JUSTIN SCHULTZ: FRAMING THE ISSUE

Lowetide
March 30 2014 10:43AM

schultz common

The Edmonton Oilers love Justin Schultz. It's obvious, made clear in all kinds of ways. The main one has to do with time on ice—Schultz has played more minutes this season than all but 50 NHL defensemen. Schultz has not delivered enough in those situations. What will the Oilers do?

TOI EVS, 2013-14 OILERS BLUE

  1. Justin Schultz 19:05
  2. Andrew Ference 17:48
  3. Jeff Petry 17:38
  4. Phil Larsen 16:33
  5. Martin Marincin 16:19
  6. Anton Belov 15:25
  7. Ladislav Smid 15:20
  8. Nick Schultz 14:29
  9. Mark Fraser 13:50
  10. Oscar Klefbom 13:32

Interesting to see who the coach actually values, isn't it? When we discuss 'best Oilers defensemen' this season, it's likely the answers will have a wide range. I'm onside with Petry, and yet Dallas Eakins—given the choice—would rather use Schultz for two additional minutes per game. Schultz also leads in total time on ice, time on ice per game, total shifts per game and length of shift.

Justin Schultz is the Oilers top defensive option at even strength and on the power play.

justin schultz player card mar 30

Schultz is getting enormous icetime, his Corsi Rel for 5x5 % is 42.9 and that's about three per cent worse than his mates. In summary, the Oilers have in effect taken a player who is not close to their best one and entrusted him with 19 minutes a night (or, one period per game at evens) to make a difference.

And this is his second season doing this, so we're creating a scene that is value negative. We're not 200 games into his career, but Justin Schultz has some issues as a possession player—and that should be an area of strength.

SO?

petry capture

The Oilers have two RFA players this summer of note along the blue.

  • Justin Schultz (Annual average salary, including bonuses): $3,775,000
  • Jeff Petry (Annual average salary, including bonuses): $1,750,000

Petry signed a shorter term deal last night for a lower amount, and now that the bridge deal is over he'll look to cash in. Schultz had a base salary of $925,000 this season, but it's extremely unlikely Edmonton will be able to sign him for a reasonable number. Last September, Jonathan Willis looked at signing Schultz long term and came up with a 7-year deal at $4.75 million per season.

The article is here

Schultz has not enjoyed a breakout season and the actual dollar amount might be less, but how much less? If Edmonton wants to land a big time defender—let's say Andrei Markov—to bridge the gap between the kids and the now, how much is too much?

And if they do land Markov, and sign Schultz long term for $4 million a year (I'm estimating here), then is there enough left for Petry?

WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?

hayek12

I've been operating under the assumption that Edmonton plans to proceed with Petry-Schultz as the RH side of their blueline. However, with Aaron Ekblad in their sights and a need to improve the LH side of the blue with a Markov (or Hainsey, or both), Jeff Petry may be the player who feels the squeeze.

Can the Oilers afford to sign both Schultz and Petry long term, while also adding a Markov and an Ekblad? I don't think they can, and if it follows that Justin Schultz is part of the rebuild, where then does that put Jeff Petry?

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Lowetide has been one of the Oilogosphere's shining lights for over a century. You can check him out here at OilersNation and at lowetide.ca. He is also the host of Lowdown with Lowetide weekday mornings 10-noon on TSN 1260.
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#1 Al Low
March 30 2014, 10:53AM
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Both guys play a soft brand of hockey. Ultimately, I think Schultz is the guy you keep because of bigger upside. People have to remember he's only played 2 years and has been forced to be a top 2 guy because of all the bonehead moves made by Tambellini and 6Rings. For the club to be successful, they don't need both Petry and Schultz long term. One will suffice and I think Schultz is the guy. I think Perry will be packaged in a trade at some point.

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#2 Naky
March 30 2014, 11:02AM
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They can not afford to deal or mess around with Petry. He's in over his head right now as he's expected to be the #1 or 2 in the absence of one right now, but there's no question that he's a good young d-man who would still be in the top 3-4 on many other NHL teams and we can't really say that about any other guy we have right now.

On many nights he's still easily better than Schultz and it's going to be one heck of a sticky issue for MacT to work with. If Schultz gets more money than Petry without the numbers to back it, you're probably going to begin the process of souring that relationship. And of course, if you don't give Schultz the money I suppose he would feel entitled to you start the process of burning that bridge too.

