looking for goaltending? The universe has been waiting for this moment in history.

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#33 Woogie63
February 07 2014, 11:32PM
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Yikes this seems like we keep gambling, hoping the stars align and then our goalie situation will be solved ... Dubynk all over again.

Toronto took a long look at him and chose.....Remier

LA took a long look at him and chose....Jones

I don't think either of these goalies would be my pick as our 2-3 year solution in goal.

I would offer him 1a/b money and term of $1.8M 2 years plus a team option. If he does not like it move on.

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#34 Woogie63
February 07 2014, 11:42PM
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** wrote:

Scrivens holds all the cards really, he is getting a pay day either here or elsewhere. The oilers are going to play a chicken game until the deadline, after that they risk losing scrivens for nothing. If Scrivens doesn't get traded and walks in the summer, the Oilers will be forced to pay big time to land a top goalie, which is not a sure thing they will.

In the end, the Oilers will have to offer big money either to Scrivens or to someone available in the summer. The least risky move for the Oilers is to offer a somewhat inflated contract to Scrivens before the march trade deadline.

What am missing? The guys has been passed over twice in less than 12 months. He is making "popper nhl wages" with no term.

Lots of teams are looking for a solid back up. Solid back ups are paid $1.5M and 1 or 2 years of term.

Beat the solid back up package, give him a legit chance to start, with a coach he trust, that should secure Scrivens.

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#35 Rod from Viking
February 07 2014, 11:42PM
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Well everyone is playing right into whoever is DSF, Wayne is that you? Now there is a 3 week hiatus from NHL hockey and who magically appears and on this article is involved in over 1/2 the posts, nothing like getting the numbers up. Quickie Silver its been a while as well, I've missed your upbeat positive posts as well.

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#36 David S
February 07 2014, 11:47PM
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DSF wrote:

Hi Jay (Fee).

This is Brian (Burke).

I don't have any established goaltenders on my roster for next season so, if you have any clients you think I might be interested in, or if you have any goaltending clients who would like an offer on July 1st, please let me know.

(Fee) Hahahahahaha

Ah what the heck. I know this won't be a popular opinion but welcome back man!

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#37 M22
February 08 2014, 12:25AM
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So, with the general consensus among hockey people in-the-know being that Scrivens is an uncommonly intelligent athlete, it's reasonable to assume that he will be looking as closely at our organization as keenly as the org is sizing him up.

He is, no doubt, acutely aware of his situation: young goalie, trying to establish himself as a starter, riding a wave of good 'tending, and fan-love (infatuation, really), playing for a team desperately seeking stability in goal. The obvious benefits are money and opportunity to start. But if he's even HALF as smart as they say, he will also be closely looking at other factors, such as the defence he sees in front of him (currently not very good), and goaltending coach (I'm no expert on goalie coaches, but ours doesn't seem to have what it takes to make even average goalies better - see Dubnyk's regression and poor fundamentals).

Maybe Scrivens is a long-term/big picture kinda guy. Will he be better off taking a bigger payday now with the Oilers? Or is being surrounded by quality players/coaches more advantageous for him? Correct me if I'm wrong, but this isn't the place where you come to find great goalie coaching and quality D.

It's far too early for me to decide whether I'd like the Oilers to keep him or not, but, unfortunately, MacT doesn't have the luxury of time. I just want to see this organization make moves/decisions not out of desperation.

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#38 toprightcorner
February 08 2014, 01:43AM
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DSF wrote:

Teams likely in the market for goaltending next season:

Chicago

Pittsburgh

Detroit

Philadelphia

St. Louis

New Jersey

Buffalo

CALGARY

NYI

Florida

I would wager that picking up a couple of wins against Vancouver won't factor into Scrivens decision at all.

Scrivens wants to be a starter and Edmonton can offer that. So if your saying all of these teams are a threat to sign Scrivens as a starter then I guess the available starting goaling market just got a lot bigger now that Fleury, Howard, Crawford, Halak, Elliot, and Schnieder will all be available cause they would rather sign Scrivens as their starter.

