ANOTHER NUGE?

Lowetide
April 02 2014 04:59PM

reinhartsam

For several months now, a conversation involving Sam Reinhart often ends up with the young man being compared to Ryan Nugent-Hopkins. Is that accurate?

gregor reinhart

Sam Reinhart's scouting report does in fact include a lot of things we read about the Nuge. Cerebral, creative, sublime passer. One area that Reinhart gets nicked is skating, although RNH also got that criticism from some early on.

If they are similar players, they should have similar numbers, right?

BOXCARS

Reinhard boxcars

They're actually a really nice match by the boxcars -- this could be two seasons by the same player. They're a match.

SCORING BY DISCIPLINE: EVENS

reinhart evens

HUGE difference at even strength for each player. We know from the earlier look at Reinhart, Bennett and Draisaitl there's not that big a gap between those three players, so the Nuge number appears to be the curio. In the NHL so far, Nuge has scored 59% of his NHL points at evens (Taylor Hall 71% by comparison), but in RNH's final junior season it represented only 44%. 

Reinhart scored 60% of his points this season at even strength.

SCORING BY DISCIPLINE: POWER PLAY

reinhard power play

56% of the Nuge's points in his draft year came on the power play, compared to Reinhart's 38%. That's a significant difference. Nuge's Red Deer team scored 80PP goals, 7 shorthanded goals and 181 at even strength. Reinhart's team scored 62PP goals, 5 shorthanded goals and 168 at even strength. 

RNH was part of 74% of the Rebels PP scoring, 64.5%, so much of the difference appears to have come in team success. All of this is interesting, but without TOI totals I'm not sure how much we can say with authority. It does seem clear based on the splits that the Nuge is a more effective power-play center and Reinhart scored more at even strength. It COULD imply that Reinhart is in fact a better offensive player. I'm not certain we can state that as a fact.

SIZE

They're pretty much the same, their WHL pages say they were both 6.0, and Nuge's 173 pounds trails Reinhart by 10 pounds. I'm not sure if these are absolutely accurate but it's worth noting.


WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?

glass door

Reading the situation incorrectly can make a man look like an idiot. We don't know the TOI for either player—at even strength or on the power play—and the differences in their scoring totals may not reflect actual ability. I do recall the Rebels rolling four lines at evens during Nuge's final season in Red Deer. That could explain what we're looking at here.

Having said that, it's a very curious item. It makes sense that you'd like an even-strength scorer over a power-play specialist, and that would favor Reinhart in this case.

Sam Reinhart is an interesting prospect. 


pronman reinhart

C2a6955161684b5e3189319acfa5ebe4
Lowetide has been one of the Oilogosphere's shining lights for over a century. You can check him out here at OilersNation and at lowetide.ca. He is also the host of Lowdown with Lowetide weekday mornings 10-noon on Team 1260.
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#1 yegCopywriter
April 02 2014, 05:30PM
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Matheson has been talking Ekblad or Draisaitl for a while, but I don't think there's any way you can argue Draisaitl is better than Reinhart. If Ekblad is gone and Reinhart is there, you have to take Reinhart.

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#2 Walter Sobchak
April 02 2014, 08:31PM
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I think Yakupov is going to be just fine.

Having said that, I can't figure out why everyone keeps including Yakupov in trade deals??

The kids ankle is broke, the year he had puts his worth at an absolute low.

Stop thinking GM's are stupid!

Stop trading our junk to the Predators for one of the best defensmen in the NHL.

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#3 Senator Theo
April 02 2014, 05:05PM
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That guy has too much cream in his coffee.

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#4 BC BOY
April 02 2014, 08:21PM
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I was heavily leaning for the Oilers to draft Ekblad but the more I watch Maricin, Klefbom and hear about Nurses season I think they will be alright on the backend.

The Oilers desperately need another center that can drive the play. And a 1-2 punch of Nuge and Reinhart, bennet and draisitl really excites me! End of the day the oilers are either getting a stud center or stud d so its a win win!

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#5 Czar
April 02 2014, 05:40PM
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The kid will be a Sabre

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#6 Senator Theo
April 02 2014, 05:14PM
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mesa wrote:

it was latte .