Schultz needs another 2 year bridge contract if he wants big numbers and I'd be comfortable with Petry getting Smid's contract to be honest.

One thing for sure: management can not give Schultz more money in this situation. The last thing we need is another Tom Gilbert contract scenario.

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#3 D
March 30 2014, 11:03AM
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I was really hoping that Justin Schultz would be this generation's version of my favourite hockey player of all time (or at least a reasonable facsimile). Still hoping, but as of right now, the trend lines are not pointing in that direction.

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#4 Spoils
March 30 2014, 11:04AM
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The upside Schultz brings to the table is just too big to ignore. We can't let him go just because he is being mishandled by the current mgt. Let's fire the mgt and not give away our assets. Look how tough it is to get a top notch D right now. What is the market asking?

Also, despite all the chatter about our 3 first overall forwards, I think the D will be the reason the Oil win in the 2018-2020 range, and I think Schultz will be a big part of that D:

Ekblad, Nurse, Kelfbom, Schultz

I think that makes a compelling D core once they mature. maybe it is not until 2020, but Hall will still only be around 28 at that time, sooo let's keep our eye on the real prize (Stanley)

GOil!

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#5 Alex
March 30 2014, 11:12AM
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Naky wrote:

They can not afford to deal or mess around with Petry. He's in over his head right now as he's expected to be the #1 or 2 in the absence of one right now, but there's no question that he's a good young d-man who would still be in the top 3-4 on many other NHL teams and we can't really say that about any other guy we have right now.

On many nights he's still easily better than Schultz and it's going to be one heck of a sticky issue for MacT to work with. If Schultz gets more money than Petry without the numbers to back it, you're probably going to begin the process of souring that relationship. And of course, if you don't give Schultz the money I suppose he would feel entitled to you start the process of burning that bridge too.

Schultz needs another 2 year bridge contract if he wants big numbers and I'd be comfortable with Petry getting Smid's contract to be honest.

One thing for sure: management can not give Schultz more money in this situation. The last thing we need is another Tom Gilbert contract scenario.

Like we'd be any better with both Tom Gilbert and Jeff Petry. I'll take Schultz over both of those guys any day.

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#6 Dave
March 30 2014, 11:14AM
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Now they're signing Markov? You're saying like its a foregone conclusion. Quite the assumption.

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#7 VK63
March 30 2014, 11:17AM
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Ahhh the Oiler conundrum. It's not IF they will pay for potential its just how much. The realization of that potential is where the organizational abyss leaps out.

Player development at the NHL level.

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#8 RexHolez
March 30 2014, 11:23AM
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Anyone else tired about reading about oiler players "potential" and "long term contracts that will eventually be god value"

Lets start getting "proven talent" around here. Potential doesn't seem to be working out.

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#9 Old Timer
March 30 2014, 11:54AM
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IMO J Schultz is one of the few players on the team whose play has improved this year. Still a long, long way to go but he is only around 120 games into his career.

If they can only keep one of Schultz or Petry, I would keep Shultz. A lot more upside and potential to his game.

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#10 15w40
March 30 2014, 12:06PM
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I would say the only circumstance that Markov comes to Edmonton is on a massive overpay.

A player in his position would likely rather be a bit contributor even a 12 to 15 minutes a night on a contending team than relied on heavily on an infinibuild scenario.

The Oilers look primed to screw themselves out of Ekblad as well. The Sabres might pass on him but I can't imagine the Panthers will.

If the Oilers all of the sudden find a groove and string together even a .500 record in the last games they will probably surpass Florida on the draft chart.

Schultz should not be an untouchable when they are searching for a proven top 2 defenseman or a heavier centreman. The most currency the Oilers have right now is in young defensemen.

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#11 Dog Train
March 30 2014, 12:15PM
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Flushing Petry at this point right now would be a mistake in my opinion. If he was a necessary piece in a deal for an upgrade on the blueline then sure but otherwise it makes no sense to trade our best player at our weakest position. He's not a top-pairing guy but he's the best that we have right now. Which means we'll probably trade him and continue to throw teenagers into the deep end and hope they learn to swim.

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#12 speeds
March 30 2014, 12:18PM
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LT (or anyone else):

Do you find it remotely plausible that, if EDM has to choose between Petry and Schultz (I'm not sure they do, but for the sake of argument), that they would choose to keep Petry, believing that (a) he's the better player today, and potentially could remain so going forward (b) he's likely to be cheaper since he's unlikely to put up the point totals of Schultz and (c) Schultz may carry more trade value than Petry?