Comments like yours makes you look the opposite of smart.....not that the truth is suprising to any of us!

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#39 toprightcorner
February 08 2014, 01:57AM
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I agree with LT, wait for another 15 games at least after he has had 3 weeks to cool off and see how he does. If he plays great again and can maintain a .925 svp, then he is less likely a flash in the pan and worth signing a 2 - 3 year deal at $2.75 to $3.5. Sur it could mean you pay an additional $500k more per year but i would rater that than sign him now for a $2 -$2.75 right away and then pull a Dubnyk after the olympic break and be stuck with him for a few years.

That chance of paying more by signing him later is cheap insurance to protect from jumping inta a bad signing too soon.

after a short deal with Scrivens then I say get the defence fixed and get a power forward in the top 6 or a big 2C that can play a 2 way game as well. Once those areas are fixed we can the figure out if Scrivens is our guy or if we need to up grade that position. That decision should be at the time this current contract runs out or 1 year left as a back up.

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#40 **
February 08 2014, 02:16AM
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Woogie63 wrote:

What am missing? The guys has been passed over twice in less than 12 months. He is making "popper nhl wages" with no term.

Lots of teams are looking for a solid back up. Solid back ups are paid $1.5M and 1 or 2 years of term.

Beat the solid back up package, give him a legit chance to start, with a coach he trust, that should secure Scrivens.

This is what Scrivens has going for him: He posted an NHL record. Ask Gagner if that doesn't factor in salary negotiations.

He is currently leading the league in sv% and is top 5 in GA average.

He is at the end of a 2 year contract that paid him very little. Given his performance he is due for a raise, not because I think so but based of seeing how goalies get raises in this league.

As for your negatives (this is just me speculating): The leafs offered Reimer his first big contract after 3 years of playing pro. At that point Scrivens had only one pro season. (HE played at Cornell university 4 years, was undrafted). It seems logical the more veteran guy got more money first.

That same year Gustaffson and Reimer (2011-2012) were battling for the starting job in Toronto, Scrivens was the third string.

The next year (2012-2013) Gustafson was let go as FA and it became Reimer and Scrivens. (possibly because they thougt Reimer was ready to be a starter and saw Scrivens as a competent cheap back up, so they saved money).

Gustaffson has been a great back up for the Red wings, playing more because of injuries to Howard.

After the shortened season, both goalies had decent numbers, with Reimer having the bigger contract and the majority of the games played. I don't think it had anything to do with Scrivens, I think the leafs decided to test Reimer as the starter and ran with it. Obviously he didn't impress enough.

That brings us to the trade of Bernier for Scrivens. Bernier was a RFA, he wanted more playing time, which he was not going to get on LA, and he wanted more money, which LA couldn't afford because they gave Quick that massive 7 million contract. So LA needed a cheaper capable not rookie backup and Toronto bought into Bernier's hype. Toronto even now retains some of Scrivens' salary.

LA was never going to take Reimer at his price tag, and I guess Toronto wanted Bernier pretty bad, which says more about the leafs management than it does about Scrivens' abilities.

LA figured they could offer Scrivens what they were paying Bernier as backup. But then Martin Jones came in and dazzled. LA figured they get at least one more season with a really cheap backup and delay payment for an extra year.

LA is set for a starting goaltender for years to come, so even if Scrivens is good enough to be a starter, there was simply no room, nor money for him with the kings. Again, the situation says more about the organization than it does about Scrivens.

That's how Scrivens ends up in Edmonton, because of a chain of money saving moves orchestrated by LA. In all this, Scrivens is finishing off his first real NHL contract (according to cap geek).

So now the guy is ready for a starting job, or at least a tandem job, and a salary raise. he backs it up with an NHL record of 57 games, .922 sv% and 2.47 GAA. Pretty solid numbers for an NHL starting goaltender.

So in conclusion I disagree with you that he was passed up twice. Many in Toronto feel the leafs let go of the wrong goalie, and his departure from LA was entirely motivated by finances.

The leafs gave Bernier a 2 year contract at 2.4 and 3.4 mill with these NHL totals: 62 games, .912 sv% and 2.35 GAA.