Maybe if he left a little earlier, he wouldn't have to hurry so much and wouldn't be latte.

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#7 Manfly
April 02 2014, 05:28PM
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i'm still OK with us picking Reinhart. and i don't care if he's "only" 6' 1" 185, he'll likely get a bit bigger before he stops growing. he's a great talent and will likely be a great 1-2 with Nuge.

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#8 Sliderule
April 02 2014, 05:50PM
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Reinhart is not undersized.

He is 6-1 and 183 lbs at 18 which is about the same as Hall was in draft year. The Nuge was at least 10 lbs lighter and with a slimmer build.

Reinhart has put up monster playoff numbers against a very good team.He also was relied on at WJC which the Nuge did not make.

Unfortunately he will most likely be gone before the oilers pick.

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#9 The Crystal Ball
April 02 2014, 08:45PM
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For those stating 6'1 and eventual 200-205 pounds is too small for a Center. Please look at the Centers I list in the past 15 years. Size is great but I would take the best player available and grab size on the wings. I am not saying Reinhart or Bennett are going to be as good but I wouldn't cross someone off because of an inch or two.

I also think that RNH is developing well and will be a great player one day. Can't teach his intelligence and he has great snapshot. Speaking of a guy with intelligence and a great shot.........

Sakic (5'11) Yzerman (6') Forsberg (6') Datsyuk (5'11) Crosby (5'11) Toews (6'2) Kane (5'10) Sedin (6'1) B Richards (5'11) Giroux (5'11) St. Louis (5'8) Duchene (5'11)

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#10 Oilers89
April 02 2014, 10:00PM
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I apologize if someone has mentioned this but: the problem isn't exactly size on this team as much as it is the players being young enough that they don't have their man strength yet. Passing on Reinhart just because he isn't huge is a mistake. If he does top out at Hall's size he shouldn't have a problem battling against anyone. If we want size that is going to be useful, then I suggest trading for it because even a kid of Draisaitl's size is not going to be stronger than an NHL veteran. If we have to wait for a player to fill out I would prefer that it is the better player.

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#11 Naky
April 02 2014, 05:23PM
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Yeah, sure, why not. Let's stay small. It's been working so well for us these past few years, we may as well keep doing it.

Excuse me, Mr. Einstein, what was the definition of insanity again?

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#12 admiralmark
April 02 2014, 10:12PM
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I would not be the least bit upset with Reinhart, Draistl or Bennet as the Oilers pick this year. This team needs a 2C almost as much as D. I almost think more because of whats already in the pipeline.

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#13 Ianf
April 02 2014, 05:52PM
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Is bennet not like 8 months younger? In a tougher league? With sandpaper in his game?

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#14 Max
April 02 2014, 05:34PM
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Just what we DON'T need - another undersized "goal scoring" forward. We have had (and still have) our share of them, and look where they've gotten us. A MAN, not a kid, a MAN, a D MAN, with size, experience and a proven track record. THAT'S what we need. I have to shake my head at some of the articles on this site - are you all obtuse or are there some of you out there that agree with me? We need the 3 esses. SKILL, SIZE and SPEED. PLEASE.

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#15 Manfly
April 02 2014, 05:46PM
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Max wrote:

Just what we DON'T need - another undersized "goal scoring" forward. We have had (and still have) our share of them, and look where they've gotten us. A MAN, not a kid, a MAN, a D MAN, with size, experience and a proven track record. THAT'S what we need. I have to shake my head at some of the articles on this site - are you all obtuse or are there some of you out there that agree with me? We need the 3 esses. SKILL, SIZE and SPEED. PLEASE.

and @Naky....do you think Reinhart has finished growing at 17? if you do, then give your head a shake! i went from 6 feet and 165 at 17 to 6' 2" and 195 by the time i was 22! Reinhart like most his age have not stopped growing yet and, if Ekblad was gone and we had a chance to get Reinhart and passed, and he grew into a 6'2" or 6'3" 200 pound center, which we need by the way, right? then every Oiler hockey board would be constantly whining that we DIDN'T take him!