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#13 hankthetank
March 30 2014, 12:32PM
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what is this "upside and potential" stuff? an upside for Schultz would be an extra 40 lbs of muscle and a concentrated dose of nasty bastard. jmho.

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#14 Sevenseven
March 30 2014, 01:15PM
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Markov wants a 4 year deal. I think it is too long for a 35 year old defenseman, but the oil sure could use him. The oil are in a tough position with legitimate talent coming (Nurse, maybe Ekblad) and just breaking in, and no real talented veterans to show them the way. The Ference and Gagner dollar amounts might really bite Macts and really restrict his ability to fix the defense situation. To bad they love Schultz so much. I have a feeling he might get overpaid to stay here.

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#15 dougtheslug
March 30 2014, 01:19PM
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"In summary, the Oilers have in effect taken a player who is not close to their best one and entrusted him with 19 minutes a night (or, one period per game at evens) to make a difference. "

By "the Oilers", I assume you mean the coach.

What does it all mean?

That the Oilers players and their fans have been subjected to slightly less than NHL calibre coaching for the duration of this lamentable, forgettable season.

And if we get more of the same next year, expect more of the same.

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#16 michael
March 30 2014, 01:20PM
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speeds wrote:

LT (or anyone else):

Do you find it remotely plausible that, if EDM has to choose between Petry and Schultz (I'm not sure they do, but for the sake of argument), that they would choose to keep Petry, believing that (a) he's the better player today, and potentially could remain so going forward (b) he's likely to be cheaper since he's unlikely to put up the point totals of Schultz and (c) Schultz may carry more trade value than Petry?

I believe that JS is going to be traded to the Flyers this summer. The Flyers blue line is so slow and cannot move the puck at all.

The Oilers need a second line center in return. Philly has Giroux and Brayden Shenn as their 1-2. Coutourier is the guy they can afford to trade. The have Scott Laughton. They need a more reliable 2 way center on their 3rd line.

I really think that come draft day JS is a Flyer.

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#17 ColourMeImpressed
March 30 2014, 01:20PM
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Markov? You've gotten a soft head with that soft heart! The last old star we signed was a boat anchor. Then there's the cautionary tale of Gonchar in Ottawa.

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#18 Veritas
March 30 2014, 01:34PM
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Dave wrote:

Now they're signing Markov? You're saying like its a foregone conclusion. Quite the assumption.

No kidding, and is that old f@rt our best option? If so... Yikes. I'd go for a mid ranger in age, if possible, and wait it out. Markova would be an error. But 6ringz loves him. I'm so confused and frightened.

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#19 Oilers G- Nations Poet Laureate
March 30 2014, 01:35PM
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JS has shown next to nothing to deserve a 4-4.5M/yr deal.

I'm thinking more along the lines of 3yr/9M. 2.25,3,3.75.

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#20 a lg dubl dubl
March 30 2014, 01:40PM
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Petry has drove me nuts this year, chasing/looking at the puck instead of covering his man in front of the net, causing more goals against than I care to count. Im not laying all the problems of this season on him hes just been a bog part of the problem imo.

Shultz, same thing could be said about him at the beginning of the season, does seem to have leveled off the last month or so, more than Petry has.

Comes down to the all mighty dollar, if one of them can live with a bridge contract for 2 yrs, ala Subban, then sign that guy and trade the other.

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#21 Guy Lafleur
March 30 2014, 01:51PM
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Why Markov ..hes skating on one leg , if not for PK covering his butt hed be back in the KHL .Hainsey another waste of money how is he an upgrade on ANY defenceman we have now ?? The only way to get legitimate help is to put a super package together and pry Weber outta Nashville or do something with Toronto and get DION .

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#22 RexHolez
March 30 2014, 01:51PM
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I say we sign JSchultz to an entry level 2 way deal. I saw more out of brad hunt in pre season than I have from JSchultz all year.

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#23 Dan
March 30 2014, 01:55PM
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Everyone is so impatient. All we gotta do is wait til Nurse and Klefbom are 26-27 years old. Give it time guys only 8 more years

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#24 HardBoiledOil
March 30 2014, 02:17PM
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i'm OK if Petry gets moved. especially if we add Ekblad. Petry would get us the best return of all the defensemen we have not named Justin Schultz, who i suspect they will sign long term. problem is though, going with green d-men like Ekblad, Marincin and Klefbom, as well as a relatively inexperienced Schultz could not be the best situation to be in. with Ference already here, maybe we can replace Petry and Fraser with better upgrades either with a trade and/or UFA signing? just my opinion.