He didn't set an NHL record, and he didn't lead the league at any point. At around the same number of games, Scrivens is the superior goalie by all counts. One more thing, Bernier at 62 games had faced 1553 shots, while Scrivens in 57 has faced 1596. not a big difference, but still a difference. Also, Bernier always played behind the defensive power house LA, while Scrivens has had the fun of doing so against two teams that leak scoring chances like a waterfall.

I'd say Scrivens is going to go for at least 2.5 million a year unless he implodes from now until season's end. Given his numbers, I don't see that happening. About Bryzeee, I'm a fan. If he accepts the role of backup/1b and get paid accordingly, he is solid, he has a career .913 sv% and 2.57 GA, plus he is durable and still young enough not to be worried about a sudden decline in performance. Plus, he might be enjoying not being the lightning rod nor the star of the freak show for once.

I apologize for the long post, didn't realize it until I was done.

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#41 Spydyr
February 08 2014, 05:20AM
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Scrivens has shown me more in his short time here then Dubnyk showed me in his long time here.

Yet, they paid Dubnyk like a starter before he earned it.I don't care if the stats guys say he has starter numbers.He was never and never will be a starter in the NHL.

Proper asset management dictates Mac-T should extend a fair offer to Scrivens before the trade deadline.My choice would be a 2-3 year term at average starter dollars.If he turns the offer down(which I think he will)trade him at the deadline.Worse case is you can take another run at him in the summer if you can't land the white whale of goaltending.

The scary part for me is they have no NHL calibre goalie signed for next season.It will most likely take an over pay to get one.

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#42 Spydyr
February 08 2014, 05:25AM
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One final thought.

GO CANADA GO!!!!

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#43 sizedoesmatter
February 08 2014, 05:42AM
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Welcome back DSF your always(mostly)wrong but hour not boring.

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#44 Woogie63
February 08 2014, 06:28AM
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** wrote:

This is what Scrivens has going for him: He posted an NHL record. Ask Gagner if that doesn't factor in salary negotiations.

He is currently leading the league in sv% and is top 5 in GA average.

He is at the end of a 2 year contract that paid him very little. Given his performance he is due for a raise, not because I think so but based of seeing how goalies get raises in this league.

As for your negatives (this is just me speculating): The leafs offered Reimer his first big contract after 3 years of playing pro. At that point Scrivens had only one pro season. (HE played at Cornell university 4 years, was undrafted). It seems logical the more veteran guy got more money first.

That same year Gustaffson and Reimer (2011-2012) were battling for the starting job in Toronto, Scrivens was the third string.

The next year (2012-2013) Gustafson was let go as FA and it became Reimer and Scrivens. (possibly because they thougt Reimer was ready to be a starter and saw Scrivens as a competent cheap back up, so they saved money).

Gustaffson has been a great back up for the Red wings, playing more because of injuries to Howard.

After the shortened season, both goalies had decent numbers, with Reimer having the bigger contract and the majority of the games played. I don't think it had anything to do with Scrivens, I think the leafs decided to test Reimer as the starter and ran with it. Obviously he didn't impress enough.

That brings us to the trade of Bernier for Scrivens. Bernier was a RFA, he wanted more playing time, which he was not going to get on LA, and he wanted more money, which LA couldn't afford because they gave Quick that massive 7 million contract. So LA needed a cheaper capable not rookie backup and Toronto bought into Bernier's hype. Toronto even now retains some of Scrivens' salary.

LA was never going to take Reimer at his price tag, and I guess Toronto wanted Bernier pretty bad, which says more about the leafs management than it does about Scrivens' abilities.

LA figured they could offer Scrivens what they were paying Bernier as backup. But then Martin Jones came in and dazzled. LA figured they get at least one more season with a really cheap backup and delay payment for an extra year.

LA is set for a starting goaltender for years to come, so even if Scrivens is good enough to be a starter, there was simply no room, nor money for him with the kings. Again, the situation says more about the organization than it does about Scrivens.