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#16 sintaxi
April 02 2014, 05:10PM
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I can understand people excitement for Ekblad but Reinhart is the guy to take if he is available. Top end centers are so hard to acquire. Better to draft centers and find other means to fill the gaps on the blue line.

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#17 Al Low
April 02 2014, 05:53PM
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Ekblad and Reinhart are the players with the least amount of risk in this draft. I'm not a scout but both guys seem like they will be excellent players for their respective teams in the future.

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#18 The Crystal Ball
April 02 2014, 09:00PM
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Kevin wrote:

You need size with one of your top 2 centres

Signed,

The Colorado Avalanche, New Jersey Devils, Detroit Red Wings and Chicago Blackhawks

2000- Present

I would love to have a big Center, but one with skill. Eric Lindros was traded for a half dozen guys and little known apter Forsberg became the best player. Jason Bonsignore had size too.

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#19 kale
April 02 2014, 08:55PM
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Oilerboy1112 wrote:

When RNH gets an assist or a goal in Rexall do people boo him or are my ears messed up?

Your ears are messed up, they are saying Nugeeeeeeeeee

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#20 Oiler Al
April 02 2014, 11:12PM
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Will wrote:

So, in the list of upcoming free agents that could make the team better, and there are certainly a few, which every other team in the league is going to look at signing, including the ones they currently play for, a couple of names keep popping up: Legwand and Stasny could be great additions to help balance out our top 6 and improve our centre depth issues. Markov, Nikitin both sound like they will command big overpays if they even actually hit the free agent market, but likely will not be the ultimate D solution the fans are clamoring for. And then there are a few wingers who's names get mentioned as maybe ways to improve our toughness and two way play? Names like Wingles and Downie. But the one name no one is saying, a name that is kind of ironic, is Heatly.

The guy is 33, a giant, kind of a dick, and is coming off a huge money contract with low, low production. This guy is going to come at such a value. Does anyone out there see the Oilers making a pitch for this guy?

You said it yourself, the guy is a dick, dont need another one, have one behind the bench already.

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#21 Stack Pad Save
April 03 2014, 08:16AM
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GCW wrote:

The answer may be draft Reinhardt and trade RNH for defensive help or a bigger two way centre.

So you plan on rebuilding again? You liked the last 3 years with a rookie top line center?

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#22 revingev
April 03 2014, 08:24AM
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Don't see where some of you can feel RNH is not a able 1st line centre. Still a top 15 1st line center in this league IMO right now and probably is playing an 2nd line centre would be top 3.

RNH had a string of a few bad defensive lapses but on this team even the great players will fall apart due to confidence, systems breakdowns etc..

RNH and Hall are the least of this team's worries. Having Sam Reinhart as a 2nd line centre will free up space for RNH on that first line. Currently all the best checking forwards and/or defence line up against RNH on most occasions so no wonder. A guy like Malkin and/or Crosby get that chore split between the two of them. That is why you need two elite center's to play the top 2 lines.

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#23 Fasteddy
April 02 2014, 06:27PM
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I've watched a significant number of Reinhart's games, and I can't fathom that there's a better prospect elsewhere. He is the best forward in the WHL by a mile, (yes at this age even), and the play almost never ends on his stick. Draisaitl should not be mentioned in the same breath, (keep in mind I'm referring to NOW, I'm no expert on forecasting these guys). If the Oilers have a chance to draft Reinhart, they almost can't go wrong. Ekblad scares me; is he three or four years from being a number one/two dman? Will he ever be the "Mr Everything" dman? (by most accounts he isn't dominant physically, which certainly brings into question whether he's an ace or a guy that can run the pp down the road). Don't get me wrong; no one would be happier than I if he was the next Doughty, but boy there have been a lot of highly regarded dmen that take far longer, if ever, to turn into that kind of player.