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#25 Krusher
March 30 2014, 03:49PM
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dougtheslug wrote:

"In summary, the Oilers have in effect taken a player who is not close to their best one and entrusted him with 19 minutes a night (or, one period per game at evens) to make a difference. "

By "the Oilers", I assume you mean the coach.

What does it all mean?

That the Oilers players and their fans have been subjected to slightly less than NHL calibre coaching for the duration of this lamentable, forgettable season.

And if we get more of the same next year, expect more of the same.

Never should have let Tom Rennie go. He managed players ice time more appropriately than anyone we've had the last 5 years.

Funny how he is good enough to be the right hand man to that guy in Detroit who also coached Team Canada but wasn't the solution here.... But, what do I know. The trend here is to hire coaches who've never done it before in the worlds best league, and stiffle any creativity any of the players have for the sake of drilling home system play like gap control last year or swarm this year....

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#26 oilfan 9
March 30 2014, 03:50PM
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i feel like Schultz is going to ask for more money than he deserves. He just seems like the type of player that cares about himself more than his team. He left Anaheim so he could get more minutes and more money somewhere else, and I've never once seen him stick up for his team mates. In fact i've seen him look the other way more times than i'd like to count. I think he's going to be a great player and i'd sign him, but he needs to show some character.

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#27 oilers
March 30 2014, 03:50PM
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Dave wrote:

Now they're signing Markov? You're saying like its a foregone conclusion. Quite the assumption.

As well as putting ehkbad on the roster.

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#28 flyfish1168
March 30 2014, 04:10PM
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I hate the thought of signing someone as old and crippled as Markov. He would be the 75cents to he dollar return or worst.

Justin to me is plain and simply overrated. He can't win battles in front or behind his own net. Puck retrieval he is scared to take a hit to retrieve it, maybe he is hurt. 3rd pairing PP specialist on a good team. He does have up side.

Jeff is our best two way defense men. He gets little help or appreciation. Without him we would be worst.

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#29 Digger
March 30 2014, 04:25PM
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Maybe it's just me, but by my eye Schultz has looked a lot more steady in the 2nd half of this season than the first half.

At any rate, I think there'll be plenty of room for both because I'm betting the Oilers will be spending the summer trying to overhaul the makeup of their top two lines, not so much chasing down that mythical "#1 dman" and paying him the amount of salary that would preclude Petry from being here.

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#30 The Last Big Bear
March 30 2014, 05:42PM
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You guys are such worry warts.

Lowe knows what he's doing. If he offers a guy way too much money based on potential, and the guy doesn't deliver, he'll just do what he did with Comrie and ask for the money back.

Its that kind of next-level thinking that got the brain trust the reputation they enjoy today.

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#31 billythebullet
March 30 2014, 06:03PM
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Lets keep both. J.shultz is due for a bridge contract. not 6mill like the golden boys up front. Petry shouldn't cost us a lot more then smid did, because lets remember, these r players struggling on a last place team, not eric karrlson or p.k subban. Just my opinion.

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#32 Dan
March 30 2014, 06:35PM
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Can oilers afford to sign both petry and Schultz?? Is that a real question?? The worst team in hockey might not be able to afford 2 of their dman?? Haha wtf!

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#33 HardBoiledOil
March 30 2014, 06:53PM
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Dan wrote:

Can oilers afford to sign both petry and Schultz?? Is that a real question?? The worst team in hockey might not be able to afford 2 of their dman?? Haha wtf!

actually the worst team in hockey is Buffalo....maybe the worst run organization in hockey, give or take the Islanders....

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#34 oilerfan
March 30 2014, 06:53PM
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Why all the talk about prying weber or phaneuf out from their teams? Like they will be the big answer difference maker for what the cost would be. They are both currently on better teams than the Oilers and can't lift those teams into the playoffs.

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#35 Dan
March 30 2014, 06:55PM
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HardBoiledOil wrote:

actually the worst team in hockey is Buffalo....maybe the worst run organization in hockey, give or take the Islanders....

I meant worst team in hockey this decade, not just this year. We have no competition

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#36 HardBoiledOil
March 30 2014, 07:06PM
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^it's what happens when you do a supposed "full rebuild"....