That's how Scrivens ends up in Edmonton, because of a chain of money saving moves orchestrated by LA. In all this, Scrivens is finishing off his first real NHL contract (according to cap geek).

So now the guy is ready for a starting job, or at least a tandem job, and a salary raise. he backs it up with an NHL record of 57 games, .922 sv% and 2.47 GAA. Pretty solid numbers for an NHL starting goaltender.

So in conclusion I disagree with you that he was passed up twice. Many in Toronto feel the leafs let go of the wrong goalie, and his departure from LA was entirely motivated by finances.

The leafs gave Bernier a 2 year contract at 2.4 and 3.4 mill with these NHL totals: 62 games, .912 sv% and 2.35 GAA.

He didn't set an NHL record, and he didn't lead the league at any point. At around the same number of games, Scrivens is the superior goalie by all counts. One more thing, Bernier at 62 games had faced 1553 shots, while Scrivens in 57 has faced 1596. not a big difference, but still a difference. Also, Bernier always played behind the defensive power house LA, while Scrivens has had the fun of doing so against two teams that leak scoring chances like a waterfall.

I'd say Scrivens is going to go for at least 2.5 million a year unless he implodes from now until season's end. Given his numbers, I don't see that happening. About Bryzeee, I'm a fan. If he accepts the role of backup/1b and get paid accordingly, he is solid, he has a career .913 sv% and 2.57 GA, plus he is durable and still young enough not to be worried about a sudden decline in performance. Plus, he might be enjoying not being the lightning rod nor the star of the freak show for once.

I apologize for the long post, didn't realize it until I was done.

I don't see many examples of two organization that our choosing between a second and third string, young, cheap goalie and both of them get it wrong.

My belief is it goaltending in the NHL is the most competitive job in the league (like a QB in the NFL). Teams play the guy who give them the best chance to win.

The fact is TML and LAK both took a long look at Scriven, and both chose someone else that would give him a better chance win.

With 57-75 NHL games under his belt, I don't think he has the leverage suggested in other posts. I don't see a top 15 team in the NHL that would want to start the year with Scrivens as your clear numbef 1. I think he is headed for at best a 1 a/b situation.

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#45 Mike Modano's Dog
February 08 2014, 06:36AM
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I love readng everybody's comments here.

I really like Scrivens. I have long felt the Oilers need a goaltender that plays the way Scrivens does.

'Water off his back' and 'ice in his veins' - a steady demeanour. Case in point: his play that very first game told me a lot about him. He played every bit as hard and didn't hang his head after he got lit up and the game got out of hand. There was no quit in this guy.

Also no blaming the other guys on the team...which is important here because the Oilers always have given up an inordinate amount of shots. And personally, I never want to see another goalie throw his stick in the air after a goal, and stare our defence men down after the fact. That already makes him a better fit for us than others who have played here..but this isn't about putting others down who have done their best; just showing how rare his qualities are - no matter how many games you've played in this league.

Another plus; this guy doesn't believe in lucky streaks or rituals to follow. Case in point, his NHL record. He never needed to keep things the same, or change others; you wouldn't have known whether he just played a terrible game or had a record setting performance for us. There is only one other goalie who played here with that kind of coolness - that rattled other teams' confidence (when it mattered most.). I'm not saying he belongs in the same league or has proven anything at this point, but he reminds me so much of Fuhr, watching him play. I think, given his age and the Oilers point in their rebuild, the style of team (defence) playing in front of him - I think he is the perfect fit. We're not a 'trap team' and never will be. That's just not Edmonton's game.

The Oilers also have to have someone interested in actually staying with the team and building that team long-term HERE, in Edmonton. We haven't had that forever now, when combined with those other qualities. I will say that I have no idea if he has any interest in staying here, or in staying here - long-term. I am only stating that has ruined what could have been in the past - to play for another team instead the first opportunity they had. We need somebody who would be interested in being the Oilers goalie 'long-term', if the Oiler fans can keep from being too big of a$$holes.* *'see 1982, Oilers.'