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#24 seanjohn667
April 02 2014, 09:04PM
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we are picking no later than 4th. we are either getting a top pairing, horse D or a 1 or 2C. Shouldn't go wrong. Just have to wait. ugh

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#25 Step Daddy J
April 02 2014, 06:21PM
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The 2014 NHL Draft Is Getting More Interesting By The Minute ! I can't wait for the draft lottery . I'm so excited . Reinhart , Ekblad , Leon , Bennet , We Can't Lose !!

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#26 The Crystal Ball
April 02 2014, 09:35PM
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Kevin wrote:

Toews is a big centre. I don't know who those other teams are have they won a cup lately?

So Toews at 6'2 - 207 is big but 6'1 205 is Small?

I forgot to mention the Bruins when they won as you didn't watch hockey past 5 years ago. They won with Bergeron listed at the time as 6'2 195 and krecji 6' 188.

Also the Red Wings took the Blackhawks to game 7 OT last year. They play in the city of Detroit.

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#27 Step Daddy J
April 02 2014, 05:26PM
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Sam Reinhart is not just an interesting prospect , he is much more ! I've been raving about Sam for the past 3 years ! This guy is a Talent ! Very Creative and A Goal Scorer ! I Don't Think Edmonton will take him , but I'd shure be happy if they did .

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#28 Naky
April 02 2014, 05:39PM
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@Manfly

Really? You want to wait and hope that he gets bigger? When will that be, can you tell us? We said these things about Eberle, we said these things about RNH, we're even still staying these things about Taylor Hall and while he's slowly been filling out how many years has it been now?

How many more years do you want to wait for Bennett and Reinhart to fill out and compete in a conference like ours filled to the brim with big, fast, and skilled teams that have their way with us? You got four more years of sucking in you? Five?

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#29 oilcountry
April 02 2014, 06:31PM
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I am all for Ekblad, but if he's not there and we pick at 2 it has to be BPA which would be Reinhardt in my books.

He has decent size,there are no thortons where were picking and to me drasaitl has way more risk.

Take Reinhart and start trading spare parts for what we need, besides it will be hilarious listening to the eastern media telling us how bad we are.

I am okay with winning 10-8 again worked out great in the 80's

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#30 Danoilerfanincalgary
April 02 2014, 06:38PM
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A few years ago there was a highly thought of prospect centerman who dropped in the draft to fourth overall because he was a little on the small size at a time when teams were looking for bigger players he was only 5'11" and 185 lbs. Anyone heard of Steve Yzerman I would hate for us to make the same mistake passing on a guy like him. I would be happy with any of the top 4.

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#31 yegCopywriter
April 02 2014, 07:02PM
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@Taylor Gang

One player can't reverse the fortunes of the team. It'll take a lot more from MacTavish than that.

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#32 james_dean
April 02 2014, 05:12PM
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Smurfs up

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#33 Oil fan?
April 02 2014, 07:03PM
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I watch every home game for the Kootenay Ice. I am a die hard oilers fan. We need defense. Having said that, passing on Sam Reinhart would be a huuuuuuge mistake. The kid has the most hockey IQ I have ever seen. Sam's the man!

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#34 The Last Big Bear
April 02 2014, 11:08PM
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When I think to myself "What do the Oilers really need to get to the next level?", the immediate answer is always "Another 18 year old scoring forward who's closest comparable is RNH."

I mean, every time I see this team, I think that the basic ingredients are right, they just need more of the same.

Forget trading the pick for a veteran first pairing defenceman. The Oilers wont be able to take the next step until they have more teenage toe-draggers.

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#35 pelhem grenville
April 03 2014, 04:50AM
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...all I care about is that we get a centre...someone else can wait for ekblad to develop...my biggest fear is that if it's gonna be another draft day like Monahan to Calgary ahead us? I'm gonna spit...

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#36 yegCopywriter
April 02 2014, 06:52PM
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@Taylor Gang

I read all the comments. No one said Reinhart would reverse the Oilers fortunes.

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#37 Mustangheart
April 02 2014, 08:11PM
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@Serious Gord

I have to agree 100%.

As much as I would like to see Ekblad or Reinhart in an Oilers uniform, I would trade the pick to say Nashville for Weber.

Nashville's new owners want to make $$ and to build a team, plus they need offense. Trade the 1st pick, plus Gagner, and Yak or who-ever if need be, "but get Weber".