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#37 Dan
March 30 2014, 07:23PM
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^ call it what you want. This team sucks

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#38 Jakester
March 30 2014, 07:29PM
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Someone PLEASE start the "Lowe must go" chant. Please....?

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#39 Gk1980
March 30 2014, 08:17PM
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So, typical oiler game. Will a stud defencemen be the priority this summer? What is the one thing the oilers could do that would have the biggest impact? They lack in so many. Another night of fast forwarding the game watching the opposition run up the score.

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#40 Ron
March 30 2014, 08:26PM
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In stead of throwing jerseys on the ice lets chant hit hit hit Finnish your check how hard can that be

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#41 GoofyGoon69
March 30 2014, 08:28PM
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Krusher wrote:

Never should have let Tom Rennie go. He managed players ice time more appropriately than anyone we've had the last 5 years.

Funny how he is good enough to be the right hand man to that guy in Detroit who also coached Team Canada but wasn't the solution here.... But, what do I know. The trend here is to hire coaches who've never done it before in the worlds best league, and stiffle any creativity any of the players have for the sake of drilling home system play like gap control last year or swarm this year....

Funny you guys say that now. The last time he was here you guys were like: Why aren't you playing the kids more!? Now suddenly you adore him? Cute

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#42 HardBoiledOil
March 30 2014, 08:33PM
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^Renney wouldn't make much of a difference.

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#43 Quintana
March 30 2014, 08:37PM
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How come Taylor Hall hasn't ask to be trade it yet?

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#44 HardBoiledOil
March 30 2014, 09:07PM
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^if we don't start winning soon, he might!

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#45 The Last Big Bear
March 30 2014, 10:36PM
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Quintana wrote:

How come Taylor Hall hasn't ask to be trade it yet?

He's been playing like someone who has already asked for a trade.

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#46 Ryan2
March 30 2014, 11:58PM
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Neither player should break the cap, but if someone makes a silly offer for Schultz (highly unlikely based on this season) I would let him solicit other offers to see how the rest of the league values him just just like MacT should have done with Gagner last year. While Petry does not have the offensive ability, he is a much better all around d-man than Schultz.

As far as upside goes, Schultz may have already shown us the best of what he has to offer. To be honest, he is better suited to the Eastern conference, or at least someplace other than the Pacific Division where he is too small, soft, and defensively challenged to capitalize on his "potential". This team needs more than a PP specialist right now.

I feel sorry for him, to be honest, as the organization played him up as the next Paul Coffey on the back end which meant he had to play in the NHL right away. Looking at how much better Marincin and even Klefbom are, he would have likely benefited from a season or two with Nelson on the farm before jumping into the big leagues (which is what a good organization would have done).

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#47 Hoozonphirst
March 31 2014, 02:43AM
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Justin Schultz should have a testicular enhancement surgery in the coming long off-season. Because of the utter lack of defence or physical component to his game I think he should make minimum wage. If the brain-trust think he is the next Coffey then they are on drugs. Another sissy college D man they don't need. Move him. He is part of the reason our season is about to end early again. Sadly my sister has bigger balls than Schultz.

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#48 pkam
March 31 2014, 09:23AM
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RexHolez wrote:

Anyone else tired about reading about oiler players "potential" and "long term contracts that will eventually be god value"

Lets start getting "proven talent" around here. Potential doesn't seem to be working out.

Getting "proven talent"? We are having problem getting just "potential".

You speak like all the "proven talents" are lining to join the Oilers. Perhaps you can make it happen if you were the GM.

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#49 pkam
March 31 2014, 09:49AM
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Dan wrote:

I meant worst team in hockey this decade, not just this year. We have no competition

Since 2000-01, NYI made the playoff 4 times and lost all in 1st round. 2 GM in Mike Milbury and Garth Snow (not counting the 2 months of Neil Smith), and I believe they have 7-8 head coaches.

Florida Panthers make the playoff once and out in 1st round. I believe they have 6 GM and 7 coaches.

Winnipeg Jets (Atlantic Thrashers before 2011-12) made the playoff once and out n 1st round. I believe they have 3 GM and 6 coaches over the course.

Oilers made the playoff 3 times and went to the cup final once. Have 3 GMs and 5 coaches.

Not sure how you come up with the conclusion that the Oilers are worse than those 3 teams in this decade.

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#50 Harry2
March 31 2014, 01:21PM
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In what universe is J Schultz worth 4 mil per season. Good lord that is just assinine. 2 years 2mil per year tops

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