Only one player I can remember sucessfully made it through that intact. The guy who called it like it was, never let it change who he was - and chose to stay with us... That kind of thick skin is going to be necessary here, because of our passion for the team and the fact that the last line of defence is always going to be obvious, and stand out! Edmonton fans will show more adoration and heap praise and love on our goalie like few others when he is playing well, and we are intelligent enough to cut him some slack even when it isn't. But, if that play dips substantially, for some time due to how much we care we aren't exactly the easiest fans to to play in front of - so our goalie of the future will have to be mentally very strong, and strong-willed!!

I have always maintained that the Oilers need to find another goalie 'like' Grant Fuhr was when he was here. Don't hammer me for saying so, as I don't mean "really good," or 'they just need to find the 'best' goaltender!" No - I mean the Oilers, as long as they play offensive hockey and give up the so many of those five star chances we always have in doing so...NEED a goalie with that exact temperament to be successful.

Is it a coincidence that Scrivens grew up in the same area as Fuhr did, and has adopted so many of his underappreciated traits? Perhaps not... maybe he looked up to him, maybe he even went to him for advice. Heck , maybe he even got those tips from Glenn Hall himself, and Grant did the same once upon a time - I don't know! The only thing I do know is I love his approach to the game from what I've seen so far. He has never let what happened so far in the game change his approach. His one and only concern - not giving up the next one...and he'll never give up on a goal! Because you never know which goal could actually sink you - even in an apparent loss, that is so important to have; even moreso with the offensive power TO COME BACK in any game as the Oilers now have - once again.

To me he isn't only the best fit now but to me in my humble opinion, the best one we've had since the days when #31 wasn't in the rafters, but on the ice.

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#46 Fresh Mess
February 08 2014, 07:17AM
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I think it will take a Pisani deal (4 years, 10 million$) to sign him before he hits UFA. It's a roll of the dice either way. I think both parties will go for the sure thing. 2.5x4 gets it done.

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#47 Cameron
February 08 2014, 08:05AM
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Hey DSF

I don't often agree but always read your posts. Don't be a stranger.

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#48 Thumby
February 08 2014, 08:20AM
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Fresh Mess wrote:

I think it will take a Pisani deal (4 years, 10 million$) to sign him before he hits UFA. It's a roll of the dice either way. I think both parties will go for the sure thing. 2.5x4 gets it done.

For some reason, I think you hit the nail on the head - 4 x 2.5 probably gets it done.

Its bit risky for us but as a worst case scenario, he's looking good enough to be a hell of a backup. In that light, its a $500K overpay if he ends up as our #2.

The other thing I like is he's looking HUNGRY to be a #1, so even if we end up bringing in another goalie with a bit more pedigree, he's going to push them hard for play time.

I think I could come to like that goaltending situation here...its been 30 years since the last time we had that!

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#49 Serious Gord
February 08 2014, 08:23AM
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As has been noted above Scrivens has been passed over by two other teams; he was undrafted; he has played precious few games.

I will reiterate: Roman Turek.

The risk of screwing up and paying too much is far greater than missing a diamond in the rough.

Let him play out the season and then - if he remains solid - offer him a contract. Let's see how he does against top flite opposition in the last ten games of the year.

That said I agree with rob brown: if a team comes looking to trade for him before the deadline to fill a need - trade him.

....

Good to see DSF re-engaging in the fray. I wondered why he had gone on sabbatical. I loled at his saying he'd been away on Elba. I would laugh even harder were that actually true.

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#50 pelhem grenville
February 08 2014, 08:25AM
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Q...I'm more happy to see you on here than ever before and I'm happy to see you tapping out your good old takes on all things in the Ballet...moreover I'm here to say if there ever was a place that needs a troll it's here and how could anyone deny the fact that if a board needs a troll why not have THE Hall of Fame Troll in our midst...

LT...if Scrivens stays he will need/want some heavy money to do so...I have a feeling that MacT will do his best to not overpay but if the 2 goalies walk and leave it was always going to be that way anyway...no goalie will want to stay here or entertain the idea of coming here until MacT delivers Defence(.)

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