Stick with Hall, Eberle, Shultz, Perron, RNH, Petry and of course the Professor, to build around.

We have enough D prospects in Oklahoma ready to join the Oilers if they have a good teacher to guide them.

Loose the assistant coaches for experienced NHL coaches. Eakins needs help in coaching and ,mentoring the players.

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#38 New Season New Hope
April 02 2014, 06:42PM
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If we don't draft Ekblad, it has to be Draisaitl for me. Even if Reinhart hasn't finished growing, he will likely top out at Hall's size. Then our biggest top 6 forward is either Reinhart or Hall. None of our top six currently match up to the size of the forwards in San Jose, Anaheim, LA, or St. Louis. We need some forwards that are over 200 lbs at 18 and still getting bigger. Draiaitl was the player of the month in the WHL in March which is part of the toughest part of the regular season and early playoffs. Sounds like the type of guy I want on the Oilers. No offense to Reinhart but we already got three players just like him.

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#39 The Crystal Ball
April 02 2014, 09:50PM
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Kevin wrote:

Go ask opposing players about Toews and Bergeron .

I'm sure they would say great players that prove you don't need to be 6'4 to be a great Center. Same coaches would say the same things about Forsberg, Datsuyk, Crosby, Etc......

I am just worried the Oilers take a guy cause he is 6'4 and don't take a guy with skill that plays very competitive hockey.

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#40 billythebullet
April 03 2014, 04:47AM
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nuge2nail wrote:

Oiler Domination To Follow

Hall Hopkins Eberle

Perron Reinhart Yakupov

Markhov Nikitin

Shultz Marincin

Ference Petry

Klefbom

What? Where the hell is shea weber in all this?

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#41 oilbaron
April 02 2014, 06:29PM
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I would draft the bigger German kid and than make trades to bolster our blue line with experienced players. We have a log jam of defensive prospects and no room for another in ekblad, even tho he may turn out to be a 1/2. Reinhart looks small to me, he's more of the same, we need different type of players and we need to start drafting upon need and not BPA.

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#42 CMG30
April 02 2014, 06:39PM
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Fortunately for Mactavish (or unfortunately?) the Oilers are likely to draft 2nd or 3rd and odds are Reinhart will be gone. This spares him from a no-win situation. Do you piss off half the fanbase by selecting the BPA, who happens to be 'small' or do you piss off the other half by passing on the BPA and select the bigger guy?... Or the stud defenseman...? Or do you trade the pick for established help...?

I think Mactavish's life becomes exponentially easier if they slide to 3rd and likely end up with Draisaitl by default.

But since the only winning the Oil do lately is the draft lottery, I guess I should throw in my 2 cents in that eventuality:

Take the BPA unless you don't see a clear front runner. In that case take the bigger, meaner guy. Be wary of taking defense in the top 5 from because they are more likely to flop and in the case of the Oilers will take too long to develop anyway. Only trade the pick if someone offers you the moon. So, all thing considered, I guess that means I'd be drafting Rienhart.

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#43 Taylor Gang
April 02 2014, 06:42PM
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I don't trust management enough to pull off the big trade that would inevitably follow if EDM picked Reinhart. Far, far too much skill, not enough of anything else. Do you fans seriously suggest Reinhart would reverse the Oilers' fortunes?

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#44 westcoastoil
April 02 2014, 07:09PM
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New Season New Hope wrote:

If we don't draft Ekblad, it has to be Draisaitl for me. Even if Reinhart hasn't finished growing, he will likely top out at Hall's size. Then our biggest top 6 forward is either Reinhart or Hall. None of our top six currently match up to the size of the forwards in San Jose, Anaheim, LA, or St. Louis. We need some forwards that are over 200 lbs at 18 and still getting bigger. Draiaitl was the player of the month in the WHL in March which is part of the toughest part of the regular season and early playoffs. Sounds like the type of guy I want on the Oilers. No offense to Reinhart but we already got three players just like him.

I know that this has been said in past draft posts, but one consideration when looking at Draisaitl is that he enjoys a size advantage against other players now that he will not have in the NHL. I know teams try to project size, which they can to some degree, but none of us knows what the size difference will be between these kids in 3 years - it may or may not be much of a factor. You'd hope the scouts look past size and go more to overall skill and who they think will be the best player down the road.

This might be one of those years where it's in the fans best interest if the Oilers pick 3rd and the decision is made for them.

Sigh....how great will it be when the draft starts to matter sometime in May/June.

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#45 hagargt
April 02 2014, 07:33PM
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Serious Gord wrote:

Trade the damn pick. This team needs help NOW not three to four years from now.

The management uses the draft as a distraction to bridge the end of season screams for bloody murder,to the over-hyped fight song that is the oilers every new season. If they didn't have their draft pick, we would have nothing to look forward to, and thus our attention would still be on firing lowe/others. It has worked for how many years now?

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#46 nuge2nail
April 02 2014, 08:59PM
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Oiler Domination To Follow

Hall Hopkins Eberle

Perron Reinhart Yakupov

Markhov Nikitin

Shultz Marincin

Ference Petry

Klefbom

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#47 The Last Big Bear
April 02 2014, 11:24PM
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admiralmark wrote:

I would not be the least bit upset with Reinhart, Draistl or Bennet as the Oilers pick this year. This team needs a 2C almost as much as D. I almost think more because of whats already in the pipeline.

For 2C options, who are upcoming UFAs, and 31 or younger, the list includes Paul Stastny, Steve Ott, Mikhail Grabovski, Derek Roy, etc.

How many first pairing defencemen under the age of 35 are available as UFAs? And I don't mean first pairing in Edmonton, I mean first pairing on their current team...

I disagree 100% that the Oilers, who have the single worst defence in the entire NHL, need a 2nd line centre more than they need defence. But even if they did, its much easier to acquire a 2nd line centre than it is to acquire an elite defenceman.

But in either case, the Oilers should not be looking to draft that player, the franchise can't afford to wait 5 more years to address their glaring needs.

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#48 Butters
April 02 2014, 07:36PM
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Taylor Gang wrote:

I'm just saying, if MacT was ballsy enough to trade one of the kids, he would have done it by now. Also, the reason teams pick BPA regardless of team need is because you can trade away the players you already have for pieces you need further down the road. MacT is no Peter Chiarelli.

You might be surprised. Apparently Yakupov isn't a good hockey player anymore. BS doesn't even mention his name when talking about the team's young core.

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#49 Zangetsu
April 03 2014, 08:46AM
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Mustangheart wrote:

I have to agree 100%.

As much as I would like to see Ekblad or Reinhart in an Oilers uniform, I would trade the pick to say Nashville for Weber.

Nashville's new owners want to make $$ and to build a team, plus they need offense. Trade the 1st pick, plus Gagner, and Yak or who-ever if need be, "but get Weber".

Stick with Hall, Eberle, Shultz, Perron, RNH, Petry and of course the Professor, to build around.

We have enough D prospects in Oklahoma ready to join the Oilers if they have a good teacher to guide them.

Loose the assistant coaches for experienced NHL coaches. Eakins needs help in coaching and ,mentoring the players.

I don't get the oilers fans hard on for weber. If we are going swoon over players, why not doughty, subban, karlson, petriangelo,ect. Weber is as unlikely to leave nashville in his prime as any of the others. Not to mention weber's timeline doesn't translate well to ours. We are still probably at least three years away. So then he is 31. Are we betting he is the rare kind who plays past 40, or do we want to lose a centrepiece on defence six years after we are competitive. If we are building with young guys, we have to do that. Sure we need vets to guide them, and most of them so far have been atrocious, but I'm not walking through the desert again in ten years. This has got to be a long lasting rebuild like detoit's.

Avatar
#50 Randaman
April 02 2014, 06:13PM
Trash it!
16
trashes
Cheers
9
cheers

If pedigree means anything then picking Reinhart is a no brainer. Centre over defence any day of the week in my opinion. What would it take to pry the pick from Florida? Eberle & Next years 2nd? Thoughts?

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